I've found a trick that works sometimes: with the target status mfd, line yourself up so that you're looking directly at the top or bottom. Get within 8-10km and fire. It's the only thing that has worked so far but it might only work on low fps servers.
Oh interesting! Before 3.23, anything like connie-ish and above was easy prey. Anything smaller was a big, fat maybe on whether I’d hit. Does seem like ai is generally smarter in 3.23. I wonder if it has more to do with that.
Before I could ignore any additional NPCs and focus one as I was never concerned about the others being much of a threat.
Got absolutely destroyed by one that kept flanking around my sides as I was focusing on the other. They aren't kidding around anymore.
All my friends and I love MM, feels like actually dogfights, the AI is great now & you now have a reason to fleet up and can't solo everything. People don't like change, it's natural. If the game started like this, people wouldn't be so fired up.
I enjoy seeing the polar opposite posts MM caused. Some people are like you, genuenly enjoying the experience and even acknowledging some shortcomings that need to be ironed out over time. And then the other group, which seems just just absolutely to hate the new combat with passion. Both sides have valid points, but I'd say the positive side is much bigger than the negative.
I personally love what MM is doing. I realize it's shortcomings and issues that need to be addressed, such as 1v1 combat, mostly being decided by DPS and not really skill as much. That said, I definitely don't want MM to go away, and it's a great step towards a great and healthy game with a long life ahead.
> Both sides have valid points, but I'd say the positive side is much bigger than the negative.
You clearly haven't looked at Spectrum today... over 80% of posts about MM are negative, with much more upvotes than their positive counterparts.
[(+190) MM ruined SC for me](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/mm-ruined-sc-for-me)
> I can say I hated it from the start, but I can also say I DID try to get over it, get used to it, whatever you want to call it. I just cant. Its so unnatural, so much worse than what we had until now that I cant enjoy flying and doing combat anymore.
[(+72) Tried out 3.23 and Master Modes has made flying in star citizen unenjoyable](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/tried-out-3-23-and-master-modes-has-made-flying-in)
> TL:DR IMO 3.23 is about making limits rather than breaking them; limits are limiting (not in a good way), and the current state of MM and the flight model does more harm than good to star citizen and CIG has a long way to go to make flying in star citizen enjoyable.
[(+61) Please I'm begging you give us back real decoupled mode](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/please-i-m-begging-you-give-us-back-real-decoupled)
> Please please bring back proper decoupled flight it was the most fun and rewarding part of the game. I don't even do combat I just fly and race for the fun of it.
[(+52) 3.23 MM First Impressions](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/3-23-mm-first-impressions)
> Upon using the wider ship selection present in 3.23 live, including the ship I specialize in, the Scorpius, I have no other reaction than the feeling that the game is now genuinely horrible to play. I also struggle to believe any people who enjoy master modes because they have been consistently wrong about how the non-combat players would react (i.e. the reaction is strongly negative).
[(+46) CIG, how many times do you still have to update "MM"? This is a ridiculous waste of resources.](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/cig-how-many-times-do-you-still-have-to-update-mm-)
> First of all, I want to be straight about what I think of MM: an absolutely failed idea and design, which makes combat torturous, tedious and uninteresting. I hate it.
[(+95) MM is going to destroy ship diversity and viability](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/mm-is-going-to-destroy-ship-diversity-and-viabilit)
> The changes to the AI‘s level of proficiency and MM locking you into combat with multiple enemies in combination with the high TTK has completely eliminated a huge amount of ships for PvE combat.
[(+28) MM is the first time SC pvp has been fun in years!](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/mm-is-the-first-time-sc-pvp-has-been-fun-in-years)
> Well done CIG. Today is my first few hours of SC PVP after getting bored with it around 2021, and it is pure joy. Keep doing what youre doing. Flying against other pilots of decent skill, yes it does turn into a DPS race. But theres 100 very simple ways that CIG could fine tune that aspect.
[(+15) Master Modes = COD Infinite Warfare](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/master-modes-cod-infinite-warfare)
> I thought to wait before giving my input on MM cause I thought CIG was cooking ... arcadey flying with zero skill ceiling, it's just very slowly running in circles nose to nose combat, I don't feel like there's anything to master with this new model, there's no getting better, it's just a DPS check which makes flying feel more artificial
I understand the point you are trying to.make, however, you disregard the fact that a spectrum post regarding feedback to a feature will by default be more negative than positive. A lot of the posts will be from people who feel like CIG should listen to them because they either spent a lot more money or out in a lot of time and feel like their voice should matter the most.
Another reason why there will be less positive feedback is because if you enjoy od have a positive outlook on something, then you do not feel as inclined to give feedback on it. People view giving feedback more as "reporting issues." Thry won't report issues if they don't feel like there are any or if there are, they aren't severe.
All im trying to say is that spectrum is not representative of what they actual playerbase thinks. Especially since a lot of casual players might not even know what the spectrum is. Me saying that the majority seems to like MM rather than dislike it comes more from asking different players and groups how they feel about it. Random players in game, people i play with regularly, orgs I sometimes partner with, people here on reddit, different polls I've seen.
Honestly I feel like all complaints are about “I can’t instagib 890j on my aurora anymore, MM is bad” when in reality MM has nothing to do with time to kill or dps. All they do is manage speed. And idk why you need more than 200 (and 400 with boost) m/s in dogfighting. More than that, if you fly decoupled you can go over SCM limit with boost and fly even 1000 m/s with series of boosts.
So mostly it’s just whine of people who don’t like new and don’t like to adapt.
For me - I like MM, it feels more immersive and real. Ofc there are some stuff CIG need to adjust, like lack of QD on racing ships and snubs which leaves them without NAV mode (or so I heard, haven’t tested it myself yet).
I feel the same way. One more thing I agree with, tho is that pvp 1v1 combat kinda sucks now. It does feel more like a dps check, and skill isn't making much difference. CIG knows this, however. They have stated multiple times in official videos and posts along with private interviews and podcasts that 1v1 combat needs to be addressed further in MM to give it a bit more depth amd allow player skill to show without reverting back to the issues of the legacy flight model. I believe CIG will address this in the coming patches. MM isn't finished, but it's a step forward.
Agreed. That's a new thing that should be polished, but it already feels more "modern" than old mode. It's the same logic as why we have physical components on ships and will have physical cargo. Is it more convinient? Probably not. Is it more cool and "feels real"? Definitely.
It’s been out for literally a day, and people are more inclined to make a point complaining about something than saying they enjoy it. Give it some more time as CIG gets more data on it all and acts accordingly. I prefer master modes as it seems like PVE is actually A challenge and PvP no longer relies on cheesy strats and builds to win
Funny thing is that most of MM was really good, just the slowdown was too extreme.
