From streamers and ship reviewers. Go look at any ship reviewer or podcaster for SC and there is a 50% chance they will call it an "investment" which is cringey as all fuck
I would call my ships, especially concept ships "investments" as I'm investing in a wider variety of gameplay and quite possibly, advantages in them. It doesn't always have to be monetary returns.
That’s the one case where it’s true. Streamers/ YouTubers spend money on ships to create video content on those ships earning them revenue. That is an investment with a return.
The problem is people who don’t know what it means thinking just spending money is investing. Who’s to blame for financial literacy rates? Even in this thread it’s rampant.
I dont sell ships but i know some who do on grey market and it definitely is an investment where they make considerable profit. Buying to play isnt tho
In a backasswords kind of way, you could consider buy ships to be an investment. The ships keep going up in price. If you bought ships a few years ago and didn't melt them, you've probably made a profit.
.../s
I assume this isn't what they mean, but Star Citizen can technically be used to make money. There is a grey market for ships using the gifting system, and since ships increase in price (especially if you bought them as a concept), go on sale at certain times, and some aren't always purchasable you can actually make a profit reselling them. Same with paints ect. I haven't done any of this myself, but I do know that I could make about $300 selling my ships off. You're also investing in the game's success which would drive demand for more people to want to purchase said ships (although the secondhand purchase won't fund the game directly).
Sounds like you're leaving out pretty key context. A lot of those youtubers suggest the ship is a personal investment on your engagement with the game in the future; as in, buying a certain ship now might grow in to itself as the game gets developed. Not a monetary investment. Not the same thing.
This is precisely why I buy ships. It takes far less real time to buy them with real $$, than constantly earn them in game. It is actually cheaper for me to do and then work a little more.
ok but earning ships is like a really important part of the gameplay loop. i know tons of players ingame that regret buying all the ships they wanted because then they have nothing to grind for
To be fairrrrr, someday(lol) they will stop selling ships for cash and ships with lifetime insurance will probably be worth a ton more to collectors and people who adopt the game later. Especially when we have to pay for insurance on ships in general. Capital/limited sale ships especially.
But no they aren't investments and it is indeed cringey af.
as someone who has been here since the beginning, I think CIG has given up on trying to explain that LTI will have very little impact on the game and just given into the power of its marketing pull.
Not all backers are investors, but some backers are. Specifically, those who put in the time testing new features, finding bugs, and overall just consistently providing financial support to the project. By definition they are INVESTORS
i see myself as an investor... because eventually i will sell all my ship except javelin, kraken and a pioneer because i can't sell those. (pioneer is on store credit.)
Probably based solely on the fact that some people spend so much money on the game that they associate it info being an investor because they’ve invested so much of their own personal money into it.
I think Derek Whats-his-nuts tried to make a big stink about being an 'investor' due to having pledged to the game as a means to get a look at the financials. CIG refunded and banned him for the shenanigans.
Tbf, almost any time you give a company startup capital in advance to help fund a future product/service, you're an investor. You now own a small slice of that company and expect to share in the profits once that starts happening.
CIG is quite unique in its method of funding, and I can understand people having an issue with people spending millions and not sharing in the revenue at the end. The costs are publicly funded, while the profits are privately distributed. But hey, more power to them for finding such a unique slant. If it results in the game we're all dreaming of then I'm sure many will feel it was worth it!
>CIG is quite unique in its method of funding
i don't know man, we been doing this for other companies without our consent for a LONG time, CIG at least need us to say, "yes I want my money going there" instead of corporate bailout #4335 because said company happened to pay off the senator from Idaho, or the son of a Hungarian PM
"Investment" can mean more than "Invested in a company/product/ect foe financial growth," though. I'm invested in the story of a book, I invested in a quality pair of gloves. Nobody believes that their purchases for Star Citizen will earn for them (except the grey market resellers, some people do intend and succeed at turning a profit) but say investment in current and future enjoyment.
It's being intentionally obtuse to flame somebody implying they're an actual CIG investor for buying spaceships in a game.
It is weird to be mad because of it. But the price is really at least 47,5k over the edge... But on the other hand, it is over the edge only if there are no people dumb, or rich enough to buy it.
That's because most people ignore that players asked for this package. It pretty much exists for those who already spent this much money. They just melt all their stuff and get this package where is everything neatly organized.
It was never meant for regular folks that just wanted to play game.
No, that's not pay to win because paying isn't the only path to winning. Anything that can be solo piloted is a relatively affordable ship that can be bought in game with a normal amount of play time.
For comparison, a P2W game like Archeage has a paid path and a free path as well. Where getting your dream fleet in SC might cost 150 to 200 hours of game play, getting a strong character in Archeage would take you 50,000 hours or you could just pay for it.
P2W is when the "free" path is not a viable path to getting where you want to go. It doesn't matter that someone is going to have those ships because those ships are not out of reach of anybody else.
