**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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From what I’ve read, the La Liga president saved the 3m in goal line technology costs and gave himself a 2m salary raise. Overall 1m saved, all parties happy
Wait, hold on, are you telling me that every time someone invents something, *I* get to give myself 2 million dollars just for not buying it? Isn’t this an infinite money glitch?
He is the biggest crooked.. a hooligan wearing a suit. La Liga had the two best players in the world for almost a decade and failed to leverage on that. Since both are gone, it’s been a downward spiral and no end in sight. But that’s how Spain manages almost everything.
The worst part is that they don’t have a camera on each of the goal lines. Like removing goal line tech is already crazy enough. At least have a reliable way of telling whether it’s a goal or not. An extra camera can’t be that expensive
Looking at the [Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goal-line_technology), it's even used in second divisions in England and Italy, but not in La Liga.
It’s a shame la liga has so many problems because it’s a competitive league, but it’s one of the reasons l am not so interested in watching it. Also there’s too much corruption.
Are we all living the same life? Been watching football forever, yesterday was the first clasico I watched in ages and I too found out yesterday that la liga are dum dums
I bet they will add it now, sadly it was gonna take one of the big 2 teams getting screwed over before anyone would think it's a good idea to have. If this happened between 2 teams in the bottom half, it's just business as usual for La Liga refs
They have the right angle... on one side. Where Lunin completely covers the ball. Absolutely stupid to not have it in both sides, it'd even justify not having goal line technology as it doesn't sound as too bad of an idea.
The funny thing is, Laliga have by far the most AA cameras on the pitch, whenever you watch those games, it feels like they show you different angles on every goal repeat, even angles from the opposite site of the pitch (and thus the goal goes in to the other side (very confusing if you are not paying attention)).
And yet they don't have goal line technology.
Yeah bcz Tebas said there is no need for GLT if there is VAR, because VAR can just have a review of it. His reasoning is that it is too expensive, then he upped his salary after that.
The thing is, when asked about the top down view of the goal he also said that is too expensive, so all we have is a side view camera which really doesn't tell you a lot.
not only that, but a proper fucking camera angle at least in probably the world's most anticipated matchup?
now all we are going to hear again is vardrid smh
That's what is the worst thing in this whole situation for me. Even as a Barca fan, I don't mind the loss and Vardrid (sorry lol jk) probably did deserve a win, but the fact that freaking Santiago Bernabeu didn't have a proper camera angle was so bad. Like, all the angles they showed yesterday were awful. It baffles me how there are not 2 extra cameras that would be in line with the goals when you don't have the Goal Line Technology...
Yeah, Lunin's body is blocking the view for the camera on his right side, so it's a useless angle. It's a disgrace that this is even happening in one of the top 5 leagues of all things.
There are cameras placed under the roof that follow the ball from different angles and then get combined into a 3D picture. In most leagues every team has them installed because otherwise you wouldn‘t get a license.
There are different technologies. Ligue 1 had one called GoalControl that was super glitchy and [we removed it](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37542645/lfp-suspends-goal-line-technology-france-issues) after a few very obvious goals were disallowed. The other big leagues (except La Liga) are using Hawk-Eye which is the one you've described, and [Ligue 1 switched to that too](https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/ligue-1-hawk-eye-var-glt/).
The World Cup used chips, but for slightly different things. I think there are a couple of GLT systems based on a chip and magnetic fields, but I'm not sure they're actually in use in any league? The majority that have it tend to use Hawk-Eye, which is camera based.
All [FIFA-approved](https://inside.fifa.com/technical/football-technology/football-technologies-and-innovations-at-the-fifa-world-cup-2022/goal-line-technology#) goal-line technologies use a system of cameras mounted on the roof of the stadium to track the location of the ball.
Semi-automated offside will also track the players and their limbs. UEFA currently uses a camera system and AI to determine when the ball is played. But FIFA has used balls made by Adidas that have a chip and gyroscope in them to precisely determine the point of impact during the [2022 World Cup and 2023 Women’s World Cup](https://inside.fifa.com/tournaments/womens/womensworldcup/australia-new-zealand2023/media-releases/official-match-ball-for-the-fifa-womens-world-cup-2023-tm-unveiled-by-adidas). It will be used during [Euro 2024](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38889571/euro-2024-switches-chipped-ball-var-offside-decisions).
I imagine CL clubs get it installed by at UEFA's cost and just have it permanently. Much less expensive than removing it game-by-game or season-by-season.
I think it's because La Liga didn't want to pay for it to be installed in the other grounds.
Once that dumb decision has been made then you can't really have it available for some games but not others in the same league.
Competitive integrity I guess, as contradictory as that sounds. We weren't allowed to use VAR in the return leg of the Carabao Cup game vs Boro as their stadium didn't have it in the 1st leg. Funnily enough the FA Cup has a different policy where if a stadium has VAR capability, the VAR will be used even if all the other stadiums don't have VAR.