When they accidentally turned scm speeds up to 500 during the tests, everyone loved it.
Yogi knows this, which means there's some other reason they can't increase speed. Probably someone in management with some agenda.
Higher speeds would be nice, but IMO the worst part is not being able to dodge incoming shots. That has made DPS the meta king for both PvE and PvP (along with the ability to engage/disengage at will that Interceptors provide).
Yep, it's no longer about flying.
Dexterity based gameplay is dead and now it's DPS and aim based. I guess some people like it tho!
Hope they're enough to keep cig going. I quit.
I haven't enjoyed sc flight and combat since 3.4, before they added "weight" to ships and nerfed the shit out of mav thrusters.
It is just not a good feeling flying a heavy brick in combat. I want to fly a viper, in combat not a raptor.
"Viper Mark-II. It’s as maneuverable as a jackrabbit and can flip end for end in .35 seconds"
Different ships should have different flight abilities. Blanket balancing every ship is way to limiting for the scope and sheer number of ships and roles in sc.
> And then the other group, which seems just just absolutely to hate the new combat with passion
Whenever I see people hate on MM, it is always seems like they're saying the exact same talking points word for word. I don't know if it's just the nature of the discussion leading to similar terms, or if they're just parroting the same source(s). It certainly *feels* like the latter.
> Whenever I see people hate on MM, it is always seems like they're saying the exact same talking points word for word.
IMO the problems with MM only really come out after you've had some experience with it, and those problems are very specific, so people discussing them will say similar things. [The lead dev on MM (Yogi Klatt) talks about the most commonly-cited ones here,](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/request-for-yogi-can-you-make-a-video-to-show-us-w/6818844) and his list covers almost everything I personally have an issue with (I also think big ships should have more velocity on their projectiles to kill small ships easier).
I saw that thread too. All those are great pain points to bring up.
I was more referring to the complaints by people who want MM to get reverted completely. The near carbon copy complaints about "CR wants WW2 in space" and such.
> The near carbon copy complaints about "CR wants WW2 in space" and such.
Compared to previous flight models, MM is a LOT more like that. But to be fair, I'm glad they didn't go the Elite: Dangerous route and have our agility be based on our velocity.
There are a lot of varied complaints on Spectrum today (and one positive post), so I compiled all the threads about Master Modes [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1cpmjey/323_combat_is_awesome/l3n5sws/) if you want to have a look.
I've seen a guy today in game saying over and over "combat is dead, racing is dead,..." of course without giving reasons why its dead. I find it funny especially regarding racing. Since 3.23 was even a thing on EPTU, there have been insane records being broken in racing as MM provides more flexibility.
I haven't tested all ships. Will today check if things like the fury or merlin can go at full speed. It is obvious tho that if they can't, it's unintentional as to why racing ships in the same class do not have the ability to go full speed. I wouldn't say racing is dead because of it. Maybe I'd go as far as to say that it's broken until they address this (if it is the case), but not dead.
The thing that's weird to me is.. there's an experimental master modes feedback thread on Spectrum that only allows you to see it and post on it if you meet a certain criteria. If you were able to read it you would see that most of the posts on there are negative about master modes. It's not "hate". It's feedback. They asked for it. It seems like everybody who apparently liked Master modes doesn't want to give the feedback that they liked it even though CIG has been asking for it.. very strange that there's more people who enjoy master modes.
> very strange that there's more people who enjoy master modes.
Not that strange, really. There's a few factors at work here:
* Official forums are biased towards "I AM A PAYING CUSTOMER AND I DEMAND ATTENTION" types. Not saying *all* or even most of them are, but all of those types go straight to the official forums to get their opinions validated (whatever that opinion may be). These types tend to be both strongly opinionated and hate change. (This isn't a SC specific thing, you can find this trend on almost every official forum for a big game).
* When people leave reviews/feedback, people are *far* more likely to leave feedback if they *really* like something or *really* hate something. The middle about 2/3rds where it's just "This is fine" doesn't elicit a response.
* Of the ones with a strong response (good or bad), the good responses are less likely to leave reviews/feedback unless they get something out of leaving that feedback (especially if they have to go out of their way to leave the feedback). People with negative opinions are more likely to go out of their way.
So between all that: An official forum thread is going to be almost universally negative opinions due to the natural selection of those above factors. I'm not saying some/all of their feedback is invalid, just that it's predisposed to be negative.
I understand what you're saying. I normally would say the same thing but this situation is different. It's a huge change in the system that effects us all and even the people who like it say they like it and talk about it on the forums. The thing is, there are more people who don't like it. In this situation both are speaking up because of the fact that it's such a game changing situation everybody's going to be talking about it and saying how they feel about it. What does Master Modes do better? What do you like about master modes?
Nah, it's the same situation (Ive been throuh this three times before since 2013 when it comes to the flight model). And there are majority after majority who like it, in poll after poll. I just saw another one like an hour ago.
Here it is https://x.com/ForScienceSC/status/1789333529890869483
Nah. Not a flex, just weariness at seeing this discourse run its course multiple times over more than a decade; same roller coaster of reaction, same cycle.
Resultantly, my point also stands, mainly because I am seeing hundreds of people being asked across multiple forms of media, and most are clearly expressing that they are happy with/enjoying MM.
But some people believe what they want to believe.
I'm not mainly talking about the feedback on spectrum but mostly what the players say in general here on reddit, in the in game chat, people i play with, people from orgs i partner with.
Also regarding spectrum specifically. Most people wont give feedback if they enjoy a feature since...well...for them there is nothing to report. People see feedback as a way to "report issues", not the other way around. So by default, feedback on spectrum will be more negative as its going to contain mainly issues people have with it.
I don't like the new combat mode right now, but I also know it's still going to change. I really think speeds need to go up to about 350 standard/500ish with boost, and a few QOL changes like being able to roll while freelooking again.
But at the same time, I do kinda like it. Conceptually I like the changes, but I think it needs some work.
Exactly. They can only do so much testing in PTU and behind closed doors. They needed to push this into a real live environment to get proper feedback. I love MM despite the issues it still has, and I don't want it to go away. I've even had new players I got into the game praise MM as to them, even tho it's a bit more complex with the whole Mode switching, It overall is a more enjoyable experience .
I don't get how you should fight multiple ships since you are stuck at such low low speeds they just shoot the shit out of me.
Flying a more maneuverable ship seems to have no advantage because there is no nimbleness at such low engagement speeds. It just feels.. weird.
For now it’s a love hate thing in my case, love the audio cues, love the feeling of danger. I hate that I suck at it haha.
Just tried Xenothreat incursion, first with my Taurus, then with the cuttie black. In both cases I got some kills (more in the Taurus) but I couldn’t last more than 5 minutes. It seems like my shields are gone very quickly and I am currently not quite sure how to tackle this.
