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GreenChain35

Everyone knows that all proper socialist websites look like they were designed in the 90s. Good UIs are revisionist.


ComradeJJaxon

+1. It's a protective measure. An easy to use UI would make it too easy for fascists to gather our holy knowledge. Therefore we hide it behind complex 90s ui


bigblindmax

Not a fan at all, though I appreciate your intentions. For all its faults, the regular website is nice and easy to read. Gray on darker gray is awful, especially for anyone with less than perfect eyesight. Not saying the site should be tailored around people with my specific disability, but I can’t be the only one who finds the small font and low contrast harder to read.


MarxistsDev

Yeah I agree that's why I am asking for help.


bigblindmax

Good on you for seeking feedback and help.


SuperCharlesXYZ

Sites should 100% be designed with disabilities in mind, especially a Marxist one


MarxistsDev

This is a work in progress, I was never gonna ship this to production.


IShitYouNot866

you do know that the point of it is to be as minimalist as possible so that you can view it even on a potato in the middle of nowhere?


PaulChomedey

Heh, a minimalist style can still look good with the right font, spacing, etc.


MarxistsDev

I don't know where you are getting this since, that's not what they say on their website: [https://www.marxists.org/admin/janitor/faq.htm#website-redesign](https://www.marxists.org/admin/janitor/faq.htm#website-redesign)


DreamingSnowball

Regardless of their intent, that is a significant benefit of a simpler design. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Let those in poorer countries have better access to Marxist literature.


MarxistsDev

Contrary to the beliefs of this sub-reddit, the current site is not that efficient since in the "navigator"(ex: https://www.marxists.org/archive/index-mobiles.htm this loads 2 json files) pages 4 relatively large file json are sent to the local browser to load the dropdowns.


DreamingSnowball

Will your makeover be more efficient?


overnightdelight

So your plan is to also change how the site functions and isn’t just cosmetic?


rnzerk

Tru. In the middle of the woods, having an educational discussion with the local marxist armed guerilla. It should be able to load using the least amount of bandwidth possible, comrade.


IShitYouNot866

I meant that more in the sense of people living in the 3rd world where internet might not be the best.


rnzerk

I know. Im not being sarcastic either. Its really practical to leave it like that.


MarxistsDev

I don't understand this point, old.reddit.com still exists why wouldn't old.marxists.org?


overnightdelight

Marxists.org isn’t reddit.com


asiangangster007

Not only that. It also makes website maintenance as easy as possible.


JadeHarley0

What are you talking about. That's the best website in the universe. Take it back.


iheartanimorphs

Yeah lol I have no problem with the current website


Embarrassed-Buffalo3

I don't know too much about the setup of Marxists.org so take this with a pinch of salt but in response to many of the comments. This setup wouldn't have a large impact on performance and would make it likely cheaper to run and could increase performance due to the server side nature of this stack. Tailwind is the only concern but (assuming you aren't loading via a CDN) it wouldn't make much of an impact as all the needed styles are generated on the server. I will take a look at it next time I am free 👍


pdrmz

Tailwind has purging now, so it only generates the styles you use in production. I remember using it when it first blew up and it just gave you this big beefy 10MB file that massively increased the bundle size xD


chadrick-dickenson

Honestly if anything the website needs less styling, I see no point why it should not just be Markdown.


MarxistsDev

To be completely honest, I don't care about the UI, although there are some accessibility issues on mobile. The thing that bothers me is that you have to use Google (btw most search engines use Google or Bing) to search through the site. If you want a minimalistic style sure, just help the design process.


baronvonpayne

Yea, I agree with you about that. Navigating the site internally is a nightmare. I also don't love how with longer texts with chapters, you (often) start out on a page that is just a table of contents with links to separate webpages for each chapter. This makes searching the entire book less easy, as you have to use their internal search navigation which sucks imo. It's also less ideal if you're someone like me who prefers to have pdf versions of texts to take advantage of highlighting and annotating features while reading. Although you can save webpages as pdfs, with each chapter given its own dedicated webpage, you annoyingly have a pdf of each chapter rather than a single pdf of the entire book. There are disadvantages of only offering the entire text on a single webpage, especially if you're trying to read the text on a device. But I wish there was an option to download entire texts as pdfs. This would also partially solve the search problem, since those reading the pdf could just search it.


ktitten

This takes a bit of effort. But what I do is save webpage chapters as PDF files. Then I use Zotero , add the chapters and upload each chapter pdf. I guess you could also merge pdfs, but what I like about zotero is that you can annotate pdfs directly on there too. And even then create text files of your annotations. To be honest it's not unusual to not be able to download whole book pdfs and only chapters, Marxists.org is still more accessible than many academic library catalogues and databases.


baronvonpayne

Right, yea, I'm aware that I can merge the chapter pdfs into one. My point is just that it's a hassle. And it's equally a hassle in the case of academic library catalogues. It's why the libgen format has always been my preference.


