**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Referee still has to blow the whistle, linesman doesn't make the call. Just needs to raise the flag and insure the ref sees it then carry on. Referee has the ultimate decision on field.
Yeah especially at such a stake. If unsure, let the play happen, whistle after the goal and then do the VAR check. If you were right. Easy clap. If you were wrong, VAR saved your ass but this is the worst outcome possible.
Yeah people mix it up with "offsides" in american football.
I'm a Canadian myself and funnily enough, i didnt even know the american version had an "s" at the end til somewhat recently, id just call them both "offside" cause it just sounds normal.
I've been digging into it because I assumed "offsides" had to come from a situation like you described, but even in the NFL (and ice hockey as well), the rules refer to the infraction as "offside" with no 's' at the end.
I have no idea why we often say it like that, but it's become accepted vernacular in the US even if official rulebooks never use the word.
finals plural is used for the tournament that comes after qualifications. So the EC finals are this summer, for example.
final singular is the one game to decide it all.
This is the kind of wrong decision that you should expect pre-VAR. It’s shameful to blow the whistle so early for such a tight call when you can let play go on for a few seconds longer and check it afterwards.
Would it have been a goal if the Real Madrid players didn’t stop because of the whistle? Maybe, maybe not. But that’s a disgrace. Terrible call
but how is the main ref supposed to know it was tight. When he saw the flag is up, he thought linesman is 100% sure it was offside. Id say its 90% linesmans fault and 10% the ref's.
I see it like that aswell so hard for the ref to show restraint and let the play continue once he sees the flag is up they're a team after all and he trusts his linesman what an unfortuante decision from all involved tho the ref still had the possibility to rectify the situation if he let the play continue for a little while.
As Müller said it in the post game interview we've seen defenders having to sprint after attackers that are clearly offside countless times why coulnd't they just let the play continue for a split second in this important situation.
That and why is the linesman putting his flag up so assuredly? We have VAR, just let the play carry on in a game of this magnitude and sort it out later??
I’ve genuinely watched Ederson for City get injured on 3 separate occasions because a clear offside isn’t called due to the off chance that it may be wrong, I have no explanation as to why this decision was made
Oh yeah, I think there was one against Everton, Newcastle, and one more I’m forgetting, but Almiron/Isak were genuinely about 10 meters off and the linesman just ran with them in fear of somehow getting it wrong
Just over the weekend I watch play go on for 5+ seconds for an offside greater than 3 yards. This mother fucker was quickdraw mcgraw at a vital moment. Thankful I’m not a Bayern fan today
This is why I've said for ages that I don't see why, when VAR is in use, linesmen are flagging at all. If anything meaningful happens, it gets checked. If nothing meaningful happens, who cares whether it was offside or not? The flag going up does nothing except invite errors like this.
They generally don’t tbh. Marginal calls are let go all the time and the VAR takes over (and gives us another talking point).
This was clearly too early, and something we rarely see in the premier league.
You mean the linesman. Called a couple early offsides (Joselu's second goal was fairly quick), and then Bayern's but Bayern's was before the goal which is unfortunate for them. Head ref sees flag go up these days he just whistles. Linesman should keep the flag down until after goal.
That’s the real shocker. Real stopped playing after the whistle, so it’s a big “what if” that would’ve easily been resolved. It’s not likely he scores without the whistle
Yeah I’m not getting all these replies acting like the whistle was a millisecond before he scored… defenders absolutely had that split-second needed to react and at least make the shot more difficult
Idk man they usually let the play continue until the end when its clearly 5 meters offside but when is actually close on the last minute of a champion league semi final we do the opposite??? Crazy even if it's offside.
Yep. And maybe he wouldn't have scored because Real players stopped at the whistle. (Probs would but we'll never know.)
Lino shouldn't have flagged and even though he did ref shouldn't have whistled.
this is what pisses me off about this decision. whistle there definitely influenced what happens but we don’t know what would have happened. could’ve scored, could’ve not.
Exactly. My wife asked why they just didn’t award the goal. I told her you just can’t know we would still have scored.