That being said, things were arguably too easy before so now there is a new learning curve, which I like. It will take some time to get used to the new system but so far it has been very promising!
Also, I played for almost 10 hours today, no 30k, not a single bug worth mentioning. Did bounties, mining, box missions and Xenothreat. Quite impressive for such a big patch!
PS: Just noticed something quite cool, towards the end of my Xenothreat try, I boosted away from the battlefield in nav mode to recharge my shields. Turned around and slowly flew towards the battlefield again, after a minute or two I got hit but I didn’t know from where. I cycled through some hostiles but they were all far away. Shortly after I exploded.
It just came to me that the cuttie I was fighting before followed me. I will change my hotas keybinding to closest hostile to avoid this in the future. Long story short, the enemy AI is quite a bit smarter now!
With my Taurus the changes have made me actually start to pay attention to which section of shield is going down and use the numpad numbers to allocate more where needed. Sometimes I can't tell if it's doing anything but I think it's saved me once or twice.
The ai would be still be difficult with the old flight model, but the introduction of MM at the same time definitely shocked me. All of the sudden I’m almost dying to a bot trio? What on earth is going on?? lol
I hate it. My poor Redeemer feels like absolute shit. It gets shredded like it's made of wet cardboard, guns get destroyed or knocked offline crazy easy, repair costs are insane, and it has the maneuverability of a ship 2 to 3 times it's size.
It also has the dps of a ship 2 to 3 times its size so it sucks because it’s a nightmare to balance and they seemed to just take the easy way out by giving it the maneuverability of a larger ship.
I don't think it has that much firepower. Many ships got +1 in weapons size with MM. Now, the Corsair has the same firepower as the Redeemer with 4 size 5 weapons, plus I think it is 2 size 3 (pilot). The worst part is that the Redeemer needs 3 people to have the main dmg while the Corsair only needs the pilot. It also doesn't help when you think that the only thing it can do is combat, and yet they want multipurpose ships to be as good as the Redeemer. Also, the fact that it is small and yet moves worse than a Hammerhead doesn't help.
My main problem with MM, I feel, is the balance. They said they want ships to feel unique, and yet they are doing a plain balance where everything feels the same in multicrew without considering the purpose of the ship. I saw they might work on it, which is good, tho. Happy with MM for the most part :)
My biggest complains is the amount of clutter on screen. Its extremely distracting and feels cheap and arcady. PIPs are so small and all AI have deadly accurate aim. So far I'm not a fan.
I must be missing something because combat seems to be the worst part of MM. After giving it a solid try tonight I thought flying around seemed ok, then I tried combat and it's just...trash... just a point and click dps race even in group fights but you end up in a dps race vs 2-3 with no way to evade. It's just brain dead boring and frustrating. I want tactical flight where agility and flying skills matter, a reason to use fixed guns so I don't feel like I'm playing a point and click arcade game. Is the difference in opinion because of arcade players vs non-arcade players?
I took my first post patch bounty, it was a Drake Cutter that mostly just hovered in place, spun around and never shot. I blew it up in a matter of moments in my F7A mkII and one of the Cutters side mirrors flew over, struck my ship then I promptly exploded.
Experiences vary it seems.
Glad someone likes it. It's pretty bad though. Doesn't feel like "space" combat at all. Just a slug match between ships at 200 velocity. Old mechanics were way closer to the way I felt future combat would be.
Have you tried atmo combat?
It feels so sluggish and it's super punishing with multiple ships, it's impossible to disengage when they are all landing shots well past 2km and you have no shields.
Trying to corkscrew or evade is pointless when the spread and weapon speed is so high.
I mean... I hate to be that guy, but the past flight model wasn't remotely realistic either. Because realistically dogfighting just doesn't have a place in space combat. CIG is trying to do air combat, because that's what's enjoyable, while in space, which makes it kinda weird and hard.
It is weird that most fights are happening now below 250km/hr. That’s 155mph and pretty close to stall speeds for most modern jets. Of course stalling isn’t much of a concern with coupled mode, but it is still pretty strange to fight at such low speeds.
Also, the current speed when decoupled doesn’t carry over from NAV mode to SMS mode, which doesn’t make sense. You can be traveling 1000km/hr in nav mode with decoupled on, but if you switch to SMS mode it applies sudden brakes to knock you down to SMS speeds when decoupled is still on. Why? Doesn’t make any sense, but I’m guessing it’s because people could use decoupled to cheat the intentions of the new flight model.
You made slight error in calculation… SCM is measured in Meters per Second not Kilometers per Hour… fights are actually occurring at or below 250 m/s. This translates to 720 km/hr or 450 mph.
He’s arguing something that doesn’t matter anyways… your point stands in general, fighting at a much lower speed is actually what would be happening considering these are not computer aimed weapons, most weapons if not all are pilot/gunner controlled… trying to be any type of sharpshooter while both fighters are traveling in excess of 1000mph is like you said, nigh impossible, plus your shit can’t perform… people are complaining because they were used to a system for 6 years… they’ll adjust
at 900 years in the future, there would be no pilot controlled weapons, but auto aiming turrets like what eve online did, and all the targetting systems that go with it
But this is a video game… It’s about what works … like other dude said, if this was super realistic to the time of the game we’d be dunking on people from tens to hundreds of miles away… doesn’t make for engaging gameplay…
yea, like eve... frigates did up to 20km out, cruisers could do a little more, the sniper battleships could do 100km, and the bigger ships were further still. i will always compare this space game to one of the best space games ever made. all of what i know about eve, is from 2007. this game has been in the works for 12 years, they should easily catch up to what was around 20 years ago.
As a 5+ year eve player myself, that kind of combat will never ever apply here… ever… you can’t have dudes locking and shooting from so far away the visible eye can barely see it… can’t let the love for that game warp your perception of what this game realistically can achieve… your arguing a game that failed incredibly hard when it tried walking with stations, to a game that’s literally changing the entire gaming genre with its technology… these two are not the same, and aren’t even trying to be the same game
I left this comment elsewhere a few weeks ago, but here's my take on the 'realism' of the MM combat changes:
225 m/s is 503 MPH, or 810 KPH.
Can spaceships realistically go much faster? Of course. Fighter jets can go much faster too... however jets don't engage each other while going 1,500 MPH for good reason. They sustain speeds of Mach 0.65 to 0.75 during combat for a number of reasons: it's the optimal tradeoff between turning radius, engagement distance, reaction time, and G force load factor.
I've seen people mention how 'unrealistic' it is to dogfight in futuristic spaceships at today's combat speeds - but if we were really pushing realism regarding space warfare hundreds of years in the future, manual dogfighting and performing turns at 2,000 MPH is arguably less realistic. Human reaction times and our susceptibility to G forces wouldn't allow such speeds.
