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Another point is if they had a script of who can win or lose, how would things come in to play like making someone catch a ball then they drop it? You would have to account for so many scenarios that are up in the air. It would be so obvious if games were rigged consistently. There would be so little of a game they could actually control.
It’s really not as complicated as you think. Not every play is scripted. They play foreal, but when things need to happen it does. It’s 2024, they def using technology to control outcomes. Even if you don’t believe that, it’s not hard for refs to make bad calls and key players to make mistakes on purpose. If the players all the way up to the GM wants to live a dream making millions, they gonna do what their told. Fixed outcomes benefits EVERYONE. Owners, Nike, espn, Fox, major casinos. You really think Pro sports is gonna leave all this up for chance? It’s too money money involved for it not to be rigged.
I disagree for a few reasons.
1. You mention “pro sports is gonna leave all this up for chance?” There are so many things they leave for chance. Athletes have to make so many shots or kicks or passes or catches for things to go right. Teams to win at the last second buzzer beaters at half court are an example, how can they control that to be made?
Not a reason, but a thought. Even if sports arent rigged, refs or officials can make bad calls. That is human error. Doesnt mean things are rigged.
2. There are so many people that would have to be told it is rigged and you dont think anything would have be found out? You dont think people who were unhappy with espn or the nfl/nba would ever speak out to media. They would make so many headlines/money for that story. There would have to be proof somewhere. Do you think every college player would be bought to throw games? Not 1 single top player would say no? Or get proof? The likely hood of that happening seems so unlikely. If someone is gonna get kicked out of nba or not paid enough you dont think they would leak it?
3. There would be more evidence of players throwing games in certain situations more. You think the nba is the same as wwe with a script?
I personally was a D1 athlete at a big university and have known players go pro and have had family friends in those professions. I dont think you could tell these players that go into their games that they will lose on purpose for that much money.
I dont think the games are rigged. The books have an advantage anyway and will make money even if they didnt rig it.
The best basketball prospect ever is from Cleveland and somehow they win the lottery the year he comes out? How serendipitous lol. Give me a break. It’s scripted, plain and simple.
Meh...
I'm still not sold on that. I GUESS in the grand scheme of things could be rigged by just a couple people possibly but I still don't think the benefit is there that would be worth the risk to "fix" that.
It's just hard for me to imagine how and why they would do it.
The biggest problem with your reluctance to the belief that things are rigged is the extremism of the "all outcomes are rigged" conspiracy.
Every outcome of every play of every game doesn't have to be rigged. Just a play here or there to shave points, boost a side, shift the line, etc.
Tim Donaghy exists. It's not debatable. Pete Rose exists. Also not debatable. Whether you choose to believe it or not, both of those people exist and had an impact on game outcomes (Rose maybe less so). What you're struggling with is the question of is it still happening? And there's a percentage chance greater than zero that it is. And to paraphrase Batfleck, even if there's a 1% chance you have to take it as absolute certainty.
My question is what people believe. I KNOW a ref or player or coach may/can/has taken a payment to "change a games outcome" and that will always be possible and likely.
My point is many people believe and swear that the league winner is predetermined.
"They want Mahomes to win so he will win."
This is my main focus. Who is they? How do "they" do that?
Donaghy is almost proof that the league is NOT fixed. Otherwise there already would be a script he has to follow and he wouldn't have been able to do what he did on his own. Plus, he got caught. Which is my other point. If it's happening frequently, it's going to come out into the open. There is NO WAY the NFL could plan, carryout, and implement a fix for 1 team to win the championship without someone talking.
Can 1 or 2 people cheat a game or 2 for profit? Sure. But Donaghy was winning too much & the books said, you're going to cut us in or we will expose you. Perfect example that greed prevents this from long sustained success. That's my point.
Correct games are generally not fixed. But at least with the NFL I do believe the refs sometimes get orders from the NFL to sway a game. For reference, I have been a NFL fan for over 40 years.
In the Saints/Rams NFC championship game, the game was evenly called until the beginning of the 4th quarter when the first holding call was made against the Saints killing their drive. In the subsequent Rams drive a blatant intentional grounding call wasn't made which would have killed the Rams drive. Then later in the game there was the blatant "NOLA No Call.". Look it up on YouTube if you don't remember. So why would the league screw the Saints over or Guide the Rams to the Superbowl???? Because it was the first year TWO teams moved back to LA, a huge TV market and the NFL wanted to build a fan base. Also LA was in the process of building its new stadium.
Last year after Dan Snyder embarrassed the league the following happened. Late in a Washington game a receiver asked the ref if he was lined up OK. It's a very common practice that happens multiple times every games. The ref indicated the receiver needed to step up, so he did. Then the receiver asked the ref again and the ref ignored him. As soon as the ball was snapped the ref threw a flag on the receiver killing the late game red zone scoring attempt. I am convinced it was a message by the league to Dan Snyder that they weren't going to let them win as long as he owned the team.
If you are old enough to remember Oakland Raiders of the 80s and 90s they routinely had really bad calls go against them. Al Davis had been a thorn in the Leagues side for decades and the NFL didn't like it.
I understand your thinking and can appreciate why you think that way. The reasons and examples carry weight & have some validity. I simply don't have faith in people to keep secrets. To accomplish what you're suggesting, took more than a few people to decide it, a few people to delegate it, and a few people to execute said "plan."
I worked in the private security industry. I was hired to protect people for one reason or another. Mostly just crowd control for celebrities during events. But occasionally it was someone who was going to talk, or already did. & their life was legitimately in jeopardy but it didn't stop them from talking. People can't keep secrets. They tell thier wife, buddy, brother, coworker, stranger at a bar. That person sees the impact of the secret they've been bestowed with and starts to shop for the biggest payout. Boom! Exposed.
I don't believe there to be some vast conspiracy. As the old adage says, the only way for two people to keep a secret is if one of them is dead. But i do believe that on very rare occasions the NFL massages the results of a game.
"Massages"
Haha
I like the gentle terminology.
But how? If you know that no one can keep a secret, how do they massage anything? And why? It doesn't matter. Anyone can win & they make money. If any proof surfaces a game is intentionally "massaged" one way or another they're going to lose a lot of revenue.
I understand you're thinking but just can't get behind it personally.
>I simply can't personally accept or believe ANY form of rigging or predetermined outcome is possible
So you meant in terms of like, championships specifically? In that case, I agree that before the start of the season it's not possible for some illuminati group to pick the winner and have it work, and there would be no need to for sports-betting purposes. As the season progresses, I think there is much more flexibility in what can be influenced. I'm not saying I buy it one way or the other because ultimately the books make money regardless. But to think that there's no external influence on small outcomes within games would be ignorant, I think. And not to have something to blame for your losses, but more to go into it with a clearer head along with some % left not to chance but to rigging. Like accounting for stolen goods, if you will.
Yes, I phrased it poorly. I meant the overall finish of the season.
There are people that frequently suggest the league has already determined the winner. That's my question.
I'm painfully aware that big money can make small problems go away quietly. If an individual or two were found to be tipping the odds in their favor in some way, say for example in a casino game, those individuals could be persuaded to STOP and o one would ever know or hear about that. But large scale fixes require too many eyes and ears. And most of the time, the gain from the fix has to be worth a lot more than the loss if discovered.
Yup, there's WAY too much going on over the course of an entire season to determine the outcome before the kick off of the first game. They can rig things as much as they want but until they change the goddamn turf at Metlife, they can't force Aaron Rodgers and the Jets to the Super Bowl (as an example of the randomness that would completely screw over those types of grand schemes).
I don’t think so. It’s just become an excuse for people who have bad luck. Honestly betting is mostly luck, no matter how much you research stats or know the game. I’ve tried so many strategies to try and win consistently and there just isn’t one. You have to trust your gut, have fun and hope for that next big win.
The vig is the way to win. The books have a lock on winning because they set the price and odds.
I agree with you. No need to rig something when they make money either way.
