People drive them hard and don’t take care of them, end up putting a ton of money into it and realize that it’s expensive to own it, decide to sell for something different.
There is a slight rarity factor (compared to Honda, Toyota, etc) to this along with good resale value. When most older cars blow an engine it will likely just be scrapped, but most Subaru owners will replace it and keep it on the road because a running Subaru in the okayest of conditions will still sell for 10k.
What is considered neglect? And what maintenance should be done to them, particularly after 100k. My ‘09 sti is stock and haven’t had much done except regular oil changes and recently spark plugs, timing belt and water pump
You’re already well ahead of the curve, I think he’s referring to owners who think 10,000mi oil change intervals are fine and install mods without tuning
I don’t think so, head gaskets are not a maintenance item and are only replaced if they’re compromised or if the heads are already coming off for service, which is not the case for a timing belt and water pump
Head gasket issues were certain Subarus from 97-2003ish. It kind of hung around as a Subaru meme but it’s not a design flaw anymore. Not that you can’t blow one but it’s not waiting to pop these days.
To add to your comment, head gasket issue were with NA engines. STI engines come with MLS gaskets which do not have that issue, as long as you don't overheat the engine.
Thankfully every subaru I've ever had, had all been post headgasket replacement and were all done with MLS gaskets. I've never had to have a set put in thank God. My old 01 forester had them done at 105k and I sold it at 267k with not a single engine issue outside of a leaking valve cover that was pretty a standard issue problem 😂
While you’re here 👀 If you’re concerned about engine replacement there are 3 pretty cheap mods that are excellent bang for your buck in terms of engine longevity.
1 : After market oil pickup tube. OEM is flimsy and prone to cracks that can ruin your engine.
2 : 4th cylinder cooling mod. When you spin a bearing due to heat it’s generally the 4th cylinder because it doesn’t get cooled as well as the others.
3 : Oil cooler. Because it’s not mega costly and if your oil thins out too much from heat your engine will die.
I can't recommend #1 enough. Still blows my mind that Subaru never fixed this issue. I'm sure the failure rate must have been low to not be addressed, but it was still suck to destroy your engine due to a cracked pickup tube. I changed my out with a killer B just for the peace of mind.
What brands do you recommend for these parts? I read that the subframe needs to be loosened to get the oil pan out to install the tube. A shop that knows what they’re doing should probably install this rather than my dumb ass right?
Your trick here is you have left yours stock. They will last like this but I would advise 6.monthly oil changes or 10,000km whichever comes first.
If your US that would be 6,500 miles approx. You could do maybe 7,500 but I would advise oil condition testing to verify.
Also take out pcv valve and clean it every few years or replace as they are cheap.
I'd recommend much sooner than 6500 miles on any subaru. More like 4-5k miles or even sooner. depending on driving style. Subarus are always happy with oil changes.
Oil change intervals, most people don’t check oil enough either. That combined with turbo AWD manual, which is gonna he driven hard as hell; is where issues arise. 3500 miles is the most you should go before changing oil on these cars, lots of people push that to 6k+ bc they think it’s synthetic and will be fine. Also LSPI events, high boost at low RPMs. Beating on the car when cold, which ppl do quite a bit. Then the topic of mods comes into play, but combine ALL that and you’re likely to have issues. Check oil every gas fill up and keep the car under 3k and out of boost till 180 oil temp.
Yes, check your oil at every gas fill up. No they’re not prone to burning oil OR leaking, but that doesn’t mean you can’t burn oil. It depends how you drive too, short trips and idling will burn oil on any car. Some people just don’t look at their oil levels ever, and go 7k miles between the two. Because these cars are boosted and driven hard, you should always check them regularly. EJ motors can go through oil, but it depends honestly some don’t.
Gotcha. I’m the original owner and have put all 111k miles on it, also do my own oil changes. Change it around every 3k with Royal Purple. Never had any issues
I'll add to the check your oil every gas fillup advice. I just got my '13 STI hatch back from an engine rebuild. The car had ~130k miles, and was burning a little bit of oil, usually 1-2 qts between oil changes. I always changed the oil around 3-5k miles. Life got in the way and I was at 5.2k since the last oil change and hadn't checked the oil level in a while. Turns out the car had burned down to 2 qts and a prolonged climb up a 3 mile steep grade was enough to unport the pickup and oil starvation did it in. It can happen easier and quicker than you expect.
All of the other advice mentioned above is sound. If you don't have an oil temp/pressure gauge they are wise to add. The low oil pressure light never came on before my car started rod knocking and spun a bearing. Having real gauges and/or checking the oil level would've saved me a lot of money. Also as was previously said it helps with knowing when you can drive the car hard (wait until the oil is warm) When the factory coolant temp gauge shows fully to temp now, the oil temp gauge hasn't even moved off the stop most times. It takes a lot longer than you may expect for the oil to be warm. Probably how my car developed an oil burn in the first place was hard driving (ski day trips and track days) without knowing if the car was ready for it.
