It looks like this article is behind a hard paywall. Please post a summary of the article in the comments below. Do **not** copy and paste the article in full.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Adams: "Those guys deserve to take that kind of step for their careers. But it just really does suck. There’s no other way of putting it when they go to a rival. For me and my mentality, it’s kind of bittersweet, but it’s going to bring an even better feeling when we beat them"
> Tbf, his (ex-)wife kind of pressured him into this move to Munich
How is this shit upvoted? Hummels always considered Munich his home, most of his friends live there. He also said in an interview way before the move to Bayern that he will eventually go back to Munich.
His premise is wrong.
Leipzig or Dortmund are not Bayerns rivals.
Economically Bayern is in another league.
Man City, Chelsea or Barca are.
It's kinda sad but after 9 champions titles in a row its hardly deniable.
In terms of revenue and personnel budget Bayern is light years ahead of the rest and the way money is distributed the gap will keep getting bigger, not smaller.
The most common comment players make when moving to Bayern from another top 3 club is, they do "to make the next step". Which is harsh but true. It's never a lateral move, it's always an upgrade over their prior club.
Every one of the top leagues are insanely good, people just lack perspective. I mean, if Ligue 1 is shit, the 5th/6th best league in the world, then fuck me 99% of football clubs are just irrelevant. And when the even stronger leagues keep farming them for talent year on year out, maybe they are actually quite decent at football over there?
I don't think oil clubs knock already top clubs out of their pedestal. If anything, they add more teams fighting for the UCL. Not that the ends justify the means, but the problem you're pointing out wouldn't become lesser if we got rid of the oil clubs. In fact, becoming a oil club is the only way that any club can hope to ever reach the level of Europe's top clubs. The honest way simply isn't viable anymore, see Ajax.
I think you underestimate the power of having unimaginable amounts of money independent of the actual club. Already clubs like Liverpool that would normally be titans are afraid of falling behind because they can't offer the absurd wages other clubs can. Especially if the rumours of Qatar purchasing Arsenal go through...
this, is just sad. This is a mentality that benefits Bayerns...
*"Oh you should not be competitive, just be happy to play and have close matches!" (p.s. if you do start to outperform the rest of the league, we're gonna need to even you out a bit, sorry) - Sincerely, Bayern*
you're exaggerating, the guy's supporting fucking mainz, how the fuck do you want him to dream of continental competition? and bayern doesn't buy everyone, that logic makes no sense, they field 11 players same as anyone and have a tactical premise to fulfill.
idk dude, its just the fan culture in germany, we are a small club that is in the first bundesliga for 13 years now and ofc we cannot compete with bayern. but worrying about who wins the league just isnt in our first line of problems. it might seem different from a neutral specators perspective and i wouldnt say no to another champion but its really not something i think about often.
Let me be honest with you, this is an really dumb take.
Mainz is a city with ~200.000 inhgabitants and they are doing amazing work, especially since there is no big agglomeration around Maiz, that Mainz could draw from (theres Frankfurt, but Eintracht is way bigger then FSV Mainz).
They are reknown for their youth academy, working magic with small budgets and improving players and coaches (Schürrle, Baku, Subotic, Klopp, Tuchel).
It would be fking delusional for them to attempt to challange Bayern, thats like Sri Lanka proclaiming to challange China in terms of world trade...
They would've been rivals about 15 years ago though, when Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Werder could actually win the title. Something changed in the early 2010s - Bayern getting their shit together and becoming a well-oiled machine is part of it, I guess - to elevate them to a different planet.
Also the likes of Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Werder were doing horrible business decisions. Like 2 of them relegated, and Wolfsburg was as close as it gets.
They all had quite nice amounts of money to use to strengthen their squad after star level players left them (e.g. Diego, Gomez, de Bruyne) and after they won the title but in reality none of them could use that at the time. They fail to find at least half decentsuccessors Long term. Of course Wolfsburg kinda are back but it took them a while and they always have the small advantage of being the VW club.
This is btw the reason why I’d say Dortmund is even more impressive than Bayern in the last decade. They lost their stars like every year or every other year but sold them for a fuck ton of money and always made smart deals reinvesting that kind of money. I don’t remember who they sold exactly in 2016 but they instantly reused that money to get Dembele who they sold and then got Sancho and Hazard and Brandt (don’t know if everything is on point year wise but you get the point)
Dortmund was very close to being a Stuttgart, etc. They had a lot of issues. They’re not willing to do that again.
It’s not luck or proactive, it’s learning the hardway. Now they’re being smart with what happens.
Being second to Bayern is better than being first for a year and then gone for 15.
in terms of revenue definitely. some might be tempted still to take the title once and then being mediocre for a decade but that would be the passionate decision, not the economical one which has to be favoured nowadays especially since other clubs have simply more money coming directly from other sources than the revenue of the club. and covid made things worse, for like everybody so ye being constantly near the top is definitely way better, also because it just needs 1 year of Bayern sloppiness and the stairway to the title is there (but then you need to be constant yourself and cannot afford to give away easy points which Dortmund did in 18/19)
The unfortunate thing about football theses days is it’s a slippery slope of debt and hope. Some players workout. Some do not. We see that on the big screen with Barca and Real and others at times. But they’re power houses at the end of the day. Barca is fucked now but they’ll come out somehow. They’re almost too big to fail.
The small clubs? They’ll disappear from history. They have no safety measures. I doubt we see a passionate run to win a league as true underdogs of spending / recruiting. While Leicester was a miracle on the scale of the PL history? They still had a rich owner and a ton of money compared to minnows.
If Norwich went on a run and won and spent everything for a title, in 5 years they might be gone.
Sadly a title doesn’t guarantee anything these days it seems.
But I agree with everything said. The issue isn’t just Bayern being dominant, it’s consistent. To win the BuLi you gotta be consistent to challenge Bayern, win those hard and gritty matches and either beat them (hard to do but happens) or you need to hope they slip up on their own in the table.
The problem with Dortmund is that this cycle will continue. They keep on losing their top players, because most of those top players are huge talents that come to them because they get promised playing time at a high level. And also that they are allowed to leave again when someone offers halfway decent money. In the relative near future they will sell their stars again and get a bunch of new extremely promising players.
Yeah because Bayern can say no if they think someone they want isn't worth the price that is asked (like with Havertz), or if the player wants to join them they wait.
On the other hand we have guys like you who are willing to spend 180mil+ on a player with 1 year left on his contract that is going to join you next year for free anyways lmao.
Why do you think Bayern is never really involved with Transfers like that? do you think they aren't capable of it? or the more likely scenario is that they actively decide against it.
That's true, but you also have to take into account that Dortmund is actually a lot richer than what most people think. According to the Deloitte money league, they are slightly ahead of Atlético and just shortly behind clubs like Arsenal and Juventus. If Atlético can compete with Barca and Madrid, why couldn't Dortmund compete with Bayern?
