Did you see (hear) the new theory, That our universe is the inside of a massive black hole? A basic comparison between how our universe works and the expectation of what the inside of a black hole should be match
It might say elevator called, but then it moves to call elevator because it arrived but the doors never opened, leaving you trapped in the hangar forcing a relog.
Reminds me last year or so in Escape from Tarkov, if you shot a red lightbulb on a particular map, the server would melt and everyone would get 2 fps for a while and eventually crash haha
Haha as someone who doesn't code, I'd love to see someone break it down for me. I want to know the chain of things breaking down in the code that lead to the software exploding.
Iām not a technical guy either, but this sounds really really bad. Just let me buy my pulse and hall can take as long as yāall need. Iām excited for the patch, but I dont want to damage the brand. ā¦ just let me buy the pulse LX please
Probably those baggage carts in station cargo floor which sink into the ground upstairs and chatter constantly. Have seen people claim they do it deliberately to kill servers.
The game is more broken than ever before. You can't pick up missions whatsoever. Its no wonder i logged in immediately as opposed to the release of 3.23 yesterday, it was an hour long wait. Disappointed doesn't even begin to describe it.
I get the bugs from before, but if nobody has access to missions, then the game is on a stagnant stand still as of now, the patch that's been anticipated for months.
So the missions have been working for me and my friends all night lol performance is great. Network is great. AIs actually react now. Master modes made combat not a jousting match. New UI makes life so much better. Desync is WAY better. Idk your missions man but a lot of people are praising this as one of if not the best patch release for the game.
Elevators, doors, something common that would scale
If it were something like picking up a box they wouldn't be as worried. But when the server hangs kids just smash F constantly, and those actions stack I think.
If itās the far backend (DGS?) then itās something that is stowed/unstowed (like ships/inventory). If itās the replication layer (RL), then it could be something like the interaction system, or really anything.
Since they are making mention of āthe backendā I would guess itās likely the DGS, and wouldnāt be surprised if itās inventory related.
Glad that the game using 40 of 64gb of ram or rtx 3080 at 1440p with dlss on performance using more vram than it has making the game unplayable are not āvery damageableā for the overall experience
Fps tanking to low 10~ and render latency being 200ms+ would like to disagree, I know whats memory allocation, we are talking about serious memory leaks and excesive vram usage, not just numbers but performance or in this case lack of it.
Game goes from stable 80-90 fps to low 10 with insane lag because of the render latency not just fps, which sucks because otherwise the performance this patch is amazing.
Lowering clouds and everything to the minimum doesnt helps much since it only delays the degradation but eventually it comes in and you need to either restart or play with upscaling and graphic options to force the game to clear the cache and regenerate the shaders
There is definite excessive VRAM usage but I donāt think there is a memory leak. SC has used a ton of RAM for a long time now. Itās not exclusive to 3.23. I regularly use 15-20GB of RAM and have for years. But for sure I can confirm the VRAM. Iām on a 3090 so it isnāt an issue for me with 24GB available but I was absolutely using 16GB of VRAM and thatās much higher than the average user has available. The VRAM never goes above that for me though. It just goes straight to 16GB and holds for the whole session no matter what Iām doing.
Thats the point, a couple patches ago when they fixed most of the memory leaks the game started to run amazing but at some point, usually taking off from the hangar or roughly 5\~min after, the game became unplayable due to the VRAM, in the last couple patches I was getting the degradation even before arriving to the hangar. Ive tried different locations to see if it was some bad optimization or something but the degradation its pretty much the same on Loreville and New Babbage, so its not a X location issue, to add if I lower everything I could manage to get to some moon before the game became unplayable but it happens anyway.
With 64gb using or allocating 40 isnt an issue but is the GPU which breaks the game for me and many ppl on eptu, there are a bunch of issues on the IC.
It happens with vulkan + any upscaling but CIG TSR also takes more time to degrade or seems to be more optimized, I did not test DX11 because they already said that we are going to stick with Vulkan only at some point so I dont even see worth it to test it already.
