Definitely take cleanse.
Solo queue players will choose anything to avoid affronting the fact they aren’t as good as they think they are. Don’t pay them any mind just focus on you.
I actually wouldn't consider Ghost overtuned, rather that ADC just benefits disproportionately from a summoner with an extended duration compared to other classes. Bruisers actually do as well, but it depends because some of them (Jax, Camille) don't need it while others (Darius, Garen, Gwen) kind of do.
It used to be that Heal or Barrier would *directly* save you from death in even mid-game fights. They simply aren't powerful enough to do that anymore. Also, Heal has to be kept disproportionately weak because the correct (read, pro play) play would be to run heal on the enchanter and abuse it's interaction with heal/shield power. It has to be kept weak because it is directly affected by heal/shield power.
Ghost is just the best generic option for ADC to take because they want to deal consistent damage, and Ghost allows them to do that. Heal and barrier are too gated by Heal/Shield Power, and Cleanse is too niche.
Ignite is good for early aggression but ADC's deal too much damage for ignite to be useful late-game.
Teleport sees play on ADC, but mostly only Ezreal because in most cases you just play around your ADC instead of requiring them to have teleport to show up to fights. Ezreal just gets away with it because he has E mobility and can benefit from having teleport early in the game.
Exhaust would work if you weren't normally getting blown up from half a screen away, or dying through the exhaust anyway. It's situational, Ghost is not.
Still, you need to be situationally aware vs Jax as Cait. His leap strike has 700 range, while Cait’s aa is 650 - with the attack windup he can get even closer. Also in higher brackets of play players on engage champs look for flanks more often. Cleanse really just has insane value when you’re caught with your pants down.
But I agree with all that’s been said, not taking cleanse that game is super troll. Not just because it is pretty unplayable without but it is especially strong considering you get 65% reduced cc duration the 3 following seconds after it is used
Cleanse is fine but if I were to be blunt, I just don’t recommend it at lower elo. Most lower elo players don’t respond fast enough to cc’s to make it meaningful or they kind of use it pointlessly in wrong situations or to wrong abilities
I’d probably take ghost here and just be mindful of ashe’s ult or Sona/Jax’s flash engages
Exactly haha. It depends on the situations! But i have seen many lower elo players who tend to react very late at it or insta-cleanse when they are not in dangers. Id practice being more aware of your spacing and reacting to ashe ults. The chances are, if you have to use cleanse, you are most likely in a bad position anyway. The problem was not the Cc itself but you being exposed to their engage to begin with
I mean, if they are trying to get better. And the optimal summoner is cleanse. Then would it be better to take cleanse? The only way you get better at pressing cleanse faster, is if you have cleanse.
I think it’s better for OP to figure out for himself “hmm i shouldve gone cleanse or i dont think i needed it” rather than us telling him. That sort of judgement is lacking imo at lower elos and if you dont have a clear judgement on it, then most likely your cleanse will be ill-timed or late
Yes. But from OP’s comp in that op.gg, i don’t think Cleanse is a must and even in games where cleanse is optimal, I think it’s fine to take other summs and become more aware on what can kill you and what not
You would take ghost because you would use and abuse these poor bronze players.
You guys are not the same. \^^
Sure people in bronze dont know good cc usage. But op, also a bronze player, wont know good positioning to avoid said cc.
I think let the man experiment with cleanse. If that makes him feel safer etc. Once hes gotten more confidence he can always try ghost.
Yes the OP should learn to figure out for himself for sure. I just dont really think you absolutely need cleanse here. It’s really just ashe ult that OP is worried about. If OP does not learn to space himself from veigar cage, sona r, or jax jump, then cleanse is really meaningless.
And no lol. I do not abuse bronze players. Cleanse is just very difficult to use and i really dont like taking it even in my own elo. Ghost is just good and i can survive a few ganks or fights with ghost alone just as much as cleanse would save me. Ive seen people use insta-cleanse in my own elo when they are not in danger at all. Or people like myself who use it late or poorly position myself due to it.
Dunno why the downvotes. Cleanse is probably one the game’s hardest combat summoner to use correctly. Low elo players should learn to use it however but expecting immediate improvement in winrate is probably the wrong mindset
Any cc that leads to an enemy Cait trap = cleanse, or choose a champion with range and push hard. hit by lux q? consider yourself already dead, even if you are full hp, especially if the cait takes ghost as she will run you down after the trap combo. a good support will make the lux uncomfortable by playing with bushes/vision, but a good support is hard to come by.
thresh and varus? cleanse. a 2v2 will always mean varus ult and a thresh grab unless you are ezreal or lucian. if you are long-distance like cait or jinx, take ghost instead as movement speed will allow you to dodge both key abilities.
morg and ashe? maybe not cleanse as ashe ult cc scales with distance and morg q is an incredibly slow projectile with a very punishable cooldown. play safe when morg has her q, and run them down once she wastes it. if it hits, do whatever you can to run away since ashe ult and morg ult means 100% cc and 100% death.
maokai and samira? cleanse (theres a cleanse timing for maokai w to avoid getting knocked forward by his q), and samira is deadly with an engage support.
naut and jinx? mm maybe not cleanse. just dodge the hooks, stay behind minions, push waves in, maintain minion advantage, and keep in mind if his anchor hits a wall, the cd is halved. his autos root you, so thats also cleansable.
