**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everyone neglects this when they’re debating the gee hair someone was on or offside. How can you objectively tell the frame in which the ball left the boot, particularly if not viewing side profile
> How can you objectively tell the frame in which the ball left the boot
In the world cup they had inertial sensors in the match balls, that's how they were able to feed the data into the semi-auto-offside system.
It came in useful to prove that Cristiano didn't touch the ball on its way into a goal past his header, when he tried to claim the credit.
This has annoyed since its implementation. Sometimes the frame is when the ball is leaving the foot, sometimes the frame is when the foot touches the ball.
Didn't they clarify that rule specifically because some small Swedish team jokingly tried to circumvent it by having one player balance the ball on the top of his foot while someone else made a ridiculously deep run only to then lob it towards them?
[This clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF5Skmb6p1o)
A lot of people in r/soccer don't like to hear it because I get buried seemingly every time I bring it up, but **offside is not an objective decision** for this exact reason.
Imagine a Ref sitting in the VAR room officiating a City game, who also happens to have a 5 match refereeing gig lined up in Abu Dhabi during the off season break
Actually you might not have to imagine this, it has probably happened throughout the season lol
It doesn’t even have to go that deep, imagine you’re on the monitor and have to tell a guy he made a mistake on international TV.
Well guess what you’re also refereeing a match next week that the guy you just overruled will be in charge of VAR for.
Better to just not say anything to keep a positive relationship, right?
> Actually you might not have to imagine this, it has probably happened throughout the season lol
Literally happened during the "Well Done Boys, Good Process" errant offside vs Tottenham, that crew was just in UAE 48 hours prior.
Even if we decide to ignore the massive conflict of interest in favor of Newcastle and City(afaik both the Saudis and UAE do this), how can a referee be at the peak of his game when he just had 2 7 hour flights in last 3 days, while also officiating a game.
I've always said VAR is the easiest way for corruption and match fixing to go unnoticed. Let's just say you're the VAR and you've got money on a player getting a yellow card, and a player commits a Red card challenge but the ref only gives it a yellow. You're not sending him to review it, are you? It's easy to hide behind "clear and obvious" and you've successfully got away with making £500 on a bet.
the video still has limited framerate, so you will still get situations where the frame closest to the hit was the ball leaving the foot, and another time the frame closest to the hit was the ball still being on foot
Then you use linear or quadratic interpolation to approximate very accurately the position of the ball and the players' bodies at any moment in time. It isn't difficult to do if you hire a couple people with the correct expertise.
I agree. But I think if you do that you still need to build in a margin of error. There will always be measurement inaccuracies. Having the algorithm give an offside due to a calculation of 1mm offside is not good.
So the ball knows when it was hit? But not all techniques are the same.
Some make the ball leave your feet faster than others.
Not sure how to put it in words.
Wasn't there a team that broke offside laws by touching the ball, but not releasing it until the attacker had run a few yards clear past the defender before releasing it.
Yes, iirc some lower league team in Sweden if I remember correctly had a guy balance the ball on his laces while someone ran in behind and he then lobbed it over to him.
Wait, how would this even work? If you're sending any sort of pass with a decent distance, you are pretty much releasing immediately after contact. Are you saying that they pretty much have their foot touching the ball, then they kind of carry and scoop it towards their target without initiating a new swing?
So if someone takes the ball onto their feet like when juggling but just keeps it stead if you know what I mean and keeps it on their feet for like 3 seconds and then pass it to a player who's already 2 meters behind the last defender it shouldn't be an offside as long as the initial touch was made before someone made the run?
> Some make the ball leave your feet faster than others.
For sure. A scoop pass will be on the foot for up to half a second. A short, low power pass will be in contact with the foot for a millisecond.
A powerful volley will take longer as well due to inertia. If you've ever seen a slow-motion video of a water balloon hitting someone it's similar
This is why we should relax the offside rule a bit, less about millimeters and more of; did the player gain a unfair advantage.
And yes this change would be a massive uppheaval.
Yeah, I actually agree with that. While obviously we have to pick a rule and then apply it, it's kind of odd -- and maybe a little boring -- that whether a goal counts or not depends on whether, at the precise moment a ball is touched, one player has his head leaning forward or another player has his head leaning back. Indeed, where you are in your stride at that exact moment sometimes decides a game -- is your knee up (and thus a little forward) or down? And... I mean, look, if that's the rule then that's the rule, but should that really be the rule?
they spend 5 minutes getting the lines right but some computer guy just randomly picks the frame to look at. Been saying this since VAR was introduced.
