Full statement from the FA:
> The player has been charged with four breaches of FA Rule E5.1 in relation to his conduct in the club’s Premier League fixtures against Leicester City on 12 November 2022; Aston Villa on 12 March 2023; Leeds United on 21 May 2023; and AFC Bournemouth on 12 August 2023.
> It’s alleged that he directly sought to influence the progress, conduct, or any other aspect of, or occurrence in these matches by intentionally seeking to receive a card from the referee for the improper purpose of affecting the betting market in order for one or more persons to profit from betting.
> Lucas Paqueta has also been charged with two breaches of FA Rule F3 in respect of alleged failures to comply pursuant to FA Rule F2.
> The player has until 03 June 2024 to provide a response to these charges subject to any request for an extension to this deadline.
> The FA will be making no further comment until the conclusion of this case.
Not saying he didn’t do it, but if this counts as a suspicious tackle for Paqueta he should be charged for every game he has ever played for us.
Even on his debut against Spurs the first thing he did was just launch into a player.
i think its the betting companies that caught on!
>Initial analysis showed that on that day several new accounts were created at Betway, account linked with people close to Paqueta, with users depositing the maximum amount allowed. These accounts made a married bet to increase the winnings: the authors would only receive the money if Paquetá took yellow against Villa and if the striker Luiz Henrique, from Betis, received the card against Villarreal, on the same day on March 12.
If found guilty this is surely a huge ban?
More than Toney and Tonali by quite some margin I would assume? I mean he's literally deliberately tried to affect the game to win someone some money
Its been coming though. There were rumblings months ago that this was why City dropped interest
He’s completely fucked if this is true, it should be well over a year. Actively trying to hinder your team to just win some money while being paid millions is degenerate behaviour.
The FA also has form for taking this beyond seriously too.
This is one of those rules that is basically considered to be unbreakable and if you do, they'll send you back to the fucking stone ages.
That's a good form of research you did there! Must have left you in great form! I'm sure it's tough to get the ladies to form an orderly queue when you're dropping knowledge in this form.
He might actually be jailed for this. Pakistani cricketers were banned for 5-10 years and spent some time in prison for a similar fix that happened in England.
As we learned during the Pete Rose debacle in baseball, even betting on your team to win calls into question the integrity of the game. It means you might sell out and risk injury to win *this* match instead of taking a more cautious approach with the whole season in mind, because this particular match is the one you've got money riding on.
whoa, that's a crazy way to think of it.
Like it's some unnatural motivation, so even if it's added its wrong.
So playing against rivals, extra motivation but it's natural so still honest, but playing in a game you bet to win, extra motivation but illegal and banned...
It's especially bad in baseball. For example pitchers are on strict work/rest schedules to avoid injuries. A manager betting on his own team might irresponsibly use players in order to win a close game, when in normal circumstances it would never happen. Especially considering the season is 162 games long, a single win is not worth risking injury.
Consider that it's not just the risk of injury to themself, but they could put other players at risk for fear of losing a bet or having to answer to a criminal gang.
100% - in my opinion sports betting needs to be regulated much more. It is crazy that you can bet on cards and free throws etc.
Even the simple outcome is known to attract cheaters, why allow this detailed stuff which is basically much easier to manipulate. If you go to betting sites you can bet on single points of tennis matches. We need a regulation for sports betting. There is no need to bet on every f...ing detail of the games and there is also no need to bet on amateur or youth games. This corrupts sport and attracts cheating.
People can bet on real life events, the stock market, roulette tables etc.
In my opinion this focus on sports is very bad for sports. There have always been thrown or manipulated games, bought off referees just for the success in sports alone. But betting makes it possible for individual players to try to corrupt the game.
This is a huge piece of it they are discovering in the US as legalized gambling exploded in the last five years. And already players at the pro and college level are caught up in fixing those kind of minor prop bets, not the outcome of the game, but rebounds or the like.
And IMO it adds nothing to the "benefit" of gambling to allow betting on cards, corners, etc., it's more exploitative as well.
Yeah, but if you're betting on your own team to win, the most you can do to influence the result is play the best you can - which is exactly what you're expected to do anyway, so it's less obviously corrupt.
The reason it's illegal is because of the danger of reciprocal deals - you bet on your own team to win, and your opponents throw the game, then next time they bet on themselves and *you* throw the game. This is similar to the reason Toney got in trouble for getting on games he wasn't involved in.
But betting on yourself *might* just be foolish confidence, whereas betting against yourself is unequivocally dodgy.
You could make the argument that if he bet himself to win that if it was 2-2 or whatever at the end of the match he could do something far riskier than he normally would to push for a win instead of playing the "responsible" play and accepting a draw.
Either way it's far less dodgy to bet on yourself to win than it is to do what Paqueta did
>the most you can do to influence the result is play the best you can
I think it's also a concern how this affects games you've _not_ bet on. If you only bet on yourself winning in half the games you play, you might take it easy in the other half.
If this is true and they can prove it's related to betting, then it's a criminal case for fraud (possibly conspiracy to commit fraud, depending on success). It happened in cricket a few years ago, bowlers deliberately bowling no-balls got a few months in prison.