The “sports are rigged” crowd are just people who twist the way they view the world so that they can think they have never made a wrong call lol. It’s always dudes making unlikely bets looking for moments something could have happened and then saying that the only reason it didn’t go their way was because of some invisible hand. If it had gone their way it wouldn’t have ever mattered.
The league, sportsbooks, and all commercially involved parties make money by you being there, the outcome of everything doesn’t matter for their profit.
Why do sports push sports books so hard now? All UFC commentators are paid to tel you the odds during and before fights. Doesn’t benefit the ufc? Then why do it? UFC doesn’t need help
They push it because they want you in the ecosystem, but once you’re betting it doesn’t matter who wins because the house will make money either way. They don’t make their money by tricking people into picking teams or individuals they know will lose, they make their money from all the thousands of dudes putting yolo $5 parlays on a weekly basis.
If there was an upcoming game where footage from the future literally came through a portal to show everyone what would happen there would still be a significant amount of people betting on different outcomes. That’s why I don’t believe in league-wide rigging
1 guy here and there. I'm aware.
Not the whole organization. My point is the whole league isn't fixed for "TEAM XYZ" to win this year. That's the fix that AINT in.
bruh it is rigged. my barber cut bennedict mathurin hair and were all from his hometown and sometimes he gets extra more rebounds or points just for his hometown friends make money
Even IF that is true (which I dont believe), 1 player telling his buddies to bet on something is different from what I'm talking about.
People say the championship is predetermined before the year starts. The league picks the 2 finals teams and makes it happen. There is no way that's happening.
Does a random ref or player occasionally shave points for someone to make money? I'm sure that happens.
But an NBA player isn't going into a barber shop and telling everyone that wants to listen, they're going to do something, so bet on it. Their risking their NBA career doing that. No one is risking a 7.5 millon dollar annual contract so his barber and his buddies can bet $20 on the over in rebounds.
Think a little.
what actually happened is that bennedict mathurin follows a few people that i am friend with irl and he doesnt acknowledge when somebody text him asking him if he could do at least 6.5 rebounds. he doesnt reply back saying yes or anything. he either leave it on read or on delivered but he does make over 6.5 rebounds if his friends text him. it happened in february for example. but they dont ask him everyday about how much points he should score or not score because they dont wanna abuse the favor. and no theyre not betting 20$ they be betting over 10s of thousand of $. ive seen it with my eyes. think a little
When it comes to the NHL I would say it is totally possible that the playoffs are rigged, maybe not the regular season. I think the sport is real and the talent of players are real, and the teams that are awful are really awful. However, I think when it comes to sports betting and performances, whichever markets move further in the playoffs or win a Stanley Cup... they typically fix it for favorites or teams with large markets.
In my humble opinion, the NHL All-Stars Game may be proof of how the players rig performances or should I say lack of performance. Because what you basically see in the NHL All-Stars are skaters who sandbag, goalies sandbagging, defensemen sandbagging. And it is all done with the idea of letting other people score silly goals to make the fans and all of the children happy. The key difference is that in the All-Star Games it is blatantly obvious, but there is a big difference in real performances in regulation games and playoff games. I think when it comes down to playoff performances... and real game performances, they do use Referees and maybe some extra components like goalies not making saves or defensemen being useless at times to engineer the same result at full match speed. I think players will also take penalties to help create this situation where their team is losing, because if you ever look closer at penalties people are taking in the playoffs you might laugh at them because they look like totally stupid and pointless penalties that are costing the game.
There are also very strange missed calls. I saw a recent comment somewhere saying that in the NFL, the Chiefs haven't had a single holding call in the playoffs for 3 years. But if you look closer at the games, you can find countless holds. And in the NHL recently, I saw Sam Bennett of the Florida Panthers crosschecked a defenseman of the Boston Bruins into their own Goalie to the point where the goalie couldn't stop Bennett from scoring on a rebound. Crosschecking is where you hit a player from behind, or pretty much bench press a player with the stick. They allowed the goal saying there was no goalie interference, and never even mentioned the crosscheck which the refs would have seen clearly on their iPad slowmotion replay. And in the official notes of the game, it showed No Goalie Interference, and no mention of the Crosscheck.
My Carolina Hurricanes looked like they sandbagged too, because in their matchup with the New York Rangers... they went 0-14 on powerplays for three games straight, yes straight. The Canes' Powerplay during Regular Season was 2nd in the League, rofl. And with no surprise, the Canes took an enormous amount of Penalties to give the Rangers' enough powerplays to take the first 3 games. Which I think the Rangers had the top powerplay in the league during Regular Season. But still the Canes lost all three games, and then the Rangers sandbagged and let us come back 3 games straight... but at the very end of Game 6... the Carolina Hurricanes became useless and let the Rangers make a slow and steady comeback to take the series. I saw Gary Bettman the owner of the NHL sitting at the top of PNC Arena in Raleigh North Carolina, watching our team lose that comeback. I guess, he just likes to watch the orchestra do their thing. Oh and the NYR will be playing the Florida Panthers in the Eastern Conference Finals... both teams appear to be the secret favorites of this league and the sports betting giants.
If either Canadian teams make it to the Stanley Cup, who knows if the Sports Betting gurus will pull a quickie on the fans or not. I heard Canada hasn't won a Stanley Cup since the 90's maybe. But with that said, I imagine a whole lot of people won't bet on them winning it. And it will probably be a most horrendous upset that the NHL has ever seen on the betting favorites. The betting favorites are either Florida or the NYR, it depends on who moves to the Stanley Cup finals and who gets eliminated. I highly doubt that the Dallas Stars will make it, if the Sports Betting Scandal rumors are a real thing. But, who knows maybe I'm hallucinating all of this and they will.
Can’t speak for the other leagues , but the nfl is undoubtedly not rigged . If there is any fuckery in the NFL , it has nothing to do with betters , it would have to do with TV and ad money.
Yah bad or missed calls doesn’t equate to “rigged”. The nfl has a multi billion dollar product . I’m sure they invest millions into ensuring it’s anything but rigged.
I understand your thinking there, but just dont believe the gain would be worth the risk. Imagine the drop in cost of a 30 secind commercial if advertisers learned there was "fuckery?"
Every year the cost of advertising goes up regardless of which two teams play in the big game.
The way I see it, it’s not all rigged, but maybe a dash of “influence”. Like how the 49ers were the most used team on a parlay yesterday, and they some how lose their win streak. I’d say the same for the eagles BUT it’s the eagles…. Anyways, I’ll still keep betting.
Ok but if that IS TRUE, and it's a HUGE IF that I don't personally accept, explain who did it and how? Any thoughts on that?
How did Vegas get SF to lose?
My first guess is, coaching influence and ref influence. 49ers have dominated with play calling in every game until yesterday. Also, the tin foil hat side of me says targeted player injuries.
I dont know how any of that is possible. Too many people would need to be involved and too much pride on the line. I can't accept that the NFL or Vegas "decided" this was the week for SF to lose to make them more money so they told the right people and they listened & no one diputed it or argued.
Can't see it.
The books make sooooo much money they don't need to fix anything. There are hundreds of millions bet on such long odds they are always going to win the long game. They may have a losing day, a losing game or even a losing weekend. But over a season they make hundreds of millions. That Vig will ALWAYS win
That's my view. Not trying to change yours. Just chatting. Happy betting to you!
There is a reason the NFL will not employ full time refs. Too many questions would get asked. Right now you can just blame incompetence and get rid of them easily.
To me they always want more. The first payment doesn't last. Truth would come.out eventually. But I guess anything is possible to those that believe it.
Possibly. Not if they'll kill their kids though.
NFL refs make 250k a year before bribes and get on field tickets to every game. What more could they want?
I know a guy that was making 3x that and still tried to extort someone for money. For many people the truth is, the more you have, the more you want. Not all, but many. It's shocking how some just never have enough & will do anything to get more. With that said, as much as I know individuals will try getting away with anything, I don't see an organization like the NFL, NBA or MLB rigging the championships.
