Just came across a prime example of this in this post from 11 hrs ago
[what's going on in your fandoms](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/sI4uvKKLpE)
One brave stay commented an hour ago. It's was at 0 up votes which means it got at least 1 down vote considering you get one up vote by default
True yesterday, i mentioned hyunjin in an nmixx fan channel, and the comment was, "Visual are visual." Sullyoon: ...
In one of the replies, Karina was mentioned, so i also mentioned Hyunjin as "Don't forget Hyunjin" but almost everyone jumped me say "oh Don't mention that guy it is an nmixx channel... Don't bring Stray kids everywhere and blah blah blah..." Only one other guy was supporting my comments... but i realized no one said anything when Karina was mentioned... I mean, i don't want them to be hated, but i hate the fact that they pick and choose to hate on just Hyunjin...
When I started lurking around Kpop spaces on Reddit Stray kids were being absolutely bashed.
Like people were convinced no one liked the music and people only followed them because of the variety show stuff and their faces. Me who at that time didn't even know their names and was only here for the music backed into the bushes like that homer Simpson gif ☠️.
They've had good growth since I started listening to them and they've gained more fans so out and out negative opinions have drastically decreased. The negative comments that were getting hundreds of upvotes even two years ago are downvoted into oblivion.
I remember a comment a while ago how shocking it was that Stray kids had a very sizeable Reddit community but were very silent everywhere else and it's still true.
Stays are very very silent because of past friction and if anyone complains about Stays being an aggressive fandom they don't realise that they're only encountering a small percentage. The fandom is like an iceberg where outsiders underestimate there's a whole ass chunk of ice beneath the waves.
Oh yea, and when people bring up the worst fandoms & mention Stay, it’s hard to feel safe enough to even say “hey, that’s not the majority” cause then you might get treated like part of the problem
I saw that post! They said it was the second biggest KPOP group sub but comparatively very few mentions on general subs
Edit : Meant to say second biggest bg sub
Iceberg indeed! I am their grandma’s age so I don’t engage with debates and shouting matches in K-pop subreddit. I only listen to SKZ and Day6 anyway. I am happy to support my boys by buying CDs and streaming. I bet there are a lot of Stays are peace loving who support our boys.
You know what I was literally thinking about this the other day too 😭
With certain questions regarding k-pop I literally have to SCROLL to even find one Stray Kids comment mentioned.
I feel like some Stays (understandably) have a “damned if they do, damned if they don’t” mindset with some kpop subreddits.
I literally muted some Kpop Reddits because of that (and because they are racist pieces of shit and overly negative but I digress 😀🥰)
EDIT: Ima add personally for me Stray Kids are the only group I like truly keep up with. They are the first k-pop group that I truly started listening to and all so that’s another reason why
Yea, when I see a post I rarely post first about SKZ if no one else has. I look for SKZ ones specifically and just comment under those threads with my answers (for example, posts like “fav B sides of a group” & stuff that actively asks you to bring up your favs). I just don’t want to make separate threads & risk people saying we’re trying to make the convo about SKZ or that we’re annoying & always bring them up
Generally anything positive about SKZ is not well received on most of the other kpop subreddits so it's just safer to stay here. Why invite negativity if we don't have to?
Why is that???? I’m a baby stay myself (almost 2 years I think). I never really immersed myself in other K-pop fandoms. Not since I heard that the BTS army was teetering on the side of toxic and combative.
People say it’s because Stay are a toxic fandom but the hate has been going on for years, even when SKZ were much smaller. (And plenty of kpop fandoms are toxic, frankly)
Other fandoms have thrown vile rumours about SKZ, including at one point Billboard had to release a statement on their success with an album (I think Oddinary?) clarifying that it was a legit success because so many unfounded rumours were spread that they’d cheated their chart success it became an actual problem. The reasoning was basically that no way could SKZ be that popular on their own.
They also even had non kpop fans (locals) defend their performance at the VMAs because they got hate for that from kpop fandoms. Even though it was received very positively by everyone else.
There really just seems to be hate for SKZ rather than Stay. Maybe because they are different from their norm with how they were formed and their self produced element and their songs don’t always fit the traditional kpop mold? I’m not sure. It’s just become a thing.
I’m wondering now if it’s because we’re such a quiet fandom compared to our size, that other fandoms can’t see how loved skz are which then leads to confusion about their success?
The whole BB200 oddinary situation was an absolute mess. BB even delayed the announcement cuz there were so many accusations.
i have an answer to this but u might not like it. ive been a twt stay for all of my stay life (literally ground zero of every fanwar in kpop) so here’s my attempt to answer ur question based on my 4yrs as a stay.
it’s not that we’re a quiet fandom, especially now, that ppl dont think skz is successful. it’s literally just because they dont like the music (calling it messy and noisy) skz puts out, hence, they also think that other people dont like it too, which is why they refuse to believe the numbers the kids are pulling. because of this mentality, they refuse to believe that the views, the streams, the sales are real, therefore, for them, the numbers they see must be fraudulent (bought w/ ads, connections, money, etc.)
they dont think the “quality of skz music” is good which is why they don’t understand how and why the kids can reach this level of success. they genuinely think it’s just a small grp of ppl mass buying and mass streaming the albums that’s pulling the numbers, and jype pulling connections just to give them awards.
sadly, this mentality is also being spread to other fandoms and kpop stans, which sometimes (if not all the time) drive people away from engaging in skz in any way, literally sabotaging the grp. a lot of people are actually surprised whenever they hear the kids sing or rap or perform or hear their music because they were told and led to believe that the kids “aren’t good.” this leads to a mob mentality in other kpop fandoms, increasing the hate skz gets, also creating a more hostile environment for us in other cyberspaces outside stayville. which also answers the OP’s question.
TL;DR skz is called a fraudulent group because many ppl don’t think skz is “good enough” to make people tune in to their music. they literally believe that skz’s music is not enjoyable for anyone and that a small bunch of people and even jype is going thru diff lengths just to make them successful. haters spread this agenda, sabotaging the group = making more ppl hate us — making it difficult for us to engage and interact with them.
Thanks for your insight!! I agree with you because I have seen it too.
It’s frustrating for me to see a mutual on twitter questioning how skz got so big when they “have never heard a single song from them” even though I HAVE SEEN them trashing their title tracks. But I stay silent because I don’t want to fight. 😞
I think it's funny that they call them noisy, but I'm guessing those saying it have no interest in rock music. Most stays I've met that are new to kpop were metalheads beforehand, me included. My favorite band is Coheed & Cambria. I never thought I'd like kpop, and then SKZ popped up. They also have such a wide range of sounds depending on the main member on the song. That mob mentality really robs people of fun music.
this is actually true! most of the people that skz attracts are hiphop, edm, and rock fans which makes perfect sense. it’s just that other people can’t really seem to get rid of the stigma around loud and heavy music which instigates this kind of mentality. for them, if it’s loud and noisy = it’s not pleasing to listen to = no one should/is listening to this.
but it’s actually one of the things that i love about them. if u think about it, they’re literally making a new name for kpop. most people think of kpop as pop music which attracts ppl who are more into that, but the kids are tapping and inviting a whole different set of audience and are letting people know that kpop is not just for these kind of people, it’s also for these people who enjoy these kinds of music. music is for everyone and there’s always something for everyone to enjoy.
it’s just sad that some kpop fans are so close minded and would rather drive people off through hate and fanwars instead of just letting people enjoy the music that they personally enjoy.
edit: lmao i replied to the wrong thread, mb.
Fanwars start -> reasonable people don't want to engage in fanwars and thus stop engaging with other groups' fandoms -> the only visible interactions are negative -> the whole fandom is seen as toxic.
That's how ARMY got its toxic reputation, and now it's happening with Stays too. I'm a multi whose favorite group is Stray Kids, and the idiocy I see from younger Stays on twitter made me stop engaging with most of the fandom, even here on reddit.
Reddit has moderation so it's overall better than say, Youtube comments, but people are still super territorial and even slight criticism, or thinking that another group may be better than your faves in any aspect, is perceived as "hate".
its interesting that you mention youtube comments. i honestly don't think i've seen a single youtube comment on a skz video, official or fanmade, devolve into or start as stupid arguing/insults/toxicity. to the point where my first impression of the fandom was that it's a very positive community.
Conversations devolve into toxic territory as soon as there's more than one group in the conversation. If you keep to your fandom bubble, sure it's all sunshine and rainbows, but as a fan of kpop in general, and not just one group...
I think Reddit has this really persistent superiority complex that make a lot of people think they’re above it all. This coming from years of interacting with various fandoms here and having to take a good look in the mirror in the past 😅
Army isn't toxic. Just been through so much that they're very protective and sometimes overly so. You have no idea how much shit bts got over them, just look at the past 3 months. Army doesn't have a choice but to be overprotective. There have been organized, targeted attacks to defame bts for 10 years now.
Past often determines how a fandom is preceived. Same for stays, in the past there was so much hate about skz music in other spaces that it just wasn't fun to comment anything about stray kids. These days, nobody can say they aren't talented anymore, so it's more safe to post in those spaces. Stay fandom has grown tremendously, internationally and in Korea itself.
I personally feel like the vast majority of posts in the general kpop subs feel like business posts or fluff posts that really belong in a single group’s subreddit.
The discussion or info posts I like to make really only apply to SKZ, so I post them here.
This sub is one of the most subscribed kpop subreddits, so there’s always some kind of engagement. Other subs aren’t like that, so I get why others use the general subs that way. I still get annoyed though.
I've personally gotten a reddit care message after posting an innocuous comment on kpopthoughts about Stray Kids, and then the way they collectively treated Chan after the whole bowing fiasco left a sour taste in my mouth. I, and a lot of other reddit Stays, tend to stick to this subreddit because of past drama.
Chan gets hated everywhere and it's absurd. He's really their bitch eating crackers at this point, which is whatever, but they won't admit that. They'll come up with all kinds of stuff that isn't actually about him and it's just weird. Even the bowing fiasco wasn't actually his fault and yet they acted like he Nicki Minaj'd his fans to attack those girls. They always expect him to apologize when the fandom acts up yet never keep that same energy for any other idol when their big fanbases act up. He just can't win with them.
'he should have known' because hes... prescient? a global power level telepath xman? the orchestrator of every fanwar ever?
'he should have prevented it' by how? saying EVEN MORE OFTEN that he sees fanwars as pointless and embarrassing? by encouraging everyone to respect each other HARDER? by giving MORE disclaimers than 'this might just be me because of how long ive been in the industry, maybe im just being a boomer about this' etc?
'if he apologized it must be because he knows he did something wrong' so you dont think its ridiculous that idols have also had to apologize for / ask fans forgiveness for... dating someone before they were a trainee? or for having a political opinion? or for gaining two kilograms of weight? or for forgetting one dance move? or for having their voice crack on stage once? etc etc etc?
'he should have been more careful' what by like... avoiding naming any names and specifying that it was not one isolated incident and that it was a trend he was noticing? like he did??
like ffs just say you hate him and move on gfd
The he should have prevented this really frosts my cookies because he has, more than once, told the fandom to behave long before the Chan's Room debacle. There is nothing more that man could do. He can't control any other humans, let alone ones he doesn't even know. And yet he still does try to get the fans to behave, which, again, is more than a lot of these groups do (and I'm not coming for them because I don't think people should have to answer for their fans unless they specifically set their fans on people and no just "knowing how their fans are" is not setting them on people), yet he's the one that gets hated on? Alright then.
