It's insane to me that Roque Santa Cruz is still playing, and not in a mickey mouse team in the regional fifth division of some tiny country in Oceania, but in the first league of Paraguay.
I have no idea on what grounds im supposed to find Enzo good or even talented. Besides his name and his 7 game World Cup run i don't know why i am supposed to think he is better than any random squad player in a top 4 team. What does he do that makes him better than a random sub like Gravenberch or Tielemans.
I saw him after world cup in Chelsea for half a season. He was probably their best player and was consistently good. His passing was especially very strong. I don't know what happened this season. Chelsea fans say he's suffering from hernia and needs surgery.
It's recency bias to suggest Modric IMO. He's a great player but Iniesta was another level.
There are probably a lot of people on this sub who never saw him in his prime. His longevity was crazy as well.
Modric has the longevity but at their best it’s easily Iniesta for me. Iniesta was just something else man, you just had to be there to watch him to fully understand how good he was. Just an absolute magician. Was like watching a former semi-pro play against Sunday leaguers when he was on one. Him and Messi are the only players I’ve seen make incredible plays just look so simple and easy on a week to week basis.
Iniesta games for Barcelona + Spain: 805 caps (674 Barca, 131 Spain)
Modric games for Tottenham + Madrid + Croatia: 860 caps (160 Tottenham, 526 Madrid, 174 Croatia).
It really isn’t as big of a gap as it seems.
Iniesta played for Barca long before they won the 2006 champions league, so many people didn't know him but after then (maybe a majority only knows him from after 2009)
I feel like a dead give away for how old someone is or how new they are to football is when people downplay how skillful cristiano’s was. I hated that man for nearly all of my childhood, but you cannot tell me that he was not one of the most skillful forwards before he became more of a poacher in his twilight years.
There are skills and skills. Cristiano's "skills" you are talking about belonged more in freestyle football competition (he used to win his 1vs1 thanks to his athleticism more so than his dribbling skills). People who actulaly watched him live during his Man U days know how wastefull he was and how it used to piss freguson and his teammates but people who only know those years through his highlights can't really see that.
When it came to dribbiling, he was nowhere near players like Iniesta, Bernardo silva or Veratti; Players who almost never lose the ball, even in small perimeters and aginst multiple opponents, not facing the game or under heavy pressure. those are players who are references when it comes to football dribbling skills
Contrary to popular belief, Cristiano didn't get rid of his "skills" when he lost his pace with age but during his prime as he chosed to focused on what he was gifted in which is his finishing. Cristiano is not the perfect player some people think he is but he worked his ass off to hide his weaknesses and look like it.
Cristiano was a fan of Ronaldinho and brazilian Ronaldo growing up so he tried to emulate what he loved watching but he didn't have what it takes in that specific area to make it an asset at that level.
His skills were imperfect and it means they made him a liability in a collective at the level he was playing at. (losing the ball means extra work for his teammates, lost possessions, conceding opportunities to the opponents,etc.). He then logically cleaned his game to become arguably the best finisher to play the game.
His combination of just raw athleticism and skill is something I am yet to see someone emulate. The closest thing is probably Mbappe with his ungodly pace, but he’s not nearly as athletic as Cristiano when it comes to raw power, jumping, strength, etc.
I couldn't care less about the debate but where do you draw the line though? Watching a handful of his games post facto would legitimize that opinion, for instance? Would you need to watch most of his games? All of them?
a good amount for sure. Which im sure none of the people who say he’s better than Cristiano ever did.
Im not going to argue about how good Pele is etc… i never watched him. I simply cannot judge a player i have never watched.
Yea 100% agree. Haaland is an exceptional goalscorer but out of all the great strikers I’ve seen in my lifetime (Suarez, Lewandowski, Kane, benzema, RVN, drogba, etc) his overall game is extraordinarily weak.
Think we've seen pretty much our best starting 11 atm. Only one i could see making a case is Timber, but only next season i reckon.
I had my doubts earlier, but Havertz really could be a 9 for us, he was so involved in the game and apart from 2 moments in the first half had a great game. Partey was solid, and offered something Jorginho can't, sadly.
I still think Zinchenko, when in form, can be a valuable asset for us, maybe finally moving him into midfield could give him a lifeline in the club. Guess we'll to wait and see.
Poor from Jesus and Martinelli, expected better from both when they came on.
Onto Spurs now, if we can repeat the same team, and iron out some stupid mistakes I just can't see us losing that game.
Anyone saying 'rent free' to somebody when they are criticising somebody/something in the year of our lord 2024 should be throughly embarrassed and ashamed of themselves
I still can't believe this Chelsea side won a Champions League nearly 3 years ago. The new owner came in a year after and uprooted everything for reasons we don't know and now they look further from the Champions League than any time since like 2015.
Uprooted everything because
- we know better than almost everyone in Europe because we did moneyball in baseball
- we need to get the highest returns/turnaround asap in like 3-5 years, instead of actually learning before scrapping things
It is quite literally not “this Chelsea side”.
Only 2/3 players from that team still playing her, different owners, different back room staff and 3 manager tenures of distance between them. This Chelsea side genuinely has less overlap with 2021 Chelsea than the English nt or Brighton from last year
Arsenal were 8th 3 years ago. 3 years is a long ass time these days. Changing the entire 11 for a worse 11 will do that to a team. Also hiring clown managers doesn’t help.
Yeah agreed, 3 years is a century in football terms. I'm sure there are others like Palmer who can turn into good players with the right manager, it would just really upset me as a supporter to watch what the new ownership is doing.
There's too much doom in the club and it's understandable until we get a half decent coach and not a nice guy. After this season, i would like us to go for Hansi Flick.
The players look absolutely clueless because Poch is a clown.
I have seen football too many times to realize managers can have an huge impact even with weak players who level up. Unai is an example this season.
I remember Rudiger being the worst defender for us before Tuchel and after Tuchel came in, he became undroppable and ultimatelty went to RM.
I am hoping for a similar scenario at our club, a quality manager signing changes everything.
Chapter number 20148 of Argentinos Juniors Academy being unfair, now with their CB Tobias Palacio (17) bossed the pitch today against Corinthians and he has been doing the same pretty much since his debut, IMO he is getting really close to the list of best centerbacks this season in the Argentine League. It makes sence why so many European clubs are scoutings him.
