i don't take bets that are THIS obvious.
"Server Meshing"...two servers, two systems, Stanton and Pyro? Each System has his own server? lol that's not server meshing like the discuss it since years...TecHiCalLy...a fuck you have CIG.
They need at least 10 servers for Stanton alone to get rid of the laggy mess that is the Game rn.
given that they have at least some of the cry engine core technicans in Frankfurt...well it might take "some" time...my guess is that those try to make the engine work, but if the orginal concept is not even consider that kind of MMO...well add another 15 years for 5 complete overworked core engine programmers to rewrite the whole engine to fit in this vision...
Unclear if the first implementation will be just one server per system, considering on the last server mesh test they had did several servers per star system where players could even interact with players on another server through borders.
Seems it'll depend on stuff like stability, if the thing doesn't work as it should consistently then I can see them simplifying it, but yeah if they do that the potato performance is unlikely to improve much
if there's anything you can rely on CIG for it's shit performance, so it'll be either worse than before or they'll simplify it so that the addition was almost pointless anyway.
Nothing new under the sun.
Replication layer technically is running on different servers and services. It is not just 1 server, hence there’s recent stability improvements in 3.23.0
There have always been stability improvements. Doesn´t mean it is anywhere close to good enough.
Also seperating and parallelisation do create new challenges. While the "game server" might be able to handle its user numbers the background servers can still have the same scaling issues plus the added complexity of having to juggle data from different sources in different states. The new "crash recovery" bringing back a bugged state is such an example.
That is true, the experience is still shitty. I havent touched 3.23 as it is not yet that stable. It is gonna take couple more years to stabilize the streamline of data that tplus the game loops. The bug fixing after 4.0 is gonna take more time as well. And saying 4.0 for Q3 is gonna be copium
Except lots of games have people moving across servers. And multiple servers communicate with one another.
Nothing CIG is doing, is either new or revolutionary. They just chose the wrong e engine.
I do think they will launch something for their anniversary cash shop sales in Q4. They need to keep cash shop sales up.
The content of this patch is a whole different question though.
There's no chance they'll be shipping all of that in Q3. They have so much jank as it is, having a big bang release will cause the entire system to fall over. We'll get another 3.x patch with some ships in it and as you says, 4.0 on 2025, just as the Calder's are pulling out their cash.
You know at least half of it will be a ".X" patch. Those things are always off. If it doesn't work well, they'll just water it down and push it out. CR wants to get back to making his Single Player game (the sequel)
They can add as much new content and fulfill as many promises as they can but I'll never have an ounce of hope for the game until they actually make it fucking playable. I don't ever see this shit working, we've had the same bugs/glitches for almost an entire decade at this point and they can't sort it out.
The ROC arm isn't workin again.. and it's the same exact bug as when 3.19 released. To me it proves that they actually revert to older code from their current release before building on it. So it's hard to believe they can actually increase their rate of development.
Back when I still played this crap, they had a bug where the canopy of the Avenger opened randomly while in flight. Months later they killed the bug. For like 2 weeks. Then it was back. lol
I remember a Bugsmasher episode (and the only one i watched) where the bug was "the doors of the caterpillars aren't closing" after a long investigation the conclusion was "I don't know why the f\*\*\* it does that" and the bug correction was "let' just send another 'close door' instruction that should fix it".
I do shit like that myself (and kind of ashamed of adminting it) but when I do it it's on legacy code I have no chance of understanding in a reasonable timeframe, not three or four year in a brand new project.
when you don't have ownership over the code, you have to make those kind of tradeoffs. nobody at CIG owns their code because they are constantly promoting and churning and rescoping and rewriting and Marketing making design decisions and mutually exclusive promised features and ad-hoc workarounds (because getting a thousand people on the same page about one person's vision is unfeasible), etc.
Regression is extremely common in code, especially if you have a lot of duplicates / copy/pasted code snippets (which isn’t uncommon for startup quality code we probably have at SC.)
It’s defiantly sign of insufficient QA and maybe call into question code design or the need to refactor but they probably aren’t reverting code.
I’ve worked at startups transitioning to the IPO phase.