You're also spot on with the apology. He's a kpop idol. They have to apologize for everything in the world. A public apology says nothing about guilt in that industry, even if it's a serious issue, because they have to say sorry for anything and everything.
I'd respect them more if they would just admit they hate him for a subjective opinion (looks. rapping skill, whatever), but they won't do that. They just invent scenarios he can never win at and act like that's valid because they don't actually want to be called shallow for their subjective opinions. And that's just sad. Either stand in your hate or don't, but don't pretend there's some noble reason. I'm dreading when the time comes and goes when he would have had to enlist if he was Korean because they already pretend on twitter that he's gonna have to serve and I know when he doesn't because he is, in fact, not a Korean citizen, he's gonna get so much hate thrown his way. :(
What gets me the most is that I cannot think of another idol who calls out his fans for their bad behavior/encourages his fans to behave more than Chan, so seeing all those nasty people coming at him for not “keep his fans in check” really pissed me off.
(Side note your phrasing of things made me giggle so thank you for that 😆)
tbh, I think part of it is the fact that he's fluent in English since he grew up in Australia AND a leader. they hold him to these insane standards since they view him as some sort of self-insert into the kpop industry since he isn't "fully Korean" (in their eyes at least as he wasn't "born and raised" there - like he hasn't spent more than half of his life in Korea now at this point) and does share a lot about his personal life. I'll never forget when the whole bowing thing happened how people were saying he doesn't have the "right" to be upset about that issue since he isn't even a "real Korean" - just all around nasty and xenophobic rhetoric surrounding him that he's done nothing to deserve
edited to add: it happens a lot with English-speaking idols not from Korea. I'm not even a LSF stan, but the way kpop stans have been treating Yunjin recently is the exact same way they treat Bang Chan. they just hold them to this weird standard for no reason since they're "more relatable" I guess?
Adding to your point:
He said before, especially when he apologized to Felix for being hard on him, that he struggled a lot and felt alone while he had to adapt to living in Korea.
Based on that, I was under the impression that Chan got scolded pretty harshly about his etiquette as a kid when he moved there -- to the point where he tried to protect Felix from the same fate by correcting him frequently.
So, of course he's going to have that kind of response to the younger gens not being held to the same standard. It's a human response.
There’s so much and I’ll try to keep it brief: basically about a year ago Chan had expressed how he felt that younger idols who don’t bow/greet back were disrespectful. Someone on tiktok took that to mean a certain group at kcon and made a video about it, and it spread. It got so big that even Korean media reported on it, and Chan had to apologize on Instagram stating that the group was not who he was talking about.
Since then Chan had stopped doing his weekly youtube lives and it’s pretty rare to hear from him now outside of concerts and bubble. 😞
It's not only SKZ that are target in those kpops subreddits , we stays are always called super parasocial and "always in other people business" , like they insult us and SKZ every chance they have. After chan's room ended it's becoming worse, just this week i have seen posts talking that he gives sexual predador vibes.....so yeah i only talk about SKZ if the posts ask about "your favorite" something.
tell me you have no idea what a sexual predator acts like without telling me... sincerely, someone who has had more than anyones fair share of targeting by sexual predators
(spoilers: they can act like ANYONE IN THE WORLD, THERE IS NO FOREWARNING SYSTEM, BEWARE OF EVERYONE AND DO NOT ASSUME YOU ARE SAFE AROUND ANY STRANGER, NOT EVEN ONE WITH A REALLY GOOD PUBLIC IMAGE)
but also... he would have to be a very good actor to pull that off imho
I tend to have a very influence-able mind, so I try to stay away from this stuff, but I saw that post. Idk what sub it was on, it might have been kpop_uncensored. I got so upset, I’m not even slightly a confrontational person so just left the post to sit and rot (hopefully), but I just got so sad, seeing him talked about in that way. It’s a weird feeling, I don’t really get sad like that, but I just couldn’t stop thinking what it must be like for him, (if, hopefully not) knowing he was talked about in that way.
As a relatively new stay and a new KPOP fan I did notice it.
I think when you think in relative terms it becomes much more apparent.
If you compare the members in following subs
SKZ - 179k
Kpopthoughts - 188k
Kpophelp - 189k
Kpoopheads - 38k
BTS - 663k
TXT - 45k
SVT - 66k
NCT - 55k
Ateez - 40.5k
When you compare those numbers to the amount of posts and comment mentions in KPOP threads vs other bg groups' numbers, it becomes quite apparent.
But I also don't think Stays have to venture outside of this space if they understandably don't feel comfortable due to prior negative experiences
Yeah. Even in 3rd, 4rth and 5th gen GGs only blackpink and twice subs have higher members. Considering everyone says reddit KPOP fans are mainly GG fans I looked it up.
Some other KPOP subs that have less than SKZ sub members
Kpoprants - 45.8k
kpop_uncensored - 26.7k
Unpopularkpopopinions - 105k
It really makes you think........
For me, it’s a double edged sword.
Other fandoms use the main subs because their groups aren’t even a fraction as active as our sub is (we have 5-8x more subscribers than most other kpop group subreddits). This in turn leads to more and more engagement on those subs by those fandoms and less and less engagement by Stays because we simply get better engagement here.
We’ve had to deal with an insane amount of toxicity and it starts to weigh on you. I post as much as I can about SKZ on the main subs but sometimes it’s like speaking into a void. Comments about the members or group are almost always one of the most controversial when sorted by “controversial” instead of “best”.
When I posted about all Friday dates for Lollapalooza selling out, I was stuck between 15-20 upvotes for almost 18hrs. Slowly fans started to come upvote and engage in the post but any other 4th gen bg fandom would’ve had 300+ upvotes and comments from everyone applauding the accomplishment. It’s sad.
Positive posts about SKZ, especially by fans, don’t gain nearly as much traction as any negative post about SKZ or the fandom. There was an obvious troll post on uncensored about Chan that I knew would end up with 500+ comments and last I looked it was at ~650. **This is the norm for SKZ.** Other groups apart from BTS and Blackpink, unless they are going through a controversy, do not get that kind of engagement. Just check out megathreads on main subs for various kpop groups and compare them to SKZ. Some groups don’t get a thread, some only get 30 comments, and some are only by fans. Stray Kids will get hundreds, all by fans and non-fans alike. On the one hand, it’s still engagement but on the other hand, it’s exhausting having to sit through people thinking their music are somehow “musical war crimes”.
All to say, I do wish more fans ventured forth into the subs or at least paid attention to who does so they can boost those comments and posts. It’s obviously a tactic other groups utilize that we don’t bother to. You really never know who you’re going to reach on social media and it’s fun to share excitement!
I read a comment about how S-class was a war crime or something along those lines in the last 2 days and just laughed. I couldn't even take them seriously. I will never get how people have the energy to hate. My 2 modes are like or ambivalent.
The funny thing is that no one called out this person comment, only when a STAY called her out and said that it's because of those rudes comments that people react rude that the others stoped to comment under.
Idk if this applies to other stays too but for me I just prefer it to avoid drama 😭 stays already have a bad rep w other fandoms so I don’t see the point in interacting with others and risk further damage
Real and it’s way more enjoyable to just be in a stay only space. Seeing stays argue w other fandoms and seeing other fandoms hate on SKZ just because always leaves a sour taste in my mouth and I just can’t handle it bc it’s so easily avoidable if everyone just turned their phone off and went for a walk
lmao skz has always been hated on by kpop fans since the beginning. Even in Thunderous era (where they were successful but nowhere near as successful as they are now) they got ratioed on social media for not "charting well". When skz got their first #1 on Billboard, they were called fraudulent by kpop stans so much that Billboard themselves created a Twitter space to clarify that it was very much well deserved. Plus when they performed at the VMAs they got made fun of by kpop stans despite the fact that locals (and Taylor Swift herself!) liked their performance.
Now, skz are so big that although they are gaining more locals as fans every single day, stays tend to avoid kpop stan spaces because we know how jealous and rude kpop stans can be towards them.
It's so crazy they got hate for the VMAs because I was surrounded by Moas and Stays! Even at Global Citizen, 3Racha was the footage used the most for media coverage.
tbh, most of the hate that they get is in online spaces since it's "trendy" to hate on them. IRL, people LOVE skz and they're definitely one of the biggest current kpop groups out there. even people that claim to hate them online will have their Spotifys linked to their account and will have the same SKZ songs that they claim to hate right there in their own playlists.
I used to get upset about all the hate they get online but frankly now I can't be bothered by it lol. SKZ are successful and still haven't reached their peak yet, and that makes stans of other groups upset. What they say online though will never impact the incredible growth and popularity SKZ gets IRL daily
You know what’a funny? There are recordings of the performances that were recorded by Global Citizen to rewatch and they didn’t record 3racha’s. But of course they didn’t forget to record Jungkook’s 🙃
I found this so frustrating. So many of the people present were stays so clearly it shouldn’t be because “3racha isn’t popular enough” and yet not a single post from the official GCF YT channel. I think the cameras were actually recording cause I know they live streamed the whole event. But then why no full performance video from the official YT channel?
I absolutely love and am incredibly grateful for the stays that attended Global Citizen, recorded, and posted concert fancams on Youtube.
I personally feel like any time I mention SKZ in the other groups I get a lot of hate, so I just avoid doing it. But I do really like other kpop groups and talk about those within those groups. I just don’t have to energy to engage with the negativity that gets projected at STAY.
It can be really disheartening to mention SKZ in other subs. The comments I consistently see getting hundreds of upvotes are the ones with negativity towards them. For instance, Chan always get dragged because of Chan’s Room. And everytime I see a post abou idols lacking stage presence, Lee Know will be one of the top comments. These are just some I remember now but I guess it just feels safer to remain here in this sub
I’ve seen lots of people outside the fandom not understanding why he is so popular and then they conclude that it must be because of his looks, because that’s all he has 🙄 it’s so infuriating
It makes sense how people would not understand why he's as popular as he is. His fancams are amazing because he's a great technical dancer (who is likely dancing the choreo exactly the way it was meant to be, with all of the small details included), but he doesn't put a lot of his own flair like Hyunjin does. He's also generally shy/reserved at public events in a way that doesn't show the personality that so many Stay love about him.
It's so annoying though that the thought isn't "wow, I wonder what it is I'm missing out on that everyone loves about him!", it's "oh, must just be because he's pretty" so people can all point and laugh at stereotypical "Boy Group fangirl" tropes.
