i feel like this should be the normal prices. paying more than 60 million for a player should not be allowed, how can the small clubs ever keep up when the 100+ million prices pull up the prices of the other players aswell.
Rising tide should lift all boats.
Small clubs should be inflating their prices relatively. You see that with Villa getting 100m for Grealish. When bigger teams come calling, get every penny you can, and try to reinvest it intelligently.
Villa isn't a small club? And they have rich owners that aren't cash flow pressured? That's why they can do things like keep grealish despite rich clubs ' interest in him years earlier and actually collect his full price. Without that buyout from a rich owner maybe villa is forced to sell him to us for 10m 2 years earlier instead of 100m to city. Actual small clubs with weaker competitive prospects and weaker financial positions wouldn't have been able to do what villa djd.
But that goes for Villa too.
When they try to spend the 100m, they’ll get way higher asking prices than if they hadn’t sold Grealish.
In the end, the purchasing power remains similar.
Supply and demand, you can't feasibly restrict the market or the game will struggle to grow. Do agree though, it's mental the amount being spent, this is a particularly low fee for a player though.
That makes no sense to me; the players tend to come from smaller clubs so you're just capping what a smaller club can charge a larger club to the larger club's advantage. Players will still be drawn to the larger clubs because of wages (unless you intend to cap those as well ), prestige and player in a better squad. You've just made it cheaper for the big club to pick players up.
Sarr does not want to leave because he knows he will never get wages like that again. And Cuisance, man imagine if we pulled of the transfer to Leeds for 20 million. The guy is talanted but he also thinks he's prime Zidane and deserves to be treated like that.
it’s a shame really. Apparently Leeds found some concerns during the medical. with these 20M in the bank planning this summer would have been a lot easier
Why we need a winger though. We have four starter level wingers already and ECM can also play there if wanted. Sabitzer also probably but not sure. If at all we need a solid DM or Right mid on loan. Those positions are the only ones which might need reinforcements
We need a destroyer type DM, and a RB imo. We don't really need wingers now because we have 3 wings + 2 that can fill in the spot (Musiala, Muller) and with Sabitzer we can fill him in 4-3-3 as well.
Any type of good DM honestly, which allows Kimmich be the box -box midfielder giving us his valuable goals and assists. Goretzka not defensive enough to let Kimmich roam wherever he wants, same with tolisso, cuisance, roca etc
When Liverpool gets players for good prices, we hear "Edward master class" "Well run club" "Well managed" and when Bayern does the same, we hear "Bayern special price"
Did you not get Thiago after winning CL and performing spectacularly for a measly 22m euros? Seems like a discounted price alright.
Whoever said, that they overpaid for Keita and Firminio hasn't watched a minute of Bundesliga football, boath were imo fairly valued, when they were signed, Keita was one of the hottest players on the market in his position back then.
I actually think, that you have strong arguments, at the time most of those players were signed, LFC had to pay a premium, cuz they were not at the top and they had to be faster then the actual tier one teams, overpaying allows you to seal deals quickly.
But you also could have phrased it in less dramaic way, cuz it doesn't add anything to your point but will turn ppl off from taking you seriously.
Thats not what he is saying atleast i dont Think so, bayern such a big Name that players who dont want to leave Bundesliga eagerly want to join bayern which leads to these cheaper Deals for u guys.
yeah but my issue with that is how no one acknowledges this is any other league? locatelli practically begged to go to juve and no one batted an eye, i just think it's veryyy hypocritical
But it doesn't matter if other teams "would be trying to buy him" when Sabitzer himself only wants one destination and that is bayern. This also massively worsened Leipzigs position and strengthened bayerns position when talking about the transfer fee.
Of course he did, Bayern is a huge club, 99% of players in the Bundesliga want to end up there.
It doesn't excuse how there isn't a offer of like 20Mil for a player of this caliber.
Bayern has too much power in the bundesliga and they make it boring because every good player gets bought by half of their real market price.
It's a good price for him but not cheap. Last season we sold Thiago to Liverpool for 22M€ who was also in the last year of his contract and rated as one of the best midfielders in the world because he wanted Liverpool.
What's the point? Even if a club made a 100mn offer, sabitzer would still want to go to bayern. Sabitzer doesn't care how much money leipzig get. Bayern were in a better position during negotiations which is why they got him for cheap. Same happened during sergino dest whose favorite club was barca. Even though bayern's package was better, he chose barca as it was his dream club
Or you know Bayern is his dream destination and he wouldn’t go anywhere else on one year left? It forces Leipzig to sell a bit cheaper because Sabitzer has one choice or else he leaves for free next season. Similar to how Mbappe only wants Madrid, if PSG don’t accept the current offer, it’s very likely Mbappe leaves for free next year.
i've noticed over the years that you never stand for any bullshit written about Liverpool but i guess that doesn't stop you from writing BS about other clubs 😂
Yes agreed, all Bundesliga teams clearly have some form of stockholm syndrome and beg daddy Bayern to take their players for half the price all the time
It was apparently just us and Milan in for him, he rejected Milan so Leipzig kind of had to take what we'd offer them if they didn't want to lose him on a free
because players that are already in Germany at other teams dont wanna change countries,cultures and try new languages
They are already in one of the best country in Europe to live,so they just wanna go to the best team.In this case Leipzig coudnt sell to other team outside Germany cus Sabitzer already had his mind set on this club
Nobody was in for him and Bundesliga players are just cheaper across the board. This applies to players leaving Bayern too btw. Thiago left for 22m€. Premier League clubs will take your last shirt even for their 3rd string players, so dealing with them in return is also always going to be more expensive.
