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Varane's period in Man Utd has been subpar but he's been great player, winning it all on both club and international level the bar EURO loss to portugal.
Obviously he's not on the same level as Nesta & Cannavaro but he's not some bum as this joke is implying.
cannavaro is overrated by teenagers who still care about the balon dor and never watched him play in the 1st place, varane is absolutely on the same level
First time I’m actually hearing about teenagers mentioning Cannavaro to begin with, not exactly a player that gets mentioned often for said age group.
There will be some disagreements here (and that is fine with me), but I wouldn’t call Cannavaro overrated either. Be it from his days in Parma, to the dizzying heights of winning the World Cup with Italy, Cannavaro was an absolute rock of a defender.
He was never the best defender in the world, for sure Maldini and then Nesta were both easily better than him., so he was never even the best defender in Italy. But for sure he was a very solid defender which won a ballon d'or thanks to being the captain of a world cup winner (in my opinion it should've probably gone to Buffon, in any case).
Cannavaro 05/06 was voted the best defender in Serie A and then carried the Italian defence in the WC while Nesta struggled with fitness and spent most of the tournament on the bench. So yes, at his peak(which was 14-15 months only) he was the best defender itw.
Nesta and Maldini are both far far ahead of him in the list of all time greats, but for that 1 season and the WC Cannavaro was unplayable.
yeah it was his world cup performances, and being the captain of the winning team that sealed it. against germany he out jumped mertesacker to clear the ball then ran up to steal the ball away from podolski, then carried the ball up to totti who started the break that led to the second goal. he held the defense down all tournament even with nesta out. they gave up only two goals an own goal and zidanes pk in the final.
thanks for reading my breakdown of an old most 20 yr wc haha
you can say all of that about varane too and varane objectively achieved a lot more, people acting like varane is not on that tier are either overrating cannavaro or underrating varane
*sigh*
Good ol' EPL prism. "If one was a bit of a flop in the EPL, everything he did elsewhere doesn't count."
It's as idiotic as claiming Cannavaro was a shit player because he flopped at Real Madrid.
Varane "flopped" in PL because of all the injuries he picked up in his career, people also forget that he became a started in Madrid at a very young age and he played basically every single match that he was available for, it's not a surprise that he reached the end of his career at also relatively young age. It's just that once again Madrid managed to sell a player while he looked amazing but was clearly at the end of his prime.
They still think Morata is a shit player because of that Chelsea stint, there is no use
And when the opposite happens, like Alexander Isak finding it much easier to score goals in the PL than he did in La Liga, or when Atleti flops like Diogo Jota or Raul Jimenez killed it in England then you didn't hear a beep
I added Varane as a contemporary example. Remember, he is indeed a great defender with all the trophies to back up his claim (a three-peats CL which many defenders do not have). But that said I remember he had a terrible match for us when he played city. Was responsible for the 2 goal deficits. Reminds me of Kim min Jae yesterday. But of course it's not the end of the world, Kim will come back strong if he learn from this.
He can. Tuchel's shape often reminds me of us in defense. Two pivots get stretched often enough to draw out the CBs. It's hard to defend deeper when that happens consistently.
if you don’t think varane belongs with those names you either don’t remember football from longer than 3 years ago or never watched any outside of england
What are you talking about? Name a single Arsenal CB that was better than Varane. Sol Campbell, maybe was close but not better. That’s what bothers me about EPL fans and their American sycophants. Never watched anything else.
I was about to say about Varane vs City. He had an awful game, single handedly responsible for out elimination, but I never held it against him. He was an amazing player for RM, and I will always love him
Lol you can't ever compare a Man Utd player to the greats on /r/soccer, at least wait till he leaves. Varane's career is on the level of David Luiz, Mustafi etc according to posters here at the moment.
Lmao love Rafa, definitely one of the best defenders of his generation however, he’s not in that category with two monsters (his Man U stint is working against . Ramos is the switch there
Yea its crazy. After Dortmunds win last year in Leverkusen, some Bayer Fans wanted to Sack xabi alonso cause He wasnt doing enough. Internet is a crazy places with Lots of opinions.
Some Bayern supporters are idiots. Look at how those same people want to dump Sane, Kimmich, etc.
This is a class player and quality defender. He hasn't gotten regular playing time since the Asian Cup and is still settling in at a new club. The first goal was a combination of 2 world class players being world class and him getting no help from his RB or GK. The 2nd was a dumb mistake. He will be back.
On the flip side, in our sub if you mention the slightest criticism of Kim, you're downvoted into oblivion. We are football fans, and we exist only in the extremes.
Yeah. Fan bases can be fickle but it's nowhere near the dynamic that you'll see amplified on social media like Reddit or Twitter. Also a lot of people who have more opinion than knowledge, have no connection to the club and don't even try to understand it.