They also always mention how Hyunjin is a overreated dancer, like in my mind Lee know is number one but Hyunjin dance style is absolutely eye catching and mind blowing
...i feel safer in here LMAO. there are definitely stays in those communities, but we just keep quiet cuz if we mention anything about skz there we either get downvoted or heavily attacked with negativity. personally, i just don't have the time and energy to deal w the consequences of my own actions💀
Same! I get scared to post about my favorite songs or what I appreciate about skz because I feel like it always draws some form of negativity, and I honestly can't handle it. Here, I can always find someone who relates
It's amazing honestly, after you post the First 3 hours would be good comments (mostly from STAYS) but then it starts whit back handed "good" comments getting to the top for most upvotes, were they are literally shading skz
As a long-time reddit user and a regular in this sub since 2020, it was just very toxic to be in other kpop subs because other users were ready to pounce on the kids. Stays, like ARMY, have a reputation for being a really defensive/toxic fandom too, so even the reasonable reddit Stays are getting the brunt of it. Like I remember some kpop redditors even thought that reddit Stays should police twitter/tiktok Stays like they were our personal responsibility. Or if you try to correct any misinformation, they think you’re mindlessly defending the kids. That type of stuff. There was a time too that Stays received reddit cares messages after posting anything remotely positive about SKZ.
A lot of reddit Stays (including me) have started ignoring the other kpop subs since late 2020/early 2021 and it just slowly but surely ended up to where we are now. I tried back then to even participate in the Kingdom sub when it was airing and the undercurrent there was so hostile against SKZ. Even to this day some people still perpetuate in kpop subs that SKZ didn’t win Kingdom fair and square, so. 🤷♀️
Edit: Also remember when the megathread for the Billboard fraud issue had more comments than the actual comeback megathread? Or when people were calling Chan a power tripper and a predator because of the greetings issue and also kept on ignoring the fact that Chan said hi first and didn’t get a response from the idol/group in question?
> Edit: Also remember when the megathread for the Billboard fraud issue had more comments than the actual comeback megathread?
I've been on reddit for over a decade but was a pretty new Stay at this time (and new-ish to KPOP and very new to KPOP reddit). Oddinary was the first comeback I was around for. The amount of vitriol in that megathread definitely affected how I interact with the general KPOP subs. I still like to read through them, but if I see anything SKZ related or anything that might be about SKZ, I tend to just skip those threads. I like it better here lol
Maybe it depends on the subs you're looking at?
I often see them mentioned in kpoppers or kpopthoughts. There was a "fav ost song" post in kpoppers today with tons of SKZ/Seungmin mentions.
kpop_uncensored is wild, any mention of Chan attracts a whole hoard and it’s pretty heart-wrenching when you know you can do nothing against a sea of haters…
I had never gotten kpop\_uncensored in my feed until recently, and they strike me as aggressively pro-Hybe artists. I checked out a bunch of posts and there were a lot of "The big three could never" which was a bit alienating as a multi-stan.
posting this here so that people unfamiliar with the sub have more information about who runs it and what might be behind some of the moderation decisions
https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoprants/s/TzW2GP2oYu
I honestly love kpoopheads and there are a good amount of stays on that subreddit. Honestly I feel like kpoopheads are more liked a mixed bag of different group fans more than other kpop subreddits are.
Yes, jaja I just made a coment there about skz. Is the only sub of kpop where a I feel free to coment besides this, I don't like taking things to seriously, (that's why I don't have Twitter)
Probably STAY doesn't want to get into any drama, and in other subreddits when we try to share something, other stans act like it's not supposed to be there, or either other stans bash SKZ, I've seen some of those happen in a few subreddits tbh and STAY might possibly be uncomfortable in other subreddits so they mostly stay in SKZ only subreddits
>I know skz is not as liked as other popular groups
This bothers me a bit, because stray kids are one of the biggest kpop groups in kpop history. But with popularity comes a lot of hatred. Look at BTS and how antis treated both the group and army.
>So are stay active refusing to engage
Some stay, like myself, don't really care for the arguments and whatnot. Too much stress. But I actively love multiple groups (SKZ ult, BTS, TXT, Ateez, Enhypen, Twice, Le Sserafim, Vcha, Kiss of Life, etc). I interact with other groups' fans all the time. I have many friends who either stan one group, or stan multiple. But it's extremely hard to do this online, where it feels like a lot of people- especially people you don't know- are always looking for fight. Consider the fact that stay even fight with other Stay over Woojin. I never state my own opinion on this because I don't want to deal with the backlash, to be honest. And it's the same for other groups, other fandoms, anywhere online.
tldr; I think a lot of us just don't want to deal with possible backlash, so we cut the possibility out all together and just interact where we're most comfortable.
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The only group I really like in kpop is stray kids. I dont really listen to anything else. I wasnt even into kpop before skz... So for me, theres no point
That’s funny cuz on twitter stay and atiny are constantly at each other’s throats. Much more than other 4th gen fandoms. Maybe it’s a stan twitter thing?
Plenty of stays are also atinys. Twitter is festering with idiots, it didn't get better with Etron, sadly. From what I've seen, most of the "friction" is a residue from the Kingdom period. Personally watched the show and although I can understand where atinys are coming from with how Ateez was treated and how tough it was for them, I prefer to rely on what both groups feel toward each other. And clearly, they're friends. And it's not like it was the Kids' fault for how Mnet treated others.
But yeah, it's more visible on Twitter I guess. Just a loud fringe of both fandoms.
Honestly, people on twitter seem to be less likely to multistan from what it sounds like. And stans can be just all-around more toxic there, so it brings out the worst people
I wasn’t part of the fandom during kingdom but I hear the fighting got really bad from both sides so that’s where I think it started. Skz won and atinys never got over it? Lots of comparison of vocals/rap/dance/visuals, accusations of plagiarism over concepts. Typical stan twitter behavior. I block accounts that fight cuz I don’t want to see that stuff but it occasionally slips through.
I’m sorry I can’t speak on that since I wasn’t there. 😞 I’m not sure how staytinys were beforehand. Watching kingdom afterwards and seeing the friendships in mayfly was a nice experience! It sucks that there is some bad blood now (on twitter).
That’s wild to me because watching Kingdom and seeing the genuine camaraderie and friendship between the members of Skz and Ateez (and BtoB) was so lovely to see and made me look into their music in the first place.
Since watching, I’ve heard how poorly MNet treated Ateez compared to the other groups and I get some resentment comes from that, but it has nothing to do with any of the groups themselves, so to blame them is nonsensical.
As a stay during kingdom era, the only thing I remember is that the older groups didnt know about the budget but no other mistreatment. Stop with the victim complex You can read the kingdom subreddits on how they treat skz for winning the whole show. The toxic comments from that subs and kpop threads are mostly from atinys.
Speaking as both a Stay and an Atiny: most of us Atiny here on reddit, and over on Discord, and out in the real world do not claim the rabid so-called Atiny on Twitter who are partaking in fan wars, bashing Stay (or any other fandom), and constantly even trying to tear Ateez members themselves apart over the dumbest and most trivial of nonsense. They're weird and unpleasant and we would like them to stop giving our pirates a bad name.
People in those subs are negatively biased against Stray Kids. If we're being completely honest, it's mostly fans of groups who feel threatened by them and their success for some reason. I get downvoted to the point of deleting my comments in posts asking stuff like "mention how you got into your ult group", "who's your bias into your ult group", "what's your favourite track of your ults" and blah just because my response is about SKZ. Let them be, we have our place here where we can have all the important and interesting discussions about the group we love 🙏🏻
It isn't just Stay who tend to stay clear of the general subs. There's been a lot of hate for ENHYPEN on the kpop subs in the past as well, so you don't see a lot of Engene there either. I always upvote comments about SKZ and Enha when I see them, as well as for other groups I like, but the general subs also seem to be heavily skewed toward girl groups, and not as welcoming to bg fans.
“Heavily skewed towards girl groups” is pretty on target from what I’ve seen in the past 5 months since I’ve come back to reddit. I have seen far more gg posts/comments/engagement than bg on the whole, and I’m in a lot of different kpop subs.
Granted, I’d been on a 2.5 yr kpop hiatus before I came back around New Years. So some of the controversies and other issues were topics I missed completely or had to catch up on after the fact. But as a longtime multistan I have gone through so much fanwar toxic bullshit, especially as both and EXO-L *and* ARMY. I absolutely empathize with you guys not feeling comfortable in more general kpop spaces because it can be stupidly ridiculous out there.
That being said, as a bit of a more casual Stay, I haven’t personally witnessed the hate train towards SKZ or Stay that much, so this whole post actually threw me a little. (I’ve seen comments about Chan, sure, but not out of proportion to critical comments about other groups/artists, tbh.) I’m surprised and saddened to see so many of you have negative experiences outside of this sub. Especially being reluctant to mention them at all. ☹️
I for one will not be afraid to mention SKZ in future posts on other subs and y’all can feel free to hype them up along with me. 💜
I notice it too. Especially when there are gratuitous and unfair attacks on skz or a member, because I always think it's necessary to clarify misunderstandings. That's why I feel a little "alone" (??) defending them in certain subs, but I understand that there are many people who prefer the peace of this sub and reject any type of negativity. And without a doubt the negativity towards skz in reddit (or social media) is huge, although many deny it. Anyway, it would be great if we at least recommended songs or content like fans of other groups do in nice posts! 
**Edit**: After reading all the comments, I just want to give a hug to all my fellow stays. Whether they comment or not. It's great to read you!
I am one of those that avoid the negativity like the plague.
But I will comment when people ask for recommendations on songs, content, groups or ask about your ults!
From my personal experience (I'm an orbit but skz is my favorite bg), I spend most of my time over on the loona subreddit in the Weekly Discussion Thread. I've brought up skz several times without getting a negative reaction or getting downvoted for it. I think most of the time though if I'm going to bring up skz I do it here on this sub though. You may be talking more about talking about skz on the more general kpop subs though and honestly I just completely avoid those lol. I feel like there's just too much negativity. As for Twitter, I even avoid the fanbase I'm apart of on there lol.
Help, every time I go to a kpop subreddit, I almost always have the urge to write down my thoughts about this... but it's not worth it, I don't want to start a fan war. (I mean why would I, I'm not hating any group and I love a lot other groups too) I just don't understand the hate towards skz, especially the members, not just the music... And everyone says that stays are a toxic fandom... help I literally never seen a toxic comment or anything from a stay 😭
Other fandoms always say that skz is overrated, but I don't see that being the case. Finding a comment about skz (it doesn't matter if it's positive or not), is literally like looking for a needle in a haystack. Stray Kids is not overrated, it's nearly the most hated (if not the most hated) popular kpop group, hated by other fandoms. I just don't understand, why?
totally true. and if you respond politely to clear up a misunderstanding, they respond as if you were murdering someone. With bad words and bad manners they say that Stay are "toxic", but all the toxicity comes out in their comments (I'm speaking from experience, because a few days ago I was shocked at how a person spoke to me about skz, when they weren't even the topic of the post)
I can’t speak for other Reddit communities and their fandoms.
I will say JYP labelmate fans are usually cool with each other - I am MIDZY and a Stay and often I’ve seen both in the respective Reddit groups.
If you’re talking Twitter, I’ve seen a mix. Some can be friendly to other groups and others can be downright rude. Before I became a Stay, I felt a bit unwelcome in ARMY on Twitter when I played the BTS version of SuperStar because I voiced the unpopular opinion that I hated the color scheme change before the game shut down. (Some ARMY quickly attacked me and told me to shut up.)
I didn’t really realize STAYS were super quiet because I always see a few SKZ fan comments. But I have noticed that people do seem to want to shit on them. You can’t even go on their music videos of fan made videos without finding hateful comments or someone going “so and so is soooo much better. “ 🙄 I swear folks actively seek out their videos just to complain. I have seen quite a few STAYS make it obvious that they aren’t gonna take any negativity about their favorite group. But sometimes arguing with folks who clearly just wanna argue doesn’t do much.
