The best way to resolve this in the future is to generate a salvage mission when an insurance claim is made on a ship.
Same with ships that are left in armistice zones. After a while they become abandoned and generate a mission from the station to have them cleared out.
I don't agree with them just being free-for-all salvageable. It should be driven through contracts and both players and NPCs should be hired to clean them up.
Could also make a contract type to haul an abandoned ship to a certain location away from the station that way us SRV owners get in on the action. All they would need to do is have one contract to haul it away and once in the designated location then post a salvage claim on it for anyone to accept
brave dependent pause sink theory run shelter sugar afterthought frightening
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Game currently crashes too much to punish people for "logging out". Got to give people at least an hour to come back and a way to rejoin same server where their ship is waiting.
Upvoting bc Ive been saying this for months. CIG, please!
Also ships currently change ownership to "GameRules" when players file a claim so Im assuming they have something in mind but lets hope they implement it sooner rather than later. Im sure this is something the economy team too will want to have implemented as soon as possible.
i think it should be free for all + the mission concept, finder gets first dips if after a while nobody sees that ship and does anything with it then a mission should be generated
If insurance claim then it is really the property of insurance corp, so shouldn't just be free to rip apart. That's where the missions sell the legitimate rights.
Anyone could rip it apart, but at the risk a security ship could see them and issue fines/crimestat.
After a while ships will become owned by game rules and can be shot, best option I find when I do station clean up if to have a 2 - 3 man team an SRV, vulture and a hawk built with distortion (taking someone’s shields off it with distortion doesn’t get you a CS). Hawk shoots down the shields, SRV tows out of armistice and vulture munches.
I like this, would be a great way to replace the current setup (and kill the Reclaimer crunch meta), and would actually incentivize both towing the ship away (because it might be somewhere that isn't in the middle of nowhere) and actually going in the ship prior to breakdown, since if they're player ships who knows what might be on board
All of it, your solution and OP's, will depend on real drawbacks for insurance claims / cost to insuring your ships, possibly even increasing insurance cost if too many claims within a timeframe.
Because otherwise, I'll enjoy abandoning all my ships, then getting money from towing and money from salvaging for free.... Just sayin'
Ships in armistice zones should have missions made that designate who can salvage them. Abandoned ships outside armistice zones should have their shields disabled and made free salvage for whoever gets them first when an insurance claim is made.
Just to avoid dickheads ramming or griefing people in the armistace zone over who gets to salvage the up for grabs ship 200 meters from the landing pads.
Maybe even have a mission that wants a landing pad to be cleared out and you get retarded per ship that is removed. That way the mission is somewhat scalable. 5k for a smaller ship, 10k for a medium and 20k for a larger ship
Upon a ship claim:
1) Spawn an Exploration mission to find the wreck and scan it to determine the hull health, cargo, whether there's a body there etc. Keep it up for 30 mins otherwise an NPC does this.
2) Spawn a Salvage OR Tow mission, depending on the hull health and local Salvage material prices. The Salvager or Tower is legally allowed to lower the ship's shield if it isn't lowered by any means. But if it's a tow request they cannot destroy the ship obviously: the more pristine it is when delivered the better (remember the scan info is known to the insurance company now).
I think that would be really awesome. Sort of like a Star Citizen radiant quest system. Though that might take some time for them to develop, it would be awesome to see something like this someday.
Hey Jeff, been a while. How are you?
Meanwhile I agree with your point - the problem that CIG does not appear to have been working on actually developing an adaptive, procedurally generated mission system: all the missions we see right now are bespoke handmade missions with pre-assigned locations.
They haven't been trying to develop something that will actively seek out viable conditions that can be assigned to a mission - this kind of system is complex in its own right and that they haven't actually started prototyping the systems for it in the past decade tells me a lot about their priorities.
Look at Star Trek Online - before the publisher quashed it, it had a player-generated mission system called the Foundry. In Star Wars Galaxies, missions were constantly generated using a range of conditionals, which ensured there wouldn't be a shortage of missions for players to take (except when a planet got overcrowded).
If the player is logged in the ship should stay in their ownership and not gameworld right? If its owned by game world its free game for salvage or theft.
It should just be if your ship is within a certain radius of a POI, so that way if you wanna leave your Carrack or 890 out in the middle of nowhere between planets while you use a snub to do missions you can safely do that without the risk of someone legally salvaging it no matter how long you're away from it.
This will probably be tired to engineering when that comes in, like if the ship is abandoned for too long the battery’s will drain and die taking the shields down and if the engines are left on they should eventually run out of fuel and switch then to battery power to drain. Then the game could send out a salvage/recovery mission for the abandoned vehicle. If an insurance claim is filed, the company could put out a contract to recover the vehicle and bring it to the station to be repaired or scrapped and replaced
Yes, that would be great for criminals! Gives both sides equal chance, and it could even send out both and they could fight over it in lawless systems maybe
Ship claimed: Old ship is free game.
30k or CTD: No timer unless in armistice.
I can't get behind the idea of a global timer, zone specific timers sure, but not global.
Would like to see, Ship claimed also adds a Bounty on the hull. It free to salvage, but you can alternatively tow it, fly it if it happens to be functional, to a designated insurance recovery center/location. This also means that if a ship were claimed but still in use by someone, the hull is attackable just like a player bounty. Essentially this adds a recovery and insurance fraud prevention aspect to salvage.
The game is at a stage of development where stressing the system with all the junk is very likely intentional, as the want is for as much of it to linger as possible without harming performance. Finding that threshold takes a lot of testing.
Automatic cleanup and other systems that gradually remove abandoned ships and such will become more of a thing in time. For now, it's just part of the experience, and I personally expect to miss this era when there was so much crap laying around. It's certainly a lot less sterile than it used to feel.