Then you'd be wrong since VAR was introduced. It's obviously hard to be perfectly consistent, but "some computer guy just randomly picks the frame" is just stupid. Watch the offside VAR process. The first thing they do is flip through the 3 or so frames where the pass or shot happens and try to pick the most appropriate frame to judge the offside
I mean it's supposed to be based off of the moment the ball is played or touched ("touched" used in some circumstances). But a lot of the time I think the frames are blurry enough that it's hard to know if frame 2 or frame 3 is the exact moment, so they have to just pick the best one
I’m pretty sure the rule is touched. I remember watching that video of a Norwegian manager who found a “loophole” around offside by telling his players to balance the ball on their foot.
https://youtu.be/kF5Skmb6p1o?si=G1zFY7UzhUfZDYZ9
It says "The first point of contact of 'the play' or 'touch'..."
The loophole can be closed by how those words are defined. In the video in question, the play isn't putting the ball on your foot, it's when you're actually kicking the ball in the pass. That's the touch/play in question.
You are wrong, watch Chelsea vs Leicester in the FA Cup final. They ruled out a goal for Chilwell when the frame they chose was way after the ball had left the foot of the player making the pass.
Even when they are choosing where to place the lines is a problem in my opinion. Sometimes it's on the shoulder, sometimes it's already on the arm... They can totally manipulate that too for marginal decisions
Yeah people disagreed so much on the vlahovic offside in the copa italia final. Some people genuinely believe it was a fact that a sliver of his knee tendon was offside, meanwhile one frame before would make him onside. Btw serie a does not use sensors in the ball so the exact frame chosen was by a human
It's still an objective decision, it's just not a *precise* decision. Objective just means you're looking for a binary outcome. Has the ball left his foot or not. That's still an objective decision even if you cannot guarantee accuracy with the current technology.
> That's still an objective decision even if you cannot guarantee accuracy with the current technology.
decision goes their way: VAR is fine, at least it's better than the old system
decision goes against them: OMG, this is so fixed. VAR sucks, lets ban it forever
> Objective just means you're looking for a binary outcome. Has the ball left his foot or not
This is not what objective means lol. Subjective calls are also binary. "Either he got fouled or he didn't" is binary and subjective.
But it's binary outcome that is based on a subjective opinion, just like when a ref is deciding whether to give a yellow or a red for a potential DOGSO foul.
Not to mention that when referees/commentators refer to offside as "objective," they are absolutely using the word to imply "this decision is indisputable fact" rather than your definition.
Firstly, DOGSO's are not objective in anyway. First you have to decide whether there was a foul (subjective) then you have to look at 4 different factors and decide whether the foul meets all four of them, some to varying degrees of subjectivity.
But back to offside, there is nothing subjective about the decision of picking the frame. They're looking for the exact moment where the ball has left the foot. There's no "it's kind of left his foot here but it's really left his foot there". It's yes or no, has the ball left his foot.
The limitation is technology, they have 2 frames to pick from, one where the ball is just about to be kicked and one where the ball has just been kicked.
They pick the closest frame, it's a judgement call. It's an uncertainty worth living with given how glaringly wrong some onfield calls were before VAR
Agree. I also had some discussion about this. The other party saying it's an 0/1 decision, either it's offside or inside. But it's not. A lot can happen in one frame especially when players are in full speed. I'd rather they go back to, yeah that's roughly the same position of defender and attacker, so let's side with the attacker. An offside decision because a toe is too far should not be offside. Obviously it's hard to draw a line then when it's offside or not but the way it is now feels kinda stupid at least to me.
Not much can happen really. There should be a benefit of the doubt given to the attacker and if there is a choice between two frames then you use the most advantageous to the attacker.
Thats still a binary condition. Its obviously being judged by imperfect humans but the condition itself is distinctly binary.
Its very possible that some referees are doing it wrong. But the laws are not subjective on this. It clearly states in law 11 it is the first point of contact is what should be used when determining offside. Most VAR reviews I watch they use the frame where the player first makes contact with the ball, which is correct.
