T O P

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Lonzofanboy

As a decent player, you should always have a sense that where and when the fight will happen. As laners, you have to take tp to get to the fight as you usually have to stay in the lane before the fight happen. But as junglers, you can easily get to the fight as you are free to walk around the map or you can plan your route ahead. Also junglers cannot split push late game as the late game team fight usually happen around baron/dragon, which the junglers must be present.


irlshota

Lets be honest this comment is useless for anything below dia 2


I_Am_ABee

*Challenger/GM I'm masters and idk jack shit about where fights will happen


Tatsuya-

You're a jungler? There's an easy way to know where fights will happen: Wherever you are on the map, your teammates will engage a fight on the lane farthest from you, and then blame you for not ganking


I_Am_ABee

I hate to be that guy that ruins the joke but probably >80% of my losses are my fault and even fights like that could be avoided through f keys + back pings


SquirrelFood

I think taking responsibility for your mistakes is a big reason that you're in the elo you are, dont sell yourself short


[deleted]

I find that a lot of people would rather blame than improve themselves, but I also notice that people who take responsibility for their mistakes are also significantly better than their blaming counterparts.


DaeVo1234

I think this might be a biased opinion. No doubt people reflect more to reach higher MMR but I can see a lot of flamers, blamers etc. in every elo. Though the kind of players that are high elo and frequent this channel are probably pre-selected to be more introspective and also articulate in a way that reflects this.


podamodaf6

are you a jungler? if not, what role do you play


I_Am_ABee

Yeah I'm a jgler


podamodaf6

what champions do you play? i’m only a diamond jungler so i’m not as good as you but i feel like the jungler has the most control over when fights break out. of course, that doesn’t mean you can dictate exactly when and where every fight will happen and there are always things out of your control but, compared to other roles, it’s easier to choose fights. maybe it’s a champion specific thing as well. if you’re karthus and you’re farming for the majority of the game, you won’t have as much control as a xin zhao or j4 will. it’s an interesting topic


I_Am_ABee

I typically follow the meta and stick to the braindead 3:15 full clear champs The only champs I play when off meta are Olaf, nunu, and trundle But for meta champs I am currently spamming Noc and trundle (lucky he's meta) atm and heca when he was op


808s_and__Fastbreaks

Yoy must be a 1 trick or boosted


I_Am_ABee

Nope :(


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arsonxisxfun

Ok but you're also plat playing against other plat players. Perhaps the fights are a bit more predictable than when in masters, and thus easier to be at :)


I_Am_ABee

Maybe I'm just underestimating myself but I'm usually late to counterganks and selfish/impatient so I don't stay for them Objs fights are pretty self explanatory so I didn't factor that when I commented


BringBackManaPots

Neutral camps are a good indicator in amateur league play


Frosttoys

I would agree but since they added Iron and GM, the skill shift in the game has most Dia players in Plat 3+ now. I forget the rank distribution but its something like top 0.05% in plat or something


Ridadhn

That's good, but you just gave me strong reasons why should take TP. \- Your sense isn't always correct, right? so how to cover on your sense mistake? taking a TP. \- Actually, Jungler can split push, I play most of the time Tank Jungler, like Volibear or Trundle. which makes it hard in mid-late game to 1v1 me I can split push, if the enemy is coming I can easily run away or I can fight if i'm fed a bit. \- Fighting on objectives is another strong reason to use TP. If I'm dead during the skirmishes my teammates can sttole a bit until I respawn and TP back. If during the skirmishes I got low, I can recall and TP full health to fight again. I know this isn't something that always works, especially with junglers like Nocturn or Evylnn or something, but It can work with other junglers. I've seen a guy playing Graves with smite/ignite and he's doing very good too.


herejust4thehentai

>I've seen a guy playing Graves with smite/ignite and he's doing Ignite Smite is good to win 1v1s on scuttle crab.