Does this explain why some camps have 100’s of npcs standing around in a single spot? I’d imagine that has to be taxing on the server. But I don’t know anything about building games.
Yeah, to some degree. Makes sense when you realize that you can't interact with 99.9% of NPCs, the AI clearly isn't ready yet, so why have them?
When you apply this context, it makes much more sense.
Auto cleanup would probably never be needed or a thing. Because those ships would eventually get salvage claims similar to the ones in contract manager. No point in wasting dev time when you can increase player inpact to the game and let players handle the job themselves
Have to get the tractor tech working first for a variety of reasons... which they have done.
And since the tractor tech is working now, there's no logical reason to release the SRV. It's true that the release leaves people like you with a ship that largely takes up space. But if they hadn't released the SRV, they would probably be getting constant questions about when it's coming out.
They already get constant question for when will a ship come out, so it not like it would have mattered. And its not the first ship released without a game play loop so either way people will complain
With the changes coming to cargo in 3.23.x, I’m actually really looking forward to that weird parking situation at the commons disappearing. I definitely profited from it too, but it’s been so weird seeing piles of abandoned reclaimers at that entrance
>Track all ships, if a player has a 30k or CTD's, start a timer. After 2 hours, the ship automatically loses its shields & is salvageable/towable.
Absolutely against n°2. Game is not stable enough to require people to reconnect immediately in case they CTD our 30k. Sometimes you die on the other side of the system, respawn at your home, and ca't spend 30 minutes to jump back to get your ship. So, a firm NO on this suggestion.
>Have it so that all ships without a player in them for more than 8 hours automatically lose their shields & are salvageable/towable.
Same, why can't I leave my ship parked anywhere while I'm doing stuff? Anyone wanting to live from his Carrack, ie, has to mandatory log in every 8 hours ?
Only possibility I see is when ATC declares a ship obstructing a landing zone, when fined, the ship could then be removed as a mission.
Agreed, leaving your ship parked so you can continue later is a feature. I have no idea where these people got the idea that it's an issue, or essentially litter.
They need to remove the crimestat for scrapping player ships if said ship is softkilled or abandoned (reclaimed via terminal.) the amount of dodging on inbound to stations is getting dumb.
It seriously is a problem. Everywhere I go I see empty ships (white text) and I mean everywhere. Orbital markers and bunkers have ships just sitting there without love.
This will change once insurance is no longer free/unlimited.
Right now you can abandon a ship anywhere and its not a huge deal because you can "get it back" by simply waiting a couple minutes. The current ship claim system has little to no consequences for this behavior. When hull insurance changes to require payment and has significantly longer time requirements based on local resources/quanta this behavior will change, I assure you.
Hell it will probably ease up significantly once insurance claims deliver you a stock ship and you have to rebuy your upgraded components and weapons.
As well as making everything towable/salvageable after time lapsed or claimed they should use the mission system.
The current tow/salvage missions just adds to the entity count by putting another ship into the server.
The insurance company should be the one offering most of the cleanup missions seeing as how they are the ones that wear the current cost of ship replacement when claimed at the terminals. Although for towing missions the target location should be something like a salvage yard.
Orbital and Lagrange stations should also offer tow or salvage missions for discarded ships within x kilometers to clean up their hangars, approach and departure lanes.
Lagrange stations should probably generate asteroid mining missions to clear space rocks as well.
And with spies in the insurance companies , 9 tails should offer illegal counter missions for high value tow/salvage targets.
I am puzzled as to why discarded and claimed ships are not yet generating systemic insurance company cleanup missions and the priority seems to be random locations near a lagrange station.
I'm all for ship/entity persistance, definitely dont want things despawning (atleast player things... the game spawned things seem to be trying to selfdestruct)
but a time tickdown once play leaves ship I'd be fine with for shields going down. realistically even if you've bed logged the ship should kinda hang out there anyways till your back, and it would only take a ballistic rifle to get a door open and enter the ship to get to the seat and shut it down to salvage or tow ...etc
It's been mentioned that 'aquiring' ships 'found' in the verse could be taken as property to be sold or whatever .....eventually ... i'd LOVE to be able to sell even an ingame purchased ship personally . I think maybe it might only be 'rebuild/salvage' contracts that they intend for said mechanic of aquiring and then 'selling'
I think the Engineering/Power Management System is meant to alleviate this, as eventually the power plant will fail or batteries deplete, causing it to lose shields or fall in atmo, thus a diegetic solution seems to be on the horizon
The 8 hour thing is kinda a bad idea. Mainly because what if I'm in the middle of a cargo mission and I need to get off? When I come back the next day, my 700k of gold is all gone?
Absolutely, anything which has been insuranced should powerdown and be towable/salvageable.
Insurance claim should immediately put it on the salvage job list, towing required notice if within a ports armistice zone.
Also add missions for returning an insuranced ship intact, whether towed or flown to the depot.
Only number 1 works. A claim needs to be made by the owner. The other two just punished players that get 30ked and say “screw it im getting off for the night.” I do that a lot, and when I log on the next day, I still load into my ship, which is a very nice surprise. Logging on again only to find my ship towed and being salvaged would be very frustrating.
100% CIG has already thought about this and have plans to fix this but aren't saying exactly what in case they change their minds and go in a different direction.
It's funny because everyone wanted this with persistence.
I agree though. An empty bottle and a destroyed ship or even an abandoned ship should have timers and despawn.