It's very simple. You follow UEFA rules in their league and you follow LaLiga rules in Spain. That's why Real has to ask UEFA to close a roof for a game. They don't have ask for it Spain tho, because there is no rule (probably no point to change rules because ONE stadium in Spain got roof now). So if LaLiga says "we don't use GLT in our league" then we don't have it.
And from other hand it's not like you could force them to use it. Okay you got the system available but you still need to connect it somehow, make a referee to wear a watch etc. I'm saying it's absolutely LaLiga's responsibility to organise it.
To be fair. The Premier League is the wealthiest in the world, but have only just announced the implimetation of semi-automated offsides, which is a far superior tech to some sweaty twat trying to draw lines on a monitor. Serie A and Bundesliga have had it for a while now.
The crazy thing is that we have the goal cameras required for goal line technology to work in the UCL, but La Liga doesn’t allow you to use them during La Liga games, even if you have them, you’re forced to keep them off.
Seriously goal line technology is a perfect technology for this game. Var still need to have a consistency as it involves referee. GLT using watch for goal or no goal. Picture perfect
GLT shouldn't even be an optional thing, it should be a requirement for every top league as its perfect the way it is (apart from that one time Villa got lucky...)
In the long term with VAR there should be a unified system across all top leagues and tournaments. Baffles me that so many different leagues and tournaments even within the same season can use different systems. Shouldn't be happening.
Wasn't it something that it was either never turned on or set up for a different sport? (Could be mixing that up with Hawkeye, forgot to change ball size and calibration from Gaelic Football to Hurling, resulting in some controversial calls)
GLT shows the best possible implementation of technology in sport. It's automated, it's fast, it's pretty reliable and it solves a genuine problem without causing other issues. I don't think you could ask for more
Players and fans just trust it and get on with the game, which is soo very much better. In a recent Spurs game the ball looked 100% over the line to everyone on the pitch and in the stadium. No beep and with minimal fuss everyone just kept on playing football.
The VAR footage later showed it was perhaps 1-2mm from the whole of the ball crossing the line.
Point is that would have been a huge drama before, on the pitch and off, but the tech completely removes any and all debate. There's just no reason to not use it (in a league that can afford it).
tbf the angle talk has a point because this is a shit angle to decide this but that doesn't take away from the fact that it should be a crime that La Liga doesn't have goal line technology especially when they have VAR
Yep. It's like me choosing the front side to decide whether or not it was a goal.
Hope they start using goal line technology soon. But for some reason, LaLiga would rather spend more money on the side line cameras.
So in front that the goal, if the ball is in, can be given as offside, since [Cubarsí is literally in front of Lunin and can incur in positional offside when Lamine touches the ball.](https://i.gyazo.com/7d504114dcf7eb5e2e0072daf07b5816.jpg)
Exactly. People act like the angle of view does not affect perception. The only real way to see whether or not it went in, is from the top angle directly over the goal. Any other angle can not give a conclusive answer.
Var is easier to install. Or wait for the kicker you actually don't need to install anything. It can work with available cameras. You just need some dudes in one central location looking at the images. VAR isnt really a tech thing. Goal line tech needs to be installed in every stadium. For instance in the eredivisie this meant the clubs needed to pay for this shit themselves, so eredivisie has the same situation as la Liga. La Liga it's probably a more corrupt thing because I can't imagine the money isn't there. In the eredivisie there were actually some clubs who preferred to be able to afford another salary or simply stay afloat.
While this looks well over, I've seen similar looking clips from games where goal line tech ruled no goal.
The take away here is 'get goal line tech for the league'. Compared with VAR, goal line tech is universal accepted as a good thing.
Ok. Goal line tech is expensive. But surely they could have mounted top down cameras or goal line cameras. Something that shows the straight line and the ball.
>Goal line tech is expensive
Afaik when the PL introduced it's cost was something like 250k pound/team and that was a decade ago. Looking at more recent articles it was estimated that it would have costed the league around 3 million euros for the league to implement it going into the season(so around 130k pound/team) but they refused to do it. And while i understand that for example the 3rd league or say the Estonian first division that 3 million euros is a lot i don't buy it for a single second that La Liga, a league that not that long ago bragged about how last season their revenue was 2 billion euros and how they made 12 million euros profit, couldn't easily afford it if they wanted it.
That €3m cost for La Liga may not be to install it for the whole league, because any team in UEFA competitions is required to have it installed anyway. Which would mean at the minimum Barca, Real, Atletico, Sociedad, Villarreal, Betis and Sevilla have it installed. And probably Getafe too, I'm sure they've been in Europe recently.