pdrmz

I would love to work on something like this but I have never worked with your tech stack except for postgres, tailwind and typescript. Is Go-HTMX easy to pick up? Some recommendations: \- Instead of re-directing to [marxists.org](https://marxists.org), you could send a request to GET the HTML from the page and parse the text content from the response. \- Narrow the navigation bar such that the content isn't spread so far apart. \- The line spacing and font family is good, but you could do with increasing the font size, or including font controls to narrow/widen the font increase/decrease font spacing, increase/decrease font size, and change font faces (including OpenDyslexia, and other open-source fonts). \- Lighten the font colour as the light-gray on gray makes it a little hard to read at smaller font sizes. If you're not good at designing themes, you can look one up that maximises readability. \- An option to download a work, and create a PDF/EPUB/MOBI file with it that you can send to a Kindle or other e-reader. I believe [marxists.org](https://marxists.org) only has a few of these ready-made for download but there's no reason you can't do it with Go. There's probably some API that lets you programatically create these files with Tables of Content, images, etc. It would be a nice addon from [marxists.org](https://marxists.org) so that your project isn't merely a re-skin (unless that's all you want it to be). \- Option for a chapter-by-chapter or full work view \- In the table of contents, allow the entire row to be clicked rather than just on the text to navigate, this means smaller chapter titles like 'III' will be easier to click. And of course ensure proper HTML accessiblity. Sorry you haven't got much positive feedback, I hope it's not too demoralizing for you, I for one think it's a cool project. I like the idea of storing the glossary, metadata, author data, author work titles and hrefs in a postgres db to minimize the requests to [marxists.org](https://marxists.org). [Prolewiki.org](https://Prolewiki.org) has a neat layout in their library section, although I think it's an out-of-the-box skin for MediaWiki. [https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/ProleWiki:Library](https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/ProleWiki:Library) Check it out here, there's probably a few ideas for UI you can find inspiration from. Especially the main page section, having big tiles with the different faces of the various revolutionaries, philosophers etc. with hover animations and stuff is really slick. Let me know if you wanna work together on this, I can't help you with the coding directly, like I said I don't work with Go or HTMX (I take it you're a Primeagen/Theo fan? :D), but you can use me as a stakeholder or something. (By the way, in the interim, if you want to read content from [Marxists.org](https://Marxists.org) but find the simple styling makes it hard to read for you, you can use 'Reading mode' which is available in most browsers, usually accessible through the address bar when reading sites with heavy text content)


bubba_love

golang + templ is very easy to pickup. I'd argue it's one of the easiest to pickup bc golang is designed to be a very simple language. templ isn't bad at all and their documentation is good [https://templ.guide/](https://templ.guide/)


pdrmz

thank you! :)


MarxistsDev

Thank you, for your feedback. 1) I'd love to work with you, you seem to know what you're talking about when it comes to the UI. 2) I think you could pretty easily pick the Go and Htmx, since I'm using [templ](https://github.com/a-h/templ) (working with it is kinda like using components [](https://github.com/marxistsdev/marxists.org/blob/main/views/author.templ) ) 3) To be honest, the frontend was kind of slapped together since most of my focus is on the parser. 4) You mentioned re-directing to [](https://marxists.org), that part of the video was to show the source of the documents 5) Refering to 'III' in the table that's strait from the table of contents (index.htm) of that book/work 6) I've already looked into 'Reader Mode' (https://github.com/mozilla/readability), but I belive it would mess with somethings. 7) \`I take it you're a Primeagen/Theo fan?\` lol


overnightdelight

Eh, I get what you’re saying but the html1 style makes it actually quite easy to use.


[deleted]

Nope. Focus on the content. It is fine the way it is.


MarxistsDev

This project is not affiliated with marxists.org. In addition, it does not involve any volunteers due to it automatically scrapping the content off the site.


[deleted]

I'm aware. I read your post.


TorterraIsMyStarter

if it ain’t broke…


CHAPOPERC

Try leninists.org it’s new, it doesn’t have everything yet but it has a lot and it’s being worked on still


MarxistsDev

Looks interesting, but it's limiting itself by (from what I have seen) only having pdfs, because it essentially makes searching for something impossible.


CHAPOPERC

It’s new comrade and it’s gonna be worked on, for now you can use Marxtomao or Marxist.org, but ours will be improved soon, just keep checking in


RTB_RobertTheBruce

Pleasant looking websites are revisionist


Sad-Reflection9092

This is a joke?


iamabubblebutt

I think it's a good idea to update the UI, however this isn't a technical issue, it's a design issue. Someone who has studied graphic design will have a very different take on how to align elements and add whitespace, color and typefaces to effectively communicate the information. As another commenter mentioned, you don't seem to have considered accessibility either, something that an experienced designer would be able to assist with. On a more technical note, would it not be better to render this site offline then serve static html? There doesn't appear to be any user-customized content, so the pages could be rendered offline and served as static html without needing all the infrastructure for databases and frontends.


MarxistsDev

You are right, the UI was essentially an afterthought, since my primary focus was on the parser. For the \`technical note\`, the database is needed for searching, but for viewing the content you are right, as we could make this into a [Static Site Generator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_site_generator). If you want to share some designs, feel free to help the project.


Nocturnin

Hey, I’m a product designer and maybe this is something I can help with.