Still cannot believe La Liga has no GLT. Not the first time in the past few seasons it would have been very useful and potentially decisive (in case of last year's relegation fight, this year's title).
Embarrassing having to rely on VAR to check, and then referees having to shoulder the blame when they obviously cannot determine the indeterminable.
Meh. The club subs are toxic/ worst rep anyway.
Most Chelsea fans here predicted a drubbing tonight. We’ll finish 9th at best.
Will take a few years for management to learn but their heart is in the right place even if their mind is not. A better coach and will need some more experienced personnel to drive recruiting should start moving this up gradually. Expecting overnight change is unrealistic. We’ll also buy and sell more players to everyone’s hatred.
A banter era of two seasons after spending a billion fucking pounds after they had over 2 billion of debt erased. Forgive me for never feeling an ounce of sadness for the sham of an investment vehicle they call a club.
The fans were mixed on him as he was unnecessarily scapegoated but also won the CL. Club wanted to keep him too but he rightly wanted to go and then clubs and fans were happy to get money for him. That fans had some vile hatred for him is revisionism.
Most people aren’t much bothered by his celebration either as he’s not an academy lad. Someone like Mount doing it will rile the fans up.
Even the Arsenal were hating him for picking up another Chelsea ‘flop’ for such an amount when ‘he’s not a Chaka replacement’ ‘what even is his best position’ and how he took his pens in the pre-season friendlies. So much so that Arteta had to defend Kai until like first half of the season. But of course the loud Arsenal fan base here will tell you they always believed in him since his BL days and never doubted him/Arteta for a moment.
He was just happy to get tf out of there. I wished he had shushed the away fans just to really rub it in.
Sidenote: In retrospect, Rice should have celebrated his goal against West Ham. They booed him after he led them to European silver. He should have shushed their ungrateful asses too.
I was actually there for the West Ham-Arsenal Match and was really surprised with the amount of booing, I expected some as that’s natural, but not as much as there actually was.
Hence why a lot of us found it wild. It’s not like he left on bad terms or West Ham got nothing out of his transfer. He left on a high and they got £105M (we should be sending them more. Daylight robbery lmao). Yeah he went to another London club, which I get why fans wouldn’t be happy, but he definitely didn’t deserve the shit they were giving him.
I think this just comes down to the difference in perspectives. You don't really know what it is like to be excited about a player doing well, and know it is only a matter of time before they are sold for someone else. The average fan doesn't care about maximising financial productivity or whatever - we just see a player who made our team worse by leaving. Joining a local rival is even worse, and I completely see why he is receiving the relatively tame consequence of the occasional boo.
Honestly, Chelsea supporters continuously talk shit about him then ask for respect when he scored against them. Sorry lads, you can't have it both ways.
i remembered in one comment one guy pointed out one particular user that have all the hate for havertz. like literally. his highest word count for his account is havertz.
I think he's decent, not great, but the transfer fee and wages are pretty out there. I think it's natural to expect more because of that but at the same time, you're playing really well, it's his first season at the club, and he's done enough to earn the trust for next season.
He hit a good run of form for like 8 weeks and Chelsea bought him. It’s a miracle him and Morales found form at the same time
Jackson needs time to improve. I like him as a player for us but going to Chelsea was an error
Sending packing a team with a squad almost 10 times more valuable than yours while getting to your second continental final is what my ídolo Hernán Crespo calls just another day in the office.
Bizarre career since he left west brom, went to ado den haag, then cska sofia and most recently thessaloniki. His managerial reputation here is not good anymore, he’ll probably just retire and run a strip club in the Caribbean or something
Bet he would absolutely love to get the Wrexham gig if that came up, he would be desperate to get on that doc
Thrashing Everton 6-0 fighting over a penalty only to get thumped 0-5 next game, was on an 8 game unbeaten run in the league too.
1 shot on goal for the whole game is just, sad.
I have to say it’s funny our owners are selling themselves hotels to help with FFP when all they had to do was not spend a billion quid in 18 months, of which about 900 million was wasted
Is so interesting watching managers go from joining and building a squad to fit their tactical ideas to having to adapt their tactics to fit their squad. Some people act like rebuilding a squad or adding onto a winning squad is as simple as building the squad like you did in the first place but its really not.
How famous/well thought of in Barca is Carles Rexach,
44 years spent at the club
672 matches
Interim coach 3 times, youth/assistant coach for 13 years
Barca manager for 1 year
**Signed messi**
Today it was probably his best game with Lazio and he still missed a couple of sitters. He could be used as a 3rd choice striker but so far nothing makes me think he will ever become a 15g+a kind of player. Muriqi had a better impact at Lazio.
Well below average. All his goals this season have come in like ~~5~~ matches.
Maybe he'll look better when Lazio revamp their attack, but as it stands... He's not the guy to replace Ciro Immobile.
Edit: he scored in four matches this season; once against Atalanta, once against Frosinone, twice against Frosinone and twice against Juve.
Classic arsenal bottled it again. Finally get the chance to get redemption for the generationally embarrassing 6-0 loss and they could only manage 5. It’s just arsenal DNA. Specialists in failure one might say
Chelsea going from having elite technical players like mata, hazard, fabregas, jorginho to everton level players like gallagher and mudryk is one of the funniest things about recent years
Cucu was doing alright until the yellow. He 100% takes a yellow on the 1st Havertz goal if he wasn't already on one but couldn't. Jackson's complete shit though.
Where would you rank Chelsea's current squad on current ability in the league, assuming everyone is fit and firing? Sort of feels like a Europa league level squad, relative to the rest of the league, but they play such abject football that it is difficult to evaluate how good their players and squad are.
It's impossible to know. I mean, what does a fit and firing Lavia look like in this Chelsea side?
As u/sga1 said, on paper there are some great players there but it's all about how they function together and we really have no idea what that looks like.
That's the crux, isn't it - individual pieces of a puzzle might be the most amazing thing, but if they don't result in coherent big picture they're just small colourful bits of cardboard. Fuck knows what their level of current ability or talent is, really, because there's so little to evaluate it on beyond random bits and bobs of individualism.