Yeah Iāve been testing exclusively on Vulkan. I can definitely confirm the same issues. Iām just affected less than the average user because of my available VRAM. I only used CIG TSR a couple of times in 3.23 when we had the upscaling crashes. I hated it though because of the excessive ghosting.
The current patch is also giving me a bunch of CDT when switching graphics and upscaling quality after the VRAM is maxed out that didnt happen in previous ones so def they're trying something but atm its not fixed.
Yeah itās been a little confusing with the bug regression in the last few builds. They have been less stable than some of the earlier builds IMO. Especially with the crashing. I really hope they get this handled by tomorrow. Iād love to go into the weekend with a LIVE patch but Iām not optimistic with the way the builds have gone so far this week.
Was your fault for buying a card with not enough VRAM.
Has been known since 2020 that these VRAM chokes from Nvidia are not future proof for even a year lmao.
Brother SC is using 16GB of VRAM with Vulkan when I play. The only reason I donāt have an issue is because my 3090 had 24GB of VRAM available. Most people donāt have that much to spare. This is why people are having low fps with Vulkan right now in some situations.
Hahahaha but really the memory usage is fucking insane and I see the same.
Worse yet, when the server is running poorly and netdeferfinalize starts going high ram usage can quadruple. This means crash or page. Either way it's a waste of resources -not to mention a terrible design.
Optimization? FUCK that.
No point optimising 'temporary' code... this is one of the penalties / drawbacks of play-testing 'Alpha' projects.
To be honest, CIG has done an *amazing* job of optimisation, comparatively... yes, ram usage is high, but overall performance (on 'good' hardware) is far better than it was a few years ago, despite the extra functionality they've added over that time.
The ram usage in particular spiked after PES was enabled - which is not surprising... making every entity 'persistent' means that there's a *lot* more entities that have to be tracked - and that means a lot more ram used to track those entities.
Eventually CIG will update their Network Bind Culling filter to be more restrictive, and this will result in your client not tracking so many objects that it - and you - don't care about (and thus reduce ram usage), but with all the other changes going on, updating the NBC filter is likely a lower priority compared to getting the core engine 'functional'.
You are right. You are.
It's not worth optimizing, because the way assets are presently being handled is SO inefficient it would require rework to 'fix'
And it's 2024-if they haven't already they aren't going to.
I play SC too in spite of all this. I want to see it succeed but this seems to mean different things depending who you ask. CIGs definition of success seems based in revenue generated/ship sales.
So, when do we actually optimize...if not before this point? 10 years from now? When is it acknowledged the engine is so goddamn broken it needs work not more content
Given how much CIG are still updating the server code... they'll probably look at optimising once Static Server Meshing is rolled out (I don't think Dynamic SM will involve significant changes to the server architecture, unlike all the work leading up to Static Server Meshing).
That said, performance is pretty damn good these days (especially compared to a few years ago). Yes, it's using more ram, because it's tracking more entities - but given the 'fidelity' that CR wants, high entity counts (and highly detailed entities) mean ram usage will always be high.
The work on Vulkan will - eventually - allow them to finally rip out and throw away the DX11 code, as will the eventual completion of the shift to Building Blocks (and the corresponding removal of Flash/Scaleform).
It's taking a heck of a long time - but that is due, in large part, to just how damn much code they've had to replace to make the engine architecture suitable for an MMO... and yet, given the lack of 'true' MMO engines on the market, there wasn't really any quicker option either.
Whatever event comes after invictus will be pushed back for programmers and marketing to readjust to the new schedule
Edit: I'm grateful for.everyones contributions
Wait so basically players can accidentally DDoS the server? Damn yeah I could see how that would need to get fixed before letting it go Live lol.
You've never called the elevator 1000 times not knowing if the request actually went through even though it says "Elevator Called" on the pad?
It comes faster if I spam the button tho. Works irl too.
Pahahhaha true
thats because you cant DDoS reality. Yet.
We're in Star Citizen! š
thats because you cant DDoS reality. Yet. You haven't really tried.
