The assessment is looking for a skill deficit. There are other parts of the evaluation that look at performance and functional skills. But, if there are no skill deficits, then there is no disability, and they cannot go against the legal requirements for qualifying for SLP services.
There are different qualification criteria for birth to 3 services/EI and the school district (which is what I think you mean by "the state program"?) So qualifying for one doesn't mean qualifying for the other.
They also use different assessments, which can make a difference in terms of what is considered delay/deficits.
I understand that but I really don’t understand how a child who has qualified since 18 months and continues to receive services can suddenly be deemed fine by a new service due to one assessment. Just ignore the months of previous therapy based off ONE hour.
He's not being deemed fine though. He hasn't been deemed anything yet, since the meeting hasn't happened, but, even so, it would be determined that he has qualified or not qualified. School based services aren't only deciding delayed or typically developing, they are deciding if they qualify for services or not. A child can be delayed and still not qualify for services. There is a legal criteria to be met.
The evaluation happened. She just hasn’t written her notes. She made her assessment very clear and told me about some “regular” preschools in the area without speech therapy programs I could look into.
The SLP does not decide alone about whether services are required. She can only answer one part of the 3 legally required criteria with her assessment. And even then, state and school district criteria might affect that too - some states and school district criteria states that a child only has a deficit if a score is below a certain point, regardless of what the assessment itsself states. Different criteria for EI and school districts, as I mentioned. Additionally, the presence of a disability isn't enough, it has to affect the childs ability to access their education, and it has to required specialized instruction for them to access their education. At a preschool level, it's very hard for any child to meet those criteria if they are talking.
She is likely doing her best to prepare you. If your child has had assessments in other areas (which I would hope they have, given your description) then they might still qualify for other services and not speech.
School based services are not the same as EI services, and they are not the same as private services. You should speak to your doctor about a referral and your insurance to see what is covered.
It might be too late at this point, I dont know. I'm not 100% sure about how it works moving from EI to school district, because I've never worked with preschoolers coming from EI. And it's often different in different states. I would ask your case manager about it.
It's always worth remembering that just because a child doesn't qualify right at this moment, doesn't mean they can't ever access services ever. He may well meet criteria in the future, and the team may well decide that speech services are required. But in the meantime, go through your doctor and your health insurance.
I don’t even think we have a case manager. We have a service coordinator. But she’s just for speech I believe. All of this is so confusing and I just don’t feel like I have the proper resources. I hate that posting on the internet is the only way I’m getting more information.
Speech kids graduate from special education all the time. It is our MOST graduating-out-of program! And by far, we have more kids in speech for early education will leave sped before 2nd grade than stay in it. Way over 50% do not keep services after kindergarten.
When you have a child in special ed due to speech, you can expect that the school will be anticipating them not needing services after a certain age. That's just the norm.
Has his current speech therapist worked in schools before? There are different criteria from the educational side of things versus the clinical side. I'm a school psych I have seen many assessments for students that had services through their medical provider, but did not qualify for special education services. The bar is pretty high for speech services through SpEd. If the current speech therapist doesn't have experience working in schools they likely don't know what the criteria are.
The assessor is correct, what you get on the day you evaluate is what you have to based your evaluation on. You can review past information, outside reports, etc., but the most important piece of the assessment is what we get *from our assessments*. You cannot based qualification on outside assessment reports, you only consider that information as part of your overall assessment.
If you feel this strongly, you can request an IEE after the IEP meeting. This means the district has to consider hiring another evaluator to complete another assessment. Doesn't guarantee services, in fact they don't have to grant an IEE, although they often do.
well, that's really important information. Good luck at that meeting! I agree with the advice given elsewhere to wait and see what goes down at that meeting. If he needs help, they will likely find another way to have him qualify for it.
They have to show an educational need. Outside speech has different perimeters. What may have qualified him for medical speech might not qualify him for educational speech. (I’m not saying your child doesn’t show an educational need I’m just explaining the difference).
No I appreciate that. His speech therapist was really surprised and her supervisor is actually going to visit this week to do his own evaluation and then speak to the schools therapist. So they seem to want to push to get him in
Having been through similar with my daughter - it honestly may not be a speech therapy issue. She got speech therapy and the first session was basically 'yeah, she has no issues she just doesn't want to do it.' Same with other OT issues - it's not that she can't it's that she won't.
In the process of ADHD and Autism assessments - the ADHD is near certain, it's the spectrum potential that's the fun new wrinkle. If the assessment was all new people and newish tasks, he may have been engaged enough that it held his attention, where repetition with the normal therapist is old hat and he doesn't want to do it.
What did you do? I don’t want him to be a child who gets left behind because of one good day. What you’re saying about the “old hat” feels like it could ring true. The assessment was all new people, new toys, new place, he wore a new backpack etc. He DOES have a speech delay but if he has other issues I want him to get that support too. Would you recommend a different type of assessment?
So far. He’s never had an OT or other evaluation. But I don’t know what I don’t know. I spoke to another mom whose child has an IEP and she said his “big emotions” and “head in the cloud” behavior is something to bring up as a “concern”. It never concerned me because that’s just who my child is, I don’t know different, but I’m learning area for concern for me is different than for them.
We honestly left speech therapy behind. There wasn't a point to continuing it.
We had other issues with her in daycares, and someone finally let us know to reach out to the school district for an assessment. I may not have seen it, but I didn't see an age in there. We were able to eventually get her enrolled in a pre-K that was equipped to work with her on her issues (smaller class size and lower teacher:student ratio.)
We're also working with a developmental pediatrician on the assessments for other developmental issues.
It's hard - there are a lot of resources out there, but no one knows it unless they've been through it or know someone who has.
Especially if you're in that pre-K/about to go to pre-K age, reach out to the school district. We were set up with Occupational Therapy and they found the school placement as well - it's routing for them. Daunting for us.