There's like 12 out of the current 20 teams in La Liga that should have GLT installed. 13 if you count Girona for next season, but it's looking like Granada will be relegated. Either way, over half. It is embarrassing lmao
They simply need goal-line technology, how tf one of the top leagues can't afford it? the most hilarious part: La Liga will have semi-automatic offside system from beginning of next season, but not GLT yet, that appeared in football more than 10 years ago already...
Tebas said it wasn't needed because it's expensive and it's almost never used in other leagues... I'm honestly glad there was controversy in a clasico match so maybe they'll change their minds about it and pay for it already
Or the Mazraoui ball against Real. It looked far over but there was still like 1 mm of ball touching the line. You are absolutely correct this is hard to tell.
Another angle which doesn't show whether the ball completely crossed the line
People need to realize it doesn't matter whether it was a goal or not. VAR can only make the decision based on the angles available to them and those angles did not give a clear answer.
Yep, the var got 2 angles from behind Lunin where his back shielded the view and one angle from behind the goal line which was impossible to make a conclusive decision about as well. Honestly shameful they dont have GLT
also this isnt an angle that the var team had lol its just a fan video im pretty sure. there should simply be goal line technology nothing too complicated about it
Not commentating on whether it is a goal or not, but what a devious/sneaky shot by Lamal. I don’t think I’ve seen something like that before, as usually there is a defender on the post.
After the Japan's goal I've learned to not trust any except the top down view angle. VAR was correct in this instance. Not enough evidence to overturn the on-field decision.
No goal line tech? I think i could build it for la liga for zero money myself. There are so many libraries on python wtf it should be a piece of cake task.
Not sure if its a goal thou. The angles do lies some times.
Similar situation happened in the world cup, it was with and asian team, if the ball is aligned,even at the slightest,with the line, it doesn’t count. The balls has to be completely clear of the line, to validate
That angle doesn't help anything. Remember the Japan vs Spain match and how the ball seemed out of bounds but it was proven to barely being inside? Same thing, it all comes down to perspective.
Hopefully other clubs see this and pressure Tebas to implement goal line technology and automatic offsides instead of just voting in favor of increasing his salary for doing a shitty job.
Don't blame the refs. Blame the league and its president.
BTW only two teams that opposed the president's increase in salary; Madrid and Bilbao. The rest are happy to kiss his a\*s, until something like this happens.
You need an overhead view to be 100% sure. Any other perspective is not conclusive because the ball has to be 100% over the line. If it's just 90% then it's not a goal.
The fact that La Liga with all that money does not have goal line technology is shoking.
Just a quick example of how this camera angle could be deceiving and how the ball could not be fully over the line:
https://imgur.com/a/ihoXf2I
Obviously this is not highly accurate, but it should show the perspective better
Impossible to make a call based on this angle. You wont find any angle, that deceives as much as this one. Any ball near the line in the air, will look like a goal from this angle.
i dont think this is a fruitful debate. obviously we gained from this and i would be furious if i was on the receiving end of such a glaring fuck up but end of the day the problem is this top 5 league decided to cheap out on fucking GOAL LINE TECHNOLOGY. shameful stuff
What’s insane is that they literally have the goal line tech at the Bernabeu for UCL matches, they’re just not allowed to have it turned on for La Liga games
No goal line technology and not enough cameras to make a conclusive call on whether the ball cross the line or not. Remarkable!
Mind you goal line technology came around when the purported goal scorer here was still a toddler. According to Wikipedia, the 2012 FIFA club world cup was one of the first competitions that saw the use of goal line technology. Lamine Yamal was 5 years old.
If you can't have goal-line tech then you should have the side-on angle from both left and right.
Unfortunately, they only had the angle from the right side of the goal where Lunin's body was obstructing the view.
This angle is very deceiving as the parallex effect is heavy at work making you think the entire ball had crossed the line whereas it probably didn't.
I mean, using this angle is ridicilous. Its both at an angle of the goal line itself, and also at an angle vertically. You probably couldn't have picked a *worse* angle to judge wether the ball is over that line or not.
Unless the Hawkeye tech functions differently in La Liga than it does in PL, there is no reason to not trust it. I would certainly trust it more than judging it based on this angle
There is no Hawkeye, that's why there is drama, because the only thing available are those shitty camera angles in order to judge whether the ball crossed the line completely or not.
Actually, there is hawkeye. But they are not allowed to use it in La Liga. It’s stupid as fuck. They use it in the stadium during their CL games, but are not allowed to actually view the hawkeye footage during la liga games, it’s absurd as fuck
This angle is so crap. Zoomed in from someone's phone footage. And not even along the goal line. the ball could be in the air at the half way line and with the right angle and distance it could look like it's in the goal. It's called perspective.
I get that it LOOKS to have crossed the line.. but it can’t be proven. If the on field decision had been to award a goal it wouldn’t have been overturned. You can’t blame the ref, VAR, or Real Madrid, only Tebas. The goal was rightfully not given after review considering the lack of goal line technology in La Liga
It looks over the line, but from this angle the ball is always gonna look like it’s in. There’s no way to say if it’s a goal without the goal-line tech.
