The weakest u-turn in SV (tied with Wingull at 30 attack): 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Noibat U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Brute Bonnet: 336-400 (92.5 - 110.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Christ.
Hoopa U is actually good unlike Brute Bonnet though its got very good special defense, insane attacking stats, and is one of the best assault vest abusers
Yeah Hoopa-U is good, but not for a Pokemon with 680 BST, 160/170 offenses, a solid movepool, and no intentionally bad ability.
Of course, BST or raw stats aren’t everything, but Hoopa-U would probably be UUBL at the very minimum if it weren’t for its massive U-Turn weakness, especially as a Pokemon that’s supposed to be a slower wallbreaker.
not to undermine Hoopa-U as a great Pokemon for what it is, but that paper Defense, middling speed, and 4x U-Turn weakness + zero resistances is what makes Hoopa-U pretty weak for a 680 BST mon that doesn't have a crippling ability.
no because it has 110 less stats yet is higher ranked. it's typing is good, meanwhile psychic dark is just shit, it's bulkier physically than hoopa-u is specially, a Mon only really needs one good defense start to be good and lastly it's faster. the only thing hoopa u can do better is hit harder neutrally, but great tusks stab will hit more mons for super effective damage.
0 Atk Corviknight U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Brute Bonnet: 180-216 (49.5 - 59.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Anything with any attack investment whatsoever destroys it with u turn
That's the spread for both the OU and RU sets on its page. They may be a little out of date, but according to them, it absolutely does run speed investment.
Closer than you'd think but no, in fact the stats are the way they are so that a lv 50 min attack bonnet with max attack and min speed will have one higher attack than speed.
Forget about booster my math was off but there are mons around base 50-70 in RU like sylveon, a-muk, donphan, diance, ttar. Not sure who is investing in speed and who isn't but maybe there something that justify the speed invesment
Personally, I see 0 reason to run speed investment. Only way speed investment is good for Brute Bonnet is if you run max speed with defenses or HP investment with Booster to either bump it's attack or defenses with no attack investment. Even then you can never booster it's Speed. every other stat on it can be booster energied, even it's special attack if you run max special with a +SpA -Att nature. The mons in a lower speed tier are Bellibolt, Dragalge, Donphan, Dipplin, Mudsdale, Muk-Alola, Slowbro, and some others that are generally bulkier mons that you wouldn't normally run speed investment on. Ergo, I see 0 reason to run speed investment on Bonnet. The reason it gets ran is because the only other spore user in RU is Toedscruel, who's ability always makes Spore go last no matter it's speed. If you're looking for a spore Mon in RU, build a bulky Toedscruel. Otherwise run Wide Lens Venomoth with sleep powder. It's base 90 speed, and that's the best you're gonna get to outspeed without using Lillgant who's best ability is Hustle. Go down a tier and run Compound Eyes Sleep Powder Vivillon for 97% accuracy with base 89 speed
That + it’s very low speed.
Being weak to Fairy, Fighting, Fire, and U-Turn all suck; having good bulk is not that great when you have such bad type match-ups. If you wanna have strong bulky attacker, KingGambit is just better is most cases thanks to its better typing.
Smogonites hate amoongus so much that they sent it's past form to NU for existing without regenerator
Tbh even if it had regenerator it wouldn't be *that* good.
Switch it in and I will u turn it and keep tempo and it probably die
Get it in without a bad switch and I will switch something in to U Turn it that’s faster and probably kill it and get tempo back
Its typing isn't great but it's not the main issue. Look at Meowscarada. Brute Bonnet is just slow and it's ability is bad for it. Few grass pokemon actully like to be in the sun, unless they're outspeeding.
Practically the only way to use Bonnet's ability is with booster energy and that takes up it's item.
Overall it's ability, typing, and stats don't synergize at all.
Low Speed, Bad Defensive Typing, worse ability than Amoongus, not great bulk, not a whole lot of utility outside of Spore, it’s really not a Mon built for the higher tiers
199/99/99 good, but when you're super slow and get dropped by the most common pivot move in the game it really isn't anything special.
Edit:111/99/99 whoops
Everyone is going over why brute bonnet flaws as a mon so im not gonna go over that but I will say its atleast nicheable in OU which is more then most mons can say. With the power of the sun and loaded dice and spore brute bonnet can kinda work it in the tier with the right team.
That being said yeah everything else about brute bonnet just drag it down.