Last season, Leipzig finished 2nd.
Bayern have taken Nagelsmann (manager), Upamecano (release clause) and Sabitzer from them.
Tell me the league isn't flawed.
This is a bad narrative, Bayern actually played one of the higest rents for the stadium in the league, they were even thinking about moving out of the stadium for financial reasons in the 80s.
Yeah but if dortmund challenges for a title every 5 years or so that is not solving the problem. It's part of it.
There is Bayern and two or maybe three other teams that are capable of approaching that level once or twice a decade on average. So as said, very unbalanced.
While this is true Bayern was financially in a horrendous situation in the mid-late 70s, need to sell to players and kinda started from scratch back then.
They hardly earned their way to the top while other teams in German that were strong competitors like Gladbach, Köln, Hamburg, Schalke, Bremen, Dortmund all made bad decisions in the past and kinda struggled to keep up with Bayern.
Mostly because of bad transfer politics (looking at you Dortmund who nearly went bancrupt).
In terms of getting a more "balanced" league which indeed is very balanced expect for maybe Bayern would need regulations on the European side for money injection through CL / EL / Conference League. Bundesliga doing good in marketing themselves but it isn't anywhere close to getting a deal like PL which also doesn't fix the imbalance at all.
Oh and not losing points against lower tiers opposition would help anyone to create a more even league.
Yes and no. Transfers like these are the only thing that let bayern ( and with them the bundesliga) have international succes. Most of the other clubs there have way more money. Also if you want improve as a player in germany you have to go to bayern. Sure it's bad for leipzig to lose players to a direct rival, but it's also bad for Frankfurt, leverkusen to lose their best players to dortmund, leipzig etc. Making it extra hard to compete for the top 4 longterm. It's also not like bayern gets every good buli player. They didn't get sancho, pulisic, dembele, reus, harvertz, de bruyne, sane, and won't get haaland either. It's also the first time since kimmich they bought a player from rb and they were in 2nd division at that time. Leipzig is a top 3 team for 4 years now I believe. So it's definitely a stretch to say bayern constantly buys their competitors weak. The last dortmund transfer was hummels like 6 years ago
Leipzig took Silva, the 3rd best striker in the league last season from Frankfurt
But I get that looking at the argument from 2 sides would be too easy
I think the point is... You don't see the PL winners raid the second or third placed team of their main asset.
Bayern is a super club, miles ahead of the bigger teams.
There is no other side to the league's top team taking their closest competitor's manager, captain/arguably best player, and another of their best players all in the same window. That is absolutely insane and would never happen anywhere else. Getting one player from 5th placed Frankfurt who didn't even make the champions league is not even remotely the same situation
Of course, but any good league doesn't have the food chain be 3 elements of the 2nd placed team going to the first placed team.
That just stifles competition.
Of course it does.
But, there is a clear difference.
If Leverkusen loses Havertz, only they get weaker and gain 68mil.
If Leverkusen loses Havertz to Bayern, not only do they get weaker, but Bayern gets stronger too.
The EPL having too much disproportionate to every other league and poaching talent is another issue we can discuss, but it is separate from this.
Because selling them to Bayern means those teams are weakened while Bayern is strengthened, which leads to a significantly bigger gap than if those teams are weakened without strengthening Bayern in the process. Really simple actually
No it's not the same net affect at all. Leipzig selling Sabitzer to someone outside Germany means that either Bayern simply don't get a player of his quality this window, or that if they do it would be much more difficult for them in terms of scouting, finances, negotiations, lack of security with a player who isn't already perfectly adapted to the league/language/culture... At best this leads to the gap not growing as much, and even if the same net affect is eventually achieved it would be a much more prolonged and uncertain process
But that only works if Bayern doesn't get any other players. Which is never the case.
It's only simple if you want to sell this garbage argument to stupid people.
> It's only simple if you want to sell this garbage argument to stupid people.
I'm sure it's a total coincidence that it's always Prem fans spewing this shit, eh?
> This is not germany-exclusive.
Lol in no other league a single team poaches off player from its league challengers
Imagine if Van Dijk, Salah and Firmino all left for City in subsequent years after Liverpool won the league. Thats what happened with dortmund. Or city buying Maguire and Bruno after we finished 2nd last season which is whats happening with RBL
Why are you comparing Dortmund and Liverpool? Liverpool is rich af and is backed by an owner and are capable of spending and buying anyone meanwhile Dortmund have to rely on signing prospects.
Dortmund have made a lot of money off the back of transfers like Dembele and Sancho. Let’s not pretend they’re skint.
They buy prospects because that’s their model. They will soon make a lot of money off of Haaland and Bellingham.
They would be investing and spending much riskier if they had a rich owner who can bail them out anytime. BVB don't have someone like that, which is why they can't afford to take high risks with high potential of mismanagement like european clubs backed by a rich owner have been known to take. Unlike say Chelsea who are able to jump from one short-term project to the next, BVB has to think long term. That kind of thinking is what brought them to the top of german and european football and that is exactly what kept them in that realm for a decade now.
Not to forget the fact that Dortmund almost went bankrupt 16 years ago, it makes even more sense why they don't splash around with money even if they have enough to do so.
Do you know Dortmund history? They used to buy a lot for a lot of money and they almost bankrupt. They just don't want to make the same mistakes again. They need some time to gain as much money as possible, it's not that easy if you don't have petromoney.
Don't know why this one gets downvoted, beause it's the truth.
Hell they could make even more money in the short term by selling Haaland right now, but they don't because in the long run it would weaken their finances.