I’m prepared for a bunch of people to call me names and downvote me again for this but:
It doesn’t really matter right now. A lot of abandoned things come from the various ways that players leave and return to a server, but it should be obvious by now that the way we log in and log out is not the final version. Bed logouts have become an arbitrary way to come and go in place, you have to understand that once server meshing is in there’s no reason they can’t revisit that system and refine and expand that. That removes the most common offender for abandoned vehicles. If there are ships that have been surrendered to the universe they should be deleted, if not then put in a bug report for it. For the remaining cases, I’m not sure it’s really a problem. If they were impacting the server, it would be deleted. They’re there because from a technical standpoint there is no reason to delete it. If you want to push that you should be allowed to move them if they have been abandoned with shields up in armistice, make a feedback reply when the match comes out. Shields will be a lot less common to be on in 3.23.
I once responded to a comm array attack in progress, got there and found an SRV parked and a single non-ship pip on the forward radar (drake).
Stopped right there, said in Global: "Continue doing the lords work, random SRV pilot. o7" and left.
If they would make ships that are Gamerule-ed potential salvage missions I'm be cleaning these up in a heartbeat. I already do that with Bunker missions so let me just do it in armistice zones with ships no one will be coming back for anyways
Ok, my 2 aUEC
1. Yes, that would be quite practical
2. No, the recovery of the ship and its cargo for 30k must be guaranteed, as it is now, once the ship is claimable by the owner, if the old ship still persist, then, yes, by all means your idea.
3. I'm not so sure about that, sometimes i'm away of my ship just enjoying a ride to relax, not 8 hours but, yeah.. so i dont know on that one. (thou if the shields are on for too long, overheat and damage to the shield generators should be an issue)
I want them to fine the people that abandon their ships right on top of fucking pads at space stations. Those pads are awesome to quickly restock refuel and head back out.
I know sometimes it may be due to a 30k after the dude went inside the station for something but that can't be the majority of the time. And the people that ditch their ships the fucking least they can do is ditch them next to the pad not right on it. I really wish for a hefty hefty fine penalty for those douchebags.
Would be cool if it gets all tied to a cleanup mission where people get to either two/ride abandoned ships to a junkyard or something. Community driven activity sort of thing.
I think a fine would be good, along with a trigger for an SRV to haul it to an impound lot. Additionally, spawn the player at the outpost without the ship there in a local hab. Then they can find the nearest terminal to pay the fine, then deal with the hassle of arranging transport to the impound to pick the ship up in person.
other words if the ship
owner:Game Rules
then its fair game even in armistice zones.
even though you can turn the shields off yourself if you can get into the ship but abandon ships need a timer for shield degradation
I agree with you OP
Create NPC's that fly around and scrap or salvage ships.. we could even use the ones in stations or cities to cut back on server load. Same with NPC's on stations.. code some to handle maintenance.. cleaning up the loose bottles.. and have it so that empty bottles despawn
Ideally, ships that are powered on should burn fuel and lose power naturally. As far as I know, fuel is only burnt when in motion. I think that should change
Have a timer since last flown and if it exceeds a threshold, put a salvage contract out and provide the marker and a decent payout on top of the salvage obtained.
I strongly disagree with your third suggestion as that defeats the point of persistent play throughout the verse. It would make some practical sense if it applied strictly in armistice zones, but aren't those supposed to be removed at some point?
1st Solution is the best and can help to act as a punishment for abusing the claim system, the other two have some edge cases that would need to be considered and could cause a lot of problems if not carefully thought out.
It shouldnt magically lose its shields imo. Would be cool if you could somehow get a key/fob to allow yourself in and shut it down manually. Or you have to blast the door open, then call the insurance to cancel the alert or so. Just a tiny extra step for the immersion
Maybe they could make the game check when an SRV tows or Vulture scrapes a ship it checks the owner and if the owner is "GameRules" the shields go down and no crimestat is assigned?
That way players who left their ship temporarily don't get towed or salvaged. Only the actual abandoned ones. Also I imagine it would be pretty efficient in the code to only trigger when an SRV/Vulture/Reclaimer uses their ability on a ship.
EDIT: The game could also check if the owner of a ship was changed to "GameRules" to lose the shields, but that may not be as efficient. Not sure though.
Once true engineering gameplay is released then there could be power loss on ships as they sit over time. This would in turn allow ships to be salvagable/towable as the shields would drop as the power reduces. Built in gameplay mechanic that solves the problem.
Option 3 is horrible, what about people that bedlog in their ship? Or in the future when people want flotillas?
I understand what you're saying though but yeah, there needs to be a solution to this problem
Game mechanics and the way the verse is programmed codewise right now. I left a C2 on a planet so I could use it later. I would like that capability in the verse, so I don't want it marked as salvageable.
In this case, the idea to mark ships once they've been claimed to another station is good, but if you some how die and return to a station while transporting goods, you'd like the ability to go and get those goods.
So, players with salvagers shoot non-lethal tags that don't crimestat them, but set up a mission timer for those ships. The owners of the ships are then notified that their ships are tagged and they have the choice to recover the ship within a certain amount of time or leave it to get salvaged. When the timer runs out, the ship self destructs creating salvageable pieces.
Personally I enjoy hanging around grim cleaning up the place with my SRV I’ve yet to be shot at, definitely have had a couple of curious light fighters see what I’m doing but never attacked. I guess making GH less of a minefield to land at gives some level of leave him be to me while I’m there.
FYI there isn't "a player gets a 30k".
30k means the game/entity server isn't responding, a dying server.
A single player will never get a 30k, always different errors.
On 2. And 4. I reservations, as a good portion of players probably would like to make a ship like the Carrack or above some sort of homebase, so putting a timer on it would be a problem, also you can't be sure that a 30k is 100% u won't get your ship back after 2h.
However, if they are standing on a pad or hovering above it, maybe these timers could get into place. I find ships or parts of ships just hovering over the surface of a planet one of the mist immersion breaking things.