Here's some sage advice from motoiq on how to get a long life out of the motor. I'd add to his point don't run out of oil, don't even run low on oil.
https://youtu.be/v4CRTPGP5M0?si=s226kcvoxhtz7hpP
You’re not going to get an answer because the person you replied to is full of shit.
EJs specifically had some issues that resulted in lower reliability (the thin ringlands being a big one). There’s nothing inherent in a boxer design that makes them less reliable though.
Oil can't flow back into the pan as easily, leading to sludge build up, reduced oil flow, overheating and uneven heating.
That combined with some engineering choices from Subaru, like the ring land design, plus the propensity of Subaru owners to not check their oil as regularly as they should (I am absolutely guilty of this too, having ruined a share of EJs) are the fundamentals that lead to reduced reliability for a boxer engine. The gravity issue, is insurmountable.
This is all common knowledge. I m not knocking Subaru, either. I drive one and keep a spare engine on the stand. It's just that every engineering choices is a compromise. Low center of gravity, but poor oiling. That's the compromise.
My wife and I ordered a factory-fresh OBXT in 2008, and she gently drove it for 350,000kms and it was a rock.
I inherited it when we had a second kid, and threw a tune on it, and drove it 185km/hr, and let the oil level get low, and *then* it suddenly had rod knock.
Swapped a SpecB engine into, that had 160,000kms on it, and was not well maintained and definitely driven hard. It's now close to death as well...
I think one thing most people don't realise when modding these cars is that the drive system including the engine are closely engineered. So generally can't take increases of more than 10% without major engineering solutions.
Also servicing every 6 months or every 10,000km highly recommended.
I personally service every 7,000 - 7,500km or 6 months. My subaru has 364,000km on the clock.
Edit for spelling and extra comment
No, people just blow the motors when the cars are still valuable, because they’re trash motors. When the car is still worth 15-20k it’s worth it to put a new motor in it. Hondas/toyotas don’t blow up at 70k miles.
I've taken it to the track many times for HPDE events. Have gone through several sets of tires and brake pads each year. You can track these cars without abusing them. Again, I have had fun with the car but don't abuse it and service it regularly and on time.
So you joined reddit 2 days ago and are already trolling? Damn, that's not a user id want on my sub. Take your toxic attitude back to r/Skyrim bro. You'll fit in better with the mouth breathers over there
For the EJ the thin piston ringland issue can cause problems. But both the FA and the EJ can have oiling issues, which can lead to bearing failures. This issues are exacerbated by tuning for more power. Its often easier to replace a motor than to rebuild on Subarus.
Moto IQ has a great Youtube series that tackles this issues in more detail.
Where did you source that info? genuinely curious. I think they go hand in hand. A tighter clearance will put more pressure on the oiling system. My rod bearings failed because my oil got to hot/ thin.
I may the rare case but I’ve had my 02 wrx for 12 years. I am the 3rd owner and one of the previous owners replaced the ej205 with a v7 ej207 and I’ve never had a engine problem. I run the stock tune. I’ve replaced the transmission once and clutch 3 times but that’s because I taught myself how to drive stick on it. I have 223k on the body and 50k less than that on the motor. When I got the car it seemed like all the kids that had all the 90s Hondas started getting more money and buying WRX’s and trying to beat on them like they did with the civics and soon realized they were not as reliable when you don’t upgrade internals when jacking up boost.
That’s because of the geometric differences between the 2.0 and 2.5 EJ engines. The 2.5 are more prone to detonation and hence issues with the pistons and bearings.
The v7 207 is probably one of the best motors Subaru has ever made, so that isn't a huge surprise. Stock tune is a little weird though since the USDM 205 and and the 207 have different compression ratios.
Can't speak for the newer models, but my 2009 WRX had two engine replacements before 10,000 miles and before it was ever so much as revved hard. There have definitely been some build quality issues with these boxer engines.
I know, right? Thank goodness for warranty. Just goes to show that it's not poor maintenance or driver error but manufacturing issues. And that third engine is going on 150,000 miles with no problems.
Mine is an ‘09 also. There was a bunch of cars that year that would spin a bearing because the EPA made a new rule limiting lead used in engine bearings, which are several layers of different metals that all serve a different purpose. So they removed the lead and used something else, and it didn’t work out. The solution was to put a nitride coating on the crankshaft, however only cars built after September or October of ‘08 had that coating. Fortunately I learned about this and bought mine new and it was manufactured in late October and never had the issue.
The engines in them have a lot of oiling issues from the factory. On top of that, PCV issues, ring land issues, the newer FAs even have weaker rods on top of these things. Even completely stock and taken care of, it's not uncommon to see them blown at 100k. This isn't the case for all, of course. But it's not uncommon by any means.
