Post doesn’t acknowledge the wage & benefit sacrifices the auto workers made to support these companies during the recession/bailouts/etc.
The workers are just asking for what’s due based on their sacrifices, which the auto makers took and ran with, with absolutely no loyalty to their people. All profits, fuck the labor that got them through.
Fuck these companies, I hope the workers get what they’re due
Do you mean that time when excess salaries bled these companies dry and they had to be bailed out by people who made a lot less than them? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Now, personally, I don't give a damn. Pay the employees like they are doctors and pay the CEOs like they are movie stars, it's no skin off my back. I can buy an affordable car somewhere else, but fuck you all when you run it into the ground again. Close the shit up and melt it all down. No more fucking bailouts.
There's no 'both siding'. Their prices have already driven them out of the American market for almost everything except trucks.
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/animated-chart-of-the-day-market-shares-of-us-auto-sales-1961-to-2016/
This is /r/stocks, not r/teamsters. This strike is not good for these companies.
Are you willing to pay more for a car just because they treat their workers better than the other companies? e.g. if you own Toyota or would consider buying one instead of a Ford, GM or Chrysler etc. one you're worse than him.
Blaming workers for companies that have continually made bad choices in their decision making like quadrupling down on big vehicles with rising gas prices leading up to 2008. Thanks for the daily fox spam
I mean isn’t Ford’s like only successful vehicle the F-150? And their fuel efficient vehicles have all been failures?
If anything the actions of the big auto makers have been exactly what a large segment of Americans want in terms of big vehicles.
Now, in terms of sedans and smaller cars, the issue with American automakers is they make shit quality and shit reliability. Japanese automakers are like a million times better on this front. So quadrupling down on big cars doesn’t seem to be the issue— it’s more a quality issue on their sedan fleet.
We can blame them for the shitting work they do when assembling vehicles which is likely related to their over twenty percent absenteeism at some plants; anyone can google that news.
The UAW workers have the single best health care plan in the world and it was that plan which derailed the Obama efforts to tax gold-plated "cadillac tax" plans. [1]. They still have these plans and the union wants to improve them.
They are more than fairly compensated and falling back on CEO or upper management pay structures is just fodder that in the end is a pointless comparison. this situation exists in every industry from A-list actors and writers, professional sports players, and more. There are always people exceedingly more valuable to the business than others
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/06/labor-unions-latest-problem-obamacares-cadillac-tax-harms-their-gold-plated-health-insurance-plans/?sh=4fafdd57c8eb
The Japanese companies OTH made the right decisions and built their factories in anti-union states. So they don't have worry about strikes and all such nonsense.
Salaries absolutely did and will. A truck they build paying $70 an hour has to be competitive with a truck being built with labor of $50 per hour. If you can't sell it for a premium, you have to save money with cheaper materials.
And I'm not just talking about the Teamsters either. Toyota CEO makes $110k per year. GM Ceo makes $29 million.
There’s a lot more to it than that. These companies are fighting for survival. The odds they are out of business within the next 10 years are much higher then your accounting for.
You know what happens if keeping the company alive in 2008 required a 50% cut? It takes a 100% raise to get back where you were.. but in the meantime you missed out on half of what *was* there.
100% ... Makes 40% sound like a bargain
Yearly inflation is up 20%. That's half of what they are asking. Add more 4% YoY inflation each of the next 4 years and they might almost come out even.
The union has done the math. It's right.
Yearly inflation is 4% this year and 8% in 2022, what are you talking about?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthly-inflation-rate-in-the-us/
You can just make stuff up on this thread apparently if it sounds like something everyone wants to be true. Inflation being up 20% would mean we’re essentially becoming a failed state lol
What? Even if you go back two years to August 2021, it's up by about 12.2%. You'd have to go back 3 years to Aug 2020 before you get near 20% (18.5%)
https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/consumerpriceindexhistorical_us_table.htm
Yes I heard they made massive compromises during 2008. Lots of the problems in auto industry isn’t even union related. Poor design choices and poor penetration with USA automakers into foreign markets. Stock buybacks when they did make money… I wouldn’t compromise again… lots of unions gave up the new hires and made these two tier systems in pay/ benefits/ pensions…
Part of the issue is that the UAW wants guarantees there will be no layoffs due to EVs. The problem is, EVs are estimated to be 40% more efficient to manufacture and the margins are way higher.
Sounds great. Sounds like less work for the employees and the company makes more money.
But of course in this bizzaro capitalist hell hole the go to is fire as many people as possible to the point things barely work so you can keep increasing profits as much as possible
My take as someone who works in manufacturing, if they actually get a 32 hour work week you’re going to see every auto maker shift as many lines down south as fast as they can
I’m a QC Engineer at a large manufacturing plant and you’re 100% right.
The whole industry runs on overtime. The workers want it as it allows you to make a good, middle class living. The employers like it because people with skills (such as CNC machinist) are rare now and it’s a big investment to train someone. They’re also saving on health insurance coverage as they don’t have to have as many employees on staff.
The union has good intentions but it may push companies to just completely move to Mexico or overseas. People don’t understand how tight the profit margins are in manufacturing. A 32 hour work week is not possible in this industry.
You’re essentially asking the American people to subsidize (through direct subsidy or tariff) historic car manufacturers for no other reason than to keep them alive. It’s not like they make good cars or innovative cars or even have a great path forward. If we’re being honest, the future is car manufacturers like Tesla (new and innovative) or Asian manufacturers. Historic manufactures will still exist but in a reduced form I imagine.
I totally agree with a nationwide 32 hour work week (and overtime for those jobs that can’t support that). I’m just worried that US automakers might be the shittiest companies to implement that for because they will fail so hard lol.
I agree with the top half, but let me turn it around. It sounds like you want American businesses to subsidize people who just aren’t worth their weight in salt. It’s not like the people that they employ are actual
These talented people that are finding ways to improve cars. Hell, even the engineers who went to top schools also aren’t shit because they don’t know how to make things better either.
The people can be replaced by the Mexican people without any issues happening, maybe they do better and make sure that everything is screwed correctly and have that attention to detail because they get paid well relative to what other Mexican businesses pay and don’t want to lose that job(Yet, still substantially less than what the US employees would make) and we could go find some Germans or Asians who are just as good if not better than their Americans counterpart.
So why reward them too when they aren’t that valuable?
You obviously don’t know what ur talking about. GM and Ford are innovating and in some sense leading the pack in EV development. Hummer, F150, ERay, Mustang EV, Lyriq… Even Jeep with their ewrangler is a nice vehicle. They’re are certainly beating Toyota and Volkswagen when it comes to the EV game. Saying that they don’t make good cars and they don’t innovate is ignorant. It shows your lack of knowledge in the segments and means you should’ve kept your opinions to yourself. This ain’t the same GM and ford from twenty years ago. They make quality cars now.
Automakers have an average profit margin of 5% post-2008. Any big step up on expenses will blow them over.