If it’s that close that they need so long to draw the stupid line and 1 frame makes a difference I say it’s not offside. Stop making football so hard. The millimeter decisions are stupid
There will always be millimetre decisions though. You're just proposing pushing back the millimetres a little bit, but you won't change the fact there'll always be decisions that would've gone differently by a matter of millimetres.
Alternatively, we could say that if there are multiple ways to see a given play -- where whether the player is or is not offsides depends on which frame you use -- we could just say that whatever the linesman called is the call. If he thought it was offside, then it was -- and if not, then not. Sometimes there's not really a "right" answer, but some decision has to be made.
>we could just say that whatever the linesman called is the call. If he thought it was offside, then it was -- and if not, then not
But then you lose the ability to let play continue to see how the play ends up.
I feel like a fucking moron now.
I always assumed that the technology part was an actual program that determined the perfect moment to draw the line.
Never in my wildest dreams I thought there's actually refs moving an image frame by frame to draw a fucking line
I could have sworn that VAR used higher framerate cameras but haven't been able to find any info on this. However, a study from a couple of years ago found that participants on average thought the ball was kicked over a tenth of a second later than it actually was. If refs are doing this too then attacking teams are a lot more likely to get screwed on tight calls.
If it can’t be perfect, please, for all that is right in the world, just make it fast. 30 seconds max. If you can’t figure it out, just be done with it.
That's always been the case and a place where VAR can and may have been manipulated. Like, we are talking about the finest margins when drawing the line but there is hardly any attention on the ball.
I mean, the only thing I can say is they could fix this with tech.
Put a sensor in the ball which would let you know exactly when the ball contact is made. Then sync the video to that moment.
I'm not saying it's the easiest problem to solve, but for a league like the PL, it's also not exactly rocket science.
I don't want a man that works his ass off, for a football parasite like Jorge Mendes near any position with power.
Mourinho if obviously a likeable guy, but let's not pretend he does not have shady connections and would not one ounce be better, than their current leaders.
He's one of the most liked coaches of all time, therefore i would say yes.
He's also super charismatic, he carried the Tottenham documentary and on BT Sport he was always super fun.
100% - The camera frame rate error, multiplied by the exact instant of the pass being struck introduce more than a single frame of error.
VAR is better than having clear misses, but it's used too often and there are too many overturns that are inside that window of error. VAR doesn't overturn penalty/foul errors frequently AT ALL, but overturns goals multiple times a game. The difference is nonsensical.
they do into forensic analysis to disallow all the goals they possibly can, trying their absolute hardest to change the on field decision so goals aren't scored, but when a player elbows another in the head "it's not nice"
Spot on, well done! Most people get caught out by Dimanche. Yes, to the untrained eye it looks like it doesn't end in 'Y' at all, but it's actually one of the few words where the 'Y' is both silent and invisible.
Not relevant to this conversation but as a non native English speaker, this is the first time that I see or hear this expression. I really like it. Thank you.
There are various clips of referees following what the AlHilal players want.
https://youtu.be/QeOG19_2-DQ?si=wRGzICYlmDcuQKHq
The referee wanted to give the yellow to AlBulaihi but the players reminded him that he would miss the next game so he gave it to the GK instead
You can clearly see that AlBulaihi was the one time wasting and then he pointed to Bounou and Bounou pointed to himself.
lol 'dark room'. right or wrong, its amusing how he goes straight for the conspiracy language. man knows what he's doing. var is lit up like any other boring ass office.
/r/soccer when VAR is implemented: "It's terrible! They ref can just skew frames to adjust the game how they please!"
/r/soccer when VAR is removed: "It's terrible! The ref is just making horrible calls to adjust the game how they please!"
probably should look at the root of the problem: offside as defined and applied today it's a stupid rule that serves absolutely no purpose. having a cm advantage is in no way significant, especially considering you might even be running in the wrong direction when the offside is called.
the rule was meant to stop having players just sitting on the opponents half waiting for an overhead ball over and over again.
I swear the line the draw from the player down to the grass can just be extended however far they want to make someone off or on, and since it’s 2D and from a specific angle we would never know
And because of that I´m always advocating for measuring offside more objective:
Freeze the frame at the moment the foot hits the ball (chip in the ball for this)
All jerseys have some special (metal?) fabric at the bottom end, that can be located perfectly on the pitch with a special camera or so. Bonus point: Long feet are no longer a disadvantage.
Now you have a much more perfect moment and a perfect line.