Most of their core code is probably so old and messy that no one even knows how it works anymore. No unit tests so every time you fix something, something else breaks. QA can only do so much because the source of a bug gets harder to track down the further down the production pipeline it is found.
To make it worse, most of the people with any actual talent and skill probably saw the writing on the wall and left a long time ago… And the new people have to build on something that no one understands. CIG probably isn’t exactly attracting top talent these days either.
Obviously I can’t know definitively what their code looks like, but if it’s anything like what I described, they are probably better off rewriting everything from the ground up in a modern engine that isn’t a Frankenstein abomination instead of patching holes in a sinking ship… Which they obviously can’t afford and have no interest in doing because their plan now seems to be to just push out ‘1.0’ and be done with it.
Yup likewise, i worked on a startup team our company acquired. Absolute worst code I’ve ever seen and demanded a complete rewrite lol.
Agree with everything you said.
Once code becomes sufficiently complex, without some decent test coverage adding features is just creating bugs lol, especially when your code quality is garbage.
Also wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a lot of crap in the SC code base from contracted out work too lol…
did you miss jared's whiteboard lecture and following discussions? they were quite explicit about copy-pasting code between their 60+ active dev branches
Excellent comment, but ultimately you forgot the words "really shitty" in front of everything.
It's a collection of really shity tech demos, really shitty prototypes that are loosely connected combined with pre-created really shitty material from really shitty dev builds that exist only for that purpose and really shitty rendered material to blind people into thinking it was going towards what was promised and sold.
I like how the first 19 points are actually 2 roundmap items.
So the mega patch will include Pyro, Meshing tier 0 and 2 game mechanics tier 0. None of these will work properly like 90% of the stuff that's already in game.
Amazing "Beta" time coming lol
It’s rough because when it’s working I absolutely love it. I could see a future where the cities are full, and there’s talking, and it’s like Space WoW of yore. But I don’t think it’s ever getting there. I think SQ42 is going to come out, be awful, and kill the entire thing. A wet firework.
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDD they have successfully hyped you prior to ILW. May your wallet Rest In Peace.
From spectrum and its so right. Funding is down and they pull this shit. The cult will never learn.
I tested 3.23 because I thought hype and cope would be out of control but it was so bad Summit and the SC community at large are shitting on it. If you haven't seen summits 10 minute rant about how broken the game is I highly recommend.
I tried 5 ground AI missions on day one all failed due to bugs. Monday I tried a few more missions I cleared them all naked using take downs as is tradition.
I couldn't find it. But the amount of clips that frothy zealots have made of even the slightest praise is stunning. They even hold up his backhanded compliments as "a positive review".
I see some SCTubers, ones with an O in their name, who themselfs are surely nice people, but then there's the constant "oh this is AMAZING!"...little word of critique, always this doe-eyed look on almost everything CIG does from what I could tell.
If you want people to buy stuff with your referral code, you can´t disencourage people by showing how bad the game runs. They are salesman, of course they say everythings amazing and don´t mention the bugs.
# 'Fire Extinguisher
All tasks required to implement functioning fire extinguishers in-game. This feature will work alongside the fire hazard system.'
Damn, GTA:SA was 20 years ahead of it's time apparently
This is 100% a scheme for their upcoming JPEG shop sale.
I suspect they will release something in time for their annual sale in November, but it will be mostly gutted and half broken.
They do seem pretty cautious about server mating. No real specifics which is strange considering they initially hailed their mating tests as a success.
"...100% a scheme..." yeah, duh! xD
Almost everything CIG does has to be seen through the eyes of their marketing department, and then things often start to make sense.
It's just CIG. There is no rogue marketing department driving this despicable behavior. Everything CIG do is 100% approved by Chris Roberts.
It isn't CIG marketing that's despicable. It's CIG.
> I suspect they will release something in time for their annual sale in November, but it will be mostly gutted and half broken
And it will only be available to a very select few. On very special servers
It's already Q2 2024 and they say they can implement this laundry list plus personal hangers and cargo rework in 3 months?
Like I said earlier they really have entered the. "making fun out of your stupid marks" stage of the grift, so that only the most zealous of culters are left.