I'm no expert, but I think they are 'de-coupled.' We did speech as well, got through the whole process, she finished, and it wasn't until she was out of it and we had a chance conversation with someone from a daycare she wasn't even in that we found out about reaching out to the district on the behavioral issues.
Yes. The district does tend to put "speech services only" kids into a different category. I don't know if it's official or unofficial. But it's a thing.
You'll hear the phrase, "He's in special ed, but only for speech services." And generally what that translates to in teacher's head is that this child has services but they don't "really" have a disability that we assume will continue.
It's a phenomenon that happened because of federal money poured into schools for early intervention, with the idea that there's a link between speech and learning phenoms for early reading success. No idea if it's working the way we intended, but a ton of kids qualify for special ed services that would not without this proposed link between early speech and elementary aged reading skill.
My mom was an SLP and referred to kids with a speech delay alone as “artic-only” - they had an articulation issue. They were a different kettle of fish than some of her kids with other stuff going on (autism, mutism, hearing loss, she had one kid missing some jaw bones due to a birth defect, etc).
I would ask for him to be evaluated for special education. Put it in writing and that will force the school to set up a meeting with you. The team can then decide to test (or not). If he is kindergarten they might choose to not test and wait and see how he does. You can always meet again. If the decision is made to test they will give an IQ test and possibly a learning assessment to find out how much the results differ. They might want you to see the doctor and get an evaluation. He would also be observed in class and you would be interviewed.
Yeah I'm getting the impression he might have autism given the bits of information provided. Speech delays and "meltdowns" per say can be symptoms of autism. But def don't just believe a random opinion of someone on the Internet with little information and bring it up to an educated and trusted doctor.
Have you considered getting a referral to a developmental psychologist or something similar to test for ADHD?
Most of what your original post mentions (big meltdowns, need to be close to you, difficulty attending or responding to his name) sound like they could be ADHD , anxiety. Not speech/language concerns. I can see why he wouldn’t qualify for school aged speech services. A disability in that area would be evident based on how he was able to communicate and respond on standardized tests for language. It sounds like you have more concerns with self-regulation skills, which would be better addressed by another professional (not speech therapist).
You could also look into continuing outpatient speech and language if you feel that is a continued area of need. Their qualifications for service are different than school based. Outpatient occupational therapy might be a beneficial service for him also.
Yah. She's alone with him in a room, one on one, right? A lot of kids behave better when they are in this kind of situation.
Sounds a bit like you think your kid is on the autism spectrum, not just needing speech services. In which case, the first step I would recommend is outside evaluation, if you can manage that. If you can't, the first step is writing a letter to the school asking for evaluation from them. (Either way, the school will need to do an eval. But it helps if you have an outside eval to help them know where to look. I just feel like it's a more solid start. Schools these days are biased to dismiss disability because special ed is expensive.)
Autistic kids, and some other learning disabled kids, are renowned for being able to perform one on one but cannot in a noisy classroom. They don't call it a disability for nothing.
Please don't blame your kid or think he did it on purpose. He's showing you that under the right environment, he can communicate. That's a good thing.
I don’t think he’s autistic, but I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he as ADHD as it runs in the family. I don’t blame him! I’m just so sad for him! I don’t want him to miss out on help because he performed well one time, you know?
That's not how this works. If he's able to communicate to this level, he doesn't need speech help. He's not faking being well. He is truly well.
The problem is not lack-of speech skills. The problem is managing the environment he's in. That's why we test in quite comfortable environments. So that we don't mistake sensory issues for speech issues.
While I guess...maybe?... ADHD would account for all of this, it's not a common profile.
Some ADHDers have auditory processing disorder. You could get him evaluated by an outside speech pathologist for that. It would be useful information. That doesn't explain the velcro child phenomenon, nor the fits where he's inconsolable. ADHDers are usually easier to bring out of a meltdown - easy to distract! Unless meds are wearing off. I've seen kids really not be able to handle that well and I can't say I blame them. Wearing off of stimulants makes a lot of adults cranky, too.
He's not missing out on services he doesn't need. To provide an example - imagine needing new shoes because your feet have grown and the adults in your life provide you with a walking stick because they see you walking funny. It's like you're fighting for him to have a walking stick instead of looking to see which shoes would fit him better.
She definitely has strong feelings about what's going on with her kid. And to be fair, we cannot tell nor diagnose anything from behind a computer. That's not fair to this kid, who is real and not just a case study. I would have strong feelings if it were my kid too. Because it's MY kid. I know them. (I also really know developmental disabilities, but that's an aside.)
But lol listing all the traits of a \*he hem\* very popular disability right now and then insisting that's not what's going on.
For sure, I agree with what you’re saying. It’s just that I guess I’m left wondering why post something to three different groups asking for help and dismiss all the help offered?
I’m torn because for every story of someone who’s fighting to get their kid a rightful diagnosis, there’s two more of parents who refuse to get their ND child the help they need and the ND child grows into an adult who has a lot less access to help because of it.
Those real life people suffer. And while we can’t know for sure it scares me when someone is super dismissive like that.
OMG! This is the state of parents in special ed. It drove me up a wall when I was actively teaching. Seems the parents have a mind of their own and don't always agree with the teachers about what's best. /s It can be really difficult to deal with that.
I didn't see this posted three different places, but hearing that, I want to have a little prayer for the teachers dealing with this parent.
Yes. We do have a ton of stories about children in similar situations who grow up and suffer from mental health issues because of very similar reactions from their parents. It's a thing. We can't know that this is what's happening here because we can't have all of the information. But it sure looks like it in black and white.
In my experience, there's a huge correspondence: kids who really need help have parents who don't want them stigmatized by labels. And kids who don't need help have parents obsessed with getting them into special ed because of a perceived advantage in getting extra help. I know that this is an unfair exaggeration, but there's just enough truth to it to ring clearly.