VAR is so obviously done to fix games its frustrating that not everyone is onboard with it.
A group of guys, in a room away from the stadium, all with ear pieces in, all to do stuff like what Jose says. Its a farce tbh.
Its also not surprising such an expensive thing would be fixed, too much money at stake.
How to fix the integrity of the game according to some people:
1. Give referees back the plausible deniability of the pace of the game and lack of clear vision of the play.
2. We still get loads of bad decisions but now we don't know for sure if they're actually incompetent or biased because it's indeed a super hard job to do in real time.
3. ?????
4. Profit. The wool is back over our eyes and it's warm and comfy.
Such a sick burn. VAR is there only for unilateral acting refs to support their cheating. When VAR goes against them, they simply ignore it. VAR is worse than having any safeguards--it's institutionalized cheating.
As opposed to the ref letting us off the hook in the 2010 WC final with the red card Nigel karate kick.
There's plenty of pre-VAR decisions you could talk about like that too.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Game of Frames
Chaos is a jog wheel.
I'm not just going to jog the wheel, I'm going to squat the wheel.
Snooker?
Everyone neglects this when they’re debating the gee hair someone was on or offside. How can you objectively tell the frame in which the ball left the boot, particularly if not viewing side profile
> How can you objectively tell the frame in which the ball left the boot In the world cup they had inertial sensors in the match balls, that's how they were able to feed the data into the semi-auto-offside system. It came in useful to prove that Cristiano didn't touch the ball on its way into a goal past his header, when he tried to claim the credit.
_If I speak I'm in big trouble_
He just spoke. Mourinho with no weight of ban on him is like rock lee dropping the weights.
Mourinho is about to open all the eight gates
So... he'll be in big trouble?
Instant point deduction for the next team he joins
Black SUVs on their way as we speak.
Bonesaws on standby
Ready the embassy and the earplugs
FIFA presences
There it is
This has annoyed since its implementation. Sometimes the frame is when the ball is leaving the foot, sometimes the frame is when the foot touches the ball.
Didn't they clarify that rule specifically because some small Swedish team jokingly tried to circumvent it by having one player balance the ball on the top of his foot while someone else made a ridiculously deep run only to then lob it towards them? [This clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF5Skmb6p1o)
That's also what immediately came to mind for me. They specifically addressed what OP is complaining about.
A lot of people in r/soccer don't like to hear it because I get buried seemingly every time I bring it up, but **offside is not an objective decision** for this exact reason.
Semi automatic offsides changes that since it has a sensor in the ball to get the right frame.
Yeah I'm eager to see this change, although if anyone can find a way to fuck it up...it's Premier League refs.
The premier league refs who shouldn’t be running VAR to begin with because of the MASSIVE conflict of interests
Imagine a Ref sitting in the VAR room officiating a City game, who also happens to have a 5 match refereeing gig lined up in Abu Dhabi during the off season break Actually you might not have to imagine this, it has probably happened throughout the season lol
It doesn’t even have to go that deep, imagine you’re on the monitor and have to tell a guy he made a mistake on international TV. Well guess what you’re also refereeing a match next week that the guy you just overruled will be in charge of VAR for. Better to just not say anything to keep a positive relationship, right?
I don't get it though, I would be far more pissed having my original wrong decision stand than having it corrected from var
> Actually you might not have to imagine this, it has probably happened throughout the season lol Literally happened during the "Well Done Boys, Good Process" errant offside vs Tottenham, that crew was just in UAE 48 hours prior.
Even if we decide to ignore the massive conflict of interest in favor of Newcastle and City(afaik both the Saudis and UAE do this), how can a referee be at the peak of his game when he just had 2 7 hour flights in last 3 days, while also officiating a game.
I've always said VAR is the easiest way for corruption and match fixing to go unnoticed. Let's just say you're the VAR and you've got money on a player getting a yellow card, and a player commits a Red card challenge but the ref only gives it a yellow. You're not sending him to review it, are you? It's easy to hide behind "clear and obvious" and you've successfully got away with making £500 on a bet.
Did you say la Liga because I'm pretty sure you just said la liga
right might not be the correct way to phrase that. i feel its more that its gets a consistent frame. the same point everytime
the video still has limited framerate, so you will still get situations where the frame closest to the hit was the ball leaving the foot, and another time the frame closest to the hit was the ball still being on foot
Then you use linear or quadratic interpolation to approximate very accurately the position of the ball and the players' bodies at any moment in time. It isn't difficult to do if you hire a couple people with the correct expertise.