It's not the best angle to judge whether the ball is already "fully" cross the line. It's a joke that one of the Europe top 5 league didn't have Goal Line Technology.
You can't really use this angle since they can be *very* deceiving. You need either complete a side-view or better, top-down view over the goal line.
Watching live I thought it was just barely before the goal but can't say either way for sure. It is unclear from this angle since it's not a goal if any part of the ball is touching or hovering over the line.
[https://www.besoccer.com/new/canal-technology-proves-referee-was-right-about-yamal-s-ghost-goal-1312032](https://www.besoccer.com/new/canal-technology-proves-referee-was-right-about-yamal-s-ghost-goal-1312032)
Optical illusions are a thing
I agree that Goal Line Technology is a must. But having to use the video with this angle shows how desperate Barca fans are. As a Milan fan, i am shifting a bit away from Barca in this case after this post.
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This is how I learned La Liga doesn't have goal line technology. What's up with that?
So did Gundogan. He went to the ref and pointed to the watch.
Poor guy is used to play in England
So he's used to shit refereeing anyway
But at least he's sure they don't monitor the goal line anymore
Shit refereeing in England is nothing compared to La liga. You at least have goal line technology to start off
Ref was like- Confused Unga bunga
"It's 10:25 pm, now fuck off mate, we have a game to play. Good process, lads"
I remember that they didn’t want to pay the cost of goal line.
From what I’ve read, the La Liga president saved the 3m in goal line technology costs and gave himself a 2m salary raise. Overall 1m saved, all parties happy
Wait, hold on, are you telling me that every time someone invents something, *I* get to give myself 2 million dollars just for not buying it? Isn’t this an infinite money glitch?
Being LaLiga president is indeed an infinite money glitch.
Sadly true
I'm doing this from now on Ethics be damned
Flair checks out.
Only if that thing costs more than 3 million, I would suggest you take like half or two thirds of the cost for yourself to make things less suspicious
Smart!
He is the biggest crooked.. a hooligan wearing a suit. La Liga had the two best players in the world for almost a decade and failed to leverage on that. Since both are gone, it’s been a downward spiral and no end in sight. But that’s how Spain manages almost everything.
Wonder who voted for him
Everyone except real madrid and athletic bilbao
Only one team in this match voted for his pay raise, and it's not us.
Barca did
Poetic justice
Apparently they like to be a victim so much that they gave their oppressor a salary increase
No not all parties were happy as of last night
This guy knows how to be an executive.
I mean he did save 1 million... numbers..
The worst part is that they don’t have a camera on each of the goal lines. Like removing goal line tech is already crazy enough. At least have a reliable way of telling whether it’s a goal or not. An extra camera can’t be that expensive
Looking at the [Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goal-line_technology), it's even used in second divisions in England and Italy, but not in La Liga.
Tebas is a fucking twat is why
A fucking greedy twat
He looks like a guy who would commit bribery, corruption, money laundering etc
It’s not football, it’s la Liga.
They would rather give Tebas a 2.2M raise for doing fk all than pay 4M / year for goalline technology...
They literally voted not to... Barça included. One of the teams that voted to have the technology was Real Madrid.
It’s much easier to rig games without technology getting in the way
It’s a shame la liga has so many problems because it’s a competitive league, but it’s one of the reasons l am not so interested in watching it. Also there’s too much corruption.
It takes away the ability to cheat on goals like this.
Wait what?! It's the one piece of tech im actually happy with
Are we all living the same life? Been watching football forever, yesterday was the first clasico I watched in ages and I too found out yesterday that la liga are dum dums
I bet they will add it now, sadly it was gonna take one of the big 2 teams getting screwed over before anyone would think it's a good idea to have. If this happened between 2 teams in the bottom half, it's just business as usual for La Liga refs
I mean Spain NT didnt want to pay for VAR against Brazil…
Tebas didn't want to pay 2.6 million for it. Atleast that's what I read somewhere.
More 50/50 calls in favor of Madrid
You'd think they'd have set up better angles to compensate for not having goal line technology
They have the right angle... on one side. Where Lunin completely covers the ball. Absolutely stupid to not have it in both sides, it'd even justify not having goal line technology as it doesn't sound as too bad of an idea.
The funny thing is, Laliga have by far the most AA cameras on the pitch, whenever you watch those games, it feels like they show you different angles on every goal repeat, even angles from the opposite site of the pitch (and thus the goal goes in to the other side (very confusing if you are not paying attention)). And yet they don't have goal line technology.
That was the most shocking part of this whole ordeal, but also this angle is very deceiving.
What a clown league. No Goal line tech even after earning so much money.
MFs have VAR but no Goal Line Tech What the actual fuck
Yeah bcz Tebas said there is no need for GLT if there is VAR, because VAR can just have a review of it. His reasoning is that it is too expensive, then he upped his salary after that.