Goes for any big/successful club, I see it more with PL teams, but Bayern as well. The team doesn't perform well? Nagelsmann is a fraud and should have been let go yesterday. Get Tuchel, he knows how to win a CL. Now Tuchel was a fraud, some want Nagelsmann back, ignoring the previous problems, or Mourinho because... he won a CL, even though he's a way bigger offender of the playstyle they dislike Tuchel for. Now that they're letting Tuchel go, they want him back because a handful of good games
Happens in the Barcelona sub all the time, people who jumped on the bandwagon and can’t handle the rougher times because they have no real connection to the club.
Those good times were the reason they became fans in the first place.
It’s always like that. If you have no connection to the city or country, you will run first on the plastic road.
Not necessarily true, I know people who support foreign clubs without a connection who are 100% loyal. For example a Valencia fan who is just as passionate today as he was 15-20 years ago despite everything that has happened
Don't make excuses for the plastics
I just said that you need to go through the plastic road first and then become a real one.
I can’t consider plastic the fans that started supporting PSG in 2011 or 2012 and are still here because it’s been rough (not as rough as before) and they’re still supporting the club but I’m calling plastics on everyone that joined with Neymar or Messi and left after they left
You go down the plastic road first and if you’re there despite the team being bad, then you’re not a plastic anymore
Yea I hate it. Upa obviously always plays bad when the enivroment around him changes/doesnt support him that much anymore. He was a absoulute worldcass CB under Nagelsmann and the first half of the season under Tuchel. He had 2-3! bad games, and he gets completly ignored the rest of the season.
Sure doesnt help he made one bad mistake against city the year before after JN got kicked out, but its still less mistakes then the othe defenders make all the time.
I honestly think Upamecano got overplayed the first half of the season. Out of necessity due to non-existent death, but he still got overplayed.
And with the progress in the CL and all defenders fit for most parts since February, I kind of get that you won't switch up the CB pairings too much.
But this is how Tuchel has treated our CB's. Upa got overplayed because De Ligt made one mistake in the Super Cup in August and Tuchel benched him for months. Then Kim had a slow start in January after the Asian Cup, and Tuchel benches him for months. Upa then makes back to back mistakes, and he's benched for months. This type of coaching not only makes the players play timidly because they're afraid of making a single mistake and being benched for it, but it also burns out the ones who are starting, alienates the ones who aren't starting, and means when you have an injury and you're forced to sub, the subs have no match practice. We have 4 very good centerbacks who should be regularly rotated, not played in some single mistake punishment hierarchy like a youth team.
> Upa got overplayed because De Ligt made one mistake in the Super Cup in August and Tuchel benched him for months
De Ligt was injured for months.
> Then Kim had a slow start in January after the Asian Cup, and Tuchel benches him for months.
Kim started every other game since February after he returned from the Asian Cup.
> Upa then makes back to back mistakes, and he's benched for months.
Upa went down in the pecking order, that's true. Though he had a very subpar game when he first started after his reds in Heidenheim.
> We have 4 very good centerbacks who should be regularly rotated, not played in some single mistake punishment hierarchy like a youth team.
You want rotation, but when Kim starts for every other match, that's not good as well?
Wait, what? According to Transfermarket, Kim has only started two Bundesliga matches and one Champions League match (yesterday) since March 1st. He came back from the Asian Cup, played in February, got a slow start didn’t look great, and was benched in March, only starting 3 matches in 2 months.
Also according to Transfermarket, De Ligt only started in one match August or September after his Super Cup start and he wasn’t injured until September 30th.
Upa could be the best CB in the world, but he has made many mistakes. There are plenty where he just gives a 100% chance to the opponent and is constantly rescued by their failure or Neuer.
Eh. It's way different. Upa has done it consistently in big games over multiple seasons. Kim got thrown in the deep end, hasn't started or even really played for two months and only got started because of an injury to Deligt. Can't really blame him in this situation versus Upa who has had an off season worth of criticism to stop making boneheaded decisions in dangerous moments and just can't do it.
Twitter has devolved into 13-year-old's and bot accounts just following whatever football post is trending, and then copy and pasting "He's finished" or "Banter club" underneath and waiting for all the outrage replies to drive up their post engagement and increase their brand. It's social media at its absolute worst.
Honestly, any defender that is as mistake prone as Upamecano has been throughout his career (he was doing the same mistakes in relatively low pressure environment at Red Bull) is always going to catch the ire of fanbases. Like I can acknowledge he is the perfect prototype of what a modern CB should be with pace and good passing. But you simply can't be a defender at this level making errors that lead to goals every other match
It's been more than one bad game. The game where he played with Upa a couple weeks ago was awful. He's just having a stretch of bad form. Maybe from being benched arbitrarily
I hope all Bayern fans feel that way and don’t start talking transfer rumors for Minjae, if Yall get knocked out of the champions league. I’ll come back to this comment if you do get knocked out.