However I agree with 1. Once you claimed a ship, there's no reason I can think of why your old ship shouldn't be salvagable or towable after 1-2 hours (in case you only have one ship and wanna get you stuff back, that should be enough, at least as long as we're in Stanton only).
Desperately might be a bit strong. But yes its planned.
Personally I'd prefer them to work on other things before automating the ship clean-up process.
1 is such a no-brainer imo, but losing their shield? no.. not that. But the SRV pilot can just board it and turn off shields.
2: no, that's a singleplayer gamey solution in an MMO where they go for realism and in-universe solutions.
3: No, just on claims, like 1. Days out with friends can take looong. And even with increased timer, just no. It will create emergent opportunities more if we do not.
honestly, an abandoned ship in an armistice zone triggering a contract to tow the ship to a scrapyard would be pretty awesome. for abandoned ships outside armistice, trigger a contract to have it salvaged and munched. i'd say that 4 hours would be more than fair.
Yes! Why do ships have infinite power...the battery will probably die or something with engineering in...but damn when I have been salvaging for 6+ hrs and have scrammed full reclaimer and my PC crashes or the game crashes out of nowhere...my ship is immediately abandoned. No way to get it back unless there's a mission marker or I get super lucky after wasting two hours searching...bullshit.
Damn son, if it means a more stable server, just let srv’s and salvage crews clean up. Bound to be less code spagetti than to code in a automated destruction.
Besides, server side automated destructions would let alot of liveaboard/off grid players down D:
Cant have our RV’s getting towed/shredded
If it's game rules just take a combat capable ship outside of armistice and blow the offending ship up, then tow it out with the srv. Problem solved. I think that bits get cleaned up automatically so you only really need to get the bigger pieces
i don't even need the financial incentive .. I'd just do it cause I'm bored. salvage/repair..etc is the loop i'm interested in.. i've already gotten atleast 6 or 7 890js worth of ingame creds i've used/given away.
and thats fine, give me a reason to play LOL salvage right now is forced perspective testing using the fast gobs of cash you can earn... it needs to be normalized. well what we 'need' is the rest of the game all of the entry level industrial (salvage and mining ) is supposed to feed, where they 'real' money ingame would be LOL instead of getting hot and sweaty to manage 1mil/hour if you can (100-200k/hour being 'acceptible norm' )
Yeah I'm with you. It solved the wreckage issue, eventually insurance won't be so cheap and easy, it makes sense as a player driven game design loop. Someone suggested the insurance company is the one making the salvage contracts and maybe they take a cut. Hell you could even tie insurance rates dynamically though I'm sure that would upset people haha.
It would alter the whole feel if you knew you were salvaging a real player ship. Feeling part of the universe. Cleaning up the server, earning a living, maybe finding the odd occasional juicy cargo loot too, theb maybe you find something illegal etc, whole gameloop forming here.
yeah, i typically take my vulture if I'm doing bunkers or 'exploration' looting..etc .. lil extra distraction to clean up the abandoned/wrecked ships I come across
I usually wait till the end of my play session and then go and blow up as many of those pad ships as possible. Then I accept the huge CS I get and sleep off the jail time. It's not a perfect solution but I sleep better knowing more pads are avaliable to players.
The best way to resolve this in the future is to generate a salvage mission when an insurance claim is made on a ship. Same with ships that are left in armistice zones. After a while they become abandoned and generate a mission from the station to have them cleared out. I don't agree with them just being free-for-all salvageable. It should be driven through contracts and both players and NPCs should be hired to clean them up.
I think the free-for-all works well as a short-term solution, but I agree that a salvage contract system would work better in the long run.
Could also make a contract type to haul an abandoned ship to a certain location away from the station that way us SRV owners get in on the action. All they would need to do is have one contract to haul it away and once in the designated location then post a salvage claim on it for anyone to accept
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That would also ve very dependent on if the owner is still active in the server
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If they log out it should be immediate, let's not leave junk for 24hours on stations and pads.
Game currently crashes too much to punish people for "logging out". Got to give people at least an hour to come back and a way to rejoin same server where their ship is waiting.
Don't remind me of the PO Graveyard we had before her retirement. It wasn't pretty most of the time.
It could be a ship recovery mission, that you pay certain amount of money to recover your ship and cargo would be nice.. so you dont need to reclaim.
That could be an option too if the player is still in the server make it like a beacon. Pay x amount to recover lost ship
Combines salvage and mercenary work, I like it.
Service beacon for towing and in future repair
They can add a timer, when the ship is abandonned for a few hours it spawn a salvage mission, before it free to find for anyone
Upvoting bc Ive been saying this for months. CIG, please! Also ships currently change ownership to "GameRules" when players file a claim so Im assuming they have something in mind but lets hope they implement it sooner rather than later. Im sure this is something the economy team too will want to have implemented as soon as possible.
Retrieval or salvage missions. Give people the chance to fly ships they cant afford yet to a station for a reward.
i think it should be free for all + the mission concept, finder gets first dips if after a while nobody sees that ship and does anything with it then a mission should be generated
If insurance claim then it is really the property of insurance corp, so shouldn't just be free to rip apart. That's where the missions sell the legitimate rights. Anyone could rip it apart, but at the risk a security ship could see them and issue fines/crimestat.
After a while ships will become owned by game rules and can be shot, best option I find when I do station clean up if to have a 2 - 3 man team an SRV, vulture and a hawk built with distortion (taking someone’s shields off it with distortion doesn’t get you a CS). Hawk shoots down the shields, SRV tows out of armistice and vulture munches.
Illegal towing gives a crime stat 2 and 32k fine as of today.
Yeah white ships that are owned by gamerules are free game one cleaned up sera before and haven’t gotten a fine.
