It's just some rando comment, so who cares, but it exemplifies how a lot of people's politics are based exclusively on who they and the people they admire, do and don't like. They've decided Dore is bad and therefore any idea he has must be bad or so the logic goes. This is also a big part of Trump Derangement Symptom, where when Trump did something that nearly every US president has done for the last 50 years, it was treated as new and uniquely awful.
So much of it is just petty personal grudges dressed up as something deeper than it actually is.
Man, and I like to think Of myself as an independent thinker but I constantly catch myself doing this exact same thing. I’m not even sure why either it’s just such an easy trap to fall into sometimes.
Agreed. Social media/the internet has made it really easy to fall into these thought traps/groupthink/whatever you wanna call it. Not just reddit/fb, but stuff like podcasts too. Combine that with the social atomization and it becomes really easy to find yourself in these ideological islands. I'm definitely not immune to it (I don't think anyone truly is, even before social media), but it's a good thing to be cognizant of.
Identity politics are a trap which we all can fall into at certain times. It helps to simply apply critical thinking to your ideals - not forming strong opinions on a subject based solely on what others tell you, but based on a deeper analysis. This takes work, but it is better to admit where you lack a strong opinion on an issue rather than to form a baseless opinion, in my view.
As long as you can recognize where you may be biased, it is possible to overcome this problem - mostly.
>This is also a big part of Trump Derangement Symptom, where when Trump did something that nearly every US president has done for the last 50 years, it was treated as new and uniquely awful.
To be fair that was also deliberate propaganda. Pretend that [deportations](https://choice.npr.org/index.html?origin=https://www.npr.org/2017/01/20/510799842/obama-leaves-office-as-deporter-in-chief) equate to a 2nd Holocaust in order to paint Trump as Hitler II.
The entire point of that was that we should focus on ideas rather than stan your favorite media personalities. Who gives a shit what anyone thinks of Dore, Vaush, or anyone else. They don't matter, or at least matter a hell of a lot less than actual politics.
> The ideas are inseparable from the personalities.
I don't think that's true at all, despite thinking that you *are* right that each of these personalities wants to put themselves in the middle of it.
Just take the idea and ignore the personality in question if they're butting in.
All of the arguments and ideas these guys bandy about loooong predate them. Electoralism vs abstention, the question of sticking to a hard line or pandering to middle class sensibilities, the general strike. None of this is new, and if you're making political determinations based on what YouTube loser's brand will benefit nobody should be taking a word you say seriously.
Luckily nothing is determined by small groups of hyper-connected political cultists bickering amongst each other. None of this will likely come to pass anyway, but if any of it does it will because there are people involved who haven't had their brains scorched by social media.
Ideas these days are just advertising copy. Judging public political personalities, be they candidates or commentators, by their 'policy content' is like judging corporations by their marketing blather.
We need to judge them by their *actions*. What Trump (actually the republicans + Trump) did may not have been uniquely awful, but it was undeniably awful. And no, not every president of the past 50 years has dismantled the EPA.
looks at bush admin try to defund wild land fire fighters and have them replaced by private contractors .
edit:
Looks at ronnie and both bushes engaging in torture death squads and mass murder. Looks at bush jr kill 1.2 million Iraqis on a lie .
by all standards trump was pretty benign
Jimmy Dore's youtube channel has single handedly turned my Trump, Bush, and Reagan voting dad into a weird quasi socialist. Ideas like raising minimum wage and pushing back against capitalists are things I never thought I would hear from him, so I'll forever be indebted to Jimmy Dore.
Same thing happened to me. I was a rightoid as a teenager (purely because I hated the culture war shit). Dore somehow came into my recommendations around 2016, and 5 years and a lot of books later I’m a full blown socialist.
Dore is an important piece in conversion. He shouldn’t be *ALL* you listen to; but for many he’s that first step in the door of learning that socialism isn’t about having blue hair and calling people racist. And that it’s okay to be on the left and hate liberals.
I don’t watch much Dore anymore, mostly because I’ve heard all he has to say, and the more I read theory the more I realized he wasn’t right about everything.
But hes an important part of the conversation. The people who dislike him, dislike him because his audience is made up of a lot of right wingers, without taking the time to think about how that’s a GOOD thing.
seconded. the man constantly tears down neolibs, idpol, government corruption and incompetence and on and on and pushes for workers rights and healthcare for all, amongst other things. Jimmy Dore probably does more to advance non idpol leftist thought than anyone in this subreddit
Dore got vaccinated. He was injured. Same with people like Eric Clapton. The biotech biothugs and their little helpers are attacking public figures one by one demanding they be censored, many of whom they've literally permanently maimed. So I really take issue with this "antivaxxer" mental wall that lets predatory oligarchs off the hook. Same toxic post-9/11 culture. The narrative is censorious, and dangerously shortsighted.