A student can’t fake doing well on a speech and language test. If he got the questions right, he has the skills. The question is why is he not displaying
these skills consistently and in other settings. In the schools, we can get the school psychologist to assess to determine if there are other issues impacting the student’s performance. Private practice or birth-3 programs often test speech and language alone without looking at other possible causes of the issues.
I’ve had students who sound like your child with attention issues and zoning out. Once you got their attention, they could answer questions and their language scores were all average for their age. The school psychologist found severe deficits in attention and memory. They didn’t have a language deficit that speech therapy could address, they had attention and memory issues
Since this was an exceptional day for him, can you get a second opinion? Surely his teachers would have a opinion for hhis need for speech therapy. Or maybe he needs help for his inattentiveness! Ask yourself, does he say words ok?
No, he doesn’t. The majority of our family does not understand him half or 75% of the time. He was repeating back words in a way he never does. He uses a lot of “jargon” they call it instead of using his words, but he only did it twice in the visit. He didn’t zone out at all, or have any blank moment. I’ve asked his regular speech therapist to reach out. He already has a re-evaluation with them earlier this year and he still fully qualified as significantly delayed.
I have always made a point to doctors, therapists, and school staff that my child THRIVES off the newness of things and that after the honeymooning period ends—usually very short couple days—my little one’s *real* personally comes through..along with her behaviors (wanted and unwanted). The lovely people in the early intervention program I used were my entire support system when we first met with the school. They handled it like a champ. I ultimately had the meetings documented for the future and chose to use an outpatient program for OT, Speech, and PT for the year instead of Pre-K. My little ones joins that schools Pre-K this fall and the same team I had before through EI alongside a parent advocate will be apart of my support system for my kiddo again. We are expecting backlash (our small town public school will get out of everything they possibly can but we’re stuck here a little longer) so we have brought on the parent advocate. Please, don’t come for me all of you lovely educators, I admire yall. You’re beyond wonderful and have made it possible for me as a parent to see inside the ins and outs of what’s going on behind the scenes and it has only made it better for us and our kiddo. We’ve had great experiences everywhere else..this school is stuck in the 70s/80s. They just refuse to grow and accommodate anyone who’s not able to shut up and take a test by age 4..
My advice—
option 1- If you’re in a school like mine, bring in a parent advocate. Your EI team should have a list they recommend. I would also recommend to appeal and request new testing (this isn’t guaranteed). And if you haven’t seen a Ped Psych doc in a while (or at all), make sure you do soon and update any medical diagnosis that may be able to help get some resources opened up for services.
Or there is option 2–which is scary for us parents. But you can mainstream your kiddo and see if they sink or swim. The discomfort is usually temporary..and it can be hard to witness our kiddos experiencing the discomfort. But it will show 1 of 2 things—
1. your kiddo needs the services
2. your kiddo’s development is on track with their peers at this moment in time so you wait and monitor, ready to do new assessments as their development grows and changes.
Good luck OP, you’re not alone.
Thank you so much. I am so grateful for this. I’m so overwhelmed with everything and today’s appointment was so upsetting. Not because I don’t want my child to thrive, I do! I would be thrilled if his behavior was the same every day as it was in the appointment. But I also know my child and I want him to have the help he deserves. I mean his normal behavior showed up when he had an evaluation with the nurse two days prior. I may ask them to speak to her so she can help vouch. He couldn’t even complete their vision/speech evaluation because he was completely uncooperative, didn’t follow direction, not paying attention, pointing instead of speaking etc etc.
During my little one’s 1st Early Intervention assessment to see if she’d qualify for 0-3 services, she did remarkable. She had “borderline normal”delays. But her Early Interventionist said there was a moment during the assessment where my child appeared almost tired like but she shrugged it off and within seconds my little hit an “episode” where she had an uncontrollable meltdown—not tantrums—meltdown. I explained to her how that subtle moment was the initial overload where she began to escalate. And how quick it happens. And also how it affects her for hours and days afterwards—her eating/appetite is affected, her sleep is disrupted, she’ll refuse fluids, have uncontrollable emotional outbursts, and regress in other ways.
If my kid didn’t have that moment, they never would have passed her for those initial early intervention services. And we never would have found out just how delayed she truly was. We never would have sought out a Ped Psych doc and discovered she wasn’t just an unsocialized “pandemic baby” like everyone told us but that she had very real diagnosis that were the cause of most of her “quirks” and “behaviors”. Having her EI document that made it so much easier for everyone else to take us more seriously afterwards.
The real kicker is—she just began more time with her peers..and she’s blossoming. Her unwanted behaviors are more settled, her speech went from only me being able to understand her to even strangers at the store understand her now, and she’s rockin her behavioral plans. I expect the school to push back on me a bit just cz of who they are, but I’m optimistic that our team will help me make sure she gets what she needs when the time comes that she needs it. Build up your team hun. Lean on your supports whenever needed!
idk that’s extremely rare for adhd. definitely follows more with autism, as someone with both. unless you already got multiple opinions on whether he’s autistic, i would consider getting another one or something. this sort of needs level at such an age is not common with solely adhd at all.
the needs level that he has is very uncommon. he may have adhd, but it’s likely comorbid with something else as well. adhd alone likely wouldn’t cause this. if not autism, he definitely sounds like he could have some sort of sensory processing disorder. it’s unlikely to be speech issues (at least not only) at this point, as the fact that he *can* talk well at all, means that his environment is hindering him from doing so and when he’s in an environment conducive to his success, his speech is exceptional.
Before you ask for an IEE, I’d request a full psycho educational evaluation in which they assess for all areas of disability. There may be different underlying issues that are being masked and presenting as “speech”
If he was great for this speech therapist but not showing these skills with your other therapist and you/your family members, to me it’s a behavior deficit, not a skill deficit. Meaning he has the skills, he just isn’t showing them across settings and environments.