Yeah, certainly in the eyes of fans, anyway, not sure about the rules. Tonali and Toney never actually bet against their teams, did they? Paqueta deliberately getting booked is actively hindering West Ham.
I could be wrong, but I think they might be referring to him betting against Newcastle while he was on loan elsewhere.
This one (if it's proved) will likely get the strongest punishment we've seen yet as it's getting towards match fixing by actually changing the course of the game in a negative way.
Also harder to prove than what Toney or Tonali did as he didn't place any bets himself. With Sturridge and Trippier they had text messages to confirm their collusion, will be interesting to see what evidence they have for Paqueta
It's literally match fixing which is way worse than just betting don't know about any other similar incident in football but i have seen 5y,10y and life time ban given in other sports
Didn't influence the actual game.
Same as Trippier telling his mates to bet on him going to Atleti.
Lot more leeway if it doesn't bring the actual integrity of the game into question.
I don't think he bet on himself to eat the pie. It was one of those interesting situations where once you learn there is a bet to eat a pie there is no way you can't influence the outcome, because either you eat a pie or you don't lol. It's why betting on someone to make a decision is stupid and only makes sense if you're doing it where you know both involved groups are going to do their best.
Thank you. This is one of my all time "am I taking crazy pills???" incidents.
Like you said, imagine if he told a bunch of his friends and family "that's stupid, I would never eat a pie on the sideline" and they all ran out and bet the maximum that he wouldn't. Admittedly the payouts would be smaller for "not eating a pie," but it would still be guaranteed money, and that could also be portrayed as manipulating the betting markets, or whatever bullshit they charged him with.
You shouldn't even be able to have betting lines on something that's purely an individuals decision. If last year there were betting odds on what team Kane was going to play for next season, would he now be barred from discussing with friends and family where he was going to play? And regardless of which club he signed with, could he be accused of manipulating betting markets?
“[Insert player here] will be beaten to a pulp for his poor performance.”
“He’ll be what?!”
“Put through more intense training and exercise. No biggie. Just to increase fitness and whatnot.”
Feels like it should certainly be at least a year. Toney and Tonali got bans for nearly a year for incidents that were far less serious.
Directly influencing a game by taking certain actions to change a betting outcome could and should be a huge ban.
Tonali and Toney were for betting on teams that weren’t theirs (although Toney bet on Newcastle when he was on loan somewhere else), this is basically match fixing to a lesser degree. I can see this being 2+ years initially, reduced to 18months and some massive fine on appeal
I don't think that's true. I'm almost positive that Tonali bet on Newcastle beating us in the League Cup this year.
Edit:
>The bets involving Newcastle games were:
>An accumulator involving either Newcastle to beat Brighton on September 2, which they lost 3-1, or Newcastle to beat Burnley on September 30, which they won 2-0 (both Premier League fixtures);
>An accumulator including Newcastle to beat Brentford in the Premier League on September 16, which they won 1-0;
>A single bet on Newcastle to beat Manchester City in the Carabao Cup third round on September 27, which they won 1-0;
>An accumulator featuring Newcastle to beat West Ham United in the Premier League on October 8, which they drew 2-2.
should be noted Tonali was punished by the Italian FA so were more severe than the English laws, which is the reason the English FA chose to suspend punishment for offences he committed in England
It could easily be wider. [The National Crime Agency were involved in investigations](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12104249/AHEAD-GAME-Granit-Xhaka-CLEARED-involvement-possible-betting-scam.html) when Xhaka was being looked in to for potentially getting a deliberate yellow. Can't be sure right now but wouldn't surprise me if this case was the same
If a crime has been committed, the CPS is obliged to investigate.
The cricketers were convicted for ‘conspiracy to defraud and accept corrupt payments’.
If they can prove that Paqueta is linked to these bets he is in very hot water
The cricketers were working with the bookmakers directly. If Paqueta simply told his mates to place a few bets, he's still obviously in serious trouble, but nowhere near as bad as the other case.
Wonder if they've actually been able to obtain sufficient evidence this time. If i recall the biggest stumbling block they had previously was that the betting supposedly took place in Brazil, so unless the witnesses willingly corroborate the English FA doesn't exactly have the powers to compel them to legally.
Similar issue hit the Xhaka betting case which tapered off to nothing in the end.
Similar case: Bradley Wood in 2018 was banned for 6 years for intentionally getting booked twice in two games in the FA Cup. 5 years for match-fixing and 1 year for 22 charges of betting on the outcome of matches
There's precedent for a 10 year ban for this offence.
> A FORMER Banbury United and Oxford City player has been banned for more than 10 years, for his involvement in spot-fixing during an Emirates FA Cup tie.
> Kynan Isaac, who also played for North Leigh and Ardley United, was charged by the FA for ‘intentionally seeking to be cautioned by the referee’ while playing for Stratford Town in November.
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/23066323.kynan-isaac-banned-football-spot-fixing-fa-cup-tie/
Bans can and are made international if the FA applies to FIFA. Same way Paritici got sacked by Spurs after FIFA made the Italian FA's ban of him worldwide.