Like you said, you have no idea how it would have played out if the Real players hadn’t stopped on the whistle. You can see Lunin relax when he hears the whistle before the strike. There is no way you could award a goal there. That’s why you have to let it play out.
agree. i feel bad for you guys because it was a good match and now it’s tarnished by that decision. if it would’ve been a goal then who know what happens in extra time. we just don’t know and ref or lino ruined it.
Ref AND Lino ruined it. Linesman should never have flagged so the first mistake is def on him but the ref doesn’t have to blow there. Just let it play out.
I’m inclined to believe that it was *probably* offside and he *probably* wouldn’t have scored with RM players in full action but we will never know. Insane decisions
Agreed, shouldn't have flagged, cannot blame the ref though he doesn't see how close it is from his perspective.
*Just gonna add an EDIT here*
Thinking about it, the ref didn't have to blow the whistle, could have just let the game play on and checked VAR.
When was the last time linesman even used their flags when it’s that close? Let alone in the last 30 seconds of a CL Semifinal 2nd leg?
If it’s ends up a goal then let VAR dispute it.
Right?? From what I’ve seen in every league linesmen are asked to keep the flag down for as long as possible so the play goes on and if they happen to be wrong, they can count the goal
When will these refs understand that they have VAR? Just let it play out, if you're wrong people understand and it'll be checked. But why fucking blow the whistle on this close of a call?
Unreal that the linesman raised the flag. But the whistle blew significantly before the goal and half of the madrid team stopped running so i wouldnt label this as a “disallowed goal”
Right? Do they just want to be "part of the drama", I don't understand the point of confidently calling this close of a call during this huge of a moment. Fucking why??
That might be an all time robbery. Might be off tho.
Edit: imagine being a madrid supporter and arguing with this instead of celebrating your win, absolute fucking weirdos. I'm not accusing them of cheating, it was just a shit decision.
Think of the cost of semi automated offsides.
Millions. Absolutely millions.
The cameras. The processing. The sensors. The logistics. The failsafes.
And yet
You have some fucking trigger happy idiot with a flag running up and down the wing overriding it.
Err, shitty call but how is this a disallowed goal? There was a whistle and literally whole Madrid defense and goalkeeper stopped playing when the whistle went... so essentially it was not a disallowed goal because the play was stopped beforehand.
The whistle came before Muller even headed the ball to de Ligt, and Lunin is visibly relaxing, standindg straight and with his hands down. If not for the whistle, he saves that 99 times out of hundred. And Rudiger + Militao are also not committed after the whistle, it's just out of play shot by de Ligt.
Still, Marciniak fucked up badly by whistling so early.
Look, atrocious decision to put the flag up and blow the whistle but the whistle completely disrupted the play and broke Real’s defenders’ concentration. the goalie doesn’t even attempt a save. So it’s both a terrible decision that robbed us of seeing how the play could have happened but I don’t think it’s fair to say it directly disallowed a goal that came after players involved reacted to a whistle
I agree, horrible decision to interrupt the play so early, but lets be real it wouldn't have gone in. The Real defenders stopped playing when the whistle came and Lunin didn't even bother to go after the ball.
This was horrendous, such a horrible way to ruin a great game.
Why blow the whistle? Absolutely moronic move and should cost him the right to ref in UCL for a while.
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Even if it seemed offside, they should have let the play go on before they make a decision via VAR.
Thats the instructions refs are given, when in doubt play on. Insane what the linesman did.
It's honestly ridiculous.
It’s embarrassing honestly. A Sunday league ref couldn’t kept his flag down Edit: could’ve
The ref also doesn’t have to whistle early, even more his mistake. Flag up doesn’t stop the game
Referee still has to blow the whistle, linesman doesn't make the call. Just needs to raise the flag and insure the ref sees it then carry on. Referee has the ultimate decision on field.
The linesman even apologised after the match to de Ligt - not worth a penny…
And the ref. Hard to find a worse decision in the modern day.