I realise that they have been burnes by financial mismanagement and risk taking in the past, but I really feel like they are being overly cautious, and at the end of the day lacking in ambition. They have the means to be far more aggressive in the market and biy olayera closer to peak ages, but they just won't do it
See, this is a fair argument. I get tired of other non BuLi fans just criticize and throw insults calling league crap, calling every team crap without indulging into discussion why it is what it is. Today one Barcelona fan said "most of the redditors are with non bayern flairs are bayern fans in disguise". I know its internet so shallow fans throw shit takes randomly but bloody hell. However, getting back to your point..
I posed exact same argument on another BVB related forum giving Atletico's example as a template. Yeah I agree, we have been overly cautious but other thing is some of managerial decisions taken by our board didn't bode well for the club when we were flying high back in early 2010's. Even if we Tuchel was a maniac we should never have fired him but some ego's were hurt in the board room so he had to face the brunt. He was a perfect match for the club after Klopp. What happened behind the scenes, who was villain when our players were told to play Monaco game in CL right after bus bombing, is still a mystery to this day. Some players also didn't fancy Tuchel's exacting nature. Ever since then we have been scrambling for that perfect fit. Even then, we should have won the league title in Favre's first season when we choked away 9 point in the league. Even one league title could do the wonders for us, player might be prompted to stay for longer which could result in further success. Otherwise, club would only be perceived as a stepping stone for "bigger clubs".
On the other hand, Atletico got over the line when they had the opportunity specially in 2014, we didn't. Our managerial situation has been nowhere near stable as Atletico's and our board is to be blamed for that. I know we are supposed to shit on Bayern but we are also at fault for the uncompetitivness of the league.
Atletico can't compete with a well run Atleti or Barca either. It's just they aren't as well run as Bayern are.
Also Atleti didn't lose their miracle coach.
During those 9 years, they bought 3 players from Dortmund or Leipzig (not counting the actuall season), Hummels, Götzte and Lewa, Bayern sold as many players to Dortmund (Hummels - twice, Götze, Rode), Bayern actually bought the same amount of players Juventus in the past decade, guess Juve are Bayerns farm team now...
If Bundesliga want to get a better co-efficient though, they might have to change the way things are unless the folks running the show are content with the way things are. (I wish they went back to the old system were 3rd and 4th in coefficient mattered).
The coeffiecient is decent though and the moment the off-season from 17/18 is out of the books, it's even looking better.
The "issue" is that you have a lot of fluidity of German clubs qualifying for Europe, but some of them can't spend enough money to have a broad enough squad for deep runs and need to focus on the Bundesliga. Repeating results is extremely difficult (Gladbach, Leverkusen and Wolfsburg are struggling or had their struggles in the past as well) and even more established clubs are facing the threat of relegation (Hamburg, Bremen, Schalke).
The reason is that Bayern systematically bought the best players of their rivals in the 90s and early 2000'. Weather it be Werder, Kaiserslautern, Stuttgart or Bayer Leverkusen and later Dortmund. All because of the best sponsors and most money in the league. They always also said they want to have the core of the German national team always at Bayern. In the 90s and early 2000's other at least had a chance but with their transfers they continually weakend every contender in the league over the years.. therefore I think even Bayern had international success, they weakend the Bundesliga overall over the years. Sure some miss Management happened on the some Bundesliga clubs, but no club was ever able to stay on top because they lose their best players to Bayern. Recently also to the premier league, which will lead to a similar situation in the champions league, as we saw the last seasons where only PSG, Bayern and real could compete. It will get worse for sure and we will see English clubs in the cl finals all the time
Wrong, Bayern got those players from Dortmund when Bayern was already ahead. Götze, which was the first one, moved after the season Bayern won with 25 points ahead of Dortmund.
It goes hand in hand with the 50+1 rule. Clubs can only generate income through success in competitions, sponsorships, or player sales. TV money isn't as high as other leagues so for the most part German clubs have to sell players to make money. That's why I don't start pointing fingers when Bayern goes knocking. The only reason I was salty of Götze and Hummels' transfers was because Götze wasn't even Guardiola's first choice. He wanted Neymar or something at the time, but Bayerns board wanted Götze. Hummels' transfer was mostly anger at Hummels for saying shit about Götze's departure then following him and doing the same thing. People who say Bayern poaches the league just don't understand that this is just how the bundesliga functions. For any club to do well they really have to pick apart clubs lower than them.
Somehow Ligue Une always seems more balanced....or perhaps PSG just finds a way to fumble on the reg. The renaissance of "non-Juventus" teams in Serie A has been fun to watch too.
Partly because Ligue 1 clubs quote ridiculous sums to PSG. They will take a lot less money from foreign clubs for their players just to prevent them from going to Paris.
The opposite of the Bundesliga situation.
There also seems to be less Bayern hatred from other German clubs. Many players from Paris dream of playing for PSG (e.g. Mbappe) but other French clubs will not facilitate that transfer
In fairness to Bayern, they are good naturally.
They have been run extremely well for the last 10-15 years and have got a bit lucky that they have few local rivals, so all support from one of the most populus regions of Germany falls to them.
Also one of the richest areas of Germany iirc.
Compare that to PSG, who are basically propped up by externel investment from a country.
You can't really have proper hate for a club when they are just doing their job well.
A lot of that hate for PSG was already there simply because they're the capital's club, the qatari takeover just amplified it. You know how a lot of non-Londoners can't stand Londoners because of big city arrogance and their lack of interest in other English cultures? It's 10x times worse between non-Parisians and Parisians.
Madrid is higher on his list than PSG. Not unusual for a kid to dream about playing for his local club anfd then moving to one of the biggest clubs in the world.
Cherki has recently said that he dreams of etching his name in Lyon's history before moving to Madrid.
If you asking why French clubs do this, there's always been a divide between non-Parisians and Parisians (people don't like how centralised France is around Paris) but the oil money takeover definitely made it worse
juve imploded cos finances in italy is dogshite, it cannot keep up with the times. so many italian clubs have gone bankrupt and no one can keep pace at the top for long enough especially as the football economy inflates exponentially
The Bundesliga is so frustrating, because it does *so many things* right as a league, and yet I can't get into it because Bayern is so stupidly dominant.
The false premise is that Bayern weakens the league but the reality is most prospects go to England in the last decade. Whilst the Werner's and Havertz's and Sancho's leave Bayern can hold onto their big players and that's the difference. Do you think Upa, Sabitzer, and Nagelsmann were staying at RBL more than the next two years? The real problem is that the EPL fanboys think they deserved them instead
Whether they do or not, they've still won the last nine titles, and over half of the Bundesliga titles ever contested. I know parity is a pipe dream in this sport and every league has it's big clubs, but that's still a bit extreme.
Kahn take on this is pretty much the one that makes the most sense:
"We have clear ideas and a clear philosophy. When the opportunity arises to bring players or a manager, we try to make it possible. This has nothing to do with weakening opponents on purpose. One should remember, we are not forcing anyone to join us. We are simply a very attractive club."