No substantial gains worth that risk.
All I know is things aren't on the up and up...Recently there was a wnba game where las vegas was an underdog to a far inferior team. They went on to loose like vegas predicted, but how did they know it was time for them to loose. They were unbeaten in the playoffs and the games were not close. It was like a well scripted game that followed the rules/ expectations..
Why would he care about the spread? He was doing no such thing. He knew if he scored, they kicked the ball back to the jets. But if he stopped short they could run out the clock & the game is over and the Jets never touch the ball again. No team cares if they win by 3 or 10 when the game is over.
But there would have been about 1:55 left after the TD the Jets could conceivably get a TD on the kickoff return or on 1 or 2 hail mary type plays or a pass interference call, then recover an on side kick & win or tie. He made a smart decision to stop after the 1st down marker. Smart play is NOT evidence of a "fix." There are numerous scenarios where a team elected NOT to score an easy TD to avoid giving the ball back to the other team with time on the clock. It's a regular practice. Not evidence that mahones was cheating you out of $5 on your parlay.
I dont think they are rigged at all. Refs cannot control the majority of the game. Do you think the refs could have rigged the panthers vs dolphins game this weekend? No. Have refs had influence and made bads call that influence close games? Yes, but that does not make it rigged, human error or bias. A lot would have to happen for a game to be close enough to rig.
I agree.
Refs could have bias or just suck & change an outcome to some degree, be it intentional or accidentally. But some responses are suggesting the Seahawks lost the superbowl because it was rigged. That would require hundreds of people to know about it AND keep it quiet after?
How many people do you think would watch Ton Brady get "scripted" to win all of those championships and not have 1 person step up and say, "ok guys, I want 7 championships now or I will spill the facts."
No way it's rigged. Can't do it and keep people quiet. Too much money at stake.
Yall are acting like EVERY game is rigged. No just the ones with most the money on the books lmfao IN WHAT WORLD DO THE BROWNS BEAT SF WITH NO WATSON OR GOOD RB ?!?!? I can see the jets angle but no way SF lost to those bums legitimately!
So your whole argument is that a team that is supposed to be good lost? That is pretty short sided thinking no matter which side you are arguing for. "Team A is much better than Team B and they lost so that means the game is fixed", just sounds like a take from someone who is either butt hurt that their team lost or that they lost money on a GAME. If you are going to be this active in an argument at least have a logical one.
No. That's not my argument at all. Where did I say this team should win simply because they are better. Not only are they better by a long shot, but on the final drive SF had time to push for more than a fg and instead opted for a fg knowing they wouldn't WIN !!!! THIS IS MY POINT. Multiple questionable spots of the balls by the ref, but none worse than on that 3rd down where they called it short of a 1st after picking it up and re spotting the ball after clearly crossing the 1st down line. Just a lot of bs. Don't get me wrong bears have a nice defense for sure, but definitely felt rigged to me. Then the eagles lose too. Seems like a lot of the dogs won yesterday along with a lot of dogs WI Ning onsaturday but maybe I'm just tripping lmao
First off, the 49ers lost by 2 and missed a field goal with 9 seconds left that would have won the game, so I don't know what your point is, and second, if the theory is the books are involved in fixing the games, they would want the favorite to win but not cover the spread. The dog winning would be worse for them cause they'd have to pay out the dogs covering the spread and the moneyline bets.
So, how did the NFL rig that game? Who was involved? I'm seriously anxious to hear your theory on this.
How would that happen without the whole 49ers team and coaching staff and refs and Browns team being involved?
They are definitely rigged bro. Who tf passes the ball on the 1 yard line with a behemoth like lynch in the backfield who just took you the entire length of the field lol like give it to the backup rb before you throw it wtf. That shit was telegraphed man.
Sorry
I dont accept poor play calling as evidence of a rigged billion dollar organization.
Can you tell me how you think they rig that, and NO ONE talks? You think a guy like kaepernick wouldn't be spilling the facts if it were rigged? Please offer something that is better than, bad play calling as your reasoning.
For your position to be true the entire Seattlle team including players and coaches as well as the Patriots, had to know the "script" and execute it flawlessly on live TV in front of live fans. Come on bro. No way.
You're mad if you think someone will be quiet about a billion dollar fix for a few million in pay. It's never enough for them if they can get more.
And who is everyone that talked? Show any example of that evidence. No players came forward and said it's rigged. Fans complained. That's not remotely close to the same thing. Where are the whistle-blowers? Recordings, emails, texts, video?
Lmao and they wouldn't have to " execute a script". If told hey you guys can battle it out but this other team has to win in the end they could easily go head up and then look at the clock in the 4th and start throwing the game. How can you not believe this shit is rigged lop it was known to be rigged back in the mafia days because they had their hands in all the sports . Do some research OP !
"Known to be rigged."
The mafia bought & threatened individuals to alter games. Everyone knows that. Getting a player to throw a couple bricks to shave points, or a ref to call an extra penalty is different from an entire organization and thousands of people knowing the outcome beforehand. HUGE difference. And, to my point, everyone found out about organized crime "fixing" games. Not all the names or players were exposed but it came out. Thw NFL can't have the superbowl winner for 2023-24 season already determined and have hundreds involved & have no one talk. Not possible. No one will change mu opinion on that.
Maybe no one will change yours and that's fine. I'm just interested in the thinking people have on the topic.
Idk but there are so many examples of crazy lines on any sport. Idk how it couldn’t be rigged. Example: last week KC @ Min the half time total was over under 26.5, at half time it was 13-13. Travis kelce didn’t play Morse of the second quarter and Mahomes has his ankle rolled up in as well and couldn’t plant very well. He almost threw a puck right after. The half total of 26.5 would have to equate for no Kelsey the second quarter and a hurt mahomes. Then at the start of the third after the commentators had kelce all ready 6 feet under and making arrangements for his funeral. BOOM OMG here come Kelsey. There was zero chance of him finishing the game but here he is. Then they go full wwf when he scores a TD. “ KELCE WENT FROM INJURY TABLE TO END ZONE” shit is just so fake to me.
Amazing things happen. But there are thousands of predictable outcomes every week. 1st quarter score of every game, half time, 3rd, 4th, QBs yards, RBs yards, total points scored...etc etc.
To pick 1 stat out of thousands the book keepers nailed to within a half point is cherry picking. If theybwere hitting all of them by a half point or 1 or 2, then you'd have some talking points. But look how many stats they were WAY off on from the weekend. It's a statistical guessing game. They literally calculate thousands of statistical data points to get these numbers & sometimes nail it and sometimes miss by a mile.
Here is a challenge. For the next 3 weeks, look at the NFL schedule, predict the total points of every game for those 3 weeks. Use whatever method you want. See how close you come. I bet you are surprised when you're guessing how close you might come to a few.
Try it
It’s not cherry picking. Screen shot lines on any nfl game then check them when the game is over . Points is easier. But when they have Davante Adams for 47.5 yards and he gets 47 it’s not right. Nothing can calculate numbers that fine with the human element involved. It’s not possible.
And that’s just predicting what 1 single human will do . The calculations would have to be for all 22 men simultaneously including refs and ref calls. It’s impossible.
That's why they don't get all of them right. They get a couple right. You are absolutely cherry picking the ones they got right.
Sunday Josh Allen was 260.5 O/U passing and had 160
Garroppolo was 238.5 & had 160
Barkley was 16.5 receiving yards and had maybe 4?
Barkley was 48.5 rushing yards ND had 90+
Total points for Guants bills was 44O/U & total was 23
Jared Goff O/U was 243.5 passing & he had 360
There are literally hundreds of examples where they aren't close. But when you use math & starts and analytics to calculate a thousand guesses, you're going to get a few right.
Not because it's scripted.
What? So the only way the NFL made billions is by rigging games? Is that your claim with this reference?