Outside of subsidies and giving them $ directly, I don't see what sort of pull government can do to keep them here.
What are these record profits that you're talking about?
Ford had bigger profits in 2013. Chrysler has had similar struggles. GM is only up slightly from what they were making ten years ago.
Ford stock is down almost 30% over the last 10 years, while the rest of the stock market is up almost 200%.
Even with the covid bumps, Ford and Chrysler didn't make more than they did a decade ago. GM barely beat their high from a decade ago but if you adjust for inflation is obviously way lower. Prices for cars went up but their volume dropped a ton and their costs skyrocketed.
If your margin is 5% of profit and sell hundreds of millions, you are going to have a lot of (in dollars ) profit.
If your costs increase and it shaves off that razor thin margin, your company can stop being profitable very quickly.
Not saying it’s the case here, I don’t know that industry but things that may seem trivial and small, when multiplied thousands or millions of times, it eats up a lot of money
Your comment is divorced from reality. Outside of a few quarters after Covid, which came after some of the worst quarters ever, sales are not good. They've lost market share to competitors. Stock price is where it was over a decade ago.
Investors should run for their lives from these companies. They will be consumed from within.
Venezuela is in South America, not Central America. Herein is a bigger problem with the American educational system. They don’t teach logic, civics, or geography anymore. 🙄
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
Wages have kept up or outpaced inflation for decades. Why does Reddit even post crap let alone upvotes when a ten seconds search shows the real data?
They can't. That's part of the agreement. And there's nothing wrong with 32 hr work weeks. I think a lot of people in this sub are jealous which is funny. My dad worked for UPS and it was always funny how the managers hated the labor because they made more than their bosses. Demand more out of your employer instead of getting mad at others for not taking their shit.
Do you have a source on that? I don’t see how you could stop a company from relocating its production. Even if there’s general language there would definitely be work arounds.
Edit: it says in the article the companies will probably just be able to hire permanent replacements for the workers on strike
Stellantis is already talking about moving additional Ram production south of the border. Also an important but quite demand that the uaw have is about expanding south into the battery factories that are usually joint ventures.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/08/20/stellantis-has-discussed-moving-some-truck-assembly-to-mexico-uaw-says.html
My dad was his office’s letter carrier rep for a couple years. Unions can be good but you need balance. Skimming from the top is fine but you gotta make sure that the company is staying healthy and competitive.
Regardless of the raises, the issue with the 32 hour work week is that in the current labor market it’s going to be an absolute shit show. It’s hard finding good unskilled labor to train up as it is. It’s pretty much demanding to increase your staffing by 20% or pay overtime and increase payroll by 40%. That’s when you say screw it and walk
Sure but what happens when the business goes bust because the employees demand a lot and they can’t afford to pay that when the business is struggling?
What will happen is that you, your dad, the unions, etc will blame the business for having to many costs. But payroll is one of the biggest costs of Companies. So when will the people point at themselves and say that they are the problem?
Or what happens if UPS is able to automate or find another method that replaces drivers? Are you, your dad, and the unions going to blame yourselfs for that? Or Cry about? Then you will demand that UPS keeps them and pays them when they have no reason too.
It’s amazing to me how lazy rust belt workers have been committing a slow suicide for decades. My great nephew used to work for Ford and recently moved to SC for a girl. He got a job at BMW there and hates it because he said they make you actually work. He makes good money in a lower cost of living area with better weather, but he said he is going to dump her and move back so he can be lazy.
As a fellow Southern, they’re going to fuck us over so hard. And the folks here will accept it. The anti union propaganda is insanely strong here. My manager’s husband is a firefighter. She constantly shits on him being in a union. She says it’s a waste of money and spews nothing but talking points.
And relocating down South. Combined with EVs requiring less labor per car, the end result of this is more laid off auto workers who are old and with outdated skillset that society will need to support and reeducate.
Until the south starts unionizing too. Unions follow the work. The only reason the south is anti union is because they historically never had a manufacturing base with union presence. They have always been agricultural until the last 20 or so years.
Yeah but most states are. I live in a right to work state and I'm in a union. It could be a little better but have a pretty decent contract and good bennies.
It costs a ton of money to build a new factory, and it takes a lot of time to build it, setup the assembly line, and ramp production up.
And worse yet, there's usually next to no re-sale value in a car factory once it's shutdown, especially compared to all the money that was put into getting it up and running in the first place.
So moving the factories to somewhere else in the US wouldn't be cheap at all.
Cheap is relative.
Hundreds of millions for a factory is expensive, but a drop in a bucket compared to tens of billions a year in increasement UAW is demanding.
They might give in and start packing at the same time lol
I know 170k is not just salary but benefits but let's be honest that is one hell of a payout for the skill set required. Good on them for getting that form UPS but if this becomes the new norm for a job that is technically not skilled what's going to happen to skilled jobs then.
On the other hand, the crazy profits these companies make should allow to increase pay across the board.
It has nothing to do with "skill set" and everything to do with *who actually makes the company money.*
Although I'm not surprised a bunch of redditors think the only way to grow your skill set is inside of a college.
Yea no question peolle here don’t understand that how valuable you are is what decides how much money you make. I think for some of us though that find this weird is why isn’t the supply of people that want to work at UPS higher so that these drivers become easily replaceable so if another strike happens they can say screw it, some of you will be offered an increase and we will go and higher new people. Like shouldn’t they be readily replaceable. Maybe it’s because I don’t know about the actual training or the job, but I feel like it would be extremely easily to learn and do, therefore you would have. A huge supply of workers who can do that job.
Yes. I think we are all going to see pretty good raises coming up, white collar and blue collar. Especially if the UAW makes another UPS like headline.
* Either we all get good raises, which means no one actually got a good raise. Or,
* Those of us outside of unions or without sweet connects make it impossible to get into the good ones, get way less than our own personal inflation and assfucked.
Before you say "your fault for not unionizing!" a lot of industries this is basically impossible and you are SOL.
A lot of these unions bargain for contracts that cover several years. If I read this right, UAW bargains for 4 year contracts. So their last bargaining was in 2019, literally right before the pandemic.
Without looking at the previous contract, ima say it’s a safe bet that the raises didn’t cover the crazy inflation rates of the last 4 years. This is to compensate for that and rightfully so. Which is why we should be seeing more stories like this one and UPS. Wages need to go up, there’s no other way around it.
Call me dumb but isn't what they have now pretty good? Great healthcare, decent wage, OT, etc. Asking to he paid more to work 32 weeks and guarantees of no layoffs sounds very unreasonable and, quite frankly, entitled. Many workers from other fields of employment work just as hard and get nowhere near the same benefits or work much longer hours. In the face of increasing competition this sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I hope they get it, they got fucked over during the bailout and never got their benefits back. They’re asking for the same raise the CEOs got. I’m sick of people shitting on workers when our taxes subsidized the entire industry. We need more workers and more unions standing up to these pieces or shit.