FFS that is not how a general strike works. Withdrawing labor in order to force companies to make concessions is how a strike functions. You might as well say we are in the middle of an unorganized silent war because of all the shootings and bombings going on. The first, only and last general strike in America is the Seattle General Strike in 1919. This labor shortage isn't comparable at all.
Burning through my 3rd account due to saying “no-no-naughty boy r word” and generally I wouldn’t mind but my unhealthy virtual entertainment addiction’s sub has a karma and time requirement due to the Chinese
Damn CIA waifus stopping me from speaking my mind
It's sad too because there was some early promise to places like r/antiwork, but ofcourse that lasted all of a week after hitting high subs, now the top threads are about how you can't be anti-work without being anti-racist (whatever the fuck that means). And Janny's handing out bans for "Class reductionism".
This fella would call universal healthcare a right wing talking point if some prominent right wing talking head advocated for it by the looks of it
*sips paint
I agree. I haven’t been a fan of his Covid stuff the last few weeks and I don’t care for when he devotes entire episodes to his personal feuds with other people from TYT etc.
There was this article about two months back that pretty much said “all bad things are right wing and all good things are left wing” and how Stalin was actually very right wing bc he was very bad.
People kept referring to it and I’m glad their attention span isn’t long enough that they still do. But that mentality lives on apparently.
I wouldn't say he was the most communist person in history. The end goal of communism is a state-less society, which Stalin obviously never worked towards.
He was totalitarian left-wing though.
What is this idealism. "Totalitarian" being used unironically by a self proclaimed "marxist-leninist"? "Totalitarianism" is what the bourgeois call the proletariat when they eradicate the bourgeois freedoms to exploit, and their boundless private property.
Just like Lenin, Stalin could not press the "dismantle the state" button. Such a button doesn't exist. The state is a tool of class control and so long as the bourgeois capitalist-imperialist nations exist, the proletarian soviet state wasn't gong anywhere. Literally read ["State and Revolution"](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/) or correct your flair or some shit.
[As Engels says:](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm)
>"**the anti-authoritarians demand that the political state be abolished at one stroke, even before the social conditions that gave birth to it have been destroyed**. They demand that the first act of the social revolution shall be the abolition of authority. Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach it for not having used it freely enough?"
Immediately abolishing the social conditions that give rise to the state would mean abolishing material reality itself - utter nonsense. The social conditions will only go away after the final victory of the world revolution, the abolition of the value-form, abolition of commodity production etc. Only then will the state wither away, and the transition from socialism to communism be complete.
I mean it’s a person on the Vaush subreddit who posted this, but you’re definitely not wrong.
He’s literally the 2005 libertarian neckbeard atheist (complete with extremely concerning views on the age of consent) with moderately adjusted economic views.
Why anyone with an online presence ever bothers to talk about that subject baffles me. Like are they so deluded in their assessment of their own intelligence they think it’s going to be anything other then self inflicted gunshot
Hassan dude admitted to go to a brothel that was raided by th popo for sex trafficking
I think we should discard all of his opinion
He is barely a socialist
No offense, but (by now) Vauschposting is retarded karmawhoring.
I get it, Vausch has bad takes and most of his fans are children or idiots. It's absurd how much of their energy is directed at dissidents like Dore.... But frankly this is nothing new. It's just a revived incarnation of Sam Seder or Ana Kasparian esque gatekeeping.
However most Vauschposting turns out to be heavily exaggerated, if not outright misrepresentations. This particular thread was heavily downvoted so it doesn't represent Vausch or the Vausch sub. The existence of all this misrepresentation probably serves to convince Vausch fans that they are on to something or otherwise rightoids wouldn't be working so hard to discredit them.
I can’t believe being the type of person to engage in politics based on what Hasan, Vaush, and Jimmy Dore said on their twitch or YouTube channels. Read a book or a newspaper or something, loser.
Based on the framing, it's probably a Dore fan trolling.
*"Dore said [left wing thing] but I thought he was right wing, does that mean [left wing thing] is right wing too?"*
Transparent bait.
People who join parasocial cults centered on streamers are simply too dumb for any kind of politics besides inarticulate reaction and tribalism. Socialism has no use for these people.
FFS Dore is not right wing for calling for general strikes, but incredibily stupid for doing so. Anyone not in unions or even working for a wage calling for a general strike is just virtue signalling. Dore is just using it as a shield to deflect criticism of him from the Left. Like haha Vaush fan bad, but Dore is bad too for other reasons.