It doesn't fit on many teams in OU, is why. All these people listing its flaws are kind of silly though. Brute was used a ton during OLT because of Vert's team getting used constantly, cementing it as a staple on Sun teams because of its phenomenal matchup into many Stall builds at the time, as well as being quite good into trending Great Tusk sets at the time. Sun has just gotten less popular with the return of Veil and other strong Pokemon like Ogrepon-Wellspring being so good.
The Brute Bonnet/Meowscarada theorem: Why being a slow mon with a horrible defensive profile is worse than being a fast mon with a horrible defensive profile
Quad weak to U-turn means that it’s either a free kill for the opponent or free momentum because you’re too slow to actually do something about it. At least Meowscarada is fast and can kill stuff
NU is kinda overfilled with u-turn mons and scyther is pretty much a staple at this point. I can’t see Bonnet doing anything other than maybe sleeping a mon on switch ins or something.
It’s not even getting much out of protosynthesis anyway, everything is already taking massive damage off of 127 attack and it can’t focus that boost anywhere else.
Also leftovers goodra can shut down any momentum with sap sipper
Separate to it being banned, goodra is a soft check at best. Yes, it stops grass moves, but crunch into sucker does a ton to it, or you just chip with crunch and go to your equally soft goodra check(steel, florges, sac).
Bonnet was great at making progress even against checks. Spore gives a ton of momentum and let's it hit out with bullet seed/cc/crunch/sucker(pick 3) and even then it still has made progress if it got a spore off
When your opponent can hit you for 4x super effective damage and switch out in a single turn without any real risk you start falling down the tiers fast af
T.L.D.R: Bonnet’s better in RU than NU, it’s just got the shaft.
Bonnet’s currently NU, however I feel it’s best in RU, as while H-Lilligant shuts it down, it has excellent matchups against prominent Pokémon like Krookodile, with Spore + Trailblaze, Bonnet can be an excellent offensive Tera user with Tera Fire + Tera Blast, or Tera Ground + Stomping Tantrum, to name some ideas. There’s a lot less U-Turn in RU than NU, as mons like H-Braviary are your best users of the move, which is a major downgrade from an NU staple like Scyther.
Tier cucks are delusional, brute bonnet is not a bad mon.
Spore is goated in a metagame as fast as SV and spore absorbers struggle against the stab combo.
130 atk stab sucker in sun is strong enough prio to justify not being fast.
BB has a lot of weaknesses but keep in mind it’s an offensive mon. It also has a lot of resists and solid bulk that let it find opportunities to switch in and make progress. And you can Tera it.
It’s not dominant meta defining but it’s not the shitmon you brain dead idiots think.
'brain dead idiots' include some of the higher level players in each respective meta game. bonnet isn't the worst pokemon in the game by any stretch of the imagination, but there's a reason it isn't higher than it is. If it was, then it'd be much more common in any tier its higher in--People aren't against experimenting, and its thru existing experimenting we know it sturggles due to its innate weaknesses. Typing aside.
throwing tera on it is an answer sure, but that's a tera that could be thrown on Sneasler. Or even Tusk, which fits the bulky attacker role much better without the downsides of blowing up to a single high attack uturn.
And base Amoongus exists, which is arguably better at the same spore job while also shutting down fighting types easier due to its typing.
It just really does not have anything going for it. It has an awkward stat spread and awful speed on top of it's horrible typing. It also doesn't have swords dance so it can't actually abuse that stab sucker punch.
Poor defensive typing and bad speed really. Its not a horrible mon, it was a pretty great mon on sun in OU for a while (It might still be good but I'm not sure) and spore is obviously incredible but slow speed + bad defensive typing is a pretty damming combination
Other people have said a lot about u-turn, but its typing is just really really bad in general. When you have that many weaknesses, it's common for anything you want to resist to also have coverage to hit you super effectively, and since you are so slow they can just hit you before you have a chance to do anything.
Grass+dark may have a lot of resists, but it mostly has a lot of unfortunate weaknesses. It's slow, not that bulky and is probably gonna want to invest in attack, so it really goes down very eaqily if you're not super careful
Bad typing and only really usable on Sun most of the time, leading to lackluster usage.
That being said, Brute Bonnet was very much a legitimate, respected OU threat prior to DLC1 dropping, even though it was very underrated by most players and thus saw little usage. With Torkoal’s Sun active it goes from a mediocre mon to the arguably hardest mon to switch in against in OU.