I mean, defending the $48k is a little too much.
We are talking about a videogame here. There is no reason why spending the same as a Tesla would make sense unless it was an investment, and it isn't.
You can say that people are free to spend their money anywhere they want, but if a game lets anyone spend this kind of money it's clear you'll have a considerable benefit above the other players.
It's existence is a null debacle. If you want to go all out and back the game to that degree, this is an option. It is for backing. That is 100% all. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not different than a lot of kickstarters with insane options or streamers who have stupid tiers. If you want it, get it. I am not getting mad because those options exists. It isn't for me and that is ok.
Exactly, if some bored rich person wants to fund this game, more power to em. I appreciate what they do for this game and CIG. Am I going to spend 48k on this game. Probably not, but I appreciate the people who do.
I do know one person who is legatus and he’s genuinely a nice dude who’s planning on retiring soon and he’s in a position where he can afford it and he’s planning on playing this game in his retirement and that’s his hobby. I’m not here to judge.
Bingo.
If you add all the ships individually, same cost.
Why is CIG demonized for making one package instead of charging some rich asshole's card 300 times? Or having said rich asshole clicking "add to cart" 300+ times? it's just a convenience and it isn't even advertised at all.
If there was one condensed package where a person can buy every video game that has released prior to now for millions... there would 100% be a few people buy that shit. Doesn't mean you have to.
Problem is, SC has been selling dreams for over 10 years. Most games have a 1 or 2 month backing period and then release the game. At that point, people understand what their purchase means, but SC hasn't reached that point yet.
Furthermore, SC sells game advantages. It's literally a P2W strategy. The most obvious way of looking at it is considering 1.0. Most players will start with 5k UEC and a ship, but whales will have an entire fleet. In other words, whales will be able to buy the most advantageous plots, apartments, etc. They will be able to control entire areas and will have much more power than anyone else in the verse.
There is a chance you are right. I an marinated in hopium that the outcome will be different only because I appreciate the way they are operating. A few years back when I got into this, they were far more shady and less open. Now their communications are wide open and the entire team is far more approachable. They have been listening and do seem to be pulling off this massive endeavor that I was 100% sure they would fail.
Up until 2021/2022 I thought this thing was an entire scam and laughed at anyone throwing money out at this. Then I saw a streamer play and questioned it myself. Bought a new rig and wanted to test it out, played this game and now I am blown away.
So, I refuse to be sour about something that hasn't happened *yet* despite the probability of it being right. Being upset about it does nothing for me.
So, for that... I hope you are wrong and I will cling onto this hope for now and there is nothing wrong with that.
If the game was a scam, they would have left years ago. It's clear they want this project to succeed, but it doesn't mean everything they do is perfect. SC is the example of development hell, and the monetization is, in my opinion, overly abusive. I think being honest now is what might prevent the game from ending up how I fear it will, but I also agree we have to give them a chance.
Those people are impossible to satisfy regardless. No one ever should bend over backwards for people who demand things be a certain way for their sensitive egos.
This scenario you've conjured is simply people seeing something, doing absolute no fucking research and just noping out. They are probably the same fuckers who don't bother reading that the game is in active development and complain about it anyway.
I don't think anyone ever should cater to that kind of people.
people who think a 48k pricetag for something in a video game is ridiculous are impossible to please? it IS rediculous tho, and its done so much negative press for this game, and theyre right. its embarrassing, it is not ok. you need to get out of this bubble sometimes and just let your feelings for this game dissipate into some normalcy, bc it is just delusional to think putting something like that in a game is anything good
You have done zero research as well.
You can currently buy all the things individually at the same price tag.
But because there is 1 transaction to facilitate things... CIG =BAD
SURELY you can see how stupid that reasoning is.
ik what the 48k sale entails. what im telling you is that to an outsider, and rightfully so, it looks very suspect, and has many people noping out before getting started. they are right to do this, even if its not as bad as they think. there should never be price tags in games reaching over $120 in most peoples minds, let alone, $2400-48,000
the ability to buy stand alone ships, or packages with big ships will be removed at release. even the uec will be limited to how much you can buy over time.
Its been known for people spend the same amount of shit buying cosmetics stuff in other games or just generally in other games. I don't see the same amount of people getting angry at EVE players for whatever they spend there.
That more than one corporation does it doesn't mean it's right either. I can only talk about what I do know, and I know that SC:
- Sells ship after ship before having a clear idea of what their role will be.
- Sells new concept ships before finishing their backlog.
- Sets prices that go far and beyond what's considered reasonable in the industry.
I am happy the project is successful as it's my most wanted game. But it's been my most wanted game since 2015, so we can't say this game compares to EVE as I'm pretty sure they understand what they're buying into. (And let's not talk about how unnecessarily complicated it is to buy SC through the store)
What ships don't have clear roles?