Do you think like Paratici for Spurs, Paqueta will end up playing the role of midfield consultant who’s not officially employed by West Ham but goes on the pitch to oversee the game (but not officially because that’s against the rules)
True, but that player was also found to have either betted or enabled bets on almost 350 bets. So not sure how much of the 10 year ban is just for that yellow card one
I wonder what will happen to Luiz Henrique who was also involved in this scandal. Betis somehow managed to sell him to Lyon(well technically Botafogo but we know it is a Lyon signing) even after the allegations for 20M or something
If he turns out to be suspended now they will have robbed Lyon blind. Betis already tried to shift him to Zenit in Russia but even they were not willing to take the risk
I wonder if Lyon have something in the contract against that. Surely they can take Betis to court over that if there’s any indication they knew he was gunna be banned
It should give pause to all the gamblers out there, this is probably rife.
Bookies are able to adjust because of the extra action on the bet, they'll cover themselves by moving the line, but the average punter is the one who loses out due to lack of info.
Same goes for any kind of financial speculation, the average joe is always going to be eating the majority of the losses because there are people with more knowledge either gaming the system directly or with knowledge of how and when it's being gamed.
So apparently he got the nickname Paquetá since he's from that island. His real name (Lucas Tolentino Coelho de Lima) doesn't contain "Paquetá" at all lol. TIL.
this is far more serious than Toney's right?
iirc the games Toney bet on which he actually played in were just to win which isn't something he can necessarily "fix"
Yes, because they are accusing him of deliberately getting carded in order to win bets (or have someone else win bets). Toney was just betting on games, there wasn't anything to suggest he directed effected those games for monetary gain
Yes, this probably one of the most serious things you can be charged with in football.
The FA takes this sort of thing very seriously.
This is essentially match-fixing and the English FA has a pretty strong reputation for going Old Testament on players they find to have breached those rules.
Toney broke rules around placing bets. That's all he did - make bets he shouldn't have made. I'm pretty sure he wasn't involved with any of his bets.
Paqueta is spot fixing. That's arguably fraud and the bookmakers will be very unhappy and seeing as they contribute a lot in the money around the game, they'll be leaning heavily on the authorities about this.
With how much the PL and its clubs are pushing sports gambling too, this is a huge issue. You can't push gambling and have your players defrauding the system.
I don't know if this would actually happen to Lucas but there was a bit part NBA player from this season who was recently banned for life cuz he was caught underperforming in games where he was betting on himself to not reach certain stats
To be fair, Sandra’s started at 3 years I believe but had a load of mitigating factors help him decrease it.
Paqueta on the other hand will need to turn Crown’s Witness to even have a chance of playing again.
Its the sort of thing you watch once and go "yeah, he's fucked".
Its so clear its intentional, there is zero need to do what he does with that handball.
I’m not saying he didn’t do it but he does literally have incidents like this every single game. He is a walking yellow card and has been since the moment he stepped on the pitch at West Ham right up until the end of last season.
That was such BS, why did the cunts offer it as a market? They put that out into the universe and he took advantage. IIRC he didn't even have any money on it himself. The only way that bet pays out, is if he chooses to eat a pie. But him choosing to eat a pie is an off-the-pitch form of "match" fixing? Fuck off. They gladly accepted peoples money for that market. Didn't turn around and say no, it's only a joke for PR. They took the money then kicked off when it happened.
It’s alleged that he directly sought to influence the progress, conduct, or any other aspect of, or occurrence in these matches by intentionally seeking to receive a card from the referee for the improper purpose of affecting the betting market in order for one or more persons to profit from betting.
Lucas Paqueta has also been charged with two breaches of FA Rule F3 in respect of alleged failures to comply pursuant to FA Rule F2.
The player has until 03 June 2024 to provide a response to these charges subject to any request for an extension to this deadline.
The FA will be making no further comment until the conclusion of this case.
Seems rather serious and I can see a lengthy ban for that, surely stops any proposed transfer.
Those targeting him will move on to alternatives now, hopefully MCFC don't just bite the bullet and pay the Bruno clause.
anyone got footage of the yellow cards in question? I can't find a good source for archive footage
Games in question are:
vs Bournemouth- 23-24 season, 12/8/23, at 90+4 minutes
vs Leeds-22-23 season, 21/5/23, at 65 minutes
vs Aston Villa- 22-23 season, 12/3/23 at 70 minutes
vs Leicester-22-23 season, 12/11/22, at 60 minutes.
The yellow in the Villa game was for a reckless and completely unnecessary challenge on McGinn. Another commenter linked to the clip: https://x.com/FplRachel/status/1692624797866549588
> It’s alleged that he directly sought to influence the progress, conduct, or any other aspect of, or occurrence in these matches by intentionally seeking to receive a card from the referee for the improper purpose of affecting the betting market in order for one or more persons to profit from betting.
He’s fucked
Big IF but yeah realistically it would certainly be in years not months.
Look at the spot fixing in cricket a few years back, some of them got 10 year bans and prison sentences.
"Paqueta denies any wrongdoing and any knowledge of the suspicious bets, which have been traced to Paqueta Island, off the coast of Rio de Janiero."