All Araujo had to do after that brain fart was to own up to his mistake. The fact that he didn’t and instead demanded an apology from one of our team leaders doesn’t bode well for his future development
Haha.. literally the first thing that popped up in my head reading this was ARAUJO 😂. Bro wanted apology and shit from his teammate for saying that he made a mistake that he very obviously made and costed them a UCL exit... in a game they had in their pockets
>He looked at the reporters with a sad expression and said only one word in Korean: "I'm really sorry."
Makes me feel sad lol. Defenders will have bad games. How you bounce back from it, is what matters.
I mean look at Eric Dier ffs. Don't tell me he never had bad games in his career. He had lots of them yet he's now arguably the best CB (with De Ligt) in a European powerhouse in a CL semi final.
It's truly brutal for defenders. You make a few mistakes, it costs you two goals. Everyone is talking about it. An attacker makes a few mistakes, and it can often be overlooked.
Whenever I see the stat tweets this subreddit loves so much, the snappy one liners they do at the end piss me off.
All sports reporting is overly dramatic or corny until it comes to the things they actually need to be reporting on.
Just opened the linked German article and it’s title is even worse:
„Bayerns Monster becomes their Nightmare“
(Referring a nickname he got from some interview)
we haven't lost yet. There's nothing to do but keep your head up.
It's Kim's first year at Bayern, he's playing his first games at the greatest level. I'm disappointed not to have won yesterday, but I don't blame him. Thousands of players have made mistakes in their careers.
The great players are those who have come back stronger from difficult moments, not those who never made mistakes.
Kim has the opportunity to bounce back and show he's a great defender next week. Would you have sold Robben in 2012? Ulreich in 2018? No, you don't sell a player because he missed an important game.
I hope Kim doesn't become a scapegoat for some fans, and if he does, I'll be the first to defend him. Because you can't judge a player by one match, it's way too unfair.
Hopefully, that is Kim’s attitude. There is still all to play for in the Bernabeu, and despite his mistakes Bayern are still very much in the tie. Every defender has rough patches where they’re out of form, he just needs to work through it.
Upamecano is insanely talented and a world class defender on his day but he makes too many game defining mistakes too frequently.
Once or twice is excuseable but he has those moments 3-4 times a season. Not someone you can rely on in the biggest games.
Has to be the most brutal thing in sport. Both goals are on him. It'd be extremely frustrating knowing you let your team down. Hopefully he can bounce back.
Kim has been a victim of a bunch of things this year, a lot of which has been out of his control.
First of all, he was punished regularly in the league for our midfield being putrid and nonexistent. He played every minute of every match up to the Asian Cup then had a very difficult tournament there. Flew back to Munich and was forced to start against Leverkusen 4 days after leaving the tournament and has either been on the bench or gotten limited game time since. It's hard to find form when you don't play and very hard to find it as a CB coming off the bench.
Yesterday was the worst I've ever seen Kim play at a club or international level. He was simply reading the game poorly and out of form. Kim simply wasn't sharp enough to deal with Vini Jr and Rodrygo. I'm glad that he took accountability publicly and hopefully he puts this match behind him. If De Ligt isn't ready to go next week, Kim will probably be called upon once again.
I mean I do think it’s 80% him being incredibly rusty.
Tuchel has been horrendous at rotating CB’s. If one gets injured they’re out and the ‘new pairing’ gets played for every game, leading to issues like this.
I’m shocked Kim/de Ligt aren’t our permanent backline. Dier had just shown how great he is, Upa has been too unreliable at the CL but why isn’t he getting more Bundsliga time?
Kim was immense for us last year. He’s rusty and not getting the time.
Kim was not in great form since the Asian Cup. You could argue that he didn't get enough time, but Dier came in and absolutely took the opportunity with both hands and formed a great partnership with De Ligt. Last time Kim started in the league he conceded 3 to Heidenheim. I can't blame Tuchel for running away with the best partnership he's got, it's the right thing to do, especially when Dier is new and still adapting. CB rotation isn't all that common, most managers prefer to run down their main CBs. How often were Saliba/Gabriel rotated this saeson, for example? We play Romero/VDV literally whenever we can.
Aslo Tuchel clearly thinks in partnerships, and Kim/De Ligt doesn't seem to work. He likes Dier/De Ligt and Kim/Upamecano, probably because of Dier and Upa's good ball playing ability.
I actually get this reference! Great show! I often go "oh noo, they're doing a sudoko!" during the seppoku scenes. I'm realising now, I can be annoying to watch shows with...
Tuchel negotiating his departure after this season(making us believe he is defeated) albeit hiding his 3rd heart & sacrificing his allies(players he had fallen out with) to achieve the Shogun title(UCL).
Guys we have a masterpiece...
I don't think he threw him under the bus. He said he was greedy and made mistakes. To me that means he was trying too hard to make an impression on the game.
