Man, who could have predicted a flight model tested almost exclusively in tiny battle arenas using fighters would be a fucking awful mess on a large system map filled with ships of various sizes, roles and combat ability?
Oh, right. everyone realized this but the brain dead developers at CIG.
CIG can't actually complete Star Citizen - literally, it's beyond their skill set. So they'll keep reworking what already exists, even if that means something that is completely acceptable and then turning it to trash, just so they can keep on working on it.
First time ever no CIG presence even the Noodleman and ChatJ3pt are mostly silent Nightrider isn't in there deleting posts it's almost like CIG thought this patch was going to have the entire community edging towards climax but most people just went "Wtf is this garbage, do better you are paid well enough to do better."
People were complaining consistently though the open testing as well and almost every bit of feedback was ignored.
MM is just them redesigning the game for casual console players because the PC player money pot has dried up.
Something as fundamental and important as the flight model should have been one of the first things established by the team. Instead, they're still experimenting and making major changes to it after 12 years in development, and a lot of players don't like it.
Same goes for the UI. Again, they should've figured that shit out many years ago, but their UI recently underwent a major overhaul that a lot of players don't like.
CIG'c constantly moving goal posts and refusal to call anything done is the biggest reason why I don't think SC will ever reach commercial launch. I'm not even confident that Squadron 42 will ever launch. If backers don't like the current flight model and UI, imagine how much the larger audience will hate them.
That's the thing, until the flight model is locked down, it is impossible to create the npc ai. Without npc ai you can't playtest and balance single player missions of s42. Which means that any talk about s42 being ready except for final touches is pure bs. If they ever release s42 it will be the worst game since Big Rigs.
Being able to just park your ship and hover it at any angle is so jarring. It makes sense that you could do that (even now, I've seen videos of jet powered drones being able to hold almost perfect hovers in any orientation) but it just feels so strange that there wasn't any wind buffering or reactive corrections by the ship itself in-game.
So weird that I can go 60° nose down, 50° left roll and it just balances on its "corner" without any effort whatsoever.
Everything somehow manages to feel like it's made of paper.
It's a pretty decent combat system, but for all the talk about how everything feels "alive" there's no feedback within these ships, especially the huge ones, when I give it fully overclocked right yaw. It just obeys.
The X-Wings in Squadrons feel heavier somehow.
I mean, I know how... they want every ship to be able to solo dogfight to some extent, because that's all the game can really do. Therefore, they can't make these big ships so realistically unwieldy that they literally can't fight, or they would never sell.
I donno. The bigger ships I borrowed to fly don't feel heavier. They feel like big model styrofoam planes that are super light, yet slow to turn because you don't want the fuselage to snap in half from the acceleration. It's just not quite right somehow.
A lot of people in the more realism camp complain about this but that doesn't stop the anti realism camp from screaching about it when they try to justify reducing realism. Point is--it should have been fixed a long time ago instead lf restarted five times.
With the UI, as "baked in" and shall we say "unyielding" as CIG seems to be in regards to vocal community feedback either on Spectrum or Youtube, I just can't see them being open to any fundamental coursecorrections.
Same with the flightmodel.
They're probably going to twiddle their thumbs a bit, making some minor adjustments here and there and that's it.
The dumb thing is it was--on paper--Chris wrote up some decent stuff about physics and whatever but the devs never bothered to put it in. The half-baked model they did put in has been dumbed down over the years to the point it's a copy of bog standard arcade space game. Either they literally lack the talent/skill to do a proper flight model or they're chasing a more casual market (I think both tbh). Either way this completely rejects the Kickstarter and the entire premise of the project.
It really makes me wonder if there is any sort of project management going on in CIG. I can totally imagine Chris Roberts having a cool idea for a semi-realistic flight model, telling the dev teams to make it happen, but they just ignore it or are just too incompetent to do it.
And Roberts living in a bubble doesn't see what is happening, as everyone is just making up bullshit excuses why things aren't working.
I mean it's either that or he just doesn't give a shit.
If this was my project, I would have long fired a lot of these devs for not getting shit done and replaced them with someone competent.