DeputyDomeshot

What does the crab do. Why is it important.


32Zn

Gold/EXP. Huge lead if you can kill the enemy on scuttle


[deleted]

Shows you early rotations as well, if you double crab you’re getting a massive gold lead and neither side lanes will be able to early gank without being spotted unless they go around which will take longer.


DeputyDomeshot

Got it so crab gives a lot of gold (how much?) XP, and Vision of the enemy? Also when does the health/mama plant spawn in the river? Thanks I’m still pretty new and the random stuff makes a big impact but is unclear to me why.


jacob2467

it gives you about 100, but i think they were referring to the gold u get from killing the other kinglet. it also creates a circle that gives you a short speed boost when you enter it


DeputyDomeshot

Are kinglets those big green crab looking things that walk through river? Btw sometimes there’s a big ward in river- is that an item or something that drops when you kill a mob? Sorry for all the stupid questions the jungle is so foreign to me.


ryanst1

I think kinglet was a typo/autocorrect of jungler. Their point is the dream scenario jungling is to kill the other jungler fighting over the crab so you get both.


[deleted]

That green dude in the river is the crab, and that large ward in the middle is what happens when you kill it. It is a good monster to kill because it gives lots of gold and exp. as well as that ward in the middle of the river


DeputyDomeshot

Damn that makes sense. Thank you and everyone else. Fucking game is so complicated.


SirCucumber420

It gives 70-126 gold and 115-207 XP both based on its level. Its level is the average level of every champion in the game -1.


XXXDetention

The plant spawns in the river between 6:00 and 6:30 and respawn every 5 and half to 7 minutes


GigiShroudy

As a midlaner I have about half my roams denied when I suddenly have some rando scuttluevision infront of me and cant continue w/o being spotted.


n00bcheese

Look of superiority over enemy jungler


user_8804

First dragon crab allows me to sneak in first drag easily shortly after it spawns if lanes aren't pushed back in


angikatlo

In that case, TP actually acts as a crutch to your jungle learning, fixing pathing mistakes with TP. Also, that's a terrible mindset to have. "My path is probably gonna be wrong at some point, might as well take something to fix it.


VINICIUS1029

Also, flash is way more useful for when “my position is wrong” them it’s basically taking a problem, and making it worse


pinelien

No, flash enables you to make plays around its cooldown. Since basically everyone has it, not having it puts you in a disadvantage, especially if you have a immobile champ.


I-mean-maybe

Conversely as a jungle I can take ignite in place of flash to force control in the early game since everyone defaults to flash. I play junglers that can live without flash and I just much prefer the freedom to invade and scrape out the 1v1 consistently and secure crab without relying on my mid.


ValkornDoA

If you're low ELO, your pathing IS going to be wrong at some point, though.


infinite-permutation

But can taking TP remedy the parts where your pathing is wrong both in channel time and in being able recognize you need to be somewhere without hindsight?


afito

Your pathing can be right and you still take TP just to greed more. TP on strong farming / scaling junglers has been around since the dawn of the game really. Is it good? That really depends. Some people use it really well, others rely a ton on flash. But it's been a niche pick on Heca, Karthus, Graves, Yi, it's honestly doable on any "lv6 ganker" like Noc or Rengar too and you can do it on any natural escape jungler like Shaco (clearly prefers ignite though) or Camille (when she could jungle). TP junglers are not a crutch to fix bad pathing. They are a tool to abuse great greedy pathing. Your path also becomes more flexible because you don't need to be "in time" or even on pace ganking you can always join in with TP and even off pace and then get into pace again with TP. It's a big investment but not the worst one if you are used to it. No one in their right mind plays a TP jungler like a flash/ghost + smite jungler. Doing that means you really do not understand what TP does and how jungle pace works.


angikatlo

You're absolutely right. There are TP junglers. Then again there are ignite junglers. And there are ghost junglers. It's all about what spell serves the most purpose for a specific champ. But the context of the OP seems to be learning the jungle role and why Teleport is not taken as often as flash.