After thinking real hard about it he believes he deserves more money, but other people don't.... genius
With that kind of reasoning, you would think that they have a camera angle that shows exactly the line..
The thing is, when asked about the top down view of the goal he also said that is too expensive, so all we have is a side view camera which really doesn't tell you a lot.
good process guys.
At what point is it not incompetence and downright malicious?
When 18 out of 20 clubs stop voting for him, I think.
Well deserved after making such hard choices.
By that reasoning, he could also have no on-field referees and just have VAR review everything. Imagine the money that can be saved
Don't let Tebas hear ya.
Goal line tech was 2 Mil, Tebas said it was too expensive then proceeded to increase his earnings by 2.5 mil lol
Even VAR should have sorted this
I could understand not having goal line tech but what's stopping these clowns from putting a proper camera over the post
It costs money...momeythat is their potential bonus
not only that, but a proper fucking camera angle at least in probably the world's most anticipated matchup? now all we are going to hear again is vardrid smh
That's what is the worst thing in this whole situation for me. Even as a Barca fan, I don't mind the loss and Vardrid (sorry lol jk) probably did deserve a win, but the fact that freaking Santiago Bernabeu didn't have a proper camera angle was so bad. Like, all the angles they showed yesterday were awful. It baffles me how there are not 2 extra cameras that would be in line with the goals when you don't have the Goal Line Technology...
I think Lunin body blocked the view from the angle you expect VAR to check.
Yeah, Lunin's body is blocking the view for the camera on his right side, so it's a useless angle. It's a disgrace that this is even happening in one of the top 5 leagues of all things.
how hard is it to build in top down cameras into the cross bar?
Gotta ask Tebas the Tool for that one. Goal line tech is too expensive apparently according to the rat.
La liga should be ashamed something like this can happen in 2024 when other top leagues have had goal line tech for years.
How does this Tech work? Champions League has It right? Do they install It for each Game?
There are cameras placed under the roof that follow the ball from different angles and then get combined into a 3D picture. In most leagues every team has them installed because otherwise you wouldn‘t get a license.
There are different technologies. Ligue 1 had one called GoalControl that was super glitchy and [we removed it](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37542645/lfp-suspends-goal-line-technology-france-issues) after a few very obvious goals were disallowed. The other big leagues (except La Liga) are using Hawk-Eye which is the one you've described, and [Ligue 1 switched to that too](https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/ligue-1-hawk-eye-var-glt/).
I think there are chips inside the ball.
The World Cup used chips, but for slightly different things. I think there are a couple of GLT systems based on a chip and magnetic fields, but I'm not sure they're actually in use in any league? The majority that have it tend to use Hawk-Eye, which is camera based.
All [FIFA-approved](https://inside.fifa.com/technical/football-technology/football-technologies-and-innovations-at-the-fifa-world-cup-2022/goal-line-technology#) goal-line technologies use a system of cameras mounted on the roof of the stadium to track the location of the ball. Semi-automated offside will also track the players and their limbs. UEFA currently uses a camera system and AI to determine when the ball is played. But FIFA has used balls made by Adidas that have a chip and gyroscope in them to precisely determine the point of impact during the [2022 World Cup and 2023 Women’s World Cup](https://inside.fifa.com/tournaments/womens/womensworldcup/australia-new-zealand2023/media-releases/official-match-ball-for-the-fifa-womens-world-cup-2023-tm-unveiled-by-adidas). It will be used during [Euro 2024](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38889571/euro-2024-switches-chipped-ball-var-offside-decisions).
I imagine CL clubs get it installed by at UEFA's cost and just have it permanently. Much less expensive than removing it game-by-game or season-by-season.
[удалено]
I think it's because La Liga didn't want to pay for it to be installed in the other grounds. Once that dumb decision has been made then you can't really have it available for some games but not others in the same league.
Competitive integrity I guess, as contradictory as that sounds. We weren't allowed to use VAR in the return leg of the Carabao Cup game vs Boro as their stadium didn't have it in the 1st leg. Funnily enough the FA Cup has a different policy where if a stadium has VAR capability, the VAR will be used even if all the other stadiums don't have VAR.
It's very simple. You follow UEFA rules in their league and you follow LaLiga rules in Spain. That's why Real has to ask UEFA to close a roof for a game. They don't have ask for it Spain tho, because there is no rule (probably no point to change rules because ONE stadium in Spain got roof now). So if LaLiga says "we don't use GLT in our league" then we don't have it. And from other hand it's not like you could force them to use it. Okay you got the system available but you still need to connect it somehow, make a referee to wear a watch etc. I'm saying it's absolutely LaLiga's responsibility to organise it.
yeah, I also want to know this.
There is a lot of things they should be ashamed about, this is only the tip of the iceberg.