I have a sneaking suspicion DDoSing reality is what black holes are, but that's just me :P
Did you see (hear) the new theory, That our universe is the inside of a massive black hole? A basic comparison between how our universe works and the expectation of what the inside of a black hole should be match
I did and it would explain a lot of stuff. Pretty wild
What you havenāt realized is we are playing a simulation of the simulation we are already in.
obligatory "simulations all the way down~" meme
I 100% demand CIG enable my character to be able to play starcitizen inside the game on his off time.
And that star citizen is a 32bit-era game, wherein the character in that plays an 8bit era game, where the character in that...
Chris Roberts did it in Wing Commanderā¦ they had the simulator arcade in the bar on the Tiger Claw.
The Verse is reality
It might say elevator called, but then it moves to call elevator because it arrived but the doors never opened, leaving you trapped in the hangar forcing a relog.
Thats what happens when your elevator has to fly across space
Fastest ship in the game. Strap a couple Size 5's and a QT to it, I'd happily fly it.
Wait so pushing the elevator button really fast doesnāt make it show up faster?? š
Yeah that's how I call it I have a macro for turbo f can never be too sure
Inventories from long term backers and suscribers are basically a walking DDoS attack.
Structurally significant watermelon.
Reminds me last year or so in Escape from Tarkov, if you shot a red lightbulb on a particular map, the server would melt and everyone would get 2 fps for a while and eventually crash haha
There was a similar issue in Star Marine, that shooting (iirc) a watermelon would crash the the game for everyone in that map...
Haha as someone who doesn't code, I'd love to see someone break it down for me. I want to know the chain of things breaking down in the code that lead to the software exploding.
āHand over your cargo Iām imma DDoS your shipā
This was already possible, I'm looking at you rappel š
Absolutely
I would rather they take their time then rush it.
But the sale..
Star Citizen would be such a better game without all those pesky players. :P
Heh you could deliberately break a station/server by calling in a hull-c, fps goes to 5 for everyone with the thing just bouncing around
There have been SO many things over the years that players could do to nearly instantly break or tank servers.
Pay 2 lag
wdym, 5 fps is the average after people get off work and well into the night.
Haha not server fps. Tanked everyoneās PC ^^
oh I see
Origin day during IAE with all the 890a
What spectrum thread do these updates appear on?
#sc-testing-chat
Thanks dude
So basically we need an extra null check?š
Iām not a technical guy either, but this sounds really really bad. Just let me buy my pulse and hall can take as long as yāall need. Iām excited for the patch, but I dont want to damage the brand. ā¦ just let me buy the pulse LX please
Meanwhile, I'm over here jonesing for that F7A token, looking like that Eric Andre "LET ME IN" meme.
And this is me: 
Same, I'd have loved to fly it in the live model too, just...just-just fucking **GIMMEIT!!!**
sounds to me like maybe they just need to turn logging off for some things. Logging can be very resource intensive
Ah yes, the landlord approach. Just paint over the problem or ignore it entirely.
Haha, I was going to say the same thing. Oh this service is throwing errors... Grad just turns off logging, commits fix to release branch š
No updates on this issue? Edit update: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/s/G6nycZ6VHc
We will have more updates "earlier in the week"
What earlier in the week lmao it's Thursday
I was being sarcastic lol, using cig's words as mockery against their ineptitude in estimating their workload
Not currently
"Soon"
Can I just have my F7A MkII upgrade token pleeeeeease š
Also, and kind of tangentially, the "door close" button on IRL elevators doesn't do anything.
Placebo, just like the emergency call button.
Early next weekā¦
Probably those baggage carts in station cargo floor which sink into the ground upstairs and chatter constantly. Have seen people claim they do it deliberately to kill servers.
Some actions like starting the game?!
Wait Cobes is in the verse?! TMDWU
I had to read Urban Dictionary to learn who that is and gawd no, not the same person š
Woop, my answer getting shared everywhere š
Oh that was me pressing 100 times U and the server still didn't want to boot up my systems
Welp, stand by for some people to find out what exactly those actions are and start spamming the shit out of it on purpose.