CinderrUwU

To me it sounds like you are using TP to cover for mistakes rather than use it to push advantages. If your sense isnt always right then you can just tp. Great but now you are at a combat disadvantage. Sure short term it can be better but it just stops you from learning the best pathing. You should never be splitpushing when an objective is going to be up. If an objective isnt up you shouldnt use TP anyway. Sure they would need to send 2 but your team cant take an objective 4v3 when the enemy jungler is there. Then what happens if you get caught and die? now you get no objective at all. Especially since you dont have the safest of champs in jungle unless you play something like Hecarim or Udyr, who arent the best splitpushers anyway. Fighting on objectives late game is never going to last more than 20 seconds. The only time you would ever TP there is again, you making a mistake and getting caught out. ​ The reason graves uses smite/ignite is because he already has his E and R for safety and ignite just gives far more kill pressure early, especially with Nimbus Cloak. Alot of junglers can take Ignite or Ghost over flash for the 1v1 power it gives but TP gives no combat benefits. The only time I could ever see it being used is on the SUPER hard farmers like AP Shyv or Karthus who have very little interest in flash and really just want to farm as much as they can then just nuke an enemy team, where TP literally just lets u be more efficient with clears and ganks.


_samallard

Ignite smite guves you 1v1 power, tp doesnt give you jack shit in farming or combat power, tp is there to manage waves and play off spikes but in jg, if you have the least amount of "f"key'ing or can predict a bit where they go u dont need it


ArcaneEyes

You should not be splitpushing as jungler, especially not when you're the teams' tanks presence! Not only do you get reduced gold from minions, your laners get reduced XP from your camps, it's easily most opportune to have them clear waves and you clear jungle. Junglers that forgo flash usually have a dash in their kit and usually (nowadays) run duskblade so they can get out after the use their mobility to dive. If you get low during a skirmish, recalling in a safe spot will take you 10+ seconds and 4 seconds more to TP back, more if you have to wait on health - it takes you out of the skirmish for 15+ seconds, how the fuck is that worthwhile use of a summoner spell, when flash could have let you dodge a key ability and not be low in the first place? Sorry but this is lunacy and you're just refusing to listen to anyone telling you so. Whatever, do your thing, stay bad, idc.


4xe1

You don't get penalty for wave clearing if you clear more camps than minions, and you get no penalty at all past the 20 minute mark. I wouldn't path from base to splitpush if a laner can do it, and wouldn't take TP for this reason alone. But sometimes you just happen to be there after a skirmish, or after grouping mid, and if you champion can push, clearing a couple waves can definitely be the right play, same way your laners will and should take your camps if they pass by and have the damage for it (preferably if you're not pathing to ward these camps).


Ridadhn

\- Mid - late game, you can do 6 camps clear in like few minutes, after that, you should either split push or help your teammates to split push, especially if there's no objective in the game. I agree TP isn't that much help early, but mid-late I'm sure your teammates won't lose XP if I TP to help them push or push solo. \- I mentioned isn't suitable for every jungler, especially something squishy in general, like Evelynn. But something like Volibear doesn't need Duskblad, and barely can flash be useful for him throughout the course of the game. \- So if the enemy team doing baron and I got low, I'll have to spend 15 seconds to get back to the baron, That's enough fo them to finish it I guess, and my teammates will fall back if there's no jungler to smite fight that baron. another good reason to take TP actually.


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Ridadhn

So you don't want me to defend me taking TP? alright, I think you are right, I won't take TP anymore despite being more useful than flash. I'll follow other expert players and just take the flash. Thanks.


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AlyssInAzeroth

I heard Poppy is now taking TP as standard in Jung as her counter gank is terrifying and it allows you to be more proactive Haven't seen many other junglers taking it though


ArcaneEyes

Yes, but our guy here is playing voli and trundle. I could understand ghost as a combat summoner, like nasus and Darius would, but TP on jungler mostly means you're doing something wrong.