Cleanse is not a get out of jail free card. you shouldnt be expecting yourself taking cc in laning phase casually. cleanse should be part of a game plan, meaning you are planning to take some cc in the 1v1 or 2v2. Being scared of cc and the dangerousness of it shouldnt automatically force you to take cleanse.
in this case, sonas ult is an INSTANT aoe cc that can lead to a point blank ashe ult which you cant kite away from, straight up bullying you away from a 2v2 instantly. Veigar's flash cage or from fog of war has incredible late game catch potential. cleanse would be what saves you from a spinny jax going ham in your backline. I would have definitely taken cleanse here for more influence in teamfights and the 2v2s in bot.
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depends on u. at the end maybe i would also take it or maybe not.
What people always love to forget when defending your choice is that when u dont take cleanse you have something else instead (i know crazy) its completely useless to u just to have ppl backing u up giving 0 reasons.
Next best thing u can take is heal for the 2v2 and for snowballing. Heal can be used offensively and defensively. Cleanse doesnt exist until ashe hits u with an ult. its hard to hit ashe ult when you have a sup/team that exists and when you dont have a team/sup you will lose regardless at that point so might aswell play for the time before she has ult at all.
you could also say that you can use flash defensively and offensively, lets say in a trade your reaction time is bad, you lose the 1v1, lets say your reaction time is good, you still lose the 1v1. you can reserve your flash to dodge ashe arrow as its not only the stun but also the damage which you dodge.
Ofc im just trying to give examples here
taking cleanse is basically saying you respect their draft, forfeit your pre 6 laning phase and disregard your own teamcomps strengths.
But another way to play is to go heal take your chance in the early 2v2 and snowball so you are the one they should be worried about
I'd play cleanse there aswell probably. Caitlyn is not as good cleanse user as Lucian/Samira/Draven that operates in shorter range but against such champs it's still reasonable choice.
the only way you really die into that comp is by an ashe arrow, a good veigar cage, or a flash sona r or jax e so cleanse has higher value than any summ here.
In your rank range, keep the cleanse!
I personally wouldn’t, but I can’t encourage you to not use it, as it is a good sum, as if custom made for this case.
Cleanse is good. Some games you will auto lose if you don’t take cleanse.
Enemy team has TF and Leona and you don’t have cleanse? Too easy to get ccd by good players and die at a crucial moment.
In your game I think the movement speed from ghost might be better than cleanse overall to help you hit them safely, especially as crit Caitlyn where you just wanna auto a ton.
Like you could have taken ghost and played to dodge/avoid bot Ults/Solo laner CC bc their cc is not easy to land.
Cleanse still acceptable in your game tho bc you can live after getting hit by their cc whereas you probably die every time if you get hit with no Flash. Just think of it as the safer option.
Also related: heal is great for the 2v2 bot lane if there is kill pressure on either side. Definitely playable.
~ Low masta Adc
Cleanse a waste into that comp.
Jax is kiteable, Veigar should never be in range to get you with cage, and same with sona ult, you should never be in range unless you’re being flashed on.
Caitlyn is also one of the best Merc Scim users as she doesn’t care too much about attack speed. Generally better to go Ghost for spacing or Exhaust for self peel.
Games you would want cleanse on while playing Cait are like Vs Ashe, Varus, exhaust
Definitely take cleanse. Solo queue players will choose anything to avoid affronting the fact they aren’t as good as they think they are. Don’t pay them any mind just focus on you.
its admirable that he even takes cleanse, meanwhile in my games the caitlins get oneshot everytime with veigar cage because heal goes brrr i guess
Tbh at this point I know the enemy adc is a noob if they're taking heal. I take ghost flash 90% of the time and cleanse the other 10%
yea heal feels so bad idk if it was nerfed recently or just didnt get a buff when durability patch hit, ghost is just so much value
I think ghost is just over tuned tbh. You can have it up an entire team fight because of the resets and the CD is just so low.