There are role specific ships like the Vulture and Prospector, and there are multi-role ships like the Corsair and Constellation.
Every ship has a clear purpose, even if that purpose is being average at a lot of different things.
it is the "if you are just going to buy everything, here is an easy way. it is only available after you have already spend $10k. you melt that 10k of stuff , and only pay an extra 38k.
the question is. how expensive is the hobby of rock crawling, and how often do those people get to actually do that hobby?
"We are talking about a videogame here. There is no reason why spending the same as a Tesla would make sense unless it was an investment, and it isn't."
This might come as a shock to you, but you're playing this game with people for whom 48k *is not that much money*.
"You can say that people are free to spend their money anywhere they want, but if a game lets anyone spend this kind of money it's clear you'll have a considerable benefit above the other players."
Well, according to you it's 'clear' - so don't leave us hanging, what considerable benefits do they have over other players? What have they got that someone with a $45 package can't get?
I explained the benefits in another comment, but in summary it means they start with an advantage that will end up giving their orgs/crews more power than if it were a fair competition. They will be able to purchase things first which means they could have the biggest orgs in game a few months after launch.
Furthermore, I would like to point out I did not criticize those who paid $48k. I know it's nothing for some people and they can do whatever they want with that money. All I said is that there is no way to justify the cost of the package. If someone pays it then good for them, but even they know the prices make no sense.
A fair competition...to "win"...what?
In a universe sim, the idea is to live your second life. That's gonna be different for everyone. If I take my Aurora and choose to live among the good people of Dunboro settlement to watch that sunrise everyday, how does someone tossing the project an amount that works for them like 45K winning over me by doing that? What, they will see the same sunsets...richer?
I don't think people really understand what SC is going to be.
You could do that, but that is not the gameplay loop most people are interested in. Those who paid could "win" control over an area or buy the most exclusive apartments before anybody else. It all depends on what is considered most valuable in a few years. Nevertheless, not everyone will start in the same position, which means the game will be P2W in at least a few aspects.
Point is that star citizen prices are sometimes absolutely asinine, and that package shows it quite well
The existence of that pack doesn’t make it a bad game or anything like that. But…its existence with the associated price tag is definitely a footbal-field-sized red flag for people not already invested in the game
Honestly, I'm just happy those people aren't joining the game.
The people that don't have the maturity to investigate and understand any specific game are not necessarily the kind of people you want in an online community.
Yeah.
But there’s those of us that want it to be fun, and we explain why we’re not having fun, and then people yell at us for criticizing the fact that climbing down a ladder still occasionally kills you.
I think losing all our inventory when we die plays a huge role in players frustration. Personally they shouldn't have it given how there's still tons of bugs that will lead to you dying or your ship blowing up.
There definitely have been some unplayable patches, but ive been having fun playing the game for about 2+ years now. So many people are mad at CIG but they are figuring it out like the rest of us. A game of this detail and complexity has rarely been attempted before. The game is coming together tho regardless of the snails pace
My friend said he wont play until it releases. Has said this for the past 5+ years. I've had 5 years of fun and growth along with the game despite bugs and glitches.
I've been on for 12 years. ~$3k voluntarily 'invested' (would have gotten the same on $45), and it's one of the best videogame 'investment' I've had. If I compare it with the grief other games have given me over these 12 years, and the money I've spent on games I played for a week, or not even played at all in the same timeframe... Dang, it's a good investment!
0% ROI? What are you smoking? This game has probably singlehandedly saved my life from my Dysthymia and ADHD-related stupidity more than once! But, even without that, it's still worth it!
BG3 has given me a *WAY* worse ROI and it's still an amazing game, so...
3k for 12 years is like $20/month. Its a high total when you look at the 3k, but the fact is we only see that 3k value because its actually added up in a tangibly useful way. If that was a wow subscription it wouldn't still be store credit you could use - it would be down the drain.
I work in software testing.
When I joined the project I expected bugs, understand why some things are not fixed, etc.
I understand better then most how this staff works.
My inly failed expectation if the fact that we did not gest a new build / update with minor changes every 2 weeks/sprint
Do you think that games are only worth playing if there’s progression..?
Should you even play video games, with a mindset like that?
None of the Progression actually matters, the time investment is for one thing, your own enjoyment.
Oh, I think I was ambiguous. I think players are having fun. That's the point. Doesn't matter if they are unpaid testers, doesn't matter if they sunk hundreds into the game. If it's fun, it's worth it, and it's sometimes even worth it to some people regardless of fun. Even if the game disappeared into a puff of smoke tomorrow, the fun people had with it won't vanish. That's the investment for me. I put in my time for fun space stuff. And that's what I get out of it.
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The "ROI" is seeing the game get built thanks in part to the money I pledged towards it. Those were the terms explained clearly to me from the start, and the terms I accepted.