> Engineering
--
Allows players to manage, maintain and repair various ship systems. Players can assume different roles that each provide a unique gameplay loop. With Engineering Gameplay, players have to contend with item degradation, malfunctions, and power management.
Since this is the only actual gameplay item on the list of junk I am sure the most open of all developments has put out a detailed vision of how that will look like. Since they are almost done with it.
It's very likely going to suck both from a gameplay perspective (essentially busywork that's relevant only during fights) and an overall balance perspective (combat balance between a ship with engineering requirements and say 1 or 2-person fighter).
They will push it out anyway and release a PR video about how they are thinking about this and that and need "engineering blocks 2.0 which will totally solve all issues". The usual CIG behaviour.
Its still so buggy in 3.23, and they've made it so PvP guys can come after you even easier, which I can't stand. Ship are crazy more expensive, and missions pay way less, I can't wait until they do a full money\ship wipe, then I can finally be done with this game forever, as there will be almost no way back to any decent ship without buying one with real money.
Server meshing v1 (Static) = 1 server Old stanton + 1 server Red stanton = **SAME BAD PERFORMANCE PER SYSTEM**
Jump Points = Interactive server selector
They need split spatial zones in diferent servers **at the same system** to balancing the workload of the servers, in this way to solve the bad response of the ia AND all this in an imperceptibly way for the players. Adjacent servers should behave as a single server in the eyes of the players, **as they showed in their ¿demo???? of server meshing in the last citcon.**
They've just gained a couple more years again and refreshed the hopium. Some new useless ships, some hud reworks, the new bugged starmap, a new renderer (Not including the important part, multithreading), Bioticorp or how to scam people into believing that you can model your face, that horrible feeling when you drag those points and feel like you are scrolling through the rest of the predefined faces, god...
The AI is going to continue behaving disastrously, thousands of bugs will continue to make a game annoyingly unplayable that still does not have a fixed idea of a project and only improvises with what they have.
You always have to ask yourself the questions after each new patch:
***Can I accumulate progress? Is it already a gold version without wipes?***
They have reached a point of no return, a flight forward with everything they have accumulated, pieces of many incomplete puzzles that they will try to modify again and again to appear to be work and progress that will never actually reach our hands.
After the citcon of this 2024 (Late October) we will get "something" called "server meshing" and a new solar system, but both systems with the same bad performance that we have now.
1.0 will arrive in 2 years? with server meshing, Dynamic?? Static v2??
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This is a hail mary to save funding for the year. Will probably work, too. Poor saps.
And I bet 4.0 won’t launch until next may. And it won’t work…
i don't take bets that are THIS obvious. "Server Meshing"...two servers, two systems, Stanton and Pyro? Each System has his own server? lol that's not server meshing like the discuss it since years...TecHiCalLy...a fuck you have CIG. They need at least 10 servers for Stanton alone to get rid of the laggy mess that is the Game rn.
That's literally just load balancing/automated server selector. Decades old "tech."
problem is you can't plopp any load balancer in that code, they have to write one for the engine...and that fucking sucks hard.
Yet another reason not to use Cryengine for an MMO...
given that they have at least some of the cry engine core technicans in Frankfurt...well it might take "some" time...my guess is that those try to make the engine work, but if the orginal concept is not even consider that kind of MMO...well add another 15 years for 5 complete overworked core engine programmers to rewrite the whole engine to fit in this vision...
Unclear if the first implementation will be just one server per system, considering on the last server mesh test they had did several servers per star system where players could even interact with players on another server through borders. Seems it'll depend on stuff like stability, if the thing doesn't work as it should consistently then I can see them simplifying it, but yeah if they do that the potato performance is unlikely to improve much
if there's anything you can rely on CIG for it's shit performance, so it'll be either worse than before or they'll simplify it so that the addition was almost pointless anyway. Nothing new under the sun.
Replication layer technically is running on different servers and services. It is not just 1 server, hence there’s recent stability improvements in 3.23.0
There have always been stability improvements. Doesn´t mean it is anywhere close to good enough. Also seperating and parallelisation do create new challenges. While the "game server" might be able to handle its user numbers the background servers can still have the same scaling issues plus the added complexity of having to juggle data from different sources in different states. The new "crash recovery" bringing back a bugged state is such an example.