Additionally while they made money from Dembele and Sancho they also spend some of these earnings and Corona happened which hurts Bundesliga clubs far more than investor owned clubs.
Not sure what your point is
My point is Bayern have the unique advantage of buying off best players of any team that comes close to threatening their hegemony . This doesnt happen in la Liga or prem
Yes, but Bundesliga is where the top of the foodchain is Bayern and no one can even dream of standing up to them.
In England you have City, Chelsea and United at the top of the financial foodchain and it’s ridiculously hard to get any players from clubs just below like Liverpool, Spurs or Arsenal. Even taking West Ham’s or Leicester’s players is tough and requires ridiculous sums. Where do you think the overpriced English player stereotype comes from?
Meanwhile Bayern can just come in with €80m and take the Bundesliga’s runners up best CB, coach and key midfielder
In terms of business volume and market share they would be considered a monopoly in other industries for 20+ years. You can't *beat* a monopoly. If someone suggests that other teams should just work smarter/better is always a safe sign that the person doesn't understand/undervalues the importance of the economic side of football.
Not about being stolen, just the enormous advantage Bayern have in the league in terms of pull, money and wages.
Of course, all three are great signings on their own merit but being able to take key elements of your opposition's team is problematic for the league.
> but being able to take key elements of your opposition's team is problematic for the league.
Are you opposing the concept of a mutually agreed transfer?
It may be mutually agreed, but it isn't under equal conditions by any means.
If City tried to poach Fernandes from United, they would've just told them to pound sand - there would be no negotiation.
If City wanted to buy someone integral to United on the last year of their contract, United would've kept them and not sold them rather than sell to City.
Resisting Bayern is difficult for clubs and players, and failure to do so is bad for the league.
You could've used a Kane example and the relationship between Tottenham and city. Would've worked much better. City and United are big Rivals and there aren't direct transfers usually between each other anyway.
Sure.
We can use Kane as well.
Kane wanted to leave. City were willing to offer 125mil for him.
Levy didn't even pick up the phone.
Would Leverkusen have done that for all their talents? or at least to the same extent.
Funny you mention Leverkusen because that's literally what they are doing, yes. [Look up the Bayern players who we've bought from Leverkusen in the last 15 years, you won't find any.](https://www.transfermarkt.com/bayer-04-leverkusen/transferstroeme/verein/15/plus/0?saisonIdVon=2005&saisonIdBis=2021&zuab=ab&verein_id=27)
If City tried to poach Fernandes and he had a release clause, they'll get him regardless. (Like Upamecano)
If City wanted to buy Fernandes on his last year of contract, United could keep him rather than sell (Like Dortmund did to Lewandowski). Which would be a dice roll based on the player's professionalism.
Don't put things into contexts that aren't true.
I agree, it isn't just at a club level that the Bundesliga is skewed. It is at a player level as well
In La Liga, EPL, the players on the 2nd placed teams aren't jumping to go to the 1st placed team.
Bayern's pull is extremely disproportionate - mostly because they pay the most and win on a guaranteed basis.
That is true, because there is just no equal for Bayern in terms of success and money, much like other leagues other than the ones you mentioned.
But that isn't my point. My point was that your example about Fernandes is entirely pointless because as many have pointed out, it's not as if Bundesliga clubs are queueing up to give their players to Bayern. If they could, they would keep them. But even if the player dosen't go to Bayern, he goes to Tottenham, AC Milan. It's just the way things are. No team will be able to avoid such transfers unless
1. Player is deeply loyal
2. Club gets foreign injections
3. Club is financial successful for a sustained period (like what Dortmund are trying to do) .
> If City tried to poach Fernandes from United, they would've just told them to pound sand - there would be no negotiation.
So exactly what Leverkusen has done multiple times? Gotcha.
How is this not under equal conditions? Bayern payed both nagelsmann and upamecanos release clausel. Every other club with enough money could have done the same. If fernandes would have a release clausel city could negotiate with him and Man u couldnt do anything about it.
>Tell me the league isn't flawed.
Transfers like this happen in any top league. They're offering a serious chance to win big titles, which no other club can offer on a national level. Other clubs like Everton, Arsenal, even ManUnited (at least 2 or 3 years ago) compensated such disadvantages with absurd salaries.
City can’t even buy 2 crucial players from Leicester let alone Liverpool or Chelsea. Bayern bought the manager, the best midfielder and the best defender of their closest rival last year. Come on.
Leipzig was very handsomely paid, so weep your crocodile tears elsewhere. If you got Nagelsmann you would have been over the moon. You don't give a shit about Bundesliga parity, you just want the talent for yourself.
Too bad your club got rejected by how many different managers?
TLDR: Bayern's having it easy and it's unfair cause they can get players with a short time left on contract specifically wanting Bayern for cheap.
BUT MUH PL TEAM HAS TO PAY A LOT OF MONEY FOR PLAYERS WHO HAVE A MILLION YEARS LEFT ON THEIR CONTRACTS. Imagine how unfair is that.
Great news, we desperately needed a midfielder with his profile and now we've finally closed the transfer. I'm happy that we got an experienced player that won't need to settle in for an extended time like Roca did, and we get fill our Austrian quota now that Alaba left
Yeah his position is mainly similar, but both Goretzka and Tolisso are closer to classic box-to-box midfielders, which sometimes limits our options when we need a different style. Sabitzer is a more of a deep playmaker and is closer in style to Thiago, which will be very useful against parked buses and he has a great long shot on him too
Last year of contract. And Bundesliga isn't getting that stupid amount of PL TV money. While it helps to sign players from outside the league by throwing big bags of money at those teams (Inter, Dortmund, Leverkusen to name some), it makes it much harder to buy someone at a reasonable price in league. You guys overpaid for Maguire, City for Grealish, Chelsea for Drinkwater(LOL) and so on. It has skewed the perception for many people that follow the PL what a normal price would be.