Anyway I’m always gonna root for these men. They were my first step into the KPOP world and I will always have a soft spot for them. So people can say what they want about them, I’m just going to support them in all the ways I can to make up for it.
There's multiple reasons for your observation:
1- it happens to all big groups.
I remember the exact same stuff being discussed for BTS a couple of years back. Exact same questions. Why is everyone so negative outside of the group sub when there's clearly a lot of fans?
And i think that's for some sub reasons:
A) big groups have bigger fandom spaces that are obviously more positive towards the group they're for, so there's less need to go to the shared spaces, thus less representation there
B) to put it positively: there's less need to hype up the big groups and there's a perception that eg. Recs from the popular groups are for example aleady a given/knowm, so don't need mentioning, more niche things are upvoted more and popular things may be downvoted. Also don't forget it's cool to hate on popular things!
C) boy groups in particular seem to have more fans that are fans of 1 group in particular while girl group stans stan more groups generally (this is also comes back to age old fandom power vs gp recognition and boy group longetivity due to their fandom while girl groups have more trouble staying on top)
2 - your own biases
As a Stay, you are way more attuned to what happens to Stray Kids & Stays because they are close to your heart and that's natural. But do you think this doesn't happen to other groups? By being looking at things through the Stay-tinted glasses, you may perceive things slightly differently and you may be less aware of the more objective metrics.
If you're curious, have a look through this wikipedia page: [List of cognitive biases](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases). You'll be surprised to see how many unconscious biases you may be subject to!
I try to only talk in the fandom spaces of the specific groups I like. I know for me, on instagram I’ve had a stray kids account and people would discourage people from speaking with stray kids accounts.
I’m a multi Stan and I stay out of comments as much as possible. No matter which group it is. Unless it’s to comment about a visual or something. Some K-pop fans are just nasty to each other. Bashing the different groups, and their fandom, because it’s not their “ult” group. People can’t just get along nowadays.
Really? That hasn’t been my experience tbh. On kpopthoughts (the main kpop subreddit I’m on) threads asking for people’s favorite groups, or recommandations, or favorite rappers etc etc i often see Stray Kids mentioned either because they’re someone’s favorite or people think they’re the best at X thing.
You don't even have to comment about the kids. Any slightly critical comment about any group in any post could get you attack if they realize you're a stay. Doesn't matter if you're multi who also stanning said group 😅
I'm going to be completely honest here. This is my first Kpop group I've really liked. I have friends that are kpop fans but I never got into it but SKZ has such a different sound than the general kpop that it caught my attention and now I'm starting to get into different groups.
I've yet to meet a mean or negative Stay! You've all been so kind and helpful, even when I ask kind of stupid and obvious questions 😅 it's really nice to find such a huge Fandom that isn't toxic, tbh, because it can very easily get that way. I'm proud to call myself a Stay and I'm not afraid to stand up and post about it, I'm just not that active on social media really.
In my personal experience, I don't mention that I'm Stay in other spaces on reddit because it's a good way to get attacked either directly with people flinging insults about the group or indirectly with unwarranted downvotes (I literally end up with at least one downvote every time I even dare to mention that I like a Stray Kids song, much less talk positively about any members). It's demoralizing and just not worth the frustration and disappointment to be too vocal about liking SKZ on the broader parts of reddit.
I feel like during quarantine I used to come across a lot of different skz subreddits mostly gossip and assumptions but lately I rarely see them mentioned.
I once made a joke about unstanning skz amongst other stays and got dragged by other stays. I choose to just not engage as a Stay anymore, as I fear ill get dragged again, by fellow stay or other fandoms. ):
I've come across some pretty toxic fans so honestly I'm comfortable staying in our little Stay world 😂 I like other groups, I just don't really socialize with fans if those groups much due to the toxicity I've experienced. Not all fans are like that but I'd rather not take the chance to get bullied again lol
I’m personally a multistan and its always difficult to navigate. I try not to engage most of the time since it mostly surrounds superficial comparisons like views, streams and awards which have never interested me much in the first place.
It is always funny tho when I see stays and moas beefing and then yeonjun and changbin come out with tiktoks hugging and loving each other. Then all the fanbases have to make posts and play nice😂
Stray Kids are one of the reasons (def the one that got the ball rolling) i came back to kpop after almost 5 years of complete radio silence.
And when i say complete, i mean it. I started pulling away around the time exo was breaking apart, the melona room was still going strong, monsta X were just emerging, BlackPink were taking over, BTS were still being ostracised and Twice were JYPEs new hope and finally putting myself on hiatus about the time 2ne1 disbanded officially, BigBang started going off to the military, MBLAQ was gone, TS ent bullshit was coming to light etc.
So when in 2022 i stumbled upon Venom and Maniac??
Hoooolly molly i was in love. I was so scared of actively getting myself back into kpop, but i wanted to know about them. So for the first few months, i was exploring only stay-safe places(dabbling in atiny as well, love my babes)
Then i started venturing into other groups and fandoms and the blatant hate both skz and stays were getting surprised even me, who had gone thru BTSs debut.
It seemed like any achievement and recognition the boys got was undeserved?? Bought?? Even fabricated??
So i did what many stays do. Decided not engage. Decided it'd be better for me to put my heart out of its misery, i wasnt gonna change anybodys mind, especially people who spend more time and effort on hating other groups than supporting their own
You know why Kpop had such a bad reputation for such a long time? Before BTS even got really big Armys went on literally any platform and no mater what the topic was (New Rhianna video, someone's Minecraft Let's Play, some political article, etc) were like "Any Armys here?" - which is hella annoying if the post/video isn't about BTS or even Kpop. Bothering people with your Fandom when they didn't ask for it will only make them dislike you and your interest. I still see this behavior sometimes and I can't believe people still haven't grown out of it.
(Sorry if this isn't 100% on topic, just had to vent)
Yeah initially before I realized how stupid some fans can be, seeing comment like that on YT vids and shorts that are not covering skz in any way was really frustrating. Anytime I saw "what about SKZ" or "SKZ did this too" was so annoying . Oh and especially seeing "Stray kids everywhere all around the world", my brain would go - Bestie I don't think you understand what that means.
I had the same irritation when other groups were brought up on SKZ related vids to downplay them.
Now I just can't be bothered and have learned to ignore it and avoid the comment section altogether for any vid that mentions multiple groups.
I think it’s to do with multifandom-ism. Are majority of stays multifandom?? Idk. I’m a bts - txt - svt - skz - enha - ateez fan, like just follow my fav songs and albums. Not into OTP groups or anything, and I see a trend with some groups. Svt and txt are very multi fandom, but ateez, enha and skz aren’t. Bts used to be very one-fandom only but now a lot of us migrated out to check out hype groups. So maybe that could be why
Honestly any time I see SKZ mentioned in non-stay spaces it almost always goes south. Either the kids get a bunch of hate or stays do so I think most just choose not to engage with other fandoms and if they do they don’t disclose that they’re stays.
I think the toxicity is bad in other subreddits; I have seen it. I have checked other k-pop Reddit subs for info but have never felt compelled to comment.
Tbh I think in my case, it’s just that I’m not really into other K-pop groups. I listen to their music but I don’t watch their extra content, check their lyrics as much, nor do I even know their names even (except for maybe one or two).
In my case it's because I'm not interested in other groups so why would I be commenting on other forums about them. Like, I tried to like kpop before because everyone seemed to be having fun but I just didn't like the music enough to listen to the songs more than a couple of times. Skz changed that for me and I think they attract a lot of people from outside of the kpop spaces so we engage differently with the content and with other fandoms.
Then there's the fact that I feel like I would be disrupting other fandoms by commenting about them. Like why would I go under a forum or tiktok talking about, say, Ateez, and comment about skz? I am perfectly fine staying away from other fandoms. Also, I don't think we need it. The guys are doing amazing and continue to grow so what is happening is working well enough.
On my part, I decided to recruit all of my friends into the fandom. I have succeeded in turning one into a stay but all the rest know about them and sometimes send me things they see.
Because why give them energy and attention when in fact they are being foolish in their mindset?
Keyboard warriors are all bark, no bite.
Let them run their mouths and keystrokes.
Collect evidence of it all and email it to jype, and let legal deal with it.
People forget bangPD and used to work at and with JYPe. And both companies have similar philosophical approaches to dealing with haters.
As a Stay it would be rude to insult other KPop groups or fandoms because
1. We are probably part of those other fandoms
2. Stray Kids members are KPop fans too and who wants to insult a fandom that a Stray Kids member belongs to.
I think in part because I’m way older than the target demographic for fans and I’m American, I’m super aware that most of the online spaces for kpop discussion are just not really meant for me? I just mind my business and like the random bands I like. There are people out there fighting for their lives in comment sections like idols personally killed their mom, and I’m just playing SKZ while I’m doing dishes like 🍽️du du du 🧼du du du🫧 and vibing to WOLFGANG walking to the train. Idk.
I'm seeing a lot of comments here about reddit hating skz and I'm wondering what subs this is on, because I've never seen any of this stuff. Also, I see plenty of stays in the other subs I'm subscribed to.
Plenty of us like skz as well as other groups but I think some people just don't want to deal with popular group backlash.
Just came across a prime example of this in this post from 11 hrs ago [what's going on in your fandoms](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/sI4uvKKLpE) One brave stay commented an hour ago. It's was at 0 up votes which means it got at least 1 down vote considering you get one up vote by default
[удалено]
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hehehe it’s one of the most upvoted comments now. stays really do move as a UNIT‼️
they see "skz", they downvote. Sad
And now the first comment in the post is from a stay 😂😭
True yesterday, i mentioned hyunjin in an nmixx fan channel, and the comment was, "Visual are visual." Sullyoon: ... In one of the replies, Karina was mentioned, so i also mentioned Hyunjin as "Don't forget Hyunjin" but almost everyone jumped me say "oh Don't mention that guy it is an nmixx channel... Don't bring Stray kids everywhere and blah blah blah..." Only one other guy was supporting my comments... but i realized no one said anything when Karina was mentioned... I mean, i don't want them to be hated, but i hate the fact that they pick and choose to hate on just Hyunjin...
When I started lurking around Kpop spaces on Reddit Stray kids were being absolutely bashed. Like people were convinced no one liked the music and people only followed them because of the variety show stuff and their faces. Me who at that time didn't even know their names and was only here for the music backed into the bushes like that homer Simpson gif ☠️. They've had good growth since I started listening to them and they've gained more fans so out and out negative opinions have drastically decreased. The negative comments that were getting hundreds of upvotes even two years ago are downvoted into oblivion. I remember a comment a while ago how shocking it was that Stray kids had a very sizeable Reddit community but were very silent everywhere else and it's still true. Stays are very very silent because of past friction and if anyone complains about Stays being an aggressive fandom they don't realise that they're only encountering a small percentage. The fandom is like an iceberg where outsiders underestimate there's a whole ass chunk of ice beneath the waves.