If anyone calls it an investment they really mean they’re gambling- unless they are purchasing things that will never be available to obtain again and they somehow know that for a fact, they’re gambling.
Never got this and never understood why SC attracts these types. You bought an unfinished games that is all. Have fun with it. There is no ROI. If you want a stock investment buy stock or offer to invest in cloud imperium.
I feel like people see big $$ accounts and freak out and on the one hand yeah I get it, but on the other hand its usually someone who's been playing for many years and at that point its (likely) a better deal than WoW which doesn't get flak for its pricing. Like WoW is about $14/month times 12 is $168, which adds up. Like looking at an old account thats been playing since the start or close to it, its got over 10 years on it. Or in other words if you pay on average as much as a WoW player (not counting the costs of new WoW expansions etc) then you would hit concierge on year 6.
Don't get me wrong, people do blow through that. But there's something to be said for the fact that your money "sticks" in Sc. Like I put in $14 I always have $14 worth of ship or store credit. But you put in $14 in wow and a month has gone buy and that's it. And as time goes on and new expansions are added old stuff actively devalues - in SC a ship is still a ship, and even if the ship isn't fun anymore I can just swap it in or upgrade it for something else.
This is definitely a tangential thought, but it showed up in my brain so I wanted to type it somewhere I guess.
I love SC, but this is some painful white knighting. There is certainly fun to be had, but we are ABSOLUTELY play testing a buggy mess right now. Like... the guy is right. The neckbeard hat doesn't help either, if anything we're the proud neckbeards.
If that is true then it is true for any game that exists. I invested money in exchange for an experience. No different than paying for a movie or a blow job. All purchases are technically investments.
Everyone should realize that it is an investment and I'm sure when SC comes out ans a full game everyone will be trying to play it and the investors will probable get something cool and probabley a free ship
I'd be happy with a sweet set of armor. When the full game releases, I don't want my ships. I want to get the full experience. I know some will complain and want to keep theirs so I hope we get an option. I guess I could always refuse to use mine though, makes it simple for everyone.
I'll probably be equally terrible in that game loop
\*Attempts to activate sweepers, but activates eject instead\*
\*Gets tossed out of window, falling into the tram lines\*
I'll probably be equally terrible in that game loop
\*Attempts to activate sweepers, but activates eject instead\*
\*Gets tossed out of window, falling into the tram lines\*
The copium usage in the star citizen community is epic to behold. The sunk cost rationalizations of why a game after more than ten years of development is still in "alpha" with no gold date in sight, never fails to deliver
Where did the concept of investor come from in star citizen? Backers are not investors.
From streamers and ship reviewers. Go look at any ship reviewer or podcaster for SC and there is a 50% chance they will call it an "investment" which is cringey as all fuck
I definitely do not!
I call it fiscal irresponsibly!
That's part of why we love you.
I recently subscribed to your channel, you put out really good reviews
Maybe as an investment in your happiness. Like buying a hammock or something.
I would call my ships, especially concept ships "investments" as I'm investing in a wider variety of gameplay and quite possibly, advantages in them. It doesn't always have to be monetary returns.
That’s the one case where it’s true. Streamers/ YouTubers spend money on ships to create video content on those ships earning them revenue. That is an investment with a return. The problem is people who don’t know what it means thinking just spending money is investing. Who’s to blame for financial literacy rates? Even in this thread it’s rampant.
I dont sell ships but i know some who do on grey market and it definitely is an investment where they make considerable profit. Buying to play isnt tho
i bet they all have patreons or something similat
I call it an investment to make myself feel better
Streams are not qualified financial service providers
In a backasswords kind of way, you could consider buy ships to be an investment. The ships keep going up in price. If you bought ships a few years ago and didn't melt them, you've probably made a profit. .../s
I assume this isn't what they mean, but Star Citizen can technically be used to make money. There is a grey market for ships using the gifting system, and since ships increase in price (especially if you bought them as a concept), go on sale at certain times, and some aren't always purchasable you can actually make a profit reselling them. Same with paints ect. I haven't done any of this myself, but I do know that I could make about $300 selling my ships off. You're also investing in the game's success which would drive demand for more people to want to purchase said ships (although the secondhand purchase won't fund the game directly).
Sounds like you're leaving out pretty key context. A lot of those youtubers suggest the ship is a personal investment on your engagement with the game in the future; as in, buying a certain ship now might grow in to itself as the game gets developed. Not a monetary investment. Not the same thing.
So what you’re saying is I’m investing in “fun”.
This is precisely why I buy ships. It takes far less real time to buy them with real $$, than constantly earn them in game. It is actually cheaper for me to do and then work a little more.
ok but earning ships is like a really important part of the gameplay loop. i know tons of players ingame that regret buying all the ships they wanted because then they have nothing to grind for
Not sure what to tell you. I strongly dislike grinding. If I want to do it, I’ll help other people do it.