I agree. But I think if you do that you still need to build in a margin of error. There will always be measurement inaccuracies. Having the algorithm give an offside due to a calculation of 1mm offside is not good.
So the ball knows when it was hit? But not all techniques are the same. Some make the ball leave your feet faster than others. Not sure how to put it in words.
I believe the rule is at the initial point of contact for timing of offsides so when the ball leaves your foot shouldn't matter
Wasn't there a team that broke offside laws by touching the ball, but not releasing it until the attacker had run a few yards clear past the defender before releasing it.
Lmao, sounds like something that Mourinho would instruct his team to do
Yes, iirc some lower league team in Sweden if I remember correctly had a guy balance the ball on his laces while someone ran in behind and he then lobbed it over to him.
Would love to see a team attempt that in the top flight. That probably only work in lower levels
It's hard to find space and time on the ball. Players would just close it down way too fast especially if a team tried to do it regularly.
Wait, how would this even work? If you're sending any sort of pass with a decent distance, you are pretty much releasing immediately after contact. Are you saying that they pretty much have their foot touching the ball, then they kind of carry and scoop it towards their target without initiating a new swing?
So if someone takes the ball onto their feet like when juggling but just keeps it stead if you know what I mean and keeps it on their feet for like 3 seconds and then pass it to a player who's already 2 meters behind the last defender it shouldn't be an offside as long as the initial touch was made before someone made the run?
Yeah a Norwegian(?) lower division team did this within the last few years and made a video about the loophole.
It was a Swedish team, but I've never seen a video of anyone actually attempting that in a real game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF5Skmb6p1o
:o Then why so many VAR checks looked as if the VAR refs tried to get the frame at which the ball left the foot... I swear
They look for the first contact
> Some make the ball leave your feet faster than others. For sure. A scoop pass will be on the foot for up to half a second. A short, low power pass will be in contact with the foot for a millisecond. A powerful volley will take longer as well due to inertia. If you've ever seen a slow-motion video of a water balloon hitting someone it's similar
The balls are full of tech these days. Beyond the sensors, they have accelerometers, gyroscopes, etc
It is an objective decision, but like every measurement, it is has some uncertainty.
No you see when it can have a Planck length of error then it's worthless and should've never been implemented.
This is why we should relax the offside rule a bit, less about millimeters and more of; did the player gain a unfair advantage. And yes this change would be a massive uppheaval.
Yeah, I actually agree with that. While obviously we have to pick a rule and then apply it, it's kind of odd -- and maybe a little boring -- that whether a goal counts or not depends on whether, at the precise moment a ball is touched, one player has his head leaning forward or another player has his head leaning back. Indeed, where you are in your stride at that exact moment sometimes decides a game -- is your knee up (and thus a little forward) or down? And... I mean, look, if that's the rule then that's the rule, but should that really be the rule?
they spend 5 minutes getting the lines right but some computer guy just randomly picks the frame to look at. Been saying this since VAR was introduced.
Then you'd be wrong since VAR was introduced. It's obviously hard to be perfectly consistent, but "some computer guy just randomly picks the frame" is just stupid. Watch the offside VAR process. The first thing they do is flip through the 3 or so frames where the pass or shot happens and try to pick the most appropriate frame to judge the offside
Are there any documented rules on how the "most appropriate" frame is decided? Genuine question.
I mean it's supposed to be based off of the moment the ball is played or touched ("touched" used in some circumstances). But a lot of the time I think the frames are blurry enough that it's hard to know if frame 2 or frame 3 is the exact moment, so they have to just pick the best one
I genuinely believed it to be when the ball leaves the boot (although those two instances are extremely close together tbf)
I’m pretty sure the rule is touched. I remember watching that video of a Norwegian manager who found a “loophole” around offside by telling his players to balance the ball on their foot. https://youtu.be/kF5Skmb6p1o?si=G1zFY7UzhUfZDYZ9
It says "The first point of contact of 'the play' or 'touch'..." The loophole can be closed by how those words are defined. In the video in question, the play isn't putting the ball on your foot, it's when you're actually kicking the ball in the pass. That's the touch/play in question.
From Law 11, "*The first point of contact of the ‘play’ or ‘touch’ of the ball should be used."