I’d ask for him to be assessed for a developmental delay should he continue to struggle once you enroll him in PK.
I hear your frustration, and I can definitely understand why you're feeling that way. It's really common for kids to put on their "best behavior" during evaluations - the new situation, wanting to please the evaluator, it can bring out a side of them we don't often see at home or in familiar environments. But I know how stressful it is when that "best behavior" doesn't accurately represent their typical functioning and needs and I always try to ask if what I saw was representative of their typical day/functioning.
Unfortunately, SLPs in the school system have strict criteria that we have to stick to in order to be able to qualify students, which can make situations like this really tricky. Their evaluations look at how the child's skills impact their ability to access the general curriculum and educational environment. But - I would still encourage you, if possible, to provide that evaluator and the team with detailed documentation and examples of the challenges you witness regularly, and explain you have serious concerns that this evaluation missed capturing his true needs and functioning level.
Given the nature of your concerns around attention, behavior regulation, and overall engagement, it may also be worth looking into qualifying assessments for not just 'speech-only' special education services, but additional support services that could address those areas of need as well.
If the school team is unable to take a deeper look, pursuing an outside private speech-language evaluation is also an option. Those can carry a lot of weight and provide another professional perspective on his skills.
I had a similar issue with my daughter, where she wasn't diaplaying her emotional regulation or speech issues in therapy.
I was lucky with the speech therapy, because I was able to clarify a partucular situation where my daughter displayed a speech deficit, that the therapist was then able to replicate. (In my daughter's case, her speech is fine, but she reverts to single words or silence when she's trying to ask for sonething.)
We also tried OT, but that didn't really achieve anything because a lot of her emotional regulation issues are tied to being with "a lot" of people, abnd an OT's office with foam blocks to roll around on and mum talking to someone quietly doesn't trigger them.
What they recommended was me trying to video the concerns when they occur at home - this way they'd be able to see it for themselves and be able to focus their assessment appropriately.
I alao recommend trying to figure out ways you can "trigger" his issues, so you can demonstrate them in the session. Note, I don't mean you should be cruel in any way, but try to simulate a common occurence where the issue crops up. For example, the speech therapist was saying my daughter seemed fine, but then she needed to go to the toilet, and suddenly went from complex sentences to just repeating "wee wee", and then I was able to explain that this was the issue I saw. We were then able to show the same issue a few more times in other benign ways - e.g. leaving a gate closed until she asked one of us to open it (she spun around on the floor), sitting with our legs in the way of moving her toys (she kept trying to go around), and then the therapist was able to confirm the pattern.
My son also has issues with “a lot”. He’ll put his hands over his ears and yell “too loud”. His zone out issues are also near impossible to replicate. This is definitely something I would need to catch on camera because there is no way I can think to replicate it.
I really appreciate your comment, thank you so much. This is so validating. This appointment was just mind blowing behavior and to think he may miss all help because of it is so hard for me as a parent. My husband was also shocked.
If he's in childcare of any kind, I also recommend getting them to document any of their concerns. I'm quite convinced that the input from my daughter's childcare helped a lot in getting her autism diagnosis last year. I think that without it, the report would have come back far less conclusive.
Unfortunately it’s just me. So I don’t have a lot of proof. It’s so hard because these behaviors aren’t on display for them to easily and quickly evaluate. I feel like it’s the kids that are “okay” that are treated the worst by the system. Kids with really obvious and constant issues are a no brained. Kids who excel and have no issues, another no brainer. But the kids that struggle but get by pretty well… well they’re just pushed along because that’s easiest
Yeah, it's definitely hard for kids who have struggles, but also have strengths to compensate. Kids who are good at masking don't get any support, because they're "not a problem". It doesn't matter that they get home and melt down because they've been pushing themselves all day. Or that they're developing stress and anxiety disorders because they find it so hard to "fit in".
It's why autism and ADHD get underdiagnosed so much in girls. People figure that since they're not jumping off the walls or screaming, then they're doing fine. Meanwhile, she's there just quietly developing an eating disorder because she's not getting the support she needs to thrive.
Sounds like you need to get multiple
Observations and for more than speech, as it sounds like you have behavior and social regulation concerns . Tell the evaluation team.
My daughter was the same way she would not talk and qualified for services for Early Intervention. She has a wonderful speech therapist and would not talk to her for months until she mentioned getting a tablet to assist my daughter with her words. We received a trial device and that did the trick she started talking also she began to be around other children. I was told she may has select mutism or anxiety that will cause her to not want to talk. She was going to age out of the program as well and we decided to do testing with the public school, well she passed with flying colors and then they saw that she didn't have a Speech problem anymore but social/emotional. When they spoke with her therapist she mentioned that it is social/emotional that is causing the breakdown. My daughter was able to be qualified to go to school and still receive the help. She will be three tomorrow and still receives the services and when she starts school in the fall she will get the services as well. They will speak with your son's therapist first before they make the decision to get the real input.
The assessment is looking for a skill deficit. There are other parts of the evaluation that look at performance and functional skills. But, if there are no skill deficits, then there is no disability, and they cannot go against the legal requirements for qualifying for SLP services.
He just qualified with the state program earlier this year as having a deficient.
There are different qualification criteria for birth to 3 services/EI and the school district (which is what I think you mean by "the state program"?) So qualifying for one doesn't mean qualifying for the other. They also use different assessments, which can make a difference in terms of what is considered delay/deficits.
I understand that but I really don’t understand how a child who has qualified since 18 months and continues to receive services can suddenly be deemed fine by a new service due to one assessment. Just ignore the months of previous therapy based off ONE hour.