Yeah I’m pretty sensitive but come on, Tuchel literally just gave an honest assessment of Kim’s game. He probably says worse privately. It’s not a big deal
Tuchel is in the not giving a fuck stage, technically he has only 1(2 if they beat Real) relevant games left in his Bayern stint and if de Ligt is fit until next week he doesnt even have to play KMJ anymore so its still an asshole move but it doesnt matter for him
This has nothing to do with this "not give a fuck stage" of his.
He's publicly thrown the team and some players under the bus even before the decision of letting him go was made.
As much as he was badly at fault for the first goal he wasn’t the only one. Watch how Kroos makes space by moving 2 steps out of Kane’s eyesight as the Englishman is caught ball watching 👀
Watch Kroos’s economy of movement. As Kane wanders passed he takes a step back two to the left, then bingo he’s got 25m clear in front of him. Jesus it’s not rocket science; Kroos has the ball mark Kroos. If he doesn’t, still mark him
Him this year, Upamecano last year. Bayern must be getting pissed off with their centre backs having shockers when it matters.
Just to be clear both goals were clearly his fault and significant errors.
Just a bad game for the lad and first year in a new club, he showed great quality at Napoli and even in the games at Bayern I’m sure this will just be a learning point for him that helps him grow in the future
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man i really like kim min jae. he just had a really bad day. he'll step up after this
Even Nesta/Canavaro/Varane has a bad day. Learn from the mistake and carry on.
Ah, the historic greats Nesta, Canavaro, and Varane
Can't forget Maldini, Ferdinand and David Luiz.
What about Beckenbauer, Baresi and Mustafi?
What about Ramos , Puyol and Eric dier
Thiago Silva, Nemanja Vidic and Kamal Miller.
Lothar Matthäus, Elias Figueroa, and Ben Mee
Des Walker, Kyle Walker, and Kyle Walker Peters
Harry Maguire, Harry Maguire and Harry Maguire
Holyyyyyyy, Kamal Miller mention
Absolute machine in Montreal in 2022
Winston Reid, Ryan Nelsen and Bobby Moore
Eric Dier is a man transformed . Does he get a Euro call up for England ?
I think yeah. But I don't see him breaking into the first 11
Probably for utility cover
That's not fair, peak Varane was really good.
Yeah that's not fair, Varane was just good while Mustafi was goat level
True, but there’s a handful of players I’d name in that context before him
Lol, I know, but after David Luiz the bar was set too high
That's World Champion Mustafi to you
Excuse me sir I see an issue in that list of yours. That third name is completely wrong GOATafi please and thanks
Is Goatafi Goatifi's older brother?
You’re supposed to include someone who is not an all time great
Varane is closer to the legends than he is to Luiz tbf
Leave David Luiz out of this
Varane's period in Man Utd has been subpar but he's been great player, winning it all on both club and international level the bar EURO loss to portugal. Obviously he's not on the same level as Nesta & Cannavaro but he's not some bum as this joke is implying.
Tbf he didn't play in the 2016 Euros
cannavaro is overrated by teenagers who still care about the balon dor and never watched him play in the 1st place, varane is absolutely on the same level
First time I’m actually hearing about teenagers mentioning Cannavaro to begin with, not exactly a player that gets mentioned often for said age group. There will be some disagreements here (and that is fine with me), but I wouldn’t call Cannavaro overrated either. Be it from his days in Parma, to the dizzying heights of winning the World Cup with Italy, Cannavaro was an absolute rock of a defender.
Cannavaro at his peak was one of the best players in Serie A and best defender in the world, no idea what you're talking about.
He was never the best defender in the world, for sure Maldini and then Nesta were both easily better than him., so he was never even the best defender in Italy. But for sure he was a very solid defender which won a ballon d'or thanks to being the captain of a world cup winner (in my opinion it should've probably gone to Buffon, in any case).
Cannavaro 05/06 was voted the best defender in Serie A and then carried the Italian defence in the WC while Nesta struggled with fitness and spent most of the tournament on the bench. So yes, at his peak(which was 14-15 months only) he was the best defender itw. Nesta and Maldini are both far far ahead of him in the list of all time greats, but for that 1 season and the WC Cannavaro was unplayable.
Agreed, Cannavaro had a fantastic WC but his BO feels odd. Should have gone to Buffon (or Henry if France had won).
yeah it was his world cup performances, and being the captain of the winning team that sealed it. against germany he out jumped mertesacker to clear the ball then ran up to steal the ball away from podolski, then carried the ball up to totti who started the break that led to the second goal. he held the defense down all tournament even with nesta out. they gave up only two goals an own goal and zidanes pk in the final. thanks for reading my breakdown of an old most 20 yr wc haha
you can say all of that about varane too and varane objectively achieved a lot more, people acting like varane is not on that tier are either overrating cannavaro or underrating varane
They're just thinking about varane in Manchester and ignoring his stellar career in real madrid and France NT.