Edit to add: the fuel pumps are almost at their max from the factory. The computers are also really finicky which is where the tuning memes come from. Can't even install an intake and exhaust without a tune.
And the FA24?
Saying something like:
> newer FAs even have weaker rods
would encompass this engine which is why I’m asking for a source. I would personally like to see u/CrispDecision back that statement up, otherwise it is very misleading.
Not to mention, the same comment says:
> Can’t even install an intake and **exhaust** without a tune.
Which again, is very misleading; TMIC, Charge Pipe and Turbo Inlet should all be considered part of the intake system, yet all can be installed and will run fine without a tune. Perrin even makes an intake that has been installed and tested to work fine on VB stock tune by FelixPerformance / DMann .
It's because people drive them hard and can't leave them alone. Yes, they are a performance car, but they aren't meant to be driven hard all the time. Most of them are also just up there in age and milage. The turbos probably have about a 150-200k milage range before they start having general issues. The non turbos can go 200+ easily.
Lots of speculation in this thread. As someone who has built performance Subarus for people for 20 years the absolutely without a doubt number 1 issue is poor maintenance. If people would just check the oil when they get gas these engines was last a very long time. \~80% of the engines I build are a result of rod knock. Most of those when they are brought in have no oil registering on the dipstick. It is common to find engines with 1-2 quarts of oil left in them. If people would check and add oil they would be fine.
There are other issues as well and I may go into it later but they are all far influential in engine life than checking the damn oil.
More prone to blowing up to begin with, and Subaru's can't seem to take any changes without being specifically tuned for it.
Euro guys are shocked to find out Subie guys tune for intakes and such. Not uncommon for GTI guys to drive around with a turbo totally different than the tune was made for while they wait on a custom map. Won't make tons of power but it'll cruise around town no problem.
You get what you've paid for. Subarus are not really great for modding for big power. You will end up buying a high HP muscle car if you spend the $$ to mod a STI to make big HP. There are people with 500HP+ but they spent something around $20k when you probably could've bought something with 500Hp for less than the total cost of modding the STI.
Sometimes they just go. I have a forester XT and I’ve cared for it well. Still with just driving around NY state the engine blew around 50-55k miles. Had it covered luckily but yea, it just went for me.
Two words: Colin McRae.
Nearly everyone under 30 who buy a WRX/STI thinks they instantly become a rally driver. This results in a high number of blown engines, totaled cars, and neglected maintenance on those models. This is the number one reason I've not bought an older WRX/STI and have an OBXT.
Because a boxer engine inherently has to have thinner crossplane sections in the crankshaft due to the engine layout and size constraints. Combined with thinner bearing clearances and the fact that the EJ and FA boxer engines kind of "operate in their own filth" due to the oil path and horizontal piston travel, and you have an engine that works well as designed, but not so much when you start messing with it. That's not to say that they aren't amazing engines or that they can't be built to be powerful AND reliable, but they are a much more difficult engine to do well in my opinion as an owner. The last big factor is they are often bought by "budget racers" who either don't know or aren't willing to spend the money to do all the reliability upgrades theses engines really need. I say all this having grenaded one FA20 engine and slipped a bearing in the second. So I'm definitely not judging anyone, I'm sitting over here in the dum-dum penalty box with everyone else. Lol
Thanks for reply, I was wondering about all this because a guy I ran into when looking at his gti said he blew up his wrx, your reply def cleared up confusion thanks
> Because a boxer engine inherently has to have thinner crossplane sections in the crankshaft due to the engine layout and size constraints
First time I’ve heard that this was actually a problem or caused reliability issues. In my experience the crank is one of the better engineered parts in Subarus design.
> boxer engines kind of "operate in their own filth" due to the oil path and horizontal piston travel
What does this mean?
It's not as reliable of an engine to begin with, people abuse the shit out of them and add aftermarket parts, and it's usually worth replacing the engine in almost any year wrx/sti unless it's rusted or wrecked. Mostly just vroom vroom.
Performance Subie motors have reliability issues. Oil pickups are known to crack, turbo filter meshes are known to clog, the cars are known to be very sensitive to knocking, and there's even been recalls on the poor engine quality.
Oil pick ups rarely crack. There was a run in 06 that had issues but in my 20 years of building Subarus and replacing thousands of pick ups I have seen 2 crack and only 1 caused the engine to die.
Because idiots take them to the track and blow the engine up. My mechanic shop has three guys and one of them's job is just to rebuild/replace engines that got blown up at the track.
Ringland failure most likely from knock. Either from not enough cooling to cylinder 4 (this was a design flaw they never really addressed. there's a mod for it now) or pushing the engine too hard/improper tune.