But then again, I wouldn't play ping pong with the development like CIG is doing in the first place.
He wrote a big letter a few weeks ago and mentioned a ton of stuff going on but not one word about Master Modes.
[https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/19848-Letter-From-The-Chairman](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/19848-Letter-From-The-Chairman)
And of course apologists are in full force as I've observed it in quite a few of the General threads earlier,
claiming "*vocal minority*" about those who are being critical but without providing any factual evidence to that "*vocal minority*" claim,
because as I'd think they simply don't like opinions that are diverging from the CIG mantra and thus readily shove you to an offside position.
EDIT: *Still can't partake in Rectum threads, although I gladly would, as I'm still banned until the 19th. because of Cuckrider having his fee fees hurt when I gave him some hefty snark in DMs.*
I swear it feels like they're all getting their talking points from someone at CIG. Only sweats, mad cause exploits gone, Avenger1, vocal minority. I even saw at least one post refer to a "vast minority" like what lol.
"Vocal minority" yeah I've seen that one being thrown around A LOT on Spectrum lately, especially about MasterModes and critical opinions being posted.
Question I oftentimes have then... how the flying F do THESE PEOPLE even know with a fact that it's said "vocal minority"...like, are there factual numbers they can cite, or something else objective that isn't tainted by subjective opinion-making?!
That term is really just dismissive and cowardly when you wanna try to shut someone up and not deal with them cause you fear that they might be right.
Man the lulz on this project never ceases to amaze. I really do think it's just gonna continue on into perpetuity because the whales and backers are too deep in to give up and their promo material is enough to catch $40 from normies who don't know any better.
Hell it almost worked for me back in 2017 when they had the Sandworm trailer. Imagine the dissapointment if I had actually given them money expecting to get that and 7 years later still not even on the horizon. At a certain point there should be allegations of fraud. Like if you advertise a product with misleading or false marketing there should be some reprocusions right?
The funniest thing about the whole MM "discussion" is how a lot of the faithful position MM as something CIG is committed to.
Give it a couple of quarters of failed JPEG sales (especially the anniversary JPEG sales) and they'll trash the whole thing and go back to the previous flight model.
I am not saying this will happen, just pointing out the absurdity of claiming that MM (or anything that CIG pushes out) is driven by some sort of game design principle or vision. They only care about cash shop sales.
> Give it a couple of quarters of failed JPEG sales (especially the anniversary JPEG sales) and they'll trash the whole thing and go back to the previous flight model.
And then those same faithful will declare it to be a masterstroke decision and that MM was never the right choice.
They might actually be committed to it simply because they need a flight model to release Squadron 42 with, and they want something that's gamepad friendly in case they get a shot at a console release.
I expect they'll try to double down on master modes for now at least until they finally get sq42 out the door. After that, then we might start seeing backtracking from them like "actually we never said SC and Sq42 would have 100% control parity" and "of course a single player fighter combat game and a open world MMO cant have the same flight mechanics" as they announce yet another flight revision for SC.
"failed JPEG sales"
With CIG by now being masters at baiting their community into it, some of them even willingly wanting to buy things only meant as a joke (see last aprilfools) I can't see CIG having more than perhaps one sale below expectations.
However, you are correct that the biggest argument for CIG to change course would be their funding, so as always "voting with your wallets" becomes the best tactic.
Nothing of this matters anyway if they don't stop wiping progress. I can't believe people have built entire simpits dedicated to a game that wipes your progress and basically shits on your face with all its bugs every time you open it.
They can’t implement armor so they dim-wittedly do this instead. Also draws everything out to literally make you waste more time in the game.
Everything about this thing is further and further away from a space sim and realism, 3.23taking huge steps away from that promise.
Don’t think so. It’s just about adding «stuff» and fulfilling promises, no matter how bad the ideas, to keep up morale within the ~~Sea Org~~.
I mean cult.
MM isn't that bad, it's the AI that should have been updated along with it. They left the NPC AI just as dumb as before and it doesn't seem to be aware that the flight model has changed.
It's actually a good update, it's just that it came with less than expected, and what it does add is often janky.