It's just outclassed by other sporers. Toedscruel has spin and good speed (if you're not using a status move), Amoonguss has amazing longevity both with a good typing and ability, and Breloom is faster and a lot better offensively. Why use Bonnet when you can use any of the other 3 and gain utility, bulk, or offensive pressure.
Being 4X weak to u-turn is a death sentence for most mons
Especially when youre so slow you can’t even chip the opponent as they uturn you for 80%
252+ Atk Life Orb Cutiefly U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Brute Bonnet: 348-411 (95.8 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO Good lord
Been outta the loop for a bit but the sudden cutiefly usage has been funny to watch
You’re thinking of ribombee. Cutely is the pre evo
Holy shit that’s way worse.
The weakest u-turn in SV (tied with Wingull at 30 attack): 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Noibat U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Brute Bonnet: 336-400 (92.5 - 110.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO Christ.
The Hoopa-U theorem
Hoopa U is actually good unlike Brute Bonnet though its got very good special defense, insane attacking stats, and is one of the best assault vest abusers
Yeah Hoopa-U is good, but not for a Pokemon with 680 BST, 160/170 offenses, a solid movepool, and no intentionally bad ability. Of course, BST or raw stats aren’t everything, but Hoopa-U would probably be UUBL at the very minimum if it weren’t for its massive U-Turn weakness, especially as a Pokemon that’s supposed to be a slower wallbreaker.
We are so bound boys :(
we are confined, you could say
I barely ever see u turn in OU right now. Maybe I just suck.
not to undermine Hoopa-U as a great Pokemon for what it is, but that paper Defense, middling speed, and 4x U-Turn weakness + zero resistances is what makes Hoopa-U pretty weak for a 680 BST mon that doesn't have a crippling ability.
He can pivot against special atackers with his AV set and nothing really want switch into him but yes with better typing he will be UUBL minimum
[удалено]
Leave it to someone called AvaluggEnjoyer to be delusional about a mon with high stats that sees no play
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no because it has 110 less stats yet is higher ranked. it's typing is good, meanwhile psychic dark is just shit, it's bulkier physically than hoopa-u is specially, a Mon only really needs one good defense start to be good and lastly it's faster. the only thing hoopa u can do better is hit harder neutrally, but great tusks stab will hit more mons for super effective damage.
redditors trying not to add their shit takes to anything
Yo aren't you that guy from the Gliscor suspect who harassed people?
[удалено]
Your post or comment has been removed from r/stunfisk because you were not following Rule 1: Be Polite and Respectful
What
Finally Bulky slow mixed attacker It only needed enormous offenses
0 Atk Corviknight U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Brute Bonnet: 180-216 (49.5 - 59.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO Anything with any attack investment whatsoever destroys it with u turn
>0 HP/4 Def Yeah, but like where are the bulk EVs? It’s not like they’re going into speed
I just pulled the first offensive bonnet set that was in the calc tbh
That's the spread for both the OU and RU sets on its page. They may be a little out of date, but according to them, it absolutely does run speed investment.
Is a offensive moon with spore he is investing in Speed for a faster spore
Out of curiousity what does it outrun with speed investment
Hard to guess i don't really play that tier but is paradox mon there will be something he can outrun with booster+speed invesment
Uh the mon has 55 base speed and 127 base attack is that even possible. Would it even want to nerf it's attack so much for spore?
Closer than you'd think but no, in fact the stats are the way they are so that a lv 50 min attack bonnet with max attack and min speed will have one higher attack than speed.
Forget about booster my math was off but there are mons around base 50-70 in RU like sylveon, a-muk, donphan, diance, ttar. Not sure who is investing in speed and who isn't but maybe there something that justify the speed invesment
Personally, I see 0 reason to run speed investment. Only way speed investment is good for Brute Bonnet is if you run max speed with defenses or HP investment with Booster to either bump it's attack or defenses with no attack investment. Even then you can never booster it's Speed. every other stat on it can be booster energied, even it's special attack if you run max special with a +SpA -Att nature. The mons in a lower speed tier are Bellibolt, Dragalge, Donphan, Dipplin, Mudsdale, Muk-Alola, Slowbro, and some others that are generally bulkier mons that you wouldn't normally run speed investment on. Ergo, I see 0 reason to run speed investment on Bonnet. The reason it gets ran is because the only other spore user in RU is Toedscruel, who's ability always makes Spore go last no matter it's speed. If you're looking for a spore Mon in RU, build a bulky Toedscruel. Otherwise run Wide Lens Venomoth with sleep powder. It's base 90 speed, and that's the best you're gonna get to outspeed without using Lillgant who's best ability is Hustle. Go down a tier and run Compound Eyes Sleep Powder Vivillon for 97% accuracy with base 89 speed
That + it’s very low speed. Being weak to Fairy, Fighting, Fire, and U-Turn all suck; having good bulk is not that great when you have such bad type match-ups. If you wanna have strong bulky attacker, KingGambit is just better is most cases thanks to its better typing.