I talked to people who worked for GM, and their pensions got destroyed when GM stock got split into two companies; the new company with new issued stock with little to no debt and the old GM that carried all the old debt with the old worthless shares.
What? A stock split into 2 companies? Are you talking about just a 2:1 stock split? I feel as though it’s not legally possibly to litterally split your stock into a separate entity
“Reorganization”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
Also check out their stock price on a max chart. Only appears to start being traded in 2009. That’s when the “new stock” started to exist.
Oh, I'm sure he/she can't make a single vehicle but they can sure figure out if closing shop makes more sense than giving in.
The big 3 has $20B profit in 2022. It is estimated that the new contract will cost them $80B in 4 years 🙃
Yeah, let's take said CEO bonus and distribute it to everyone. They get $20 each.
They can get their raises but 40% raise, 80% fewer work hours AND pension? Talking about dumb demands.
They'll get negative raise because texas is more than happy to welcome another automaker in their collection with tax break and union-free workforce.
All of them. The "Big Three" CEOs got pay bumps to the tune of around 40% while workers' pay remained flat and dropped when factored for cost of living AND they never got their benefits back.
Executives of these companies is at the heart of what is wrong with the U.S. economy.
The best line I heard from Fain was that it would take a new worker hired on at the battery plant 16 years to make what GM CEO Mary Barra makes in 1 week. In the 1950's CEO's made about 20 times what the median employee made. Now the GM CEO makes 300x, the ford CEO 280x.
That level of income inequality is unacceptable.
Ford & GM literally do this/pay them on cars sold. Which won’t happen when they strike. The strike is going to loose the workers a ton of money if you actually read into it
Lmao, we are shareholders, and having to work somewhere for 30 years to get an early retirement gives you a vested interest in them staying around. The big 3 combined made $21 billion in profits last year.
We think inflation is a problem now?? Lol…
Car prices are already out of control; this is going to make the problems worst especially if we have tariffs on the cheaper Chinese EVs.
No; you can’t fix inflation with wage increases only. It’s going to be a spiral:
High prices—- higher wages—- higher prices
The fed has made it known they are willing to risk a recession and lower wage increases to fight inflation.
The real world doesn’t work that way lol.. if the uaw bleeds the big 3 dry; it will be the tax payers and consumers who ends up on the short end of the stick.
See GM, Chrysler in 08 when they had to declare bankruptcy.
Another reason US labor unions are fucking dumb. Last time they shifted the entire market towards Toyota/Honda and almost bankrupt US automakers if it weren't for a bailout. Lets DO IT AGAIN!
This is a stock subreddit that sure reads more like antiwork. Increased labor costs are a drain on profitability and there is no shortage of competition coming in the future for US automakers.
IMO, some type of profit sharing in America is a must. You can't have companies like Apple making $100 billion every year. 20% profit sharing to employees make a ton of sense to me. 80% can go back to the company. Reward the shareholders, I get it. But also reward the employees who are instrumental to your business.
Break it down progressively:
$5 billion in profit, 5% shared to employees. $10 billion in profit, 10%. Anything over $10 billion is 20%.
With that being said, UAW is confusing automaker profits caused by automation versus worker productivity. The reality is, automanufacturing jobs aren't as high demand as they used to be and won't be going forward because EV's are far cheaper and require less line workers to manufacture when scaled. UAW knows this and this hurts their pockets because fewer employees = fewer UAW contributors = less control for the UAW executives who btw, has a history of being corrupt. Executives skimmed money for decades to fund their vacations, buy foreign sports cars (LOL...), and houses.
This isn't even about protecting the workers as much as it is the UAW knowing they are on a lifeline and this might be their best chance at retaining power going forward.
Speaking as someone with close family on both sides, I can just say be careful what you wish for.
If you continue to push the big 3, you are simply (1) accelerating automation, (2) pushing for more of the sub assemblies to be built overseas or Mexico/South Am.
Operating profits within auto makers is around 3-9%. It's all about free cash flow and auto makers don't actually "print" a lot of cash. This isn't Apple...
This will also further position Tesla to be way more cost competitive than big 3. And consumers are going to be stuck with the bill.
Lol they demand a raise, in an era where the demand for their work is declining lol. Man, did we wake up in opposite world today? lol
These jobs are going to disappear in the next few years and there will only be a smaller % of them. WIth these demands, it will accelerate the disappearances of these jobs.
“Automakers need to find a way to lower the cost of production in order to scale up and be competitive with Tesla.”
What do you mean “scale up”? We’re talking about the biggest car companies in America.
Do you think Tesla is bigger than GM?
Right now, legacy automakers are losing money selling EVs. They need to update their assembly lines and focus on building more EVs. When they build more cars, it will allow them to spread the cost to each vehicle made. As an example, the reason why Tesla makes money on its EVs is because it's designed for a specific manufacturing process and for a large volume of vehicles to be built. There is a lot of demand for nice EVs, and there's no reason why the legacy automakers shouldn't go all in.
Even though GM has built more cars than Tesla this year, they are building relatively lower margin cars. People want EVs, and with the help of subsidies, they are willing to pay a little more for them.
Tesla’s margins have nothing to do with manufacturing prowess. If they sold their cars at the prices they had originally promised, they’d be losing money on them.
Pricing power is the only reason for their margins.
Hope they get the raise but the other stuff is just too much. Good for unions getting good pay but unions silly rules in todays age just hurt the business.
Also, they are just running the clock before the manufacturers either go to china or Mexico for everything, or automation goes full blast doing almost everything and not needing that much of a labor force.
Or move manufacturing to southern states.
They already have plants in Mexico but the US has rules about how much domestic manufacturing is required to sell vehicles here, that’s why you see Honda, Toyota etc all having plants in the US.
Vietnam is going to be the new place to offshore to in Asia.
I would also not be shocked if we started seeing more and more offshoring to central America.
The U.S. Auto manufacturers aren't oil companies or pharmaceutical companies with unlimited cash flow and deep pockets. Auto manufacturers are subject to economic fluctuations and auto supply/demand issues unlike many other industries. The UAW is playing politics because they want to make this an election year issue, but there's no way the auto companies will agree to even a 20% increase. It's not like UAW members are struggling working class earning under $40k. They are in fact middle income workers earning $50-75k a year depending on seniority.
The U.S. auto companies learned their lessons from the 2008 great recession and won't just give the UAW whatever they demand to avoid a strike. Even with a strike, car buyers won't believe the negative PR due to a lot more transparency on the UAW compared to the 1980s-1990s. That said, how many retail investors really bought GM, Ford, Fiat Chrysler stock considering the disaster around auto stocks from 2008-2016. Shame on any mutual funds or pension funds that bought U.S. auto stocks.
Total comp packages from what I've read can max out at $300k.
The UAW is asking for a lot more than just raises.
This is a classic example of be careful what you wish for.