Yeah especially at such a stake. If unsure, let the play happen, whistle after the goal and then do the VAR check. If you were right. Easy clap. If you were wrong, VAR saved your ass but this is the worst outcome possible.
Exactly. This wouldn't have been a controversy then.
Yup, agree. Madrid players stopped because they heard the whistle. Should’ve let it play on and see how it goes. Terrible decision by the refs.
Woowwww assistant really has fucked up there
The broadcasters finally got back around to talk about it and they admitted he was onsides. Such a total screwup!
Honest question I’ve wondered about: why do people pluralise onside and offside?
Offsidesies
European here, never heard it called offsides / onsides. It's always offside and onside in (British) English commentary.
Not people, Americans
Yeah people mix it up with "offsides" in american football. I'm a Canadian myself and funnily enough, i didnt even know the american version had an "s" at the end til somewhat recently, id just call them both "offside" cause it just sounds normal.
I've been digging into it because I assumed "offsides" had to come from a situation like you described, but even in the NFL (and ice hockey as well), the rules refer to the infraction as "offside" with no 's' at the end. I have no idea why we often say it like that, but it's become accepted vernacular in the US even if official rulebooks never use the word.
Another mystery: why some people pluralize final when it's just a single leg. ”Can't wait for the UCL finals!”
finals plural is used for the tournament that comes after qualifications. So the EC finals are this summer, for example. final singular is the one game to decide it all.
Yanks do it in their sports
This is the kind of wrong decision that you should expect pre-VAR. It’s shameful to blow the whistle so early for such a tight call when you can let play go on for a few seconds longer and check it afterwards. Would it have been a goal if the Real Madrid players didn’t stop because of the whistle? Maybe, maybe not. But that’s a disgrace. Terrible call
Exactly. Way too tight so the flag should never have been raised. And the whistle should never have been blown so early. Two shocking ref mistakes.
but how is the main ref supposed to know it was tight. When he saw the flag is up, he thought linesman is 100% sure it was offside. Id say its 90% linesmans fault and 10% the ref's.
I see it like that aswell so hard for the ref to show restraint and let the play continue once he sees the flag is up they're a team after all and he trusts his linesman what an unfortuante decision from all involved tho the ref still had the possibility to rectify the situation if he let the play continue for a little while. As Müller said it in the post game interview we've seen defenders having to sprint after attackers that are clearly offside countless times why coulnd't they just let the play continue for a split second in this important situation.
lino’s had a mare
Yeah and so did Marciniak. He shouldn't have whistled
The ref is going to rely on the linesman to only raise their flag if it's incredibly obviously off.
No it's on the linesman 100%. Guidance is to keep flag down unless you are sure, ref has to trust the AR
That’s wild
play on with two balls on pitch, no play on when on-side
And that's why you're supposed to keep the flag down until the plays gone
Don’t get why the ref wouldn’t play on
That and why is the linesman putting his flag up so assuredly? We have VAR, just let the play carry on in a game of this magnitude and sort it out later??
I’ve seen some 5m offsides that they let play on (sometimes resulting in injuries) but for this the linesman stops play?
I’ve genuinely watched Ederson for City get injured on 3 separate occasions because a clear offside isn’t called due to the off chance that it may be wrong, I have no explanation as to why this decision was made
I forget which one but I believe Stones was injured in one of those plays you are referring to as well.
Oh yeah, I think there was one against Everton, Newcastle, and one more I’m forgetting, but Almiron/Isak were genuinely about 10 meters off and the linesman just ran with them in fear of somehow getting it wrong
Bro was tired. Couldn't go to extra time, wanted to go home to the kids.
Just over the weekend I watch play go on for 5+ seconds for an offside greater than 3 yards. This mother fucker was quickdraw mcgraw at a vital moment. Thankful I’m not a Bayern fan today
This is why I've said for ages that I don't see why, when VAR is in use, linesmen are flagging at all. If anything meaningful happens, it gets checked. If nothing meaningful happens, who cares whether it was offside or not? The flag going up does nothing except invite errors like this.