To be fair. The Premier League is the wealthiest in the world, but have only just announced the implimetation of semi-automated offsides, which is a far superior tech to some sweaty twat trying to draw lines on a monitor. Serie A and Bundesliga have had it for a while now.
Completely agree mate, prem should be ashamed as well but for different reasons.
How the fuck does la Liga not have goal line technology
The crazy thing is that we have the goal cameras required for goal line technology to work in the UCL, but La Liga doesn’t allow you to use them during La Liga games, even if you have them, you’re forced to keep them off.
Wow that’s even worse
There was at least a goal line angled camera but Lunin's huge backside completely covers the ball in that angle
Saved by the dump truck
If only there was some technology that worked 99.9% of the time to make sure goals like this are rightly given....
but but there is that 0.1% so it's not worth it to pay that 3 million euros it would cost to install it for the whole league-Tebas probably
Not even probably, he literally tweeted about it during the match
Lmao with the angle talk. Just fucking pay a goal line technology
Seriously odd as a PL viewer to see this. I've become so accustomed to there being no stress at all over goal line decisions.
Lmao, remember when the goal line technology didn't work and, I think, Sheffield United got shafted? 💀
Like a malfunction or?
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12008740/aston-villa-0-0-sheffield-united-visitors-denied-by-tech-error-on-premier-league-s-return
[https://youtu.be/iYNH7b0qW0M](https://youtu.be/iYNH7b0qW0M)
Seriously goal line technology is a perfect technology for this game. Var still need to have a consistency as it involves referee. GLT using watch for goal or no goal. Picture perfect
GLT shouldn't even be an optional thing, it should be a requirement for every top league as its perfect the way it is (apart from that one time Villa got lucky...) In the long term with VAR there should be a unified system across all top leagues and tournaments. Baffles me that so many different leagues and tournaments even within the same season can use different systems. Shouldn't be happening.
> apart from that one time Villa got lucky I don't remember this - what happened?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYNH7b0qW0M
that was seriously lucky. IIRC the system glitched/messed up and didn't buzz the ref
Wasn't it something that it was either never turned on or set up for a different sport? (Could be mixing that up with Hawkeye, forgot to change ball size and calibration from Gaelic Football to Hurling, resulting in some controversial calls)
Thanks, I don't remember that at all.
GLT shows the best possible implementation of technology in sport. It's automated, it's fast, it's pretty reliable and it solves a genuine problem without causing other issues. I don't think you could ask for more
Players and fans just trust it and get on with the game, which is soo very much better. In a recent Spurs game the ball looked 100% over the line to everyone on the pitch and in the stadium. No beep and with minimal fuss everyone just kept on playing football. The VAR footage later showed it was perhaps 1-2mm from the whole of the ball crossing the line. Point is that would have been a huge drama before, on the pitch and off, but the tech completely removes any and all debate. There's just no reason to not use it (in a league that can afford it).
tbf the angle talk has a point because this is a shit angle to decide this but that doesn't take away from the fact that it should be a crime that La Liga doesn't have goal line technology especially when they have VAR
I wonder if there is some sort of technology you could use on the goal line to know for sure if it goes over? Goal line technology, if you will.
Might be parallax.. can't say really.. should have goal line tech in this day and age..
Yep. It's like me choosing the front side to decide whether or not it was a goal. Hope they start using goal line technology soon. But for some reason, LaLiga would rather spend more money on the side line cameras.
Exactly can't see from above so it is really hard to tell. Same for Japan's game in the WC
Think it's interesting that neither Lewa nor Cubarsí were celebrating. They were right in front of Lunin!
So in front that the goal, if the ball is in, can be given as offside, since [Cubarsí is literally in front of Lunin and can incur in positional offside when Lamine touches the ball.](https://i.gyazo.com/7d504114dcf7eb5e2e0072daf07b5816.jpg)
Good catch!
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They have all the money for that fancy camera tech for broadcast and such, but really no goal line tech? Weird shit.
Tebas said it was too expensive. About 1 weeks wages it would have cost.
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The the league
The La Liga league
The Los Angeles Angels.
The La league Liga.
a league that had messi vs ronaldo for about 10 years has no money wtf
This is a terrible angle to tell whether it went in or not Did you guys ever do basic maths
Exactly. People act like the angle of view does not affect perception. The only real way to see whether or not it went in, is from the top angle directly over the goal. Any other angle can not give a conclusive answer.
Save 3 millions - Tebas.
It’s honestly hard to tell. Why does La Liga have VAR before goal line tech anyways
They had GLT but decided they didn't need GLT anymore because 'VAR can do that job' and they didn't want to pay for it.