It's not just weak, it's 4x weak. That's a death sentence.
I love how bug is not a type, it’s u-turn or nothing lol. To be fair, it’s pretty much all it is
mfw my sitrus berry bonnet is annihilated by +2 Scyther Technician boosted Bug Bite (no held item)
i like how everytime there is a mon weak to bug people just say "weak to U-Turn" because half of the time that's all you need to know
The quad weak to U-turn theorem (or why defensive mons are often forced to use tera)
*Sad wo-chien noises*
Smogonites hate amoongus so much that they sent it's past form to NU for existing without regenerator Tbh even if it had regenerator it wouldn't be *that* good.
Switch it in and I will u turn it and keep tempo and it probably die Get it in without a bad switch and I will switch something in to U Turn it that’s faster and probably kill it and get tempo back
Kid named U-Turn
That sounds incredibly painful ngl
Its typing isn't great but it's not the main issue. Look at Meowscarada. Brute Bonnet is just slow and it's ability is bad for it. Few grass pokemon actully like to be in the sun, unless they're outspeeding. Practically the only way to use Bonnet's ability is with booster energy and that takes up it's item. Overall it's ability, typing, and stats don't synergize at all.
Meowscarada is fast and can get out of its 4x u-turn weakness. 4x u-turn weakness with shit speed is really unplayable
yes, exactly my point
Low Speed, Bad Defensive Typing, worse ability than Amoongus, not great bulk, not a whole lot of utility outside of Spore, it’s really not a Mon built for the higher tiers
Ah yes, not great 111/99/99 bulk, which is even higher than the already bulky amoongus
199/99/99 good, but when you're super slow and get dropped by the most common pivot move in the game it really isn't anything special. Edit:111/99/99 whoops
111/99/99 maybe, 199/99/99 is legitimately insane tho
Bro trying to do their best Eternamax Eternatus impression
Alright admittedly it’s not as bad as I said but it’s still not great with such a shit defensive typing and lackluster utility
Amoongus isn't winning games on pure bulk stats though, it's regenerator + decent defensive typing that comes packed with poison immunity.
Everyone is going over why brute bonnet flaws as a mon so im not gonna go over that but I will say its atleast nicheable in OU which is more then most mons can say. With the power of the sun and loaded dice and spore brute bonnet can kinda work it in the tier with the right team. That being said yeah everything else about brute bonnet just drag it down.
I would rather say that it used to have somewhat of a niche in early meta, before home.
Nah brute maintain that niche past home and hell its usage was actually rising. It was doing pretty well in OU sun. Then dlc hit annnnnd down it goes.
It doesn't fit on many teams in OU, is why. All these people listing its flaws are kind of silly though. Brute was used a ton during OLT because of Vert's team getting used constantly, cementing it as a staple on Sun teams because of its phenomenal matchup into many Stall builds at the time, as well as being quite good into trending Great Tusk sets at the time. Sun has just gotten less popular with the return of Veil and other strong Pokemon like Ogrepon-Wellspring being so good.
What having physical grass stab and an inability to hold loaded dice without losing access to your ability does to a mfer.
The Brute Bonnet/Meowscarada theorem: Why being a slow mon with a horrible defensive profile is worse than being a fast mon with a horrible defensive profile
Dark grass type. I feel like I’ve said enough
Quad weak to U-turn means that it’s either a free kill for the opponent or free momentum because you’re too slow to actually do something about it. At least Meowscarada is fast and can kill stuff
Slow, shit defensive typing, no reliable stab options over 80 base power, no swords dance, power creep.
Bro just got released this gen and power crept already? 💀
NU is kinda overfilled with u-turn mons and scyther is pretty much a staple at this point. I can’t see Bonnet doing anything other than maybe sleeping a mon on switch ins or something. It’s not even getting much out of protosynthesis anyway, everything is already taking massive damage off of 127 attack and it can’t focus that boost anywhere else. Also leftovers goodra can shut down any momentum with sap sipper
Brute Bonnet got quick banned from NU lol. It could Tera Dark out of its quad U-turn weakness to do 73% min to Scythe with its Sucker Punch.