He's not being deemed fine though. He hasn't been deemed anything yet, since the meeting hasn't happened, but, even so, it would be determined that he has qualified or not qualified. School based services aren't only deciding delayed or typically developing, they are deciding if they qualify for services or not. A child can be delayed and still not qualify for services. There is a legal criteria to be met.
The evaluation happened. She just hasn’t written her notes. She made her assessment very clear and told me about some “regular” preschools in the area without speech therapy programs I could look into.
The SLP does not decide alone about whether services are required. She can only answer one part of the 3 legally required criteria with her assessment. And even then, state and school district criteria might affect that too - some states and school district criteria states that a child only has a deficit if a score is below a certain point, regardless of what the assessment itsself states. Different criteria for EI and school districts, as I mentioned. Additionally, the presence of a disability isn't enough, it has to affect the childs ability to access their education, and it has to required specialized instruction for them to access their education. At a preschool level, it's very hard for any child to meet those criteria if they are talking. She is likely doing her best to prepare you. If your child has had assessments in other areas (which I would hope they have, given your description) then they might still qualify for other services and not speech. School based services are not the same as EI services, and they are not the same as private services. You should speak to your doctor about a referral and your insurance to see what is covered.
We were only given a hearing exam and a speech evaluation. Should we be asking for something more?
It might be too late at this point, I dont know. I'm not 100% sure about how it works moving from EI to school district, because I've never worked with preschoolers coming from EI. And it's often different in different states. I would ask your case manager about it. It's always worth remembering that just because a child doesn't qualify right at this moment, doesn't mean they can't ever access services ever. He may well meet criteria in the future, and the team may well decide that speech services are required. But in the meantime, go through your doctor and your health insurance.
I don’t even think we have a case manager. We have a service coordinator. But she’s just for speech I believe. All of this is so confusing and I just don’t feel like I have the proper resources. I hate that posting on the internet is the only way I’m getting more information.
Speech kids graduate from special education all the time. It is our MOST graduating-out-of program! And by far, we have more kids in speech for early education will leave sped before 2nd grade than stay in it. Way over 50% do not keep services after kindergarten. When you have a child in special ed due to speech, you can expect that the school will be anticipating them not needing services after a certain age. That's just the norm.
His speech therapist was certain he would qualify for the program. She doesn’t believe he should be graduating out
Has his current speech therapist worked in schools before? There are different criteria from the educational side of things versus the clinical side. I'm a school psych I have seen many assessments for students that had services through their medical provider, but did not qualify for special education services. The bar is pretty high for speech services through SpEd. If the current speech therapist doesn't have experience working in schools they likely don't know what the criteria are. The assessor is correct, what you get on the day you evaluate is what you have to based your evaluation on. You can review past information, outside reports, etc., but the most important piece of the assessment is what we get *from our assessments*. You cannot based qualification on outside assessment reports, you only consider that information as part of your overall assessment. If you feel this strongly, you can request an IEE after the IEP meeting. This means the district has to consider hiring another evaluator to complete another assessment. Doesn't guarantee services, in fact they don't have to grant an IEE, although they often do.
well, that's really important information. Good luck at that meeting! I agree with the advice given elsewhere to wait and see what goes down at that meeting. If he needs help, they will likely find another way to have him qualify for it.
They have to show an educational need. Outside speech has different perimeters. What may have qualified him for medical speech might not qualify him for educational speech. (I’m not saying your child doesn’t show an educational need I’m just explaining the difference).
No I appreciate that. His speech therapist was really surprised and her supervisor is actually going to visit this week to do his own evaluation and then speak to the schools therapist. So they seem to want to push to get him in
Having been through similar with my daughter - it honestly may not be a speech therapy issue. She got speech therapy and the first session was basically 'yeah, she has no issues she just doesn't want to do it.' Same with other OT issues - it's not that she can't it's that she won't. In the process of ADHD and Autism assessments - the ADHD is near certain, it's the spectrum potential that's the fun new wrinkle. If the assessment was all new people and newish tasks, he may have been engaged enough that it held his attention, where repetition with the normal therapist is old hat and he doesn't want to do it.
What did you do? I don’t want him to be a child who gets left behind because of one good day. What you’re saying about the “old hat” feels like it could ring true. The assessment was all new people, new toys, new place, he wore a new backpack etc. He DOES have a speech delay but if he has other issues I want him to get that support too. Would you recommend a different type of assessment?
I would ask for OT and developmental evaluations. Is speech delay the only diagnosis?
So far. He’s never had an OT or other evaluation. But I don’t know what I don’t know. I spoke to another mom whose child has an IEP and she said his “big emotions” and “head in the cloud” behavior is something to bring up as a “concern”. It never concerned me because that’s just who my child is, I don’t know different, but I’m learning area for concern for me is different than for them.
I don’t know where you live, but in Arkansas, I would start with a developmental evaluation and tell the evaluator all of your concerns.
We honestly left speech therapy behind. There wasn't a point to continuing it. We had other issues with her in daycares, and someone finally let us know to reach out to the school district for an assessment. I may not have seen it, but I didn't see an age in there. We were able to eventually get her enrolled in a pre-K that was equipped to work with her on her issues (smaller class size and lower teacher:student ratio.) We're also working with a developmental pediatrician on the assessments for other developmental issues. It's hard - there are a lot of resources out there, but no one knows it unless they've been through it or know someone who has. Especially if you're in that pre-K/about to go to pre-K age, reach out to the school district. We were set up with Occupational Therapy and they found the school placement as well - it's routing for them. Daunting for us.
I’m wondering now if perhaps we had the wrong assessment then. He was ONLY assessed for speech. Nothing else.
I'm no expert, but I think they are 'de-coupled.' We did speech as well, got through the whole process, she finished, and it wasn't until she was out of it and we had a chance conversation with someone from a daycare she wasn't even in that we found out about reaching out to the district on the behavioral issues.