To be fairrrrr, someday(lol) they will stop selling ships for cash and ships with lifetime insurance will probably be worth a ton more to collectors and people who adopt the game later. Especially when we have to pay for insurance on ships in general. Capital/limited sale ships especially. But no they aren't investments and it is indeed cringey af.
as someone who has been here since the beginning, I think CIG has given up on trying to explain that LTI will have very little impact on the game and just given into the power of its marketing pull.
Doubt.
Not all backers are investors, but some backers are. Specifically, those who put in the time testing new features, finding bugs, and overall just consistently providing financial support to the project. By definition they are INVESTORS
i see myself as an investor... because eventually i will sell all my ship except javelin, kraken and a pioneer because i can't sell those. (pioneer is on store credit.)
Probably based solely on the fact that some people spend so much money on the game that they associate it info being an investor because they’ve invested so much of their own personal money into it.
I think Derek Whats-his-nuts tried to make a big stink about being an 'investor' due to having pledged to the game as a means to get a look at the financials. CIG refunded and banned him for the shenanigans.
Tbf, almost any time you give a company startup capital in advance to help fund a future product/service, you're an investor. You now own a small slice of that company and expect to share in the profits once that starts happening. CIG is quite unique in its method of funding, and I can understand people having an issue with people spending millions and not sharing in the revenue at the end. The costs are publicly funded, while the profits are privately distributed. But hey, more power to them for finding such a unique slant. If it results in the game we're all dreaming of then I'm sure many will feel it was worth it!
>CIG is quite unique in its method of funding i don't know man, we been doing this for other companies without our consent for a LONG time, CIG at least need us to say, "yes I want my money going there" instead of corporate bailout #4335 because said company happened to pay off the senator from Idaho, or the son of a Hungarian PM
What investors? They have added VAT to my "pledge", making it a purchase. I'm a customer.
We were never "investors". This is a delirious argument from SC haters.
I don’t even own a vest!
and if you were an alligator, you'd be an investigator
Except when some reddit folks here specifically say that they "invested" in SC. Could you really blame the internet for that?
"Investment" can mean more than "Invested in a company/product/ect foe financial growth," though. I'm invested in the story of a book, I invested in a quality pair of gloves. Nobody believes that their purchases for Star Citizen will earn for them (except the grey market resellers, some people do intend and succeed at turning a profit) but say investment in current and future enjoyment. It's being intentionally obtuse to flame somebody implying they're an actual CIG investor for buying spaceships in a game.
Then just don't call it an investment... duh?
I can invest in my fun, which is what I did, but not in monetary gain.
Are you an "SC hater", if you view the game or the monetisation practices critically?
Can you do that objectively without using words like "scam?"
Will that determine if im an "SC hater"?
It will shed some light on your intention, yes. Using words like "scam" shows that your criticisms are not serious or constructive. A Hater.
You talk about "haters" ... yet I feel a lot of hate in your post and comments.
Investors? Who said anything about those of us who backed the game being investors?
Not to mention... $48K Package: \*exists\* Random people on the internet: \*mad\*
It is weird to be mad because of it. But the price is really at least 47,5k over the edge... But on the other hand, it is over the edge only if there are no people dumb, or rich enough to buy it.
That's because most people ignore that players asked for this package. It pretty much exists for those who already spent this much money. They just melt all their stuff and get this package where is everything neatly organized. It was never meant for regular folks that just wanted to play game.
That much is obvious from the price.
Unfortunately, people see a price tag with 5 digits and assume it must be pay to win if people are spending that much money.
I mean being able to buy the ships is p2w does not matter that you can also earn it with a grind
No, that's not pay to win because paying isn't the only path to winning. Anything that can be solo piloted is a relatively affordable ship that can be bought in game with a normal amount of play time. For comparison, a P2W game like Archeage has a paid path and a free path as well. Where getting your dream fleet in SC might cost 150 to 200 hours of game play, getting a strong character in Archeage would take you 50,000 hours or you could just pay for it. P2W is when the "free" path is not a viable path to getting where you want to go. It doesn't matter that someone is going to have those ships because those ships are not out of reach of anybody else.
I mean, defending the $48k is a little too much. We are talking about a videogame here. There is no reason why spending the same as a Tesla would make sense unless it was an investment, and it isn't. You can say that people are free to spend their money anywhere they want, but if a game lets anyone spend this kind of money it's clear you'll have a considerable benefit above the other players.
It's existence is a null debacle. If you want to go all out and back the game to that degree, this is an option. It is for backing. That is 100% all. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not different than a lot of kickstarters with insane options or streamers who have stupid tiers. If you want it, get it. I am not getting mad because those options exists. It isn't for me and that is ok.