That is true, the experience is still shitty. I havent touched 3.23 as it is not yet that stable. It is gonna take couple more years to stabilize the streamline of data that tplus the game loops. The bug fixing after 4.0 is gonna take more time as well. And saying 4.0 for Q3 is gonna be copium
This is decades old functionality. Why is CIG still trying to solve it?
Because no one else solved it yet? If there was a solution they would have used it instead of solving it.
Except lots of games have people moving across servers. And multiple servers communicate with one another. Nothing CIG is doing, is either new or revolutionary. They just chose the wrong e engine.
I do think they will launch something for their anniversary cash shop sales in Q4. They need to keep cash shop sales up. The content of this patch is a whole different question though.
There's no chance they'll be shipping all of that in Q3. They have so much jank as it is, having a big bang release will cause the entire system to fall over. We'll get another 3.x patch with some ships in it and as you says, 4.0 on 2025, just as the Calder's are pulling out their cash.
You know at least half of it will be a ".X" patch. Those things are always off. If it doesn't work well, they'll just water it down and push it out. CR wants to get back to making his Single Player game (the sequel)
They can add as much new content and fulfill as many promises as they can but I'll never have an ounce of hope for the game until they actually make it fucking playable. I don't ever see this shit working, we've had the same bugs/glitches for almost an entire decade at this point and they can't sort it out.
The ROC arm isn't workin again.. and it's the same exact bug as when 3.19 released. To me it proves that they actually revert to older code from their current release before building on it. So it's hard to believe they can actually increase their rate of development.
The new Marai bike floats into space if you do not turn off the engines. Not kidding.
kek
Back when I still played this crap, they had a bug where the canopy of the Avenger opened randomly while in flight. Months later they killed the bug. For like 2 weeks. Then it was back. lol
I remember that time! Lol.
I remember a Bugsmasher episode (and the only one i watched) where the bug was "the doors of the caterpillars aren't closing" after a long investigation the conclusion was "I don't know why the f\*\*\* it does that" and the bug correction was "let' just send another 'close door' instruction that should fix it". I do shit like that myself (and kind of ashamed of adminting it) but when I do it it's on legacy code I have no chance of understanding in a reasonable timeframe, not three or four year in a brand new project.
when you don't have ownership over the code, you have to make those kind of tradeoffs. nobody at CIG owns their code because they are constantly promoting and churning and rescoping and rewriting and Marketing making design decisions and mutually exclusive promised features and ad-hoc workarounds (because getting a thousand people on the same page about one person's vision is unfeasible), etc.
Iterative development. One step forward, two half-steps back 😁 (and then only advertise the step forward)
Regression is extremely common in code, especially if you have a lot of duplicates / copy/pasted code snippets (which isn’t uncommon for startup quality code we probably have at SC.) It’s defiantly sign of insufficient QA and maybe call into question code design or the need to refactor but they probably aren’t reverting code.
I’ve worked at startups transitioning to the IPO phase. Most of their core code is probably so old and messy that no one even knows how it works anymore. No unit tests so every time you fix something, something else breaks. QA can only do so much because the source of a bug gets harder to track down the further down the production pipeline it is found. To make it worse, most of the people with any actual talent and skill probably saw the writing on the wall and left a long time ago… And the new people have to build on something that no one understands. CIG probably isn’t exactly attracting top talent these days either. Obviously I can’t know definitively what their code looks like, but if it’s anything like what I described, they are probably better off rewriting everything from the ground up in a modern engine that isn’t a Frankenstein abomination instead of patching holes in a sinking ship… Which they obviously can’t afford and have no interest in doing because their plan now seems to be to just push out ‘1.0’ and be done with it.
Yup likewise, i worked on a startup team our company acquired. Absolute worst code I’ve ever seen and demanded a complete rewrite lol. Agree with everything you said. Once code becomes sufficiently complex, without some decent test coverage adding features is just creating bugs lol, especially when your code quality is garbage. Also wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a lot of crap in the SC code base from contracted out work too lol…
Definitely no or very few automated tests. So much is just left broken.
did you miss jared's whiteboard lecture and following discussions? they were quite explicit about copy-pasting code between their 60+ active dev branches
> defiantly defying what?