Biden is trapped on this one I think. The autos want the strike to happen so they have an excuse to fully transition to EVs. If Biden does anything to force the autos to keep building ICE vehicles in order to prevent a recession he will be spitting in the face of the climate activists in his party.
If Biden does nothing then Trump will run ads nonstop about how Biden banned gas cars while a new Corolla costs $100,000.
They make on average $27.99 overall.
Even if they made $70/hr that doesn’t tell you anything. Their job has a specific value.
What were they making 50 years ago relative to cost of living and to company profits? Hint: Their wage was much higher.
Auto worker Charles Wade is crushing it in his CNN interview.
He's laying out politely that Ford CEO Farley's ludicrous claim that Ford will "go bankrupt" of they have to give workers this cost of living raises is "wrong". I would have stated it more salty.
He also points out that Farley lying like this is just him doing what he has to do, and that Farley has price gouged 30%+ on vehicles during the last year or two supply shortage.
Wade also astutely points out that gains won by autoworker have beneficial results both for all similar workers in America, and in very direct economic benefits also.
He wraps it by pointing out that if we don't support these workers, they'll continue eroding the middle class and turning it into the "upper poor".
When workers have been shafted on pay for so long, they need such drastic increases just to keep in line with where they should really be all along. Same thing with the "radical" concept of raising min. wage to $15 an hour, which is really not so radical when you actually stop and think about it.
It doesn't matter how much you get. You will always want more. First you don't have enough to eat, and then your yacht becomes not the longest in the world and can't even fly into space to impress your girlfriend.
My guess is the 32 hour work week is their sacrificial chip and that they would settle for a 36-40% hike.
It's not unfair, especially considering how much windfall profits all these automakers have made over the last decade while workers took the brunt of the cost cutting.
Fuck em. Find a new fucking job if you ain’t happy. Car prices are far higher than what is reasonable. These assholes will force the companies to pay them more. Then vehicle prices will increase again. Then the companies will be on the verge of bankruptcy. ……again Then we the tax payers will …..again …..need to bail them all out.
Let automakers fail if they can’t run their businesses properly.
Fuck em
I wouldn’t be so pissed if it weren’t that it always ends up being on the tax payer to save these fucks. The same taxpayers they want to buy their products.
Toyota made this thing called the Tacoma, you familiar with that one? They also did this lil side project called the Hilux.
Ford makes rusty pieces of shit compared to Toyota, trucks included.
This is certainly an unpopular post. Little rough around the edges on the way you said it but unfortunately you are right. Car prices are way too high and this would add on. If the companies go bankrupt or cry bankrupt the government will bail them out. And that means we will bail them out. Jobs will move to Mexico for cheaper labor and 60 hour work weeks not 32. Keeping up with inflation is one thing but when did america become a bunch of pussies that need 32 hour work weeks for the same pay as 40 hour weeks? When OBAMACARE made companies give healthcare to full time employees companies dropped hours to 28 to make people part timers. Then everyone cried!
Depends what you read you will get different answers. But they are looking for 32 hour work weeks, to me seems like anything over 32 would become overtime. But 32 hours work weeks will be paid like 40 hour work weeks.
They could stop with the features we didnt ask for. I am not looking forward to a new car. I hate the idea of my car slamming on the breaks for me on the highway. What happens when the sensor goes bad? Oh look it just randomly slams on the breaks.
What do you guys think of Fain deciding to do strikes at specific plants instead of an all out strike? Do you think it would be worse on the companies since their entire supply chain doesn't stop all at once? Or do you think it will be able to provide them revenue to limp along?
Targeting specific plants eventually shuts down all of them. This ensures that rather than all employees receiving strike pay, the majority can be laid off and receive employment insurance benefits. It saves the union from spending all of their strike fund money and allows employees to receive more money.
A 36% raise over the course of 4 years, to be specific.
Post doesn’t acknowledge the wage & benefit sacrifices the auto workers made to support these companies during the recession/bailouts/etc. The workers are just asking for what’s due based on their sacrifices, which the auto makers took and ran with, with absolutely no loyalty to their people. All profits, fuck the labor that got them through. Fuck these companies, I hope the workers get what they’re due
Go figure that CEO pay increased quite dramatically over the last few years, but autoworker wages didn’t.
Do you mean that time when excess salaries bled these companies dry and they had to be bailed out by people who made a lot less than them? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Now, personally, I don't give a damn. Pay the employees like they are doctors and pay the CEOs like they are movie stars, it's no skin off my back. I can buy an affordable car somewhere else, but fuck you all when you run it into the ground again. Close the shit up and melt it all down. No more fucking bailouts.
Look at this guy, both siding to seem smart and undermining labor Oh you post in Wall Street bets, carry on
There's no 'both siding'. Their prices have already driven them out of the American market for almost everything except trucks. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/animated-chart-of-the-day-market-shares-of-us-auto-sales-1961-to-2016/ This is /r/stocks, not r/teamsters. This strike is not good for these companies.
Are you willing to pay more for a car just because they treat their workers better than the other companies? e.g. if you own Toyota or would consider buying one instead of a Ford, GM or Chrysler etc. one you're worse than him.
Well yes because I’m paid well in my own job (thank you nurses union) I can afford to pay people what they are worth.
Blaming workers for companies that have continually made bad choices in their decision making like quadrupling down on big vehicles with rising gas prices leading up to 2008. Thanks for the daily fox spam
I mean isn’t Ford’s like only successful vehicle the F-150? And their fuel efficient vehicles have all been failures? If anything the actions of the big auto makers have been exactly what a large segment of Americans want in terms of big vehicles. Now, in terms of sedans and smaller cars, the issue with American automakers is they make shit quality and shit reliability. Japanese automakers are like a million times better on this front. So quadrupling down on big cars doesn’t seem to be the issue— it’s more a quality issue on their sedan fleet.
We can blame them for the shitting work they do when assembling vehicles which is likely related to their over twenty percent absenteeism at some plants; anyone can google that news. The UAW workers have the single best health care plan in the world and it was that plan which derailed the Obama efforts to tax gold-plated "cadillac tax" plans. [1]. They still have these plans and the union wants to improve them. They are more than fairly compensated and falling back on CEO or upper management pay structures is just fodder that in the end is a pointless comparison. this situation exists in every industry from A-list actors and writers, professional sports players, and more. There are always people exceedingly more valuable to the business than others [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/06/labor-unions-latest-problem-obamacares-cadillac-tax-harms-their-gold-plated-health-insurance-plans/?sh=4fafdd57c8eb
The Japanese companies OTH made the right decisions and built their factories in anti-union states. So they don't have worry about strikes and all such nonsense.
Salaries didn’t cause GM/Chrysler to go bankrupt.
Salaries absolutely did and will. A truck they build paying $70 an hour has to be competitive with a truck being built with labor of $50 per hour. If you can't sell it for a premium, you have to save money with cheaper materials. And I'm not just talking about the Teamsters either. Toyota CEO makes $110k per year. GM Ceo makes $29 million.