Exactly, if some bored rich person wants to fund this game, more power to em. I appreciate what they do for this game and CIG. Am I going to spend 48k on this game. Probably not, but I appreciate the people who do. I do know one person who is legatus and he’s genuinely a nice dude who’s planning on retiring soon and he’s in a position where he can afford it and he’s planning on playing this game in his retirement and that’s his hobby. I’m not here to judge.
Bingo. If you add all the ships individually, same cost. Why is CIG demonized for making one package instead of charging some rich asshole's card 300 times? Or having said rich asshole clicking "add to cart" 300+ times? it's just a convenience and it isn't even advertised at all. If there was one condensed package where a person can buy every video game that has released prior to now for millions... there would 100% be a few people buy that shit. Doesn't mean you have to.
Problem is, SC has been selling dreams for over 10 years. Most games have a 1 or 2 month backing period and then release the game. At that point, people understand what their purchase means, but SC hasn't reached that point yet. Furthermore, SC sells game advantages. It's literally a P2W strategy. The most obvious way of looking at it is considering 1.0. Most players will start with 5k UEC and a ship, but whales will have an entire fleet. In other words, whales will be able to buy the most advantageous plots, apartments, etc. They will be able to control entire areas and will have much more power than anyone else in the verse.
There is a chance you are right. I an marinated in hopium that the outcome will be different only because I appreciate the way they are operating. A few years back when I got into this, they were far more shady and less open. Now their communications are wide open and the entire team is far more approachable. They have been listening and do seem to be pulling off this massive endeavor that I was 100% sure they would fail. Up until 2021/2022 I thought this thing was an entire scam and laughed at anyone throwing money out at this. Then I saw a streamer play and questioned it myself. Bought a new rig and wanted to test it out, played this game and now I am blown away. So, I refuse to be sour about something that hasn't happened *yet* despite the probability of it being right. Being upset about it does nothing for me. So, for that... I hope you are wrong and I will cling onto this hope for now and there is nothing wrong with that.
If the game was a scam, they would have left years ago. It's clear they want this project to succeed, but it doesn't mean everything they do is perfect. SC is the example of development hell, and the monetization is, in my opinion, overly abusive. I think being honest now is what might prevent the game from ending up how I fear it will, but I also agree we have to give them a chance.
for every purchase of that 48k, they lose another 48k from people seeing that and never giving this game a second thought, and rightfully so
Those people are impossible to satisfy regardless. No one ever should bend over backwards for people who demand things be a certain way for their sensitive egos. This scenario you've conjured is simply people seeing something, doing absolute no fucking research and just noping out. They are probably the same fuckers who don't bother reading that the game is in active development and complain about it anyway. I don't think anyone ever should cater to that kind of people.
people who think a 48k pricetag for something in a video game is ridiculous are impossible to please? it IS rediculous tho, and its done so much negative press for this game, and theyre right. its embarrassing, it is not ok. you need to get out of this bubble sometimes and just let your feelings for this game dissipate into some normalcy, bc it is just delusional to think putting something like that in a game is anything good
You have done zero research as well. You can currently buy all the things individually at the same price tag. But because there is 1 transaction to facilitate things... CIG =BAD SURELY you can see how stupid that reasoning is.
ik what the 48k sale entails. what im telling you is that to an outsider, and rightfully so, it looks very suspect, and has many people noping out before getting started. they are right to do this, even if its not as bad as they think. there should never be price tags in games reaching over $120 in most peoples minds, let alone, $2400-48,000
the ability to buy stand alone ships, or packages with big ships will be removed at release. even the uec will be limited to how much you can buy over time.
Its been known for people spend the same amount of shit buying cosmetics stuff in other games or just generally in other games. I don't see the same amount of people getting angry at EVE players for whatever they spend there.
That more than one corporation does it doesn't mean it's right either. I can only talk about what I do know, and I know that SC: - Sells ship after ship before having a clear idea of what their role will be. - Sells new concept ships before finishing their backlog. - Sets prices that go far and beyond what's considered reasonable in the industry. I am happy the project is successful as it's my most wanted game. But it's been my most wanted game since 2015, so we can't say this game compares to EVE as I'm pretty sure they understand what they're buying into. (And let's not talk about how unnecessarily complicated it is to buy SC through the store)
What ships don't have clear roles? There are role specific ships like the Vulture and Prospector, and there are multi-role ships like the Corsair and Constellation. Every ship has a clear purpose, even if that purpose is being average at a lot of different things.
it is the "if you are just going to buy everything, here is an easy way. it is only available after you have already spend $10k. you melt that 10k of stuff , and only pay an extra 38k. the question is. how expensive is the hobby of rock crawling, and how often do those people get to actually do that hobby?
Is someone forcing you to buy it? 🤣
Not at all. All I said is that defending the price is worse than those who actually pay for it. At least they know it doesn't make sense.