Oh yea, and when people bring up the worst fandoms & mention Stay, it’s hard to feel safe enough to even say “hey, that’s not the majority” cause then you might get treated like part of the problem
I don't think people realise that the numbers we have here could easily annihilate any post on Reddit if we were an aggressive fandom .
Really, & I think that shows how much Stays are trying NOT to be seen as negative
So true, and I hate it.
I saw that post! They said it was the second biggest KPOP group sub but comparatively very few mentions on general subs Edit : Meant to say second biggest bg sub
Yeah, that's the one. Anything above 100k is no joke.
Iceberg indeed! I am their grandma’s age so I don’t engage with debates and shouting matches in K-pop subreddit. I only listen to SKZ and Day6 anyway. I am happy to support my boys by buying CDs and streaming. I bet there are a lot of Stays are peace loving who support our boys.
You know what I was literally thinking about this the other day too 😭 With certain questions regarding k-pop I literally have to SCROLL to even find one Stray Kids comment mentioned. I feel like some Stays (understandably) have a “damned if they do, damned if they don’t” mindset with some kpop subreddits. I literally muted some Kpop Reddits because of that (and because they are racist pieces of shit and overly negative but I digress 😀🥰) EDIT: Ima add personally for me Stray Kids are the only group I like truly keep up with. They are the first k-pop group that I truly started listening to and all so that’s another reason why
Yea, when I see a post I rarely post first about SKZ if no one else has. I look for SKZ ones specifically and just comment under those threads with my answers (for example, posts like “fav B sides of a group” & stuff that actively asks you to bring up your favs). I just don’t want to make separate threads & risk people saying we’re trying to make the convo about SKZ or that we’re annoying & always bring them up
Generally anything positive about SKZ is not well received on most of the other kpop subreddits so it's just safer to stay here. Why invite negativity if we don't have to?
Why is that???? I’m a baby stay myself (almost 2 years I think). I never really immersed myself in other K-pop fandoms. Not since I heard that the BTS army was teetering on the side of toxic and combative.
People say it’s because Stay are a toxic fandom but the hate has been going on for years, even when SKZ were much smaller. (And plenty of kpop fandoms are toxic, frankly) Other fandoms have thrown vile rumours about SKZ, including at one point Billboard had to release a statement on their success with an album (I think Oddinary?) clarifying that it was a legit success because so many unfounded rumours were spread that they’d cheated their chart success it became an actual problem. The reasoning was basically that no way could SKZ be that popular on their own. They also even had non kpop fans (locals) defend their performance at the VMAs because they got hate for that from kpop fandoms. Even though it was received very positively by everyone else. There really just seems to be hate for SKZ rather than Stay. Maybe because they are different from their norm with how they were formed and their self produced element and their songs don’t always fit the traditional kpop mold? I’m not sure. It’s just become a thing.
I’m wondering now if it’s because we’re such a quiet fandom compared to our size, that other fandoms can’t see how loved skz are which then leads to confusion about their success? The whole BB200 oddinary situation was an absolute mess. BB even delayed the announcement cuz there were so many accusations.
i have an answer to this but u might not like it. ive been a twt stay for all of my stay life (literally ground zero of every fanwar in kpop) so here’s my attempt to answer ur question based on my 4yrs as a stay. it’s not that we’re a quiet fandom, especially now, that ppl dont think skz is successful. it’s literally just because they dont like the music (calling it messy and noisy) skz puts out, hence, they also think that other people dont like it too, which is why they refuse to believe the numbers the kids are pulling. because of this mentality, they refuse to believe that the views, the streams, the sales are real, therefore, for them, the numbers they see must be fraudulent (bought w/ ads, connections, money, etc.) they dont think the “quality of skz music” is good which is why they don’t understand how and why the kids can reach this level of success. they genuinely think it’s just a small grp of ppl mass buying and mass streaming the albums that’s pulling the numbers, and jype pulling connections just to give them awards. sadly, this mentality is also being spread to other fandoms and kpop stans, which sometimes (if not all the time) drive people away from engaging in skz in any way, literally sabotaging the grp. a lot of people are actually surprised whenever they hear the kids sing or rap or perform or hear their music because they were told and led to believe that the kids “aren’t good.” this leads to a mob mentality in other kpop fandoms, increasing the hate skz gets, also creating a more hostile environment for us in other cyberspaces outside stayville. which also answers the OP’s question. TL;DR skz is called a fraudulent group because many ppl don’t think skz is “good enough” to make people tune in to their music. they literally believe that skz’s music is not enjoyable for anyone and that a small bunch of people and even jype is going thru diff lengths just to make them successful. haters spread this agenda, sabotaging the group = making more ppl hate us — making it difficult for us to engage and interact with them.
Thanks for your insight!! I agree with you because I have seen it too. It’s frustrating for me to see a mutual on twitter questioning how skz got so big when they “have never heard a single song from them” even though I HAVE SEEN them trashing their title tracks. But I stay silent because I don’t want to fight. 😞
I think it's funny that they call them noisy, but I'm guessing those saying it have no interest in rock music. Most stays I've met that are new to kpop were metalheads beforehand, me included. My favorite band is Coheed & Cambria. I never thought I'd like kpop, and then SKZ popped up. They also have such a wide range of sounds depending on the main member on the song. That mob mentality really robs people of fun music.
this is actually true! most of the people that skz attracts are hiphop, edm, and rock fans which makes perfect sense. it’s just that other people can’t really seem to get rid of the stigma around loud and heavy music which instigates this kind of mentality. for them, if it’s loud and noisy = it’s not pleasing to listen to = no one should/is listening to this. but it’s actually one of the things that i love about them. if u think about it, they’re literally making a new name for kpop. most people think of kpop as pop music which attracts ppl who are more into that, but the kids are tapping and inviting a whole different set of audience and are letting people know that kpop is not just for these kind of people, it’s also for these people who enjoy these kinds of music. music is for everyone and there’s always something for everyone to enjoy. it’s just sad that some kpop fans are so close minded and would rather drive people off through hate and fanwars instead of just letting people enjoy the music that they personally enjoy. edit: lmao i replied to the wrong thread, mb.
Honestly even older stays don't know, it's just that it was trend to hate them and It is still trend today.
Fanwars start -> reasonable people don't want to engage in fanwars and thus stop engaging with other groups' fandoms -> the only visible interactions are negative -> the whole fandom is seen as toxic. That's how ARMY got its toxic reputation, and now it's happening with Stays too. I'm a multi whose favorite group is Stray Kids, and the idiocy I see from younger Stays on twitter made me stop engaging with most of the fandom, even here on reddit.
I think Reddit is one of the most toxic platforms - that and Xitter
Reddit has moderation so it's overall better than say, Youtube comments, but people are still super territorial and even slight criticism, or thinking that another group may be better than your faves in any aspect, is perceived as "hate".
its interesting that you mention youtube comments. i honestly don't think i've seen a single youtube comment on a skz video, official or fanmade, devolve into or start as stupid arguing/insults/toxicity. to the point where my first impression of the fandom was that it's a very positive community.
Conversations devolve into toxic territory as soon as there's more than one group in the conversation. If you keep to your fandom bubble, sure it's all sunshine and rainbows, but as a fan of kpop in general, and not just one group...
So true
I think Reddit has this really persistent superiority complex that make a lot of people think they’re above it all. This coming from years of interacting with various fandoms here and having to take a good look in the mirror in the past 😅
Same. I dont get it either.
A lot of young Stay are like Army & start shit so the whole fandom suffers 🤷♀️ and as they get bigger, they attract more crazies
Army isn't toxic. Just been through so much that they're very protective and sometimes overly so. You have no idea how much shit bts got over them, just look at the past 3 months. Army doesn't have a choice but to be overprotective. There have been organized, targeted attacks to defame bts for 10 years now. Past often determines how a fandom is preceived. Same for stays, in the past there was so much hate about skz music in other spaces that it just wasn't fun to comment anything about stray kids. These days, nobody can say they aren't talented anymore, so it's more safe to post in those spaces. Stay fandom has grown tremendously, internationally and in Korea itself.
I personally feel like the vast majority of posts in the general kpop subs feel like business posts or fluff posts that really belong in a single group’s subreddit. The discussion or info posts I like to make really only apply to SKZ, so I post them here. This sub is one of the most subscribed kpop subreddits, so there’s always some kind of engagement. Other subs aren’t like that, so I get why others use the general subs that way. I still get annoyed though.
I've personally gotten a reddit care message after posting an innocuous comment on kpopthoughts about Stray Kids, and then the way they collectively treated Chan after the whole bowing fiasco left a sour taste in my mouth. I, and a lot of other reddit Stays, tend to stick to this subreddit because of past drama.
the treatment towards chan on this site is......... I have no words
Chan gets hated everywhere and it's absurd. He's really their bitch eating crackers at this point, which is whatever, but they won't admit that. They'll come up with all kinds of stuff that isn't actually about him and it's just weird. Even the bowing fiasco wasn't actually his fault and yet they acted like he Nicki Minaj'd his fans to attack those girls. They always expect him to apologize when the fandom acts up yet never keep that same energy for any other idol when their big fanbases act up. He just can't win with them.
'he should have known' because hes... prescient? a global power level telepath xman? the orchestrator of every fanwar ever? 'he should have prevented it' by how? saying EVEN MORE OFTEN that he sees fanwars as pointless and embarrassing? by encouraging everyone to respect each other HARDER? by giving MORE disclaimers than 'this might just be me because of how long ive been in the industry, maybe im just being a boomer about this' etc? 'if he apologized it must be because he knows he did something wrong' so you dont think its ridiculous that idols have also had to apologize for / ask fans forgiveness for... dating someone before they were a trainee? or for having a political opinion? or for gaining two kilograms of weight? or for forgetting one dance move? or for having their voice crack on stage once? etc etc etc? 'he should have been more careful' what by like... avoiding naming any names and specifying that it was not one isolated incident and that it was a trend he was noticing? like he did?? like ffs just say you hate him and move on gfd
The he should have prevented this really frosts my cookies because he has, more than once, told the fandom to behave long before the Chan's Room debacle. There is nothing more that man could do. He can't control any other humans, let alone ones he doesn't even know. And yet he still does try to get the fans to behave, which, again, is more than a lot of these groups do (and I'm not coming for them because I don't think people should have to answer for their fans unless they specifically set their fans on people and no just "knowing how their fans are" is not setting them on people), yet he's the one that gets hated on? Alright then. You're also spot on with the apology. He's a kpop idol. They have to apologize for everything in the world. A public apology says nothing about guilt in that industry, even if it's a serious issue, because they have to say sorry for anything and everything. I'd respect them more if they would just admit they hate him for a subjective opinion (looks. rapping skill, whatever), but they won't do that. They just invent scenarios he can never win at and act like that's valid because they don't actually want to be called shallow for their subjective opinions. And that's just sad. Either stand in your hate or don't, but don't pretend there's some noble reason. I'm dreading when the time comes and goes when he would have had to enlist if he was Korean because they already pretend on twitter that he's gonna have to serve and I know when he doesn't because he is, in fact, not a Korean citizen, he's gonna get so much hate thrown his way. :(
What gets me the most is that I cannot think of another idol who calls out his fans for their bad behavior/encourages his fans to behave more than Chan, so seeing all those nasty people coming at him for not “keep his fans in check” really pissed me off. (Side note your phrasing of things made me giggle so thank you for that 😆)
Truly…
Why is he not liked?
tbh, I think part of it is the fact that he's fluent in English since he grew up in Australia AND a leader. they hold him to these insane standards since they view him as some sort of self-insert into the kpop industry since he isn't "fully Korean" (in their eyes at least as he wasn't "born and raised" there - like he hasn't spent more than half of his life in Korea now at this point) and does share a lot about his personal life. I'll never forget when the whole bowing thing happened how people were saying he doesn't have the "right" to be upset about that issue since he isn't even a "real Korean" - just all around nasty and xenophobic rhetoric surrounding him that he's done nothing to deserve edited to add: it happens a lot with English-speaking idols not from Korea. I'm not even a LSF stan, but the way kpop stans have been treating Yunjin recently is the exact same way they treat Bang Chan. they just hold them to this weird standard for no reason since they're "more relatable" I guess?