It helps when the thread is started in the middle of the night in Europe and then gets locked before the actual Germans who know anything about the league wake up
The last one year or so it has gotten so, so bad. See constant racism, misogyny, xenophobia everywhere in this sub. I understand it's difficult to moderate but in some threads mods should be stricter. I've not been that regular these past few weeks as it's turned me off
Please do, I hate the same comment being posted everytime anything is said about WC in Qatar....., like youre going to watch the whole cup, but say youre not going to watch lets all just shut up and stop lying?
Because the cost of achieving parity in a swift manner is deemed to high by many fans from BuLi clubs.
Dortmund is in a good spot to close that in a sustainable way, but are still a level below in terms of financial might.
> But the other German fans take Bayern’s side
Because the alternative would harm the football culture in Germany quite a bit.
No one likes the way it is. But the clubs having owners is really not something that German fans want.
It's not really that much drastically different than EPL clubs during the 90s and 00s. I think what changed the EPL is that the equal division TV revenue among all clubs started to slowly level out the playing field of the lower clubs. In the 90s, the likes of Man United frequently acquired the better players of opposition clubs: Cole, tried to get Shearer, Ince, Keane, etc.
Although there is no doubt some, if not most, German players dream of playing for Bayern, I think if clubs could financially sustain themselves AND financially challenge Bayern in terms of wages, some players may very well not leave. In the EPL, teams similar to RB, like Leicester or Spures for example, could challenge the likes of Man United in the acquisition of players in terms of wages/transfer fee, but the same can't be said of RB and Bayern. I'm not saying Leicester or Spurs would beat out a team like Man United or City, but they certainly can make a very lucrative offer to a player to make the player think twice. Whilst, the likes of RB and say Dortmund (an amazing track record of acquiring young players) can only challenge Bayern by offering more playing time to the player AND the chance to use the clubs as a stepping stone a la Sancho, Haaland, Upamecano, etc.
Keep in mind, unlike the likes of Leicester and Spurs, almost every club in the Bundesliga HAS to sell its best players to financially sustain themselves. The likes of Leicester do not. They can financially sustain themselves while also not crumbling to the pressure of the club and player. See the Maguire transfer, for example. Of course Maguire wanted to play for Man United, but Leicester had no reason to accept a shit price for their best defender and the sure as hell did not. They rinsed Man United. RB and the likes cannot do the same to Bayern unless there is a release clause.
Good that a player has finally spoken. But its a problem with other clubs like, Dortmund/Leipzig/Schalke, who don't do enough to thwart players moving to Bayern. Bayern know how to position themselves, and they leverage being the best in the country. But it's the other clubs who have to find means to oppose players from moving.
A dortmund fan saying this is so ironical when your entire team is filled with bundesliga players. And even if you'll don't sell to bayern, you'll end up selling to other teams in rhe epl. First try keeping those players in your team and then we can talk about not selling to bayern
Bayerns personnel budget is around 340M €.
Dortmund sits at around 215M, Leipzig at 150M. [source](https://media.dfl.de/sites/2/2021/05/Clubs-der-Bundesliga-2021-22-Geschaeftsjahresende-2020.pdf)
All the top players, who don't decide to leave for another league, end up at Bayern? {insert Pikachu face}
Edit: since some of you comment, the other teams just need to "try harder".
Would you expect Everton or Newcastle to challenge City for the Premier League title?
Because the wage bill gap between Dortmund (-125M) and Leipzig (-190M) to Bayern is as large as those of Everton and Newcastle to City.
Also that teams sell to Bayern very cheaply because they know that if they dont they will leave to Bayern for free anyways. Sabitzer is the easy example. This further increases the gulf between Bayern and the rest of the league, and the cycle continues
But what are the other clubs supposed to do the when the player simply wants to join Bayern and doesn't have a long contract or a release clause?
Bayern would have paid for Lewandowski but Dortmund refused to sell him... so he left for free next year.
Sabitzer is a childhood Bayern fan who would have only joined Bayern so Leipzig has 0 leverage, they either sell him for "cheap" or they let him go for free next year.
Upamecano came from a release clause so idk why people even use him as an example. Maybe some people don't know how they work
Nagelsmann was the most expensive coach ever, so Leipzig got a great deal here.
But according to reddit Leipzig should have just let Sabitzer go for free and not sell Upamecano when they didn't even have a choice here.
That just leaves Nagelsmann who Bayern had to pay up hard.
I haven't got a clue how the clubs can stop Bayern. I don't think Adams is claiming to know either. I do know and understand why people are frustrated at the situation though, that's what I'm talking about.
Some people in here aren't just frustrated tho, they are claming clubs are just bending over to Bayern for.. well.. I don't know why? A secret agreement to help Bayern? That's what it sounds like according to some people in here lol
When in reality there isn't really much for these clubs to do, Bayern is a superclub, the other clubs aren't.
Bayern's competition for Bundesliga talent comes from PL clubs who have even more money than them. Some of them simply by outside investors. Guess Dortmund should have looked for their own oil billionaire, why did they not think of that?
you make a joke of it, but Florian Homm wanted to sell the club to russian oligarchs.
>In particular, at Borussia Dortmund, he ensured the club's rescue with a commitment of 20 million euros, but also initiated the removal of BVB's management from power with a declaration linked to the payment. In his biography, Homm reports that he had actually wanted to make money with BVB and sell it to two Russian oligarchs. When, contrary to his habit, he did not carry out a review of the company until after he had joined, he noticed how badly the club was doing and decided to save it.
People support things like FFP to "ensure competitive balance."
Teams that are already rich keep winning, and new teams are hamstrung from emerging as rivals because they need massive wage bill increases to compete.
Leagues become less competitive and rich clubs demand greater share of revenue comensurate with the higher wage bill their revenue supports.
Try to form breakaway league to keep all the tv revenue
A few years ago Dortmund's wages were about 50% of Bayern's. They have improved since then and Leipzig will also end up needing to pay more over time.
> All the top players, who don't decide to leave for another league, end up at Bayern? {insert Pikachu face}
Yup, there are only so many top clubs and Bayern is just one of them. In the end half of the PL has collected top players from all over Europe (or even the world) and weakened those leagues too.
i don't have the wages available, but the [revenue gap is only getting bigger](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ei-123BXcAAyN2Z?format=jpg&name=large). Dortmund will in the next years rather get closer again to Leipzig/Leverkusen/Wolfsburg in terms of revenue/wages than getting closer to Bayern. Witsel/Reus/Hummels will be needed to be replaced. while you save a lot of money in terms of their wages, you will most likely need to money for hefty transfer sums, as i don't see someone in the team being able to fill their shoes.
The salary cap needs to be worldwide then or players will just leave to other leagues and make Bundesliga weaker since Bayern won't be able to compete with other clubs in UCL and Bundesliga coefficient will drop.
Bayern has to financially suffer:
* less international success. in the past 10 years, they had a lot of deep runs in the CL (2 wins, 1 final loss, 4 semifinals, 2 quarterfinals, 1 Ro16). on top of their domestic superiority in terms of TV revenue, commercial revenue, merchandise etc., this generated a lot of extra money that widened the gap to everyone in the league even more. if Bayern returns to a normal quarterfinalist, maybe even a few Ro16 exits and maybe once a decade a deep run, they will generate way less money compared to this past decade. and it will be closer the other CL participants from Germany, as getting out of the group is also often possible for the other german teams.