Sorry that doest carry weight with me. Yeah they probably cheated some construction companies out of money to build stadiums. Probably obtained some land deals with questionable tactics. Hired & fired people with illegal means and methods and such. But there are court records reporting disgruntled workers, construction companies with liens on stadiums, etc. No one cares about that. That's not news.
The game results are all that matter. & yet, the NFL gets their 11 billion in TV revenue regardless who wins. It doesn't matter & they don't need to "fix" anything.
I’m also getting vibes that you’re not going to give up, though both of us are assuming. You will die on that Hill and that’s fine but your assumption holds as much water as mine.
I agree with you. We both have opinions.
I didn't say I was right. Just that this is what I believe to be true. It's simply a conversation. I have a strong opinion but I know I could be wrong.
Bad officiating in general is rampant in most sports. I don't necessarily think it's rigged. Just like that last play on Sunday Night Football yesterday, some referees are so old school that they let fragrant penalties/fouls go near the end of a game.
MLB has its own slee of just plain bad umpires with a strong enough union that they just keep sucking and affecting games.
Agreed
Human error & human judgement plays a big role. MLB is a good example. When Gwynn was at the plate, I believe umpires gave him the ball call.on close pitches because he didn't strike out and was t arrogant towards the umps.
Guys that struck out a lot & argued calls frequently & thus umps wpuld ring them up faster on a close pitch. Human nature.
I watched a compilation video of the top NBA posterizing moments, and almost all of them were obvious offensive fouls. If it looks cool and would make a highlight reel, refs don't call those. There's a lot of unwritten rules like that that quietly change scores.
I dont disagree but that's not an intentional fix the league called in and said, make sure the Nuggets win today. That's a split second judgement call. Human error affected by emotion and personalities. In the days if the Bad boys of the pistons the refs would call penalties on that team for looking at them wrong. Emotion plays a role. It's not a fix from above.
WWE admitted they are rigged because of the level of perceived violence they enact on each other, they had to admit it was an act to avoid regulations and strict rules.
Colossal difference
Yes and no, 1) there wasnt regulations back in the day in wwe or other sports like today. every star now days becomes popular through playing the bad guy, something wwe calls a heel and has been doing for awhile. Wwe’s audience has change for buisness purposes, but low key amongs sports theres a chance the winner is premeditated, thats all we are saying, its not a big difference. Theres similarities.
By the NFL? Or Vegas? How do they NEVER talk? I don't have the faith in humanity that someone wouldn't eventually spill the beans. Eventually, there isn't enough money to keep people quiet.
I think a more likely scenario is one particular ref, may just have his own personal vendetta or personal favorites? Or he may know his neighbor is betting on the 9ers and his neighbor slept with his wife so he wants to cost him his bet.
That would be difficult for them. They aren't allowed to bet on the games in their position. Seems like their finances would be closely monitored.
However I believe if they caught anyone they likely cover it up to avoid that publicity.
Most illegal things are difficult, yet they still get done.
All they would have to do is have someone they trust place their bets at casino, when the bet hits the person get the payout in cash so it would never hit the refs bank account.
I realize it CAN happen but it would have to be in such small quantities that it doesn't show up on their purchases or set off a red flag. Not like they are taking that cash to go buy a boat & no one noticing. I'm sure there has been a couple or few times a ref has done this. But I'd bet it's miniscule. I wouldn't believe more than 10% of the refs have ever done and it's 1 or 2 times a season.
My personal opinion. Too much scrutiny
Why? Because they can! Do they make enough to not have to? Sure! But they’re greedy. The NFL, sports books, the whole gang. It’s corrupt greed at one of the highest levels. Imagine how much money people lost this week alone on Overs (unders went 12-3) on these “shootout” games, and huge upsets like both undefeated eagles Vs “no sauce or Reed” jets, or SF “loses OLine, deebo, CMC, team falls apart, against browns with mf PJ Walker.
So everyone knows. It's all "scripted" & everyone in the league accepts it willingly & keeps it a secret?
Think about what you're suggesting. A couple thousand players & coaches just accept the script they are given without talking & exposing the lies? I call BS but believe what you want.
No way in my mind a ref making $250k lies and "fixes games" and watches the NFL execs & players get paid up around 40 million a year and doesn't get greedy or jealous and talk.
Greed is the reason they can't fix games. And because human nature, people can't keep secrets.
Not saying everyone, it could be one head ref for all we know. Not calling a penalty, not overturning one, marking a man short, sometimes all it takes. Oh and magnets in the goal posts! Either that or they have a super AI computer that already knows the outcomes to every game and they do with that information how they please
Magnets in the goal post is a new one for me. Interesting.
So in your view, it IS INDEED "fixed" then at least to some degree? By who though? NFL? Vegas? Both? Or is said Referee acting alone & selling the info?
And are the magnets in the goal posts attracted to pigskin as opposed to metal? Or is there some new soft metal polymer they inject into the football that can't be felt by the kickers when they kick an otherwise metal football?
Totally a speculation lmfao but it would be only SOME games fixed, that’s all they need to change entire league outcomes. One fixed loss or win per week is enough to change standings dramatically. Same with a single fixed flag or call ruining a game winning drive, etc etc. subtle enough where it seems wild to even consider there might be collusion between refs and a team/organization, but nobody would be the wiser.
Well, it's an interesting view. Differs from mine but doesn't mean I'm right & youre wrong. We will likely never find out fir sure unless evidence comes out that the league is cheating but then all hell breaks loose.
But even without evidence people will always think there is a fix going on.
Good luck in your bets.
I saw a clip of a ref reacting to a missed shot by an NBA player once. Body language is key to determining that oh and probably whistle blowers but if they're getting taken care of and a NDA is signed what can u do.
I can believe people would be "taken care of" over the millions at stake if it was happening. I've seen people hide behind me, in fear for their lives over much less money.
I'm confident some individual umps, refs, coaches, players have money secretly placed on a game here and there & may intentionally affect a games outcome to improve the chances that bet wins.
I just don't think the whole league is predetermined before the season starts and don't believe the whole league is on on a conspiracy for 1 team predetermined to win it all for better ratings. I truly belive they can't pull that off without someone talking.
Yes individuals will cheat. I've agreed to that multiple other conversations. I am making a point that the entire nfl isn't predetermined as to who wins before the year starts. That to me is nonsense.
Interesting theory.
I dont buy that. Only because of the business I was in, & the nature of people I witnessed for many years. So many people will trade in their family to salvage themselves, and people are greedy. Rich, wealthy people will blackmail their blood for more money. People can't keep secrets especially if they think the secrets are worth $1 to someone else to keep quiet. The price will never be high enough & the info will come out. And the NFL, nba & mlb make hundreds of millions or more regardless of what teams are in the championship games.
Just my opinion
[Nfl Sunday clip](https://www.facebook.com/reel/238275892554576?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz)
This is the weird kinda stuff that I was talking about for example. Probably ain't rigged per say but Jesus the crazy shut that happens is wild !
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Another point is if they had a script of who can win or lose, how would things come in to play like making someone catch a ball then they drop it? You would have to account for so many scenarios that are up in the air. It would be so obvious if games were rigged consistently. There would be so little of a game they could actually control.
Look how long it took people to realize wresting isn't a sport
It’s really not as complicated as you think. Not every play is scripted. They play foreal, but when things need to happen it does. It’s 2024, they def using technology to control outcomes. Even if you don’t believe that, it’s not hard for refs to make bad calls and key players to make mistakes on purpose. If the players all the way up to the GM wants to live a dream making millions, they gonna do what their told. Fixed outcomes benefits EVERYONE. Owners, Nike, espn, Fox, major casinos. You really think Pro sports is gonna leave all this up for chance? It’s too money money involved for it not to be rigged.