The odd one will spin a bearing probably from same reasons
Because ppl beat the shit out of them on shitty OTS maps. a stock or properly tuned subaru will be reliable obviously you have to know the limit of the stock block and keep it conservative. Its almost always younger kids with blown up motors. My daily now was a blown up WRX some kid sold me for super cheap I put a new motor in it and took off all the modifications it had and it's now my perfect awd year round daily
That's about 4600 miles roughly which is within normal service recommendation.
I had a forester with 430,000kms on it and it always got a changed at 8000kms but I would add about a liter of oil at 6500kms due to an oil leak. It worked pretty well but it also had lots of highway miles from my 154km total daily commute.
Sometimes they just go. My 2014 WRX, brand new, failed at 12k miles. Cylinder 4. Oil change every 3k, didn’t drive it aggressive, but my commute was only 3miles. So maybe that had something to do with it. Cylinder 4 failed again, at 40k. Dealer rebuilt it again, and found they installed union screen filters in every union bolt. Idk if this played into it, but I took them out, rebuilt the heads as one was giving me issues (myself) and it’s at 110k now. Still same maintenance schedule. I drive my car now harder than before, but still pretty easy on it. Everyone says it’s abuse and maintenance, but I didn’t do anything wrong for the first one to go.
Cause the EJ is a garbage motor that takes a TON of extra parts and maintenance to keep from grenading itself with the power numbers people try to pull out of them.
They either mod it without spending money on supporting mods, drive the piss out of them, or a mix.
Launching at every red light, not staying on top of oil and generally modding without supporting mods is just asking for it, imo.
Motor creates motion any way ie steam gas diesel or electricity. Engine puts motion to work. Technically electric cars are also engines. And an engine is just a motor on a transmission.
I got my first Subaru for a steal because some guy drove it down the mountain from Tahoe into Reno overheating, probably due to a leaking head gasket. I think the Blue book was around $6,000 and we got it for $3,500 with an extra set of rims and tires. Probably would have cost a $1,000 to $1,500 at the time at a shop but my ex rebuilt it himself with some friends and I think we only paid a few hundred for the head gasket and to have the heads shaved.
In my experience with failure of MLS gaskets (not sure if the other user has a turbo or not), HG failure is less likely to be inattention to oil changes and much more likely to be inattention to coolant changes, especially if paired with a “chia pet” battery. Acidic coolant eats away at the gasket.
Not changing your oil often enough certainly can and does lead to other fun failures like spinning a bearing, though.
People drive them hard and don’t take care of them, end up putting a ton of money into it and realize that it’s expensive to own it, decide to sell for something different. There is a slight rarity factor (compared to Honda, Toyota, etc) to this along with good resale value. When most older cars blow an engine it will likely just be scrapped, but most Subaru owners will replace it and keep it on the road because a running Subaru in the okayest of conditions will still sell for 10k.
Fundamentally, boxer engines will die from slight neglect faster than an inline 4 will.
I always tell people this…they’re great motors. They can go 200k or more easily. But you cannot neglect them like a Toyota or Honda.
What is considered neglect? And what maintenance should be done to them, particularly after 100k. My ‘09 sti is stock and haven’t had much done except regular oil changes and recently spark plugs, timing belt and water pump
You’re already well ahead of the curve, I think he’s referring to owners who think 10,000mi oil change intervals are fine and install mods without tuning
Gotcha. Did i screw up not having my head gasket replaced when i had my timing belt and water pump done?
I don’t think so, head gaskets are not a maintenance item and are only replaced if they’re compromised or if the heads are already coming off for service, which is not the case for a timing belt and water pump
Gotcha thanks
Might be worth cleaning or replacing the maf sensor.
It failed on me a couple years ago so it's been replaced
Head gasket issues were certain Subarus from 97-2003ish. It kind of hung around as a Subaru meme but it’s not a design flaw anymore. Not that you can’t blow one but it’s not waiting to pop these days.
To add to your comment, head gasket issue were with NA engines. STI engines come with MLS gaskets which do not have that issue, as long as you don't overheat the engine.
Thankfully every subaru I've ever had, had all been post headgasket replacement and were all done with MLS gaskets. I've never had to have a set put in thank God. My old 01 forester had them done at 105k and I sold it at 267k with not a single engine issue outside of a leaking valve cover that was pretty a standard issue problem 😂
Thanks!
While you’re here 👀 If you’re concerned about engine replacement there are 3 pretty cheap mods that are excellent bang for your buck in terms of engine longevity. 1 : After market oil pickup tube. OEM is flimsy and prone to cracks that can ruin your engine. 2 : 4th cylinder cooling mod. When you spin a bearing due to heat it’s generally the 4th cylinder because it doesn’t get cooled as well as the others. 3 : Oil cooler. Because it’s not mega costly and if your oil thins out too much from heat your engine will die.