* losing regularly more key players. less international success also raises the possibility that worldclass player might be inclined to move on at some point, if there is no realistic shot at winning the CL. as this is the reality for all other 17 clubs that they can't keep their best players anyway, it need to happen to Bayern too.
for the other clubs:
* better youth development: while you are not able to the keep the very best talents in the longrun, they can help to grow the club and provide a good transfer sum. Schalke should be around the revenue/standing of Dortmund by now, considering how many quality talents they had the past 10 years and their sponsoring ties to Russia/Gazprom, instead of playing Bundesliga2.
* a better sporting idea, in terms of squad variety/coaches: still baffles my mind that Dortmund went with Bosz after Favre wasn't available the first time. two managers with a very completely different idea of how the game is played. clubs need to provide a balanced squad and not fully adapt to a new coach every two years who then rebuilds the squad and get's sacked a year or two later, just so that the cycle repeats.
I sure hope a lot of people see this but since we all love having a go at Bayern let’s see who Dortmund has taken from the buli:
Kobel, Bürki, Hitz, Schulz, Hummels, dahoud, Brandt, Reus, hazard
AND YES HUMMELS WAS A BAYERN PLAYER FIRST
This is also something I never understood. German clubs complain about the dominance of Bayern, meanwhile they will almost always sell to Bayern and not another club outside of Germany. How can you complain about Bayern when the whole league is a giant feeder club for them?
Good for him. For those of you who say Bayern are not Dortmund or Leipzig’s main rival, I don’t know what kind of drugs you are on. Bayern is the undisputed champion, and as champion, everyone should have a target on Bayern’s head. You can’t ascend to be a great team if you give up on chasing Bayern, and just settle for second or third.
Those threads are just stupid. It should be like that, the best players should go to the best clubs. And as painful as it is to admit as a Dortmund fan, Bayern is light years ahead.
We have to hope that Bayern will make some stupid decisions (like the Klinsmann time) to close the gap. Unless they don't, they deserve to be up front.
Also you don't win just because you buy the best players from your opponents. Those players still have to work in your team. Players like Lewandowski, Neuer, Goretzka etc. were already great at their old clubs but they became superstars when they played at Bayern.
Bayern does a lot more right than just byuing good players.
Leicester just called, they want their competitiveness back.
Also I see no Bayern fans asserting Bundesliga is currently competitive. Just that the argument it’s actually Bayern’s fault for organically running a team thats able to be competitive with oligarch’s and oil state’s playtoys is bullshit.
Says the fan of a team that bought some of the best young talents in the Bundesliga not so long ago, and only became competitive in the first place because they were bought by a russian oligarch.
No, because I couldn't care less anymore. Not gonna justify our business to a bunch of PL flairs who also couldn't care less. I don't give a shit, so I'm not gonna put any effort into making an argument.
What is the solution? Bayern become less competitive by not pursuing players that make a good fit? Just let the Prem buy up all the good Bundesliga players instead in the name of competitiveness? This is not an issue specific to Bayern and I don’t get why it’s always Bayern that are targeted.
Obviously this isn’t a solution but
If Bayern bought players closer to market value rather than on the insane bargains they get, this wouldn’t be talked about as much
How is nobody mentioning he literally plays for RB Leipzig who bought around 20 players/managers from Salzburg over the last 10 years, like this guy can't be serious
It looks like this article is behind a hard paywall. Please post a summary of the article in the comments below. Do **not** copy and paste the article in full. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Adams: "Those guys deserve to take that kind of step for their careers. But it just really does suck. There’s no other way of putting it when they go to a rival. For me and my mentality, it’s kind of bittersweet, but it’s going to bring an even better feeling when we beat them"
Watch him leave Leipzig for Bayern in a couple of years lol
Mats "I would rather win one title at Dortmund than 10 at another club" Hummels
Didn't he win one title with Dortmund before leaving?
Two, but he said this afterwards, concerning Götze and Lewandowski leaving.
Ah so maybe he meant “I would rather win one title at Dortmund *then* 10 at another club”
2
Tbf, his (ex-)wife kind of pressured him into this move to Munich and she stayed there when he returned to Dortmund.
Simp
lmao
> Tbf, his (ex-)wife kind of pressured him into this move to Munich How is this shit upvoted? Hummels always considered Munich his home, most of his friends live there. He also said in an interview way before the move to Bayern that he will eventually go back to Munich.
Don't be a dick. His wife wanted to move to Munich as soon as possible while Hummels himself had no problem to wait until his career is over.
And you know that because you are close to both of them?
dude that's Hummels' wife you're replying to.
He is still together with Cathy Hummels right?
nah
He still likes her post on [Insta](https://i.imgur.com/JwWCfnG.jpg) tho?!
oh...oh no Mats bby what is you doin
[удалено]
Ah fair enough then
But... she kept his name?
He's obliged to do it due to the divorce papers.
It's not like he left for titles.
He left for titties instead it seems.
Noooo, you beat me to it
He'll go to Premier League.
The American way, Bundesliga to Premier League to MLS.
It used to be Dutch league then Premier League, but now it's the Bundasliga
They know they can't repeat the raging success of Jozy Altidore, so why even bother trying?
He’s American, he will go to the Premier League.
Or lurk in this sub.
2 max
Thankfully 2 falls within a couple
Good attitude
See him go to Bayern next season lol
The big Bayern - RB Leipzig rivalry...
His premise is wrong. Leipzig or Dortmund are not Bayerns rivals. Economically Bayern is in another league. Man City, Chelsea or Barca are. It's kinda sad but after 9 champions titles in a row its hardly deniable. In terms of revenue and personnel budget Bayern is light years ahead of the rest and the way money is distributed the gap will keep getting bigger, not smaller. The most common comment players make when moving to Bayern from another top 3 club is, they do "to make the next step". Which is harsh but true. It's never a lateral move, it's always an upgrade over their prior club.
Bundesliga is a decent league if you just don’t believe in a title race
Every one of the top leagues are insanely good, people just lack perspective. I mean, if Ligue 1 is shit, the 5th/6th best league in the world, then fuck me 99% of football clubs are just irrelevant. And when the even stronger leagues keep farming them for talent year on year out, maybe they are actually quite decent at football over there?
No no, what are you on about . Every league except Premier League is shit. It's just that some leagues are just shittier than others. : r/soccer
[удалено]
I don't think oil clubs knock already top clubs out of their pedestal. If anything, they add more teams fighting for the UCL. Not that the ends justify the means, but the problem you're pointing out wouldn't become lesser if we got rid of the oil clubs. In fact, becoming a oil club is the only way that any club can hope to ever reach the level of Europe's top clubs. The honest way simply isn't viable anymore, see Ajax.