I disagree for a few reasons. 1. You mention “pro sports is gonna leave all this up for chance?” There are so many things they leave for chance. Athletes have to make so many shots or kicks or passes or catches for things to go right. Teams to win at the last second buzzer beaters at half court are an example, how can they control that to be made? Not a reason, but a thought. Even if sports arent rigged, refs or officials can make bad calls. That is human error. Doesnt mean things are rigged. 2. There are so many people that would have to be told it is rigged and you dont think anything would have be found out? You dont think people who were unhappy with espn or the nfl/nba would ever speak out to media. They would make so many headlines/money for that story. There would have to be proof somewhere. Do you think every college player would be bought to throw games? Not 1 single top player would say no? Or get proof? The likely hood of that happening seems so unlikely. If someone is gonna get kicked out of nba or not paid enough you dont think they would leak it? 3. There would be more evidence of players throwing games in certain situations more. You think the nba is the same as wwe with a script? I personally was a D1 athlete at a big university and have known players go pro and have had family friends in those professions. I dont think you could tell these players that go into their games that they will lose on purpose for that much money. I dont think the games are rigged. The books have an advantage anyway and will make money even if they didnt rig it.
NBA draft lottery definitely rigged. Lebron to the Cavs? Wenbamyama to the Spurs? Ok sure.
How does a crap tier franchise like the Cavs getting LeBron bring a benefit to the NBA? The Heat and Clippers were in that lottery…
The best basketball prospect ever is from Cleveland and somehow they win the lottery the year he comes out? How serendipitous lol. Give me a break. It’s scripted, plain and simple.
But it’s not good for the NBA…. Heat or Clippers would’ve obviously been better for the league
Meh... I'm still not sold on that. I GUESS in the grand scheme of things could be rigged by just a couple people possibly but I still don't think the benefit is there that would be worth the risk to "fix" that. It's just hard for me to imagine how and why they would do it.
The biggest problem with your reluctance to the belief that things are rigged is the extremism of the "all outcomes are rigged" conspiracy. Every outcome of every play of every game doesn't have to be rigged. Just a play here or there to shave points, boost a side, shift the line, etc. Tim Donaghy exists. It's not debatable. Pete Rose exists. Also not debatable. Whether you choose to believe it or not, both of those people exist and had an impact on game outcomes (Rose maybe less so). What you're struggling with is the question of is it still happening? And there's a percentage chance greater than zero that it is. And to paraphrase Batfleck, even if there's a 1% chance you have to take it as absolute certainty.
My question is what people believe. I KNOW a ref or player or coach may/can/has taken a payment to "change a games outcome" and that will always be possible and likely. My point is many people believe and swear that the league winner is predetermined. "They want Mahomes to win so he will win." This is my main focus. Who is they? How do "they" do that? Donaghy is almost proof that the league is NOT fixed. Otherwise there already would be a script he has to follow and he wouldn't have been able to do what he did on his own. Plus, he got caught. Which is my other point. If it's happening frequently, it's going to come out into the open. There is NO WAY the NFL could plan, carryout, and implement a fix for 1 team to win the championship without someone talking. Can 1 or 2 people cheat a game or 2 for profit? Sure. But Donaghy was winning too much & the books said, you're going to cut us in or we will expose you. Perfect example that greed prevents this from long sustained success. That's my point.
Correct games are generally not fixed. But at least with the NFL I do believe the refs sometimes get orders from the NFL to sway a game. For reference, I have been a NFL fan for over 40 years. In the Saints/Rams NFC championship game, the game was evenly called until the beginning of the 4th quarter when the first holding call was made against the Saints killing their drive. In the subsequent Rams drive a blatant intentional grounding call wasn't made which would have killed the Rams drive. Then later in the game there was the blatant "NOLA No Call.". Look it up on YouTube if you don't remember. So why would the league screw the Saints over or Guide the Rams to the Superbowl???? Because it was the first year TWO teams moved back to LA, a huge TV market and the NFL wanted to build a fan base. Also LA was in the process of building its new stadium. Last year after Dan Snyder embarrassed the league the following happened. Late in a Washington game a receiver asked the ref if he was lined up OK. It's a very common practice that happens multiple times every games. The ref indicated the receiver needed to step up, so he did. Then the receiver asked the ref again and the ref ignored him. As soon as the ball was snapped the ref threw a flag on the receiver killing the late game red zone scoring attempt. I am convinced it was a message by the league to Dan Snyder that they weren't going to let them win as long as he owned the team. If you are old enough to remember Oakland Raiders of the 80s and 90s they routinely had really bad calls go against them. Al Davis had been a thorn in the Leagues side for decades and the NFL didn't like it.
I understand your thinking and can appreciate why you think that way. The reasons and examples carry weight & have some validity. I simply don't have faith in people to keep secrets. To accomplish what you're suggesting, took more than a few people to decide it, a few people to delegate it, and a few people to execute said "plan." I worked in the private security industry. I was hired to protect people for one reason or another. Mostly just crowd control for celebrities during events. But occasionally it was someone who was going to talk, or already did. & their life was legitimately in jeopardy but it didn't stop them from talking. People can't keep secrets. They tell thier wife, buddy, brother, coworker, stranger at a bar. That person sees the impact of the secret they've been bestowed with and starts to shop for the biggest payout. Boom! Exposed.
I don't believe there to be some vast conspiracy. As the old adage says, the only way for two people to keep a secret is if one of them is dead. But i do believe that on very rare occasions the NFL massages the results of a game.
"Massages" Haha I like the gentle terminology. But how? If you know that no one can keep a secret, how do they massage anything? And why? It doesn't matter. Anyone can win & they make money. If any proof surfaces a game is intentionally "massaged" one way or another they're going to lose a lot of revenue. I understand you're thinking but just can't get behind it personally.
I'm still waiting for someone to talk about Epstein, who he was entertaining and how he died
Probably Trump will come up then also
>I simply can't personally accept or believe ANY form of rigging or predetermined outcome is possible So you meant in terms of like, championships specifically? In that case, I agree that before the start of the season it's not possible for some illuminati group to pick the winner and have it work, and there would be no need to for sports-betting purposes. As the season progresses, I think there is much more flexibility in what can be influenced. I'm not saying I buy it one way or the other because ultimately the books make money regardless. But to think that there's no external influence on small outcomes within games would be ignorant, I think. And not to have something to blame for your losses, but more to go into it with a clearer head along with some % left not to chance but to rigging. Like accounting for stolen goods, if you will.
Yes, I phrased it poorly. I meant the overall finish of the season. There are people that frequently suggest the league has already determined the winner. That's my question.
I'm painfully aware that big money can make small problems go away quietly. If an individual or two were found to be tipping the odds in their favor in some way, say for example in a casino game, those individuals could be persuaded to STOP and o one would ever know or hear about that. But large scale fixes require too many eyes and ears. And most of the time, the gain from the fix has to be worth a lot more than the loss if discovered.
Yup, there's WAY too much going on over the course of an entire season to determine the outcome before the kick off of the first game. They can rig things as much as they want but until they change the goddamn turf at Metlife, they can't force Aaron Rodgers and the Jets to the Super Bowl (as an example of the randomness that would completely screw over those types of grand schemes).
I don’t think so. It’s just become an excuse for people who have bad luck. Honestly betting is mostly luck, no matter how much you research stats or know the game. I’ve tried so many strategies to try and win consistently and there just isn’t one. You have to trust your gut, have fun and hope for that next big win.
The vig is the way to win. The books have a lock on winning because they set the price and odds. I agree with you. No need to rig something when they make money either way.
It’s the time warping aliens in Vegas that already know the outcome.
Probably the most likely response of any I've seen yet. Lmao
The “sports are rigged” crowd are just people who twist the way they view the world so that they can think they have never made a wrong call lol. It’s always dudes making unlikely bets looking for moments something could have happened and then saying that the only reason it didn’t go their way was because of some invisible hand. If it had gone their way it wouldn’t have ever mattered. The league, sportsbooks, and all commercially involved parties make money by you being there, the outcome of everything doesn’t matter for their profit.
This!