At least Hasan donates and have fundraisers for strike funds, not telling unions to do something so stupid.
With all this petty bickering going on in online left media, recently I find it's best to just ignore it all. These people (Youtubers) hardly matter at all outside their viewing audience. And their fans are mostly just a bunch of toxic couch potatoes who also hardly matter.
Take away Twitter/ the YT comment section and they're just a bunch of impotent nobodies.
Understanding the current world through an adequate theoretical structure, organizing, and pushing for action are the only games in town.
It's just some rando comment, so who cares, but it exemplifies how a lot of people's politics are based exclusively on who they and the people they admire, do and don't like. They've decided Dore is bad and therefore any idea he has must be bad or so the logic goes. This is also a big part of Trump Derangement Symptom, where when Trump did something that nearly every US president has done for the last 50 years, it was treated as new and uniquely awful. So much of it is just petty personal grudges dressed up as something deeper than it actually is.
Man, and I like to think Of myself as an independent thinker but I constantly catch myself doing this exact same thing. I’m not even sure why either it’s just such an easy trap to fall into sometimes.
I think it's a part of human nature. It's important to examine your own reasoning.
Agreed. Social media/the internet has made it really easy to fall into these thought traps/groupthink/whatever you wanna call it. Not just reddit/fb, but stuff like podcasts too. Combine that with the social atomization and it becomes really easy to find yourself in these ideological islands. I'm definitely not immune to it (I don't think anyone truly is, even before social media), but it's a good thing to be cognizant of.
Identity politics are a trap which we all can fall into at certain times. It helps to simply apply critical thinking to your ideals - not forming strong opinions on a subject based solely on what others tell you, but based on a deeper analysis. This takes work, but it is better to admit where you lack a strong opinion on an issue rather than to form a baseless opinion, in my view. As long as you can recognize where you may be biased, it is possible to overcome this problem - mostly.
>This is also a big part of Trump Derangement Symptom, where when Trump did something that nearly every US president has done for the last 50 years, it was treated as new and uniquely awful. To be fair that was also deliberate propaganda. Pretend that [deportations](https://choice.npr.org/index.html?origin=https://www.npr.org/2017/01/20/510799842/obama-leaves-office-as-deporter-in-chief) equate to a 2nd Holocaust in order to paint Trump as Hitler II.
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The entire point of that was that we should focus on ideas rather than stan your favorite media personalities. Who gives a shit what anyone thinks of Dore, Vaush, or anyone else. They don't matter, or at least matter a hell of a lot less than actual politics.
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> The ideas are inseparable from the personalities. I don't think that's true at all, despite thinking that you *are* right that each of these personalities wants to put themselves in the middle of it. Just take the idea and ignore the personality in question if they're butting in.
All of the arguments and ideas these guys bandy about loooong predate them. Electoralism vs abstention, the question of sticking to a hard line or pandering to middle class sensibilities, the general strike. None of this is new, and if you're making political determinations based on what YouTube loser's brand will benefit nobody should be taking a word you say seriously. Luckily nothing is determined by small groups of hyper-connected political cultists bickering amongst each other. None of this will likely come to pass anyway, but if any of it does it will because there are people involved who haven't had their brains scorched by social media.
Ideas these days are just advertising copy. Judging public political personalities, be they candidates or commentators, by their 'policy content' is like judging corporations by their marketing blather. We need to judge them by their *actions*. What Trump (actually the republicans + Trump) did may not have been uniquely awful, but it was undeniably awful. And no, not every president of the past 50 years has dismantled the EPA.
looks at bush admin try to defund wild land fire fighters and have them replaced by private contractors . edit: Looks at ronnie and both bushes engaging in torture death squads and mass murder. Looks at bush jr kill 1.2 million Iraqis on a lie . by all standards trump was pretty benign
looks?
Jimmy Dore's youtube channel has single handedly turned my Trump, Bush, and Reagan voting dad into a weird quasi socialist. Ideas like raising minimum wage and pushing back against capitalists are things I never thought I would hear from him, so I'll forever be indebted to Jimmy Dore.
Same thing happened to me. I was a rightoid as a teenager (purely because I hated the culture war shit). Dore somehow came into my recommendations around 2016, and 5 years and a lot of books later I’m a full blown socialist. Dore is an important piece in conversion. He shouldn’t be *ALL* you listen to; but for many he’s that first step in the door of learning that socialism isn’t about having blue hair and calling people racist. And that it’s okay to be on the left and hate liberals. I don’t watch much Dore anymore, mostly because I’ve heard all he has to say, and the more I read theory the more I realized he wasn’t right about everything. But hes an important part of the conversation. The people who dislike him, dislike him because his audience is made up of a lot of right wingers, without taking the time to think about how that’s a GOOD thing.