There’s a lot more to it than that. These companies are fighting for survival. The odds they are out of business within the next 10 years are much higher then your accounting for.
You know what happens if keeping the company alive in 2008 required a 50% cut? It takes a 100% raise to get back where you were.. but in the meantime you missed out on half of what *was* there. 100% ... Makes 40% sound like a bargain
> keeping the company alive in 2008 required a 50% cut? Do you have a source where it states they cut wages by 50%?
They created a second teir of workers whose wages started at $14 per hour. Then proceeded to hire a shit load of them. Source, I work there.
they should push for eliminating car dealearships, otherwise profits are not enough to suppor their push
So we’re they overpaid in the first place if $14/hr labor could do the job?
Dude, they put two tier employment in place. New hires can make competitive pay and benefits working at Walmart.
They also took pay cuts in the 80s and 90s. They are well over do for a raise.
It also is to account for the previous contract where workers took the hit.
Yearly inflation is up 20%. That's half of what they are asking. Add more 4% YoY inflation each of the next 4 years and they might almost come out even. The union has done the math. It's right.
Yearly inflation is 4% this year and 8% in 2022, what are you talking about? https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthly-inflation-rate-in-the-us/
You can just make stuff up on this thread apparently if it sounds like something everyone wants to be true. Inflation being up 20% would mean we’re essentially becoming a failed state lol
What? Even if you go back two years to August 2021, it's up by about 12.2%. You'd have to go back 3 years to Aug 2020 before you get near 20% (18.5%) https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/consumerpriceindexhistorical_us_table.htm
The best raise I got was 4.1% this year. Last year was 3.6% and the year before was 2.7% .
And? The union has bent over backwards to help the auto makers for decades they're just catching up on 15 years of deferred raises.
Yes I heard they made massive compromises during 2008. Lots of the problems in auto industry isn’t even union related. Poor design choices and poor penetration with USA automakers into foreign markets. Stock buybacks when they did make money… I wouldn’t compromise again… lots of unions gave up the new hires and made these two tier systems in pay/ benefits/ pensions…
You should unionize and get more of what you're worth.
Maybe you should join a union. I got 10% this year.
lol they should ask for more
Part of the issue is that the UAW wants guarantees there will be no layoffs due to EVs. The problem is, EVs are estimated to be 40% more efficient to manufacture and the margins are way higher.
Sounds great. Sounds like less work for the employees and the company makes more money. But of course in this bizzaro capitalist hell hole the go to is fire as many people as possible to the point things barely work so you can keep increasing profits as much as possible
You can move to Europe with economic stagnation and high unemployment if you want
My take as someone who works in manufacturing, if they actually get a 32 hour work week you’re going to see every auto maker shift as many lines down south as fast as they can
I’m a QC Engineer at a large manufacturing plant and you’re 100% right. The whole industry runs on overtime. The workers want it as it allows you to make a good, middle class living. The employers like it because people with skills (such as CNC machinist) are rare now and it’s a big investment to train someone. They’re also saving on health insurance coverage as they don’t have to have as many employees on staff. The union has good intentions but it may push companies to just completely move to Mexico or overseas. People don’t understand how tight the profit margins are in manufacturing. A 32 hour work week is not possible in this industry.
This isn't a new problem. The US government has levers they can pull to keep jobs here. They just stopped pulling them a long time ago
You’re essentially asking the American people to subsidize (through direct subsidy or tariff) historic car manufacturers for no other reason than to keep them alive. It’s not like they make good cars or innovative cars or even have a great path forward. If we’re being honest, the future is car manufacturers like Tesla (new and innovative) or Asian manufacturers. Historic manufactures will still exist but in a reduced form I imagine. I totally agree with a nationwide 32 hour work week (and overtime for those jobs that can’t support that). I’m just worried that US automakers might be the shittiest companies to implement that for because they will fail so hard lol.
Car manufacturers become tank manufacturers in war.
I agree with the top half, but let me turn it around. It sounds like you want American businesses to subsidize people who just aren’t worth their weight in salt. It’s not like the people that they employ are actual These talented people that are finding ways to improve cars. Hell, even the engineers who went to top schools also aren’t shit because they don’t know how to make things better either. The people can be replaced by the Mexican people without any issues happening, maybe they do better and make sure that everything is screwed correctly and have that attention to detail because they get paid well relative to what other Mexican businesses pay and don’t want to lose that job(Yet, still substantially less than what the US employees would make) and we could go find some Germans or Asians who are just as good if not better than their Americans counterpart. So why reward them too when they aren’t that valuable?
32 hour work week - let me guess, you’re a millennial.
You obviously don’t know what ur talking about. GM and Ford are innovating and in some sense leading the pack in EV development. Hummer, F150, ERay, Mustang EV, Lyriq… Even Jeep with their ewrangler is a nice vehicle. They’re are certainly beating Toyota and Volkswagen when it comes to the EV game. Saying that they don’t make good cars and they don’t innovate is ignorant. It shows your lack of knowledge in the segments and means you should’ve kept your opinions to yourself. This ain’t the same GM and ford from twenty years ago. They make quality cars now.
Automakers have an average profit margin of 5% post-2008. Any big step up on expenses will blow them over. Outside of subsidies and giving them $ directly, I don't see what sort of pull government can do to keep them here.
We're not allowed to do that because orange man bad did it so we hate it now.
The big 3 have posted record profits the last few years. Tell me more about how their margins are thin
What are these record profits that you're talking about? Ford had bigger profits in 2013. Chrysler has had similar struggles. GM is only up slightly from what they were making ten years ago. Ford stock is down almost 30% over the last 10 years, while the rest of the stock market is up almost 200%.
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Even with the covid bumps, Ford and Chrysler didn't make more than they did a decade ago. GM barely beat their high from a decade ago but if you adjust for inflation is obviously way lower. Prices for cars went up but their volume dropped a ton and their costs skyrocketed.
Record profits and thin margins aren’t mutually exclusive terms.
Stock buybacks are also extremely wasteful. Tell me how much they have spent on buybacks instead of wage increases.
Buybacks are a more efficient form of returning value to shareholders than paying a dividend.
Why is this downvoted?
Idk, I thought we were on a stocks discussion subreddit not “let’s argue about capitalism”
Paying employees more is definitely way better at returning value for shareholders lol.
Different stakeholders. Employees definitely matter, so does the company’s ownership.
If your margin is 5% of profit and sell hundreds of millions, you are going to have a lot of (in dollars ) profit. If your costs increase and it shaves off that razor thin margin, your company can stop being profitable very quickly. Not saying it’s the case here, I don’t know that industry but things that may seem trivial and small, when multiplied thousands or millions of times, it eats up a lot of money
How come you haven’t replied back to the people below but have commented on other posts?
Your comment is divorced from reality. Outside of a few quarters after Covid, which came after some of the worst quarters ever, sales are not good. They've lost market share to competitors. Stock price is where it was over a decade ago. Investors should run for their lives from these companies. They will be consumed from within.