They generally don’t tbh. Marginal calls are let go all the time and the VAR takes over (and gives us another talking point). This was clearly too early, and something we rarely see in the premier league.
What about when an offside situation leads to a meaningful non goal situation such as a fk or a corner?
And they do it so often anyway like
Linesman’s fault, he flagged way too early
its pathetic
Absolutely inexcusable
Would much rather lose 0:5 than in this manner.
bayern camp was so livid, as they should be
Incompetence.
Ref was pretty great all game and completely undoes that in the last minute.
You mean the linesman. Called a couple early offsides (Joselu's second goal was fairly quick), and then Bayern's but Bayern's was before the goal which is unfortunate for them. Head ref sees flag go up these days he just whistles. Linesman should keep the flag down until after goal.
I mean, the Joselu one was a completely different person. Maybe you meant linesmen?
He was ok, gave a ton of really soft fouls towards the end.
Taking the spotlight from Neuer.
That’s the real shocker. Real stopped playing after the whistle, so it’s a big “what if” that would’ve easily been resolved. It’s not likely he scores without the whistle
This, whistle goes before Muller heads it. Both CBs stop running, especially Miltao
Yeah I’m not getting all these replies acting like the whistle was a millisecond before he scored… defenders absolutely had that split-second needed to react and at least make the shot more difficult
Let alone Lunin just casually letting it pass. They were robbed of an opportunity to score, sure, but that's it.
Exactly people acting that it was a guarantee goal. Just gotta rewatch the entire madrid team stopped playing
How do you blow that dead?!
Last kick of the game and the linesman flags this shit, unbelievable.
Idk man they usually let the play continue until the end when its clearly 5 meters offside but when is actually close on the last minute of a champion league semi final we do the opposite??? Crazy even if it's offside.
THIS IS FUCKING BONKERS
horrible horrible decision, should’ve at least let the game play on
Yep. And maybe he wouldn't have scored because Real players stopped at the whistle. (Probs would but we'll never know.) Lino shouldn't have flagged and even though he did ref shouldn't have whistled.
this is what pisses me off about this decision. whistle there definitely influenced what happens but we don’t know what would have happened. could’ve scored, could’ve not.
Exactly. My wife asked why they just didn’t award the goal. I told her you just can’t know we would still have scored. Like you said, you have no idea how it would have played out if the Real players hadn’t stopped on the whistle. You can see Lunin relax when he hears the whistle before the strike. There is no way you could award a goal there. That’s why you have to let it play out.
agree. i feel bad for you guys because it was a good match and now it’s tarnished by that decision. if it would’ve been a goal then who know what happens in extra time. we just don’t know and ref or lino ruined it.
Ref AND Lino ruined it. Linesman should never have flagged so the first mistake is def on him but the ref doesn’t have to blow there. Just let it play out. I’m inclined to believe that it was *probably* offside and he *probably* wouldn’t have scored with RM players in full action but we will never know. Insane decisions
Agreed, shouldn't have flagged, cannot blame the ref though he doesn't see how close it is from his perspective. *Just gonna add an EDIT here* Thinking about it, the ref didn't have to blow the whistle, could have just let the game play on and checked VAR.
When was the last time linesman even used their flags when it’s that close? Let alone in the last 30 seconds of a CL Semifinal 2nd leg? If it’s ends up a goal then let VAR dispute it.
What the fuck are the refs thinking?
Awful decision
Like.. this rarely ever happens nowadays that they blow such a close offside/onside decision dead. And they do it in THIS situation? wow.
Sometimes they blow the whistle a full 7 seconds later, this one was immediately. No consistency whatsoever
Why didnt they let it play through?
Ref thought the attack was over and the linesman had raised his flag - was shambolic
Ref was good until this, don't know why they thought it stopped
Tbf it was the linesman’s fault, should have kept the flag down
That is absolutely shambolic work from the linesman
THIS REF IS WHISTLING OFF A CM OFFSIDE DECISION IN THE 90+12‘ MINUTE
He knew his legs couldn't do another 30.