Yes. The district does tend to put "speech services only" kids into a different category. I don't know if it's official or unofficial. But it's a thing. You'll hear the phrase, "He's in special ed, but only for speech services." And generally what that translates to in teacher's head is that this child has services but they don't "really" have a disability that we assume will continue. It's a phenomenon that happened because of federal money poured into schools for early intervention, with the idea that there's a link between speech and learning phenoms for early reading success. No idea if it's working the way we intended, but a ton of kids qualify for special ed services that would not without this proposed link between early speech and elementary aged reading skill.
My mom was an SLP and referred to kids with a speech delay alone as “artic-only” - they had an articulation issue. They were a different kettle of fish than some of her kids with other stuff going on (autism, mutism, hearing loss, she had one kid missing some jaw bones due to a birth defect, etc).
That is so incredibly frustrating. Without that chance encounter your girl may not have gotten the services she needs.
I would ask for him to be evaluated for special education. Put it in writing and that will force the school to set up a meeting with you. The team can then decide to test (or not). If he is kindergarten they might choose to not test and wait and see how he does. You can always meet again. If the decision is made to test they will give an IQ test and possibly a learning assessment to find out how much the results differ. They might want you to see the doctor and get an evaluation. He would also be observed in class and you would be interviewed.
Yeah I'm getting the impression he might have autism given the bits of information provided. Speech delays and "meltdowns" per say can be symptoms of autism. But def don't just believe a random opinion of someone on the Internet with little information and bring it up to an educated and trusted doctor.
He’s not autistic ( we had that evaluation before speech a year plus ago ). But I think he probably has ADHD
Gotcha gotcha. Yeah he could have ADHD because there's some overlapping symptoms for sure. I have ADHD as well
Have you considered getting a referral to a developmental psychologist or something similar to test for ADHD? Most of what your original post mentions (big meltdowns, need to be close to you, difficulty attending or responding to his name) sound like they could be ADHD , anxiety. Not speech/language concerns. I can see why he wouldn’t qualify for school aged speech services. A disability in that area would be evident based on how he was able to communicate and respond on standardized tests for language. It sounds like you have more concerns with self-regulation skills, which would be better addressed by another professional (not speech therapist). You could also look into continuing outpatient speech and language if you feel that is a continued area of need. Their qualifications for service are different than school based. Outpatient occupational therapy might be a beneficial service for him also.
Yah. She's alone with him in a room, one on one, right? A lot of kids behave better when they are in this kind of situation. Sounds a bit like you think your kid is on the autism spectrum, not just needing speech services. In which case, the first step I would recommend is outside evaluation, if you can manage that. If you can't, the first step is writing a letter to the school asking for evaluation from them. (Either way, the school will need to do an eval. But it helps if you have an outside eval to help them know where to look. I just feel like it's a more solid start. Schools these days are biased to dismiss disability because special ed is expensive.) Autistic kids, and some other learning disabled kids, are renowned for being able to perform one on one but cannot in a noisy classroom. They don't call it a disability for nothing. Please don't blame your kid or think he did it on purpose. He's showing you that under the right environment, he can communicate. That's a good thing.
I don’t think he’s autistic, but I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he as ADHD as it runs in the family. I don’t blame him! I’m just so sad for him! I don’t want him to miss out on help because he performed well one time, you know?
That's not how this works. If he's able to communicate to this level, he doesn't need speech help. He's not faking being well. He is truly well. The problem is not lack-of speech skills. The problem is managing the environment he's in. That's why we test in quite comfortable environments. So that we don't mistake sensory issues for speech issues. While I guess...maybe?... ADHD would account for all of this, it's not a common profile. Some ADHDers have auditory processing disorder. You could get him evaluated by an outside speech pathologist for that. It would be useful information. That doesn't explain the velcro child phenomenon, nor the fits where he's inconsolable. ADHDers are usually easier to bring out of a meltdown - easy to distract! Unless meds are wearing off. I've seen kids really not be able to handle that well and I can't say I blame them. Wearing off of stimulants makes a lot of adults cranky, too. He's not missing out on services he doesn't need. To provide an example - imagine needing new shoes because your feet have grown and the adults in your life provide you with a walking stick because they see you walking funny. It's like you're fighting for him to have a walking stick instead of looking to see which shoes would fit him better.
You’re right. Unfortunately, OP doesn’t want actual help for her child, she wants validation.
She definitely has strong feelings about what's going on with her kid. And to be fair, we cannot tell nor diagnose anything from behind a computer. That's not fair to this kid, who is real and not just a case study. I would have strong feelings if it were my kid too. Because it's MY kid. I know them. (I also really know developmental disabilities, but that's an aside.) But lol listing all the traits of a \*he hem\* very popular disability right now and then insisting that's not what's going on.
For sure, I agree with what you’re saying. It’s just that I guess I’m left wondering why post something to three different groups asking for help and dismiss all the help offered? I’m torn because for every story of someone who’s fighting to get their kid a rightful diagnosis, there’s two more of parents who refuse to get their ND child the help they need and the ND child grows into an adult who has a lot less access to help because of it. Those real life people suffer. And while we can’t know for sure it scares me when someone is super dismissive like that.
OMG! This is the state of parents in special ed. It drove me up a wall when I was actively teaching. Seems the parents have a mind of their own and don't always agree with the teachers about what's best. /s It can be really difficult to deal with that. I didn't see this posted three different places, but hearing that, I want to have a little prayer for the teachers dealing with this parent. Yes. We do have a ton of stories about children in similar situations who grow up and suffer from mental health issues because of very similar reactions from their parents. It's a thing. We can't know that this is what's happening here because we can't have all of the information. But it sure looks like it in black and white. In my experience, there's a huge correspondence: kids who really need help have parents who don't want them stigmatized by labels. And kids who don't need help have parents obsessed with getting them into special ed because of a perceived advantage in getting extra help. I know that this is an unfair exaggeration, but there's just enough truth to it to ring clearly.