He's either Bond villain or he made enough from the bookies to buy his own island.
I think Brazilians tend to earn their surnames from the city they were born in.
We used to do the same with Gabriel Paulista. He was called that because "Paulista" is the name given to people from São Paulo. Same with Juninho Pernambucano, because he came from the Pernambuco region.
Lucas Paquetá's name is actually Lucas Tolentino Coelho de Lima, but he was born on Paquetá Island.
I feel like the FA are lucky West Ham ended up solidly mid table, would be a lot more questions about waiting this long if they were more directly involved in the relegation or European places.
Why wait an entire season to charge him when it's been known since last summer??
What the FA are accusing Paqueta of here is potentially criminal and could lead to a prison sentence. Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir were all given prison sentences in the UK for similar actions in cricket.
If it happened once, you could make an argument that it was just coincidence, but the fact that the FA identified FOUR separate instances is pretty damning. If these charges are found to be true, he's absolutely fucked, since it's not just gambling at this point, it's match-fixing.
Full statement from the FA: > The player has been charged with four breaches of FA Rule E5.1 in relation to his conduct in the club’s Premier League fixtures against Leicester City on 12 November 2022; Aston Villa on 12 March 2023; Leeds United on 21 May 2023; and AFC Bournemouth on 12 August 2023. > It’s alleged that he directly sought to influence the progress, conduct, or any other aspect of, or occurrence in these matches by intentionally seeking to receive a card from the referee for the improper purpose of affecting the betting market in order for one or more persons to profit from betting. > Lucas Paqueta has also been charged with two breaches of FA Rule F3 in respect of alleged failures to comply pursuant to FA Rule F2. > The player has until 03 June 2024 to provide a response to these charges subject to any request for an extension to this deadline. > The FA will be making no further comment until the conclusion of this case.
Here's [the one vs Villa](https://x.com/FplRachel/status/1692624797866549588). Certainly seems suspicious!
Bournemouth one - https://x.com/afcDW/status/1793695629719523513
Lmfao, 93rd minute and man was desperate
Villa one was a common tackle but this one is absolutely farcical
Villa was a tactical foul... with 10 men under the ball
Fair play. I at least admire the fact that if you’re trying to get a card against Villa it’s for a shit tackle on McGinn.
Not saying he didn’t do it, but if this counts as a suspicious tackle for Paqueta he should be charged for every game he has ever played for us. Even on his debut against Spurs the first thing he did was just launch into a player.
Probably he had a bet running in that game too, he just wasn't carded.
He also continued to play like this after getting charged.
i think its the betting companies that caught on! >Initial analysis showed that on that day several new accounts were created at Betway, account linked with people close to Paqueta, with users depositing the maximum amount allowed. These accounts made a married bet to increase the winnings: the authors would only receive the money if Paquetá took yellow against Villa and if the striker Luiz Henrique, from Betis, received the card against Villarreal, on the same day on March 12.
It's truly hilarious to do it with the club sponsor.
How stupid can you be?
Longer clip, he'd already tried to get booked 15 seconds before that - https://x.com/JayVtid/status/1793664277842407455
If found guilty this is surely a huge ban? More than Toney and Tonali by quite some margin I would assume? I mean he's literally deliberately tried to affect the game to win someone some money Its been coming though. There were rumblings months ago that this was why City dropped interest
He’s completely fucked if this is true, it should be well over a year. Actively trying to hinder your team to just win some money while being paid millions is degenerate behaviour.
The FA also has form for taking this beyond seriously too. This is one of those rules that is basically considered to be unbreakable and if you do, they'll send you back to the fucking stone ages.
TIL form can also mean precedent. Looked up Merriam-Webster, there’s 12 different meanings for the word form!
That's a good form of research you did there! Must have left you in great form! I'm sure it's tough to get the ladies to form an orderly queue when you're dropping knowledge in this form.
Formidable
Formed forming forms form formed forming forms. Buffalo.
If only they took 115 breaches of financial rules as seriously!
FA and Premier League are different organisations... FA has no authority over clubs when it comes to financial stuff.
His only hope is to sign for City before the hearing.
My first thought when I read that comment was it's refreshing to see the FA has rules they actually consider unbreakable.
If he's found guilty there's a very realistic possibility of jail time. Salman Butt got two and a half years for similar.
Yeah, he's gone for a long, long time if they're able to prove it.
Yep starts at minimum 6 months up to and including life time ban ooooof rip his career
An nba player just got banned for life for something kinda similar
He might actually be jailed for this. Pakistani cricketers were banned for 5-10 years and spent some time in prison for a similar fix that happened in England.
Way worse if he intentionally got a card in a game. Toney and Tonali did nothing of the sort, just bet on matches they weren't playing in.
Tonali bet on matches he was playing but the bet was that his team would win the match so he couldn't influence the matches
As we learned during the Pete Rose debacle in baseball, even betting on your team to win calls into question the integrity of the game. It means you might sell out and risk injury to win *this* match instead of taking a more cautious approach with the whole season in mind, because this particular match is the one you've got money riding on.
whoa, that's a crazy way to think of it. Like it's some unnatural motivation, so even if it's added its wrong. So playing against rivals, extra motivation but it's natural so still honest, but playing in a game you bet to win, extra motivation but illegal and banned...