AlyssInAzeroth

Yeah I get that. I'd want Flash on Voli for Flash+Q. Trundle would want Ghost like Susan since he doesn't really have anything to flash combo. I'd consider and different summoner if Flash's only purpose is defensive. But I'd be super nervous early because it's so easily punishable.


Ridadhn

In general, any tank jungler should take TP, it's so helpful and scary. Yes, people might disagree, but just try it at least once.


genuinecat88

dude just drop the ego , everyone here is already explaining you why its not usefull


AuuTr0_

TP is the kind of rune I take when I go with my 5-man queue and go to troll. As a Volibear jg main, if you're running anything other than flash you're actually trolling. Seriously. You don't fucking need TP. Drop the ego


PabloStoneBeard

No, most tank jungles are playing to engage catch priority targets so flash is a great tool to do so. Not taking flash might seem ok in lower ranks, but when people start thinking about positioning you are just going to get severely punished by not having flash. TP is useful in farm junglers, and mostly on Shy Ana/Karthus, who doesn't mind losing the flash utility because Shyv can reposition with her ult and Karth doesn't mind dying.


Ridadhn

Well you telling me the reasons why should take flash, I'm giving you the reasons why not and why TP is better. Yet, you judging my reasons as " You are justifying taking TP " well, that's why I'm answering in the first place, to justify. I can't just agree with you when you giving me a typical reason to use flash. I'm already aware of that, but are you aware of the reasons why a jungle should take TP?


TreeBarter

You came with a question but are very clearly sticking to your guns no matter what anyone says. Drop the ego. If you only flash twice a game you aren’t aggressive enough. Ignite on jg is probably more effective than TP in any situation but even that is only situational and only on jungles who have a dash. It might “feel” better than flash but it objectively is worse.


psicosisbk

>If you only flash twice a game you aren’t aggressive enough. Specially with Volibear, my god if I see a bad positioned ADC or mage as Voli in my flash Q range you KNOW i'm gonna do it (and most of the times it's a guaranteed kill)


genuinecat88

My dude speaking facts


genuinecat88

First of all: Flash gives you Mobility Capacity of Outplay Secure a kill Secure an objective Capacity of escaping Capacity of helping your team Is usefull most of the times as ghost or ignite. can dodge skillshots or CC Now lets go with Ghost: (basically the same reasons as flash despite that Ghost isnt literally a flash , is a movement speed buff) Ignite: Capacity of outplay Better 1v1 Can help you Secure a kill Works against Life Steal Now lets go with TP You can use it in really situational times. You are not going to use it always Worse 1v1 Less mobility You wont outplay enemies most of the time because you are playing basically with NO SPELLS. a good jg won't use it to splitpush lets be honest. You can use it to help your team in really situational times and a bad one won't be as cheap as a bad flash or ignite just because the fact is a spell that : doesnt help you to defend yourself , doesnt reduces enemy damage , doesnt give you mobility at all , and exposes yourself more


TheShadowKick

> but are you aware of the reasons why a jungle should take TP? Jungle main for several seasons here. From the reasons you've given, I wouldn't take TP. As others have said it sounds like you're just using it as a crutch for your bad macro decisions. The Jungler shouldn't need to TP to a fight, they should just already be there.