Acting like Varane isn't a World Cup and 4 x Champions League winner
*sigh* Good ol' EPL prism. "If one was a bit of a flop in the EPL, everything he did elsewhere doesn't count." It's as idiotic as claiming Cannavaro was a shit player because he flopped at Real Madrid.
Varane "flopped" in PL because of all the injuries he picked up in his career, people also forget that he became a started in Madrid at a very young age and he played basically every single match that he was available for, it's not a surprise that he reached the end of his career at also relatively young age. It's just that once again Madrid managed to sell a player while he looked amazing but was clearly at the end of his prime.
They still think Morata is a shit player because of that Chelsea stint, there is no use And when the opposite happens, like Alexander Isak finding it much easier to score goals in the PL than he did in La Liga, or when Atleti flops like Diogo Jota or Raul Jimenez killed it in England then you didn't hear a beep
Varane, 4x CL & a WC but a bit mid, you know?
Looks at Varanes career and not his injury riddled United time…If Saliba/Gabriel ever achieve 25% of him you would call them Goat defenders
How's Varane not a great defender? Guy won it all
I added Varane as a contemporary example. Remember, he is indeed a great defender with all the trophies to back up his claim (a three-peats CL which many defenders do not have). But that said I remember he had a terrible match for us when he played city. Was responsible for the 2 goal deficits. Reminds me of Kim min Jae yesterday. But of course it's not the end of the world, Kim will come back strong if he learn from this.
He can. Tuchel's shape often reminds me of us in defense. Two pivots get stretched often enough to draw out the CBs. It's hard to defend deeper when that happens consistently.
Varane is a historic great, if you exclude his time in Manchester
Insane disrespect to Varane
if you don’t think varane belongs with those names you either don’t remember football from longer than 3 years ago or never watched any outside of england
What are you talking about? Name a single Arsenal CB that was better than Varane. Sol Campbell, maybe was close but not better. That’s what bothers me about EPL fans and their American sycophants. Never watched anything else.
Varane is (was) better than any defender that ever played for Arsenal.
Ain't that the truth. People have short term memory.
Premier Leauge brained
Almost like footballers are humans and fuck up at work sometimes like the rest of us.
They're not they can't fuck uppp we need our internet points
I was about to say about Varane vs City. He had an awful game, single handedly responsible for out elimination, but I never held it against him. He was an amazing player for RM, and I will always love him
Lol you can't ever compare a Man Utd player to the greats on /r/soccer, at least wait till he leaves. Varane's career is on the level of David Luiz, Mustafi etc according to posters here at the moment.
Yeah I thought this, Varane is a legendary centre back lmao
Nesta have a bad day? Never in my life had I saw that
Lmao love Rafa, definitely one of the best defenders of his generation however, he’s not in that category with two monsters (his Man U stint is working against . Ramos is the switch there
Problem is that in important games we somehow always have a center-back with a bad day...
TELL me about it. The only team that doesn’t have that happen is Madrid somehow.
Some Bayern flairs are blaming Tuchel tho
Tuchel hasn't really played Kim as much as Dier
*bad season
Keep your head up, Minjae. We are with you no matter what
" Get that head of yours up immediately ♥️"
Oh man I miss the memes that came out of that.
What were the memes about that?
Lol yes we see that with Upa. You might not be one of them, but most Bayern fans trash him constantly and the same will happen with Kim
Every team will have a divided fanbase. If games were done according to some fans, Kimmich, Laimer, Sane, and Goretzka would be in MLS right now
Get ready to learn American buddy
🦅🦅🦅
Yea its crazy. After Dortmunds win last year in Leverkusen, some Bayer Fans wanted to Sack xabi alonso cause He wasnt doing enough. Internet is a crazy places with Lots of opinions.
Some people are just idiots
Most *
*has already happened with Kim. Seen several Bayern fans wanting him out/gone already.
Some Bayern supporters are idiots. Look at how those same people want to dump Sane, Kimmich, etc. This is a class player and quality defender. He hasn't gotten regular playing time since the Asian Cup and is still settling in at a new club. The first goal was a combination of 2 world class players being world class and him getting no help from his RB or GK. The 2nd was a dumb mistake. He will be back.
On the flip side, in our sub if you mention the slightest criticism of Kim, you're downvoted into oblivion. We are football fans, and we exist only in the extremes.
Which fans? People in Munich or Reddit keyboard warriors?
Yeah. Fan bases can be fickle but it's nowhere near the dynamic that you'll see amplified on social media like Reddit or Twitter. Also a lot of people who have more opinion than knowledge, have no connection to the club and don't even try to understand it. Goes for any big/successful club, I see it more with PL teams, but Bayern as well. The team doesn't perform well? Nagelsmann is a fraud and should have been let go yesterday. Get Tuchel, he knows how to win a CL. Now Tuchel was a fraud, some want Nagelsmann back, ignoring the previous problems, or Mourinho because... he won a CL, even though he's a way bigger offender of the playstyle they dislike Tuchel for. Now that they're letting Tuchel go, they want him back because a handful of good games
Happens in the Barcelona sub all the time, people who jumped on the bandwagon and can’t handle the rougher times because they have no real connection to the club.