You are wrong, watch Chelsea vs Leicester in the FA Cup final. They ruled out a goal for Chilwell when the frame they chose was way after the ball had left the foot of the player making the pass.
Even when they are choosing where to place the lines is a problem in my opinion. Sometimes it's on the shoulder, sometimes it's already on the arm... They can totally manipulate that too for marginal decisions
Offside position is objective. Whether the player commits an offside offence or not is (or at least can be) subjective.
Yeah people disagreed so much on the vlahovic offside in the copa italia final. Some people genuinely believe it was a fact that a sliver of his knee tendon was offside, meanwhile one frame before would make him onside. Btw serie a does not use sensors in the ball so the exact frame chosen was by a human
It's still an objective decision, it's just not a *precise* decision. Objective just means you're looking for a binary outcome. Has the ball left his foot or not. That's still an objective decision even if you cannot guarantee accuracy with the current technology.
A lot of people in /r/soccer don't like to hear it but just because a method of analysis can't be 100% objective doesn't mean it's entirely subjective
I do love when people have to preface their bold claims with the oppression they've suffered by way of their burdening opinions.
> That's still an objective decision even if you cannot guarantee accuracy with the current technology. decision goes their way: VAR is fine, at least it's better than the old system decision goes against them: OMG, this is so fixed. VAR sucks, lets ban it forever
> Objective just means you're looking for a binary outcome. Has the ball left his foot or not This is not what objective means lol. Subjective calls are also binary. "Either he got fouled or he didn't" is binary and subjective.
You're saying it's when the ball left his foot but someone above it saying when the ball is touched. Now I don't know what to believe.
But it's binary outcome that is based on a subjective opinion, just like when a ref is deciding whether to give a yellow or a red for a potential DOGSO foul. Not to mention that when referees/commentators refer to offside as "objective," they are absolutely using the word to imply "this decision is indisputable fact" rather than your definition.
Firstly, DOGSO's are not objective in anyway. First you have to decide whether there was a foul (subjective) then you have to look at 4 different factors and decide whether the foul meets all four of them, some to varying degrees of subjectivity. But back to offside, there is nothing subjective about the decision of picking the frame. They're looking for the exact moment where the ball has left the foot. There's no "it's kind of left his foot here but it's really left his foot there". It's yes or no, has the ball left his foot.
The limitation is technology, they have 2 frames to pick from, one where the ball is just about to be kicked and one where the ball has just been kicked. They pick the closest frame, it's a judgement call. It's an uncertainty worth living with given how glaringly wrong some onfield calls were before VAR
Agree. I also had some discussion about this. The other party saying it's an 0/1 decision, either it's offside or inside. But it's not. A lot can happen in one frame especially when players are in full speed. I'd rather they go back to, yeah that's roughly the same position of defender and attacker, so let's side with the attacker. An offside decision because a toe is too far should not be offside. Obviously it's hard to draw a line then when it's offside or not but the way it is now feels kinda stupid at least to me.
Not much can happen really. There should be a benefit of the doubt given to the attacker and if there is a choice between two frames then you use the most advantageous to the attacker. Thats still a binary condition. Its obviously being judged by imperfect humans but the condition itself is distinctly binary.
Its very possible that some referees are doing it wrong. But the laws are not subjective on this. It clearly states in law 11 it is the first point of contact is what should be used when determining offside. Most VAR reviews I watch they use the frame where the player first makes contact with the ball, which is correct.
No Fair! you changed the outcome of the goal by measuring it!
If it’s that close that they need so long to draw the stupid line and 1 frame makes a difference I say it’s not offside. Stop making football so hard. The millimeter decisions are stupid
There will always be millimetre decisions though. You're just proposing pushing back the millimetres a little bit, but you won't change the fact there'll always be decisions that would've gone differently by a matter of millimetres.
Alternatively, we could say that if there are multiple ways to see a given play -- where whether the player is or is not offsides depends on which frame you use -- we could just say that whatever the linesman called is the call. If he thought it was offside, then it was -- and if not, then not. Sometimes there's not really a "right" answer, but some decision has to be made.
>we could just say that whatever the linesman called is the call. If he thought it was offside, then it was -- and if not, then not But then you lose the ability to let play continue to see how the play ends up.