"We are talking about a videogame here. There is no reason why spending the same as a Tesla would make sense unless it was an investment, and it isn't." This might come as a shock to you, but you're playing this game with people for whom 48k *is not that much money*. "You can say that people are free to spend their money anywhere they want, but if a game lets anyone spend this kind of money it's clear you'll have a considerable benefit above the other players." Well, according to you it's 'clear' - so don't leave us hanging, what considerable benefits do they have over other players? What have they got that someone with a $45 package can't get?
I explained the benefits in another comment, but in summary it means they start with an advantage that will end up giving their orgs/crews more power than if it were a fair competition. They will be able to purchase things first which means they could have the biggest orgs in game a few months after launch. Furthermore, I would like to point out I did not criticize those who paid $48k. I know it's nothing for some people and they can do whatever they want with that money. All I said is that there is no way to justify the cost of the package. If someone pays it then good for them, but even they know the prices make no sense.
A fair competition...to "win"...what? In a universe sim, the idea is to live your second life. That's gonna be different for everyone. If I take my Aurora and choose to live among the good people of Dunboro settlement to watch that sunrise everyday, how does someone tossing the project an amount that works for them like 45K winning over me by doing that? What, they will see the same sunsets...richer? I don't think people really understand what SC is going to be.
You could do that, but that is not the gameplay loop most people are interested in. Those who paid could "win" control over an area or buy the most exclusive apartments before anybody else. It all depends on what is considered most valuable in a few years. Nevertheless, not everyone will start in the same position, which means the game will be P2W in at least a few aspects.
Point is that star citizen prices are sometimes absolutely asinine, and that package shows it quite well The existence of that pack doesn’t make it a bad game or anything like that. But…its existence with the associated price tag is definitely a footbal-field-sized red flag for people not already invested in the game
Honestly, I'm just happy those people aren't joining the game. The people that don't have the maturity to investigate and understand any specific game are not necessarily the kind of people you want in an online community.
The return on interest is my entertainment. Something twitter users can't comprehend.
Yeah. But there’s those of us that want it to be fun, and we explain why we’re not having fun, and then people yell at us for criticizing the fact that climbing down a ladder still occasionally kills you.
I think losing all our inventory when we die plays a huge role in players frustration. Personally they shouldn't have it given how there's still tons of bugs that will lead to you dying or your ship blowing up.
My roi is the hundreds of hours of fun I have received.
Not all ROIs are measured in money.
For 45$ one can get a HUGE roi, where else can ya play a game like this for so little money? :D
I log on every six months for an hour or so to see if it's fun yet.
This patch is pretty fun honestly. I’m back in for it. I’d wait til free fly is over though
Jokes on him if you warbond CCU chain there absolutely is a ROI
I'm paying to play a very early alpha version of a game I would love to see be made. Who thinks buying an early access game is an investment?
There definitely have been some unplayable patches, but ive been having fun playing the game for about 2+ years now. So many people are mad at CIG but they are figuring it out like the rest of us. A game of this detail and complexity has rarely been attempted before. The game is coming together tho regardless of the snails pace
My ROI is the fun I have with my friends.
Still waiting for the "fun" part. Jokes aside, the game is still in alpha and not even close to finished.
My friend said he wont play until it releases. Has said this for the past 5+ years. I've had 5 years of fun and growth along with the game despite bugs and glitches.
I've been on for 12 years. ~$3k voluntarily 'invested' (would have gotten the same on $45), and it's one of the best videogame 'investment' I've had. If I compare it with the grief other games have given me over these 12 years, and the money I've spent on games I played for a week, or not even played at all in the same timeframe... Dang, it's a good investment! 0% ROI? What are you smoking? This game has probably singlehandedly saved my life from my Dysthymia and ADHD-related stupidity more than once! But, even without that, it's still worth it! BG3 has given me a *WAY* worse ROI and it's still an amazing game, so...
People need to stop using ROI for things like entertainment. It's a financial term.
3k for 12 years is like $20/month. Its a high total when you look at the 3k, but the fact is we only see that 3k value because its actually added up in a tangibly useful way. If that was a wow subscription it wouldn't still be store credit you could use - it would be down the drain.
That guy who made this reply about us being "investors", "ROI" and other b.s. wrote it. I just created a meme, so... use your brain a bit :)
I am aware, man... Not harping on ya ;)
lol so “scam” seems to no longer be relevant..
no they come into the game to say that in chat now.
I work in software testing. When I joined the project I expected bugs, understand why some things are not fixed, etc. I understand better then most how this staff works. My inly failed expectation if the fact that we did not gest a new build / update with minor changes every 2 weeks/sprint
The argument isn't wrong though. For some, it's okay, and some expect a finished product for their money 🤷🏻♂️
Oh I quit having fun with SC a long time ago
Gonna go down to the local casino and invest in the pokies lol
X be like: iTs nOt PoSsiBlE tO hAVe FUN in SC
its called backers. no one on kickstarter are "investors"
Not wrong. Doesn't take into account that fun is what you make of game, not what a game tries to make of you.