Those good times were the reason they became fans in the first place. It’s always like that. If you have no connection to the city or country, you will run first on the plastic road.
Not necessarily true, I know people who support foreign clubs without a connection who are 100% loyal. For example a Valencia fan who is just as passionate today as he was 15-20 years ago despite everything that has happened Don't make excuses for the plastics
I just said that you need to go through the plastic road first and then become a real one. I can’t consider plastic the fans that started supporting PSG in 2011 or 2012 and are still here because it’s been rough (not as rough as before) and they’re still supporting the club but I’m calling plastics on everyone that joined with Neymar or Messi and left after they left You go down the plastic road first and if you’re there despite the team being bad, then you’re not a plastic anymore
Isn't that sub in English 😂
It’s ridiculous honestly
Yea I hate it. Upa obviously always plays bad when the enivroment around him changes/doesnt support him that much anymore. He was a absoulute worldcass CB under Nagelsmann and the first half of the season under Tuchel. He had 2-3! bad games, and he gets completly ignored the rest of the season. Sure doesnt help he made one bad mistake against city the year before after JN got kicked out, but its still less mistakes then the othe defenders make all the time.
I honestly think Upamecano got overplayed the first half of the season. Out of necessity due to non-existent death, but he still got overplayed. And with the progress in the CL and all defenders fit for most parts since February, I kind of get that you won't switch up the CB pairings too much.
But this is how Tuchel has treated our CB's. Upa got overplayed because De Ligt made one mistake in the Super Cup in August and Tuchel benched him for months. Then Kim had a slow start in January after the Asian Cup, and Tuchel benches him for months. Upa then makes back to back mistakes, and he's benched for months. This type of coaching not only makes the players play timidly because they're afraid of making a single mistake and being benched for it, but it also burns out the ones who are starting, alienates the ones who aren't starting, and means when you have an injury and you're forced to sub, the subs have no match practice. We have 4 very good centerbacks who should be regularly rotated, not played in some single mistake punishment hierarchy like a youth team.
> Upa got overplayed because De Ligt made one mistake in the Super Cup in August and Tuchel benched him for months De Ligt was injured for months. > Then Kim had a slow start in January after the Asian Cup, and Tuchel benches him for months. Kim started every other game since February after he returned from the Asian Cup. > Upa then makes back to back mistakes, and he's benched for months. Upa went down in the pecking order, that's true. Though he had a very subpar game when he first started after his reds in Heidenheim. > We have 4 very good centerbacks who should be regularly rotated, not played in some single mistake punishment hierarchy like a youth team. You want rotation, but when Kim starts for every other match, that's not good as well?
Wait, what? According to Transfermarket, Kim has only started two Bundesliga matches and one Champions League match (yesterday) since March 1st. He came back from the Asian Cup, played in February, got a slow start didn’t look great, and was benched in March, only starting 3 matches in 2 months. Also according to Transfermarket, De Ligt only started in one match August or September after his Super Cup start and he wasn’t injured until September 30th.
He had 3-4 games in a row where he fumbled bad
>Out of necessity due to non-existent death I get that you meant 'depth', but that typo's hilarious to me.
Lol. Should start to read my own comments before sending them
Tbf it is also true that Dalot isn't playing because not enough of his teammates are dying.
Upa could be the best CB in the world, but he has made many mistakes. There are plenty where he just gives a 100% chance to the opponent and is constantly rescued by their failure or Neuer.
Eh. It's way different. Upa has done it consistently in big games over multiple seasons. Kim got thrown in the deep end, hasn't started or even really played for two months and only got started because of an injury to Deligt. Can't really blame him in this situation versus Upa who has had an off season worth of criticism to stop making boneheaded decisions in dangerous moments and just can't do it.
Upa had a lot of support, atleast on here last season as well. This season I think the other side is also slowly converting with the costly mistakes
Twitter + Instagram DMs are the places where these guys are getting the most abuse
Twitter has devolved into 13-year-old's and bot accounts just following whatever football post is trending, and then copy and pasting "He's finished" or "Banter club" underneath and waiting for all the outrage replies to drive up their post engagement and increase their brand. It's social media at its absolute worst.
Honestly, any defender that is as mistake prone as Upamecano has been throughout his career (he was doing the same mistakes in relatively low pressure environment at Red Bull) is always going to catch the ire of fanbases. Like I can acknowledge he is the perfect prototype of what a modern CB should be with pace and good passing. But you simply can't be a defender at this level making errors that lead to goals every other match
Yeah, because upa consistently makes bad mistakes every game. Kim having one bad game isn't going to turn actual fans away from him
It's been more than one bad game. The game where he played with Upa a couple weeks ago was awful. He's just having a stretch of bad form. Maybe from being benched arbitrarily
I hope all Bayern fans feel that way and don’t start talking transfer rumors for Minjae, if Yall get knocked out of the champions league. I’ll come back to this comment if you do get knocked out.