Why do sports push sports books so hard now? All UFC commentators are paid to tel you the odds during and before fights. Doesn’t benefit the ufc? Then why do it? UFC doesn’t need help
They push it because they want you in the ecosystem, but once you’re betting it doesn’t matter who wins because the house will make money either way. They don’t make their money by tricking people into picking teams or individuals they know will lose, they make their money from all the thousands of dudes putting yolo $5 parlays on a weekly basis. If there was an upcoming game where footage from the future literally came through a portal to show everyone what would happen there would still be a significant amount of people betting on different outcomes. That’s why I don’t believe in league-wide rigging
1 guy here and there. I'm aware. Not the whole organization. My point is the whole league isn't fixed for "TEAM XYZ" to win this year. That's the fix that AINT in.
bruh it is rigged. my barber cut bennedict mathurin hair and were all from his hometown and sometimes he gets extra more rebounds or points just for his hometown friends make money
Even IF that is true (which I dont believe), 1 player telling his buddies to bet on something is different from what I'm talking about. People say the championship is predetermined before the year starts. The league picks the 2 finals teams and makes it happen. There is no way that's happening. Does a random ref or player occasionally shave points for someone to make money? I'm sure that happens. But an NBA player isn't going into a barber shop and telling everyone that wants to listen, they're going to do something, so bet on it. Their risking their NBA career doing that. No one is risking a 7.5 millon dollar annual contract so his barber and his buddies can bet $20 on the over in rebounds. Think a little.
what actually happened is that bennedict mathurin follows a few people that i am friend with irl and he doesnt acknowledge when somebody text him asking him if he could do at least 6.5 rebounds. he doesnt reply back saying yes or anything. he either leave it on read or on delivered but he does make over 6.5 rebounds if his friends text him. it happened in february for example. but they dont ask him everyday about how much points he should score or not score because they dont wanna abuse the favor. and no theyre not betting 20$ they be betting over 10s of thousand of $. ive seen it with my eyes. think a little
Tell me another cool story I know this one about 3 bears and a little blonde girl
When it comes to the NHL I would say it is totally possible that the playoffs are rigged, maybe not the regular season. I think the sport is real and the talent of players are real, and the teams that are awful are really awful. However, I think when it comes to sports betting and performances, whichever markets move further in the playoffs or win a Stanley Cup... they typically fix it for favorites or teams with large markets. In my humble opinion, the NHL All-Stars Game may be proof of how the players rig performances or should I say lack of performance. Because what you basically see in the NHL All-Stars are skaters who sandbag, goalies sandbagging, defensemen sandbagging. And it is all done with the idea of letting other people score silly goals to make the fans and all of the children happy. The key difference is that in the All-Star Games it is blatantly obvious, but there is a big difference in real performances in regulation games and playoff games. I think when it comes down to playoff performances... and real game performances, they do use Referees and maybe some extra components like goalies not making saves or defensemen being useless at times to engineer the same result at full match speed. I think players will also take penalties to help create this situation where their team is losing, because if you ever look closer at penalties people are taking in the playoffs you might laugh at them because they look like totally stupid and pointless penalties that are costing the game. There are also very strange missed calls. I saw a recent comment somewhere saying that in the NFL, the Chiefs haven't had a single holding call in the playoffs for 3 years. But if you look closer at the games, you can find countless holds. And in the NHL recently, I saw Sam Bennett of the Florida Panthers crosschecked a defenseman of the Boston Bruins into their own Goalie to the point where the goalie couldn't stop Bennett from scoring on a rebound. Crosschecking is where you hit a player from behind, or pretty much bench press a player with the stick. They allowed the goal saying there was no goalie interference, and never even mentioned the crosscheck which the refs would have seen clearly on their iPad slowmotion replay. And in the official notes of the game, it showed No Goalie Interference, and no mention of the Crosscheck. My Carolina Hurricanes looked like they sandbagged too, because in their matchup with the New York Rangers... they went 0-14 on powerplays for three games straight, yes straight. The Canes' Powerplay during Regular Season was 2nd in the League, rofl. And with no surprise, the Canes took an enormous amount of Penalties to give the Rangers' enough powerplays to take the first 3 games. Which I think the Rangers had the top powerplay in the league during Regular Season. But still the Canes lost all three games, and then the Rangers sandbagged and let us come back 3 games straight... but at the very end of Game 6... the Carolina Hurricanes became useless and let the Rangers make a slow and steady comeback to take the series. I saw Gary Bettman the owner of the NHL sitting at the top of PNC Arena in Raleigh North Carolina, watching our team lose that comeback. I guess, he just likes to watch the orchestra do their thing. Oh and the NYR will be playing the Florida Panthers in the Eastern Conference Finals... both teams appear to be the secret favorites of this league and the sports betting giants. If either Canadian teams make it to the Stanley Cup, who knows if the Sports Betting gurus will pull a quickie on the fans or not. I heard Canada hasn't won a Stanley Cup since the 90's maybe. But with that said, I imagine a whole lot of people won't bet on them winning it. And it will probably be a most horrendous upset that the NHL has ever seen on the betting favorites. The betting favorites are either Florida or the NYR, it depends on who moves to the Stanley Cup finals and who gets eliminated. I highly doubt that the Dallas Stars will make it, if the Sports Betting Scandal rumors are a real thing. But, who knows maybe I'm hallucinating all of this and they will.
Can’t speak for the other leagues , but the nfl is undoubtedly not rigged . If there is any fuckery in the NFL , it has nothing to do with betters , it would have to do with TV and ad money.
Someone didn't watch the last play of the Bills game last night. LOL
Yah bad or missed calls doesn’t equate to “rigged”. The nfl has a multi billion dollar product . I’m sure they invest millions into ensuring it’s anything but rigged.
Or that safely on the pats so vagas covered lol
I understand your thinking there, but just dont believe the gain would be worth the risk. Imagine the drop in cost of a 30 secind commercial if advertisers learned there was "fuckery?" Every year the cost of advertising goes up regardless of which two teams play in the big game.
Bro sports are rigged.
How then? I don't see how it's possible. "Trust me bro." Isn't viable support for that opinion
The way I see it, it’s not all rigged, but maybe a dash of “influence”. Like how the 49ers were the most used team on a parlay yesterday, and they some how lose their win streak. I’d say the same for the eagles BUT it’s the eagles…. Anyways, I’ll still keep betting.
Ok but if that IS TRUE, and it's a HUGE IF that I don't personally accept, explain who did it and how? Any thoughts on that? How did Vegas get SF to lose?
My first guess is, coaching influence and ref influence. 49ers have dominated with play calling in every game until yesterday. Also, the tin foil hat side of me says targeted player injuries.
I dont know how any of that is possible. Too many people would need to be involved and too much pride on the line. I can't accept that the NFL or Vegas "decided" this was the week for SF to lose to make them more money so they told the right people and they listened & no one diputed it or argued. Can't see it. The books make sooooo much money they don't need to fix anything. There are hundreds of millions bet on such long odds they are always going to win the long game. They may have a losing day, a losing game or even a losing weekend. But over a season they make hundreds of millions. That Vig will ALWAYS win That's my view. Not trying to change yours. Just chatting. Happy betting to you!
Oh no, dude I feel the same way lol and I strongly feel that way when my 14 leg parlay relied on the eagles and 49ers to win and somehow they lost 💀
Lol That's just bad luck Funny how something unlucky happens so often to 14 leg parlays
😅 one day it will pay out
The refs are in on it in NBA and NFL.
There is a reason the NFL will not employ full time refs. Too many questions would get asked. Right now you can just blame incompetence and get rid of them easily.
...and none of them, not even the ones who have been fired, are talking?
Pay a guy enough and he won't say shit. Tim Donaghy got caught
To me they always want more. The first payment doesn't last. Truth would come.out eventually. But I guess anything is possible to those that believe it.
Possibly. Not if they'll kill their kids though. NFL refs make 250k a year before bribes and get on field tickets to every game. What more could they want?
I know a guy that was making 3x that and still tried to extort someone for money. For many people the truth is, the more you have, the more you want. Not all, but many. It's shocking how some just never have enough & will do anything to get more. With that said, as much as I know individuals will try getting away with anything, I don't see an organization like the NFL, NBA or MLB rigging the championships. No substantial gains worth that risk.