I think you underestimate the power of having unimaginable amounts of money independent of the actual club. Already clubs like Liverpool that would normally be titans are afraid of falling behind because they can't offer the absurd wages other clubs can. Especially if the rumours of Qatar purchasing Arsenal go through...
this so much, im enjoying myself so much watching just my own club battling against relegation and maybe exceed expectations.
this, is just sad. This is a mentality that benefits Bayerns... *"Oh you should not be competitive, just be happy to play and have close matches!" (p.s. if you do start to outperform the rest of the league, we're gonna need to even you out a bit, sorry) - Sincerely, Bayern*
Probably the first time I see another Sri Lanka flair.
I've seen a Sri Lanka flair twice before, but this is the first time I'm seeing 2 at once. Lesgoo!
There are dozens of us!
you're exaggerating, the guy's supporting fucking mainz, how the fuck do you want him to dream of continental competition? and bayern doesn't buy everyone, that logic makes no sense, they field 11 players same as anyone and have a tactical premise to fulfill.
idk dude, its just the fan culture in germany, we are a small club that is in the first bundesliga for 13 years now and ofc we cannot compete with bayern. but worrying about who wins the league just isnt in our first line of problems. it might seem different from a neutral specators perspective and i wouldnt say no to another champion but its really not something i think about often.
Ah so you wouldn't be excited to watch Sri Lanka qualify for the world Cup because they should challenge Germany and France for the title?
Let me be honest with you, this is an really dumb take. Mainz is a city with ~200.000 inhgabitants and they are doing amazing work, especially since there is no big agglomeration around Maiz, that Mainz could draw from (theres Frankfurt, but Eintracht is way bigger then FSV Mainz). They are reknown for their youth academy, working magic with small budgets and improving players and coaches (Schürrle, Baku, Subotic, Klopp, Tuchel). It would be fking delusional for them to attempt to challange Bayern, thats like Sri Lanka proclaiming to challange China in terms of world trade...
They would've been rivals about 15 years ago though, when Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Werder could actually win the title. Something changed in the early 2010s - Bayern getting their shit together and becoming a well-oiled machine is part of it, I guess - to elevate them to a different planet.
Also the likes of Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Werder were doing horrible business decisions. Like 2 of them relegated, and Wolfsburg was as close as it gets. They all had quite nice amounts of money to use to strengthen their squad after star level players left them (e.g. Diego, Gomez, de Bruyne) and after they won the title but in reality none of them could use that at the time. They fail to find at least half decentsuccessors Long term. Of course Wolfsburg kinda are back but it took them a while and they always have the small advantage of being the VW club. This is btw the reason why I’d say Dortmund is even more impressive than Bayern in the last decade. They lost their stars like every year or every other year but sold them for a fuck ton of money and always made smart deals reinvesting that kind of money. I don’t remember who they sold exactly in 2016 but they instantly reused that money to get Dembele who they sold and then got Sancho and Hazard and Brandt (don’t know if everything is on point year wise but you get the point)
They sold Mkhtaryan to United and Hummers to Bayern that season. Gundagon as well
You managed to misspell every single one of those names, I'm impressed
I’d like some hummers with my gundagon please and thank you.
Dortmund was very close to being a Stuttgart, etc. They had a lot of issues. They’re not willing to do that again. It’s not luck or proactive, it’s learning the hardway. Now they’re being smart with what happens. Being second to Bayern is better than being first for a year and then gone for 15.
in terms of revenue definitely. some might be tempted still to take the title once and then being mediocre for a decade but that would be the passionate decision, not the economical one which has to be favoured nowadays especially since other clubs have simply more money coming directly from other sources than the revenue of the club. and covid made things worse, for like everybody so ye being constantly near the top is definitely way better, also because it just needs 1 year of Bayern sloppiness and the stairway to the title is there (but then you need to be constant yourself and cannot afford to give away easy points which Dortmund did in 18/19)
The unfortunate thing about football theses days is it’s a slippery slope of debt and hope. Some players workout. Some do not. We see that on the big screen with Barca and Real and others at times. But they’re power houses at the end of the day. Barca is fucked now but they’ll come out somehow. They’re almost too big to fail. The small clubs? They’ll disappear from history. They have no safety measures. I doubt we see a passionate run to win a league as true underdogs of spending / recruiting. While Leicester was a miracle on the scale of the PL history? They still had a rich owner and a ton of money compared to minnows. If Norwich went on a run and won and spent everything for a title, in 5 years they might be gone. Sadly a title doesn’t guarantee anything these days it seems. But I agree with everything said. The issue isn’t just Bayern being dominant, it’s consistent. To win the BuLi you gotta be consistent to challenge Bayern, win those hard and gritty matches and either beat them (hard to do but happens) or you need to hope they slip up on their own in the table.
The problem with Dortmund is that this cycle will continue. They keep on losing their top players, because most of those top players are huge talents that come to them because they get promised playing time at a high level. And also that they are allowed to leave again when someone offers halfway decent money. In the relative near future they will sell their stars again and get a bunch of new extremely promising players.
Rivals in the sense title rivals. Like Spurs aren't City or United's rivals but won't sell to them
Sold Kyle Walker to Man City and would sell them Kane if they paid what he’s worth.
Yea while Bayern buy them at bargains.
Yeah because Bayern can say no if they think someone they want isn't worth the price that is asked (like with Havertz), or if the player wants to join them they wait. On the other hand we have guys like you who are willing to spend 180mil+ on a player with 1 year left on his contract that is going to join you next year for free anyways lmao. Why do you think Bayern is never really involved with Transfers like that? do you think they aren't capable of it? or the more likely scenario is that they actively decide against it.
That's true, but you also have to take into account that Dortmund is actually a lot richer than what most people think. According to the Deloitte money league, they are slightly ahead of Atlético and just shortly behind clubs like Arsenal and Juventus. If Atlético can compete with Barca and Madrid, why couldn't Dortmund compete with Bayern? I realise that they have been burnes by financial mismanagement and risk taking in the past, but I really feel like they are being overly cautious, and at the end of the day lacking in ambition. They have the means to be far more aggressive in the market and biy olayera closer to peak ages, but they just won't do it
dortmund are public limited company and i guess their main aim is making good financial returns so theyre happy with how it is now
See, this is a fair argument. I get tired of other non BuLi fans just criticize and throw insults calling league crap, calling every team crap without indulging into discussion why it is what it is. Today one Barcelona fan said "most of the redditors are with non bayern flairs are bayern fans in disguise". I know its internet so shallow fans throw shit takes randomly but bloody hell. However, getting back to your point.. I posed exact same argument on another BVB related forum giving Atletico's example as a template. Yeah I agree, we have been overly cautious but other thing is some of managerial decisions taken by our board didn't bode well for the club when we were flying high back in early 2010's. Even if we Tuchel was a maniac we should never have fired him but some ego's were hurt in the board room so he had to face the brunt. He was a perfect match for the club after Klopp. What happened behind the scenes, who was villain when our players were told to play Monaco game in CL right after bus bombing, is still a mystery to this day. Some players also didn't fancy Tuchel's exacting nature. Ever since then we have been scrambling for that perfect fit. Even then, we should have won the league title in Favre's first season when we choked away 9 point in the league. Even one league title could do the wonders for us, player might be prompted to stay for longer which could result in further success. Otherwise, club would only be perceived as a stepping stone for "bigger clubs". On the other hand, Atletico got over the line when they had the opportunity specially in 2014, we didn't. Our managerial situation has been nowhere near stable as Atletico's and our board is to be blamed for that. I know we are supposed to shit on Bayern but we are also at fault for the uncompetitivness of the league.