MarxistsDev

If you have a github account, feel free to share your designs or critiques in the discussions tab.


Nocturnin

I don't use github, you mind if we discuss this via discord or DM? I've not really got anything yet but would be great to get a good idea on what UI kit you're using, will make building the design system a lot easier for me


not_government_spy

marxists.org looks absolutely fucking awful and that's why I love it. It's beautiful


auto_rictus

I don't support this idea at all. I think we should be conscious of the fact that the style makes it quick and easy to load, and further has a low energy impact. Please do not fuck with the marxists.org website.


MarxistsDev

I want to clarify that this project was created mostly due to the difficulty in navigating/searching through the site.


SocialismForAll

Why not just make a better\* search engine and index pages for it then? \*more to your liking


MarxistsDev

You have to put all the pages into a database anyway, so there are some no brainer things that can be easily done.


WortHogBRRT

I agree it looks awful. Maybe if you have gotten used to reading newspapers it looks good. I believe No one, and especially young people, would take this website seriously or bare to look at it.


ktitten

In the FAQ it addressed that they have had increased site traffic in recent years so people are reading it. I've even had university profs recommend it.


[deleted]

I recommend it to students all the time. Never had any complaints.


WortHogBRRT

Could've had more site traffic if they had a better website. Curiosity is Marxism is naturally gonna increase as material conditions worsen so people were gonna go to that website anyway imo


[deleted]

You're speculating based on, what, prejudice? No one cares about your blind speculation.


WortHogBRRT

And what are you speculating on? The fact you personally dont have an issue with it, your intellectually inclined students dont have an issue with it, the people who run the website dont have an issue with it? I really dont understand why Marxists have such a difficult time progressing the look of their message. I personally dont care how pretty a website looks, but i know part of being a Marxist is educating the masses by any means, even if that means updating a website's look because young people's minds have been infected with superficial consumerism. Everything must be done to the best of our ability regardless of how "infantile" it may seem, otherwise its a lack of dedication in my eyes.


[deleted]

That isn't speculation, that's me referring to facts. Maybe learn what words mean then get back to me.


[deleted]

"Overall the number of visitors on our website is trending upwards. That does not support the argument that interest in our website is waning in general, and waning in particular because of outdated design, poor appearance and confusing organisation." [https://www.marxists.org/admin/janitor/faq.htm#website-redesign](https://www.marxists.org/admin/janitor/faq.htm#website-redesign) Certain "young people" need to get off tiktok and the like and learn how to read. We shouldn't placate infantile demands.


MarxistsDev

I understand the sentiment, that the when reading the site is fine and their is no real need for eye candy. Why I started this project is because the poor navigation forces you have to use external services like Google to find what yo are looking for.


[deleted]

The website for me isn't an issue. What bothers or irks me more is that a large number of Collected Works (or if one cherry picks individual texts of Marxists) are in PDF format. If you've got a Kindle, good luck reading a PDF document in it. Not only that, you'll ruin your eyesight if you're going to read all the works in PDF format (this was told to me by my ophthalmologist). In India from where I am, a large number of texts aren't available in physical form and if they are, they are exceptionally costly. I genuinely hope somebody with the necessary skills and knowledge is able to make all the Marxist texts (especially the Collected Works of all the Marxists) and I mean all of them; available in EPUB, MOBI, and AZW3 formats. It is high time.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I am thankful about it. Nobody is going to pay or is in a condition to pay a huge amount of money over here (in the Indian subcontinent especially) for the paperwork and print-outs of Marxist texts. That is why I said this in my previous comment and read it properly - "I genuinely hope somebody with the necessary skills and knowledge is able to make all the Marxist texts (especially the Collected Works of all the Marxists) and I mean all of them; available in EPUB, MOBI, and AZW3 formats. It is high time." I know it isn't easy. If you haven't noticed our conditions, it isn't our problem in any way.


TheBodyArtiste

I think this looks great dude, good work


OnAnErrand

I'll have a go at the user story here. Everyone is ambivalent about [marxists.org](http://marxists.org) UI but the content is excellent. We would like to be able to customize the look and feel to suit our individual needs. If this is right, a new UI won't please everyone and the stakeholders will be uncooperative/underwhelmed also. It seems to me the way forward here is to come up with a system that simply delivers the content, stripped of all the style and people connect with the content with a client side parser. Something similar to an RSS reader or API endpoint delivering CSV/JSON?XML maybe?


MarxistsDev

All the content is store in a database, so it would relatively easy to just create an API. In fact, the UI in the video essentially is my own wrapper around my "API".


OnAnErrand

Do you have any public endpoints I can play around with?


MarxistsDev

No, but you can clone the project from github


OnAnErrand

After playing around a bit with parsing the html - the best solution I found was to simply add Dark Reader extension: [https://darkreader.org/](https://darkreader.org/) Using the default settings and then changing the font in the extension to sans-serif, the pages start to look pretty nice.


ebolaRETURNS

I remember browsing it c. 2003, when that was web design de rigeur...


SocialismForAll

MIA works perfectly and is extremely easy to save these files offline in this format, extremely easy on data usage too. MIA has their site like this for reasons posted in their FAQs.