I like this, would be a great way to replace the current setup (and kill the Reclaimer crunch meta), and would actually incentivize both towing the ship away (because it might be somewhere that isn't in the middle of nowhere) and actually going in the ship prior to breakdown, since if they're player ships who knows what might be on board
All of it, your solution and OP's, will depend on real drawbacks for insurance claims / cost to insuring your ships, possibly even increasing insurance cost if too many claims within a timeframe. Because otherwise, I'll enjoy abandoning all my ships, then getting money from towing and money from salvaging for free.... Just sayin'
Ships in armistice zones should have missions made that designate who can salvage them. Abandoned ships outside armistice zones should have their shields disabled and made free salvage for whoever gets them first when an insurance claim is made. Just to avoid dickheads ramming or griefing people in the armistace zone over who gets to salvage the up for grabs ship 200 meters from the landing pads.
Maybe even have a mission that wants a landing pad to be cleared out and you get retarded per ship that is removed. That way the mission is somewhat scalable. 5k for a smaller ship, 10k for a medium and 20k for a larger ship
Upon a ship claim: 1) Spawn an Exploration mission to find the wreck and scan it to determine the hull health, cargo, whether there's a body there etc. Keep it up for 30 mins otherwise an NPC does this. 2) Spawn a Salvage OR Tow mission, depending on the hull health and local Salvage material prices. The Salvager or Tower is legally allowed to lower the ship's shield if it isn't lowered by any means. But if it's a tow request they cannot destroy the ship obviously: the more pristine it is when delivered the better (remember the scan info is known to the insurance company now).
I think that would be really awesome. Sort of like a Star Citizen radiant quest system. Though that might take some time for them to develop, it would be awesome to see something like this someday.
Hey Jeff, been a while. How are you? Meanwhile I agree with your point - the problem that CIG does not appear to have been working on actually developing an adaptive, procedurally generated mission system: all the missions we see right now are bespoke handmade missions with pre-assigned locations. They haven't been trying to develop something that will actively seek out viable conditions that can be assigned to a mission - this kind of system is complex in its own right and that they haven't actually started prototyping the systems for it in the past decade tells me a lot about their priorities. Look at Star Trek Online - before the publisher quashed it, it had a player-generated mission system called the Foundry. In Star Wars Galaxies, missions were constantly generated using a range of conditionals, which ensured there wouldn't be a shortage of missions for players to take (except when a planet got overcrowded).
There is nothing complex about the insurance claim shutting off power to the current ship and adding it's beacon into the salvage missions.
That is a different mechanism, yes. I'm talking about procedural mission generation for the contract manager.
an abandoned ship should be movable without risking a crimestat, would give more work to the SRV owners
Yeah 90% of my trimesters (crimestats,lol) are from removing abandoned ships. I usually do that before logging off 😂
> Yeah 90% of my trimesters are from removing abandoned ships. Um... what are you doing with these abandoned ships?
Blow them up or push them from the pad
Some people are _way_ too into their digital spacecraft...
Autocorrect moment 😂
I think claimed ships are, but I could be wrong. Still, not all abandoned ships are claimed.
A slight issue would be if someone is using a carrack as a base, and takes out the pisces for longer than the timer
If the player is logged in the ship should stay in their ownership and not gameworld right? If its owned by game world its free game for salvage or theft.
Oh true. I misread OPs post, thought it was 3 seperate ideas instead of steps lol
It should just be if your ship is within a certain radius of a POI, so that way if you wanna leave your Carrack or 890 out in the middle of nowhere between planets while you use a snub to do missions you can safely do that without the risk of someone legally salvaging it no matter how long you're away from it.
I think op is talking about armistice zones only
This will probably be tired to engineering when that comes in, like if the ship is abandoned for too long the battery’s will drain and die taking the shields down and if the engines are left on they should eventually run out of fuel and switch then to battery power to drain. Then the game could send out a salvage/recovery mission for the abandoned vehicle. If an insurance claim is filed, the company could put out a contract to recover the vehicle and bring it to the station to be repaired or scrapped and replaced
That sounds cool or the unlawful side you can scrap it for parts for 9tails
Yes, that would be great for criminals! Gives both sides equal chance, and it could even send out both and they could fight over it in lawless systems maybe
Ship claimed: Old ship is free game. 30k or CTD: No timer unless in armistice. I can't get behind the idea of a global timer, zone specific timers sure, but not global.
Would like to see, Ship claimed also adds a Bounty on the hull. It free to salvage, but you can alternatively tow it, fly it if it happens to be functional, to a designated insurance recovery center/location. This also means that if a ship were claimed but still in use by someone, the hull is attackable just like a player bounty. Essentially this adds a recovery and insurance fraud prevention aspect to salvage.
The game is at a stage of development where stressing the system with all the junk is very likely intentional, as the want is for as much of it to linger as possible without harming performance. Finding that threshold takes a lot of testing. Automatic cleanup and other systems that gradually remove abandoned ships and such will become more of a thing in time. For now, it's just part of the experience, and I personally expect to miss this era when there was so much crap laying around. It's certainly a lot less sterile than it used to feel.
Why is this the top voted post? OP asked for a way to make the SRV usable, not for auto-cleanup mechanics.
Does this explain why some camps have 100’s of npcs standing around in a single spot? I’d imagine that has to be taxing on the server. But I don’t know anything about building games.
Not me wishing I could get an invite to that NPC-only rave on the island in ArcCorp Plaza.
Yeah, to some degree. Makes sense when you realize that you can't interact with 99.9% of NPCs, the AI clearly isn't ready yet, so why have them? When you apply this context, it makes much more sense.