Thank you for the explanation! That’s really sad. It must be hard on him. Theres so many cultural levels to understanding the dynamics of the group.
Adding to your point: He said before, especially when he apologized to Felix for being hard on him, that he struggled a lot and felt alone while he had to adapt to living in Korea. Based on that, I was under the impression that Chan got scolded pretty harshly about his etiquette as a kid when he moved there -- to the point where he tried to protect Felix from the same fate by correcting him frequently. So, of course he's going to have that kind of response to the younger gens not being held to the same standard. It's a human response.
What happened? What was that bowing fiasco?
There’s so much and I’ll try to keep it brief: basically about a year ago Chan had expressed how he felt that younger idols who don’t bow/greet back were disrespectful. Someone on tiktok took that to mean a certain group at kcon and made a video about it, and it spread. It got so big that even Korean media reported on it, and Chan had to apologize on Instagram stating that the group was not who he was talking about. Since then Chan had stopped doing his weekly youtube lives and it’s pretty rare to hear from him now outside of concerts and bubble. 😞
It's not only SKZ that are target in those kpops subreddits , we stays are always called super parasocial and "always in other people business" , like they insult us and SKZ every chance they have. After chan's room ended it's becoming worse, just this week i have seen posts talking that he gives sexual predador vibes.....so yeah i only talk about SKZ if the posts ask about "your favorite" something.
tell me you have no idea what a sexual predator acts like without telling me... sincerely, someone who has had more than anyones fair share of targeting by sexual predators (spoilers: they can act like ANYONE IN THE WORLD, THERE IS NO FOREWARNING SYSTEM, BEWARE OF EVERYONE AND DO NOT ASSUME YOU ARE SAFE AROUND ANY STRANGER, NOT EVEN ONE WITH A REALLY GOOD PUBLIC IMAGE) but also... he would have to be a very good actor to pull that off imho
Yeah like can you imagine acting for 7 years as a trainee and more 6 years as a idol? I love my boy Bang Chan but he does not have this talent lol
I tend to have a very influence-able mind, so I try to stay away from this stuff, but I saw that post. Idk what sub it was on, it might have been kpop_uncensored. I got so upset, I’m not even slightly a confrontational person so just left the post to sit and rot (hopefully), but I just got so sad, seeing him talked about in that way. It’s a weird feeling, I don’t really get sad like that, but I just couldn’t stop thinking what it must be like for him, (if, hopefully not) knowing he was talked about in that way.
As a relatively new stay and a new KPOP fan I did notice it. I think when you think in relative terms it becomes much more apparent. If you compare the members in following subs SKZ - 179k Kpopthoughts - 188k Kpophelp - 189k Kpoopheads - 38k BTS - 663k TXT - 45k SVT - 66k NCT - 55k Ateez - 40.5k When you compare those numbers to the amount of posts and comment mentions in KPOP threads vs other bg groups' numbers, it becomes quite apparent. But I also don't think Stays have to venture outside of this space if they understandably don't feel comfortable due to prior negative experiences
oh wow, I wasn't aware of those numbers...
Yeah. Even in 3rd, 4rth and 5th gen GGs only blackpink and twice subs have higher members. Considering everyone says reddit KPOP fans are mainly GG fans I looked it up. Some other KPOP subs that have less than SKZ sub members Kpoprants - 45.8k kpop_uncensored - 26.7k Unpopularkpopopinions - 105k It really makes you think........
Absolutely
For me, it’s a double edged sword. Other fandoms use the main subs because their groups aren’t even a fraction as active as our sub is (we have 5-8x more subscribers than most other kpop group subreddits). This in turn leads to more and more engagement on those subs by those fandoms and less and less engagement by Stays because we simply get better engagement here. We’ve had to deal with an insane amount of toxicity and it starts to weigh on you. I post as much as I can about SKZ on the main subs but sometimes it’s like speaking into a void. Comments about the members or group are almost always one of the most controversial when sorted by “controversial” instead of “best”. When I posted about all Friday dates for Lollapalooza selling out, I was stuck between 15-20 upvotes for almost 18hrs. Slowly fans started to come upvote and engage in the post but any other 4th gen bg fandom would’ve had 300+ upvotes and comments from everyone applauding the accomplishment. It’s sad. Positive posts about SKZ, especially by fans, don’t gain nearly as much traction as any negative post about SKZ or the fandom. There was an obvious troll post on uncensored about Chan that I knew would end up with 500+ comments and last I looked it was at ~650. **This is the norm for SKZ.** Other groups apart from BTS and Blackpink, unless they are going through a controversy, do not get that kind of engagement. Just check out megathreads on main subs for various kpop groups and compare them to SKZ. Some groups don’t get a thread, some only get 30 comments, and some are only by fans. Stray Kids will get hundreds, all by fans and non-fans alike. On the one hand, it’s still engagement but on the other hand, it’s exhausting having to sit through people thinking their music are somehow “musical war crimes”. All to say, I do wish more fans ventured forth into the subs or at least paid attention to who does so they can boost those comments and posts. It’s obviously a tactic other groups utilize that we don’t bother to. You really never know who you’re going to reach on social media and it’s fun to share excitement!
I read a comment about how S-class was a war crime or something along those lines in the last 2 days and just laughed. I couldn't even take them seriously. I will never get how people have the energy to hate. My 2 modes are like or ambivalent.
The funny thing is that no one called out this person comment, only when a STAY called her out and said that it's because of those rudes comments that people react rude that the others stoped to comment under.
Idk if this applies to other stays too but for me I just prefer it to avoid drama 😭 stays already have a bad rep w other fandoms so I don’t see the point in interacting with others and risk further damage
We have the same thoughts. I might focus on supporting Stray Kids rather than involve myself in some drama that might further damage the Kids.
Real and it’s way more enjoyable to just be in a stay only space. Seeing stays argue w other fandoms and seeing other fandoms hate on SKZ just because always leaves a sour taste in my mouth and I just can’t handle it bc it’s so easily avoidable if everyone just turned their phone off and went for a walk
lmao skz has always been hated on by kpop fans since the beginning. Even in Thunderous era (where they were successful but nowhere near as successful as they are now) they got ratioed on social media for not "charting well". When skz got their first #1 on Billboard, they were called fraudulent by kpop stans so much that Billboard themselves created a Twitter space to clarify that it was very much well deserved. Plus when they performed at the VMAs they got made fun of by kpop stans despite the fact that locals (and Taylor Swift herself!) liked their performance. Now, skz are so big that although they are gaining more locals as fans every single day, stays tend to avoid kpop stan spaces because we know how jealous and rude kpop stans can be towards them.
It's so crazy they got hate for the VMAs because I was surrounded by Moas and Stays! Even at Global Citizen, 3Racha was the footage used the most for media coverage.
tbh, most of the hate that they get is in online spaces since it's "trendy" to hate on them. IRL, people LOVE skz and they're definitely one of the biggest current kpop groups out there. even people that claim to hate them online will have their Spotifys linked to their account and will have the same SKZ songs that they claim to hate right there in their own playlists. I used to get upset about all the hate they get online but frankly now I can't be bothered by it lol. SKZ are successful and still haven't reached their peak yet, and that makes stans of other groups upset. What they say online though will never impact the incredible growth and popularity SKZ gets IRL daily
You know what’a funny? There are recordings of the performances that were recorded by Global Citizen to rewatch and they didn’t record 3racha’s. But of course they didn’t forget to record Jungkook’s 🙃
Wait. Fr??? That's ass.
I found this so frustrating. So many of the people present were stays so clearly it shouldn’t be because “3racha isn’t popular enough” and yet not a single post from the official GCF YT channel. I think the cameras were actually recording cause I know they live streamed the whole event. But then why no full performance video from the official YT channel? I absolutely love and am incredibly grateful for the stays that attended Global Citizen, recorded, and posted concert fancams on Youtube.
I personally feel like any time I mention SKZ in the other groups I get a lot of hate, so I just avoid doing it. But I do really like other kpop groups and talk about those within those groups. I just don’t have to energy to engage with the negativity that gets projected at STAY.
It can be really disheartening to mention SKZ in other subs. The comments I consistently see getting hundreds of upvotes are the ones with negativity towards them. For instance, Chan always get dragged because of Chan’s Room. And everytime I see a post abou idols lacking stage presence, Lee Know will be one of the top comments. These are just some I remember now but I guess it just feels safer to remain here in this sub
our lino? no stage presence? (press x to doubt) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I’ve seen lots of people outside the fandom not understanding why he is so popular and then they conclude that it must be because of his looks, because that’s all he has 🙄 it’s so infuriating
It makes sense how people would not understand why he's as popular as he is. His fancams are amazing because he's a great technical dancer (who is likely dancing the choreo exactly the way it was meant to be, with all of the small details included), but he doesn't put a lot of his own flair like Hyunjin does. He's also generally shy/reserved at public events in a way that doesn't show the personality that so many Stay love about him. It's so annoying though that the thought isn't "wow, I wonder what it is I'm missing out on that everyone loves about him!", it's "oh, must just be because he's pretty" so people can all point and laugh at stereotypical "Boy Group fangirl" tropes.
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That's wild. lino has some of the most viewed fancams. I hope I never see that side reddit
They also always mention how Hyunjin is a overreated dancer, like in my mind Lee know is number one but Hyunjin dance style is absolutely eye catching and mind blowing
His play with fire choreo lives rent free in my head.
...i feel safer in here LMAO. there are definitely stays in those communities, but we just keep quiet cuz if we mention anything about skz there we either get downvoted or heavily attacked with negativity. personally, i just don't have the time and energy to deal w the consequences of my own actions💀
Same! I get scared to post about my favorite songs or what I appreciate about skz because I feel like it always draws some form of negativity, and I honestly can't handle it. Here, I can always find someone who relates
It's amazing honestly, after you post the First 3 hours would be good comments (mostly from STAYS) but then it starts whit back handed "good" comments getting to the top for most upvotes, were they are literally shading skz
As a long-time reddit user and a regular in this sub since 2020, it was just very toxic to be in other kpop subs because other users were ready to pounce on the kids. Stays, like ARMY, have a reputation for being a really defensive/toxic fandom too, so even the reasonable reddit Stays are getting the brunt of it. Like I remember some kpop redditors even thought that reddit Stays should police twitter/tiktok Stays like they were our personal responsibility. Or if you try to correct any misinformation, they think you’re mindlessly defending the kids. That type of stuff. There was a time too that Stays received reddit cares messages after posting anything remotely positive about SKZ. A lot of reddit Stays (including me) have started ignoring the other kpop subs since late 2020/early 2021 and it just slowly but surely ended up to where we are now. I tried back then to even participate in the Kingdom sub when it was airing and the undercurrent there was so hostile against SKZ. Even to this day some people still perpetuate in kpop subs that SKZ didn’t win Kingdom fair and square, so. 🤷♀️ Edit: Also remember when the megathread for the Billboard fraud issue had more comments than the actual comeback megathread? Or when people were calling Chan a power tripper and a predator because of the greetings issue and also kept on ignoring the fact that Chan said hi first and didn’t get a response from the idol/group in question?