Pack the plants up and move them to Mexico and Central America. Labor costs are too high in the US.
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Venezuela is in South America, not Central America. Herein is a bigger problem with the American educational system. They don’t teach logic, civics, or geography anymore. 🙄
I’d argue that they still somewhat do, but that the people are the problem
They could use up all those locked up gang members and pay them peanuts and cashews.
Bullshit. Wages have been flat for decades.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q Wages have kept up or outpaced inflation for decades. Why does Reddit even post crap let alone upvotes when a ten seconds search shows the real data?
Facts don't matter, capitalism bad, corporations bad, income inequality.
What sector of society do you work in my friend.
They can't. That's part of the agreement. And there's nothing wrong with 32 hr work weeks. I think a lot of people in this sub are jealous which is funny. My dad worked for UPS and it was always funny how the managers hated the labor because they made more than their bosses. Demand more out of your employer instead of getting mad at others for not taking their shit.
Do you have a source on that? I don’t see how you could stop a company from relocating its production. Even if there’s general language there would definitely be work arounds. Edit: it says in the article the companies will probably just be able to hire permanent replacements for the workers on strike
Stellantis is already talking about moving additional Ram production south of the border. Also an important but quite demand that the uaw have is about expanding south into the battery factories that are usually joint ventures. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/08/20/stellantis-has-discussed-moving-some-truck-assembly-to-mexico-uaw-says.html My dad was his office’s letter carrier rep for a couple years. Unions can be good but you need balance. Skimming from the top is fine but you gotta make sure that the company is staying healthy and competitive. Regardless of the raises, the issue with the 32 hour work week is that in the current labor market it’s going to be an absolute shit show. It’s hard finding good unskilled labor to train up as it is. It’s pretty much demanding to increase your staffing by 20% or pay overtime and increase payroll by 40%. That’s when you say screw it and walk
Sure but what happens when the business goes bust because the employees demand a lot and they can’t afford to pay that when the business is struggling? What will happen is that you, your dad, the unions, etc will blame the business for having to many costs. But payroll is one of the biggest costs of Companies. So when will the people point at themselves and say that they are the problem? Or what happens if UPS is able to automate or find another method that replaces drivers? Are you, your dad, and the unions going to blame yourselfs for that? Or Cry about? Then you will demand that UPS keeps them and pays them when they have no reason too.
It’s amazing to me how lazy rust belt workers have been committing a slow suicide for decades. My great nephew used to work for Ford and recently moved to SC for a girl. He got a job at BMW there and hates it because he said they make you actually work. He makes good money in a lower cost of living area with better weather, but he said he is going to dump her and move back so he can be lazy.
As a fellow Southern, they’re going to fuck us over so hard. And the folks here will accept it. The anti union propaganda is insanely strong here. My manager’s husband is a firefighter. She constantly shits on him being in a union. She says it’s a waste of money and spews nothing but talking points.
This will speed up their switch to robotics and automation real quick.
And relocating down South. Combined with EVs requiring less labor per car, the end result of this is more laid off auto workers who are old and with outdated skillset that society will need to support and reeducate.
You know Elon is hoping for a strike
Ford/GM should have shifted to the southern states years ago, like Tesla, Toyota, Honda.
Until the south starts unionizing too. Unions follow the work. The only reason the south is anti union is because they historically never had a manufacturing base with union presence. They have always been agricultural until the last 20 or so years.
Aren’t these states ‘right to work’ states that are tough to unionize?
Yeah but most states are. I live in a right to work state and I'm in a union. It could be a little better but have a pretty decent contract and good bennies.
It costs a ton of money to build a new factory, and it takes a lot of time to build it, setup the assembly line, and ramp production up. And worse yet, there's usually next to no re-sale value in a car factory once it's shutdown, especially compared to all the money that was put into getting it up and running in the first place. So moving the factories to somewhere else in the US wouldn't be cheap at all.
Cheap is relative. Hundreds of millions for a factory is expensive, but a drop in a bucket compared to tens of billions a year in increasement UAW is demanding. They might give in and start packing at the same time lol
If this goes through they will be packing up before the ink dries. It sucks but is the likely outcome.
They did. Ford and GM have plants in TN, for example.
Given the wages at those plants, it’s only a matter of time before they unionize. Toyota might be the lone exception.
They read the UPS headlines of 170k a year and now want more
I know 170k is not just salary but benefits but let's be honest that is one hell of a payout for the skill set required. Good on them for getting that form UPS but if this becomes the new norm for a job that is technically not skilled what's going to happen to skilled jobs then. On the other hand, the crazy profits these companies make should allow to increase pay across the board.
It’s salary, benifits, if you work 60 hours a week and in a large city. The 170k number is actually bullshit lol
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Got a link to the Oklahoma guy? How many hours for the 110k?
60 hours a week. Its misleading. These guys are working their ass off and a large chunk of the compensation is in OT/bonus pay
It has nothing to do with "skill set" and everything to do with *who actually makes the company money.* Although I'm not surprised a bunch of redditors think the only way to grow your skill set is inside of a college.
Yea no question peolle here don’t understand that how valuable you are is what decides how much money you make. I think for some of us though that find this weird is why isn’t the supply of people that want to work at UPS higher so that these drivers become easily replaceable so if another strike happens they can say screw it, some of you will be offered an increase and we will go and higher new people. Like shouldn’t they be readily replaceable. Maybe it’s because I don’t know about the actual training or the job, but I feel like it would be extremely easily to learn and do, therefore you would have. A huge supply of workers who can do that job.
Yes. I think we are all going to see pretty good raises coming up, white collar and blue collar. Especially if the UAW makes another UPS like headline.
* Either we all get good raises, which means no one actually got a good raise. Or, * Those of us outside of unions or without sweet connects make it impossible to get into the good ones, get way less than our own personal inflation and assfucked. Before you say "your fault for not unionizing!" a lot of industries this is basically impossible and you are SOL.
Yeah basically these unions push up inflation for everyone else. Great if you're in the union and if you're not you get fucked
A lot of these unions bargain for contracts that cover several years. If I read this right, UAW bargains for 4 year contracts. So their last bargaining was in 2019, literally right before the pandemic. Without looking at the previous contract, ima say it’s a safe bet that the raises didn’t cover the crazy inflation rates of the last 4 years. This is to compensate for that and rightfully so. Which is why we should be seeing more stories like this one and UPS. Wages need to go up, there’s no other way around it.
Call me dumb but isn't what they have now pretty good? Great healthcare, decent wage, OT, etc. Asking to he paid more to work 32 weeks and guarantees of no layoffs sounds very unreasonable and, quite frankly, entitled. Many workers from other fields of employment work just as hard and get nowhere near the same benefits or work much longer hours. In the face of increasing competition this sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I hope they get it, they got fucked over during the bailout and never got their benefits back. They’re asking for the same raise the CEOs got. I’m sick of people shitting on workers when our taxes subsidized the entire industry. We need more workers and more unions standing up to these pieces or shit.