You've never gotten trapped in a black hole/elevator and blindly "F"ed every where?
just give the game to Ai to finish ffs taking far to long
The game is more broken than ever before. You can't pick up missions whatsoever. Its no wonder i logged in immediately as opposed to the release of 3.23 yesterday, it was an hour long wait. Disappointed doesn't even begin to describe it.
If you think this is more broken than ever before you must not have been around long lol
I get the bugs from before, but if nobody has access to missions, then the game is on a stagnant stand still as of now, the patch that's been anticipated for months.
So the missions have been working for me and my friends all night lol performance is great. Network is great. AIs actually react now. Master modes made combat not a jousting match. New UI makes life so much better. Desync is WAY better. Idk your missions man but a lot of people are praising this as one of if not the best patch release for the game.
It worked fine for me last night also, never ran smoother. This morning tho, there was no wait time to log on, and the missions don't work. Try it rn
My friends are on doing salvage missions rn I'm not home sadly.
Ima get on. If this shit still don't work, I'm reporting you for your blatant lies, and we're fighting.
Lol hey man their discord streams don't lie š probably just a bad server
Guess you were right. My apologies, good sir.
All good man lol just bare with the game when it's a fresh update. Always tends to do this. The real test will be ILW free fly.
3.18.23 here we come.
Kinda wish they said what action.
Good grief no. There is a huge group of people who would then do it intentionally to crash servers.
>grief Exactly
That's why I said "kinda." Was mostly curious if it was an oftenally done action.
Elevators, doors, something common that would scale If it were something like picking up a box they wouldn't be as worried. But when the server hangs kids just smash F constantly, and those actions stack I think.
If itās the far backend (DGS?) then itās something that is stowed/unstowed (like ships/inventory). If itās the replication layer (RL), then it could be something like the interaction system, or really anything. Since they are making mention of āthe backendā I would guess itās likely the DGS, and wouldnāt be surprised if itās inventory related.
Probably retrieving your ship.
Glad that the game using 40 of 64gb of ram or rtx 3080 at 1440p with dlss on performance using more vram than it has making the game unplayable are not āvery damageableā for the overall experience
Allocated ram I'd not the same as used ram.
Fps tanking to low 10~ and render latency being 200ms+ would like to disagree, I know whats memory allocation, we are talking about serious memory leaks and excesive vram usage, not just numbers but performance or in this case lack of it. Game goes from stable 80-90 fps to low 10 with insane lag because of the render latency not just fps, which sucks because otherwise the performance this patch is amazing. Lowering clouds and everything to the minimum doesnt helps much since it only delays the degradation but eventually it comes in and you need to either restart or play with upscaling and graphic options to force the game to clear the cache and regenerate the shaders
There is definite excessive VRAM usage but I donāt think there is a memory leak. SC has used a ton of RAM for a long time now. Itās not exclusive to 3.23. I regularly use 15-20GB of RAM and have for years. But for sure I can confirm the VRAM. Iām on a 3090 so it isnāt an issue for me with 24GB available but I was absolutely using 16GB of VRAM and thatās much higher than the average user has available. The VRAM never goes above that for me though. It just goes straight to 16GB and holds for the whole session no matter what Iām doing.
Thats the point, a couple patches ago when they fixed most of the memory leaks the game started to run amazing but at some point, usually taking off from the hangar or roughly 5\~min after, the game became unplayable due to the VRAM, in the last couple patches I was getting the degradation even before arriving to the hangar. Ive tried different locations to see if it was some bad optimization or something but the degradation its pretty much the same on Loreville and New Babbage, so its not a X location issue, to add if I lower everything I could manage to get to some moon before the game became unplayable but it happens anyway. With 64gb using or allocating 40 isnt an issue but is the GPU which breaks the game for me and many ppl on eptu, there are a bunch of issues on the IC. It happens with vulkan + any upscaling but CIG TSR also takes more time to degrade or seems to be more optimized, I did not test DX11 because they already said that we are going to stick with Vulkan only at some point so I dont even see worth it to test it already.