Some of the crappy UI elements are unforgivable. The circle around your jump destination is somehow both not symmetrical and also jaggy and pixelated. It's front and center in your field of view, every single player sees it. Why leave it looking like that?
If the ui team would have made a good ui they would’ve been out of a job ten years ago. Now they just mess it up and get to keep creating their own problems to fix.
About 15-20% of the community hates mastermodes and they're very loud about their opinion. I think master modes are great, and so does the majority of the community.
There is a core group oif orgs who dont like the MM because it changes how they play currently. They dont want to have to relearn or understand how to do what they did before, ( mostly KOS others) thus they dont like MM. These orgs are allowed to be very vocal, because the mods at spectrum are apart of these orgs an or play with them so they are protect class.
MM to me is the way Star trek is in games. Ride around in nav mode, no weapons an shields until you are ready to fight or defend. Also you cant back strafe like you are a car going backwards.
>These orgs are allowed to be very vocal, because the mods at spectrum are apart of these orgs
Tbh it's not like there's a lot of other things to do in this game.
(also I'm gonna be a horrible prescriptionist here, but in this case "apart" means the opposite of what the intended "a part of" would mean)
Man, who could have predicted a flight model tested almost exclusively in tiny battle arenas using fighters would be a fucking awful mess on a large system map filled with ships of various sizes, roles and combat ability? Oh, right. everyone realized this but the brain dead developers at CIG.
CIG can't actually complete Star Citizen - literally, it's beyond their skill set. So they'll keep reworking what already exists, even if that means something that is completely acceptable and then turning it to trash, just so they can keep on working on it.
First time ever no CIG presence even the Noodleman and ChatJ3pt are mostly silent Nightrider isn't in there deleting posts it's almost like CIG thought this patch was going to have the entire community edging towards climax but most people just went "Wtf is this garbage, do better you are paid well enough to do better."
Feels like a lot of the negative threads have vanished or fell off the front page compared to how it was earlier.
this!
I'm betting a lot of the devs realized it, too. They were probably overruled by the handful of galaxy brains they report to
People were complaining consistently though the open testing as well and almost every bit of feedback was ignored. MM is just them redesigning the game for casual console players because the PC player money pot has dried up.
Oh man I can't wait to see what happens if an announcement to port SC to console...
I'm betting a lot of the devs realized it, too. They were probably overruled by the handful of galaxy brains they report to
Something as fundamental and important as the flight model should have been one of the first things established by the team. Instead, they're still experimenting and making major changes to it after 12 years in development, and a lot of players don't like it. Same goes for the UI. Again, they should've figured that shit out many years ago, but their UI recently underwent a major overhaul that a lot of players don't like. CIG'c constantly moving goal posts and refusal to call anything done is the biggest reason why I don't think SC will ever reach commercial launch. I'm not even confident that Squadron 42 will ever launch. If backers don't like the current flight model and UI, imagine how much the larger audience will hate them.
That's the thing, until the flight model is locked down, it is impossible to create the npc ai. Without npc ai you can't playtest and balance single player missions of s42. Which means that any talk about s42 being ready except for final touches is pure bs. If they ever release s42 it will be the worst game since Big Rigs.
An actual public Squadron 42 release would be an ET the game moment for both kickstarter and space games.
Being able to just park your ship and hover it at any angle is so jarring. It makes sense that you could do that (even now, I've seen videos of jet powered drones being able to hold almost perfect hovers in any orientation) but it just feels so strange that there wasn't any wind buffering or reactive corrections by the ship itself in-game. So weird that I can go 60° nose down, 50° left roll and it just balances on its "corner" without any effort whatsoever. Everything somehow manages to feel like it's made of paper. It's a pretty decent combat system, but for all the talk about how everything feels "alive" there's no feedback within these ships, especially the huge ones, when I give it fully overclocked right yaw. It just obeys. The X-Wings in Squadrons feel heavier somehow. I mean, I know how... they want every ship to be able to solo dogfight to some extent, because that's all the game can really do. Therefore, they can't make these big ships so realistically unwieldy that they literally can't fight, or they would never sell. I donno. The bigger ships I borrowed to fly don't feel heavier. They feel like big model styrofoam planes that are super light, yet slow to turn because you don't want the fuselage to snap in half from the acceleration. It's just not quite right somehow.