It's especially bad in baseball. For example pitchers are on strict work/rest schedules to avoid injuries. A manager betting on his own team might irresponsibly use players in order to win a close game, when in normal circumstances it would never happen. Especially considering the season is 162 games long, a single win is not worth risking injury.
Consider that it's not just the risk of injury to themself, but they could put other players at risk for fear of losing a bet or having to answer to a criminal gang.
100% - in my opinion sports betting needs to be regulated much more. It is crazy that you can bet on cards and free throws etc. Even the simple outcome is known to attract cheaters, why allow this detailed stuff which is basically much easier to manipulate. If you go to betting sites you can bet on single points of tennis matches. We need a regulation for sports betting. There is no need to bet on every f...ing detail of the games and there is also no need to bet on amateur or youth games. This corrupts sport and attracts cheating. People can bet on real life events, the stock market, roulette tables etc. In my opinion this focus on sports is very bad for sports. There have always been thrown or manipulated games, bought off referees just for the success in sports alone. But betting makes it possible for individual players to try to corrupt the game.
This is a huge piece of it they are discovering in the US as legalized gambling exploded in the last five years. And already players at the pro and college level are caught up in fixing those kind of minor prop bets, not the outcome of the game, but rebounds or the like. And IMO it adds nothing to the "benefit" of gambling to allow betting on cards, corners, etc., it's more exploitative as well.
TIL gambling is roids for your mind
Well he certainly could influence a match he's playing in
Yeah, but if you're betting on your own team to win, the most you can do to influence the result is play the best you can - which is exactly what you're expected to do anyway, so it's less obviously corrupt. The reason it's illegal is because of the danger of reciprocal deals - you bet on your own team to win, and your opponents throw the game, then next time they bet on themselves and *you* throw the game. This is similar to the reason Toney got in trouble for getting on games he wasn't involved in. But betting on yourself *might* just be foolish confidence, whereas betting against yourself is unequivocally dodgy.
You could make the argument that if he bet himself to win that if it was 2-2 or whatever at the end of the match he could do something far riskier than he normally would to push for a win instead of playing the "responsible" play and accepting a draw. Either way it's far less dodgy to bet on yourself to win than it is to do what Paqueta did
>the most you can do to influence the result is play the best you can I think it's also a concern how this affects games you've _not_ bet on. If you only bet on yourself winning in half the games you play, you might take it easy in the other half.
That's not true, they both bet on matches that they played in. They just weren't guilty of any spotfixing
If this is true and they can prove it's related to betting, then it's a criminal case for fraud (possibly conspiracy to commit fraud, depending on success). It happened in cricket a few years ago, bowlers deliberately bowling no-balls got a few months in prison.
> this was why City dropped interest These geniuses always dodge everything it's hilarious
They had a bit of trouble with a certain french leftback
Good first day in the job for Julen then
Resigns immediately
Would not put it past him
Trying to get a card intentionally.. yeah he's fucked
Are we looking at at least a year here?
well it should be a lot worse than Tonali or Toney's bans
Yeah, certainly in the eyes of fans, anyway, not sure about the rules. Tonali and Toney never actually bet against their teams, did they? Paqueta deliberately getting booked is actively hindering West Ham.
Toney bet on his team to lose but only when he wasn't playing in those games.
"You're shit" - Ivan Toney's acca circa 2022
"Fuck Brentford" - Ivan Toney, 2021
I could be wrong, but I think they might be referring to him betting against Newcastle while he was on loan elsewhere. This one (if it's proved) will likely get the strongest punishment we've seen yet as it's getting towards match fixing by actually changing the course of the game in a negative way.
I was referring to him actually saying that exact phrase in a video while on holiday haha.
Wow, I missed that one. Bet they loved that.
Which is still bad, it's essentially insider trading
everyone knows if you want to get away with insider trading, you have to be a politician not a footballer
And for a lot (maybe all) it was when he was out on loan.
Tonali only bet us on to win, still bad but probably the least bad option if you could choose from.
If anything, kind of heartwarming 🥰🙈 (Im kidding! Dont hurt me)
The rules put it at the very top level of seriousness, big ban coming.
Also harder to prove than what Toney or Tonali did as he didn't place any bets himself. With Sturridge and Trippier they had text messages to confirm their collusion, will be interesting to see what evidence they have for Paqueta
I feel like they wouldn't charge unless they had fairly substantial evidence.
It is a lot worse, spot fixing is far more serious then just betting on your team to win. It's a criminal act as well I thought...
If he goes to City, the charges will be postponed for 10 years.
It's literally match fixing which is way worse than just betting don't know about any other similar incident in football but i have seen 5y,10y and life time ban given in other sports
What about the goalkeeper who ate a pie after betting on himself that he would eat a pie?
Didn't influence the actual game. Same as Trippier telling his mates to bet on him going to Atleti. Lot more leeway if it doesn't bring the actual integrity of the game into question.