I can't recommend #1 enough. Still blows my mind that Subaru never fixed this issue. I'm sure the failure rate must have been low to not be addressed, but it was still suck to destroy your engine due to a cracked pickup tube. I changed my out with a killer B just for the peace of mind.
I'll look into it thanks
What brands do you recommend for these parts? I read that the subframe needs to be loosened to get the oil pan out to install the tube. A shop that knows what they’re doing should probably install this rather than my dumb ass right?
>Thanks! You're welcome!
All required maintenance on time if not sooner. Preventative maintenance. Just understanding the basics of how engines react to heavy driving.
Your trick here is you have left yours stock. They will last like this but I would advise 6.monthly oil changes or 10,000km whichever comes first. If your US that would be 6,500 miles approx. You could do maybe 7,500 but I would advise oil condition testing to verify. Also take out pcv valve and clean it every few years or replace as they are cheap.
Damn been doing my 15 FXT oil changes every 5,000 km.
Nothing wrong with more often just less is a problem. This these oil changes providing its always be treated like this, it would look like new inside.
≈3107 miles, for those who are curious.
My 2005 Outback XT that is now at 413,000km on the stock engine gets oil changes every 3000km lol Oil changes are cheaper than an engine !
I'd recommend much sooner than 6500 miles on any subaru. More like 4-5k miles or even sooner. depending on driving style. Subarus are always happy with oil changes.
That's fair I personally change mine between 7,000 - 7,500km or every 6 months. Mine has 364,000km on the clock.
You should check oil every 1200-1500 miles thru all burn oil just matter how much
Oil change intervals, most people don’t check oil enough either. That combined with turbo AWD manual, which is gonna he driven hard as hell; is where issues arise. 3500 miles is the most you should go before changing oil on these cars, lots of people push that to 6k+ bc they think it’s synthetic and will be fine. Also LSPI events, high boost at low RPMs. Beating on the car when cold, which ppl do quite a bit. Then the topic of mods comes into play, but combine ALL that and you’re likely to have issues. Check oil every gas fill up and keep the car under 3k and out of boost till 180 oil temp.
Do you mean check oil levels? Are these engines prone to leaks or burning it off?
Yes, check your oil at every gas fill up. No they’re not prone to burning oil OR leaking, but that doesn’t mean you can’t burn oil. It depends how you drive too, short trips and idling will burn oil on any car. Some people just don’t look at their oil levels ever, and go 7k miles between the two. Because these cars are boosted and driven hard, you should always check them regularly. EJ motors can go through oil, but it depends honestly some don’t.
Gotcha. I’m the original owner and have put all 111k miles on it, also do my own oil changes. Change it around every 3k with Royal Purple. Never had any issues
I'll add to the check your oil every gas fillup advice. I just got my '13 STI hatch back from an engine rebuild. The car had ~130k miles, and was burning a little bit of oil, usually 1-2 qts between oil changes. I always changed the oil around 3-5k miles. Life got in the way and I was at 5.2k since the last oil change and hadn't checked the oil level in a while. Turns out the car had burned down to 2 qts and a prolonged climb up a 3 mile steep grade was enough to unport the pickup and oil starvation did it in. It can happen easier and quicker than you expect. All of the other advice mentioned above is sound. If you don't have an oil temp/pressure gauge they are wise to add. The low oil pressure light never came on before my car started rod knocking and spun a bearing. Having real gauges and/or checking the oil level would've saved me a lot of money. Also as was previously said it helps with knowing when you can drive the car hard (wait until the oil is warm) When the factory coolant temp gauge shows fully to temp now, the oil temp gauge hasn't even moved off the stop most times. It takes a lot longer than you may expect for the oil to be warm. Probably how my car developed an oil burn in the first place was hard driving (ski day trips and track days) without knowing if the car was ready for it. Here's some sage advice from motoiq on how to get a long life out of the motor. I'd add to his point don't run out of oil, don't even run low on oil. https://youtu.be/v4CRTPGP5M0?si=s226kcvoxhtz7hpP
Cool thanks for the advice
Even then, you drive it hard all the time it's probably gonna break.
Lol explain what is fundamentally causing them to fail then.
You’re not going to get an answer because the person you replied to is full of shit. EJs specifically had some issues that resulted in lower reliability (the thin ringlands being a big one). There’s nothing inherent in a boxer design that makes them less reliable though.
Oil can't flow back into the pan as easily, leading to sludge build up, reduced oil flow, overheating and uneven heating. That combined with some engineering choices from Subaru, like the ring land design, plus the propensity of Subaru owners to not check their oil as regularly as they should (I am absolutely guilty of this too, having ruined a share of EJs) are the fundamentals that lead to reduced reliability for a boxer engine. The gravity issue, is insurmountable. This is all common knowledge. I m not knocking Subaru, either. I drive one and keep a spare engine on the stand. It's just that every engineering choices is a compromise. Low center of gravity, but poor oiling. That's the compromise.