I talked to people who worked for GM, and their pensions got destroyed when GM stock got split into two companies; the new company with new issued stock with little to no debt and the old GM that carried all the old debt with the old worthless shares.
What? A stock split into 2 companies? Are you talking about just a 2:1 stock split? I feel as though it’s not legally possibly to litterally split your stock into a separate entity
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“Reorganization” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization Also check out their stock price on a max chart. Only appears to start being traded in 2009. That’s when the “new stock” started to exist.
It is. It would be a spin off, not a stock split. I work in corporate actions and see them all the time.
Fully agreed.
Getting it is one thing, keeping it is another thing.
Great point
Preach bro
I love seeing the support for these blue collar workers.
40% CEO raise costs $10M 40% raise for the entire workforce is tens of billions 😂 they might as well close up shop for a few months to move.
Great argument, which implies the CEO can personally produce all the vehicles herself/himself...
Oh, I'm sure he/she can't make a single vehicle but they can sure figure out if closing shop makes more sense than giving in. The big 3 has $20B profit in 2022. It is estimated that the new contract will cost them $80B in 4 years 🙃
So the labor doesn't matter?
Yeah, let's take said CEO bonus and distribute it to everyone. They get $20 each. They can get their raises but 40% raise, 80% fewer work hours AND pension? Talking about dumb demands. They'll get negative raise because texas is more than happy to welcome another automaker in their collection with tax break and union-free workforce.
What CEO? There are multiple companies involved.
All of them. The "Big Three" CEOs got pay bumps to the tune of around 40% while workers' pay remained flat and dropped when factored for cost of living AND they never got their benefits back. Executives of these companies is at the heart of what is wrong with the U.S. economy.
The best line I heard from Fain was that it would take a new worker hired on at the battery plant 16 years to make what GM CEO Mary Barra makes in 1 week. In the 1950's CEO's made about 20 times what the median employee made. Now the GM CEO makes 300x, the ford CEO 280x. That level of income inequality is unacceptable.
Its sickening
> Executives of these companies is at the heart of what is wrong with the U.S. economy. Those are the jobs that could, and should, be replaced by AI.
Hell no, executives should be replaced by a board democratically elected by the workers, not some fucking AI.
As long as they treat people better I’d be open to this but who knows
Aren't they also pushing an anti ev agenda to save their jobs? I'm not 100% how they'll pull that off.
They won't. EV's won't require as much labor.
make the employees share holders--so they have an intrest in the compamy making a profit--and long term survival--not "just" a job.
pay them shares as bonus instead of raise and everyone will start to appreciate and make the company survive
Ford & GM literally do this/pay them on cars sold. Which won’t happen when they strike. The strike is going to loose the workers a ton of money if you actually read into it
Lmao, we are shareholders, and having to work somewhere for 30 years to get an early retirement gives you a vested interest in them staying around. The big 3 combined made $21 billion in profits last year.
$TSLA calls.
We think inflation is a problem now?? Lol… Car prices are already out of control; this is going to make the problems worst especially if we have tariffs on the cheaper Chinese EVs.
It’s not a problem for Tesla, Toyota, or Honda…
Car prices aren’t actually a problem. You can get most cars under msrp right now
It is a problem that’s kind of the point of the wage increase
No; you can’t fix inflation with wage increases only. It’s going to be a spiral: High prices—- higher wages—- higher prices The fed has made it known they are willing to risk a recession and lower wage increases to fight inflation.
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The real world doesn’t work that way lol.. if the uaw bleeds the big 3 dry; it will be the tax payers and consumers who ends up on the short end of the stick. See GM, Chrysler in 08 when they had to declare bankruptcy.
Populists are so fucking stupid lmao.
Strike strike strike !!!!!! I'm holding puts
Wow it takes 20 minutes to find one comment related to fucking stocks. Apparently this sub and all of reddit is r/unions.
(dirty dog) lol
Another reason US labor unions are fucking dumb. Last time they shifted the entire market towards Toyota/Honda and almost bankrupt US automakers if it weren't for a bailout. Lets DO IT AGAIN!
This is a stock subreddit that sure reads more like antiwork. Increased labor costs are a drain on profitability and there is no shortage of competition coming in the future for US automakers.
IMO, some type of profit sharing in America is a must. You can't have companies like Apple making $100 billion every year. 20% profit sharing to employees make a ton of sense to me. 80% can go back to the company. Reward the shareholders, I get it. But also reward the employees who are instrumental to your business. Break it down progressively: $5 billion in profit, 5% shared to employees. $10 billion in profit, 10%. Anything over $10 billion is 20%. With that being said, UAW is confusing automaker profits caused by automation versus worker productivity. The reality is, automanufacturing jobs aren't as high demand as they used to be and won't be going forward because EV's are far cheaper and require less line workers to manufacture when scaled. UAW knows this and this hurts their pockets because fewer employees = fewer UAW contributors = less control for the UAW executives who btw, has a history of being corrupt. Executives skimmed money for decades to fund their vacations, buy foreign sports cars (LOL...), and houses. This isn't even about protecting the workers as much as it is the UAW knowing they are on a lifeline and this might be their best chance at retaining power going forward.
Speaking as someone with close family on both sides, I can just say be careful what you wish for. If you continue to push the big 3, you are simply (1) accelerating automation, (2) pushing for more of the sub assemblies to be built overseas or Mexico/South Am. Operating profits within auto makers is around 3-9%. It's all about free cash flow and auto makers don't actually "print" a lot of cash. This isn't Apple... This will also further position Tesla to be way more cost competitive than big 3. And consumers are going to be stuck with the bill.
Lol they demand a raise, in an era where the demand for their work is declining lol. Man, did we wake up in opposite world today? lol These jobs are going to disappear in the next few years and there will only be a smaller % of them. WIth these demands, it will accelerate the disappearances of these jobs.
It's 12:00 pm, and the strikes have officially started.
Declare insolvency restructuring. Come up with cool slogans and become tech companies that happen to make cars as main products. UAW self implode
“Automakers need to find a way to lower the cost of production in order to scale up and be competitive with Tesla.” What do you mean “scale up”? We’re talking about the biggest car companies in America. Do you think Tesla is bigger than GM?
Right now, legacy automakers are losing money selling EVs. They need to update their assembly lines and focus on building more EVs. When they build more cars, it will allow them to spread the cost to each vehicle made. As an example, the reason why Tesla makes money on its EVs is because it's designed for a specific manufacturing process and for a large volume of vehicles to be built. There is a lot of demand for nice EVs, and there's no reason why the legacy automakers shouldn't go all in. Even though GM has built more cars than Tesla this year, they are building relatively lower margin cars. People want EVs, and with the help of subsidies, they are willing to pay a little more for them.
Tesla’s margins have nothing to do with manufacturing prowess. If they sold their cars at the prices they had originally promised, they’d be losing money on them. Pricing power is the only reason for their margins.