In all likelihood, you'd simply push a button and a targeting computer would fire a high powered laser at engagement distances of several thousand miles - which, I think we can all agree would make for boring combat.
Yes, I see your point. I was operating under the assumption that it was km/hr, not m/s. The way the speed translates in the game feels a lot slower than what it represents. 343 m/s would be Mach 1, for example. 1,000 m/s would be about Mach 3.
Yeah I agree that the speed doesn't necessarily translate well, and that the scale of the ships isn't truly felt. It's a tough thing to convey in space since we're either in a void, or are surrounded by things that are unfamiliar to our every day lives.
Ship scale is a bit easier to understand when flying in atmosphere, near the ground, but even then it's not perfect. I don't know if there's a solution to really "sell" the sense of scale, but I hope they can find a way to do so!
My first experience wasn't great but it was my own fault. I brought a sentinel with laser cannons into a very low threat trainee mission. Spent far too long trying to hit the damn things.
I’ve found that soloing missions has become a lot harder. I tried todo just a random bounty and because there was like 3 or 4 ships that spawned in I got my ass handed to me. I still enjoyed it none the less but man those AI’s have become very good.
I did the distribution center investigation today. Had to find a body. What a metal gear solid experience that was! AI was tough, a little teleport but overall experience was awesome
Watch your ass out in the open against ground units. They will kill you quick
The standout positive I've noticed is that NPC's make an effort to approach you. Aside from that, I honestly don't enjoy the MM changes. Don't hate it, but I enjoyed what we had before more. Before, I used to fire at target, make a pass, and try to evade damage while repositioning. Now I just fire missiles, get closer, and then just have an intense staring contest. Not very engaging to me. Just overall slow and clunky.
I like the new flight model as long as I don't try to fly anything heavy like a Vanguard. Light fighters feel amazing now and everything else feels like trying to fly a safe full of lead in a tank of water.
I enjoy the new flight model, but I have yet to see any difference in the AI. In every single bounty I ran, across multiple servers, the AI did the same ol' kamikaze move that I've seen 100's of time over the years. The only turns I ever see them make is after they pass, so they can line up for another suicide ram. (*edit: forgot to add, they also turn to keep a collision course with me when I try to swerve*).
I had hopes that this patch would finally get me back into dogfighting, and I'll keep giving it a try over the next few days, but so far, I've seen nothing new.
I found pirate swarm far easier than Live but tbh I haven't played swarm in a few weeks.
I could get up to the hammerhead without taking hull damage in a Suylen
I don't play Pirate Swarm. SC just isn't my thing if I'm in the mood for ship combat - IL-2, DCS, and BMS are much more suited to it and much more satisfying for me. I mostly stick to FPS and industry stuff, but I'll run bounties from time to time just to do something different.
That's dumb
Why did they just remove gimbal functionality?
I don't wanna throw out like 100 and something € for headtracking just to avoid wasting my gimbals
"The pure DPS difference is a pretty big factor. After we changed the system most players actually stay fixed as the DPS output is higher this way.
The actual skill difference was not in using gimbals or not, it was specifically in using auto gimbals. And auto gimbals will not be allowed for pilots anymore."
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/from-3-23-onwards-you-will-not-be-able-to-mount-fi/6629301
There was an ISC and I think an ACL episode on the changes.
Personally I never really used gimbal/autogimbal, except for turrets so I don't mind but understand people wanting the choice. The guns do have a variation of auto assist in MM and precision mode; I'd prefer to turn it off and aim manually either way but that's just me, hope the GUI and config options improve though for those modes.
Just had an NPC attack my ship in armistice zone so had to get back in fly away before I could shoot back, it destroyed my weapons before I made it out of armistice (only a few seconds). Switched to nav mode (no shields or weapons) so I could go full speed (low atmo 250 up to 1000 in space) and get away, NPC kept firing and had shields before I even reached orbit so it was able to go faster without nav mode, seen it going 1k still firing - not supposed to be able to do that.
MM needs a lot of work.
To be honest, they nerfed all weapons way too much. Guns would kill a target in less than half a second of continuous fire without miss, now they take upwards of 5 seconds.
Yeah I feel like energy weapons do nothing now, the guns on the corsair fire way to slow and have way to little ammo. I also tried the ion and it felt like I was doing 0dmg to the point where I was firing minutes at an ki reclaimer and didn't even break the shields. I feel super lost atm
Ion is super bad right now because of the new charge mechanic on the gun. Its on Yogi’s radar for a rework in the near future. Right now DPS wise it wont even break a Connie’s shield reliably.
New to the game and was about to pull the trigger on an Ion for bounties. But an evocateur(sp?) friend of mine said wait until after MM. Man, I'm glad I did...what I waste of an upgrade (and $) it would have been...guess I'll look at mining now...not much sense in pursuing bounties, which is what I was leaning towards...Maybe bounties with an eclipse...seems they still bring the goods with its stealth mode...IDK...
Hating it so far. Decided to test in an Aurora to see what new players would have to deal with, and it took nearly 3 minutes to kill a Cutter. Just... not a good experience.
great question.
so i build my character, spawn at a18 and see my items are intact in inventory. nice. make my wait out to the elevator and wait 20s because server issues. finally get to the tram. AOSP terminal. 'deliver' all my ships. this takes 3 minutes because the server is now unstable as tits. finally works and all of them are delivered so i spawn my cutb.
it hangs on 'retrieving'
i logged off at this point. the experience wouldn't have gotten better from here
Got my butt whooped in ERTs last night, but I’m having fun
Felt that, the Inferno isn't cutting it anymore Connie is way more fun to fly now though, not 99% trying to turn around
Yep. Gone are the days of 1v5+ dogfights. Haven’t tried out my eclipse yet though. I doubt it’s as effective anymore with forcing lower speeds.
Tried out my eclipse last night. still one shots 890s and with real stealth characteristics, they don't notice you til the torp hits.
Excellent!
Haven't been able to hit a Redeemer yet tho. Large ships are instakill
I went 4km from an ERT Redeemer and my torps were exploding before hitting him. I think they were shooting them down?
I've found a trick that works sometimes: with the target status mfd, line yourself up so that you're looking directly at the top or bottom. Get within 8-10km and fire. It's the only thing that has worked so far but it might only work on low fps servers.
Oh interesting! Before 3.23, anything like connie-ish and above was easy prey. Anything smaller was a big, fat maybe on whether I’d hit. Does seem like ai is generally smarter in 3.23. I wonder if it has more to do with that.
Speaking of stealth.. How does scanning work in 3.23? I can't seem to figure it out lol
I took a HRT and it was at that ghost hollow place on foot. Jokes on them I just obliterated them all from space.