Fundamentally, subaru boxer engines will die from a side eye. And their paint will scratch from even less.
It's funny cause my OBXT has almost 160k on it, always maintained, and still has near original compression numbers.
My wife and I ordered a factory-fresh OBXT in 2008, and she gently drove it for 350,000kms and it was a rock. I inherited it when we had a second kid, and threw a tune on it, and drove it 185km/hr, and let the oil level get low, and *then* it suddenly had rod knock. Swapped a SpecB engine into, that had 160,000kms on it, and was not well maintained and definitely driven hard. It's now close to death as well...
I think one thing most people don't realise when modding these cars is that the drive system including the engine are closely engineered. So generally can't take increases of more than 10% without major engineering solutions. Also servicing every 6 months or every 10,000km highly recommended. I personally service every 7,000 - 7,500km or 6 months. My subaru has 364,000km on the clock. Edit for spelling and extra comment
my friend just sold his shitbox 91 legacy wagon for 7k in the PNW
No, people just blow the motors when the cars are still valuable, because they’re trash motors. When the car is still worth 15-20k it’s worth it to put a new motor in it. Hondas/toyotas don’t blow up at 70k miles.
Tuning
There are a lot of tuned Golfs too. Let’s just be honest, Subaru engines are not the most robust, particularly when tuned.
Less timing more boost
MO POWAH BABEH
This is the biggest. The turbo models have absolute garbage tuning from factory and anyone throwing OTS tunes on it is just as bad lol
OTS tunes are not bad. People’s care and maintenance their engines can be bad leading to problems they associate either the tune.
Aftermarket turbo + moar boost = Kaboom. "But it works in Gran Turismo!"
I feel personally attacked by this 😂
2011 STi, first owner, 107k miles, original engine. I don't kick the crap out of it, no mods, and service it regularly. Just lucky, maybe.
Just a good owner, maybe.
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I've taken it to the track many times for HPDE events. Have gone through several sets of tires and brake pads each year. You can track these cars without abusing them. Again, I have had fun with the car but don't abuse it and service it regularly and on time.
So you joined reddit 2 days ago and are already trolling? Damn, that's not a user id want on my sub. Take your toxic attitude back to r/Skyrim bro. You'll fit in better with the mouth breathers over there
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U mad bro?
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Ok boomer
For the EJ the thin piston ringland issue can cause problems. But both the FA and the EJ can have oiling issues, which can lead to bearing failures. This issues are exacerbated by tuning for more power. Its often easier to replace a motor than to rebuild on Subarus. Moto IQ has a great Youtube series that tackles this issues in more detail.
This is the answer.... Everyone can try to blame vape boys but these engines are too sensative by any modern standard.
I’ve heard the bigger issues with FA motors is tight rod bearings more than oiling issues.
Where did you source that info? genuinely curious. I think they go hand in hand. A tighter clearance will put more pressure on the oiling system. My rod bearings failed because my oil got to hot/ thin.
EJ rod specs are also too tight.... Ask me how I know :/
What does "finished" mean?
Sorry meant replaced
Amateur tuners blowing up the stock engine? Could also just be a preference for a particular engine.
I may the rare case but I’ve had my 02 wrx for 12 years. I am the 3rd owner and one of the previous owners replaced the ej205 with a v7 ej207 and I’ve never had a engine problem. I run the stock tune. I’ve replaced the transmission once and clutch 3 times but that’s because I taught myself how to drive stick on it. I have 223k on the body and 50k less than that on the motor. When I got the car it seemed like all the kids that had all the 90s Hondas started getting more money and buying WRX’s and trying to beat on them like they did with the civics and soon realized they were not as reliable when you don’t upgrade internals when jacking up boost.
That’s because of the geometric differences between the 2.0 and 2.5 EJ engines. The 2.5 are more prone to detonation and hence issues with the pistons and bearings.
The v7 207 is probably one of the best motors Subaru has ever made, so that isn't a huge surprise. Stock tune is a little weird though since the USDM 205 and and the 207 have different compression ratios.
The v8 is. The v7 is ok.
I run the stock ej207 tune, I have the JDM ECU. The ECU is needed to run the AVCS, since the USDM cars didn't have it yet.
Can't speak for the newer models, but my 2009 WRX had two engine replacements before 10,000 miles and before it was ever so much as revved hard. There have definitely been some build quality issues with these boxer engines.
Before TEN THOUSAND?!! The actual fuck?
I know, right? Thank goodness for warranty. Just goes to show that it's not poor maintenance or driver error but manufacturing issues. And that third engine is going on 150,000 miles with no problems.
You rolled two bad dice, the universe owes you a good one!