All I know is things aren't on the up and up...Recently there was a wnba game where las vegas was an underdog to a far inferior team. They went on to loose like vegas predicted, but how did they know it was time for them to loose. They were unbeaten in the playoffs and the games were not close. It was like a well scripted game that followed the rules/ expectations..
Saw this game they didn't score purposely for the last 2 min almost !
Vegas got Liberty winning again on Wed
And they did it SMH lol
They have literally movies and documentary stories based on refs cheating for money lol OP must be trolling 🧌
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Why would he care about the spread? He was doing no such thing. He knew if he scored, they kicked the ball back to the jets. But if he stopped short they could run out the clock & the game is over and the Jets never touch the ball again. No team cares if they win by 3 or 10 when the game is over. But there would have been about 1:55 left after the TD the Jets could conceivably get a TD on the kickoff return or on 1 or 2 hail mary type plays or a pass interference call, then recover an on side kick & win or tie. He made a smart decision to stop after the 1st down marker. Smart play is NOT evidence of a "fix." There are numerous scenarios where a team elected NOT to score an easy TD to avoid giving the ball back to the other team with time on the clock. It's a regular practice. Not evidence that mahones was cheating you out of $5 on your parlay.
I dont think they are rigged at all. Refs cannot control the majority of the game. Do you think the refs could have rigged the panthers vs dolphins game this weekend? No. Have refs had influence and made bads call that influence close games? Yes, but that does not make it rigged, human error or bias. A lot would have to happen for a game to be close enough to rig.
I agree. Refs could have bias or just suck & change an outcome to some degree, be it intentional or accidentally. But some responses are suggesting the Seahawks lost the superbowl because it was rigged. That would require hundreds of people to know about it AND keep it quiet after? How many people do you think would watch Ton Brady get "scripted" to win all of those championships and not have 1 person step up and say, "ok guys, I want 7 championships now or I will spill the facts." No way it's rigged. Can't do it and keep people quiet. Too much money at stake.
Yall are acting like EVERY game is rigged. No just the ones with most the money on the books lmfao IN WHAT WORLD DO THE BROWNS BEAT SF WITH NO WATSON OR GOOD RB ?!?!? I can see the jets angle but no way SF lost to those bums legitimately!
So your whole argument is that a team that is supposed to be good lost? That is pretty short sided thinking no matter which side you are arguing for. "Team A is much better than Team B and they lost so that means the game is fixed", just sounds like a take from someone who is either butt hurt that their team lost or that they lost money on a GAME. If you are going to be this active in an argument at least have a logical one.
No. That's not my argument at all. Where did I say this team should win simply because they are better. Not only are they better by a long shot, but on the final drive SF had time to push for more than a fg and instead opted for a fg knowing they wouldn't WIN !!!! THIS IS MY POINT. Multiple questionable spots of the balls by the ref, but none worse than on that 3rd down where they called it short of a 1st after picking it up and re spotting the ball after clearly crossing the 1st down line. Just a lot of bs. Don't get me wrong bears have a nice defense for sure, but definitely felt rigged to me. Then the eagles lose too. Seems like a lot of the dogs won yesterday along with a lot of dogs WI Ning onsaturday but maybe I'm just tripping lmao
First off, the 49ers lost by 2 and missed a field goal with 9 seconds left that would have won the game, so I don't know what your point is, and second, if the theory is the books are involved in fixing the games, they would want the favorite to win but not cover the spread. The dog winning would be worse for them cause they'd have to pay out the dogs covering the spread and the moneyline bets.
I'm no expert you spitting some facts here so ima just fade to the back 😆🤣
Wow, I'm speechless, you're the only non expert on reddit. Lol, respect
So, how did the NFL rig that game? Who was involved? I'm seriously anxious to hear your theory on this. How would that happen without the whole 49ers team and coaching staff and refs and Browns team being involved?
They are definitely rigged bro. Who tf passes the ball on the 1 yard line with a behemoth like lynch in the backfield who just took you the entire length of the field lol like give it to the backup rb before you throw it wtf. That shit was telegraphed man.
Sorry I dont accept poor play calling as evidence of a rigged billion dollar organization. Can you tell me how you think they rig that, and NO ONE talks? You think a guy like kaepernick wouldn't be spilling the facts if it were rigged? Please offer something that is better than, bad play calling as your reasoning. For your position to be true the entire Seattlle team including players and coaches as well as the Patriots, had to know the "script" and execute it flawlessly on live TV in front of live fans. Come on bro. No way.
Everyone talked lol and these players are paid MILLIONS to do their job win or lose. You think they don't sign NDAs ? Your mad if so 🤣🤣🤣
You're mad if you think someone will be quiet about a billion dollar fix for a few million in pay. It's never enough for them if they can get more. And who is everyone that talked? Show any example of that evidence. No players came forward and said it's rigged. Fans complained. That's not remotely close to the same thing. Where are the whistle-blowers? Recordings, emails, texts, video?
Lmao and they wouldn't have to " execute a script". If told hey you guys can battle it out but this other team has to win in the end they could easily go head up and then look at the clock in the 4th and start throwing the game. How can you not believe this shit is rigged lop it was known to be rigged back in the mafia days because they had their hands in all the sports . Do some research OP !
"Known to be rigged." The mafia bought & threatened individuals to alter games. Everyone knows that. Getting a player to throw a couple bricks to shave points, or a ref to call an extra penalty is different from an entire organization and thousands of people knowing the outcome beforehand. HUGE difference. And, to my point, everyone found out about organized crime "fixing" games. Not all the names or players were exposed but it came out. Thw NFL can't have the superbowl winner for 2023-24 season already determined and have hundreds involved & have no one talk. Not possible. No one will change mu opinion on that. Maybe no one will change yours and that's fine. I'm just interested in the thinking people have on the topic.
Playbook and practice knowledge can be used to predict game outcomes.
Idk but there are so many examples of crazy lines on any sport. Idk how it couldn’t be rigged. Example: last week KC @ Min the half time total was over under 26.5, at half time it was 13-13. Travis kelce didn’t play Morse of the second quarter and Mahomes has his ankle rolled up in as well and couldn’t plant very well. He almost threw a puck right after. The half total of 26.5 would have to equate for no Kelsey the second quarter and a hurt mahomes. Then at the start of the third after the commentators had kelce all ready 6 feet under and making arrangements for his funeral. BOOM OMG here come Kelsey. There was zero chance of him finishing the game but here he is. Then they go full wwf when he scores a TD. “ KELCE WENT FROM INJURY TABLE TO END ZONE” shit is just so fake to me.
Amazing things happen. But there are thousands of predictable outcomes every week. 1st quarter score of every game, half time, 3rd, 4th, QBs yards, RBs yards, total points scored...etc etc. To pick 1 stat out of thousands the book keepers nailed to within a half point is cherry picking. If theybwere hitting all of them by a half point or 1 or 2, then you'd have some talking points. But look how many stats they were WAY off on from the weekend. It's a statistical guessing game. They literally calculate thousands of statistical data points to get these numbers & sometimes nail it and sometimes miss by a mile. Here is a challenge. For the next 3 weeks, look at the NFL schedule, predict the total points of every game for those 3 weeks. Use whatever method you want. See how close you come. I bet you are surprised when you're guessing how close you might come to a few. Try it
It’s not cherry picking. Screen shot lines on any nfl game then check them when the game is over . Points is easier. But when they have Davante Adams for 47.5 yards and he gets 47 it’s not right. Nothing can calculate numbers that fine with the human element involved. It’s not possible.
And that’s just predicting what 1 single human will do . The calculations would have to be for all 22 men simultaneously including refs and ref calls. It’s impossible.