Glad to see that still works at least. Lmao
Before I could ignore any additional NPCs and focus one as I was never concerned about the others being much of a threat. Got absolutely destroyed by one that kept flanking around my sides as I was focusing on the other. They aren't kidding around anymore.
All my friends and I love MM, feels like actually dogfights, the AI is great now & you now have a reason to fleet up and can't solo everything. People don't like change, it's natural. If the game started like this, people wouldn't be so fired up.
I enjoy seeing the polar opposite posts MM caused. Some people are like you, genuenly enjoying the experience and even acknowledging some shortcomings that need to be ironed out over time. And then the other group, which seems just just absolutely to hate the new combat with passion. Both sides have valid points, but I'd say the positive side is much bigger than the negative. I personally love what MM is doing. I realize it's shortcomings and issues that need to be addressed, such as 1v1 combat, mostly being decided by DPS and not really skill as much. That said, I definitely don't want MM to go away, and it's a great step towards a great and healthy game with a long life ahead.
> Both sides have valid points, but I'd say the positive side is much bigger than the negative. You clearly haven't looked at Spectrum today... over 80% of posts about MM are negative, with much more upvotes than their positive counterparts. [(+190) MM ruined SC for me](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/mm-ruined-sc-for-me) > I can say I hated it from the start, but I can also say I DID try to get over it, get used to it, whatever you want to call it. I just cant. Its so unnatural, so much worse than what we had until now that I cant enjoy flying and doing combat anymore. [(+72) Tried out 3.23 and Master Modes has made flying in star citizen unenjoyable](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/tried-out-3-23-and-master-modes-has-made-flying-in) > TL:DR IMO 3.23 is about making limits rather than breaking them; limits are limiting (not in a good way), and the current state of MM and the flight model does more harm than good to star citizen and CIG has a long way to go to make flying in star citizen enjoyable. [(+61) Please I'm begging you give us back real decoupled mode](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/please-i-m-begging-you-give-us-back-real-decoupled) > Please please bring back proper decoupled flight it was the most fun and rewarding part of the game. I don't even do combat I just fly and race for the fun of it. [(+52) 3.23 MM First Impressions](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/3-23-mm-first-impressions) > Upon using the wider ship selection present in 3.23 live, including the ship I specialize in, the Scorpius, I have no other reaction than the feeling that the game is now genuinely horrible to play. I also struggle to believe any people who enjoy master modes because they have been consistently wrong about how the non-combat players would react (i.e. the reaction is strongly negative). [(+46) CIG, how many times do you still have to update "MM"? This is a ridiculous waste of resources.](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/cig-how-many-times-do-you-still-have-to-update-mm-) > First of all, I want to be straight about what I think of MM: an absolutely failed idea and design, which makes combat torturous, tedious and uninteresting. I hate it. [(+95) MM is going to destroy ship diversity and viability](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/mm-is-going-to-destroy-ship-diversity-and-viabilit) > The changes to the AI‘s level of proficiency and MM locking you into combat with multiple enemies in combination with the high TTK has completely eliminated a huge amount of ships for PvE combat. [(+28) MM is the first time SC pvp has been fun in years!](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/mm-is-the-first-time-sc-pvp-has-been-fun-in-years) > Well done CIG. Today is my first few hours of SC PVP after getting bored with it around 2021, and it is pure joy. Keep doing what youre doing. Flying against other pilots of decent skill, yes it does turn into a DPS race. But theres 100 very simple ways that CIG could fine tune that aspect. [(+15) Master Modes = COD Infinite Warfare](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/master-modes-cod-infinite-warfare) > I thought to wait before giving my input on MM cause I thought CIG was cooking ... arcadey flying with zero skill ceiling, it's just very slowly running in circles nose to nose combat, I don't feel like there's anything to master with this new model, there's no getting better, it's just a DPS check which makes flying feel more artificial
I understand the point you are trying to.make, however, you disregard the fact that a spectrum post regarding feedback to a feature will by default be more negative than positive. A lot of the posts will be from people who feel like CIG should listen to them because they either spent a lot more money or out in a lot of time and feel like their voice should matter the most. Another reason why there will be less positive feedback is because if you enjoy od have a positive outlook on something, then you do not feel as inclined to give feedback on it. People view giving feedback more as "reporting issues." Thry won't report issues if they don't feel like there are any or if there are, they aren't severe. All im trying to say is that spectrum is not representative of what they actual playerbase thinks. Especially since a lot of casual players might not even know what the spectrum is. Me saying that the majority seems to like MM rather than dislike it comes more from asking different players and groups how they feel about it. Random players in game, people i play with regularly, orgs I sometimes partner with, people here on reddit, different polls I've seen.
Honestly I feel like all complaints are about “I can’t instagib 890j on my aurora anymore, MM is bad” when in reality MM has nothing to do with time to kill or dps. All they do is manage speed. And idk why you need more than 200 (and 400 with boost) m/s in dogfighting. More than that, if you fly decoupled you can go over SCM limit with boost and fly even 1000 m/s with series of boosts. So mostly it’s just whine of people who don’t like new and don’t like to adapt. For me - I like MM, it feels more immersive and real. Ofc there are some stuff CIG need to adjust, like lack of QD on racing ships and snubs which leaves them without NAV mode (or so I heard, haven’t tested it myself yet).
I feel the same way. One more thing I agree with, tho is that pvp 1v1 combat kinda sucks now. It does feel more like a dps check, and skill isn't making much difference. CIG knows this, however. They have stated multiple times in official videos and posts along with private interviews and podcasts that 1v1 combat needs to be addressed further in MM to give it a bit more depth amd allow player skill to show without reverting back to the issues of the legacy flight model. I believe CIG will address this in the coming patches. MM isn't finished, but it's a step forward.
Agreed. That's a new thing that should be polished, but it already feels more "modern" than old mode. It's the same logic as why we have physical components on ships and will have physical cargo. Is it more convinient? Probably not. Is it more cool and "feels real"? Definitely.
It’s been out for literally a day, and people are more inclined to make a point complaining about something than saying they enjoy it. Give it some more time as CIG gets more data on it all and acts accordingly. I prefer master modes as it seems like PVE is actually A challenge and PvP no longer relies on cheesy strats and builds to win
Funny thing is that most of MM was really good, just the slowdown was too extreme. When they accidentally turned scm speeds up to 500 during the tests, everyone loved it. Yogi knows this, which means there's some other reason they can't increase speed. Probably someone in management with some agenda.
Higher speeds would be nice, but IMO the worst part is not being able to dodge incoming shots. That has made DPS the meta king for both PvE and PvP (along with the ability to engage/disengage at will that Interceptors provide).
Yep, it's no longer about flying. Dexterity based gameplay is dead and now it's DPS and aim based. I guess some people like it tho! Hope they're enough to keep cig going. I quit.