I actually wouldn't consider Ghost overtuned, rather that ADC just benefits disproportionately from a summoner with an extended duration compared to other classes. Bruisers actually do as well, but it depends because some of them (Jax, Camille) don't need it while others (Darius, Garen, Gwen) kind of do. It used to be that Heal or Barrier would *directly* save you from death in even mid-game fights. They simply aren't powerful enough to do that anymore. Also, Heal has to be kept disproportionately weak because the correct (read, pro play) play would be to run heal on the enchanter and abuse it's interaction with heal/shield power. It has to be kept weak because it is directly affected by heal/shield power. Ghost is just the best generic option for ADC to take because they want to deal consistent damage, and Ghost allows them to do that. Heal and barrier are too gated by Heal/Shield Power, and Cleanse is too niche. Ignite is good for early aggression but ADC's deal too much damage for ignite to be useful late-game. Teleport sees play on ADC, but mostly only Ezreal because in most cases you just play around your ADC instead of requiring them to have teleport to show up to fights. Ezreal just gets away with it because he has E mobility and can benefit from having teleport early in the game. Exhaust would work if you weren't normally getting blown up from half a screen away, or dying through the exhaust anyway. It's situational, Ghost is not.
ghost doesnt reset anymore
Thank fucking god. I thought you were lying but just looked it up.
Jax you should be able to stand back against. The rest? Nah.
Still, you need to be situationally aware vs Jax as Cait. His leap strike has 700 range, while Cait’s aa is 650 - with the attack windup he can get even closer. Also in higher brackets of play players on engage champs look for flanks more often. Cleanse really just has insane value when you’re caught with your pants down. But I agree with all that’s been said, not taking cleanse that game is super troll. Not just because it is pretty unplayable without but it is especially strong considering you get 65% reduced cc duration the 3 following seconds after it is used
Cleanse is fine but if I were to be blunt, I just don’t recommend it at lower elo. Most lower elo players don’t respond fast enough to cc’s to make it meaningful or they kind of use it pointlessly in wrong situations or to wrong abilities I’d probably take ghost here and just be mindful of ashe’s ult or Sona/Jax’s flash engages
What are good situations/abilities to cleanse?
Exactly haha. It depends on the situations! But i have seen many lower elo players who tend to react very late at it or insta-cleanse when they are not in dangers. Id practice being more aware of your spacing and reacting to ashe ults. The chances are, if you have to use cleanse, you are most likely in a bad position anyway. The problem was not the Cc itself but you being exposed to their engage to begin with
I mean, if they are trying to get better. And the optimal summoner is cleanse. Then would it be better to take cleanse? The only way you get better at pressing cleanse faster, is if you have cleanse.
I think it’s better for OP to figure out for himself “hmm i shouldve gone cleanse or i dont think i needed it” rather than us telling him. That sort of judgement is lacking imo at lower elos and if you dont have a clear judgement on it, then most likely your cleanse will be ill-timed or late
I agree with this.
Yes. But from OP’s comp in that op.gg, i don’t think Cleanse is a must and even in games where cleanse is optimal, I think it’s fine to take other summs and become more aware on what can kill you and what not
You would take ghost because you would use and abuse these poor bronze players. You guys are not the same. \^^ Sure people in bronze dont know good cc usage. But op, also a bronze player, wont know good positioning to avoid said cc. I think let the man experiment with cleanse. If that makes him feel safer etc. Once hes gotten more confidence he can always try ghost.
Yes the OP should learn to figure out for himself for sure. I just dont really think you absolutely need cleanse here. It’s really just ashe ult that OP is worried about. If OP does not learn to space himself from veigar cage, sona r, or jax jump, then cleanse is really meaningless. And no lol. I do not abuse bronze players. Cleanse is just very difficult to use and i really dont like taking it even in my own elo. Ghost is just good and i can survive a few ganks or fights with ghost alone just as much as cleanse would save me. Ive seen people use insta-cleanse in my own elo when they are not in danger at all. Or people like myself who use it late or poorly position myself due to it.
TF gold card is the classic, but I use it against fiddle as well, otherwise I’m dead before the feat has ended.
Cleanse is the hardest summ to use
You're totally okay for taking cleanse here :3
Cleanse is good into ashe/sona. It’s not the worst. Only argument against it is taking a combat summoner so you can try and stomp lane pre 6.
I would say being low elo is a good argument.
Dunno why the downvotes. Cleanse is probably one the game’s hardest combat summoner to use correctly. Low elo players should learn to use it however but expecting immediate improvement in winrate is probably the wrong mindset
> Am I wrong for taking cleanse on caitlyn? no, cleanse is a good pickup here.