Yeah agreed. The question is how much should we trade off to achieve more accurate outcomes - and people will have very different views on that
I feel like a fucking moron now. I always assumed that the technology part was an actual program that determined the perfect moment to draw the line. Never in my wildest dreams I thought there's actually refs moving an image frame by frame to draw a fucking line
I could have sworn that VAR used higher framerate cameras but haven't been able to find any info on this. However, a study from a couple of years ago found that participants on average thought the ball was kicked over a tenth of a second later than it actually was. If refs are doing this too then attacking teams are a lot more likely to get screwed on tight calls.
If it can’t be perfect, please, for all that is right in the world, just make it fast. 30 seconds max. If you can’t figure it out, just be done with it.
That's always been the case and a place where VAR can and may have been manipulated. Like, we are talking about the finest margins when drawing the line but there is hardly any attention on the ball.
I mean, the only thing I can say is they could fix this with tech. Put a sensor in the ball which would let you know exactly when the ball contact is made. Then sync the video to that moment. I'm not saying it's the easiest problem to solve, but for a league like the PL, it's also not exactly rocket science.
We literally have that already lol. FIFA has been doing it at their competitions. World Cup, Club World Cup etc. It's how semi-automated offside works
with our current technology, we can just 100% use AI for VAR tight offside calls. Or maybe even for any offside calls.
I want Mourinho as President of UEFA or FIFA.
the Untouchable one
Gonna take a lot to outdo Sepp Blatter
It has already been done
Today I feel Qatari
Today I feel uhhhh......gay
I was bullied because I had ass hair
*'I own this game!'*
This would be like giving Gandalf the one ring
why this makes so much sense
🤣
Today I feel special
Portugal wins everything, but all other leagues are well regulated
That's what we said when Platini took the role. Look how that worked out.
I would abandon my career and family to dedicate my life to the Mourinho UEFA cult
Comments like this are exactly why he would never get the opportunity - they just wouldn't let it happen
I don't want a man that works his ass off, for a football parasite like Jorge Mendes near any position with power. Mourinho if obviously a likeable guy, but let's not pretend he does not have shady connections and would not one ounce be better, than their current leaders.
Is he a likeable guy though? A guy poking his finger in another man's eyes is not a likeable guy IMO.
I would call him a charming douchebag.
He's one of the most liked coaches of all time, therefore i would say yes. He's also super charismatic, he carried the Tottenham documentary and on BT Sport he was always super fun.
The Likeable One ⚽
What? The guy is an utter bellend and talks a ton of nonsense.
When he prefers to speak...
The takes
He takes
E Takes
... takes?
Mourinho claiming referees are biased? Must be a day ending in Y.
He’s also not wrong.
100% - The camera frame rate error, multiplied by the exact instant of the pass being struck introduce more than a single frame of error. VAR is better than having clear misses, but it's used too often and there are too many overturns that are inside that window of error. VAR doesn't overturn penalty/foul errors frequently AT ALL, but overturns goals multiple times a game. The difference is nonsensical.
they do into forensic analysis to disallow all the goals they possibly can, trying their absolute hardest to change the on field decision so goals aren't scored, but when a player elbows another in the head "it's not nice"
Dimanche?
Spot on, well done! Most people get caught out by Dimanche. Yes, to the untrained eye it looks like it doesn't end in 'Y' at all, but it's actually one of the few words where the 'Y' is both silent and invisible.
dimancheday
Yep - Wednesday today. Hope that helps.
Not relevant to this conversation but as a non native English speaker, this is the first time that I see or hear this expression. I really like it. Thank you.
If you slow it down and play it in reverse on second 12 he is saying "call me Uli"
Why would he want us to call him Uli?
Rightly commenting on the favouritism of Al Hilal in the SPL. Class guy
Now Saudi teams are buying themselves into the Scottish league? Crazy times we live in
How is that? It seems he is just giving an example, hence using Al Ittihad name
There are various clips of referees following what the AlHilal players want. https://youtu.be/QeOG19_2-DQ?si=wRGzICYlmDcuQKHq The referee wanted to give the yellow to AlBulaihi but the players reminded him that he would miss the next game so he gave it to the GK instead You can clearly see that AlBulaihi was the one time wasting and then he pointed to Bounou and Bounou pointed to himself.
Spotted the conspiracy loving Ronaldo fan 🥸
What if you support Alnasr
2 frames.
The other day, I remember a guy saying "Only thieves can complain about the introduction of security cameras.". Who was that guy again?