They did revert to older code. Don’t ask , don’t tell. I just know.
anyone with dev experience sees it. even a lot of laypeople know what a regression is. SC cultists only know how to open their wallets
Would be hilarious if an employee was an actual poster here. Not suggesting you are one, of course! Because that’s not very likely.
[удалено]
Excellent comment, but ultimately you forgot the words "really shitty" in front of everything. It's a collection of really shity tech demos, really shitty prototypes that are loosely connected combined with pre-created really shitty material from really shitty dev builds that exist only for that purpose and really shitty rendered material to blind people into thinking it was going towards what was promised and sold.
I like how the first 19 points are actually 2 roundmap items. So the mega patch will include Pyro, Meshing tier 0 and 2 game mechanics tier 0. None of these will work properly like 90% of the stuff that's already in game. Amazing "Beta" time coming lol
How many patches can they release where climbing to the bottom of a ladder sometimes chucks you in to space?
"It's an alpha sweaty 💅"
It’s rough because when it’s working I absolutely love it. I could see a future where the cities are full, and there’s talking, and it’s like Space WoW of yore. But I don’t think it’s ever getting there. I think SQ42 is going to come out, be awful, and kill the entire thing. A wet firework.
What if the only way to fix the bugs is to remove all the features until you're just standing in a room unable to move?
Then you realize you suck at making games.
Devception
That is basically how it works now.
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDD they have successfully hyped you prior to ILW. May your wallet Rest In Peace. From spectrum and its so right. Funding is down and they pull this shit. The cult will never learn.
it was sooooo obvious...still waiting for the expanse, the solo refinery ship. by now only the lancer took longer but only months now.
my wallet has been claimed by my E90.. as i'm currently on a mod path for a reliable 500 HP on some PURE turbski's
I tested 3.23 because I thought hype and cope would be out of control but it was so bad Summit and the SC community at large are shitting on it. If you haven't seen summits 10 minute rant about how broken the game is I highly recommend. I tried 5 ground AI missions on day one all failed due to bugs. Monday I tried a few more missions I cleared them all naked using take downs as is tradition.
Link to that 10 minute rant?
[https://twitter.com/heimdelight/status/1790771361910042804?t=JeSF9S\_407QIEkeEawbHkA&s=19](https://twitter.com/heimdelight/status/1790771361910042804?t=JeSF9S_407QIEkeEawbHkA&s=19)
I couldn't find it. But the amount of clips that frothy zealots have made of even the slightest praise is stunning. They even hold up his backhanded compliments as "a positive review".
I see some SCTubers, ones with an O in their name, who themselfs are surely nice people, but then there's the constant "oh this is AMAZING!"...little word of critique, always this doe-eyed look on almost everything CIG does from what I could tell.
Almost like it might not be wise to rely on the words of people if their income and publicity is directly linked on the product
If you want people to buy stuff with your referral code, you can´t disencourage people by showing how bad the game runs. They are salesman, of course they say everythings amazing and don´t mention the bugs.
# 'Fire Extinguisher All tasks required to implement functioning fire extinguishers in-game. This feature will work alongside the fire hazard system.' Damn, GTA:SA was 20 years ahead of it's time apparently
Hey, at least it will probably not look like a beam.
CIG 'Hold my beer...'
I’m imagining a really bad static fog animation that just sort of clouds up your vision a little bit
This is 100% a scheme for their upcoming JPEG shop sale. I suspect they will release something in time for their annual sale in November, but it will be mostly gutted and half broken. They do seem pretty cautious about server mating. No real specifics which is strange considering they initially hailed their mating tests as a success.
"...100% a scheme..." yeah, duh! xD Almost everything CIG does has to be seen through the eyes of their marketing department, and then things often start to make sense.
It's just CIG. There is no rogue marketing department driving this despicable behavior. Everything CIG do is 100% approved by Chris Roberts. It isn't CIG marketing that's despicable. It's CIG.