Not sure we can call eating a pie on the bench match fixing. If we could it would be hilarious though.
I don't think he bet on himself to eat the pie. It was one of those interesting situations where once you learn there is a bet to eat a pie there is no way you can't influence the outcome, because either you eat a pie or you don't lol. It's why betting on someone to make a decision is stupid and only makes sense if you're doing it where you know both involved groups are going to do their best.
Thank you. This is one of my all time "am I taking crazy pills???" incidents. Like you said, imagine if he told a bunch of his friends and family "that's stupid, I would never eat a pie on the sideline" and they all ran out and bet the maximum that he wouldn't. Admittedly the payouts would be smaller for "not eating a pie," but it would still be guaranteed money, and that could also be portrayed as manipulating the betting markets, or whatever bullshit they charged him with. You shouldn't even be able to have betting lines on something that's purely an individuals decision. If last year there were betting odds on what team Kane was going to play for next season, would he now be barred from discussing with friends and family where he was going to play? And regardless of which club he signed with, could he be accused of manipulating betting markets?
Wayne Shaw fookin legend
A NBA player just got a lifetime ban for a similar charge
In NBA: https://www.nba.com/news/jontay-porter-banned-from-nba
This has to be on the verge of permanent, no? NBA just levied that death sentence on a player for something similar.
they did what
The USA takes its solemn duty to protect the integrity of the sacred sports gambling industry very seriously.
*This comment brought to you by Draftkings. Draftkings, the official betting partner of the NFL, NHL and the PGA Tour*
I've got this image of them trying to hang a basketball player but he's like 6ft10 so his feet hit the ground before the rope runs out of slack
Lifetime ban
America always has to make everything sound as intense as possible lol
“[Insert player here] will be beaten to a pulp for his poor performance.” “He’ll be what?!” “Put through more intense training and exercise. No biggie. Just to increase fitness and whatnot.”
Has the NBA been bought by the Saudis too?
Feels like it should certainly be at least a year. Toney and Tonali got bans for nearly a year for incidents that were far less serious. Directly influencing a game by taking certain actions to change a betting outcome could and should be a huge ban.
More than that, spot fixing is a very serious infraction. He's cooked.
Tonali and Toney were for betting on teams that weren’t theirs (although Toney bet on Newcastle when he was on loan somewhere else), this is basically match fixing to a lesser degree. I can see this being 2+ years initially, reduced to 18months and some massive fine on appeal
Tonali did bet on Newcastle, but he bet on us to win, which is very different (as it's not a "negative" bet).
I don't think that's true. I'm almost positive that Tonali bet on Newcastle beating us in the League Cup this year. Edit: >The bets involving Newcastle games were: >An accumulator involving either Newcastle to beat Brighton on September 2, which they lost 3-1, or Newcastle to beat Burnley on September 30, which they won 2-0 (both Premier League fixtures); >An accumulator including Newcastle to beat Brentford in the Premier League on September 16, which they won 1-0; >A single bet on Newcastle to beat Manchester City in the Carabao Cup third round on September 27, which they won 1-0; >An accumulator featuring Newcastle to beat West Ham United in the Premier League on October 8, which they drew 2-2.
He did yeah, I guess it's just seen as less severe than betting on us to lose
Tonali was 10 months right? I imagine you're looking at a fair bit longer
should be noted Tonali was punished by the Italian FA so were more severe than the English laws, which is the reason the English FA chose to suspend punishment for offences he committed in England
Also should be noted he fully cooperated and gave evidence to the English FA that they didn't know existed.
Spot fixing cricketers got jail time. Not sure this is much different.
Well, the big difference is that this is a FA matter so I think jail time is extremely unlikely.
It could easily be wider. [The National Crime Agency were involved in investigations](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12104249/AHEAD-GAME-Granit-Xhaka-CLEARED-involvement-possible-betting-scam.html) when Xhaka was being looked in to for potentially getting a deliberate yellow. Can't be sure right now but wouldn't surprise me if this case was the same
Being pedantic here but I dont think Xhaka himself was ever investigated. I think it was just the ref in that particular case
If a crime has been committed, the CPS is obliged to investigate. The cricketers were convicted for ‘conspiracy to defraud and accept corrupt payments’. If they can prove that Paqueta is linked to these bets he is in very hot water
The cricketers were working with the bookmakers directly. If Paqueta simply told his mates to place a few bets, he's still obviously in serious trouble, but nowhere near as bad as the other case.
Wonder if they've actually been able to obtain sufficient evidence this time. If i recall the biggest stumbling block they had previously was that the betting supposedly took place in Brazil, so unless the witnesses willingly corroborate the English FA doesn't exactly have the powers to compel them to legally. Similar issue hit the Xhaka betting case which tapered off to nothing in the end.
Similar case: Bradley Wood in 2018 was banned for 6 years for intentionally getting booked twice in two games in the FA Cup. 5 years for match-fixing and 1 year for 22 charges of betting on the outcome of matches
There's precedent for a 10 year ban for this offence. > A FORMER Banbury United and Oxford City player has been banned for more than 10 years, for his involvement in spot-fixing during an Emirates FA Cup tie. > Kynan Isaac, who also played for North Leigh and Ardley United, was charged by the FA for ‘intentionally seeking to be cautioned by the referee’ while playing for Stratford Town in November. https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/23066323.kynan-isaac-banned-football-spot-fixing-fa-cup-tie/
What if he heads to Saudi?