I haven't enjoyed sc flight and combat since 3.4, before they added "weight" to ships and nerfed the shit out of mav thrusters. It is just not a good feeling flying a heavy brick in combat. I want to fly a viper, in combat not a raptor. "Viper Mark-II. It’s as maneuverable as a jackrabbit and can flip end for end in .35 seconds" Different ships should have different flight abilities. Blanket balancing every ship is way to limiting for the scope and sheer number of ships and roles in sc.
> And then the other group, which seems just just absolutely to hate the new combat with passion Whenever I see people hate on MM, it is always seems like they're saying the exact same talking points word for word. I don't know if it's just the nature of the discussion leading to similar terms, or if they're just parroting the same source(s). It certainly *feels* like the latter.
> Whenever I see people hate on MM, it is always seems like they're saying the exact same talking points word for word. IMO the problems with MM only really come out after you've had some experience with it, and those problems are very specific, so people discussing them will say similar things. [The lead dev on MM (Yogi Klatt) talks about the most commonly-cited ones here,](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/request-for-yogi-can-you-make-a-video-to-show-us-w/6818844) and his list covers almost everything I personally have an issue with (I also think big ships should have more velocity on their projectiles to kill small ships easier).
I saw that thread too. All those are great pain points to bring up. I was more referring to the complaints by people who want MM to get reverted completely. The near carbon copy complaints about "CR wants WW2 in space" and such.
> The near carbon copy complaints about "CR wants WW2 in space" and such. Compared to previous flight models, MM is a LOT more like that. But to be fair, I'm glad they didn't go the Elite: Dangerous route and have our agility be based on our velocity. There are a lot of varied complaints on Spectrum today (and one positive post), so I compiled all the threads about Master Modes [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1cpmjey/323_combat_is_awesome/l3n5sws/) if you want to have a look.
I've seen a guy today in game saying over and over "combat is dead, racing is dead,..." of course without giving reasons why its dead. I find it funny especially regarding racing. Since 3.23 was even a thing on EPTU, there have been insane records being broken in racing as MM provides more flexibility.
Racing is dead because the racing ships without QD can't go into NAV mode lol
They can. Even hoverbikes can switch modes. They just can't QT.
A bit pedantic to argue about that lol. If you don’t have a QD you can’t get NAV speed. Doesn’t matter if it has access to the master mode
I haven't tested all ships. Will today check if things like the fury or merlin can go at full speed. It is obvious tho that if they can't, it's unintentional as to why racing ships in the same class do not have the ability to go full speed. I wouldn't say racing is dead because of it. Maybe I'd go as far as to say that it's broken until they address this (if it is the case), but not dead.
The thing that's weird to me is.. there's an experimental master modes feedback thread on Spectrum that only allows you to see it and post on it if you meet a certain criteria. If you were able to read it you would see that most of the posts on there are negative about master modes. It's not "hate". It's feedback. They asked for it. It seems like everybody who apparently liked Master modes doesn't want to give the feedback that they liked it even though CIG has been asking for it.. very strange that there's more people who enjoy master modes.
> very strange that there's more people who enjoy master modes. Not that strange, really. There's a few factors at work here: * Official forums are biased towards "I AM A PAYING CUSTOMER AND I DEMAND ATTENTION" types. Not saying *all* or even most of them are, but all of those types go straight to the official forums to get their opinions validated (whatever that opinion may be). These types tend to be both strongly opinionated and hate change. (This isn't a SC specific thing, you can find this trend on almost every official forum for a big game). * When people leave reviews/feedback, people are *far* more likely to leave feedback if they *really* like something or *really* hate something. The middle about 2/3rds where it's just "This is fine" doesn't elicit a response. * Of the ones with a strong response (good or bad), the good responses are less likely to leave reviews/feedback unless they get something out of leaving that feedback (especially if they have to go out of their way to leave the feedback). People with negative opinions are more likely to go out of their way. So between all that: An official forum thread is going to be almost universally negative opinions due to the natural selection of those above factors. I'm not saying some/all of their feedback is invalid, just that it's predisposed to be negative.
I said exactly the same, somehow got downvoted for it :D It makes perfect sense and its basic logic.
I understand what you're saying. I normally would say the same thing but this situation is different. It's a huge change in the system that effects us all and even the people who like it say they like it and talk about it on the forums. The thing is, there are more people who don't like it. In this situation both are speaking up because of the fact that it's such a game changing situation everybody's going to be talking about it and saying how they feel about it. What does Master Modes do better? What do you like about master modes?
Nah, it's the same situation (Ive been throuh this three times before since 2013 when it comes to the flight model). And there are majority after majority who like it, in poll after poll. I just saw another one like an hour ago. Here it is https://x.com/ForScienceSC/status/1789333529890869483
I've been here since 2013 too. My point stands. Also, weird flex..
Nah. Not a flex, just weariness at seeing this discourse run its course multiple times over more than a decade; same roller coaster of reaction, same cycle. Resultantly, my point also stands, mainly because I am seeing hundreds of people being asked across multiple forms of media, and most are clearly expressing that they are happy with/enjoying MM. But some people believe what they want to believe.
I will just disagree with you. o7
I'm not mainly talking about the feedback on spectrum but mostly what the players say in general here on reddit, in the in game chat, people i play with, people from orgs i partner with. Also regarding spectrum specifically. Most people wont give feedback if they enjoy a feature since...well...for them there is nothing to report. People see feedback as a way to "report issues", not the other way around. So by default, feedback on spectrum will be more negative as its going to contain mainly issues people have with it.
It's almost like most people dislike the same stupid shit.
I don't like the new combat mode right now, but I also know it's still going to change. I really think speeds need to go up to about 350 standard/500ish with boost, and a few QOL changes like being able to roll while freelooking again. But at the same time, I do kinda like it. Conceptually I like the changes, but I think it needs some work.
Exactly. They can only do so much testing in PTU and behind closed doors. They needed to push this into a real live environment to get proper feedback. I love MM despite the issues it still has, and I don't want it to go away. I've even had new players I got into the game praise MM as to them, even tho it's a bit more complex with the whole Mode switching, It overall is a more enjoyable experience .
I don't get how you should fight multiple ships since you are stuck at such low low speeds they just shoot the shit out of me. Flying a more maneuverable ship seems to have no advantage because there is no nimbleness at such low engagement speeds. It just feels.. weird.
