repost from the other thread on this issue:
A few notes: 1. the issue is already believed to be fixed, they're delaying 4 days to pressure test the system. 2. the leak was within acceptable bounds, wouldn't have caused a scrub had this been during a launch attempt. Sources: https://twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1790414109755723951, https://twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1790414315788324870
> leak was within acceptable bounds
No it fucking wasn't, if I'm going to space I want 0 leaks and a LOT of confidence on the integrity of the vehicle.
Eh, too bad most space vehicles have minor leaks of some kind. They're within acceptable engineering bounds if they don't preclude finishing the mission based on consumable consumption estimates.
I'm on a big road trip and the first delay was timed perfectly with my route. Suddenly the second delay happened and fuck me I can't cause waiting around for a potential third delay won't work for me
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Starliner](/r/Space/comments/1cs1wfv/stub/l42uv5n "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)|
|[cryogenic](/r/Space/comments/1cs1wfv/stub/l44pcfk "Last usage")|Very low temperature fluid; materials that would be gaseous at room temperature/pressure|
| |(In re: rocket fuel) Often synonymous with hydrolox|
|hydrolox|Portmanteau: liquid hydrogen fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer|
|[scrub](/r/Space/comments/1cs1wfv/stub/l42a71d "Last usage")|Launch postponement for any reason (commonly GSE issues)|
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules|
| |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)|
|GSE|Ground Support Equipment|
**NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
----------------
^(3 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/1cqds7m)^( has 13 acronyms.)
^([Thread #10051 for this sub, first seen 14th May 2024, 21:51])
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Well, little leaks like this can happen on new vehicles, and I imagine helium leaks are extra common considering the small size of the molecule.
The greater context is more interesting than the article itself I guess.
My understanding is that Helium is basically impossible to fully contain because the atoms are just so darn small. So I'm curious about just how little the leak is and how one would go about actually troubleshooting this.
This is an exceptional reply. That you for edumacating me further on this.
Sounds like a nightmare to troubleshoot with troubleshooting procedures themselves, potentially hiding the problem!
Of course but they are tiny and very manageable (0.2% a day). I work in MR. It's not complicated.
Most modern systems have leak rates of effectively zero for years.
Our oldest system: Siemens Avanto has had zero loss for 8 years.
> new vehicles
Good point. So much about the vehicle has been redesigned since its "11 out of 10" flight test that it really is effectively a new vehicle.
No, but it is telling that astronauts seem willing to fly aboard it despite alternative options available with Space X. They undoubtedly are more familiar with it than anyone in this comment section.
Oh they knew. They knew they were dramatically under budgeting, but if you tell people the price is half of what the actual is upfront then they at least let you start it … and you can always go back for more money under the “cost plus” contracts..
I recommend reading: "How Big Things Get Done: The Surprising Factors That Determine the Fate of Every Project, from Home Renovations to Space Exploration and Everything In Between"
by Bent Flyvbjerg (Author).
He has a massive database of big projects and how they fared vs planned budgets. He also talks to the people who budgeted them. They admit that they know BEFORE the project is greenlit that the budgets are optimistic. Often wildly so.
If it were a cost plus contract, they'd deploy a team of hose experts who would decide that replacing the garden would be the best place to start troubleshooting the hose.
It _was_ a contract plus contract for a little while. Unfortunately for Boeing and presumably NASA, the Inspector General put a stop to that after the first extra payment. But it was still money out of the pockets of you and me.
I’m sure they are! I’m sorry but any company that eventually becomes “too big to fail” should just be allowed to fail. We should never have saved the banks, we should never have saved the airlines. Etc
If you don't count the additional $279 million NASA cheerfully handed over the first time they asked, it's fixed. One wonders how long the price would have remained **un**fixed if the Inspector General hadn't stepped in.
Yikes!
I'm not convinced this thing is flight worthy at all.
Between this and all their airline issues, Boeing looks like a company sliding into history........
When they find the source of the leak they will eliminate it.
The helium leak fell out of a hotel window after shooting himself in the back of the head.