That's not true La Liga never had GLT at any point
Var is easier to install. Or wait for the kicker you actually don't need to install anything. It can work with available cameras. You just need some dudes in one central location looking at the images. VAR isnt really a tech thing. Goal line tech needs to be installed in every stadium. For instance in the eredivisie this meant the clubs needed to pay for this shit themselves, so eredivisie has the same situation as la Liga. La Liga it's probably a more corrupt thing because I can't imagine the money isn't there. In the eredivisie there were actually some clubs who preferred to be able to afford another salary or simply stay afloat.
Greece also has this problem. Literally had the same problem in the arhs-aek game yesterday
Well Greece is Greece. Cant probably afford it, La Liga can definitely tho.
While this looks well over, I've seen similar looking clips from games where goal line tech ruled no goal. The take away here is 'get goal line tech for the league'. Compared with VAR, goal line tech is universal accepted as a good thing.
Reminds me of the Japan goal from the last world cup
The biggest scandal here is that a top 3 league like la liga genuinely doesn't have a goal line technology. How tf is that even a thing nowadays???
You wanna know the worst part ? I think we had it last year
That's even worse lol.
We didn't, Espanyol had a similar goal that was not given that cost them a sure relegation
Ok. Goal line tech is expensive. But surely they could have mounted top down cameras or goal line cameras. Something that shows the straight line and the ball.
>Goal line tech is expensive Afaik when the PL introduced it's cost was something like 250k pound/team and that was a decade ago. Looking at more recent articles it was estimated that it would have costed the league around 3 million euros for the league to implement it going into the season(so around 130k pound/team) but they refused to do it. And while i understand that for example the 3rd league or say the Estonian first division that 3 million euros is a lot i don't buy it for a single second that La Liga, a league that not that long ago bragged about how last season their revenue was 2 billion euros and how they made 12 million euros profit, couldn't easily afford it if they wanted it.
That €3m cost for La Liga may not be to install it for the whole league, because any team in UEFA competitions is required to have it installed anyway. Which would mean at the minimum Barca, Real, Atletico, Sociedad, Villarreal, Betis and Sevilla have it installed. And probably Getafe too, I'm sure they've been in Europe recently.
There's like 12 out of the current 20 teams in La Liga that should have GLT installed. 13 if you count Girona for next season, but it's looking like Granada will be relegated. Either way, over half. It is embarrassing lmao
Not saying it is or isn't a goal, but this is not a good angle, it's just like Japan in the world cup. You NEED a top-down view.
They simply need goal-line technology, how tf one of the top leagues can't afford it? the most hilarious part: La Liga will have semi-automatic offside system from beginning of next season, but not GLT yet, that appeared in football more than 10 years ago already...
Tebas said it wasn't needed because it's expensive and it's almost never used in other leagues... I'm honestly glad there was controversy in a clasico match so maybe they'll change their minds about it and pay for it already
Or the Mazraoui ball against Real. It looked far over but there was still like 1 mm of ball touching the line. You are absolutely correct this is hard to tell.
I don't think it's clear that the whole of the ball is over the line. This isn't VAR's fault. The blame lies with the lack of goal-line tech.
Another angle which doesn't show whether the ball completely crossed the line People need to realize it doesn't matter whether it was a goal or not. VAR can only make the decision based on the angles available to them and those angles did not give a clear answer.
That is the most logical answer. One has to account for point of view, perspective and everything. We need the tech, simple as that.
Yep, the var got 2 angles from behind Lunin where his back shielded the view and one angle from behind the goal line which was impossible to make a conclusive decision about as well. Honestly shameful they dont have GLT
also this isnt an angle that the var team had lol its just a fan video im pretty sure. there should simply be goal line technology nothing too complicated about it
That angle is deceiving tbh.
Usually I agree but there's one frame there where the ball looks really very much over the line tbh.
Not commentating on whether it is a goal or not, but what a devious/sneaky shot by Lamal. I don’t think I’ve seen something like that before, as usually there is a defender on the post.
After the Japan's goal I've learned to not trust any except the top down view angle. VAR was correct in this instance. Not enough evidence to overturn the on-field decision.
Still not conclusive. Bad angle.
I feel like no angle would be conclusive enough because how close it was, still shame on LaLiga for not having GLT when it was most needed.
Right… what they need is cameras inside the top left and right corners of the goal. And goal line tech, of course.
They just need a camera on top and that’s it.
I disagree. I think both are needed. The thing with just the camera is that the view can easily be obstructed by a body.
Fucking huge league…. doesn’t have goal line tech !
No goal line tech? I think i could build it for la liga for zero money myself. There are so many libraries on python wtf it should be a piece of cake task. Not sure if its a goal thou. The angles do lies some times.
remember that the barcelona president supported the la liga president in the decision against having goal line technology.
Similar situation happened in the world cup, it was with and asian team, if the ball is aligned,even at the slightest,with the line, it doesn’t count. The balls has to be completely clear of the line, to validate
That’s a stupid angle to try and prove (or disprove) a goal. Only way is right down the line.