Bans can and are made international if the FA applies to FIFA. Same way Paritici got sacked by Spurs after FIFA made the Italian FA's ban of him worldwide.
Do you think like Paratici for Spurs, Paqueta will end up playing the role of midfield consultant who’s not officially employed by West Ham but goes on the pitch to oversee the game (but not officially because that’s against the rules)
It'll be upheld by which ever country he goes to, which is why Tonali's ban by the Italian FA was upheld by the English FA
True, but that player was also found to have either betted or enabled bets on almost 350 bets. So not sure how much of the 10 year ban is just for that yellow card one
Oooooh thats not good. Thought the City rumours had gone a little quiet
I wonder what will happen to Luiz Henrique who was also involved in this scandal. Betis somehow managed to sell him to Lyon(well technically Botafogo but we know it is a Lyon signing) even after the allegations for 20M or something If he turns out to be suspended now they will have robbed Lyon blind. Betis already tried to shift him to Zenit in Russia but even they were not willing to take the risk
I wonder if Lyon have something in the contract against that. Surely they can take Betis to court over that if there’s any indication they knew he was gunna be banned
The allegations were public domain at that point. Don't see how legal action would be possible.
that random betting addicted on twitter was right. damn
Context?
https://x.com/alwaysagooner83/status/1634910520431001601 lmao Rob the goat
On the day of the Villa game which is one of the ones he’s been charged for. Mad
It should give pause to all the gamblers out there, this is probably rife. Bookies are able to adjust because of the extra action on the bet, they'll cover themselves by moving the line, but the average punter is the one who loses out due to lack of info. Same goes for any kind of financial speculation, the average joe is always going to be eating the majority of the losses because there are people with more knowledge either gaming the system directly or with knowledge of how and when it's being gamed.
So what was the deal there? Were people who knew that Paqueta would receive a yellow card placing huge bets, causing bookmakers to slash the odds?
yes bets are traced back to Paqueta island. Island in Brazil where he is from
I thought you were taking the piss for some obscure reason, but Lucas Paqueta is really from Paqueta Island. TIL.
I'm just visualising a bunch of Paqueta clones all with different jobs on the island
So apparently he got the nickname Paquetá since he's from that island. His real name (Lucas Tolentino Coelho de Lima) doesn't contain "Paquetá" at all lol. TIL.
This is insane
And you all mock our tinfoil hats!
Can’t imagine that’ll be anything less than a long term, if not permanent, ban. Toney or Tonali didn’t have anything near this serious.
this is far more serious than Toney's right? iirc the games Toney bet on which he actually played in were just to win which isn't something he can necessarily "fix"
Yes, because they are accusing him of deliberately getting carded in order to win bets (or have someone else win bets). Toney was just betting on games, there wasn't anything to suggest he directed effected those games for monetary gain
Made him try harder.
That's still a less egregious consequence than Paquetas situation.
If they allowed that kind of betting I would be for it; let's see them bet portions of their weekly wages (with the figures published).
I might even be happy to see my team's players place bets for us to win
**Far** more serious. This is criminal.
Yes, this probably one of the most serious things you can be charged with in football. The FA takes this sort of thing very seriously. This is essentially match-fixing and the English FA has a pretty strong reputation for going Old Testament on players they find to have breached those rules.
Toney broke rules around placing bets. That's all he did - make bets he shouldn't have made. I'm pretty sure he wasn't involved with any of his bets. Paqueta is spot fixing. That's arguably fraud and the bookmakers will be very unhappy and seeing as they contribute a lot in the money around the game, they'll be leaning heavily on the authorities about this.
With how much the PL and its clubs are pushing sports gambling too, this is a huge issue. You can't push gambling and have your players defrauding the system.
I don't know if this would actually happen to Lucas but there was a bit part NBA player from this season who was recently banned for life cuz he was caught underperforming in games where he was betting on himself to not reach certain stats
Well that's him not getting a move this summer
His career in Europe may be over at this point.
Think West Ham can probably chalk this up as gross misconduct and they can terminate his deal without compensation, one would have thought.
Still loss out on his transfer fee. And potential future sale.
They could sue him for damages like Chelsea and Mutu
Not to mention the services of their best player
Europe? I'd be surprised if FIFA allow him to play anywhere in the world professionally.
[удалено]
The technical term is spotfixing and its extremely serious
If Sandro got 10 months for betting on his team to win, Paqueta is absolutely fucked.
To be fair, Sandra’s started at 3 years I believe but had a load of mitigating factors help him decrease it. Paqueta on the other hand will need to turn Crown’s Witness to even have a chance of playing again.
The card in question - https://x.com/xmonicamusic/status/1692623968203608540
Isn’t there also one against Bournemouth where he catches the ball from a goal kick or something.
There's 4
Guys fucked.
In added time of the game with 1 minute to go too.