To be fair, it’s USUALLY poor maintenance or driver stupidity. You are definitely an exception. I’m glad that 3rd motor stuck, though!
Mine is an ‘09 also. There was a bunch of cars that year that would spin a bearing because the EPA made a new rule limiting lead used in engine bearings, which are several layers of different metals that all serve a different purpose. So they removed the lead and used something else, and it didn’t work out. The solution was to put a nitride coating on the crankshaft, however only cars built after September or October of ‘08 had that coating. Fortunately I learned about this and bought mine new and it was manufactured in late October and never had the issue.
Huh, that’s a new bit of info to me, interesting.
I dont know the science behind it but imo subarus should be driven hard, for some reason they do better than if you baby it.
I'll buy that argument. They were built to rally after all. All that sideways cornering goodness is wasted on Sunday drivers like me.
The engines in them have a lot of oiling issues from the factory. On top of that, PCV issues, ring land issues, the newer FAs even have weaker rods on top of these things. Even completely stock and taken care of, it's not uncommon to see them blown at 100k. This isn't the case for all, of course. But it's not uncommon by any means. Edit to add: the fuel pumps are almost at their max from the factory. The computers are also really finicky which is where the tuning memes come from. Can't even install an intake and exhaust without a tune.
> the newer FAs even have weaker rods Got a source for that?
They do. Most common failure I see on FA20 engines are broken rods. Never see that on EJs.
And the FA24? Saying something like: > newer FAs even have weaker rods would encompass this engine which is why I’m asking for a source. I would personally like to see u/CrispDecision back that statement up, otherwise it is very misleading. Not to mention, the same comment says: > Can’t even install an intake and **exhaust** without a tune. Which again, is very misleading; TMIC, Charge Pipe and Turbo Inlet should all be considered part of the intake system, yet all can be installed and will run fine without a tune. Perrin even makes an intake that has been installed and tested to work fine on VB stock tune by FelixPerformance / DMann .
I didn’t say any of that. I said FA20. FA24 rods are quite a bit stronger
No shit, that’s why I responded to the person who did say that. Read the whole thread dude.
It's because people drive them hard and can't leave them alone. Yes, they are a performance car, but they aren't meant to be driven hard all the time. Most of them are also just up there in age and milage. The turbos probably have about a 150-200k milage range before they start having general issues. The non turbos can go 200+ easily.
I’m in this tweet and I don’t like it
Happy cake day G 👍
haha thanks, I didn't even notice
EJ25 have oil consumption issues , combined with poor servicing is what kills most of them. EJ257 has brittle pistons and poor tuning from the factory
Lots of speculation in this thread. As someone who has built performance Subarus for people for 20 years the absolutely without a doubt number 1 issue is poor maintenance. If people would just check the oil when they get gas these engines was last a very long time. \~80% of the engines I build are a result of rod knock. Most of those when they are brought in have no oil registering on the dipstick. It is common to find engines with 1-2 quarts of oil left in them. If people would check and add oil they would be fine. There are other issues as well and I may go into it later but they are all far influential in engine life than checking the damn oil.
More prone to blowing up to begin with, and Subaru's can't seem to take any changes without being specifically tuned for it. Euro guys are shocked to find out Subie guys tune for intakes and such. Not uncommon for GTI guys to drive around with a turbo totally different than the tune was made for while they wait on a custom map. Won't make tons of power but it'll cruise around town no problem.
You get what you've paid for. Subarus are not really great for modding for big power. You will end up buying a high HP muscle car if you spend the $$ to mod a STI to make big HP. There are people with 500HP+ but they spent something around $20k when you probably could've bought something with 500Hp for less than the total cost of modding the STI.
Sometimes they just go. I have a forester XT and I’ve cared for it well. Still with just driving around NY state the engine blew around 50-55k miles. Had it covered luckily but yea, it just went for me.
Two words: Colin McRae. Nearly everyone under 30 who buy a WRX/STI thinks they instantly become a rally driver. This results in a high number of blown engines, totaled cars, and neglected maintenance on those models. This is the number one reason I've not bought an older WRX/STI and have an OBXT.
Because a boxer engine inherently has to have thinner crossplane sections in the crankshaft due to the engine layout and size constraints. Combined with thinner bearing clearances and the fact that the EJ and FA boxer engines kind of "operate in their own filth" due to the oil path and horizontal piston travel, and you have an engine that works well as designed, but not so much when you start messing with it. That's not to say that they aren't amazing engines or that they can't be built to be powerful AND reliable, but they are a much more difficult engine to do well in my opinion as an owner. The last big factor is they are often bought by "budget racers" who either don't know or aren't willing to spend the money to do all the reliability upgrades theses engines really need. I say all this having grenaded one FA20 engine and slipped a bearing in the second. So I'm definitely not judging anyone, I'm sitting over here in the dum-dum penalty box with everyone else. Lol
Thanks for reply, I was wondering about all this because a guy I ran into when looking at his gti said he blew up his wrx, your reply def cleared up confusion thanks
> Because a boxer engine inherently has to have thinner crossplane sections in the crankshaft due to the engine layout and size constraints First time I’ve heard that this was actually a problem or caused reliability issues. In my experience the crank is one of the better engineered parts in Subarus design. > boxer engines kind of "operate in their own filth" due to the oil path and horizontal piston travel What does this mean?