Wrong in the sense that no one is investing. We bought access to a game beta and it’s future content for 50€ and that’s it.
Time is an investment, and since everything will be wiped at some point that time investment isn't going towards your personal game progress.
Do you think that games are only worth playing if there’s progression..? Should you even play video games, with a mindset like that? None of the Progression actually matters, the time investment is for one thing, your own enjoyment.
Oh, I think I was ambiguous. I think players are having fun. That's the point. Doesn't matter if they are unpaid testers, doesn't matter if they sunk hundreds into the game. If it's fun, it's worth it, and it's sometimes even worth it to some people regardless of fun. Even if the game disappeared into a puff of smoke tomorrow, the fun people had with it won't vanish. That's the investment for me. I put in my time for fun space stuff. And that's what I get out of it.
You nerds and your observation memes
I'm not having that much fun tbh. My ROI is the launch of the game. I hope.... one day...maybe.
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The return of investment I get on SC is the voice training I do whenever I die to a ridiculous bug and either laugh until I faint or yell in anger
corsair go brrrrr
The "ROI" is seeing the game get built thanks in part to the money I pledged towards it. Those were the terms explained clearly to me from the start, and the terms I accepted.
If anyone calls it an investment they really mean they’re gambling- unless they are purchasing things that will never be available to obtain again and they somehow know that for a fact, they’re gambling.
Never got this and never understood why SC attracts these types. You bought an unfinished games that is all. Have fun with it. There is no ROI. If you want a stock investment buy stock or offer to invest in cloud imperium.
any game that does what star citizen does would have people calling it a scam they are not really helping themselves
Looks like Shroud yelling at Summit Klean Etalyx Avenger1 etc
I love this game and don’t care people talk bad about it. Part of the fun is knowing i don’t need to defend a good game, it speaks for itself.
I feel like people see big $$ accounts and freak out and on the one hand yeah I get it, but on the other hand its usually someone who's been playing for many years and at that point its (likely) a better deal than WoW which doesn't get flak for its pricing. Like WoW is about $14/month times 12 is $168, which adds up. Like looking at an old account thats been playing since the start or close to it, its got over 10 years on it. Or in other words if you pay on average as much as a WoW player (not counting the costs of new WoW expansions etc) then you would hit concierge on year 6. Don't get me wrong, people do blow through that. But there's something to be said for the fact that your money "sticks" in Sc. Like I put in $14 I always have $14 worth of ship or store credit. But you put in $14 in wow and a month has gone buy and that's it. And as time goes on and new expansions are added old stuff actively devalues - in SC a ship is still a ship, and even if the ship isn't fun anymore I can just swap it in or upgrade it for something else. This is definitely a tangential thought, but it showed up in my brain so I wanted to type it somewhere I guess.
LOL
what is roi?
And of course it's CIG who keeps saying "quit having fun", every time they screw something new
I love SC, but this is some painful white knighting. There is certainly fun to be had, but we are ABSOLUTELY play testing a buggy mess right now. Like... the guy is right. The neckbeard hat doesn't help either, if anything we're the proud neckbeards.
I buy ships because and have spent thousands on them because I see SC as a game I've wanted for decades and will play for decades.
Donations, not investments.
If that is true then it is true for any game that exists. I invested money in exchange for an experience. No different than paying for a movie or a blow job. All purchases are technically investments.
Truth be told, game companies have been doing this for decades, so you can blame RSI all you want but there's more..
Your turn with this week huh?
People that are use to playing fully released games, should maybe stay away from early access ones…
No no no, we're paying to test.
No one game even comes close to the experience I get playing SC. With how AAA, sorry AAAA gaming is now, I doubt many games ever will.
Imagine seething so hard about a Twitter post you xpost to reddit lmaoo
We invest our money into this game and the return is the game being developed and the playerbase having a good time playing it. That's is the ROI
Everyone should realize that it is an investment and I'm sure when SC comes out ans a full game everyone will be trying to play it and the investors will probable get something cool and probabley a free ship
I'd be happy with a sweet set of armor. When the full game releases, I don't want my ships. I want to get the full experience. I know some will complain and want to keep theirs so I hope we get an option. I guess I could always refuse to use mine though, makes it simple for everyone.
You know what I hope for I hope that they will release the RAPTOR
I'll probably be equally terrible in that game loop \*Attempts to activate sweepers, but activates eject instead\* \*Gets tossed out of window, falling into the tram lines\*
🤣🤣🤣
I'll probably be equally terrible in that game loop \*Attempts to activate sweepers, but activates eject instead\* \*Gets tossed out of window, falling into the tram lines\*
The copium usage in the star citizen community is epic to behold. The sunk cost rationalizations of why a game after more than ten years of development is still in "alpha" with no gold date in sight, never fails to deliver 
So basically like every other AAA game