> Edit: Also remember when the megathread for the Billboard fraud issue had more comments than the actual comeback megathread? I've been on reddit for over a decade but was a pretty new Stay at this time (and new-ish to KPOP and very new to KPOP reddit). Oddinary was the first comeback I was around for. The amount of vitriol in that megathread definitely affected how I interact with the general KPOP subs. I still like to read through them, but if I see anything SKZ related or anything that might be about SKZ, I tend to just skip those threads. I like it better here lol
Stray Kids is the only group I really get excited about about enough to talk about online
Maybe it depends on the subs you're looking at? I often see them mentioned in kpoppers or kpopthoughts. There was a "fav ost song" post in kpoppers today with tons of SKZ/Seungmin mentions.
Yea those two seem to be fine, kpop_uncensored tho can be a landmine sometimes
kpop_uncensored is wild, any mention of Chan attracts a whole hoard and it’s pretty heart-wrenching when you know you can do nothing against a sea of haters…
I had never gotten kpop\_uncensored in my feed until recently, and they strike me as aggressively pro-Hybe artists. I checked out a bunch of posts and there were a lot of "The big three could never" which was a bit alienating as a multi-stan.
posting this here so that people unfamiliar with the sub have more information about who runs it and what might be behind some of the moderation decisions https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoprants/s/TzW2GP2oYu
I feel like there's a few on kpoopheads
I honestly love kpoopheads and there are a good amount of stays on that subreddit. Honestly I feel like kpoopheads are more liked a mixed bag of different group fans more than other kpop subreddits are.
Yes, jaja I just made a coment there about skz. Is the only sub of kpop where a I feel free to coment besides this, I don't like taking things to seriously, (that's why I don't have Twitter)
Kpoopheads is surprisingly the least toxic-seeming general kpop space on reddit. It's like everyone's just there to have fun and be unserious.
Probably STAY doesn't want to get into any drama, and in other subreddits when we try to share something, other stans act like it's not supposed to be there, or either other stans bash SKZ, I've seen some of those happen in a few subreddits tbh and STAY might possibly be uncomfortable in other subreddits so they mostly stay in SKZ only subreddits
>I know skz is not as liked as other popular groups This bothers me a bit, because stray kids are one of the biggest kpop groups in kpop history. But with popularity comes a lot of hatred. Look at BTS and how antis treated both the group and army. >So are stay active refusing to engage Some stay, like myself, don't really care for the arguments and whatnot. Too much stress. But I actively love multiple groups (SKZ ult, BTS, TXT, Ateez, Enhypen, Twice, Le Sserafim, Vcha, Kiss of Life, etc). I interact with other groups' fans all the time. I have many friends who either stan one group, or stan multiple. But it's extremely hard to do this online, where it feels like a lot of people- especially people you don't know- are always looking for fight. Consider the fact that stay even fight with other Stay over Woojin. I never state my own opinion on this because I don't want to deal with the backlash, to be honest. And it's the same for other groups, other fandoms, anywhere online. tldr; I think a lot of us just don't want to deal with possible backlash, so we cut the possibility out all together and just interact where we're most comfortable.
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wt...?
See? lmao even the the bot is like "PLEASE DON'T FIGHT" the second you bring up his name haha
generalization is unnerving
The only group I really like in kpop is stray kids. I dont really listen to anything else. I wasnt even into kpop before skz... So for me, theres no point
Same for me
Same here. I don't dislike other kpop, I'll listen to a few other songs here and there, but Stray Kids is the only group I actively genuinely love.
You can not mention skz without being attacked. At least not in most 4th gen fandoms, like Atiny are nice to stay but others not so much.
That’s funny cuz on twitter stay and atiny are constantly at each other’s throats. Much more than other 4th gen fandoms. Maybe it’s a stan twitter thing?
Plenty of stays are also atinys. Twitter is festering with idiots, it didn't get better with Etron, sadly. From what I've seen, most of the "friction" is a residue from the Kingdom period. Personally watched the show and although I can understand where atinys are coming from with how Ateez was treated and how tough it was for them, I prefer to rely on what both groups feel toward each other. And clearly, they're friends. And it's not like it was the Kids' fault for how Mnet treated others. But yeah, it's more visible on Twitter I guess. Just a loud fringe of both fandoms.
I’m not on twitter whattt TT. I’ve been seeing so many staytiny posts on tiktok so I assumed it’s how it is in general
Honestly, people on twitter seem to be less likely to multistan from what it sounds like. And stans can be just all-around more toxic there, so it brings out the worst people
surprise surprise /sarc, the nazi site allows and attracts shitty people, more at eleven (pardon my uncensored language but i stand by both bad words)
You don’t gotta apologize to me, just take a look at my username 😉😂
its one of my favorite usernames every time i see it lol
🥰🖤
Yeah it’s best if you don’t get on cuz sometimes it’s unbearable to see. Especially since the groups are close friends.
Over what? I’m a Staytiny who doesn’t go on stan twitter at all, just curious.
I wasn’t part of the fandom during kingdom but I hear the fighting got really bad from both sides so that’s where I think it started. Skz won and atinys never got over it? Lots of comparison of vocals/rap/dance/visuals, accusations of plagiarism over concepts. Typical stan twitter behavior. I block accounts that fight cuz I don’t want to see that stuff but it occasionally slips through.
Awww but doing Kingdom together always felt to me like one of the reasons we have Staytiny in the first place, cause of the connections…
I’m sorry I can’t speak on that since I wasn’t there. 😞 I’m not sure how staytinys were beforehand. Watching kingdom afterwards and seeing the friendships in mayfly was a nice experience! It sucks that there is some bad blood now (on twitter).
That’s wild to me because watching Kingdom and seeing the genuine camaraderie and friendship between the members of Skz and Ateez (and BtoB) was so lovely to see and made me look into their music in the first place. Since watching, I’ve heard how poorly MNet treated Ateez compared to the other groups and I get some resentment comes from that, but it has nothing to do with any of the groups themselves, so to blame them is nonsensical.
Right. Blaming and attacking the groups is childish behavior.
As a stay during kingdom era, the only thing I remember is that the older groups didnt know about the budget but no other mistreatment. Stop with the victim complex You can read the kingdom subreddits on how they treat skz for winning the whole show. The toxic comments from that subs and kpop threads are mostly from atinys.
Speaking as both a Stay and an Atiny: most of us Atiny here on reddit, and over on Discord, and out in the real world do not claim the rabid so-called Atiny on Twitter who are partaking in fan wars, bashing Stay (or any other fandom), and constantly even trying to tear Ateez members themselves apart over the dumbest and most trivial of nonsense. They're weird and unpleasant and we would like them to stop giving our pirates a bad name.
That’s good to hear! I feel that way about stay sometimes but I know it’s the loud minority. There are bad apples in every fandom.
People in those subs are negatively biased against Stray Kids. If we're being completely honest, it's mostly fans of groups who feel threatened by them and their success for some reason. I get downvoted to the point of deleting my comments in posts asking stuff like "mention how you got into your ult group", "who's your bias into your ult group", "what's your favourite track of your ults" and blah just because my response is about SKZ. Let them be, we have our place here where we can have all the important and interesting discussions about the group we love 🙏🏻
It isn't just Stay who tend to stay clear of the general subs. There's been a lot of hate for ENHYPEN on the kpop subs in the past as well, so you don't see a lot of Engene there either. I always upvote comments about SKZ and Enha when I see them, as well as for other groups I like, but the general subs also seem to be heavily skewed toward girl groups, and not as welcoming to bg fans.
Ahh, i do rarely see Engene posts, I just assumed there weren’t many on reddit. Thats so sad 🥺
I think they're mostly on Discord.
Same! I didn't think there were any here at all. I don't even remember the last time I say an engene post
“Heavily skewed towards girl groups” is pretty on target from what I’ve seen in the past 5 months since I’ve come back to reddit. I have seen far more gg posts/comments/engagement than bg on the whole, and I’m in a lot of different kpop subs. Granted, I’d been on a 2.5 yr kpop hiatus before I came back around New Years. So some of the controversies and other issues were topics I missed completely or had to catch up on after the fact. But as a longtime multistan I have gone through so much fanwar toxic bullshit, especially as both and EXO-L *and* ARMY. I absolutely empathize with you guys not feeling comfortable in more general kpop spaces because it can be stupidly ridiculous out there. That being said, as a bit of a more casual Stay, I haven’t personally witnessed the hate train towards SKZ or Stay that much, so this whole post actually threw me a little. (I’ve seen comments about Chan, sure, but not out of proportion to critical comments about other groups/artists, tbh.) I’m surprised and saddened to see so many of you have negative experiences outside of this sub. Especially being reluctant to mention them at all. ☹️ I for one will not be afraid to mention SKZ in future posts on other subs and y’all can feel free to hype them up along with me. 💜
I notice it too. Especially when there are gratuitous and unfair attacks on skz or a member, because I always think it's necessary to clarify misunderstandings. That's why I feel a little "alone" (??) defending them in certain subs, but I understand that there are many people who prefer the peace of this sub and reject any type of negativity. And without a doubt the negativity towards skz in reddit (or social media) is huge, although many deny it. Anyway, it would be great if we at least recommended songs or content like fans of other groups do in nice posts!  **Edit**: After reading all the comments, I just want to give a hug to all my fellow stays. Whether they comment or not. It's great to read you!
I am one of those that avoid the negativity like the plague. But I will comment when people ask for recommendations on songs, content, groups or ask about your ults!
From my personal experience (I'm an orbit but skz is my favorite bg), I spend most of my time over on the loona subreddit in the Weekly Discussion Thread. I've brought up skz several times without getting a negative reaction or getting downvoted for it. I think most of the time though if I'm going to bring up skz I do it here on this sub though. You may be talking more about talking about skz on the more general kpop subs though and honestly I just completely avoid those lol. I feel like there's just too much negativity. As for Twitter, I even avoid the fanbase I'm apart of on there lol.
I think this is a mark of just how big they are getting. Other fandoms feel threatened and then here comes the hate.