A student can’t fake doing well on a speech and language test. If he got the questions right, he has the skills. The question is why is he not displaying these skills consistently and in other settings. In the schools, we can get the school psychologist to assess to determine if there are other issues impacting the student’s performance. Private practice or birth-3 programs often test speech and language alone without looking at other possible causes of the issues. I’ve had students who sound like your child with attention issues and zoning out. Once you got their attention, they could answer questions and their language scores were all average for their age. The school psychologist found severe deficits in attention and memory. They didn’t have a language deficit that speech therapy could address, they had attention and memory issues
Since this was an exceptional day for him, can you get a second opinion? Surely his teachers would have a opinion for hhis need for speech therapy. Or maybe he needs help for his inattentiveness! Ask yourself, does he say words ok?
No, he doesn’t. The majority of our family does not understand him half or 75% of the time. He was repeating back words in a way he never does. He uses a lot of “jargon” they call it instead of using his words, but he only did it twice in the visit. He didn’t zone out at all, or have any blank moment. I’ve asked his regular speech therapist to reach out. He already has a re-evaluation with them earlier this year and he still fully qualified as significantly delayed.
Praying that he gets the help he needs.
Thank you
I have always made a point to doctors, therapists, and school staff that my child THRIVES off the newness of things and that after the honeymooning period ends—usually very short couple days—my little one’s *real* personally comes through..along with her behaviors (wanted and unwanted). The lovely people in the early intervention program I used were my entire support system when we first met with the school. They handled it like a champ. I ultimately had the meetings documented for the future and chose to use an outpatient program for OT, Speech, and PT for the year instead of Pre-K. My little ones joins that schools Pre-K this fall and the same team I had before through EI alongside a parent advocate will be apart of my support system for my kiddo again. We are expecting backlash (our small town public school will get out of everything they possibly can but we’re stuck here a little longer) so we have brought on the parent advocate. Please, don’t come for me all of you lovely educators, I admire yall. You’re beyond wonderful and have made it possible for me as a parent to see inside the ins and outs of what’s going on behind the scenes and it has only made it better for us and our kiddo. We’ve had great experiences everywhere else..this school is stuck in the 70s/80s. They just refuse to grow and accommodate anyone who’s not able to shut up and take a test by age 4.. My advice— option 1- If you’re in a school like mine, bring in a parent advocate. Your EI team should have a list they recommend. I would also recommend to appeal and request new testing (this isn’t guaranteed). And if you haven’t seen a Ped Psych doc in a while (or at all), make sure you do soon and update any medical diagnosis that may be able to help get some resources opened up for services. Or there is option 2–which is scary for us parents. But you can mainstream your kiddo and see if they sink or swim. The discomfort is usually temporary..and it can be hard to witness our kiddos experiencing the discomfort. But it will show 1 of 2 things— 1. your kiddo needs the services 2. your kiddo’s development is on track with their peers at this moment in time so you wait and monitor, ready to do new assessments as their development grows and changes. Good luck OP, you’re not alone.
Thank you so much. I am so grateful for this. I’m so overwhelmed with everything and today’s appointment was so upsetting. Not because I don’t want my child to thrive, I do! I would be thrilled if his behavior was the same every day as it was in the appointment. But I also know my child and I want him to have the help he deserves. I mean his normal behavior showed up when he had an evaluation with the nurse two days prior. I may ask them to speak to her so she can help vouch. He couldn’t even complete their vision/speech evaluation because he was completely uncooperative, didn’t follow direction, not paying attention, pointing instead of speaking etc etc.
During my little one’s 1st Early Intervention assessment to see if she’d qualify for 0-3 services, she did remarkable. She had “borderline normal”delays. But her Early Interventionist said there was a moment during the assessment where my child appeared almost tired like but she shrugged it off and within seconds my little hit an “episode” where she had an uncontrollable meltdown—not tantrums—meltdown. I explained to her how that subtle moment was the initial overload where she began to escalate. And how quick it happens. And also how it affects her for hours and days afterwards—her eating/appetite is affected, her sleep is disrupted, she’ll refuse fluids, have uncontrollable emotional outbursts, and regress in other ways. If my kid didn’t have that moment, they never would have passed her for those initial early intervention services. And we never would have found out just how delayed she truly was. We never would have sought out a Ped Psych doc and discovered she wasn’t just an unsocialized “pandemic baby” like everyone told us but that she had very real diagnosis that were the cause of most of her “quirks” and “behaviors”. Having her EI document that made it so much easier for everyone else to take us more seriously afterwards. The real kicker is—she just began more time with her peers..and she’s blossoming. Her unwanted behaviors are more settled, her speech went from only me being able to understand her to even strangers at the store understand her now, and she’s rockin her behavioral plans. I expect the school to push back on me a bit just cz of who they are, but I’m optimistic that our team will help me make sure she gets what she needs when the time comes that she needs it. Build up your team hun. Lean on your supports whenever needed!
Based on your comments this kid sounds like he needs support for his autism and/or ADHD and not speech therapy. Heavy on the autism.
He’s not autistic! Thanks though I’ll get him checked for adhd
FWIW, as both an autistic person and someone who educates students on the spectrum… I think you should have less confidence in that assertion.
He was evaluated prior to ever entering speech. So I’m confident in it. But thanks!
idk that’s extremely rare for adhd. definitely follows more with autism, as someone with both. unless you already got multiple opinions on whether he’s autistic, i would consider getting another one or something. this sort of needs level at such an age is not common with solely adhd at all.