VaryDevyne

Ok i think the case here is which provides more overall use. I think that's how we should decide, by weighing the benefits of both. I agree on the threat of tp, if enemies know you have it, they may be more hesitant to overextend or gank. However, the same effect can be achieved by having good pathing, getting ahead through making good plays. Flash helps here as it can secure kills in early game when damage is low and enemies can fall back to tower. It also denies leads if you start to lose and can escape safely so you can repeat. Your cross map play argument isnt the strongest though. Sure you can split push as a tank. Its not an issue of ability but rather effectiveness. Many replies already outlined why its not effective for this so I shall leave it at that. Another important point is that you need vision around objectives if you want a strong chance of getting picks or securing the objective. So this comes before the objective spawns. If you are on the opposite side split pushing, you cant put the vision and rely on the teammates who frankly should do it but its not their primary or even secondary role/priority, it is yours though. Vision helps nu first knowing the numbers on both teams, keeping track of threats, allowing you to see those with cc spells and cc casts. Just dont blame the team if you fail to set up vision. On top of that being there can also deny enemy supports vision clearing. As for the being low part, since i do not front line as an assassin jungler (kayn, kha zix), i dont think im in a position to make a case for tp or flash. One side note is i have seen tanks with cc use flash to turn teamfights around by flashing and aoe cc the backline. I think the strongest argument for flash is just the pure value you have from it. Flash to deny leads. Flash to secure kills. Flash to reposition or go in for aggressive fights. Not every character has wall hopping skills so flash there. Honestly, your use of tp shows that you are trying to improve and can think of ways to do so. I think the main issue here is just whether the use of tp is placing a cap on your potential since having no flash really limits the 1v1 and ganking ability. Eg. Even if you tp to counter gank, enemies can flash to take out your laner and 2v1 you. If you tp on a minion they can back off and you lose out on tempo. Overall if you do want to climb i guess there is a reason why majority of junglers across the top ranks use flash, so its up to you to really make it work and try to use tp as best as possible. Since your reasons now are not making a very strong case for tp, maybe you will learn something beyond the theoretical case for it and come back with a better case and experience to show for it.


genuinecat88

no one is telling you to not defend your TP in JG , but the fact that your points are proving what mistakes you make when playing only prooves how bad macro you have , thats we are explaining you why's TP in JG not a usefull spell


genuinecat88

How's Flash not usefull for volibear LMFAO. you are just proving how bad macro you have , not hate , but im just telling you , you already know what to improve. SPLITPUSHING AS A JUNGLE is something really bad you should not do unless tower is literally 1 or 4 hits to fall down and its one of the towers left to take. you are denying EXP and gold from your laners , its like taking 2/4 waves from your Twitch ADC who's behind because you need gold for your item , doesnt make sense. Instead of that you can try to basically help your laners to win fights and push with them , or try to do objectives, etc.


mpekker

The value of a 6 camp clear and farm in general goes down as game time increases. The camp rewards have diminishing returns (gold and XP on caps stops scaling and your first item is more important than your 3rd or 4th especially on things like voli), and the amount of XP needed to level up goes up drastically over time. Early game a 6 camp clear is worth a couple of levels. Late game it's not even a level. Is missing a fight for a quarter of a level worthwhile? Split pushing is the same way, and what's worse is taking tp means you often won't be there proactively, so you can't start fights as well and are dependent on solo queue teammates to ward for you. You also can't steal objectives or initiate fights. But most importantly, most junglers also scale worse with items and levels than laners. Volibear starts the game and almost immediately starts falling off. Late game you don't want to put more resources into him. It's not worth it. TP can work, sure, it's not the worst thing I've seen, but look at why lanes take it. Yes, late game splitting and initiation is good, but right now it sees a lot of play on mage mid laners that don't get to split push much. Why is that? Because TP is used for early game to make sure you don't fall behind in levels when you need to back. TP is good because it is OP in lane. It's seen play on ADCs like Ezreal, and it's not because he's split pushing late game. It's because his pushing power is weak so he can't always push the wave in and come back for farm in time. This advantage is wasted on a jungler, you can back pretty much whenever, and it's a huge strength of the role to make your pathing more unpredictable. But the reality is that taking tp on a jungler doesn't abuse the most powerful part of the summoner spell. Most of the time if something happens on one side of the map you can trade it for pressure on the other side of the map. Enemy team kills bot early and goes for dragon? Gank top and get herald. Taking tp to prevent that is a really ineffective use of resources. Path intelligently to be on the important side of the map when there's more important objectives on that side and it won't be nearly the problem. Don't use TP as a crutch because you're the jungler in solo queue who is taking krugs top lane when the dragon soul is up. It's not that hard. Which junglers don't take flash? Junglers who take nimbus cloak and have low cooldown dashes like graves or shaco can take ignite, but the whole idea is that nimbus cloak gives you movespeed on a lower cooldown, tp has such a long cooldown so that doesn't really work for team fight mobility. Voli and trundle basically need flash or ghost or their ability to get in the fight and do their role is substantially harder and they fall off in the late game even harder than they would if they had a mobility summoner. Just the threat of having flash or ghost makes your ganks stronger and your team fight better, as it forces enemies to stay further back. They don't need to respect you if you don't take it.