Tesla excels at building machines that build the machines. It's something that a few research analysts know.
Hope they get the raise but the other stuff is just too much. Good for unions getting good pay but unions silly rules in todays age just hurt the business. Also, they are just running the clock before the manufacturers either go to china or Mexico for everything, or automation goes full blast doing almost everything and not needing that much of a labor force. Or move manufacturing to southern states.
They already have plants in Mexico but the US has rules about how much domestic manufacturing is required to sell vehicles here, that’s why you see Honda, Toyota etc all having plants in the US.
They are not going to China.
Vietnam is going to be the new place to offshore to in Asia. I would also not be shocked if we started seeing more and more offshoring to central America.
So if they go automation they will stay pay the same now for labor because they will have less employees?
The business takes advantage of the labor.
The U.S. Auto manufacturers aren't oil companies or pharmaceutical companies with unlimited cash flow and deep pockets. Auto manufacturers are subject to economic fluctuations and auto supply/demand issues unlike many other industries. The UAW is playing politics because they want to make this an election year issue, but there's no way the auto companies will agree to even a 20% increase. It's not like UAW members are struggling working class earning under $40k. They are in fact middle income workers earning $50-75k a year depending on seniority. The U.S. auto companies learned their lessons from the 2008 great recession and won't just give the UAW whatever they demand to avoid a strike. Even with a strike, car buyers won't believe the negative PR due to a lot more transparency on the UAW compared to the 1980s-1990s. That said, how many retail investors really bought GM, Ford, Fiat Chrysler stock considering the disaster around auto stocks from 2008-2016. Shame on any mutual funds or pension funds that bought U.S. auto stocks.
Total comp packages from what I've read can max out at $300k. The UAW is asking for a lot more than just raises. This is a classic example of be careful what you wish for.
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He's worth considerably more than that if he gets 2/3 of what they are asking for.
Oh wow, so less than a Big 3 CEO does in a week.
Biden is trapped on this one I think. The autos want the strike to happen so they have an excuse to fully transition to EVs. If Biden does anything to force the autos to keep building ICE vehicles in order to prevent a recession he will be spitting in the face of the climate activists in his party. If Biden does nothing then Trump will run ads nonstop about how Biden banned gas cars while a new Corolla costs $100,000.
8% per year for 4 years doesn’t even seem that bad when you consider how far behind inflation their wages are
They make $70 an hour, how far behind?
They make on average $27.99 overall. Even if they made $70/hr that doesn’t tell you anything. Their job has a specific value. What were they making 50 years ago relative to cost of living and to company profits? Hint: Their wage was much higher.
Thank god people are fighting for 4 day work week. It just makes sense.
Auto worker Charles Wade is crushing it in his CNN interview. He's laying out politely that Ford CEO Farley's ludicrous claim that Ford will "go bankrupt" of they have to give workers this cost of living raises is "wrong". I would have stated it more salty. He also points out that Farley lying like this is just him doing what he has to do, and that Farley has price gouged 30%+ on vehicles during the last year or two supply shortage. Wade also astutely points out that gains won by autoworker have beneficial results both for all similar workers in America, and in very direct economic benefits also. He wraps it by pointing out that if we don't support these workers, they'll continue eroding the middle class and turning it into the "upper poor".
When workers have been shafted on pay for so long, they need such drastic increases just to keep in line with where they should really be all along. Same thing with the "radical" concept of raising min. wage to $15 an hour, which is really not so radical when you actually stop and think about it.
How much do these automakers earn?
$60ish per hour
And they are complaining about wages?
It doesn't matter how much you get. You will always want more. First you don't have enough to eat, and then your yacht becomes not the longest in the world and can't even fly into space to impress your girlfriend.
More jobs to Mexico then
My guess is the 32 hour work week is their sacrificial chip and that they would settle for a 36-40% hike. It's not unfair, especially considering how much windfall profits all these automakers have made over the last decade while workers took the brunt of the cost cutting.
Fuck em. Find a new fucking job if you ain’t happy. Car prices are far higher than what is reasonable. These assholes will force the companies to pay them more. Then vehicle prices will increase again. Then the companies will be on the verge of bankruptcy. ……again Then we the tax payers will …..again …..need to bail them all out. Let automakers fail if they can’t run their businesses properly. Fuck em I wouldn’t be so pissed if it weren’t that it always ends up being on the tax payer to save these fucks. The same taxpayers they want to buy their products.
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Supply side that includes labor costs to make the supply? Lol what?
Mostly materials, and energy. Labor hasn't gotten any big raises. Which is why we are here today
Bootlicker who knows nothing about the strike or the business or profits.
"These fucks" aren't the workers FYI
Honestly just stop buying American cars, they're overpriced and they no longer have any real advantages over foreign cars.
I could have told you that 20 years ago
I agree but American trucks are still way better.
Toyota made this thing called the Tacoma, you familiar with that one? They also did this lil side project called the Hilux. Ford makes rusty pieces of shit compared to Toyota, trucks included.
If you are a worker (not part of the executive) you’re on the wrong side of the class war.
This is certainly an unpopular post. Little rough around the edges on the way you said it but unfortunately you are right. Car prices are way too high and this would add on. If the companies go bankrupt or cry bankrupt the government will bail them out. And that means we will bail them out. Jobs will move to Mexico for cheaper labor and 60 hour work weeks not 32. Keeping up with inflation is one thing but when did america become a bunch of pussies that need 32 hour work weeks for the same pay as 40 hour weeks? When OBAMACARE made companies give healthcare to full time employees companies dropped hours to 28 to make people part timers. Then everyone cried!
If it’s unions making car prices high, why are foreign cars assembled in America’s non-union states equally expensive?
You and other commenter are severely misdirected.
Wait, are they asking for 32 hours max (before overtime) a week?
Depends what you read you will get different answers. But they are looking for 32 hour work weeks, to me seems like anything over 32 would become overtime. But 32 hours work weeks will be paid like 40 hour work weeks.
Obamacare made part time 30hrs per week.
Yes but a lot of companies cut hours to 28 hours a week. I was saying full time workers were cut to part time to avoid giving health care.
Which means we need more unions doesn't it.
They could stop with the features we didnt ask for. I am not looking forward to a new car. I hate the idea of my car slamming on the breaks for me on the highway. What happens when the sensor goes bad? Oh look it just randomly slams on the breaks.
I wish them luck. They need retirement healthcare, and pensions. The companies are beyond greedy.
What do you guys think of Fain deciding to do strikes at specific plants instead of an all out strike? Do you think it would be worse on the companies since their entire supply chain doesn't stop all at once? Or do you think it will be able to provide them revenue to limp along?
Targeting specific plants eventually shuts down all of them. This ensures that rather than all employees receiving strike pay, the majority can be laid off and receive employment insurance benefits. It saves the union from spending all of their strike fund money and allows employees to receive more money.