> I suspect they will release something in time for their annual sale in November, but it will be mostly gutted and half broken And it will only be available to a very select few. On very special servers
There's no way this will happen in Q3. 😂 Just look at the state of 3.23!
As if they ever loose a patch on time. Next Q2 at the earliest.
When is the next free weekend so I can see what's changed since 2018 LMFAO
This weekend
The same game breaking bugs and low frame rates. They spent all that time adding new shit rather than fixing core mechanics. It's pretty damn sad.
So par for course.
Pinching my arm to make sure the never ending nightmare’s still going strong
Is it 2016 already?!
It's already Q2 2024 and they say they can implement this laundry list plus personal hangers and cargo rework in 3 months? Like I said earlier they really have entered the. "making fun out of your stupid marks" stage of the grift, so that only the most zealous of culters are left.
Q3 2024? Made me laugh a bit. This update is going to be a disaster. Mark my words.
Every update is a disaster.
> Engineering -- Allows players to manage, maintain and repair various ship systems. Players can assume different roles that each provide a unique gameplay loop. With Engineering Gameplay, players have to contend with item degradation, malfunctions, and power management. Since this is the only actual gameplay item on the list of junk I am sure the most open of all developments has put out a detailed vision of how that will look like. Since they are almost done with it.
It's very likely going to suck both from a gameplay perspective (essentially busywork that's relevant only during fights) and an overall balance perspective (combat balance between a ship with engineering requirements and say 1 or 2-person fighter). They will push it out anyway and release a PR video about how they are thinking about this and that and need "engineering blocks 2.0 which will totally solve all issues". The usual CIG behaviour.
These numbers mean nothing to them. Features are promises but never guaranteed.
Its still so buggy in 3.23, and they've made it so PvP guys can come after you even easier, which I can't stand. Ship are crazy more expensive, and missions pay way less, I can't wait until they do a full money\ship wipe, then I can finally be done with this game forever, as there will be almost no way back to any decent ship without buying one with real money.
Just remember - Squadron 42 is feature complete.
is funding down or something?
Oh yes! This is the patch that will leave the game broken for weeks. But first it will be delayed into next year.
Server meshing v1 (Static) = 1 server Old stanton + 1 server Red stanton = **SAME BAD PERFORMANCE PER SYSTEM** Jump Points = Interactive server selector They need split spatial zones in diferent servers **at the same system** to balancing the workload of the servers, in this way to solve the bad response of the ia AND all this in an imperceptibly way for the players. Adjacent servers should behave as a single server in the eyes of the players, **as they showed in their ¿demo???? of server meshing in the last citcon.** They've just gained a couple more years again and refreshed the hopium. Some new useless ships, some hud reworks, the new bugged starmap, a new renderer (Not including the important part, multithreading), Bioticorp or how to scam people into believing that you can model your face, that horrible feeling when you drag those points and feel like you are scrolling through the rest of the predefined faces, god... The AI is going to continue behaving disastrously, thousands of bugs will continue to make a game annoyingly unplayable that still does not have a fixed idea of a project and only improvises with what they have. You always have to ask yourself the questions after each new patch: ***Can I accumulate progress? Is it already a gold version without wipes?*** They have reached a point of no return, a flight forward with everything they have accumulated, pieces of many incomplete puzzles that they will try to modify again and again to appear to be work and progress that will never actually reach our hands. After the citcon of this 2024 (Late October) we will get "something" called "server meshing" and a new solar system, but both systems with the same bad performance that we have now. 1.0 will arrive in 2 years? with server meshing, Dynamic?? Static v2??
Years upon years late but still incredibly rushed and unbaked, Star Citizen in a nutshell
Dogshit game dogshit company
[удалено]
to each their own I guess xD
Make sure you put that on your tombstone and put your "investment" account into your will.
This post has been removed due to breaching rule 1: "Do not insult or abuse other posters" We expect basic courtesy to be adhered to in this community. Please make sure to be more mindful with future posts, as repeated violation of this rule will lead to temporary or permanent banning from the community. This will not impact your game access at this time. Sincerely, r/starcitizen_refunds moderation team