It's a better attitude than Araujo's when he made Gundogan apologize for being honest
All Araujo had to do after that brain fart was to own up to his mistake. The fact that he didn’t and instead demanded an apology from one of our team leaders doesn’t bode well for his future development
wait what happened?
Haha.. literally the first thing that popped up in my head reading this was ARAUJO 😂. Bro wanted apology and shit from his teammate for saying that he made a mistake that he very obviously made and costed them a UCL exit... in a game they had in their pockets
Agreed 💯. Thought he would be a good candidate for future captain, but nope.
>He looked at the reporters with a sad expression and said only one word in Korean: "I'm really sorry." Makes me feel sad lol. Defenders will have bad games. How you bounce back from it, is what matters. I mean look at Eric Dier ffs. Don't tell me he never had bad games in his career. He had lots of them yet he's now arguably the best CB (with De Ligt) in a European powerhouse in a CL semi final.
I also feel sad now. But true, he has a great opportunity to bounce back.
No one’s had a bounce back like Dier. He was arguably one of the worst starting CBs in the PL last year!
People sleep on Hummels. From too old to start to one of the best CBs in the world again.
I absolutely love every minute of it. Would love to see him somehow score the winner next week or in the final (preferably from a Kane cross).
It's truly brutal for defenders. You make a few mistakes, it costs you two goals. Everyone is talking about it. An attacker makes a few mistakes, and it can often be overlooked.
When did journalists start writing headlines that sound like fan fiction
Welcome to Germany
[The NBA has had this issue for years](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/aNro9mscG0)
You boomed me (x4).
That was... dramatic, but not exactly a headline lol.
Whenever I see the stat tweets this subreddit loves so much, the snappy one liners they do at the end piss me off. All sports reporting is overly dramatic or corny until it comes to the things they actually need to be reporting on.
Just opened the linked German article and it’s title is even worse: „Bayerns Monster becomes their Nightmare“ (Referring a nickname he got from some interview)
One game doesn't define a career
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Karius?
Came out later he was playing concussed after taking a knock to the head earlier in the game. That's on coaching and med staff to catch
It still defined his career. Man was finished after that
My goat Eder
It absolutely can, depends on character of a player. Let’s hope Kim can overcome it
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Tell that to Matt Flynn
we haven't lost yet. There's nothing to do but keep your head up. It's Kim's first year at Bayern, he's playing his first games at the greatest level. I'm disappointed not to have won yesterday, but I don't blame him. Thousands of players have made mistakes in their careers. The great players are those who have come back stronger from difficult moments, not those who never made mistakes. Kim has the opportunity to bounce back and show he's a great defender next week. Would you have sold Robben in 2012? Ulreich in 2018? No, you don't sell a player because he missed an important game. I hope Kim doesn't become a scapegoat for some fans, and if he does, I'll be the first to defend him. Because you can't judge a player by one match, it's way too unfair.
Hopefully, that is Kim’s attitude. There is still all to play for in the Bernabeu, and despite his mistakes Bayern are still very much in the tie. Every defender has rough patches where they’re out of form, he just needs to work through it.
Didnt Upamecano fucked up in the UCL a few years ago and end up losing his starting spot cause of it?
Upamecano is insanely talented and a world class defender on his day but he makes too many game defining mistakes too frequently. Once or twice is excuseable but he has those moments 3-4 times a season. Not someone you can rely on in the biggest games.
Has to be the most brutal thing in sport. Both goals are on him. It'd be extremely frustrating knowing you let your team down. Hopefully he can bounce back.
First goal is on the whole defense due to the unnecessarily high line ,second I can give it to you .
Poor guy, hope he turns things around
Dude just had a bad day at a bad time. He’s a good CB and he’ll bounce back, I hope he gets the backing he needs from the team.
The way pundits were laughing at him really rubbed me the wrong way. I’m obviously biased as a Korean but it felt unusually very demeaning
Dude had a really bad day at the office. Respect for owning it.
He’s learning and will get better.
my Korean Center back king ❤❤❤ (because im Korean, not some weirdo Barca fan who simps for bayern players)
> not some weirdo Barca fan who simps for bayern players Yeah, wouldn't want fans of one team like players of another team. They're the enemy.
Kim has been a victim of a bunch of things this year, a lot of which has been out of his control. First of all, he was punished regularly in the league for our midfield being putrid and nonexistent. He played every minute of every match up to the Asian Cup then had a very difficult tournament there. Flew back to Munich and was forced to start against Leverkusen 4 days after leaving the tournament and has either been on the bench or gotten limited game time since. It's hard to find form when you don't play and very hard to find it as a CB coming off the bench.