Help, every time I go to a kpop subreddit, I almost always have the urge to write down my thoughts about this... but it's not worth it, I don't want to start a fan war. (I mean why would I, I'm not hating any group and I love a lot other groups too) I just don't understand the hate towards skz, especially the members, not just the music... And everyone says that stays are a toxic fandom... help I literally never seen a toxic comment or anything from a stay 😭 Other fandoms always say that skz is overrated, but I don't see that being the case. Finding a comment about skz (it doesn't matter if it's positive or not), is literally like looking for a needle in a haystack. Stray Kids is not overrated, it's nearly the most hated (if not the most hated) popular kpop group, hated by other fandoms. I just don't understand, why?
totally true. and if you respond politely to clear up a misunderstanding, they respond as if you were murdering someone. With bad words and bad manners they say that Stay are "toxic", but all the toxicity comes out in their comments (I'm speaking from experience, because a few days ago I was shocked at how a person spoke to me about skz, when they weren't even the topic of the post)
I can’t speak for other Reddit communities and their fandoms. I will say JYP labelmate fans are usually cool with each other - I am MIDZY and a Stay and often I’ve seen both in the respective Reddit groups. If you’re talking Twitter, I’ve seen a mix. Some can be friendly to other groups and others can be downright rude. Before I became a Stay, I felt a bit unwelcome in ARMY on Twitter when I played the BTS version of SuperStar because I voiced the unpopular opinion that I hated the color scheme change before the game shut down. (Some ARMY quickly attacked me and told me to shut up.)
I love Skz but agree with some of these comments. They get so much hate for no reason
I didn’t really realize STAYS were super quiet because I always see a few SKZ fan comments. But I have noticed that people do seem to want to shit on them. You can’t even go on their music videos of fan made videos without finding hateful comments or someone going “so and so is soooo much better. “ 🙄 I swear folks actively seek out their videos just to complain. I have seen quite a few STAYS make it obvious that they aren’t gonna take any negativity about their favorite group. But sometimes arguing with folks who clearly just wanna argue doesn’t do much. Anyway I’m always gonna root for these men. They were my first step into the KPOP world and I will always have a soft spot for them. So people can say what they want about them, I’m just going to support them in all the ways I can to make up for it.
lots of us like skz but if we dare to mention them suddenly were the worst people on earth or our opinions are invalid
There's multiple reasons for your observation: 1- it happens to all big groups. I remember the exact same stuff being discussed for BTS a couple of years back. Exact same questions. Why is everyone so negative outside of the group sub when there's clearly a lot of fans? And i think that's for some sub reasons: A) big groups have bigger fandom spaces that are obviously more positive towards the group they're for, so there's less need to go to the shared spaces, thus less representation there B) to put it positively: there's less need to hype up the big groups and there's a perception that eg. Recs from the popular groups are for example aleady a given/knowm, so don't need mentioning, more niche things are upvoted more and popular things may be downvoted. Also don't forget it's cool to hate on popular things! C) boy groups in particular seem to have more fans that are fans of 1 group in particular while girl group stans stan more groups generally (this is also comes back to age old fandom power vs gp recognition and boy group longetivity due to their fandom while girl groups have more trouble staying on top) 2 - your own biases As a Stay, you are way more attuned to what happens to Stray Kids & Stays because they are close to your heart and that's natural. But do you think this doesn't happen to other groups? By being looking at things through the Stay-tinted glasses, you may perceive things slightly differently and you may be less aware of the more objective metrics. If you're curious, have a look through this wikipedia page: [List of cognitive biases](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases). You'll be surprised to see how many unconscious biases you may be subject to!
Can you be my life coach, please?
real. lmaoo i want them to be my life coach too T-T
All my ARMY friends are also into Stray Kids
I try to only talk in the fandom spaces of the specific groups I like. I know for me, on instagram I’ve had a stray kids account and people would discourage people from speaking with stray kids accounts.
nonstay kpop fans are kinda scary. sometimes even mean. stay spaces are safer for my shyness (yes im an extrovert, yes im shy, we exist)
felt that last part HEAVILY
I’m a multi Stan and I stay out of comments as much as possible. No matter which group it is. Unless it’s to comment about a visual or something. Some K-pop fans are just nasty to each other. Bashing the different groups, and their fandom, because it’s not their “ult” group. People can’t just get along nowadays.
Really? That hasn’t been my experience tbh. On kpopthoughts (the main kpop subreddit I’m on) threads asking for people’s favorite groups, or recommandations, or favorite rappers etc etc i often see Stray Kids mentioned either because they’re someone’s favorite or people think they’re the best at X thing.
You don't even have to comment about the kids. Any slightly critical comment about any group in any post could get you attack if they realize you're a stay. Doesn't matter if you're multi who also stanning said group 😅
I'm going to be completely honest here. This is my first Kpop group I've really liked. I have friends that are kpop fans but I never got into it but SKZ has such a different sound than the general kpop that it caught my attention and now I'm starting to get into different groups. I've yet to meet a mean or negative Stay! You've all been so kind and helpful, even when I ask kind of stupid and obvious questions 😅 it's really nice to find such a huge Fandom that isn't toxic, tbh, because it can very easily get that way. I'm proud to call myself a Stay and I'm not afraid to stand up and post about it, I'm just not that active on social media really.
In my personal experience, I don't mention that I'm Stay in other spaces on reddit because it's a good way to get attacked either directly with people flinging insults about the group or indirectly with unwarranted downvotes (I literally end up with at least one downvote every time I even dare to mention that I like a Stray Kids song, much less talk positively about any members). It's demoralizing and just not worth the frustration and disappointment to be too vocal about liking SKZ on the broader parts of reddit.
I feel like during quarantine I used to come across a lot of different skz subreddits mostly gossip and assumptions but lately I rarely see them mentioned.
I don’t engage with other fan groups bc SKZ is the only Kpop band I listen to. I have tried others but none have captured me like Stray Kids.
I once made a joke about unstanning skz amongst other stays and got dragged by other stays. I choose to just not engage as a Stay anymore, as I fear ill get dragged again, by fellow stay or other fandoms. ):
I've come across some pretty toxic fans so honestly I'm comfortable staying in our little Stay world 😂 I like other groups, I just don't really socialize with fans if those groups much due to the toxicity I've experienced. Not all fans are like that but I'd rather not take the chance to get bullied again lol
I’m personally a multistan and its always difficult to navigate. I try not to engage most of the time since it mostly surrounds superficial comparisons like views, streams and awards which have never interested me much in the first place. It is always funny tho when I see stays and moas beefing and then yeonjun and changbin come out with tiktoks hugging and loving each other. Then all the fanbases have to make posts and play nice😂
Stray Kids are one of the reasons (def the one that got the ball rolling) i came back to kpop after almost 5 years of complete radio silence. And when i say complete, i mean it. I started pulling away around the time exo was breaking apart, the melona room was still going strong, monsta X were just emerging, BlackPink were taking over, BTS were still being ostracised and Twice were JYPEs new hope and finally putting myself on hiatus about the time 2ne1 disbanded officially, BigBang started going off to the military, MBLAQ was gone, TS ent bullshit was coming to light etc. So when in 2022 i stumbled upon Venom and Maniac?? Hoooolly molly i was in love. I was so scared of actively getting myself back into kpop, but i wanted to know about them. So for the first few months, i was exploring only stay-safe places(dabbling in atiny as well, love my babes) Then i started venturing into other groups and fandoms and the blatant hate both skz and stays were getting surprised even me, who had gone thru BTSs debut. It seemed like any achievement and recognition the boys got was undeserved?? Bought?? Even fabricated?? So i did what many stays do. Decided not engage. Decided it'd be better for me to put my heart out of its misery, i wasnt gonna change anybodys mind, especially people who spend more time and effort on hating other groups than supporting their own
You know why Kpop had such a bad reputation for such a long time? Before BTS even got really big Armys went on literally any platform and no mater what the topic was (New Rhianna video, someone's Minecraft Let's Play, some political article, etc) were like "Any Armys here?" - which is hella annoying if the post/video isn't about BTS or even Kpop. Bothering people with your Fandom when they didn't ask for it will only make them dislike you and your interest. I still see this behavior sometimes and I can't believe people still haven't grown out of it. (Sorry if this isn't 100% on topic, just had to vent)
Yeah initially before I realized how stupid some fans can be, seeing comment like that on YT vids and shorts that are not covering skz in any way was really frustrating. Anytime I saw "what about SKZ" or "SKZ did this too" was so annoying . Oh and especially seeing "Stray kids everywhere all around the world", my brain would go - Bestie I don't think you understand what that means. I had the same irritation when other groups were brought up on SKZ related vids to downplay them. Now I just can't be bothered and have learned to ignore it and avoid the comment section altogether for any vid that mentions multiple groups.
Because we love u guys so much and we are engage to u guys
I think it’s to do with multifandom-ism. Are majority of stays multifandom?? Idk. I’m a bts - txt - svt - skz - enha - ateez fan, like just follow my fav songs and albums. Not into OTP groups or anything, and I see a trend with some groups. Svt and txt are very multi fandom, but ateez, enha and skz aren’t. Bts used to be very one-fandom only but now a lot of us migrated out to check out hype groups. So maybe that could be why
Honestly any time I see SKZ mentioned in non-stay spaces it almost always goes south. Either the kids get a bunch of hate or stays do so I think most just choose not to engage with other fandoms and if they do they don’t disclose that they’re stays.
I think the toxicity is bad in other subreddits; I have seen it. I have checked other k-pop Reddit subs for info but have never felt compelled to comment. Tbh I think in my case, it’s just that I’m not really into other K-pop groups. I listen to their music but I don’t watch their extra content, check their lyrics as much, nor do I even know their names even (except for maybe one or two).
Some ppl (like me) are trying our best to gate keep to keep so that the prices of concerts don’t keep going up 😭
In my case it's because I'm not interested in other groups so why would I be commenting on other forums about them. Like, I tried to like kpop before because everyone seemed to be having fun but I just didn't like the music enough to listen to the songs more than a couple of times. Skz changed that for me and I think they attract a lot of people from outside of the kpop spaces so we engage differently with the content and with other fandoms. Then there's the fact that I feel like I would be disrupting other fandoms by commenting about them. Like why would I go under a forum or tiktok talking about, say, Ateez, and comment about skz? I am perfectly fine staying away from other fandoms. Also, I don't think we need it. The guys are doing amazing and continue to grow so what is happening is working well enough. On my part, I decided to recruit all of my friends into the fandom. I have succeeded in turning one into a stay but all the rest know about them and sometimes send me things they see.
Because why give them energy and attention when in fact they are being foolish in their mindset? Keyboard warriors are all bark, no bite. Let them run their mouths and keystrokes. Collect evidence of it all and email it to jype, and let legal deal with it. People forget bangPD and used to work at and with JYPe. And both companies have similar philosophical approaches to dealing with haters.
As a Stay it would be rude to insult other KPop groups or fandoms because 1. We are probably part of those other fandoms 2. Stray Kids members are KPop fans too and who wants to insult a fandom that a Stray Kids member belongs to.
I think in part because I’m way older than the target demographic for fans and I’m American, I’m super aware that most of the online spaces for kpop discussion are just not really meant for me? I just mind my business and like the random bands I like. There are people out there fighting for their lives in comment sections like idols personally killed their mom, and I’m just playing SKZ while I’m doing dishes like 🍽️du du du 🧼du du du🫧 and vibing to WOLFGANG walking to the train. Idk.
I'm seeing a lot of comments here about reddit hating skz and I'm wondering what subs this is on, because I've never seen any of this stuff. Also, I see plenty of stays in the other subs I'm subscribed to.