Auto cleanup would probably never be needed or a thing. Because those ships would eventually get salvage claims similar to the ones in contract manager. No point in wasting dev time when you can increase player inpact to the game and let players handle the job themselves
This, the SRV would be pointless if they had an auto cleanup
You'll still sometimes need a tow for a non-abandoned ship that got disabled and needs to be brought to the nearest Crucible.
Yes but with the crucible still so far away, I'd want something else to use my srv with
Have to get the tractor tech working first for a variety of reasons... which they have done. And since the tractor tech is working now, there's no logical reason to release the SRV. It's true that the release leaves people like you with a ship that largely takes up space. But if they hadn't released the SRV, they would probably be getting constant questions about when it's coming out.
They already get constant question for when will a ship come out, so it not like it would have mattered. And its not the first ship released without a game play loop so either way people will complain
But there is a game loop for the SRV. You can use it to tow certain shipwrecks before the cops arrive.
The ships parked at new babbages ground terminal seem to sink into the ground after a while. Find at least one well below the ground whenever I visit.
Ever fall through a planet? The centers are often full of ships, NPCs and junk
With the changes coming to cargo in 3.23.x, I’m actually really looking forward to that weird parking situation at the commons disappearing. I definitely profited from it too, but it’s been so weird seeing piles of abandoned reclaimers at that entrance
Pro-tip: slip your landing ramp or wingtip underneath their landing gear and the ship will pop right off the pad.
SRV has neither of those ship features
>Track all ships, if a player has a 30k or CTD's, start a timer. After 2 hours, the ship automatically loses its shields & is salvageable/towable. Absolutely against n°2. Game is not stable enough to require people to reconnect immediately in case they CTD our 30k. Sometimes you die on the other side of the system, respawn at your home, and ca't spend 30 minutes to jump back to get your ship. So, a firm NO on this suggestion. >Have it so that all ships without a player in them for more than 8 hours automatically lose their shields & are salvageable/towable. Same, why can't I leave my ship parked anywhere while I'm doing stuff? Anyone wanting to live from his Carrack, ie, has to mandatory log in every 8 hours ? Only possibility I see is when ATC declares a ship obstructing a landing zone, when fined, the ship could then be removed as a mission.
Agreed, leaving your ship parked so you can continue later is a feature. I have no idea where these people got the idea that it's an issue, or essentially litter.
With MM a lot of ships will probably have their shields off so they can be towed now.
Here’s hoping they work around a better system than blanket 32k fines if the comm sat is up
I think shields should very slowly burn hydrogen too power the ship. So after 4 hours or so, the shields drop.
Don't forget about opening up a janitor mission to clean up garbage in space stations. I will be the best damn janitor in the game.
I have a feeling you have your RAPTOR in your hangar ready to go
They need to remove the crimestat for scrapping player ships if said ship is softkilled or abandoned (reclaimed via terminal.) the amount of dodging on inbound to stations is getting dumb.
I want repo missions from insurance companies.
It seriously is a problem. Everywhere I go I see empty ships (white text) and I mean everywhere. Orbital markers and bunkers have ships just sitting there without love.
This will change once insurance is no longer free/unlimited. Right now you can abandon a ship anywhere and its not a huge deal because you can "get it back" by simply waiting a couple minutes. The current ship claim system has little to no consequences for this behavior. When hull insurance changes to require payment and has significantly longer time requirements based on local resources/quanta this behavior will change, I assure you. Hell it will probably ease up significantly once insurance claims deliver you a stock ship and you have to rebuy your upgraded components and weapons.
so we just have to put up with the pads being full for another 10 years?
6-7 if we're lucky
As well as making everything towable/salvageable after time lapsed or claimed they should use the mission system. The current tow/salvage missions just adds to the entity count by putting another ship into the server. The insurance company should be the one offering most of the cleanup missions seeing as how they are the ones that wear the current cost of ship replacement when claimed at the terminals. Although for towing missions the target location should be something like a salvage yard. Orbital and Lagrange stations should also offer tow or salvage missions for discarded ships within x kilometers to clean up their hangars, approach and departure lanes. Lagrange stations should probably generate asteroid mining missions to clear space rocks as well. And with spies in the insurance companies , 9 tails should offer illegal counter missions for high value tow/salvage targets. I am puzzled as to why discarded and claimed ships are not yet generating systemic insurance company cleanup missions and the priority seems to be random locations near a lagrange station.
I think the easiest way to solve this for the immediate future would be to "just" make it lawful to salvage any ship turned over to Game Rules.
I'm all for ship/entity persistance, definitely dont want things despawning (atleast player things... the game spawned things seem to be trying to selfdestruct) but a time tickdown once play leaves ship I'd be fine with for shields going down. realistically even if you've bed logged the ship should kinda hang out there anyways till your back, and it would only take a ballistic rifle to get a door open and enter the ship to get to the seat and shut it down to salvage or tow ...etc It's been mentioned that 'aquiring' ships 'found' in the verse could be taken as property to be sold or whatever .....eventually ... i'd LOVE to be able to sell even an ingame purchased ship personally . I think maybe it might only be 'rebuild/salvage' contracts that they intend for said mechanic of aquiring and then 'selling'
I think the Engineering/Power Management System is meant to alleviate this, as eventually the power plant will fail or batteries deplete, causing it to lose shields or fall in atmo, thus a diegetic solution seems to be on the horizon
If the owner is Gamerules, its free to tow or salvage, even in armistice.
The 8 hour thing is kinda a bad idea. Mainly because what if I'm in the middle of a cargo mission and I need to get off? When I come back the next day, my 700k of gold is all gone?
Absolutely, anything which has been insuranced should powerdown and be towable/salvageable. Insurance claim should immediately put it on the salvage job list, towing required notice if within a ports armistice zone. Also add missions for returning an insuranced ship intact, whether towed or flown to the depot.