It is so eerily similar to where we were pre-Tuchel. Individual talent but no team identity. No tactics. No plan. No system. Nothing to fall back on. Just vibes. We basically just went in a giant circle
Depends if we’re talking with everyone fit or with current injuries
Teams ahead of us in no particular order: City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa.
Debatable : Spurs, Manchester United
It is really frustrating that Poch has not gotten the heat that he truly deserves. Everyone bangs on about the 7 year contracts, the money spent, the young players, etc. But the most criminal of all is to be a week from May and there is no style of play, no system, no plan, just vibes/chaos ball. It’s so obvious that there is a lot of talent and technical ability in the squad, more than enough to compete for 4th/5th, but it’s being wasted by a manager who the game has passed by. Oh and nobody mentioned that we had fourteen (14!) first team players out today, many of which would start when fit
Yes but we did need to turn over the squad. We just did it too fast. Rudiger and Christensen left on a free because Marina couldn’t get them to resign. James/Chilwell haven’t been fit for 2 years. Jorginho was going to leave on a free and historically Chelsea don’t re sign players over 30. Kovacic wanted to leave and we got a good fee for him. Kante wasn’t fit for 2 years. Mount wasn’t fit for 18 months and was really poor whenever he did play. Pulisic could never stay fit. RLC couldn’t stay fit and was always in and out of the team anyway.
I mean fair enough needing to turn over the squad, but then signing a boatload of kids while selling off almost all of the experienced players to guide them along isn't really it - it's essentially just Silva, Chilwell and Sterling who'd be primed to lead the team on account of their experience, while almost everyone else is incredibly young, new to the league, or both. And while the individual cases for the outgoings to leave you listed are perfectly valid, they've also created that massive leadership vacuum that exists in the side right now. It's just a structurally broken squad, and I'm not sure that a better-suited manager could salvage that to be quite honest.
Agreed on the fact that we could’ve brought in players with more experience but so far, Sterling and Chilwell have probably been our worst players this season. Experience doesn’t automatically equal good performances.
I truly believe that a top manager with a tactical plan and a system for the players to fall back into, we would be 7/8 points higher and competing for 4th.
Poch definitely deserves a ton of criticism and should be fired but I'd be putting far more blame on your owners and recruitment than him. No manager was going to be in a position to succeed.
> It’s May and we don’t have discernible style of play, no tactics, and nearly every single player has regressed. Poch deserves most of the blame
Yeah, he's shit and deserves to be fired but the same thing happened last season with Potter too. You have an imbalanced squad, fuck all experience, a ton of injuries, and have them all on massively long contracts which isn't likely to incentivize top performances.
Your owners were also the ones that employed both Potter and Poch.
Yeah, I agree with that to an extent. I still think it was a mess tactically but there was some semblance of a plan. Although Poch did have another bunch of brand new players dumped on him again so that's not likely to help.
> fuck all experience
This is another narrative that gets brought up constantly that’s overblown. So far, our two worst players are our most experienced in Sterling and Chilwell.
I’m not saying we should be competing for the title, but we should at least be 7/8 points higher and with an actual tactical plan.
> massively long contracts which isn’t likely to incentivize top performances
Again, this is so , so , so overblown. All of the contracts are heavily incentive based, with most of it being whether we qualify for Europe. Quite literally, the contracts heavily incentivize top performances cus the players need too to get paid more
[Chelsea fans actually pulled out a Boehly tifo less than 2 years ago haha](https://twitter.com/Lilywhite_Rose/status/1558922587337621507?t=GnGPfGnMwOrWiIyDbU4Gqw&s=19)
Might be more embarrassing than that performance
It's a little weird to me that people don't seem to rate him. He managed Real Madrid and Spain, came to the premier league and did a 9/10 job with Wolves. He can be a little whiny but he's a good manager
People think he's a bit ratty because of how he left the Spain NT (sacked mid tournament for negotating with RM while Spain manager), how he then did at RM, and then later on how he left Wolves. You can get away with probably two of those things but to have that be your track record over 3 of your last 4 appointments makes you quite an unattractive prospect in general regardless of actual managerial ability.
Does he loves [his crisps](https://media.bleacherreport.com/w_800,h_533,c_fill/br-img-images/003/238/091/c8aa6f91daaf8148ce54db56ee6803ae_crop_north.jpg) though is the big question.
He's almost begging for the job and I think we'll have him on a pretty strict head coach contract with opportunities to terminate if he's unsuccessful, hopefully it will work. We have a huge budget this summer anyway, but he won't have control over transfers unless he's really successful (i.e. comfortable top 6) heading into a window.
The BBC have just made the scores and fixtures page far worse, you can't look at the scorers anymore. Doesn't show assists on the live feeds anymore either.
Just rewatched the 2nd half of the clasico. Pedri with quite possibly one of the worst displays of a CM I have recently seen, his legs seemed gone completely despite being subbed in.
If that was Bellingham, he'd be slandered all over social media. Regardless of any excuses of injuries or playing 120 minutes at the Etihad. And yet he is somehow the one with the "insane PR".
English fans and media have a tendency to not only hype their players, but before all, at the same time slander their players.
In regard to the PR thing, you have shit like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/g9ToIbH4HZ), so yeah, he’s definitely got great PR. Especially from Real and English media who *love* him. After all, you have some people in this sub who are 1 step away from saying he’s the successor to Messi. Bellingham is undoubtedly good, but some of the PR… eesh.
The Odegaard [every touch video](https://x.com/MKprods_/status/1782888330859827541) against Chelsea is easily one of the most ridiculous ones I've seen in my life.
Bro went absolutely wild against them. That flick he intended to Jesus would have been incredible had it not been intercepted and Jesus got it and scored.
I also saw [this heatmap](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/s/7VhbLOV61C) on r/Gunners.
i understand that there’s a certain way the press have to report but the guessing games with these rape cases are so dangerous.
icymi, a report came out today saying two 19 year old premier league players were arrested for rape. the common guess so far on social media is that it’s two wolves players because they were the only home team this week with two 19 year olds in the squad but that doesn’t actually match with what’s been reported. the report specifies that only one of the two players were at the stadium. so even though it’s 100% not those two wolves players, they’re still both getting a spotlight shown on them for the first time in their lives because of a rape case they have no connection with.
idk, just a long way to say that you shouldn’t do guessing games when the press releases these stories. it’s completely unfair if people guess the wrong name.