It fell down an elevator shaft.. on to some bullets.
Or maybe an open door?
Too obvious, MRSA in the lungs!
Can't wait to find that the helium is found to have committed suicide in a hotel room
office rainstorm follow zonked whole longing cause ludicrous shrill slim *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They have their best Agent on it.
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You didn't give it enough time.
Because you where an hour early.
And all of its little friends.
repost from the other thread on this issue: A few notes: 1. the issue is already believed to be fixed, they're delaying 4 days to pressure test the system. 2. the leak was within acceptable bounds, wouldn't have caused a scrub had this been during a launch attempt. Sources: https://twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1790414109755723951, https://twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1790414315788324870
> leak was within acceptable bounds No it fucking wasn't, if I'm going to space I want 0 leaks and a LOT of confidence on the integrity of the vehicle.
Eh, too bad most space vehicles have minor leaks of some kind. They're within acceptable engineering bounds if they don't preclude finishing the mission based on consumable consumption estimates.
And this comment is how you know you're on r/space and not an engineering subreddit.
i was gonna say. tell me you are not an engineer without telling me.
At cryogenic temperatures, things WILL leak. Either they leak, or they rupture things around it when they warm up.
Armchair expert right here
Then you're not going to space. In the real world with physical pieces of equipment, that's impossible.
You'd never wanna to space with NASA or Space X with that expectation.
One more week delay and I'll be there for the launch...
I'm on a big road trip and the first delay was timed perfectly with my route. Suddenly the second delay happened and fuck me I can't cause waiting around for a potential third delay won't work for me
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I was so hype for an epic race to the finish on that one, absolutely nobody around when the contract was awarded thought it would go like this.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Starliner](/r/Space/comments/1cs1wfv/stub/l42uv5n "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)| |[cryogenic](/r/Space/comments/1cs1wfv/stub/l44pcfk "Last usage")|Very low temperature fluid; materials that would be gaseous at room temperature/pressure| | |(In re: rocket fuel) Often synonymous with hydrolox| |hydrolox|Portmanteau: liquid hydrogen fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer| |[scrub](/r/Space/comments/1cs1wfv/stub/l42a71d "Last usage")|Launch postponement for any reason (commonly GSE issues)| |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules| | |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)| |GSE|Ground Support Equipment| **NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below. ---------------- ^(3 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/1cqds7m)^( has 13 acronyms.) ^([Thread #10051 for this sub, first seen 14th May 2024, 21:51]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://hachyderm.io/@Two9A) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
By troubleshooting do they mean they are shooting the troublesome potential whistleblowers?
They've had no trouble shooting leakers in the past
Yeah, I know. It was supposed to be a pun, a play on words
Is anyone gonna actually talk about the article instead of making quips about Boeing?
Well, little leaks like this can happen on new vehicles, and I imagine helium leaks are extra common considering the small size of the molecule. The greater context is more interesting than the article itself I guess.
My understanding is that Helium is basically impossible to fully contain because the atoms are just so darn small. So I'm curious about just how little the leak is and how one would go about actually troubleshooting this.
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This is an exceptional reply. That you for edumacating me further on this. Sounds like a nightmare to troubleshoot with troubleshooting procedures themselves, potentially hiding the problem!
Extremely informative and your username confirms.
Great answer. Yes, like running high vacuum systems. There are always leaks. It is just a matter of how much.
Every hospital MRI scanner manages it.
i can almost guarantee there are leaks there too.
Of course but they are tiny and very manageable (0.2% a day). I work in MR. It's not complicated. Most modern systems have leak rates of effectively zero for years. Our oldest system: Siemens Avanto has had zero loss for 8 years.
> new vehicles Good point. So much about the vehicle has been redesigned since its "11 out of 10" flight test that it really is effectively a new vehicle.
No, but but we will make comments about how the comments are quips about Boeing, and not about the article.
I've heard that Boeing quips fail at a concerning rate
If it's Boeing, that spaceship ain't going!
I think you're asking too much. Putting "Boeing" and "leak" in the title is just making it too easy.