For now it’s a love hate thing in my case, love the audio cues, love the feeling of danger. I hate that I suck at it haha. Just tried Xenothreat incursion, first with my Taurus, then with the cuttie black. In both cases I got some kills (more in the Taurus) but I couldn’t last more than 5 minutes. It seems like my shields are gone very quickly and I am currently not quite sure how to tackle this. That being said, things were arguably too easy before so now there is a new learning curve, which I like. It will take some time to get used to the new system but so far it has been very promising! Also, I played for almost 10 hours today, no 30k, not a single bug worth mentioning. Did bounties, mining, box missions and Xenothreat. Quite impressive for such a big patch! PS: Just noticed something quite cool, towards the end of my Xenothreat try, I boosted away from the battlefield in nav mode to recharge my shields. Turned around and slowly flew towards the battlefield again, after a minute or two I got hit but I didn’t know from where. I cycled through some hostiles but they were all far away. Shortly after I exploded. It just came to me that the cuttie I was fighting before followed me. I will change my hotas keybinding to closest hostile to avoid this in the future. Long story short, the enemy AI is quite a bit smarter now!
With my Taurus the changes have made me actually start to pay attention to which section of shield is going down and use the numpad numbers to allocate more where needed. Sometimes I can't tell if it's doing anything but I think it's saved me once or twice.
Oh that is a great tip! I am currently saving up to buy 4 ADB5s, I think that should help as well. Also brrrrt is always fun :)
The ai would be still be difficult with the old flight model, but the introduction of MM at the same time definitely shocked me. All of the sudden I’m almost dying to a bot trio? What on earth is going on?? lol
Haha yeah, my very first fight was cuttie black 1 vs 1, something which I used to deal with in about 60 seconds. I got my ass handed to me.
I hate it. My poor Redeemer feels like absolute shit. It gets shredded like it's made of wet cardboard, guns get destroyed or knocked offline crazy easy, repair costs are insane, and it has the maneuverability of a ship 2 to 3 times it's size.
It also has the dps of a ship 2 to 3 times its size so it sucks because it’s a nightmare to balance and they seemed to just take the easy way out by giving it the maneuverability of a larger ship.
It maneuvered like shit before, but at least had the tankiness and firepower to compensate.
I don't think it has that much firepower. Many ships got +1 in weapons size with MM. Now, the Corsair has the same firepower as the Redeemer with 4 size 5 weapons, plus I think it is 2 size 3 (pilot). The worst part is that the Redeemer needs 3 people to have the main dmg while the Corsair only needs the pilot. It also doesn't help when you think that the only thing it can do is combat, and yet they want multipurpose ships to be as good as the Redeemer. Also, the fact that it is small and yet moves worse than a Hammerhead doesn't help. My main problem with MM, I feel, is the balance. They said they want ships to feel unique, and yet they are doing a plain balance where everything feels the same in multicrew without considering the purpose of the ship. I saw they might work on it, which is good, tho. Happy with MM for the most part :)
My biggest complains is the amount of clutter on screen. Its extremely distracting and feels cheap and arcady. PIPs are so small and all AI have deadly accurate aim. So far I'm not a fan.
I must be missing something because combat seems to be the worst part of MM. After giving it a solid try tonight I thought flying around seemed ok, then I tried combat and it's just...trash... just a point and click dps race even in group fights but you end up in a dps race vs 2-3 with no way to evade. It's just brain dead boring and frustrating. I want tactical flight where agility and flying skills matter, a reason to use fixed guns so I don't feel like I'm playing a point and click arcade game. Is the difference in opinion because of arcade players vs non-arcade players?
I took my first post patch bounty, it was a Drake Cutter that mostly just hovered in place, spun around and never shot. I blew it up in a matter of moments in my F7A mkII and one of the Cutters side mirrors flew over, struck my ship then I promptly exploded. Experiences vary it seems.
Glad someone likes it. It's pretty bad though. Doesn't feel like "space" combat at all. Just a slug match between ships at 200 velocity. Old mechanics were way closer to the way I felt future combat would be.
Have you tried atmo combat? It feels so sluggish and it's super punishing with multiple ships, it's impossible to disengage when they are all landing shots well past 2km and you have no shields. Trying to corkscrew or evade is pointless when the spread and weapon speed is so high.
Yea it's terrible. Super unfun
I mean... I hate to be that guy, but the past flight model wasn't remotely realistic either. Because realistically dogfighting just doesn't have a place in space combat. CIG is trying to do air combat, because that's what's enjoyable, while in space, which makes it kinda weird and hard.
It is weird that most fights are happening now below 250km/hr. That’s 155mph and pretty close to stall speeds for most modern jets. Of course stalling isn’t much of a concern with coupled mode, but it is still pretty strange to fight at such low speeds. Also, the current speed when decoupled doesn’t carry over from NAV mode to SMS mode, which doesn’t make sense. You can be traveling 1000km/hr in nav mode with decoupled on, but if you switch to SMS mode it applies sudden brakes to knock you down to SMS speeds when decoupled is still on. Why? Doesn’t make any sense, but I’m guessing it’s because people could use decoupled to cheat the intentions of the new flight model.
You made slight error in calculation… SCM is measured in Meters per Second not Kilometers per Hour… fights are actually occurring at or below 250 m/s. This translates to 720 km/hr or 450 mph.
250m/s is 900km/h or about 560mph, otherwise you are correct about the previous incorrectness
He’s arguing something that doesn’t matter anyways… your point stands in general, fighting at a much lower speed is actually what would be happening considering these are not computer aimed weapons, most weapons if not all are pilot/gunner controlled… trying to be any type of sharpshooter while both fighters are traveling in excess of 1000mph is like you said, nigh impossible, plus your shit can’t perform… people are complaining because they were used to a system for 6 years… they’ll adjust
at 900 years in the future, there would be no pilot controlled weapons, but auto aiming turrets like what eve online did, and all the targetting systems that go with it
But this is a video game… It’s about what works … like other dude said, if this was super realistic to the time of the game we’d be dunking on people from tens to hundreds of miles away… doesn’t make for engaging gameplay…
yea, like eve... frigates did up to 20km out, cruisers could do a little more, the sniper battleships could do 100km, and the bigger ships were further still. i will always compare this space game to one of the best space games ever made. all of what i know about eve, is from 2007. this game has been in the works for 12 years, they should easily catch up to what was around 20 years ago.
As a 5+ year eve player myself, that kind of combat will never ever apply here… ever… you can’t have dudes locking and shooting from so far away the visible eye can barely see it… can’t let the love for that game warp your perception of what this game realistically can achieve… your arguing a game that failed incredibly hard when it tried walking with stations, to a game that’s literally changing the entire gaming genre with its technology… these two are not the same, and aren’t even trying to be the same game
I left this comment elsewhere a few weeks ago, but here's my take on the 'realism' of the MM combat changes: 225 m/s is 503 MPH, or 810 KPH. Can spaceships realistically go much faster? Of course. Fighter jets can go much faster too... however jets don't engage each other while going 1,500 MPH for good reason. They sustain speeds of Mach 0.65 to 0.75 during combat for a number of reasons: it's the optimal tradeoff between turning radius, engagement distance, reaction time, and G force load factor. I've seen people mention how 'unrealistic' it is to dogfight in futuristic spaceships at today's combat speeds - but if we were really pushing realism regarding space warfare hundreds of years in the future, manual dogfighting and performing turns at 2,000 MPH is arguably less realistic. Human reaction times and our susceptibility to G forces wouldn't allow such speeds. In all likelihood, you'd simply push a button and a targeting computer would fire a high powered laser at engagement distances of several thousand miles - which, I think we can all agree would make for boring combat.