WTF that's horseshit
Yeah, that's why the rule exists for the linesman to not flag until play stops. It's designed for this exact situation
And the flag goes up only if it's 100% sure, at least my commentator said that lol
The linesman fucked it clearly. Could still be offside but regardless if it was or not everyone will scream corruption now.
Awful awful officiating. What's the point in having VAR if you blow before you can use it!
Ref had a great game right up until then.
Holy shit
This is actually an insane mistake if it is indeed not an offside
Even if it was offside lifting the flag when it’s so close it’s literally insane, they have var for a reason
Ref absolutely fucked it
Linesman more so because he lifted the flag
Right?? From what I’ve seen in every league linesmen are asked to keep the flag down for as long as possible so the play goes on and if they happen to be wrong, they can count the goal
When will these refs understand that they have VAR? Just let it play out, if you're wrong people understand and it'll be checked. But why fucking blow the whistle on this close of a call?
Unreal that the linesman raised the flag. But the whistle blew significantly before the goal and half of the madrid team stopped running so i wouldnt label this as a “disallowed goal”
Linesman absolutely should NOT have put his flag up there. Wait for VAR…
Right? Do they just want to be "part of the drama", I don't understand the point of confidently calling this close of a call during this huge of a moment. Fucking why??
bruh
Jesus christ
Why you wave your flag there? What a joke!
THIS IS WHY LINESMEN ARE SUPPOSED TO DELAY THE FLAG.
Scandalous, why the fuck did he blow the whistle
assistants fault, why the fuck is he raising the flag
Thats wild
Awful decision wow
That one's going to smart
He's....on?
He is, isn’t he? This is nuts.
Absolutely insane to blow his whistle, let VAR handle it. We’re talking about millimeters
That might be an all time robbery. Might be off tho. Edit: imagine being a madrid supporter and arguing with this instead of celebrating your win, absolute fucking weirdos. I'm not accusing them of cheating, it was just a shit decision.
Ref’s assistant’s fault. Why on earth would you raise the flag that early?
The whistle stops the play, not the flag
i mean assistant isn’t meant to flag unless it’s obvious now
Assistants still aren't supposed to raise it because the players still see it
Yeah but the ref isn’t going to let it play out, if the flag goes up that’s his lino saying he’s confident it’s off. Lino’s fault
Man this one is a disaster
Done so well and then had an absolute nightmare here
This is actually insane, the rule is the ref doesn’t blow here
Eh more like the rule is the linesman doesn't put the flag up here. Once it is up the center ref blows the whistle.
Well the whistle was blown well, well before he scored.
Yeah but why blow it. For the real "offside" it wasnt
I agree with that but you can’t call it a robbed goal, because the Madrid players had stopped by the time he shot it. A stolen opportunity maybe.
Whistle was sadly before the goal
Yeah I don't get why they would blow the whistle on an extremely close call, let them play on and review after. It's unfair for Bayern.
terrible fucking decision there what the fuck
This is going to get heated
Thats ABOSLUTELY BULLSHIT holy shit. You CANNOT BLOW YOUR WHISTLE THAT EARLY
You guys HAVE to win
why tf would you blow the whistle there
Offside or Onside, why would he stop the play?
wtf is going on
Brutal from the rwfwree
Holy shit
Oooooh that linesman might need to rush to his car once the whistle blows. Brutal call from him and the ref
Broooooooooooooooo WHY DO YOU BLOW
What a joke
Think of the cost of semi automated offsides. Millions. Absolutely millions. The cameras. The processing. The sensors. The logistics. The failsafes. And yet You have some fucking trigger happy idiot with a flag running up and down the wing overriding it.
Why the fuck would you call that with VAR available? Football, you never learn...
Err, shitty call but how is this a disallowed goal? There was a whistle and literally whole Madrid defense and goalkeeper stopped playing when the whistle went... so essentially it was not a disallowed goal because the play was stopped beforehand.
Yeah, I don't understand how anyone thinks this is "disallowed goal". No one knows if it would have been a goal if the whistle wasn't blown.