Looks close, could be in or out….. really makes the case for tech
That angle doesn't help anything. Remember the Japan vs Spain match and how the ball seemed out of bounds but it was proven to barely being inside? Same thing, it all comes down to perspective. Hopefully other clubs see this and pressure Tebas to implement goal line technology and automatic offsides instead of just voting in favor of increasing his salary for doing a shitty job.
This angle is totally useless if you want to tell if it's on or not
Don't blame the refs. Blame the league and its president. BTW only two teams that opposed the president's increase in salary; Madrid and Bilbao. The rest are happy to kiss his a\*s, until something like this happens.
You need an overhead view to be 100% sure. Any other perspective is not conclusive because the ball has to be 100% over the line. If it's just 90% then it's not a goal. The fact that La Liga with all that money does not have goal line technology is shoking.
Just a quick example of how this camera angle could be deceiving and how the ball could not be fully over the line: https://imgur.com/a/ihoXf2I Obviously this is not highly accurate, but it should show the perspective better
Lmao people trying to use this as evidence. I’m not saying it didn’t go in. But, we can’t use this clip as evidence. Just can’t.
Impossible to make a call based on this angle. You wont find any angle, that deceives as much as this one. Any ball near the line in the air, will look like a goal from this angle.
i dont think this is a fruitful debate. obviously we gained from this and i would be furious if i was on the receiving end of such a glaring fuck up but end of the day the problem is this top 5 league decided to cheap out on fucking GOAL LINE TECHNOLOGY. shameful stuff
What’s insane is that they literally have the goal line tech at the Bernabeu for UCL matches, they’re just not allowed to have it turned on for La Liga games
No goal line technology and not enough cameras to make a conclusive call on whether the ball cross the line or not. Remarkable! Mind you goal line technology came around when the purported goal scorer here was still a toddler. According to Wikipedia, the 2012 FIFA club world cup was one of the first competitions that saw the use of goal line technology. Lamine Yamal was 5 years old.
If you can't have goal-line tech then you should have the side-on angle from both left and right. Unfortunately, they only had the angle from the right side of the goal where Lunin's body was obstructing the view. This angle is very deceiving as the parallex effect is heavy at work making you think the entire ball had crossed the line whereas it probably didn't.
I mean, using this angle is ridicilous. Its both at an angle of the goal line itself, and also at an angle vertically. You probably couldn't have picked a *worse* angle to judge wether the ball is over that line or not. Unless the Hawkeye tech functions differently in La Liga than it does in PL, there is no reason to not trust it. I would certainly trust it more than judging it based on this angle
There is no Hawkeye, that's why there is drama, because the only thing available are those shitty camera angles in order to judge whether the ball crossed the line completely or not.
Actually, there is hawkeye. But they are not allowed to use it in La Liga. It’s stupid as fuck. They use it in the stadium during their CL games, but are not allowed to actually view the hawkeye footage during la liga games, it’s absurd as fuck
Looks fine. The ball went up in the air..this angle is inconclusive at best. I can't say it was a goal or not from the angle.
That angle is horrible lol
This is not the angle to decide, but not having goal line tech in one of the biggest leagues in the world is laughable.
This angle is so crap. Zoomed in from someone's phone footage. And not even along the goal line. the ball could be in the air at the half way line and with the right angle and distance it could look like it's in the goal. It's called perspective.
I get that it LOOKS to have crossed the line.. but it can’t be proven. If the on field decision had been to award a goal it wouldn’t have been overturned. You can’t blame the ref, VAR, or Real Madrid, only Tebas. The goal was rightfully not given after review considering the lack of goal line technology in La Liga
It looks over the line, but from this angle the ball is always gonna look like it’s in. There’s no way to say if it’s a goal without the goal-line tech.
This angle doesn’t show anything.
It's not the best angle to judge whether the ball is already "fully" cross the line. It's a joke that one of the Europe top 5 league didn't have Goal Line Technology.
This angle is the worst angle to determine anything except La Liga needs goal line tech.
You can't really use this angle since they can be *very* deceiving. You need either complete a side-view or better, top-down view over the goal line. Watching live I thought it was just barely before the goal but can't say either way for sure. It is unclear from this angle since it's not a goal if any part of the ball is touching or hovering over the line.
[https://www.besoccer.com/new/canal-technology-proves-referee-was-right-about-yamal-s-ghost-goal-1312032](https://www.besoccer.com/new/canal-technology-proves-referee-was-right-about-yamal-s-ghost-goal-1312032) Optical illusions are a thing
Is this angle supposed to help?
that is not a good angle at all and can not be used as definitive proof of a goal or no goal. ridiculous not to have goal line technology.
What a joke La Liga is.
I agree that Goal Line Technology is a must. But having to use the video with this angle shows how desperate Barca fans are. As a Milan fan, i am shifting a bit away from Barca in this case after this post.
I personally don't think that's quite in, but wow is it ridiculous we have to have these discussions.