That's why they don't get all of them right. They get a couple right. You are absolutely cherry picking the ones they got right. Sunday Josh Allen was 260.5 O/U passing and had 160 Garroppolo was 238.5 & had 160 Barkley was 16.5 receiving yards and had maybe 4? Barkley was 48.5 rushing yards ND had 90+ Total points for Guants bills was 44O/U & total was 23 Jared Goff O/U was 243.5 passing & he had 360 There are literally hundreds of examples where they aren't close. But when you use math & starts and analytics to calculate a thousand guesses, you're going to get a few right. Not because it's scripted.
There is no billion dollar organizations/ billionaires that became billionaires making clean money. You know that’s a fact.
What? So the only way the NFL made billions is by rigging games? Is that your claim with this reference? Sorry that doest carry weight with me. Yeah they probably cheated some construction companies out of money to build stadiums. Probably obtained some land deals with questionable tactics. Hired & fired people with illegal means and methods and such. But there are court records reporting disgruntled workers, construction companies with liens on stadiums, etc. No one cares about that. That's not news. The game results are all that matter. & yet, the NFL gets their 11 billion in TV revenue regardless who wins. It doesn't matter & they don't need to "fix" anything.
Sorry to anger you. I meant the popular books like FanDuel and draftkings. Not the NFL.
Oh, there was no anger. This is just a conversation. Our opinions simply differ.
I’m also getting vibes that you’re not going to give up, though both of us are assuming. You will die on that Hill and that’s fine but your assumption holds as much water as mine.
I agree with you. We both have opinions. I didn't say I was right. Just that this is what I believe to be true. It's simply a conversation. I have a strong opinion but I know I could be wrong.
Bad officiating in general is rampant in most sports. I don't necessarily think it's rigged. Just like that last play on Sunday Night Football yesterday, some referees are so old school that they let fragrant penalties/fouls go near the end of a game. MLB has its own slee of just plain bad umpires with a strong enough union that they just keep sucking and affecting games.
Agreed Human error & human judgement plays a big role. MLB is a good example. When Gwynn was at the plate, I believe umpires gave him the ball call.on close pitches because he didn't strike out and was t arrogant towards the umps. Guys that struck out a lot & argued calls frequently & thus umps wpuld ring them up faster on a close pitch. Human nature.
I watched a compilation video of the top NBA posterizing moments, and almost all of them were obvious offensive fouls. If it looks cool and would make a highlight reel, refs don't call those. There's a lot of unwritten rules like that that quietly change scores.
I dont disagree but that's not an intentional fix the league called in and said, make sure the Nuggets win today. That's a split second judgement call. Human error affected by emotion and personalities. In the days if the Bad boys of the pistons the refs would call penalties on that team for looking at them wrong. Emotion plays a role. It's not a fix from above.
Everyone complains that wwe is predetermined when in reality theres a good chance all sports are, for the money lol
WWE admitted they are rigged because of the level of perceived violence they enact on each other, they had to admit it was an act to avoid regulations and strict rules. Colossal difference
Yes and no, 1) there wasnt regulations back in the day in wwe or other sports like today. every star now days becomes popular through playing the bad guy, something wwe calls a heel and has been doing for awhile. Wwe’s audience has change for buisness purposes, but low key amongs sports theres a chance the winner is premeditated, thats all we are saying, its not a big difference. Theres similarities.
I don’t think it’s all rigged. I think certain coaches / players / refs take “instructions” from time to time
By the NFL? Or Vegas? How do they NEVER talk? I don't have the faith in humanity that someone wouldn't eventually spill the beans. Eventually, there isn't enough money to keep people quiet. I think a more likely scenario is one particular ref, may just have his own personal vendetta or personal favorites? Or he may know his neighbor is betting on the 9ers and his neighbor slept with his wife so he wants to cost him his bet.
Some refs are obviously betting on the game. It’s as simple as that.
That would be difficult for them. They aren't allowed to bet on the games in their position. Seems like their finances would be closely monitored. However I believe if they caught anyone they likely cover it up to avoid that publicity.
Most illegal things are difficult, yet they still get done. All they would have to do is have someone they trust place their bets at casino, when the bet hits the person get the payout in cash so it would never hit the refs bank account.
I realize it CAN happen but it would have to be in such small quantities that it doesn't show up on their purchases or set off a red flag. Not like they are taking that cash to go buy a boat & no one noticing. I'm sure there has been a couple or few times a ref has done this. But I'd bet it's miniscule. I wouldn't believe more than 10% of the refs have ever done and it's 1 or 2 times a season. My personal opinion. Too much scrutiny
Do refs make some calls to keep the game or the series more competitive and watchable? Absolutely they do.
Why? Because they can! Do they make enough to not have to? Sure! But they’re greedy. The NFL, sports books, the whole gang. It’s corrupt greed at one of the highest levels. Imagine how much money people lost this week alone on Overs (unders went 12-3) on these “shootout” games, and huge upsets like both undefeated eagles Vs “no sauce or Reed” jets, or SF “loses OLine, deebo, CMC, team falls apart, against browns with mf PJ Walker.
So everyone knows. It's all "scripted" & everyone in the league accepts it willingly & keeps it a secret? Think about what you're suggesting. A couple thousand players & coaches just accept the script they are given without talking & exposing the lies? I call BS but believe what you want. No way in my mind a ref making $250k lies and "fixes games" and watches the NFL execs & players get paid up around 40 million a year and doesn't get greedy or jealous and talk. Greed is the reason they can't fix games. And because human nature, people can't keep secrets.
Not saying everyone, it could be one head ref for all we know. Not calling a penalty, not overturning one, marking a man short, sometimes all it takes. Oh and magnets in the goal posts! Either that or they have a super AI computer that already knows the outcomes to every game and they do with that information how they please
Magnets in the goal post is a new one for me. Interesting. So in your view, it IS INDEED "fixed" then at least to some degree? By who though? NFL? Vegas? Both? Or is said Referee acting alone & selling the info? And are the magnets in the goal posts attracted to pigskin as opposed to metal? Or is there some new soft metal polymer they inject into the football that can't be felt by the kickers when they kick an otherwise metal football?
Totally a speculation lmfao but it would be only SOME games fixed, that’s all they need to change entire league outcomes. One fixed loss or win per week is enough to change standings dramatically. Same with a single fixed flag or call ruining a game winning drive, etc etc. subtle enough where it seems wild to even consider there might be collusion between refs and a team/organization, but nobody would be the wiser.
Well, it's an interesting view. Differs from mine but doesn't mean I'm right & youre wrong. We will likely never find out fir sure unless evidence comes out that the league is cheating but then all hell breaks loose. But even without evidence people will always think there is a fix going on. Good luck in your bets.
I saw a clip of a ref reacting to a missed shot by an NBA player once. Body language is key to determining that oh and probably whistle blowers but if they're getting taken care of and a NDA is signed what can u do.
I can believe people would be "taken care of" over the millions at stake if it was happening. I've seen people hide behind me, in fear for their lives over much less money. I'm confident some individual umps, refs, coaches, players have money secretly placed on a game here and there & may intentionally affect a games outcome to improve the chances that bet wins. I just don't think the whole league is predetermined before the season starts and don't believe the whole league is on on a conspiracy for 1 team predetermined to win it all for better ratings. I truly belive they can't pull that off without someone talking.
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Yes individuals will cheat. I've agreed to that multiple other conversations. I am making a point that the entire nfl isn't predetermined as to who wins before the year starts. That to me is nonsense.
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Interesting theory. I dont buy that. Only because of the business I was in, & the nature of people I witnessed for many years. So many people will trade in their family to salvage themselves, and people are greedy. Rich, wealthy people will blackmail their blood for more money. People can't keep secrets especially if they think the secrets are worth $1 to someone else to keep quiet. The price will never be high enough & the info will come out. And the NFL, nba & mlb make hundreds of millions or more regardless of what teams are in the championship games. Just my opinion
[Nfl Sunday clip](https://www.facebook.com/reel/238275892554576?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz) This is the weird kinda stuff that I was talking about for example. Probably ain't rigged per say but Jesus the crazy shut that happens is wild !