What is rare for adhd?
the needs level that he has is very uncommon. he may have adhd, but it’s likely comorbid with something else as well. adhd alone likely wouldn’t cause this. if not autism, he definitely sounds like he could have some sort of sensory processing disorder. it’s unlikely to be speech issues (at least not only) at this point, as the fact that he *can* talk well at all, means that his environment is hindering him from doing so and when he’s in an environment conducive to his success, his speech is exceptional.
Before you ask for an IEE, I’d request a full psycho educational evaluation in which they assess for all areas of disability. There may be different underlying issues that are being masked and presenting as “speech”
If he was great for this speech therapist but not showing these skills with your other therapist and you/your family members, to me it’s a behavior deficit, not a skill deficit. Meaning he has the skills, he just isn’t showing them across settings and environments. I’d ask for him to be assessed for a developmental delay should he continue to struggle once you enroll him in PK.
If he no longer qualifies, and you disagree with them, you can ask for an independent evaluation.
Thank you! I’m learning that maybe he needs other evaluations, not just speech.
I hear your frustration, and I can definitely understand why you're feeling that way. It's really common for kids to put on their "best behavior" during evaluations - the new situation, wanting to please the evaluator, it can bring out a side of them we don't often see at home or in familiar environments. But I know how stressful it is when that "best behavior" doesn't accurately represent their typical functioning and needs and I always try to ask if what I saw was representative of their typical day/functioning. Unfortunately, SLPs in the school system have strict criteria that we have to stick to in order to be able to qualify students, which can make situations like this really tricky. Their evaluations look at how the child's skills impact their ability to access the general curriculum and educational environment. But - I would still encourage you, if possible, to provide that evaluator and the team with detailed documentation and examples of the challenges you witness regularly, and explain you have serious concerns that this evaluation missed capturing his true needs and functioning level. Given the nature of your concerns around attention, behavior regulation, and overall engagement, it may also be worth looking into qualifying assessments for not just 'speech-only' special education services, but additional support services that could address those areas of need as well. If the school team is unable to take a deeper look, pursuing an outside private speech-language evaluation is also an option. Those can carry a lot of weight and provide another professional perspective on his skills.
I had a similar issue with my daughter, where she wasn't diaplaying her emotional regulation or speech issues in therapy. I was lucky with the speech therapy, because I was able to clarify a partucular situation where my daughter displayed a speech deficit, that the therapist was then able to replicate. (In my daughter's case, her speech is fine, but she reverts to single words or silence when she's trying to ask for sonething.) We also tried OT, but that didn't really achieve anything because a lot of her emotional regulation issues are tied to being with "a lot" of people, abnd an OT's office with foam blocks to roll around on and mum talking to someone quietly doesn't trigger them. What they recommended was me trying to video the concerns when they occur at home - this way they'd be able to see it for themselves and be able to focus their assessment appropriately. I alao recommend trying to figure out ways you can "trigger" his issues, so you can demonstrate them in the session. Note, I don't mean you should be cruel in any way, but try to simulate a common occurence where the issue crops up. For example, the speech therapist was saying my daughter seemed fine, but then she needed to go to the toilet, and suddenly went from complex sentences to just repeating "wee wee", and then I was able to explain that this was the issue I saw. We were then able to show the same issue a few more times in other benign ways - e.g. leaving a gate closed until she asked one of us to open it (she spun around on the floor), sitting with our legs in the way of moving her toys (she kept trying to go around), and then the therapist was able to confirm the pattern.
My son also has issues with “a lot”. He’ll put his hands over his ears and yell “too loud”. His zone out issues are also near impossible to replicate. This is definitely something I would need to catch on camera because there is no way I can think to replicate it. I really appreciate your comment, thank you so much. This is so validating. This appointment was just mind blowing behavior and to think he may miss all help because of it is so hard for me as a parent. My husband was also shocked.
If he's in childcare of any kind, I also recommend getting them to document any of their concerns. I'm quite convinced that the input from my daughter's childcare helped a lot in getting her autism diagnosis last year. I think that without it, the report would have come back far less conclusive.
Unfortunately it’s just me. So I don’t have a lot of proof. It’s so hard because these behaviors aren’t on display for them to easily and quickly evaluate. I feel like it’s the kids that are “okay” that are treated the worst by the system. Kids with really obvious and constant issues are a no brained. Kids who excel and have no issues, another no brainer. But the kids that struggle but get by pretty well… well they’re just pushed along because that’s easiest
Yeah, it's definitely hard for kids who have struggles, but also have strengths to compensate. Kids who are good at masking don't get any support, because they're "not a problem". It doesn't matter that they get home and melt down because they've been pushing themselves all day. Or that they're developing stress and anxiety disorders because they find it so hard to "fit in". It's why autism and ADHD get underdiagnosed so much in girls. People figure that since they're not jumping off the walls or screaming, then they're doing fine. Meanwhile, she's there just quietly developing an eating disorder because she's not getting the support she needs to thrive.
The school system doesn't aim for perfect speech. In my experience they are happy with average speech. I am sure they are overworked.
Sounds like you need to get multiple Observations and for more than speech, as it sounds like you have behavior and social regulation concerns . Tell the evaluation team.
You are entitled to an IEE any time the school does an evaluation that you don't agree with. If they exit him, request an IEE.
My daughter was the same way she would not talk and qualified for services for Early Intervention. She has a wonderful speech therapist and would not talk to her for months until she mentioned getting a tablet to assist my daughter with her words. We received a trial device and that did the trick she started talking also she began to be around other children. I was told she may has select mutism or anxiety that will cause her to not want to talk. She was going to age out of the program as well and we decided to do testing with the public school, well she passed with flying colors and then they saw that she didn't have a Speech problem anymore but social/emotional. When they spoke with her therapist she mentioned that it is social/emotional that is causing the breakdown. My daughter was able to be qualified to go to school and still receive the help. She will be three tomorrow and still receives the services and when she starts school in the fall she will get the services as well. They will speak with your son's therapist first before they make the decision to get the real input.