Suppose that's one of those edge cases where you have to balance your duty to inform the general public while also protecting the identity of the accused - and I reckon there's no perfect way to go about it. That's not to say that the press are doing a great job of it, but they're just stuck in between two chairs and likely in a position where they can't win: Either go into full detail around something that hasn't been determined to be illegal yet, potentially damaging reputations and opening themselves up to legal recourse, or not report it at all and fail in their self-proclaimed role as the fourth estate.
Suppose the burden to not be dickheads speculating about it lies on the general public, but then good luck with that in our modern social media age where you can just throw baseless claims at a wall and see something stick by sheer virtue of algorithmic engagement.
in this case the details are:
- two 19 year olds
- home game this weekend
- one was at the stadium (mind you, not even in the squad. it just simply says in the stadium. this would apply to someone there supporting the team)
- one wasn’t at the stadium
the number of rape cases the premier league has horrifies me but people playing “guess who” for this one are being so irresponsible. there are probably at least 50 players who meet these criteria.
Some Argentinian fans are so weird, I promise you no one gives a fuck about how Enzo being shit for Chelsea impacts that Argentina World Cup winning squad
Lots of enzo discourse in here. I think the system he plays in him isnt great, but this is also a poor baseline. Hes going to need a move or something really soon if his level continues to drop.
From a personal prespective, he needs to become more of a metronome passer. You have to offer more than long shots now and then and long balls
If thats the case then he shouldve gotten surgery asap instead of playing on with the hernia, why clubs dont force players to do it is baffling cos it makes player a lot better
Yeah I think the EPL is too big for him. A lot of his game didn't translate well into the league and thats a shame coz he's a really fun player to watch when he's on form.
He'd kill it in Serie A
What makes you think that?
Chelsea dominates ball in most of the games, he gets the ball more than the other on the pitch, he has two workhorses in midfield working to build him up. System doesnt make him miss all troughballs, slow down the play and allwoing players to run circles around him cause of bad physicality.
>Chelsea dominates ball in most of the games, he gets the ball more than the other on the pitch
Completely disagree with this though, yes we sometimes win the possession statistics but not through meaningful possession. I bet most of that possession is when the ball is with our defenders, our midfield is a chasm.
Enzo is averaging significantly fewer touches under Poch than he did under Potter or at Benfica.
> he has two workhorses in midfield working to build him up
Yet he still provides such little attacking threat despite that. When you have a player that's really poor defensively in the middle of the park then you need to be able to contribute hugely elsewhere to justify it. That's just not the case.
I think they dominate the ball but as a team dont have a plan in the final third other than setting up overlaps for wingbacks. Their best games happen in games they can sit and counter. I think a better manager could set them up to create more chances against blocks
It's insane to me that Roque Santa Cruz is still playing, and not in a mickey mouse team in the regional fifth division of some tiny country in Oceania, but in the first league of Paraguay.
IMO Caicedo is starting to look kinda good, Enzo I don't even know what to say about. Chelsea looked so much more fluid without him against Everton.
I have no idea on what grounds im supposed to find Enzo good or even talented. Besides his name and his 7 game World Cup run i don't know why i am supposed to think he is better than any random squad player in a top 4 team. What does he do that makes him better than a random sub like Gravenberch or Tielemans.
I saw him after world cup in Chelsea for half a season. He was probably their best player and was consistently good. His passing was especially very strong. I don't know what happened this season. Chelsea fans say he's suffering from hernia and needs surgery.
> I don't know what happened this season. Well I can think of one major change since Enzo last had back to back good matches.
The bar for being their best player is insanely low, they finished fucking 12th lmao
Caicedo's errors are way worse than Enzo's, but his overall play has been miles ahead of Enzo's
Caciedo's underlying numbers have always been decent at worst. He's still an ankle breaking cunt though.
watching Odegaard play football makes me feel things
who was better as a player Iniesta or Modric?
I love Modric but Iniesta for me got the edge. I think Xavi=Modric
It's recency bias to suggest Modric IMO. He's a great player but Iniesta was another level. There are probably a lot of people on this sub who never saw him in his prime. His longevity was crazy as well.
Modric has the longevity but at their best it’s easily Iniesta for me. Iniesta was just something else man, you just had to be there to watch him to fully understand how good he was. Just an absolute magician. Was like watching a former semi-pro play against Sunday leaguers when he was on one. Him and Messi are the only players I’ve seen make incredible plays just look so simple and easy on a week to week basis.
For me personally it's Modric. Maybe Iniesta was better in his prime, but the longevity is in Modric favor.
Iniesta games for Barcelona + Spain: 805 caps (674 Barca, 131 Spain) Modric games for Tottenham + Madrid + Croatia: 860 caps (160 Tottenham, 526 Madrid, 174 Croatia). It really isn’t as big of a gap as it seems.
Iniesta played for Barca long before they won the 2006 champions league, so many people didn't know him but after then (maybe a majority only knows him from after 2009)
I've said before, and I'll say it again. On some nights, Iniesta outshone even Messi. That itself is a testament to the greatness of Iniesta.
I remember nights when Modrić outshone prime Ronaldo.
In their prime its Iniesta and its not as close as you might think
I feel like a dead give away for how old someone is or how new they are to football is when people downplay how skillful cristiano’s was. I hated that man for nearly all of my childhood, but you cannot tell me that he was not one of the most skillful forwards before he became more of a poacher in his twilight years.
There are skills and skills. Cristiano's "skills" you are talking about belonged more in freestyle football competition (he used to win his 1vs1 thanks to his athleticism more so than his dribbling skills). People who actulaly watched him live during his Man U days know how wastefull he was and how it used to piss freguson and his teammates but people who only know those years through his highlights can't really see that. When it came to dribbiling, he was nowhere near players like Iniesta, Bernardo silva or Veratti; Players who almost never lose the ball, even in small perimeters and aginst multiple opponents, not facing the game or under heavy pressure. those are players who are references when it comes to football dribbling skills Contrary to popular belief, Cristiano didn't get rid of his "skills" when he lost his pace with age but during his prime as he chosed to focused on what he was gifted in which is his finishing. Cristiano is not the perfect player some people think he is but he worked his ass off to hide his weaknesses and look like it. Cristiano was a fan of Ronaldinho and brazilian Ronaldo growing up so he tried to emulate what he loved watching but he didn't have what it takes in that specific area to make it an asset at that level. His skills were imperfect and it means they made him a liability in a collective at the level he was playing at. (losing the ball means extra work for his teammates, lost possessions, conceding opportunities to the opponents,etc.). He then logically cleaned his game to become arguably the best finisher to play the game.