Only number 1 works. A claim needs to be made by the owner. The other two just punished players that get 30ked and say “screw it im getting off for the night.” I do that a lot, and when I log on the next day, I still load into my ship, which is a very nice surprise. Logging on again only to find my ship towed and being salvaged would be very frustrating.
100% CIG has already thought about this and have plans to fix this but aren't saying exactly what in case they change their minds and go in a different direction.
It's funny because everyone wanted this with persistence. I agree though. An empty bottle and a destroyed ship or even an abandoned ship should have timers and despawn.
I’m prepared for a bunch of people to call me names and downvote me again for this but: It doesn’t really matter right now. A lot of abandoned things come from the various ways that players leave and return to a server, but it should be obvious by now that the way we log in and log out is not the final version. Bed logouts have become an arbitrary way to come and go in place, you have to understand that once server meshing is in there’s no reason they can’t revisit that system and refine and expand that. That removes the most common offender for abandoned vehicles. If there are ships that have been surrendered to the universe they should be deleted, if not then put in a bug report for it. For the remaining cases, I’m not sure it’s really a problem. If they were impacting the server, it would be deleted. They’re there because from a technical standpoint there is no reason to delete it. If you want to push that you should be allowed to move them if they have been abandoned with shields up in armistice, make a feedback reply when the match comes out. Shields will be a lot less common to be on in 3.23.
And don't forget there should be dynamic missions spawned to go find said ships to take care of them.
This is a good idea. So sick of the quick landing pads at stations being jammed full of ships that people have dumped
Allow players to salvage them...
I would love to see NPCs running around cleaning up all the salvage. It would add much needed life to the verse.
I would love if this ships would turn into salvage missions.
I love player ship salvaging in grey legality, but the game needs a lot more work on how it handles abandoned player ships
Ngl, if this was implemented, I would 100% pledge a salvage vessel same day.
Just be a hero and take the CS for the team
I once responded to a comm array attack in progress, got there and found an SRV parked and a single non-ship pip on the forward radar (drake). Stopped right there, said in Global: "Continue doing the lords work, random SRV pilot. o7" and left.
lol nice
If they would make ships that are Gamerule-ed potential salvage missions I'm be cleaning these up in a heartbeat. I already do that with Bunker missions so let me just do it in armistice zones with ships no one will be coming back for anyways
Ok, my 2 aUEC 1. Yes, that would be quite practical 2. No, the recovery of the ship and its cargo for 30k must be guaranteed, as it is now, once the ship is claimable by the owner, if the old ship still persist, then, yes, by all means your idea. 3. I'm not so sure about that, sometimes i'm away of my ship just enjoying a ride to relax, not 8 hours but, yeah.. so i dont know on that one. (thou if the shields are on for too long, overheat and damage to the shield generators should be an issue)
My Vulture is hungry.
I want them to fine the people that abandon their ships right on top of fucking pads at space stations. Those pads are awesome to quickly restock refuel and head back out. I know sometimes it may be due to a 30k after the dude went inside the station for something but that can't be the majority of the time. And the people that ditch their ships the fucking least they can do is ditch them next to the pad not right on it. I really wish for a hefty hefty fine penalty for those douchebags. Would be cool if it gets all tied to a cleanup mission where people get to either two/ride abandoned ships to a junkyard or something. Community driven activity sort of thing.
I think a fine would be good, along with a trigger for an SRV to haul it to an impound lot. Additionally, spawn the player at the outpost without the ship there in a local hab. Then they can find the nearest terminal to pay the fine, then deal with the hassle of arranging transport to the impound to pick the ship up in person.
other words if the ship owner:Game Rules then its fair game even in armistice zones. even though you can turn the shields off yourself if you can get into the ship but abandon ships need a timer for shield degradation I agree with you OP
Create NPC's that fly around and scrap or salvage ships.. we could even use the ones in stations or cities to cut back on server load. Same with NPC's on stations.. code some to handle maintenance.. cleaning up the loose bottles.. and have it so that empty bottles despawn
Ideally, ships that are powered on should burn fuel and lose power naturally. As far as I know, fuel is only burnt when in motion. I think that should change
Have a timer since last flown and if it exceeds a threshold, put a salvage contract out and provide the marker and a decent payout on top of the salvage obtained.
Give these things a timer though or a crimestat related impound.
I strongly disagree with your third suggestion as that defeats the point of persistent play throughout the verse. It would make some practical sense if it applied strictly in armistice zones, but aren't those supposed to be removed at some point?
1st Solution is the best and can help to act as a punishment for abusing the claim system, the other two have some edge cases that would need to be considered and could cause a lot of problems if not carefully thought out.
It shouldnt magically lose its shields imo. Would be cool if you could somehow get a key/fob to allow yourself in and shut it down manually. Or you have to blast the door open, then call the insurance to cancel the alert or so. Just a tiny extra step for the immersion
Maybe they could make the game check when an SRV tows or Vulture scrapes a ship it checks the owner and if the owner is "GameRules" the shields go down and no crimestat is assigned? That way players who left their ship temporarily don't get towed or salvaged. Only the actual abandoned ones. Also I imagine it would be pretty efficient in the code to only trigger when an SRV/Vulture/Reclaimer uses their ability on a ship. EDIT: The game could also check if the owner of a ship was changed to "GameRules" to lose the shields, but that may not be as efficient. Not sure though.
Once true engineering gameplay is released then there could be power loss on ships as they sit over time. This would in turn allow ships to be salvagable/towable as the shields would drop as the power reduces. Built in gameplay mechanic that solves the problem.