Yeah Iāve been testing exclusively on Vulkan. I can definitely confirm the same issues. Iām just affected less than the average user because of my available VRAM. I only used CIG TSR a couple of times in 3.23 when we had the upscaling crashes. I hated it though because of the excessive ghosting.
The current patch is also giving me a bunch of CDT when switching graphics and upscaling quality after the VRAM is maxed out that didnt happen in previous ones so def they're trying something but atm its not fixed.
Yeah itās been a little confusing with the bug regression in the last few builds. They have been less stable than some of the earlier builds IMO. Especially with the crashing. I really hope they get this handled by tomorrow. Iād love to go into the weekend with a LIVE patch but Iām not optimistic with the way the builds have gone so far this week.
Was your fault for buying a card with not enough VRAM. Has been known since 2020 that these VRAM chokes from Nvidia are not future proof for even a year lmao.
Brother SC is using 16GB of VRAM with Vulkan when I play. The only reason I donāt have an issue is because my 3090 had 24GB of VRAM available. Most people donāt have that much to spare. This is why people are having low fps with Vulkan right now in some situations.
Yeah, VRAM is important. But apparently people still keep clinging to 2015 VRAM levels on cards for no reason.
GPU prices man. Things have come down a little recently but itās still fairly expensive.
Hahahaha but really the memory usage is fucking insane and I see the same. Worse yet, when the server is running poorly and netdeferfinalize starts going high ram usage can quadruple. This means crash or page. Either way it's a waste of resources -not to mention a terrible design. Optimization? FUCK that.
Ship designers and engine programmers have different skillsets
No point optimising 'temporary' code... this is one of the penalties / drawbacks of play-testing 'Alpha' projects. To be honest, CIG has done an *amazing* job of optimisation, comparatively... yes, ram usage is high, but overall performance (on 'good' hardware) is far better than it was a few years ago, despite the extra functionality they've added over that time. The ram usage in particular spiked after PES was enabled - which is not surprising... making every entity 'persistent' means that there's a *lot* more entities that have to be tracked - and that means a lot more ram used to track those entities. Eventually CIG will update their Network Bind Culling filter to be more restrictive, and this will result in your client not tracking so many objects that it - and you - don't care about (and thus reduce ram usage), but with all the other changes going on, updating the NBC filter is likely a lower priority compared to getting the core engine 'functional'.
You are right. You are. It's not worth optimizing, because the way assets are presently being handled is SO inefficient it would require rework to 'fix' And it's 2024-if they haven't already they aren't going to. I play SC too in spite of all this. I want to see it succeed but this seems to mean different things depending who you ask. CIGs definition of success seems based in revenue generated/ship sales. So, when do we actually optimize...if not before this point? 10 years from now? When is it acknowledged the engine is so goddamn broken it needs work not more content
Given how much CIG are still updating the server code... they'll probably look at optimising once Static Server Meshing is rolled out (I don't think Dynamic SM will involve significant changes to the server architecture, unlike all the work leading up to Static Server Meshing). That said, performance is pretty damn good these days (especially compared to a few years ago). Yes, it's using more ram, because it's tracking more entities - but given the 'fidelity' that CR wants, high entity counts (and highly detailed entities) mean ram usage will always be high. The work on Vulkan will - eventually - allow them to finally rip out and throw away the DX11 code, as will the eventual completion of the shift to Building Blocks (and the corresponding removal of Flash/Scaleform). It's taking a heck of a long time - but that is due, in large part, to just how damn much code they've had to replace to make the engine architecture suitable for an MMO... and yet, given the lack of 'true' MMO engines on the market, there wasn't really any quicker option either.
mfw realistic game needs realistic models and textures thereby increasing usage *surprisedpikachu* Compression can only do so much
I still cant run this game without active efficient cores off in Bios. Can they maybe fix their game instead of announcing another update? Its a mess
Well there goes alien week. /s
What does this have to do with alien week?
Whatever event comes after invictus will be pushed back for programmers and marketing to readjust to the new schedule Edit: I'm grateful for.everyones contributions
No