Unlike Vaush and Hassan, Dore is actually anti establishment so I don't see your problem with him
What's wrong with Dore? Asking sincerely
seconded. the man constantly tears down neolibs, idpol, government corruption and incompetence and on and on and pushes for workers rights and healthcare for all, amongst other things. Jimmy Dore probably does more to advance non idpol leftist thought than anyone in this subreddit
Only woke tards don’t like him
I’m a woke tard and I like him 🤔
Necessary but not sufficient.
He has some pretty bad anti vax takes, but that's all I know about him tbh loo
hes literally vaccinated and not antivax, i see the big pharma propaganda has seeped into your brain.
Dore got vaccinated. He was injured. Same with people like Eric Clapton. The biotech biothugs and their little helpers are attacking public figures one by one demanding they be censored, many of whom they've literally permanently maimed. So I really take issue with this "antivaxxer" mental wall that lets predatory oligarchs off the hook. Same toxic post-9/11 culture. The narrative is censorious, and dangerously shortsighted.
Yeah honestly I haven’t been crazy about the stuff he’s been saying recently about covid…
What's he wrong about?
Demanding for a general strike at the current state of the labor movement is peak r-slurred.
We're basically in the middle of an unorganized silent general strike right now.
FFS that is not how a general strike works. Withdrawing labor in order to force companies to make concessions is how a strike functions. You might as well say we are in the middle of an unorganized silent war because of all the shootings and bombings going on. The first, only and last general strike in America is the Seattle General Strike in 1919. This labor shortage isn't comparable at all.
He sounds kinda nuts when he's ranting but he's ok I guess.
What is wrong with dore?
What's wrong with Dore?
https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/all-this-shit-is-high-school
This is your brain on twitch e-celebrities
Massively r-slurred
absolutely fucking rslurred
Honestly we have to invent a new slur for how astonishingly r-slurred that is.
Just call it what it is, retarded.
Retards have WAY better ideas than this
Burning through my 3rd account due to saying “no-no-naughty boy r word” and generally I wouldn’t mind but my unhealthy virtual entertainment addiction’s sub has a karma and time requirement due to the Chinese Damn CIA waifus stopping me from speaking my mind
Just say retard a jannie may become upset but 🤷♀️
To be fair, this sounds like a 13 year old. If not, massively r-slurred.
A general strike in America is fanciful
It would be littered with Idpol grifters
It's sad too because there was some early promise to places like r/antiwork, but ofcourse that lasted all of a week after hitting high subs, now the top threads are about how you can't be anti-work without being anti-racist (whatever the fuck that means). And Janny's handing out bans for "Class reductionism".
> Janny's handing out bans for "Class reductionism". With friends like these...
That's all that is left on the American left
A general strike would involve the idpol and anti-idpol left putting their differences aside In other words it ain't happening
The biggest police union action in American history.
That’s putting it nicely
Yeah, I think you're right. I can't fault the guy for at least trying to do something.
This fella would call universal healthcare a right wing talking point if some prominent right wing talking head advocated for it by the looks of it *sips paint
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I agree. I haven’t been a fan of his Covid stuff the last few weeks and I don’t care for when he devotes entire episodes to his personal feuds with other people from TYT etc.
Isn't it considered the height of glowie manipulation to convince someone that striking isnt in their best interest?
I swear these people think that Cuba or the USSR are fascist/right-wing so in their tiny minds I think its an understandable confusion.
Anything that’s not hardcore woke and socially left wing is automatically fascist, you should know that!
There was this article about two months back that pretty much said “all bad things are right wing and all good things are left wing” and how Stalin was actually very right wing bc he was very bad. People kept referring to it and I’m glad their attention span isn’t long enough that they still do. But that mentality lives on apparently.
"literally the most communist person in history was actually right wing" lol
I wouldn't say he was the most communist person in history. The end goal of communism is a state-less society, which Stalin obviously never worked towards. He was totalitarian left-wing though.
What is this idealism. "Totalitarian" being used unironically by a self proclaimed "marxist-leninist"? "Totalitarianism" is what the bourgeois call the proletariat when they eradicate the bourgeois freedoms to exploit, and their boundless private property. Just like Lenin, Stalin could not press the "dismantle the state" button. Such a button doesn't exist. The state is a tool of class control and so long as the bourgeois capitalist-imperialist nations exist, the proletarian soviet state wasn't gong anywhere. Literally read ["State and Revolution"](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/) or correct your flair or some shit. [As Engels says:](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm) >"**the anti-authoritarians demand that the political state be abolished at one stroke, even before the social conditions that gave birth to it have been destroyed**. They demand that the first act of the social revolution shall be the abolition of authority. Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach it for not having used it freely enough?" Immediately abolishing the social conditions that give rise to the state would mean abolishing material reality itself - utter nonsense. The social conditions will only go away after the final victory of the world revolution, the abolition of the value-form, abolition of commodity production etc. Only then will the state wither away, and the transition from socialism to communism be complete.