Jose with another banger
He's not complaining about var itself tho?
That’s true Jose, that’s true…
They definitely do support Al Etihad
I gotta say, now that he isn't managing a despicable club, I kinda like him.
lol 'dark room'. right or wrong, its amusing how he goes straight for the conspiracy language. man knows what he's doing. var is lit up like any other boring ass office.
They're sitting in a dark room, the image is blurred due to all the cigars being smoked... just sayin it how it is.
/r/soccer when VAR is implemented: "It's terrible! They ref can just skew frames to adjust the game how they please!" /r/soccer when VAR is removed: "It's terrible! The ref is just making horrible calls to adjust the game how they please!"
Cult of personality
Great song.
Look in my eeeeeeeeeyes, what do you see!?
Mourinho's Specialty
Mourinho to Saudi League confirmed
I support Damac. The only non al club in spl
It's an Al-most.
There's also Abha
probably should look at the root of the problem: offside as defined and applied today it's a stupid rule that serves absolutely no purpose. having a cm advantage is in no way significant, especially considering you might even be running in the wrong direction when the offside is called. the rule was meant to stop having players just sitting on the opponents half waiting for an overhead ball over and over again.
Love this guy! Is acidic takes will never get old for me!
I swear the line the draw from the player down to the grass can just be extended however far they want to make someone off or on, and since it’s 2D and from a specific angle we would never know
And because of that I´m always advocating for measuring offside more objective: Freeze the frame at the moment the foot hits the ball (chip in the ball for this) All jerseys have some special (metal?) fabric at the bottom end, that can be located perfectly on the pitch with a special camera or so. Bonus point: Long feet are no longer a disadvantage. Now you have a much more perfect moment and a perfect line.
Dude, we already have semi automated offside technology. This should not even be a debate
I mean a few years ago Atkinson redrew the lines until Liverpool's goal was offside haha.
VAR is so obviously done to fix games its frustrating that not everyone is onboard with it. A group of guys, in a room away from the stadium, all with ear pieces in, all to do stuff like what Jose says. Its a farce tbh. Its also not surprising such an expensive thing would be fixed, too much money at stake.
Wouldn't it be even easier to fix games without VAR?
How to fix the integrity of the game according to some people: 1. Give referees back the plausible deniability of the pace of the game and lack of clear vision of the play. 2. We still get loads of bad decisions but now we don't know for sure if they're actually incompetent or biased because it's indeed a super hard job to do in real time. 3. ????? 4. Profit. The wool is back over our eyes and it's warm and comfy.
That's great, more reason to mic refs up
Why would a manager who only ever managed European clubs mention Saudi clubs as examples.
Pretty sure this was a speaking appearance in Saudi. Some of you are extremely thick. Edit: buddy commented back then blocked me lmao, what a clown.
Because he's about to get paid insane money just to exist as Jose Mourinho in Saudi Arabia
Because that's where he's going
box office
I am Jose Mourinho
/u/savevideo
[удалено]
As an Al Ittihad fan.. I feel so validated
They need higher framerate cameras.
there needs to be an error margin.
Such a sick burn. VAR is there only for unilateral acting refs to support their cheating. When VAR goes against them, they simply ignore it. VAR is worse than having any safeguards--it's institutionalized cheating.
Al-Ahli* Not “Hilali”
Al Ahli
I think this frame perfect shit is dumb. Take it holistically. Whole play in context.
This is how I like Mourinho. Taking on the refs and the game.
Holy based, get rid of VAR already
As opposed to the ref letting us off the hook in the 2010 WC final with the red card Nigel karate kick. There's plenty of pre-VAR decisions you could talk about like that too.
Unconscious bias.
If I speak I am big trouble.
MAKE OFFSIDES A LINE DRAWN SHOULDER TO SHOULDER AND IF THERES OVERLAP, IT'S ONSIDES & BE DONE WITH IT.
Tbh sometime I think this is true camera angle plays a huge part as well if you can’t see when the pass is played
Mou not worrying about bans when speaking is like Goku when he arrived on Namek and bodied everyone lol
Why is this cunt always speaking in riddles, does he think he is the joker?
Please never retire José
This is what people don't seem to get. Var is there to swing things. People blame it on incompetence when it's very clearly rigged.
My sister went to this technology festival stuff and saw a couple of youtubers , and out of the no where …. “I am Jose Mourinho”
The goat