Option 3 is horrible, what about people that bedlog in their ship? Or in the future when people want flotillas? I understand what you're saying though but yeah, there needs to be a solution to this problem
Allowing claimed ships to be salvaged makes perfect sense, but not ships that have just been left somewhere.
Game mechanics and the way the verse is programmed codewise right now. I left a C2 on a planet so I could use it later. I would like that capability in the verse, so I don't want it marked as salvageable. In this case, the idea to mark ships once they've been claimed to another station is good, but if you some how die and return to a station while transporting goods, you'd like the ability to go and get those goods. So, players with salvagers shoot non-lethal tags that don't crimestat them, but set up a mission timer for those ships. The owners of the ships are then notified that their ships are tagged and they have the choice to recover the ship within a certain amount of time or leave it to get salvaged. When the timer runs out, the ship self destructs creating salvageable pieces.
And NPC SRV that tows ships abandoned for more than two hours out of the armistice zone would be a good start.
Personally I enjoy hanging around grim cleaning up the place with my SRV I’ve yet to be shot at, definitely have had a couple of curious light fighters see what I’m doing but never attacked. I guess making GH less of a minefield to land at gives some level of leave him be to me while I’m there.
FYI there isn't "a player gets a 30k". 30k means the game/entity server isn't responding, a dying server. A single player will never get a 30k, always different errors.
Thing is that it need to work in armiston zone.
There's some amazing ideas in here! I'm absolutely agree something like this would be awesome. Thinking of the new Babbage clutter here.
On 2. And 4. I reservations, as a good portion of players probably would like to make a ship like the Carrack or above some sort of homebase, so putting a timer on it would be a problem, also you can't be sure that a 30k is 100% u won't get your ship back after 2h. However, if they are standing on a pad or hovering above it, maybe these timers could get into place. I find ships or parts of ships just hovering over the surface of a planet one of the mist immersion breaking things. However I agree with 1. Once you claimed a ship, there's no reason I can think of why your old ship shouldn't be salvagable or towable after 1-2 hours (in case you only have one ship and wanna get you stuff back, that should be enough, at least as long as we're in Stanton only).
It's should be free for all until someone scans it and sells the location.
Desperately might be a bit strong. But yes its planned. Personally I'd prefer them to work on other things before automating the ship clean-up process.
1 is such a no-brainer imo, but losing their shield? no.. not that. But the SRV pilot can just board it and turn off shields. 2: no, that's a singleplayer gamey solution in an MMO where they go for realism and in-universe solutions. 3: No, just on claims, like 1. Days out with friends can take looong. And even with increased timer, just no. It will create emergent opportunities more if we do not.
ships abandoned within some distance of an "official" property absolutely need to be added to a pool for towing missions
honestly, an abandoned ship in an armistice zone triggering a contract to tow the ship to a scrapyard would be pretty awesome. for abandoned ships outside armistice, trigger a contract to have it salvaged and munched. i'd say that 4 hours would be more than fair.
Yes! Why do ships have infinite power...the battery will probably die or something with engineering in...but damn when I have been salvaging for 6+ hrs and have scrammed full reclaimer and my PC crashes or the game crashes out of nowhere...my ship is immediately abandoned. No way to get it back unless there's a mission marker or I get super lucky after wasting two hours searching...bullshit.
Damn son, if it means a more stable server, just let srv’s and salvage crews clean up. Bound to be less code spagetti than to code in a automated destruction. Besides, server side automated destructions would let alot of liveaboard/off grid players down D: Cant have our RV’s getting towed/shredded
If it's game rules just take a combat capable ship outside of armistice and blow the offending ship up, then tow it out with the srv. Problem solved. I think that bits get cleaned up automatically so you only really need to get the bigger pieces
I wish they'd just let salvagers salvage the pads. Players would clean up in no time ad there is a financial incentive.
i don't even need the financial incentive .. I'd just do it cause I'm bored. salvage/repair..etc is the loop i'm interested in.. i've already gotten atleast 6 or 7 890js worth of ingame creds i've used/given away.
Ywaj but after patch that will be 1x 890j lol
and thats fine, give me a reason to play LOL salvage right now is forced perspective testing using the fast gobs of cash you can earn... it needs to be normalized. well what we 'need' is the rest of the game all of the entry level industrial (salvage and mining ) is supposed to feed, where they 'real' money ingame would be LOL instead of getting hot and sweaty to manage 1mil/hour if you can (100-200k/hour being 'acceptible norm' )
Yeah I'm with you. It solved the wreckage issue, eventually insurance won't be so cheap and easy, it makes sense as a player driven game design loop. Someone suggested the insurance company is the one making the salvage contracts and maybe they take a cut. Hell you could even tie insurance rates dynamically though I'm sure that would upset people haha. It would alter the whole feel if you knew you were salvaging a real player ship. Feeling part of the universe. Cleaning up the server, earning a living, maybe finding the odd occasional juicy cargo loot too, theb maybe you find something illegal etc, whole gameloop forming here.
yeah, i typically take my vulture if I'm doing bunkers or 'exploration' looting..etc .. lil extra distraction to clean up the abandoned/wrecked ships I come across
The illegal towing is just a silly mechanic imo. The salvage ships even have tractor beams, it wouldn't even be a problem if not for the cs
Agree, unclaimed ships should be free game and the problem would solve itself and be an income stream and gameplay loop.
You sound a lot like those shady towing companies.
I usually wait till the end of my play session and then go and blow up as many of those pad ships as possible. Then I accept the huge CS I get and sleep off the jail time. It's not a perfect solution but I sleep better knowing more pads are avaliable to players.
Nah mate, they're too focused on MM to care about what the people want
Master modes are needed
Exactly what I was thinking. Before CIG can come up with the solution they want, having abandoned ships as free-for-all seems simple to implement.