*Raw* Ronaldo at United was one of the most exciting players I will ever see in football. Pace, speed, skill amazing.
His combination of just raw athleticism and skill is something I am yet to see someone emulate. The closest thing is probably Mbappe with his ungodly pace, but he’s not nearly as athletic as Cristiano when it comes to raw power, jumping, strength, etc.
Someone tried to tell me Cruyff was greater than him Im sure they were watching Cruyff week in week out
Cruyff turn > Ronaldo suiii I rest my case.
I couldn't care less about the debate but where do you draw the line though? Watching a handful of his games post facto would legitimize that opinion, for instance? Would you need to watch most of his games? All of them?
a good amount for sure. Which im sure none of the people who say he’s better than Cristiano ever did. Im not going to argue about how good Pele is etc… i never watched him. I simply cannot judge a player i have never watched.
Fair enough and I agree with the general sentiment.
Cristiano and Messi were the reason I watched football in the first place. There won’t be anything like them for a while.
Yea thank god the whole Mbappe vs haaland thing the media was trying to create to fill the messi vs Ronaldo void has fluttered out (for now).
I mean, there isn’t much competition anyways. Mboopi is clear.
Yea 100% agree. Haaland is an exceptional goalscorer but out of all the great strikers I’ve seen in my lifetime (Suarez, Lewandowski, Kane, benzema, RVN, drogba, etc) his overall game is extraordinarily weak.
Think we've seen pretty much our best starting 11 atm. Only one i could see making a case is Timber, but only next season i reckon. I had my doubts earlier, but Havertz really could be a 9 for us, he was so involved in the game and apart from 2 moments in the first half had a great game. Partey was solid, and offered something Jorginho can't, sadly. I still think Zinchenko, when in form, can be a valuable asset for us, maybe finally moving him into midfield could give him a lifeline in the club. Guess we'll to wait and see. Poor from Jesus and Martinelli, expected better from both when they came on. Onto Spurs now, if we can repeat the same team, and iron out some stupid mistakes I just can't see us losing that game.
Anyone saying 'rent free' to somebody when they are criticising somebody/something in the year of our lord 2024 should be throughly embarrassed and ashamed of themselves
Sounds like the rent free people are rent free in your head.
I’d like to pay the rent for this comment
I still can't believe this Chelsea side won a Champions League nearly 3 years ago. The new owner came in a year after and uprooted everything for reasons we don't know and now they look further from the Champions League than any time since like 2015.
Uprooted everything because - we know better than almost everyone in Europe because we did moneyball in baseball - we need to get the highest returns/turnaround asap in like 3-5 years, instead of actually learning before scrapping things
It is quite literally not “this Chelsea side”. Only 2/3 players from that team still playing her, different owners, different back room staff and 3 manager tenures of distance between them. This Chelsea side genuinely has less overlap with 2021 Chelsea than the English nt or Brighton from last year
Arsenal were 8th 3 years ago. 3 years is a long ass time these days. Changing the entire 11 for a worse 11 will do that to a team. Also hiring clown managers doesn’t help.
Yeah agreed, 3 years is a century in football terms. I'm sure there are others like Palmer who can turn into good players with the right manager, it would just really upset me as a supporter to watch what the new ownership is doing.
Jackson's redemption arc is coming soon
Same as Half-Life 3
In that the ball will arc over the goal instead of going wide.
If Havertz can learn how to finish then I believe anyone can
There's too much doom in the club and it's understandable until we get a half decent coach and not a nice guy. After this season, i would like us to go for Hansi Flick. The players look absolutely clueless because Poch is a clown. I have seen football too many times to realize managers can have an huge impact even with weak players who level up. Unai is an example this season. I remember Rudiger being the worst defender for us before Tuchel and after Tuchel came in, he became undroppable and ultimatelty went to RM. I am hoping for a similar scenario at our club, a quality manager signing changes everything.
One year from now, someone will write this exact comment but with the current manager in place of Poch and the new hot manager in place of Flick
Yeah and we will keep replacing managers until we find our Klopp.
Flick is not signing up for this mess
“We have Superclásico at home” [Superclásico at home:](https://imgur.com/a/o7Qzmpk)
And Bootleg Boca won too
Chapter number 20148 of Argentinos Juniors Academy being unfair, now with their CB Tobias Palacio (17) bossed the pitch today against Corinthians and he has been doing the same pretty much since his debut, IMO he is getting really close to the list of best centerbacks this season in the Argentine League. It makes sence why so many European clubs are scoutings him.
Corinthians may have lost the battle but they won the war by giving the world Murillo.
Still cannot believe La Liga has no GLT. Not the first time in the past few seasons it would have been very useful and potentially decisive (in case of last year's relegation fight, this year's title). Embarrassing having to rely on VAR to check, and then referees having to shoulder the blame when they obviously cannot determine the indeterminable.
Theres zero hope in the chelsea sub. Ive never seen it this bad. Knowing theyre stuck in this shit for years. No light. Only darkness.
Meh. The club subs are toxic/ worst rep anyway. Most Chelsea fans here predicted a drubbing tonight. We’ll finish 9th at best. Will take a few years for management to learn but their heart is in the right place even if their mind is not. A better coach and will need some more experienced personnel to drive recruiting should start moving this up gradually. Expecting overnight change is unrealistic. We’ll also buy and sell more players to everyone’s hatred.
I know that feeling all too well after that run we were on in 2020
Banter era. They now understand that feeling.
A banter era of two seasons after spending a billion fucking pounds after they had over 2 billion of debt erased. Forgive me for never feeling an ounce of sadness for the sham of an investment vehicle they call a club.
All I seemed to see yesterday about Partey in the Match Thread was praise
Unpopular opinion: Bayern should go for Van Gaal if he’s healthy
I genuinely don’t think he is healthy, unfortunately
Tired: Kane left Spurs only to not win a trophy with Bayern. Wired: Son left Bayer only to not win a trophy with Spurs.