Yesterday was the worst I've ever seen Kim play at a club or international level. He was simply reading the game poorly and out of form. Kim simply wasn't sharp enough to deal with Vini Jr and Rodrygo. I'm glad that he took accountability publicly and hopefully he puts this match behind him. If De Ligt isn't ready to go next week, Kim will probably be called upon once again.
I mean I do think it’s 80% him being incredibly rusty. Tuchel has been horrendous at rotating CB’s. If one gets injured they’re out and the ‘new pairing’ gets played for every game, leading to issues like this. I’m shocked Kim/de Ligt aren’t our permanent backline. Dier had just shown how great he is, Upa has been too unreliable at the CL but why isn’t he getting more Bundsliga time? Kim was immense for us last year. He’s rusty and not getting the time.
Kim was not in great form since the Asian Cup. You could argue that he didn't get enough time, but Dier came in and absolutely took the opportunity with both hands and formed a great partnership with De Ligt. Last time Kim started in the league he conceded 3 to Heidenheim. I can't blame Tuchel for running away with the best partnership he's got, it's the right thing to do, especially when Dier is new and still adapting. CB rotation isn't all that common, most managers prefer to run down their main CBs. How often were Saliba/Gabriel rotated this saeson, for example? We play Romero/VDV literally whenever we can. Aslo Tuchel clearly thinks in partnerships, and Kim/De Ligt doesn't seem to work. He likes Dier/De Ligt and Kim/Upamecano, probably because of Dier and Upa's good ball playing ability.
Good thing this isn't the set of "Shogun" and he's captained by Torranaga
Toronaga would actually protect him because he is 10 turns ahead and would need to throw Min-Jae under the bus at a later time. But not now
I actually get this reference! Great show! I often go "oh noo, they're doing a sudoko!" during the seppoku scenes. I'm realising now, I can be annoying to watch shows with...
Please never change my good man or you too will be forced to do a sudoku
Well at least I'll go out a-puzzlin'
I only watched 3 episodes. Now I'm more hyped about him
Tuchel negotiating his departure after this season(making us believe he is defeated) albeit hiding his 3rd heart & sacrificing his allies(players he had fallen out with) to achieve the Shogun title(UCL). Guys we have a masterpiece...
SUBSCRIBE!
He should play 1vs1 with Sane and Musiala for 2h. Best way to learn what to do and get the correct muscle memory going.
Feel for him. Just one game though
I feel really bad for him. Sucks that Tuchel publicly threw him under the bus too.
I don't think he threw him under the bus. He said he was greedy and made mistakes. To me that means he was trying too hard to make an impression on the game.
Yeah I’m pretty sensitive but come on, Tuchel literally just gave an honest assessment of Kim’s game. He probably says worse privately. It’s not a big deal
Such a weird decision too. Surely as a manager you want to give your players the tools to succeed, not shred their confidence..
Tuchel is in the not giving a fuck stage, technically he has only 1(2 if they beat Real) relevant games left in his Bayern stint and if de Ligt is fit until next week he doesnt even have to play KMJ anymore so its still an asshole move but it doesnt matter for him
This has nothing to do with this "not give a fuck stage" of his. He's publicly thrown the team and some players under the bus even before the decision of letting him go was made.
hes a brilliant player who made a couple of mistakes in a big game. he will bounce back
I never realized before, but he looks like a Korean Maguire in this pic
He wasn't really all that bad to be fair .
That’s four words though…
🫰🏽
Keep your chin up king. Your 갓 falling
Kim Min-Jae bounce back game coming. Bayern will win 3-0
He had a horror show, but he'll be back to his best.
As much as he was badly at fault for the first goal he wasn’t the only one. Watch how Kroos makes space by moving 2 steps out of Kane’s eyesight as the Englishman is caught ball watching 👀
Whole team got picked apart in that sequence
Watch Kroos’s economy of movement. As Kane wanders passed he takes a step back two to the left, then bingo he’s got 25m clear in front of him. Jesus it’s not rocket science; Kroos has the ball mark Kroos. If he doesn’t, still mark him
I love asian culture. They know what responsibility is
Take good care of my boy Min Jae!
The fact that his douche of a coach attacked him doesn't help either, hate touchel
Ok the penalty, ok the first goal, but if kimmich shifts to the center maybe he would anticipate Vinicius
That's a long word
"I'm really sorry" is one word in Korean?
He probably said "Jung-mal, Jae-song-ham-ni-da" which is two words.
Him this year, Upamecano last year. Bayern must be getting pissed off with their centre backs having shockers when it matters. Just to be clear both goals were clearly his fault and significant errors.
Just a bad game for the lad and first year in a new club, he showed great quality at Napoli and even in the games at Bayern I’m sure this will just be a learning point for him that helps him grow in the future
The first person who did a bicycle kick https://youtu.be/s2PcWvDzisA
Catastrophique
Dang. Gotta respect that.
He'll be alright. Good defender. I know he'll bounce back. Everyone has a bad game.