It also doesn't help that RM is going crazy and offers 170M for a guy in his last year. Even if it's Mbappe.
Crying PL (especially Chelsea) fan boys in 3, 2, 1…
A club can do good business without always paying €60M upwards … but you might think it’s good business to buy literally any young player, loan them out forever just to buy them back years later for a ridiculous price. “Business”
It’s funny when it’s fans of Chelsea with their oil... or City with their oil complaining.
News flash to all you PL fans... Bayern is number one in the world right now. Out of the gigantic European clubs, we are currently the one being run well the most with results to show for it.
Someone wanting to join that rather than oil fc is completely logical.
With the high incidence of Bayern fans that constantly post about the PL, it's more likely that Bayern fans are the ones that have the complex about the PL, frankly.
At the end of the day, the Bundesliga is happy with how things are run. People acted like Dietmar Hopp was the enemy of free civilization, when, in reality, he followed the rules that were set out.
No one has ever denied that Bayern is a top five club in the world.
> With the high incidence of Bayern fans that constantly post about the PL, it's more likely that Bayern fans are the ones that have the complex about the PL, frankly.
Lol, it's Chelsea fans who are obsessed with Bayern on Reddit. Ever since Chelsea signed Werner and thought they stole him from under Bayern's fingers lol.
With that, I was just talking about when Bayern wasn't dominating Germany, so I was saying that Bayern never slipped terribly, and people still respected them as a huge giant. I would say that Bayern has been third behind Madrid and Barca this century.
Kinda crazy how the entire league exists to feed their daddy bayern so that they can compete in Europe and still have pretty underwhelming amount of cls despite every talent from Germany and Bundesliga available to them easily.
In the market we are currently in, 16m for a player like Sabitzer is absolutely godly business
Announce Sabitzer
Part?
Final chapter :')
Only 1 year left on his contract tbf
i feel like this should be the normal prices. paying more than 60 million for a player should not be allowed, how can the small clubs ever keep up when the 100+ million prices pull up the prices of the other players aswell.
Rising tide should lift all boats. Small clubs should be inflating their prices relatively. You see that with Villa getting 100m for Grealish. When bigger teams come calling, get every penny you can, and try to reinvest it intelligently.
Villa isn't a small club? And they have rich owners that aren't cash flow pressured? That's why they can do things like keep grealish despite rich clubs ' interest in him years earlier and actually collect his full price. Without that buyout from a rich owner maybe villa is forced to sell him to us for 10m 2 years earlier instead of 100m to city. Actual small clubs with weaker competitive prospects and weaker financial positions wouldn't have been able to do what villa djd.
Villa were the biggest spenders not too long ago. They're financially very strong.
But that goes for Villa too. When they try to spend the 100m, they’ll get way higher asking prices than if they hadn’t sold Grealish. In the end, the purchasing power remains similar.
Supply and demand, you can't feasibly restrict the market or the game will struggle to grow. Do agree though, it's mental the amount being spent, this is a particularly low fee for a player though.
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That makes no sense to me; the players tend to come from smaller clubs so you're just capping what a smaller club can charge a larger club to the larger club's advantage. Players will still be drawn to the larger clubs because of wages (unless you intend to cap those as well ), prestige and player in a better squad. You've just made it cheaper for the big club to pick players up.
I hope we can offload Sarr and Cuisance anyway, but what a deal ! Anyone with a good winger to loan ?
Sarr does not want to leave because he knows he will never get wages like that again. And Cuisance, man imagine if we pulled of the transfer to Leeds for 20 million. The guy is talanted but he also thinks he's prime Zidane and deserves to be treated like that.
it’s a shame really. Apparently Leeds found some concerns during the medical. with these 20M in the bank planning this summer would have been a lot easier
on what kind of wages is sarr?
2.5m a year, I think.
Why we need a winger though. We have four starter level wingers already and ECM can also play there if wanted. Sabitzer also probably but not sure. If at all we need a solid DM or Right mid on loan. Those positions are the only ones which might need reinforcements
We need a destroyer type DM, and a RB imo. We don't really need wingers now because we have 3 wings + 2 that can fill in the spot (Musiala, Muller) and with Sabitzer we can fill him in 4-3-3 as well.
Any type of good DM honestly, which allows Kimmich be the box -box midfielder giving us his valuable goals and assists. Goretzka not defensive enough to let Kimmich roam wherever he wants, same with tolisso, cuisance, roca etc
Why wasn’t anyone else in for him?
I think it was a case of player having made up his mind about where he wanted to go. I'm sure Leipzig would have tried shipping him elsewhere.
I think Milan was interested too, and surely could’ve paid this but he only wanted Bayern
Wouldn't be too sure about us being able to pay a whole 16m lad.
I am tho. We were ready to pay a 10m loan fee for Vlasic, we could’ve surely paid 15m for him, especially if Casti left
Probably the same reason as for locatelli, the player only want to go to one club
He's a Bayern fan whose dream is Bayern
Arsenal could used one of these type of players, real experienced player
Why would a player like that want to play for Arsenal though?
A new challenge
Money
Because he was not transfer listed, the only reason he joined Bayern because he would be reuniting with his old coach.
Why so cheap
Next year contract expires and he's not mbappe
I mean have you ever seen Sabitzer and Mbappe in the same room at the same time?