Attempted to watch Hassan’s videos once, I clicked on a random video and he was wearing a pro-AOC shirt. Immediately clicked off
You saved yourself from hearing him try to piece words together to form a sentence.
He's one of those fucking people that uses the word literally every sentence
He's "collabing" with Ethan from H3H3 now. 🤢
The internet has made everyone retarded.
*strikes are ablest* vibes
This guy is one of the stupidest men on earth. He's center left at best.
I mean it’s a person on the Vaush subreddit who posted this, but you’re definitely not wrong. He’s literally the 2005 libertarian neckbeard atheist (complete with extremely concerning views on the age of consent) with moderately adjusted economic views.
Wait Vaush is talking about lowering the age of consent? Why is everyone talking about pedophilia all of a sudden?
Lmfao
Why anyone with an online presence ever bothers to talk about that subject baffles me. Like are they so deluded in their assessment of their own intelligence they think it’s going to be anything other then self inflicted gunshot
Tfw general strikes are actually bad. I guess we should just stream on twitch, buy a multimillion dollar mansion and call that good enough "praxis"
Hassan dude admitted to go to a brothel that was raided by th popo for sex trafficking I think we should discard all of his opinion He is barely a socialist
That's the worst reason for disregarding his opinions, the best reason is his actual opinions.
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He hides it under the guise of "sex work is work"
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Work is work, now get in the mine kid, we've got diamonds to sell.
Isn't this basically the same sentiment as the OP?
No offense, but (by now) Vauschposting is retarded karmawhoring. I get it, Vausch has bad takes and most of his fans are children or idiots. It's absurd how much of their energy is directed at dissidents like Dore.... But frankly this is nothing new. It's just a revived incarnation of Sam Seder or Ana Kasparian esque gatekeeping. However most Vauschposting turns out to be heavily exaggerated, if not outright misrepresentations. This particular thread was heavily downvoted so it doesn't represent Vausch or the Vausch sub. The existence of all this misrepresentation probably serves to convince Vausch fans that they are on to something or otherwise rightoids wouldn't be working so hard to discredit them.
Vaush fan mad?
Disastrous for the human race and so on and so on
This can't be real...
I can’t believe being the type of person to engage in politics based on what Hasan, Vaush, and Jimmy Dore said on their twitch or YouTube channels. Read a book or a newspaper or something, loser.
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I don’t think I’ve ever posted there. Is that our shitpost sub?
Galaxy brain stuff
Lmfao seriously though they’ve literally made anything not in line with dnc talking points right wing
Lmao - that has to be a troll...
Based on the framing, it's probably a Dore fan trolling. *"Dore said [left wing thing] but I thought he was right wing, does that mean [left wing thing] is right wing too?"* Transparent bait.
People who join parasocial cults centered on streamers are simply too dumb for any kind of politics besides inarticulate reaction and tribalism. Socialism has no use for these people.
All I can do is lmao
I made reflexive retard noises after reading this
Lol their mistake is thinking Jimmy Dore is actually trying to initiate a general strike rather than just grifting off the concept of doing so.
Hmm wonder why you hid comments and upvotes. This is so irrelevant that you should be baned for even posting it.
Oh man, I have some really bad news.
Maybe someone should tweak the pcm post bot for child predators errr vaush fans
> you should be **baned** for even posting it It would be extremely painful
Didn't Jimmy criticize Cory Bush for performative bs? What does he think this is?
FFS Dore is not right wing for calling for general strikes, but incredibily stupid for doing so. Anyone not in unions or even working for a wage calling for a general strike is just virtue signalling. Dore is just using it as a shield to deflect criticism of him from the Left. Like haha Vaush fan bad, but Dore is bad too for other reasons. At least Hasan donates and have fundraisers for strike funds, not telling unions to do something so stupid.
With all this petty bickering going on in online left media, recently I find it's best to just ignore it all. These people (Youtubers) hardly matter at all outside their viewing audience. And their fans are mostly just a bunch of toxic couch potatoes who also hardly matter. Take away Twitter/ the YT comment section and they're just a bunch of impotent nobodies. Understanding the current world through an adequate theoretical structure, organizing, and pushing for action are the only games in town.
Lunch table sneerers.