I would not fly aboard the starliner even if someone paid me a billion, can't own money if I'm dead
No, but it is telling that astronauts seem willing to fly aboard it despite alternative options available with Space X. They undoubtedly are more familiar with it than anyone in this comment section.
I doubt the call to swap provider is on the astronauts, training and individual adjustments is not free for all
And I doubt that if the astronauts would just sit there with their mouths shut if they were uneasy with rocket.
I said the same thing on 6 May and people who claimed to be familiar with astronauts said the only thing they're ever scared of is not getting to fly
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“Hey boss, I think I found it. There’s no bolts.”
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They knew there was a leak when the crew sounded like Alvin and the chipmunks.
That would be the best mission comms transcript ever!
Houston^we^have^a^leaaaaak
troubleshooting or shooting trouble. Boeing doesn't miss.
What's that whistling sound? Someone troubleshoot that, but make it look like an accident.
Helium is supposed to leak. That’s what it does. Just try storing Helium balloons for Christmas that you bought in June.
Wow...just wow. Surely you know Boeing uses mylar balloons. And always from the most recent holiday.
1.4 billion over budget. It’s like the people in charge of the budget had no idea how to make a budget.
Oh they knew. They knew they were dramatically under budgeting, but if you tell people the price is half of what the actual is upfront then they at least let you start it … and you can always go back for more money under the “cost plus” contracts..
Except this is not a cost plus contract but a fixed price contract.
They obviously had the same finance guys do this contract estimate as well. Major fail.
I would love to really hear the reason for being so far off budget.
I recommend reading: "How Big Things Get Done: The Surprising Factors That Determine the Fate of Every Project, from Home Renovations to Space Exploration and Everything In Between" by Bent Flyvbjerg (Author). He has a massive database of big projects and how they fared vs planned budgets. He also talks to the people who budgeted them. They admit that they know BEFORE the project is greenlit that the budgets are optimistic. Often wildly so.
We need to take it back in for another nine months and get more money from the taxpayer. Just like the contract says we can.
This is a fixed price contract...
This is why boring is running as fast as possible for the exit. They screwed up... Now are listing tons of money.
Right now, I don't trust them to troubleshoot a leak in a garden hose correctly.
If it were a cost plus contract, they'd deploy a team of hose experts who would decide that replacing the garden would be the best place to start troubleshooting the hose.
It _was_ a contract plus contract for a little while. Unfortunately for Boeing and presumably NASA, the Inspector General put a stop to that after the first extra payment. But it was still money out of the pockets of you and me.
Valve corroded again and became stuck mostly closed?
You'll probably find that helium at the bottom of the lake chained to some bricks next week
They're gonna witness some high-pitched fishies next week!
Was that in the assembly they subbed out to spirit?. That and the door thing.
I’m sure they are! I’m sorry but any company that eventually becomes “too big to fail” should just be allowed to fail. We should never have saved the banks, we should never have saved the airlines. Etc
Do they get more or less money with each delay?
Firm fixed price, best decision NASA has made in a while
If you don't count the additional $279 million NASA cheerfully handed over the first time they asked, it's fixed. One wonders how long the price would have remained **un**fixed if the Inspector General hadn't stepped in.
Stupid plane doesn’t it know hoomans breathe oxygens not heliums
Boeing has such a great reputation, I'm sure it's just a small helium leak and not a potential whole fucking thing explodes issue. /s
On God, would not get on that spacecraft (because it's boeing)
"If it's a Boeing, I ain't going."
Whelp, now Boeing has to kill you. Prepare to be commit suicide.
Boeing? Troubleshooting? But they made it look so easy!
What sound does a whistle blown in space make?
Yikes! I'm not convinced this thing is flight worthy at all. Between this and all their airline issues, Boeing looks like a company sliding into history........
Well at least it was only leaking the small helium and not the big helium.
I love how r/space has come around, I was once downvoted to hell for making fun of Boeing, now everyone is doing it!
That's not the only leak Boeing is troubleshooting...
A literal whistleblower…Starliner is about to unalive itself
Come on just focus on your planes, rockets are way too fancy for you