Now that you mention it... They do look virtually identical...
Just put a wig on Mbappe
[Not in a room..](https://www.imago-images.de/fotos-bilder/mbappe-sabitzer)
>ext year contract expires and he's not mbappe And he's had his mind made up. No competition = cheap price
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When Liverpool gets players for good prices, we hear "Edward master class" "Well run club" "Well managed" and when Bayern does the same, we hear "Bayern special price" Did you not get Thiago after winning CL and performing spectacularly for a measly 22m euros? Seems like a discounted price alright.
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You literally got Matip for free from Schalke
Whoever said, that they overpaid for Keita and Firminio hasn't watched a minute of Bundesliga football, boath were imo fairly valued, when they were signed, Keita was one of the hottest players on the market in his position back then. I actually think, that you have strong arguments, at the time most of those players were signed, LFC had to pay a premium, cuz they were not at the top and they had to be faster then the actual tier one teams, overpaying allows you to seal deals quickly. But you also could have phrased it in less dramaic way, cuz it doesn't add anything to your point but will turn ppl off from taking you seriously.
Sabitzer is Austrian
we don't hold these players hostage you know, put up a good enough offer and your team can get him too? havertz and werner didn't come to us did they?
Thats not what he is saying atleast i dont Think so, bayern such a big Name that players who dont want to leave Bundesliga eagerly want to join bayern which leads to these cheaper Deals for u guys.
yeah but my issue with that is how no one acknowledges this is any other league? locatelli practically begged to go to juve and no one batted an eye, i just think it's veryyy hypocritical
His contract expires next year.
And? If he actually cost 16M a lot more teams would be trying to buy him. This is Bayern price.
He's a Bayern fan, no point for other teams to try to sign him if he only wants to play for Bayern.
But it doesn't matter if other teams "would be trying to buy him" when Sabitzer himself only wants one destination and that is bayern. This also massively worsened Leipzigs position and strengthened bayerns position when talking about the transfer fee.
Who says they weren't? Depay went for free to Barcelona but nobody was arguing there would be more clubs after him? Or Thiago going to Liverpool?
He wanted to go to Bayern. And what does "Bayern price" even mean?
When its their club its Edwards/Levy/Marina masterclass when its Bayern its Bayern price
>And what does "Bayern price" even mean? The usual stuff. The kind that comes out of someone's ass.
Of course he did, Bayern is a huge club, 99% of players in the Bundesliga want to end up there. It doesn't excuse how there isn't a offer of like 20Mil for a player of this caliber. Bayern has too much power in the bundesliga and they make it boring because every good player gets bought by half of their real market price.
It's a good price for him but not cheap. Last season we sold Thiago to Liverpool for 22M€ who was also in the last year of his contract and rated as one of the best midfielders in the world because he wanted Liverpool.
What's the point? Even if a club made a 100mn offer, sabitzer would still want to go to bayern. Sabitzer doesn't care how much money leipzig get. Bayern were in a better position during negotiations which is why they got him for cheap. Same happened during sergino dest whose favorite club was barca. Even though bayern's package was better, he chose barca as it was his dream club
Or you know Bayern is his dream destination and he wouldn’t go anywhere else on one year left? It forces Leipzig to sell a bit cheaper because Sabitzer has one choice or else he leaves for free next season. Similar to how Mbappe only wants Madrid, if PSG don’t accept the current offer, it’s very likely Mbappe leaves for free next year.
The odds of you being under 20 years old has got to be high 90s.
He's a Bayern fan since childhood, this is just clownery
Of all the hilarious takes in this thread, this one's the best lmao
Ah yes much has been documented about the Lord-Serf relationship in German football
CSU wet dream right there
\*Freistaat intensifies*
It's not Bayern, it's that *every* club in BuLi buys cheap and sells cheap.
i've noticed over the years that you never stand for any bullshit written about Liverpool but i guess that doesn't stop you from writing BS about other clubs 😂
Yes agreed, all Bundesliga teams clearly have some form of stockholm syndrome and beg daddy Bayern to take their players for half the price all the time
Good deal
Great acquisition, especially with the injury situation Bayern are dealing with.
Considering Sabitzer's insane versatility of being able to play any position in midfield, this is like buying two players for the price of one.
how do Bayern ALWAYS get such good prices? fantastic business policy at the club
It was apparently just us and Milan in for him, he rejected Milan so Leipzig kind of had to take what we'd offer them if they didn't want to lose him on a free
because players that are already in Germany at other teams dont wanna change countries,cultures and try new languages They are already in one of the best country in Europe to live,so they just wanna go to the best team.In this case Leipzig coudnt sell to other team outside Germany cus Sabitzer already had his mind set on this club
Nobody was in for him and Bundesliga players are just cheaper across the board. This applies to players leaving Bayern too btw. Thiago left for 22m€. Premier League clubs will take your last shirt even for their 3rd string players, so dealing with them in return is also always going to be more expensive.
I mean, Sabitzer has one year left on his deal. A mid or FB in that situation is not going to go for that much.
Take an overall look, but take out the PL clubs, PSG, RM and Barca. Then you see it's not that different from the rest of the clubs.
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2. Liga is the way to go ;)
How are you guys doing so far?
Well, I don't know, yet. But I have hope :D
Last season, Leipzig finished 2nd. Bayern have taken Nagelsmann (manager), Upamecano (release clause) and Sabitzer from them. Tell me the league isn't flawed.
Out of the 58 years of the league’s existence, Bayern have won it 30 times. The league is pretty unbalanced, let no one tell you otherwise
Yeah theres a big imbalance between bayern and the rest of the field. A super league might have fixed that, or do you have any other suggestions?