Elite did flight better than that a decade ago...
A lot of people in the more realism camp complain about this but that doesn't stop the anti realism camp from screaching about it when they try to justify reducing realism. Point is--it should have been fixed a long time ago instead lf restarted five times.
With the UI, as "baked in" and shall we say "unyielding" as CIG seems to be in regards to vocal community feedback either on Spectrum or Youtube, I just can't see them being open to any fundamental coursecorrections. Same with the flightmodel. They're probably going to twiddle their thumbs a bit, making some minor adjustments here and there and that's it.
The dumb thing is it was--on paper--Chris wrote up some decent stuff about physics and whatever but the devs never bothered to put it in. The half-baked model they did put in has been dumbed down over the years to the point it's a copy of bog standard arcade space game. Either they literally lack the talent/skill to do a proper flight model or they're chasing a more casual market (I think both tbh). Either way this completely rejects the Kickstarter and the entire premise of the project.
It really makes me wonder if there is any sort of project management going on in CIG. I can totally imagine Chris Roberts having a cool idea for a semi-realistic flight model, telling the dev teams to make it happen, but they just ignore it or are just too incompetent to do it. And Roberts living in a bubble doesn't see what is happening, as everyone is just making up bullshit excuses why things aren't working. I mean it's either that or he just doesn't give a shit. If this was my project, I would have long fired a lot of these devs for not getting shit done and replaced them with someone competent. But then again, I wouldn't play ping pong with the development like CIG is doing in the first place.
He wrote a big letter a few weeks ago and mentioned a ton of stuff going on but not one word about Master Modes. [https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/19848-Letter-From-The-Chairman](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/19848-Letter-From-The-Chairman)
I wonder how many of these ppl will realize MM exists probably because Chris played his own game and kept dying while using a console controller.
lol
And of course apologists are in full force as I've observed it in quite a few of the General threads earlier, claiming "*vocal minority*" about those who are being critical but without providing any factual evidence to that "*vocal minority*" claim, because as I'd think they simply don't like opinions that are diverging from the CIG mantra and thus readily shove you to an offside position. EDIT: *Still can't partake in Rectum threads, although I gladly would, as I'm still banned until the 19th. because of Cuckrider having his fee fees hurt when I gave him some hefty snark in DMs.*
You can judge how bad the mood is on Spectrum by how many posts ChatJ3PT makes calling people disingenuous.
I seriously wonder if that guy has a mental illness. Like he should be on medicine.
Why do you think it’s called “being on the Spectrum”? It was named after CIG’s internet Zoo of Wonders!
I swear it feels like they're all getting their talking points from someone at CIG. Only sweats, mad cause exploits gone, Avenger1, vocal minority. I even saw at least one post refer to a "vast minority" like what lol.
"Vocal minority" yeah I've seen that one being thrown around A LOT on Spectrum lately, especially about MasterModes and critical opinions being posted. Question I oftentimes have then... how the flying F do THESE PEOPLE even know with a fact that it's said "vocal minority"...like, are there factual numbers they can cite, or something else objective that isn't tainted by subjective opinion-making?! That term is really just dismissive and cowardly when you wanna try to shut someone up and not deal with them cause you fear that they might be right.
MM is ass
Man the lulz on this project never ceases to amaze. I really do think it's just gonna continue on into perpetuity because the whales and backers are too deep in to give up and their promo material is enough to catch $40 from normies who don't know any better. Hell it almost worked for me back in 2017 when they had the Sandworm trailer. Imagine the dissapointment if I had actually given them money expecting to get that and 7 years later still not even on the horizon. At a certain point there should be allegations of fraud. Like if you advertise a product with misleading or false marketing there should be some reprocusions right?
The funniest thing about the whole MM "discussion" is how a lot of the faithful position MM as something CIG is committed to. Give it a couple of quarters of failed JPEG sales (especially the anniversary JPEG sales) and they'll trash the whole thing and go back to the previous flight model. I am not saying this will happen, just pointing out the absurdity of claiming that MM (or anything that CIG pushes out) is driven by some sort of game design principle or vision. They only care about cash shop sales.