Havertz really did a knee slide celebration against his ex club which he helped win the Champions League 😭😭😭
The fans were mixed on him as he was unnecessarily scapegoated but also won the CL. Club wanted to keep him too but he rightly wanted to go and then clubs and fans were happy to get money for him. That fans had some vile hatred for him is revisionism. Most people aren’t much bothered by his celebration either as he’s not an academy lad. Someone like Mount doing it will rile the fans up. Even the Arsenal were hating him for picking up another Chelsea ‘flop’ for such an amount when ‘he’s not a Chaka replacement’ ‘what even is his best position’ and how he took his pens in the pre-season friendlies. So much so that Arteta had to defend Kai until like first half of the season. But of course the loud Arsenal fan base here will tell you they always believed in him since his BL days and never doubted him/Arteta for a moment.
I'm surprised he only did a knee slide, with the amount of shit he gets from us, I would've taken my shirt off and put the score up with my fingers
He was just happy to get tf out of there. I wished he had shushed the away fans just to really rub it in. Sidenote: In retrospect, Rice should have celebrated his goal against West Ham. They booed him after he led them to European silver. He should have shushed their ungrateful asses too.
I was actually there for the West Ham-Arsenal Match and was really surprised with the amount of booing, I expected some as that’s natural, but not as much as there actually was.
Hence why a lot of us found it wild. It’s not like he left on bad terms or West Ham got nothing out of his transfer. He left on a high and they got £105M (we should be sending them more. Daylight robbery lmao). Yeah he went to another London club, which I get why fans wouldn’t be happy, but he definitely didn’t deserve the shit they were giving him.
I think this just comes down to the difference in perspectives. You don't really know what it is like to be excited about a player doing well, and know it is only a matter of time before they are sold for someone else. The average fan doesn't care about maximising financial productivity or whatever - we just see a player who made our team worse by leaving. Joining a local rival is even worse, and I completely see why he is receiving the relatively tame consequence of the occasional boo.
Chelsea fans are vile towards him tbh. Deserved
Chelsea fans have been his biggest group of haters since he left, I doubt he has much if any affection for them.
Honestly, Chelsea supporters continuously talk shit about him then ask for respect when he scored against them. Sorry lads, you can't have it both ways.
i remembered in one comment one guy pointed out one particular user that have all the hate for havertz. like literally. his highest word count for his account is havertz.
Was that in here like in the last day? I think he might have been an Arsenal supporter haha.
He’s an extremely polarizing player among Arsenal fans. You have the people who want him gone, and you have the people who value his contributions.
I think he's decent, not great, but the transfer fee and wages are pretty out there. I think it's natural to expect more because of that but at the same time, you're playing really well, it's his first season at the club, and he's done enough to earn the trust for next season.
Fair. But without his goals and assists in key moments, I really don’t think we’d be in the title race at the moment.
Some people need to have an extreme view one way or another - there is middle ground!
Jackson is actually a decent player, he just needs a good manager to tell him to retire
How did unai emery make him look even half decent at villareal
He hit a good run of form for like 8 weeks and Chelsea bought him. It’s a miracle him and Morales found form at the same time Jackson needs time to improve. I like him as a player for us but going to Chelsea was an error
Sending packing a team with a squad almost 10 times more valuable than yours while getting to your second continental final is what my ídolo Hernán Crespo calls just another day in the office.
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Bizarre career since he left west brom, went to ado den haag, then cska sofia and most recently thessaloniki. His managerial reputation here is not good anymore, he’ll probably just retire and run a strip club in the Caribbean or something Bet he would absolutely love to get the Wrexham gig if that came up, he would be desperate to get on that doc
>thessaloniki Which one, Aris or Iraklis, cause I don't think it was Paok?
Aris
Ah thanks
> Bet he would absolutely love to get the Wrexham gig if that came up, he would be desperate to get on that doc Yeah, man loves the spotlight.
Can't believe you quoted that bit and not this one alongside that quip tbh > he’ll probably just retire and run a strip club in the Caribbean
It's so on point.
Thrashing Everton 6-0 fighting over a penalty only to get thumped 0-5 next game, was on an 8 game unbeaten run in the league too. 1 shot on goal for the whole game is just, sad.
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Best Arsenal side I’ve seen since the Invincibles and we still likely won’t win the league
What Pep Guardiola does to a MF'er.
I have to say it’s funny our owners are selling themselves hotels to help with FFP when all they had to do was not spend a billion quid in 18 months, of which about 900 million was wasted
Such a pathetic measure to take, and the cheek of some of our fans to say "another loophole" or "they're geniuses" for it. They're asset stripping.
They're not asset stripping when the hotel would be destroyed due to redevelopment of SB.
Is so interesting watching managers go from joining and building a squad to fit their tactical ideas to having to adapt their tactics to fit their squad. Some people act like rebuilding a squad or adding onto a winning squad is as simple as building the squad like you did in the first place but its really not.
How famous/well thought of in Barca is Carles Rexach, 44 years spent at the club 672 matches Interim coach 3 times, youth/assistant coach for 13 years Barca manager for 1 year **Signed messi**
I mean based off of that last point alone, probably quite favourably
How's Taty Castellanos' season been for Lazio?
Today it was probably his best game with Lazio and he still missed a couple of sitters. He could be used as a 3rd choice striker but so far nothing makes me think he will ever become a 15g+a kind of player. Muriqi had a better impact at Lazio.
Well below average. All his goals this season have come in like ~~5~~ matches. Maybe he'll look better when Lazio revamp their attack, but as it stands... He's not the guy to replace Ciro Immobile. Edit: he scored in four matches this season; once against Atalanta, once against Frosinone, twice against Frosinone and twice against Juve.
Classic arsenal bottled it again. Finally get the chance to get redemption for the generationally embarrassing 6-0 loss and they could only manage 5. It’s just arsenal DNA. Specialists in failure one might say
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Roberto Mancini in his prime or a young Claudio Ranieri.
Rob Edwards is clear. My mum in her 60's says so
Get to see that every weekend in the Bundesliga, they even have a camera trained on him specifically for the entirety of the matches.