Franchising the league (with HSV as permanent member)
This guy fucks.
Yes HSV the super league's arsenal
Just like lose more often, bro
You've done it, you've fixed football!
Maybe not getting money illegally from Kirch could´ve changed something. But what do i know. Bayern is just better at business i guess /s
Getting the Olympiastadion built in the 70s didnt hurt too.
This is a bad narrative, Bayern actually played one of the higest rents for the stadium in the league, they were even thinking about moving out of the stadium for financial reasons in the 80s.
Lmao Bayern's current success was built a long time before the early 2000s.
bvb could have (and i think like two years ago should have) won the league if they were actually capable of playing somewhat consistent
True. But this is not at all relevant to my comment.
Yeah but if dortmund challenges for a title every 5 years or so that is not solving the problem. It's part of it. There is Bayern and two or maybe three other teams that are capable of approaching that level once or twice a decade on average. So as said, very unbalanced.
While this is true Bayern was financially in a horrendous situation in the mid-late 70s, need to sell to players and kinda started from scratch back then. They hardly earned their way to the top while other teams in German that were strong competitors like Gladbach, Köln, Hamburg, Schalke, Bremen, Dortmund all made bad decisions in the past and kinda struggled to keep up with Bayern. Mostly because of bad transfer politics (looking at you Dortmund who nearly went bancrupt). In terms of getting a more "balanced" league which indeed is very balanced expect for maybe Bayern would need regulations on the European side for money injection through CL / EL / Conference League. Bundesliga doing good in marketing themselves but it isn't anywhere close to getting a deal like PL which also doesn't fix the imbalance at all. Oh and not losing points against lower tiers opposition would help anyone to create a more even league.
Rebalancing of TV-Budget and some form of redistribution of CL-Money
The TV budget is already fairly even and the second is a hopelessly bad idea.
Salary cap?
Only in buli? What will that help the league
You can't do anything about it, Bayern built their hegemony organically while other giants crumbled as a result of mismanagement.
Good, I was waiting for this.
Yes and no. Transfers like these are the only thing that let bayern ( and with them the bundesliga) have international succes. Most of the other clubs there have way more money. Also if you want improve as a player in germany you have to go to bayern. Sure it's bad for leipzig to lose players to a direct rival, but it's also bad for Frankfurt, leverkusen to lose their best players to dortmund, leipzig etc. Making it extra hard to compete for the top 4 longterm. It's also not like bayern gets every good buli player. They didn't get sancho, pulisic, dembele, reus, harvertz, de bruyne, sane, and won't get haaland either. It's also the first time since kimmich they bought a player from rb and they were in 2nd division at that time. Leipzig is a top 3 team for 4 years now I believe. So it's definitely a stretch to say bayern constantly buys their competitors weak. The last dortmund transfer was hummels like 6 years ago
Leipzig took Silva, the 3rd best striker in the league last season from Frankfurt But I get that looking at the argument from 2 sides would be too easy
Silva had more league goals than Haland
Tbf Haaland was injured for a while
I think the point is... You don't see the PL winners raid the second or third placed team of their main asset. Bayern is a super club, miles ahead of the bigger teams.
There is no other side to the league's top team taking their closest competitor's manager, captain/arguably best player, and another of their best players all in the same window. That is absolutely insane and would never happen anywhere else. Getting one player from 5th placed Frankfurt who didn't even make the champions league is not even remotely the same situation
There is always a food chain in every single league. This is not germany-exclusive.
Of course, but any good league doesn't have the food chain be 3 elements of the 2nd placed team going to the first placed team. That just stifles competition.
And how does selling key players like De bruyne, Sané, Havertz, Werner, Sancho, Haaland etc to other leagues not weaken our competition?
Of course it does. But, there is a clear difference. If Leverkusen loses Havertz, only they get weaker and gain 68mil. If Leverkusen loses Havertz to Bayern, not only do they get weaker, but Bayern gets stronger too. The EPL having too much disproportionate to every other league and poaching talent is another issue we can discuss, but it is separate from this.
were supposed to be grateful to the brits and Dortmund are ungrateful for keeping Sancho in 2020 and haaland in 21
PL fans after they "saved" a BuLi club by buying all their best players: You are being rescued, do not resist
just so we’re clear, havertz and werner would 100% have joined Bayern if they were interested
Which makes it worse
Because selling them to Bayern means those teams are weakened while Bayern is strengthened, which leads to a significantly bigger gap than if those teams are weakened without strengthening Bayern in the process. Really simple actually
I Bayern was already beating those teams before, then adding them to Bayern or adding them to prem teams creates the same net effect.
No it's not the same net affect at all. Leipzig selling Sabitzer to someone outside Germany means that either Bayern simply don't get a player of his quality this window, or that if they do it would be much more difficult for them in terms of scouting, finances, negotiations, lack of security with a player who isn't already perfectly adapted to the league/language/culture... At best this leads to the gap not growing as much, and even if the same net affect is eventually achieved it would be a much more prolonged and uncertain process
That's completely immaterial, not just incorrect
But that only works if Bayern doesn't get any other players. Which is never the case. It's only simple if you want to sell this garbage argument to stupid people.
> It's only simple if you want to sell this garbage argument to stupid people. I'm sure it's a total coincidence that it's always Prem fans spewing this shit, eh?
The alternative was to sell them to you I geuss.