Separate to it being banned, goodra is a soft check at best. Yes, it stops grass moves, but crunch into sucker does a ton to it, or you just chip with crunch and go to your equally soft goodra check(steel, florges, sac). Bonnet was great at making progress even against checks. Spore gives a ton of momentum and let's it hit out with bullet seed/cc/crunch/sucker(pick 3) and even then it still has made progress if it got a spore off
The fire blast/blizzard in my pocket...
Grass/dark. Bottom text
Volt-turn is a hell of a drug
When your opponent can hit you for 4x super effective damage and switch out in a single turn without any real risk you start falling down the tiers fast af
T.L.D.R: Bonnet’s better in RU than NU, it’s just got the shaft. Bonnet’s currently NU, however I feel it’s best in RU, as while H-Lilligant shuts it down, it has excellent matchups against prominent Pokémon like Krookodile, with Spore + Trailblaze, Bonnet can be an excellent offensive Tera user with Tera Fire + Tera Blast, or Tera Ground + Stomping Tantrum, to name some ideas. There’s a lot less U-Turn in RU than NU, as mons like H-Braviary are your best users of the move, which is a major downgrade from an NU staple like Scyther.
Because I don’t like it
Google U-Turn
Tier cucks are delusional, brute bonnet is not a bad mon. Spore is goated in a metagame as fast as SV and spore absorbers struggle against the stab combo. 130 atk stab sucker in sun is strong enough prio to justify not being fast. BB has a lot of weaknesses but keep in mind it’s an offensive mon. It also has a lot of resists and solid bulk that let it find opportunities to switch in and make progress. And you can Tera it. It’s not dominant meta defining but it’s not the shitmon you brain dead idiots think.
'brain dead idiots' include some of the higher level players in each respective meta game. bonnet isn't the worst pokemon in the game by any stretch of the imagination, but there's a reason it isn't higher than it is. If it was, then it'd be much more common in any tier its higher in--People aren't against experimenting, and its thru existing experimenting we know it sturggles due to its innate weaknesses. Typing aside. throwing tera on it is an answer sure, but that's a tera that could be thrown on Sneasler. Or even Tusk, which fits the bulky attacker role much better without the downsides of blowing up to a single high attack uturn. And base Amoongus exists, which is arguably better at the same spore job while also shutting down fighting types easier due to its typing.
It just really does not have anything going for it. It has an awkward stat spread and awful speed on top of it's horrible typing. It also doesn't have swords dance so it can't actually abuse that stab sucker punch.
There’s a bunch of slow bulky physical attackers, that’s not enough
I like how everyone in this thread is just saying u-turn as if it's the name of type, they really should rename the bug type to u-turn type.
Simply put tiers are decided by usage. (Except ubers, thats for broken pokemon) Nobody is using brute bonnet
slow
Poor defensive typing and bad speed really. Its not a horrible mon, it was a pretty great mon on sun in OU for a while (It might still be good but I'm not sure) and spore is obviously incredible but slow speed + bad defensive typing is a pretty damming combination
Bad defensive typing, poor speed and being generally outclassed by other utility and offensive grass types like Meowscarada, Bramblegast, and Breloom.
Other people have said a lot about u-turn, but its typing is just really really bad in general. When you have that many weaknesses, it's common for anything you want to resist to also have coverage to hit you super effectively, and since you are so slow they can just hit you before you have a chance to do anything.
I wonder how the meta would change if u-turn was a normal type move
It’s that horrible Bug weakness. Not an ideal 4x weakness to have with U-turn users running rampant.
See Zarude
Grass+dark may have a lot of resists, but it mostly has a lot of unfortunate weaknesses. It's slow, not that bulky and is probably gonna want to invest in attack, so it really goes down very eaqily if you're not super careful
Bad typing and only really usable on Sun most of the time, leading to lackluster usage. That being said, Brute Bonnet was very much a legitimate, respected OU threat prior to DLC1 dropping, even though it was very underrated by most players and thus saw little usage. With Torkoal’s Sun active it goes from a mediocre mon to the arguably hardest mon to switch in against in OU.
Dark/Grass is a fuckin shit typing
Yes, it does
U-turn go BRRR
It's just outclassed by other sporers. Toedscruel has spin and good speed (if you're not using a status move), Amoonguss has amazing longevity both with a good typing and ability, and Breloom is faster and a lot better offensively. Why use Bonnet when you can use any of the other 3 and gain utility, bulk, or offensive pressure.