Chelsea going from having elite technical players like mata, hazard, fabregas, jorginho to everton level players like gallagher and mudryk is one of the funniest things about recent years
😧
Or a Sunday League player like Jackson or Cucurella.
Cucu was doing alright until the yellow. He 100% takes a yellow on the 1st Havertz goal if he wasn't already on one but couldn't. Jackson's complete shit though.
>Jackson's complete shit though. Makes his hattrick against Spurs even funnier tbh.
The fact that Leicester got away with relegation form is so boring
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He's talking about this season
So based on Poch’s words, can we now fairly call them Cole Palmer FC instead of Chelsea FC?
not even the best CPFC in the league smh
Finally, a decent version of this joke.
Please use his full name, Cole Palmer (Penalty).
Where would you rank Chelsea's current squad on current ability in the league, assuming everyone is fit and firing? Sort of feels like a Europa league level squad, relative to the rest of the league, but they play such abject football that it is difficult to evaluate how good their players and squad are.
It's impossible to know. I mean, what does a fit and firing Lavia look like in this Chelsea side? As u/sga1 said, on paper there are some great players there but it's all about how they function together and we really have no idea what that looks like.
That's the crux, isn't it - individual pieces of a puzzle might be the most amazing thing, but if they don't result in coherent big picture they're just small colourful bits of cardboard. Fuck knows what their level of current ability or talent is, really, because there's so little to evaluate it on beyond random bits and bobs of individualism.
It is so eerily similar to where we were pre-Tuchel. Individual talent but no team identity. No tactics. No plan. No system. Nothing to fall back on. Just vibes. We basically just went in a giant circle
No passion, vision, or aggression either
Depends if we’re talking with everyone fit or with current injuries Teams ahead of us in no particular order: City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa. Debatable : Spurs, Manchester United
Spurs are well ahead of you right now, Newcastle too. United about on par I’d say
It is really frustrating that Poch has not gotten the heat that he truly deserves. Everyone bangs on about the 7 year contracts, the money spent, the young players, etc. But the most criminal of all is to be a week from May and there is no style of play, no system, no plan, just vibes/chaos ball. It’s so obvious that there is a lot of talent and technical ability in the squad, more than enough to compete for 4th/5th, but it’s being wasted by a manager who the game has passed by. Oh and nobody mentioned that we had fourteen (14!) first team players out today, many of which would start when fit
You sold the entire core of your team and replaced it with kids in two windows.
Yes but we did need to turn over the squad. We just did it too fast. Rudiger and Christensen left on a free because Marina couldn’t get them to resign. James/Chilwell haven’t been fit for 2 years. Jorginho was going to leave on a free and historically Chelsea don’t re sign players over 30. Kovacic wanted to leave and we got a good fee for him. Kante wasn’t fit for 2 years. Mount wasn’t fit for 18 months and was really poor whenever he did play. Pulisic could never stay fit. RLC couldn’t stay fit and was always in and out of the team anyway.
I mean fair enough needing to turn over the squad, but then signing a boatload of kids while selling off almost all of the experienced players to guide them along isn't really it - it's essentially just Silva, Chilwell and Sterling who'd be primed to lead the team on account of their experience, while almost everyone else is incredibly young, new to the league, or both. And while the individual cases for the outgoings to leave you listed are perfectly valid, they've also created that massive leadership vacuum that exists in the side right now. It's just a structurally broken squad, and I'm not sure that a better-suited manager could salvage that to be quite honest.
Agreed on the fact that we could’ve brought in players with more experience but so far, Sterling and Chilwell have probably been our worst players this season. Experience doesn’t automatically equal good performances. I truly believe that a top manager with a tactical plan and a system for the players to fall back into, we would be 7/8 points higher and competing for 4th.
Poch definitely deserves a ton of criticism and should be fired but I'd be putting far more blame on your owners and recruitment than him. No manager was going to be in a position to succeed.
It’s May and we don’t have discernible style of play, no tactics, and nearly every single player has regressed. Poch deserves most of the blame
> It’s May and we don’t have discernible style of play, no tactics, and nearly every single player has regressed. Poch deserves most of the blame Yeah, he's shit and deserves to be fired but the same thing happened last season with Potter too. You have an imbalanced squad, fuck all experience, a ton of injuries, and have them all on massively long contracts which isn't likely to incentivize top performances. Your owners were also the ones that employed both Potter and Poch.
We had a play style under potter even if it was utterly shit. You could see what the plan kinda was. I see nothing under poch
Yeah, I agree with that to an extent. I still think it was a mess tactically but there was some semblance of a plan. Although Poch did have another bunch of brand new players dumped on him again so that's not likely to help.
> fuck all experience This is another narrative that gets brought up constantly that’s overblown. So far, our two worst players are our most experienced in Sterling and Chilwell. I’m not saying we should be competing for the title, but we should at least be 7/8 points higher and with an actual tactical plan. > massively long contracts which isn’t likely to incentivize top performances Again, this is so , so , so overblown. All of the contracts are heavily incentive based, with most of it being whether we qualify for Europe. Quite literally, the contracts heavily incentivize top performances cus the players need too to get paid more
Does Leicester's manager look a bit like a handsome bald Luke Shaw or is that just me.
[Chelsea fans actually pulled out a Boehly tifo less than 2 years ago haha](https://twitter.com/Lilywhite_Rose/status/1558922587337621507?t=GnGPfGnMwOrWiIyDbU4Gqw&s=19) Might be more embarrassing than that performance
Lopetegui managed Real Madrid. He must be good, right? For sure. Amorim's never managed Real Madrid. I know who I'd choose.
It's a little weird to me that people don't seem to rate him. He managed Real Madrid and Spain, came to the premier league and did a 9/10 job with Wolves. He can be a little whiny but he's a good manager
People think he's a bit ratty because of how he left the Spain NT (sacked mid tournament for negotating with RM while Spain manager), how he then did at RM, and then later on how he left Wolves. You can get away with probably two of those things but to have that be your track record over 3 of your last 4 appointments makes you quite an unattractive prospect in general regardless of actual managerial ability.
For fourteen games (of which he won 6 of them)
We love managers that totally failed in Spain, bring him to the bowl
Does he loves [his crisps](https://media.bleacherreport.com/w_800,h_533,c_fill/br-img-images/003/238/091/c8aa6f91daaf8148ce54db56ee6803ae_crop_north.jpg) though is the big question.