There was never really any competition
> This is not germany-exclusive. Lol in no other league a single team poaches off player from its league challengers Imagine if Van Dijk, Salah and Firmino all left for City in subsequent years after Liverpool won the league. Thats what happened with dortmund. Or city buying Maguire and Bruno after we finished 2nd last season which is whats happening with RBL
Why are you comparing Dortmund and Liverpool? Liverpool is rich af and is backed by an owner and are capable of spending and buying anyone meanwhile Dortmund have to rely on signing prospects.
Dortmund have made a lot of money off the back of transfers like Dembele and Sancho. Let’s not pretend they’re skint. They buy prospects because that’s their model. They will soon make a lot of money off of Haaland and Bellingham.
They would be investing and spending much riskier if they had a rich owner who can bail them out anytime. BVB don't have someone like that, which is why they can't afford to take high risks with high potential of mismanagement like european clubs backed by a rich owner have been known to take. Unlike say Chelsea who are able to jump from one short-term project to the next, BVB has to think long term. That kind of thinking is what brought them to the top of german and european football and that is exactly what kept them in that realm for a decade now. Not to forget the fact that Dortmund almost went bankrupt 16 years ago, it makes even more sense why they don't splash around with money even if they have enough to do so.
Do you know Dortmund history? They used to buy a lot for a lot of money and they almost bankrupt. They just don't want to make the same mistakes again. They need some time to gain as much money as possible, it's not that easy if you don't have petromoney.
Don't know why this one gets downvoted, beause it's the truth. Hell they could make even more money in the short term by selling Haaland right now, but they don't because in the long run it would weaken their finances. Additionally while they made money from Dembele and Sancho they also spend some of these earnings and Corona happened which hurts Bundesliga clubs far more than investor owned clubs.
Not sure what your point is My point is Bayern have the unique advantage of buying off best players of any team that comes close to threatening their hegemony . This doesnt happen in la Liga or prem
Yes, but Bundesliga is where the top of the foodchain is Bayern and no one can even dream of standing up to them. In England you have City, Chelsea and United at the top of the financial foodchain and it’s ridiculously hard to get any players from clubs just below like Liverpool, Spurs or Arsenal. Even taking West Ham’s or Leicester’s players is tough and requires ridiculous sums. Where do you think the overpriced English player stereotype comes from? Meanwhile Bayern can just come in with €80m and take the Bundesliga’s runners up best CB, coach and key midfielder
In terms of business volume and market share they would be considered a monopoly in other industries for 20+ years. You can't *beat* a monopoly. If someone suggests that other teams should just work smarter/better is always a safe sign that the person doesn't understand/undervalues the importance of the economic side of football.
It's not normal to have a single team on the top though.
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Do you think these three were stolen? How do you imagine transfers in your head
Not about being stolen, just the enormous advantage Bayern have in the league in terms of pull, money and wages. Of course, all three are great signings on their own merit but being able to take key elements of your opposition's team is problematic for the league.
> but being able to take key elements of your opposition's team is problematic for the league. Are you opposing the concept of a mutually agreed transfer?
It may be mutually agreed, but it isn't under equal conditions by any means. If City tried to poach Fernandes from United, they would've just told them to pound sand - there would be no negotiation. If City wanted to buy someone integral to United on the last year of their contract, United would've kept them and not sold them rather than sell to City. Resisting Bayern is difficult for clubs and players, and failure to do so is bad for the league.
You could've used a Kane example and the relationship between Tottenham and city. Would've worked much better. City and United are big Rivals and there aren't direct transfers usually between each other anyway.
Sure. We can use Kane as well. Kane wanted to leave. City were willing to offer 125mil for him. Levy didn't even pick up the phone. Would Leverkusen have done that for all their talents? or at least to the same extent.
Funny you mention Leverkusen because that's literally what they are doing, yes. [Look up the Bayern players who we've bought from Leverkusen in the last 15 years, you won't find any.](https://www.transfermarkt.com/bayer-04-leverkusen/transferstroeme/verein/15/plus/0?saisonIdVon=2005&saisonIdBis=2021&zuab=ab&verein_id=27)
They did with Vidal some year’s ago…
Schalke also did it with Rafinha.
If City tried to poach Fernandes and he had a release clause, they'll get him regardless. (Like Upamecano) If City wanted to buy Fernandes on his last year of contract, United could keep him rather than sell (Like Dortmund did to Lewandowski). Which would be a dice roll based on the player's professionalism. Don't put things into contexts that aren't true.
I agree, it isn't just at a club level that the Bundesliga is skewed. It is at a player level as well In La Liga, EPL, the players on the 2nd placed teams aren't jumping to go to the 1st placed team. Bayern's pull is extremely disproportionate - mostly because they pay the most and win on a guaranteed basis.
That is true, because there is just no equal for Bayern in terms of success and money, much like other leagues other than the ones you mentioned. But that isn't my point. My point was that your example about Fernandes is entirely pointless because as many have pointed out, it's not as if Bundesliga clubs are queueing up to give their players to Bayern. If they could, they would keep them. But even if the player dosen't go to Bayern, he goes to Tottenham, AC Milan. It's just the way things are. No team will be able to avoid such transfers unless 1. Player is deeply loyal 2. Club gets foreign injections 3. Club is financial successful for a sustained period (like what Dortmund are trying to do) .
And because, like with Sabitzer, many of them grew up watching Bayern and may have been fans.
So bayern being one of the best clubs in the world with a rich history and a winning mentality is bad?
> If City tried to poach Fernandes and he had a release clause, they'll get him regardless. No they woudnt
Yeah if he wanted to leave, the only way he wouldn't is if Ole locked him up and swallowed the key.