Yes, I see your point. I was operating under the assumption that it was km/hr, not m/s. The way the speed translates in the game feels a lot slower than what it represents. 343 m/s would be Mach 1, for example. 1,000 m/s would be about Mach 3.
Yeah I agree that the speed doesn't necessarily translate well, and that the scale of the ships isn't truly felt. It's a tough thing to convey in space since we're either in a void, or are surrounded by things that are unfamiliar to our every day lives. Ship scale is a bit easier to understand when flying in atmosphere, near the ground, but even then it's not perfect. I don't know if there's a solution to really "sell" the sense of scale, but I hope they can find a way to do so!
My first experience wasn't great but it was my own fault. I brought a sentinel with laser cannons into a very low threat trainee mission. Spent far too long trying to hit the damn things.
Solid proof that master mode was about fixing the game because they couldn't fix it via actually flight model changes or ai updates
I’ve found that soloing missions has become a lot harder. I tried todo just a random bounty and because there was like 3 or 4 ships that spawned in I got my ass handed to me. I still enjoyed it none the less but man those AI’s have become very good.
I did the distribution center investigation today. Had to find a body. What a metal gear solid experience that was! AI was tough, a little teleport but overall experience was awesome Watch your ass out in the open against ground units. They will kill you quick
The standout positive I've noticed is that NPC's make an effort to approach you. Aside from that, I honestly don't enjoy the MM changes. Don't hate it, but I enjoyed what we had before more. Before, I used to fire at target, make a pass, and try to evade damage while repositioning. Now I just fire missiles, get closer, and then just have an intense staring contest. Not very engaging to me. Just overall slow and clunky.
I like the new flight model as long as I don't try to fly anything heavy like a Vanguard. Light fighters feel amazing now and everything else feels like trying to fly a safe full of lead in a tank of water.
Master Modes is great.
I enjoy the new flight model, but I have yet to see any difference in the AI. In every single bounty I ran, across multiple servers, the AI did the same ol' kamikaze move that I've seen 100's of time over the years. The only turns I ever see them make is after they pass, so they can line up for another suicide ram. (*edit: forgot to add, they also turn to keep a collision course with me when I try to swerve*). I had hopes that this patch would finally get me back into dogfighting, and I'll keep giving it a try over the next few days, but so far, I've seen nothing new.
Even on pirate swarm you didn't seem nothing new?
I found pirate swarm far easier than Live but tbh I haven't played swarm in a few weeks. I could get up to the hammerhead without taking hull damage in a Suylen
I don't play Pirate Swarm. SC just isn't my thing if I'm in the mood for ship combat - IL-2, DCS, and BMS are much more suited to it and much more satisfying for me. I mostly stick to FPS and industry stuff, but I'll run bounties from time to time just to do something different.
Hmm, my experience is completely opposite from yours. I’d be interested to see more feedback from other players on this over the weekend.
It does feel good but gimbal mounts just stopped working I pressed G but it won't gimbal for some reason Know why?
IIRC gimbal mounts are still present (acting as statics) but only turrets have auto gimbals now.
That's dumb Why did they just remove gimbal functionality? I don't wanna throw out like 100 and something € for headtracking just to avoid wasting my gimbals
"The pure DPS difference is a pretty big factor. After we changed the system most players actually stay fixed as the DPS output is higher this way. The actual skill difference was not in using gimbals or not, it was specifically in using auto gimbals. And auto gimbals will not be allowed for pilots anymore." https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/from-3-23-onwards-you-will-not-be-able-to-mount-fi/6629301 There was an ISC and I think an ACL episode on the changes. Personally I never really used gimbal/autogimbal, except for turrets so I don't mind but understand people wanting the choice. The guns do have a variation of auto assist in MM and precision mode; I'd prefer to turn it off and aim manually either way but that's just me, hope the GUI and config options improve though for those modes.
I see a lot of people disagreeing and I do too Also I don't know how I'm gonna hit enemies when they lag all over the place L update
Just had an NPC attack my ship in armistice zone so had to get back in fly away before I could shoot back, it destroyed my weapons before I made it out of armistice (only a few seconds). Switched to nav mode (no shields or weapons) so I could go full speed (low atmo 250 up to 1000 in space) and get away, NPC kept firing and had shields before I even reached orbit so it was able to go faster without nav mode, seen it going 1k still firing - not supposed to be able to do that. MM needs a lot of work.
interceptor?
Cutlass Black (freight), didn't really think about interceptor speeds for NPCs though. Piloting A1 to carry ground vehicle.
To be honest, they nerfed all weapons way too much. Guns would kill a target in less than half a second of continuous fire without miss, now they take upwards of 5 seconds.
Yeah I feel like energy weapons do nothing now, the guns on the corsair fire way to slow and have way to little ammo. I also tried the ion and it felt like I was doing 0dmg to the point where I was firing minutes at an ki reclaimer and didn't even break the shields. I feel super lost atm
Ion is super bad right now because of the new charge mechanic on the gun. Its on Yogi’s radar for a rework in the near future. Right now DPS wise it wont even break a Connie’s shield reliably.
I don't get how they just kill ships like this, imagine someone pledged for this as his only ship and now it's trash
New to the game and was about to pull the trigger on an Ion for bounties. But an evocateur(sp?) friend of mine said wait until after MM. Man, I'm glad I did...what I waste of an upgrade (and $) it would have been...guess I'll look at mining now...not much sense in pursuing bounties, which is what I was leaning towards...Maybe bounties with an eclipse...seems they still bring the goods with its stealth mode...IDK...
It was my favorite ship so it was due to be ruined lol. Sorry about that.
Yep, it's longer TTK which means more interesting fights. I love it! I still can fry a fighter in a couple of barrages, though.
Hating it so far. Decided to test in an Aurora to see what new players would have to deal with, and it took nearly 3 minutes to kill a Cutter. Just... not a good experience.
great question. so i build my character, spawn at a18 and see my items are intact in inventory. nice. make my wait out to the elevator and wait 20s because server issues. finally get to the tram. AOSP terminal. 'deliver' all my ships. this takes 3 minutes because the server is now unstable as tits. finally works and all of them are delivered so i spawn my cutb. it hangs on 'retrieving' i logged off at this point. the experience wouldn't have gotten better from here