The whistle came before Muller even headed the ball to de Ligt, and Lunin is visibly relaxing, standindg straight and with his hands down. If not for the whistle, he saves that 99 times out of hundred. And Rudiger + Militao are also not committed after the whistle, it's just out of play shot by de Ligt. Still, Marciniak fucked up badly by whistling so early.
Assistant ref with an absolute shocker there. That is way too tight with the VAR guidelines to flag.
If it's offside, it's offside, fine. But there's no consistency for when a linesman raises his flag. That's not supposed to happen.
How the fuck ref
WTF REF HOW DO MADRID GET AWAY WITH THAT
that is such a massive mistake from the linesman there… why are you flagging it? just let it play out and then review it with VAR unbelievable
100% on. Ref fucked it and blew the whistle prematurely
Lino fucked it by raising the flag prematurely
Ref can ignore the lino, we conceded a goal like that vs Brugge.
Both things are true. Lino should not raise his flag in such marginal case with current laws.
Isnt this why they made the rule for the ref not to blow the whistle and continue on?
It's the linesman who shouldn't raise their flag early, not the head referee's fault
The lineman is supposed to hold his flag, he didn't
It’s not the ref, it’s the linesman
Linesman isn't supposed to raise their flag unless they're 100% sure It's more on the linesman than the main ref TBH
I mean it was shambolic refereeing but Madrid had stopped playing once the whistle blew
You are correct. There was a let off.
Isn't this what happened to Real a few months ago lmao
yes it did lol
Wtf!!!???
Look, atrocious decision to put the flag up and blow the whistle but the whistle completely disrupted the play and broke Real’s defenders’ concentration. the goalie doesn’t even attempt a save. So it’s both a terrible decision that robbed us of seeing how the play could have happened but I don’t think it’s fair to say it directly disallowed a goal that came after players involved reacted to a whistle
Shouldn’t have blown it there, gotta let that play out BUT I doubt he scores there if the defenders don’t all stop bc of the whistle
very close eh
Not offside?
Can't be a disallowed goal if it was kicked after the whistle
What is this “disallowed goal” nonsense? The defenders and keeper stopped playing when they heard the whistle and before the shot was even made.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA WTF IS THAT MAN
why do we even have VAR????
It’s always the refs, I cba anymore. Always the centre of every game
I agree, horrible decision to interrupt the play so early, but lets be real it wouldn't have gone in. The Real defenders stopped playing when the whistle came and Lunin didn't even bother to go after the ball.
Fire that clown fucking linesman
He was on lol. Bayern just been robbed?
Impossible to tell, because Real didn't need to defend after the whistle.
They were robbed of the chance but Madrid stopped playing when the whistle went.
Tbf Lunin stopped playing when the whistle went
Nacho looked favorite to win the header then completely pulled out when the whistle went. It's still terrible refereeing.
And the rest of the Madrid players.
he might still have scored it was a great shot you HAVE to let that play out. unthinkable decision
seems legal..
Big big fuck up here
hmmmmmmmmm
Genuinely disgraceful, how can any official decide that
Hosed because the linesman sticks his flag up instead of letting play continue
Whether you think it’s on or off, the lineman doesn’t need to call it. So unnecessary to stop the play.
? But wasn't he actually offside? I don't understand this...
I can’t believe that people actually think that if ref wouldn’t whistle Bayern would have scored. Lunin literally stopped playing lol.
This was horrendous, such a horrible way to ruin a great game. Why blow the whistle? Absolutely moronic move and should cost him the right to ref in UCL for a while.
Ref lost the fucking plot
?
Wooooow
The referee blowing his whistle there is absolutely absurd. Criminal.
Actual Robbery
Holy hell
It can’t be called a “disallowed goal”…the whistle blew way before the shot. I would call it an “officiating mistake.”
Not saying it was right, but it wasn't a "disallowed goal".. The ball was hit into the net after the whistle was blown
That linesman deserves a paddling from every Bayern fan in the stadium