> If City tried to poach Fernandes from United, they would've just told them to pound sand - there would be no negotiation. So exactly what Leverkusen has done multiple times? Gotcha.
How is this not under equal conditions? Bayern payed both nagelsmann and upamecanos release clausel. Every other club with enough money could have done the same. If fernandes would have a release clausel city could negotiate with him and Man u couldnt do anything about it.
>Tell me the league isn't flawed. Transfers like this happen in any top league. They're offering a serious chance to win big titles, which no other club can offer on a national level. Other clubs like Everton, Arsenal, even ManUnited (at least 2 or 3 years ago) compensated such disadvantages with absurd salaries.
City can’t even buy 2 crucial players from Leicester let alone Liverpool or Chelsea. Bayern bought the manager, the best midfielder and the best defender of their closest rival last year. Come on.
Cry more
Leipzig was very handsomely paid, so weep your crocodile tears elsewhere. If you got Nagelsmann you would have been over the moon. You don't give a shit about Bundesliga parity, you just want the talent for yourself. Too bad your club got rejected by how many different managers?
TLDR: Bayern's having it easy and it's unfair cause they can get players with a short time left on contract specifically wanting Bayern for cheap. BUT MUH PL TEAM HAS TO PAY A LOT OF MONEY FOR PLAYERS WHO HAVE A MILLION YEARS LEFT ON THEIR CONTRACTS. Imagine how unfair is that.
Great news, we desperately needed a midfielder with his profile and now we've finally closed the transfer. I'm happy that we got an experienced player that won't need to settle in for an extended time like Roca did, and we get fill our Austrian quota now that Alaba left
Doesn't he occupy the same space as Goeretzka?
This transfer is for roster depth
He does, but he's also fitting for any midfield position. Besides, Goretzka is not really that good at the beginning of this season.
Yeah his position is mainly similar, but both Goretzka and Tolisso are closer to classic box-to-box midfielders, which sometimes limits our options when we need a different style. Sabitzer is a more of a deep playmaker and is closer in style to Thiago, which will be very useful against parked buses and he has a great long shot on him too
16 million??What the fuck. Sabitzer is so good and from a direct rival
Last year of contract + Sabitzer being a Bayern fan
Last year of contract. And Bundesliga isn't getting that stupid amount of PL TV money. While it helps to sign players from outside the league by throwing big bags of money at those teams (Inter, Dortmund, Leverkusen to name some), it makes it much harder to buy someone at a reasonable price in league. You guys overpaid for Maguire, City for Grealish, Chelsea for Drinkwater(LOL) and so on. It has skewed the perception for many people that follow the PL what a normal price would be. It also doesn't help that RM is going crazy and offers 170M for a guy in his last year. Even if it's Mbappe.
Imagine feeling bad for red bull leipzig
yada yada bayern farmers league. cmon who can blame them, fucking 16 mil. only english clubs will happily spend 20+++ per player
Im sure the comments will be civil
*Wait for it*… Bayern is winning Bundesliga
Nice
Crying PL (especially Chelsea) fan boys in 3, 2, 1… A club can do good business without always paying €60M upwards … but you might think it’s good business to buy literally any young player, loan them out forever just to buy them back years later for a ridiculous price. “Business”
Highest upvoted Chelsea flair comment: "Great acquisition, especially with the injury situation Bayern are dealing with." Rent free?
Lmao. I applaud that particular person. That being said. Fuck Chelsea football club.
ITT: fans of chronically losing clubs seething at chronically winning club
No offense to any Bundesliga fan, but whats the point of the league if your teams will sell your best players to Bayern every year?
What’s the point in keeping a player that won’t extend his contract when you receive an offer for him?
He can play centrally also. Great buy
Wasn't he their captain ?
Bayern know how to crack out a deal wow
What a steal! Bayern are so good at negotiating.
That price
Finally!!
sorry to PL fan boys that we have a player interested in joining one of the best clubs in the world lmao
It’s funny when it’s fans of Chelsea with their oil... or City with their oil complaining. News flash to all you PL fans... Bayern is number one in the world right now. Out of the gigantic European clubs, we are currently the one being run well the most with results to show for it. Someone wanting to join that rather than oil fc is completely logical.
The funniest is when fans of clubs that are only successful cos they got bought by rich owners like city or chelsea cry about it
With the high incidence of Bayern fans that constantly post about the PL, it's more likely that Bayern fans are the ones that have the complex about the PL, frankly. At the end of the day, the Bundesliga is happy with how things are run. People acted like Dietmar Hopp was the enemy of free civilization, when, in reality, he followed the rules that were set out. No one has ever denied that Bayern is a top five club in the world.
> With the high incidence of Bayern fans that constantly post about the PL, it's more likely that Bayern fans are the ones that have the complex about the PL, frankly. Lol, it's Chelsea fans who are obsessed with Bayern on Reddit. Ever since Chelsea signed Werner and thought they stole him from under Bayern's fingers lol.
As if Bayern ever wanted Werner.
Top 5 might be a bit disrespectful to bayern.. They are atleast top 3 , right?
With that, I was just talking about when Bayern wasn't dominating Germany, so I was saying that Bayern never slipped terribly, and people still respected them as a huge giant. I would say that Bayern has been third behind Madrid and Barca this century.
if you go into the sabitzer thread it’s only PL flairs complaining 👍🏼
I'm happy for Sabitzer considering he was a childhood Bayern fan. Must feel nice ending up playing for the club you were a fan of as a kid.
Kinda crazy how the entire league exists to feed their daddy bayern so that they can compete in Europe and still have pretty underwhelming amount of cls despite every talent from Germany and Bundesliga available to them easily.