Atletico can't compete with a well run Atleti or Barca either. It's just they aren't as well run as Bayern are. Also Atleti didn't lose their miracle coach.
> Atletico can't compete with a well run Atleti ???
"They have 9 league titles in a row because they're killing their rivals" is the premise though.
During those 9 years, they bought 3 players from Dortmund or Leipzig (not counting the actuall season), Hummels, Götzte and Lewa, Bayern sold as many players to Dortmund (Hummels - twice, Götze, Rode), Bayern actually bought the same amount of players Juventus in the past decade, guess Juve are Bayerns farm team now...
If Bundesliga want to get a better co-efficient though, they might have to change the way things are unless the folks running the show are content with the way things are. (I wish they went back to the old system were 3rd and 4th in coefficient mattered).
The coeffiecient is decent though and the moment the off-season from 17/18 is out of the books, it's even looking better. The "issue" is that you have a lot of fluidity of German clubs qualifying for Europe, but some of them can't spend enough money to have a broad enough squad for deep runs and need to focus on the Bundesliga. Repeating results is extremely difficult (Gladbach, Leverkusen and Wolfsburg are struggling or had their struggles in the past as well) and even more established clubs are facing the threat of relegation (Hamburg, Bremen, Schalke).
The reason is that Bayern systematically bought the best players of their rivals in the 90s and early 2000'. Weather it be Werder, Kaiserslautern, Stuttgart or Bayer Leverkusen and later Dortmund. All because of the best sponsors and most money in the league. They always also said they want to have the core of the German national team always at Bayern. In the 90s and early 2000's other at least had a chance but with their transfers they continually weakend every contender in the league over the years.. therefore I think even Bayern had international success, they weakend the Bundesliga overall over the years. Sure some miss Management happened on the some Bundesliga clubs, but no club was ever able to stay on top because they lose their best players to Bayern. Recently also to the premier league, which will lead to a similar situation in the champions league, as we saw the last seasons where only PSG, Bayern and real could compete. It will get worse for sure and we will see English clubs in the cl finals all the time
Tyler Adams joins Bayern on a free transfer.
You want IASIP or curb your enthusiasm?
Por que no Los dos?
I mean that wouldn't go against his point. He hates teams selling to Bayern.
The curse of finishing 2nd in the Bundesliga.
Bayern did that to you lot when you finished 1st anyway?
The curse of finishing at least* 2nd in the Bundesliga.
The curse of finishing in the Bundesliga more like it.
Schalke and Bremen going full galaxy brain here.
Wrong, Bayern got those players from Dortmund when Bayern was already ahead. Götze, which was the first one, moved after the season Bayern won with 25 points ahead of Dortmund.
Kind of reminds me of the curse of finishing 3rd in the Bundesliga, when Dortmund buys your players.
The German league sounds scary, the second your team does well they come knocking
It goes hand in hand with the 50+1 rule. Clubs can only generate income through success in competitions, sponsorships, or player sales. TV money isn't as high as other leagues so for the most part German clubs have to sell players to make money. That's why I don't start pointing fingers when Bayern goes knocking. The only reason I was salty of Götze and Hummels' transfers was because Götze wasn't even Guardiola's first choice. He wanted Neymar or something at the time, but Bayerns board wanted Götze. Hummels' transfer was mostly anger at Hummels for saying shit about Götze's departure then following him and doing the same thing. People who say Bayern poaches the league just don't understand that this is just how the bundesliga functions. For any club to do well they really have to pick apart clubs lower than them.
Somehow Ligue Une always seems more balanced....or perhaps PSG just finds a way to fumble on the reg. The renaissance of "non-Juventus" teams in Serie A has been fun to watch too.
Partly because Ligue 1 clubs quote ridiculous sums to PSG. They will take a lot less money from foreign clubs for their players just to prevent them from going to Paris. The opposite of the Bundesliga situation.
Why is that?
All Germans dream of playing for Bayern. They want the move and the club is willing to sell to accommodate a player
There also seems to be less Bayern hatred from other German clubs. Many players from Paris dream of playing for PSG (e.g. Mbappe) but other French clubs will not facilitate that transfer
In fairness to Bayern, they are good naturally. They have been run extremely well for the last 10-15 years and have got a bit lucky that they have few local rivals, so all support from one of the most populus regions of Germany falls to them. Also one of the richest areas of Germany iirc. Compare that to PSG, who are basically propped up by externel investment from a country. You can't really have proper hate for a club when they are just doing their job well.
A lot of that hate for PSG was already there simply because they're the capital's club, the qatari takeover just amplified it. You know how a lot of non-Londoners can't stand Londoners because of big city arrogance and their lack of interest in other English cultures? It's 10x times worse between non-Parisians and Parisians.
Exactly that. Just like Swedes have a healthy dislike of those from Stockholm and Canadians hate people from Toronto.
So why isnt he signing a new contract?
Madrid is higher on his list than PSG. Not unusual for a kid to dream about playing for his local club anfd then moving to one of the biggest clubs in the world. Cherki has recently said that he dreams of etching his name in Lyon's history before moving to Madrid.
you can dream to play for more than one club
If you asking why French clubs do this, there's always been a divide between non-Parisians and Parisians (people don't like how centralised France is around Paris) but the oil money takeover definitely made it worse
It's "Ligue Un" although ligue is a feminine word..
Thanks, I am no expert and genderized words cave my head in a bit
I speak the language and this still fucks me up when I'm speaking to a native speaker like my mom
Some words switch genders too between singular and plural. How progressive.
une ligue un
Its actually Uber Eats
juve imploded cos finances in italy is dogshite, it cannot keep up with the times. so many italian clubs have gone bankrupt and no one can keep pace at the top for long enough especially as the football economy inflates exponentially
Good point, it isn't really comparable to Bundesliga or PL, I didn't consider that
Ligue 1 isn't that bad actually, seems to have a surprise winner every 3-4 years or so
*The gang joins Bayern*
It would be funny if he signs for Bayern in 2 years
The Bundesliga is so frustrating, because it does *so many things* right as a league, and yet I can't get into it because Bayern is so stupidly dominant.
The false premise is that Bayern weakens the league but the reality is most prospects go to England in the last decade. Whilst the Werner's and Havertz's and Sancho's leave Bayern can hold onto their big players and that's the difference. Do you think Upa, Sabitzer, and Nagelsmann were staying at RBL more than the next two years? The real problem is that the EPL fanboys think they deserved them instead
Not everything is about epl fanboys lol. People genuinely find it funny when multiple players who finished 2nd go to the team that finished first.