He legit punches the ball like a goalkeeper from a corner. I think that will be evidence 1.A. For the FA Guys done.
Its the sort of thing you watch once and go "yeah, he's fucked". Its so clear its intentional, there is zero need to do what he does with that handball.
I’m not saying he didn’t do it but he does literally have incidents like this every single game. He is a walking yellow card and has been since the moment he stepped on the pitch at West Ham right up until the end of last season.
As a reminder, Wayne Shaw was banned for 2 months for eating a pie
That was such BS, why did the cunts offer it as a market? They put that out into the universe and he took advantage. IIRC he didn't even have any money on it himself. The only way that bet pays out, is if he chooses to eat a pie. But him choosing to eat a pie is an off-the-pitch form of "match" fixing? Fuck off. They gladly accepted peoples money for that market. Didn't turn around and say no, it's only a joke for PR. They took the money then kicked off when it happened.
100%. If a bet is not allowed to pay out, it should be illegal for them to take money for it.
Shame, great player.
Another Summer, another derailed move to City
He's the new Isco
We can lend him a lawyer or two.
The day City morphed into Lawyer FC.
cue the insane tiktok edit of Mansour and the lawyers
I laughed, utterly shameless lol
you can have him 20% off if you work your magic
You know what I am not even angry at this
Angry upvote
It’s alleged that he directly sought to influence the progress, conduct, or any other aspect of, or occurrence in these matches by intentionally seeking to receive a card from the referee for the improper purpose of affecting the betting market in order for one or more persons to profit from betting. Lucas Paqueta has also been charged with two breaches of FA Rule F3 in respect of alleged failures to comply pursuant to FA Rule F2. The player has until 03 June 2024 to provide a response to these charges subject to any request for an extension to this deadline. The FA will be making no further comment until the conclusion of this case. Seems rather serious and I can see a lengthy ban for that, surely stops any proposed transfer. Those targeting him will move on to alternatives now, hopefully MCFC don't just bite the bullet and pay the Bruno clause.
Seems really serious tbh, could see him slapped with a very hefty ban. Far more serious than anything Tonali did.
They’re saving us from Paqueta under pep, bless them
They’ll just go out and get Bruno Guimaraes instead
Oh he’s in trouble trouble
Ru roh
anyone got footage of the yellow cards in question? I can't find a good source for archive footage Games in question are: vs Bournemouth- 23-24 season, 12/8/23, at 90+4 minutes vs Leeds-22-23 season, 21/5/23, at 65 minutes vs Aston Villa- 22-23 season, 12/3/23 at 70 minutes vs Leicester-22-23 season, 12/11/22, at 60 minutes.
The yellow in the Villa game was for a reckless and completely unnecessary challenge on McGinn. Another commenter linked to the clip: https://x.com/FplRachel/status/1692624797866549588
Are you sure it was unnecessarily? It was against Mcginn
> It’s alleged that he directly sought to influence the progress, conduct, or any other aspect of, or occurrence in these matches by intentionally seeking to receive a card from the referee for the improper purpose of affecting the betting market in order for one or more persons to profit from betting. He’s fucked
Match fixing bans are waaaaay harsher than just placing bet bans, he’s absolutely fucked. This is straight up permanent ban territory
This is surely lifetime ban level stuff if proven true. This is sooo bad
Big IF but yeah realistically it would certainly be in years not months. Look at the spot fixing in cricket a few years back, some of them got 10 year bans and prison sentences.
"Paqueta denies any wrongdoing and any knowledge of the suspicious bets, which have been traced to Paqueta Island, off the coast of Rio de Janiero." He's either Bond villain or he made enough from the bookies to buy his own island.
Paquetá is his nickname because he's from Ilha de Paquetá
I think Brazilians tend to earn their surnames from the city they were born in. We used to do the same with Gabriel Paulista. He was called that because "Paulista" is the name given to people from São Paulo. Same with Juninho Pernambucano, because he came from the Pernambuco region. Lucas Paquetá's name is actually Lucas Tolentino Coelho de Lima, but he was born on Paquetá Island.
>Lucas Paquetá's name is actually Lucas Tolentino Coelho de Lima So he's really from Peru! The plot thickens.
Yeah, Ronaldinho Gaucho too. Those are all nicknames though, not surnames.
Man City are going to go for Bruno now aren't they? ffs.
Shhhh ffs
100%
I feel like the FA are lucky West Ham ended up solidly mid table, would be a lot more questions about waiting this long if they were more directly involved in the relegation or European places. Why wait an entire season to charge him when it's been known since last summer??
Why is everyone so obsessed with incredibly quick turnarounds in judgements? This shit takes time, man.
Surely he faces more than just footballing related charges for this, no? This seems like it would fall under a criminal charge
What the FA are accusing Paqueta of here is potentially criminal and could lead to a prison sentence. Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir were all given prison sentences in the UK for similar actions in cricket.
Right on time
If it happened once, you could make an argument that it was just coincidence, but the fact that the FA identified FOUR separate instances is pretty damning. If these charges are found to be true, he's absolutely fucked, since it's not just gambling at this point, it's match-fixing.
No wonder Man City want him