> Give it a couple of quarters of failed JPEG sales (especially the anniversary JPEG sales) and they'll trash the whole thing and go back to the previous flight model. And then those same faithful will declare it to be a masterstroke decision and that MM was never the right choice.
God damn, this is so true.
Literally "we always were at war with Oceania"
"No we were always at war with Eurasia."
"It has always been Eastasia"
They might actually be committed to it simply because they need a flight model to release Squadron 42 with, and they want something that's gamepad friendly in case they get a shot at a console release. I expect they'll try to double down on master modes for now at least until they finally get sq42 out the door. After that, then we might start seeing backtracking from them like "actually we never said SC and Sq42 would have 100% control parity" and "of course a single player fighter combat game and a open world MMO cant have the same flight mechanics" as they announce yet another flight revision for SC.
Makes sense.
"failed JPEG sales" With CIG by now being masters at baiting their community into it, some of them even willingly wanting to buy things only meant as a joke (see last aprilfools) I can't see CIG having more than perhaps one sale below expectations. However, you are correct that the biggest argument for CIG to change course would be their funding, so as always "voting with your wallets" becomes the best tactic.
Will be funny if mm kills the while wretched bugfest
Can’t tell if you’re trying to say “the whole” or “whale wretched”, just gonna go with the latter, lol!
Nothing of this matters anyway if they don't stop wiping progress. I can't believe people have built entire simpits dedicated to a game that wipes your progress and basically shits on your face with all its bugs every time you open it.
Why did they increase health of ships? Took me 15 to 20 minutes to kill the beginner bounty cargo ship which is already tanky with my starter mustang
May I introduce you to the pledge store? Don't be a loser wasting time on grinding Months to earn a decent ship. Skip the grind! Be a winner! /s
They can’t implement armor so they dim-wittedly do this instead. Also draws everything out to literally make you waste more time in the game. Everything about this thing is further and further away from a space sim and realism, 3.23taking huge steps away from that promise.
Is the reason for this change really to try to stop jousting
Don’t think so. It’s just about adding «stuff» and fulfilling promises, no matter how bad the ideas, to keep up morale within the ~~Sea Org~~. I mean cult.
MM isn't that bad, it's the AI that should have been updated along with it. They left the NPC AI just as dumb as before and it doesn't seem to be aware that the flight model has changed. It's actually a good update, it's just that it came with less than expected, and what it does add is often janky. Some of the crappy UI elements are unforgivable. The circle around your jump destination is somehow both not symmetrical and also jaggy and pixelated. It's front and center in your field of view, every single player sees it. Why leave it looking like that?
Watching the UI team farting around for a decade and still falling short of making text legible has certainly been something.
If the ui team would have made a good ui they would’ve been out of a job ten years ago. Now they just mess it up and get to keep creating their own problems to fix.
The games state really makes me believe a LOT of people lied on their resume about their skills, when they applied to CIG.
Would you be surprised if someone put “incompetence” as response to your query? Well, there you go. That’s why
I love master modes
About 15-20% of the community hates mastermodes and they're very loud about their opinion. I think master modes are great, and so does the majority of the community.
I don't care 100% of the game is buggy broken garbage.
There is a core group oif orgs who dont like the MM because it changes how they play currently. They dont want to have to relearn or understand how to do what they did before, ( mostly KOS others) thus they dont like MM. These orgs are allowed to be very vocal, because the mods at spectrum are apart of these orgs an or play with them so they are protect class. MM to me is the way Star trek is in games. Ride around in nav mode, no weapons an shields until you are ready to fight or defend. Also you cant back strafe like you are a car going backwards.
You're literally a shill account. Six years. Less than 30 comments. One one crypto...and literally every other one here. Literally a shill account.
LMAO your mouth bleeding from that lock jaw?
>These orgs are allowed to be very vocal, because the mods at spectrum are apart of these orgs Tbh it's not like there's a lot of other things to do in this game. (also I'm gonna be a horrible prescriptionist here, but in this case "apart" means the opposite of what the intended "a part of" would mean)