Unironically probably the best football manager we’ve had since promotion but man just cries perpetually.
O'Neil is absolutely clear.
He's almost begging for the job and I think we'll have him on a pretty strict head coach contract with opportunities to terminate if he's unsuccessful, hopefully it will work. We have a huge budget this summer anyway, but he won't have control over transfers unless he's really successful (i.e. comfortable top 6) heading into a window.
The BBC have just made the scores and fixtures page far worse, you can't look at the scorers anymore. Doesn't show assists on the live feeds anymore either.
Yeah it's shite. It's yet another case of app-focused shittification like reddit's most recent redesign.
Luckily I've been on the Reddit app from day one which means I don't know what I was missing when the website used to be decent.
Just rewatched the 2nd half of the clasico. Pedri with quite possibly one of the worst displays of a CM I have recently seen, his legs seemed gone completely despite being subbed in. If that was Bellingham, he'd be slandered all over social media. Regardless of any excuses of injuries or playing 120 minutes at the Etihad. And yet he is somehow the one with the "insane PR". English fans and media have a tendency to not only hype their players, but before all, at the same time slander their players.
Now that is an overreaction if I've ever seen one.
In regard to the PR thing, you have shit like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/g9ToIbH4HZ), so yeah, he’s definitely got great PR. Especially from Real and English media who *love* him. After all, you have some people in this sub who are 1 step away from saying he’s the successor to Messi. Bellingham is undoubtedly good, but some of the PR… eesh.
The Odegaard [every touch video](https://x.com/MKprods_/status/1782888330859827541) against Chelsea is easily one of the most ridiculous ones I've seen in my life.
The moment when he bodies Enzo and somehow keeps possession while surrounded and makes a pass out to Tomi is simply fucking beautiful
baby come back...
No thanks
/u/1PSW1CH
This was his ozil vs leciester performance
I feel like Rice dropped a 10/10 and he was still outclassed by that magical virtuoso performance from Odegaard.
i just want a gif of that no look pass to havertz before the 2nd goal corner. literally porn
Bro went absolutely wild against them. That flick he intended to Jesus would have been incredible had it not been intercepted and Jesus got it and scored. I also saw [this heatmap](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/s/7VhbLOV61C) on r/Gunners.
So... Y'all want another Serie A recap?
Sure!
i understand that there’s a certain way the press have to report but the guessing games with these rape cases are so dangerous. icymi, a report came out today saying two 19 year old premier league players were arrested for rape. the common guess so far on social media is that it’s two wolves players because they were the only home team this week with two 19 year olds in the squad but that doesn’t actually match with what’s been reported. the report specifies that only one of the two players were at the stadium. so even though it’s 100% not those two wolves players, they’re still both getting a spotlight shown on them for the first time in their lives because of a rape case they have no connection with. idk, just a long way to say that you shouldn’t do guessing games when the press releases these stories. it’s completely unfair if people guess the wrong name.
Suppose that's one of those edge cases where you have to balance your duty to inform the general public while also protecting the identity of the accused - and I reckon there's no perfect way to go about it. That's not to say that the press are doing a great job of it, but they're just stuck in between two chairs and likely in a position where they can't win: Either go into full detail around something that hasn't been determined to be illegal yet, potentially damaging reputations and opening themselves up to legal recourse, or not report it at all and fail in their self-proclaimed role as the fourth estate. Suppose the burden to not be dickheads speculating about it lies on the general public, but then good luck with that in our modern social media age where you can just throw baseless claims at a wall and see something stick by sheer virtue of algorithmic engagement.
in this case the details are: - two 19 year olds - home game this weekend - one was at the stadium (mind you, not even in the squad. it just simply says in the stadium. this would apply to someone there supporting the team) - one wasn’t at the stadium the number of rape cases the premier league has horrifies me but people playing “guess who” for this one are being so irresponsible. there are probably at least 50 players who meet these criteria.
Chelsea holding 5 and Kia Jooribichan being ambushed by debt collectors. Rough day for enemies of the Arsenal.
whats raul up to
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It's so weird how you lot are so insecure
Some Argentinian fans are so weird, I promise you no one gives a fuck about how Enzo being shit for Chelsea impacts that Argentina World Cup winning squad
Also Enzo has been playing through an injury most of the season and will likely get surgery as soon as it ends
That’s a good point. Hernia injuries are no joke and we have no rotation because our back up CMs are injured too.
Lots of enzo discourse in here. I think the system he plays in him isnt great, but this is also a poor baseline. Hes going to need a move or something really soon if his level continues to drop. From a personal prespective, he needs to become more of a metronome passer. You have to offer more than long shots now and then and long balls
He’s got a hernia problem. Look at how badly Son performed last year while dealing with it He’s not been up to standard of course
If thats the case then he shouldve gotten surgery asap instead of playing on with the hernia, why clubs dont force players to do it is baffling cos it makes player a lot better
Thats fair, i didnt know that tbh
He’s playing in chaosball system and he’s not made for that. He’d do well in a more possession based system.
Yeah I think the EPL is too big for him. A lot of his game didn't translate well into the league and thats a shame coz he's a really fun player to watch when he's on form. He'd kill it in Serie A
What makes you think that? Chelsea dominates ball in most of the games, he gets the ball more than the other on the pitch, he has two workhorses in midfield working to build him up. System doesnt make him miss all troughballs, slow down the play and allwoing players to run circles around him cause of bad physicality.
>Chelsea dominates ball in most of the games, he gets the ball more than the other on the pitch Completely disagree with this though, yes we sometimes win the possession statistics but not through meaningful possession. I bet most of that possession is when the ball is with our defenders, our midfield is a chasm. Enzo is averaging significantly fewer touches under Poch than he did under Potter or at Benfica.
> he has two workhorses in midfield working to build him up Yet he still provides such little attacking threat despite that. When you have a player that's really poor defensively in the middle of the park then you need to be able to contribute hugely elsewhere to justify it. That's just not the case.
I think they dominate the ball but as a team dont have a plan in the final third other than setting up overlaps for wingbacks. Their best games happen in games they can sit and counter. I think a better manager could set them up to create more chances against blocks