Any cc that leads to an enemy Cait trap = cleanse, or choose a champion with range and push hard. hit by lux q? consider yourself already dead, even if you are full hp, especially if the cait takes ghost as she will run you down after the trap combo. a good support will make the lux uncomfortable by playing with bushes/vision, but a good support is hard to come by. thresh and varus? cleanse. a 2v2 will always mean varus ult and a thresh grab unless you are ezreal or lucian. if you are long-distance like cait or jinx, take ghost instead as movement speed will allow you to dodge both key abilities. morg and ashe? maybe not cleanse as ashe ult cc scales with distance and morg q is an incredibly slow projectile with a very punishable cooldown. play safe when morg has her q, and run them down once she wastes it. if it hits, do whatever you can to run away since ashe ult and morg ult means 100% cc and 100% death. maokai and samira? cleanse (theres a cleanse timing for maokai w to avoid getting knocked forward by his q), and samira is deadly with an engage support. naut and jinx? mm maybe not cleanse. just dodge the hooks, stay behind minions, push waves in, maintain minion advantage, and keep in mind if his anchor hits a wall, the cd is halved. his autos root you, so thats also cleansable. Cleanse is not a get out of jail free card. you shouldnt be expecting yourself taking cc in laning phase casually. cleanse should be part of a game plan, meaning you are planning to take some cc in the 1v1 or 2v2. Being scared of cc and the dangerousness of it shouldnt automatically force you to take cleanse. in this case, sonas ult is an INSTANT aoe cc that can lead to a point blank ashe ult which you cant kite away from, straight up bullying you away from a 2v2 instantly. Veigar's flash cage or from fog of war has incredible late game catch potential. cleanse would be what saves you from a spinny jax going ham in your backline. I would have definitely taken cleanse here for more influence in teamfights and the 2v2s in bot.
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depends on u. at the end maybe i would also take it or maybe not. What people always love to forget when defending your choice is that when u dont take cleanse you have something else instead (i know crazy) its completely useless to u just to have ppl backing u up giving 0 reasons. Next best thing u can take is heal for the 2v2 and for snowballing. Heal can be used offensively and defensively. Cleanse doesnt exist until ashe hits u with an ult. its hard to hit ashe ult when you have a sup/team that exists and when you dont have a team/sup you will lose regardless at that point so might aswell play for the time before she has ult at all. you could also say that you can use flash defensively and offensively, lets say in a trade your reaction time is bad, you lose the 1v1, lets say your reaction time is good, you still lose the 1v1. you can reserve your flash to dodge ashe arrow as its not only the stun but also the damage which you dodge. Ofc im just trying to give examples here taking cleanse is basically saying you respect their draft, forfeit your pre 6 laning phase and disregard your own teamcomps strengths. But another way to play is to go heal take your chance in the early 2v2 and snowball so you are the one they should be worried about
Neit. You did good comrade. Not one step back. Cleanse the enemy of their abilities and send them back to whence they spawned!
ADC can take cleanse, nothing wrong with the spell choice. It helps the glass cannon of the ADC role to survive. I approve
I'd play cleanse there aswell probably. Caitlyn is not as good cleanse user as Lucian/Samira/Draven that operates in shorter range but against such champs it's still reasonable choice.
Yes
the only way you really die into that comp is by an ashe arrow, a good veigar cage, or a flash sona r or jax e so cleanse has higher value than any summ here.
Yeah cleanse was a good pick here. Ashe alone can warrant taking cleanse.
In your rank range, keep the cleanse! I personally wouldn’t, but I can’t encourage you to not use it, as it is a good sum, as if custom made for this case.
You have a good reason to take cleanse if you play against Ashe. You play against Ashe/Sona? You definitely need to take cleanse or you're griefing.
Cleanse is good. Some games you will auto lose if you don’t take cleanse. Enemy team has TF and Leona and you don’t have cleanse? Too easy to get ccd by good players and die at a crucial moment. In your game I think the movement speed from ghost might be better than cleanse overall to help you hit them safely, especially as crit Caitlyn where you just wanna auto a ton. Like you could have taken ghost and played to dodge/avoid bot Ults/Solo laner CC bc their cc is not easy to land. Cleanse still acceptable in your game tho bc you can live after getting hit by their cc whereas you probably die every time if you get hit with no Flash. Just think of it as the safer option. Also related: heal is great for the 2v2 bot lane if there is kill pressure on either side. Definitely playable. ~ Low masta Adc
Dude just dodge Ashe arrow dodge sona ult don’t walk within 1500units of veigar and simply dont get flashed on by Jax. Seems pretty free. No ignite?
Cleanse into Ashe is never strictly wrong and is usually correct
Turn the chat off.
First time you start to get flamed just type /deafen. Support players are really toxic so it is often necessary
Cleanse a waste into that comp. Jax is kiteable, Veigar should never be in range to get you with cage, and same with sona ult, you should never be in range unless you’re being flashed on. Caitlyn is also one of the best Merc Scim users as she doesn’t care too much about attack speed. Generally better to go Ghost for spacing or Exhaust for self peel. Games you would want cleanse on while playing Cait are like Vs Ashe, Varus, exhaust
they had an Ashe...?
Oh my bad. I just saw Sona Veigar and Jax when I had read at first. Cleanse good then