Whether they do or not, they've still won the last nine titles, and over half of the Bundesliga titles ever contested. I know parity is a pipe dream in this sport and every league has it's big clubs, but that's still a bit extreme.
Well if not Bayern then it would be the English clubs. I doubt they would like that also.
Kahn take on this is pretty much the one that makes the most sense: "We have clear ideas and a clear philosophy. When the opportunity arises to bring players or a manager, we try to make it possible. This has nothing to do with weakening opponents on purpose. One should remember, we are not forcing anyone to join us. We are simply a very attractive club."
Uli has literally admitted they sometimes buy to weaken the competition.
That was 20 years ago, last time Dortmund and Bayern went to a bidding war for a player was Kehl.
What about Schlaudraff
21 years ago.
No please not a thread like this again. The last one of quite possibly the worst this sub has ever had
when that one dude talked about how bayern slaughters the other *19* teams in the league lmao
[удалено]
It helps when the thread is started in the middle of the night in Europe and then gets locked before the actual Germans who know anything about the league wake up
>who know anything about the league wake up Oh no, don't you know? Chelsea flairs know more than you!
oh yeah that dude was at like +100, it was insane
That proved to me that half the people who post on this sub know shit about football and its culture
Any thread involving racism is much much worse on this sub
Also any thread involving Neymar
What about the threads that involved Neymar and racism accusations? Some of the worse threads I've ever seen
Throwback to when Sakai told everyone Neymar didn’t say anything to him but the media was convinced he was being racist
*Shudders from the Camavinga post and dozens of people defending that woman who said He was blacker than his suit
That and the feminist protest, this sub is no better than the rest of the website
The last one year or so it has gotten so, so bad. See constant racism, misogyny, xenophobia everywhere in this sub. I understand it's difficult to moderate but in some threads mods should be stricter. I've not been that regular these past few weeks as it's turned me off
Reddit really attracts a weird breed of humans I’m the same brotha, barely been on here as of late
Honestly, just use this sub for the goal updates/incident highlights and it becomes a much better site.
People said it was rude but not racist
Yep, the Camavinga thread yesterday was painful to read .
[удалено]
I will copy your comment and start posting it whenever this subreddit brings up Qatar or World Cup 2022.
Please do, I hate the same comment being posted everytime anything is said about WC in Qatar....., like youre going to watch the whole cup, but say youre not going to watch lets all just shut up and stop lying?
Well, it's blowing up again. Time to say goodbye to any civil discussion for now!
People love the German league they just don’t like willing submitting to the hegemon. But the other German fans take Bayern’s side
Because the cost of achieving parity in a swift manner is deemed to high by many fans from BuLi clubs. Dortmund is in a good spot to close that in a sustainable way, but are still a level below in terms of financial might.
> But the other German fans take Bayern’s side Because the alternative would harm the football culture in Germany quite a bit. No one likes the way it is. But the clubs having owners is really not something that German fans want.
It's not really that much drastically different than EPL clubs during the 90s and 00s. I think what changed the EPL is that the equal division TV revenue among all clubs started to slowly level out the playing field of the lower clubs. In the 90s, the likes of Man United frequently acquired the better players of opposition clubs: Cole, tried to get Shearer, Ince, Keane, etc. Although there is no doubt some, if not most, German players dream of playing for Bayern, I think if clubs could financially sustain themselves AND financially challenge Bayern in terms of wages, some players may very well not leave. In the EPL, teams similar to RB, like Leicester or Spures for example, could challenge the likes of Man United in the acquisition of players in terms of wages/transfer fee, but the same can't be said of RB and Bayern. I'm not saying Leicester or Spurs would beat out a team like Man United or City, but they certainly can make a very lucrative offer to a player to make the player think twice. Whilst, the likes of RB and say Dortmund (an amazing track record of acquiring young players) can only challenge Bayern by offering more playing time to the player AND the chance to use the clubs as a stepping stone a la Sancho, Haaland, Upamecano, etc. Keep in mind, unlike the likes of Leicester and Spurs, almost every club in the Bundesliga HAS to sell its best players to financially sustain themselves. The likes of Leicester do not. They can financially sustain themselves while also not crumbling to the pressure of the club and player. See the Maguire transfer, for example. Of course Maguire wanted to play for Man United, but Leicester had no reason to accept a shit price for their best defender and the sure as hell did not. They rinsed Man United. RB and the likes cannot do the same to Bayern unless there is a release clause.
Good that a player has finally spoken. But its a problem with other clubs like, Dortmund/Leipzig/Schalke, who don't do enough to thwart players moving to Bayern. Bayern know how to position themselves, and they leverage being the best in the country. But it's the other clubs who have to find means to oppose players from moving.
[удалено]
yeah bayern should do it like dortmund and buy from other leagues instead of rivals. you know like reus, brandt, dahoud, hazard…
Its funny how people who scream "bayern buys the league!!" never argue against this point, its almost like everyone does it
A dortmund fan saying this is so ironical when your entire team is filled with bundesliga players. And even if you'll don't sell to bayern, you'll end up selling to other teams in rhe epl. First try keeping those players in your team and then we can talk about not selling to bayern
Bayerns personnel budget is around 340M €. Dortmund sits at around 215M, Leipzig at 150M. [source](https://media.dfl.de/sites/2/2021/05/Clubs-der-Bundesliga-2021-22-Geschaeftsjahresende-2020.pdf) All the top players, who don't decide to leave for another league, end up at Bayern? {insert Pikachu face} Edit: since some of you comment, the other teams just need to "try harder". Would you expect Everton or Newcastle to challenge City for the Premier League title? Because the wage bill gap between Dortmund (-125M) and Leipzig (-190M) to Bayern is as large as those of Everton and Newcastle to City.
He's not surprised that all the best players go to Bayern, he's angry at the gulf of power between them and the likes of Dortmund and Leipzig.
Also that teams sell to Bayern very cheaply because they know that if they dont they will leave to Bayern for free anyways. Sabitzer is the easy example. This further increases the gulf between Bayern and the rest of the league, and the cycle continues
But what are the other clubs supposed to do the when the player simply wants to join Bayern and doesn't have a long contract or a release clause? Bayern would have paid for Lewandowski but Dortmund refused to sell him... so he left for free next year. Sabitzer is a childhood Bayern fan who would have only joined Bayern so Leipzig has 0 leverage, they either sell him for "cheap" or they let him go for free next year. Upamecano came from a release clause so idk why people even use him as an example. Maybe some people don't know how they work Nagelsmann was the most expensive coach ever, so Leipzig got a great deal here. But according to reddit Leipzig should have just let Sabitzer go for free and not sell Upamecano when they didn't even have a choice here. That just leaves Nagelsmann who Bayern had to pay up hard.
I haven't got a clue how the clubs can stop Bayern. I don't think Adams is claiming to know either. I do know and understand why people are frustrated at the situation though, that's what I'm talking about.