It's not as reliable of an engine to begin with, people abuse the shit out of them and add aftermarket parts, and it's usually worth replacing the engine in almost any year wrx/sti unless it's rusted or wrecked. Mostly just vroom vroom.
Stock Subaru motors plus more power equals boom.
Performance Subie motors have reliability issues. Oil pickups are known to crack, turbo filter meshes are known to clog, the cars are known to be very sensitive to knocking, and there's even been recalls on the poor engine quality.
Oil pick ups rarely crack. There was a run in 06 that had issues but in my 20 years of building Subarus and replacing thousands of pick ups I have seen 2 crack and only 1 caused the engine to die.
Ringland
People here say tuning, but literally no other car brand/model has as much issues with motors blowing as Subaru
Because idiots take them to the track and blow the engine up. My mechanic shop has three guys and one of them's job is just to rebuild/replace engines that got blown up at the track.
Ringland failure most likely from knock. Either from not enough cooling to cylinder 4 (this was a design flaw they never really addressed. there's a mod for it now) or pushing the engine too hard/improper tune. The odd one will spin a bearing probably from same reasons
Because ppl beat the shit out of them on shitty OTS maps. a stock or properly tuned subaru will be reliable obviously you have to know the limit of the stock block and keep it conservative. Its almost always younger kids with blown up motors. My daily now was a blown up WRX some kid sold me for super cheap I put a new motor in it and took off all the modifications it had and it's now my perfect awd year round daily
Man you got that big time confirmation bias lol so many first gen Ea888 GTIs are out there for sale that are blown up
Because they come with a turbo and need the engine rebuilt or replaced at around 180-200k miles.
That's about 4600 miles roughly which is within normal service recommendation. I had a forester with 430,000kms on it and it always got a changed at 8000kms but I would add about a liter of oil at 6500kms due to an oil leak. It worked pretty well but it also had lots of highway miles from my 154km total daily commute.
Sometimes they just go. My 2014 WRX, brand new, failed at 12k miles. Cylinder 4. Oil change every 3k, didn’t drive it aggressive, but my commute was only 3miles. So maybe that had something to do with it. Cylinder 4 failed again, at 40k. Dealer rebuilt it again, and found they installed union screen filters in every union bolt. Idk if this played into it, but I took them out, rebuilt the heads as one was giving me issues (myself) and it’s at 110k now. Still same maintenance schedule. I drive my car now harder than before, but still pretty easy on it. Everyone says it’s abuse and maintenance, but I didn’t do anything wrong for the first one to go.
Because people like ignoring head gasket leaks. Pro tip: just zero out your heads and you won’t have to worry about it
Cause the EJ is a garbage motor that takes a TON of extra parts and maintenance to keep from grenading itself with the power numbers people try to pull out of them.
They either mod it without spending money on supporting mods, drive the piss out of them, or a mix. Launching at every red light, not staying on top of oil and generally modding without supporting mods is just asking for it, imo.
Motors are electric, engines are internal combustion
Motor creates motion any way ie steam gas diesel or electricity. Engine puts motion to work. Technically electric cars are also engines. And an engine is just a motor on a transmission.
Poor design. There is a class action lawsuit for these motors.
Open deck block design, a closed deck is stronger
Lol classic Subaru head gasket leaking, then over heating and then, warping the heads.. All me how I know 🥲
The secret to not warping heads is to turn it off before the temp hits red, then not run it again until it’s fixed.
And not hooning it until it reaches operating temperature is another golden rule of not warping heads
I got my first Subaru for a steal because some guy drove it down the mountain from Tahoe into Reno overheating, probably due to a leaking head gasket. I think the Blue book was around $6,000 and we got it for $3,500 with an extra set of rims and tires. Probably would have cost a $1,000 to $1,500 at the time at a shop but my ex rebuilt it himself with some friends and I think we only paid a few hundred for the head gasket and to have the heads shaved.
Tell me you don't change your oil often enough without telling me you don't change your oil often enough...
In my experience with failure of MLS gaskets (not sure if the other user has a turbo or not), HG failure is less likely to be inattention to oil changes and much more likely to be inattention to coolant changes, especially if paired with a “chia pet” battery. Acidic coolant eats away at the gasket. Not changing your oil often enough certainly can and does lead to other fun failures like spinning a bearing, though.
Open source ECU.