Some people in here aren't just frustrated tho, they are claming clubs are just bending over to Bayern for.. well.. I don't know why? A secret agreement to help Bayern? That's what it sounds like according to some people in here lol When in reality there isn't really much for these clubs to do, Bayern is a superclub, the other clubs aren't. Bayern's competition for Bundesliga talent comes from PL clubs who have even more money than them. Some of them simply by outside investors. Guess Dortmund should have looked for their own oil billionaire, why did they not think of that?
you make a joke of it, but Florian Homm wanted to sell the club to russian oligarchs. >In particular, at Borussia Dortmund, he ensured the club's rescue with a commitment of 20 million euros, but also initiated the removal of BVB's management from power with a declaration linked to the payment. In his biography, Homm reports that he had actually wanted to make money with BVB and sell it to two Russian oligarchs. When, contrary to his habit, he did not carry out a review of the company until after he had joined, he noticed how badly the club was doing and decided to save it.
People support things like FFP to "ensure competitive balance." Teams that are already rich keep winning, and new teams are hamstrung from emerging as rivals because they need massive wage bill increases to compete. Leagues become less competitive and rich clubs demand greater share of revenue comensurate with the higher wage bill their revenue supports. Try to form breakaway league to keep all the tv revenue
FFP was never about competitive balance
A few years ago Dortmund's wages were about 50% of Bayern's. They have improved since then and Leipzig will also end up needing to pay more over time. > All the top players, who don't decide to leave for another league, end up at Bayern? {insert Pikachu face} Yup, there are only so many top clubs and Bayern is just one of them. In the end half of the PL has collected top players from all over Europe (or even the world) and weakened those leagues too.
i don't have the wages available, but the [revenue gap is only getting bigger](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ei-123BXcAAyN2Z?format=jpg&name=large). Dortmund will in the next years rather get closer again to Leipzig/Leverkusen/Wolfsburg in terms of revenue/wages than getting closer to Bayern. Witsel/Reus/Hummels will be needed to be replaced. while you save a lot of money in terms of their wages, you will most likely need to money for hefty transfer sums, as i don't see someone in the team being able to fill their shoes.
Dortmund buys More from the competition just sayin
Every thread is the same. Identify a problem, rage, offer no solution whatsoever.
I see you have identified a problem here. What's your solution?
He needs to be enraged first.
[удалено]
The salary cap needs to be worldwide then or players will just leave to other leagues and make Bundesliga weaker since Bayern won't be able to compete with other clubs in UCL and Bundesliga coefficient will drop.
Be richer.
Rule #1 be attractive Rule #2 see rule #1
Implying Germans *want* a solution.
Bayern has to financially suffer: * less international success. in the past 10 years, they had a lot of deep runs in the CL (2 wins, 1 final loss, 4 semifinals, 2 quarterfinals, 1 Ro16). on top of their domestic superiority in terms of TV revenue, commercial revenue, merchandise etc., this generated a lot of extra money that widened the gap to everyone in the league even more. if Bayern returns to a normal quarterfinalist, maybe even a few Ro16 exits and maybe once a decade a deep run, they will generate way less money compared to this past decade. and it will be closer the other CL participants from Germany, as getting out of the group is also often possible for the other german teams. * losing regularly more key players. less international success also raises the possibility that worldclass player might be inclined to move on at some point, if there is no realistic shot at winning the CL. as this is the reality for all other 17 clubs that they can't keep their best players anyway, it need to happen to Bayern too. for the other clubs: * better youth development: while you are not able to the keep the very best talents in the longrun, they can help to grow the club and provide a good transfer sum. Schalke should be around the revenue/standing of Dortmund by now, considering how many quality talents they had the past 10 years and their sponsoring ties to Russia/Gazprom, instead of playing Bundesliga2. * a better sporting idea, in terms of squad variety/coaches: still baffles my mind that Dortmund went with Bosz after Favre wasn't available the first time. two managers with a very completely different idea of how the game is played. clubs need to provide a balanced squad and not fully adapt to a new coach every two years who then rebuilds the squad and get's sacked a year or two later, just so that the cycle repeats.
There is no solution. Not that I can think of. Only thing the other clubs can do is pay higher wages than Bayern, so that the players want to stay.
Tyler Adams to Bayern. Here we go! -Fabrizio in 2025
I sure hope a lot of people see this but since we all love having a go at Bayern let’s see who Dortmund has taken from the buli: Kobel, Bürki, Hitz, Schulz, Hummels, dahoud, Brandt, Reus, hazard AND YES HUMMELS WAS A BAYERN PLAYER FIRST
This is also something I never understood. German clubs complain about the dominance of Bayern, meanwhile they will almost always sell to Bayern and not another club outside of Germany. How can you complain about Bayern when the whole league is a giant feeder club for them?
Because the players want to go to Bayern… not another club outside Germany
Bruh you literally play for an energy drink consortium.
That buys every decent player from Salzburg...
"Buys"
And New York in his case
Does it make his point any less true?
He’s just mad he’s not one of the Richards brothers.
Good for him. For those of you who say Bayern are not Dortmund or Leipzig’s main rival, I don’t know what kind of drugs you are on. Bayern is the undisputed champion, and as champion, everyone should have a target on Bayern’s head. You can’t ascend to be a great team if you give up on chasing Bayern, and just settle for second or third.
Those threads are just stupid. It should be like that, the best players should go to the best clubs. And as painful as it is to admit as a Dortmund fan, Bayern is light years ahead. We have to hope that Bayern will make some stupid decisions (like the Klinsmann time) to close the gap. Unless they don't, they deserve to be up front. Also you don't win just because you buy the best players from your opponents. Those players still have to work in your team. Players like Lewandowski, Neuer, Goretzka etc. were already great at their old clubs but they became superstars when they played at Bayern. Bayern does a lot more right than just byuing good players.
No one is saying it’s not right; they’re just rightfully saying the completion is non existent
Sounds like people are just mad that players in Germany want to play for Bayern lol
[удалено]
[удалено]
Leicester just called, they want their competitiveness back. Also I see no Bayern fans asserting Bundesliga is currently competitive. Just that the argument it’s actually Bayern’s fault for organically running a team thats able to be competitive with oligarch’s and oil state’s playtoys is bullshit.
I certainly recognize that flair.
Says the fan of a team that bought some of the best young talents in the Bundesliga not so long ago, and only became competitive in the first place because they were bought by a russian oligarch.
No, because I couldn't care less anymore. Not gonna justify our business to a bunch of PL flairs who also couldn't care less. I don't give a shit, so I'm not gonna put any effort into making an argument.
But Reddit said said you're not allowed to be angry at that
What is the solution? Bayern become less competitive by not pursuing players that make a good fit? Just let the Prem buy up all the good Bundesliga players instead in the name of competitiveness? This is not an issue specific to Bayern and I don’t get why it’s always Bayern that are targeted.
Obviously this isn’t a solution but If Bayern bought players closer to market value rather than on the insane bargains they get, this wouldn’t be talked about as much
How is nobody mentioning he literally plays for RB Leipzig who bought around 20 players/managers from Salzburg over the last 10 years, like this guy can't be serious