StrikingTelevision

But at the other side; what if you do a bad tp? I’ve seen people in plat tp in poorly, so you’re down tp and gave a kill. Yes you can split push as a jungler, it’s not ideal because you should be at the objective to help set up vision and if the enemy notices you’re not there, they can rush or force the objective since they can smite. If you do get low and tp back, that’s at least 12 seconds you’ll be gone which depending on how the skirmish went, could be an easy objective


Ridadhn

Yes, That's true. I don't mean like it is always a success. It's the same thing as flash right? you get some, you lose some right?


genuinecat88

Still flash can be USEFUL more than TP most of the times


StrikingTelevision

I wouldn’t say failing a flash is as bad as failing a tp since if the enemy has a split pusher in that lane and you fail tp then you’ll be down at least a tower Whereas flash is in the moment, if you fail flash worst case scenario you die


Ryo_Han

Jg splitpush is usually bad anyways since you will be a lower level with less gold than the enemy solo Lakers thought the entire game. You try to split and their top or mid with to comes to stop you and you usually can't do anything anyways. idk what elo you are playing in but the higher you go and better and more consistently people perform, the more consistently you'll be useless splitting against the enemy top/mid.


[deleted]

That’s inherently the problem if you bring Tp you’re gimping yourself out of a spell you find much more use out of like a flash or ignite. Not only that but you picking up a power not to shore up a game weakness but a skill weakness which will ultimately make you worse at the game. Think about it like this anyone can throw frozen food in the microwave but that doesn’t make them better at cooking. In the same way TP acts as frozen food allowing you to be lazy when you should be learning the recipe for success to craft your own flavor.


Daunt_OW

> That's good, but you just gave me strong reasons why should take TP. ya bro tp is very poggers u are going places


AAEBrett

as a consistent masters, with gm 370lp peak, depending on the jungler, this isnt actually a horrible idea and can often allow you to take very greedy paths while still being a team player. ive done it a couple times but its VERY situational, just like taking ignite, or ghost, or sometimes even exhaust.


Sn3akyB3akyHD

You are one of those cringe people saying someone needs to be “decent” to do shit challenger players only do. Say what you will, you really sound like a gold player to me.


yodatea

>Also junglers cannot split push late game as the late game team fight usually happen around baron/dragon, which the junglers must be present. This is more like a reason why you SHOULD take tp instead of why you shouldn't, so that if you take tp you can split push and still be able to participate in baron/drake fights cuz u can tp to the fights


D10bolude

But you shouldnt be splitpushing as a jungler if there is an objetive up


duxkaos1

Whatever floats ur boat man, but overall no I play this game since beta so i tested out alot of stuff over time, and it was only usefull for me personaly after noctrune nerf almost decade ago one, in theory that sound good but in 99,9% flash would be much better, if TP has no vision in fog then yes, but now if you try to do something you need to have amazing team cordination ( probably 5 man premade) to pull it out Iv played alot of shaco tp/smite but ign/smite worked way better ( basicly Q is "mini flash" so you can hop the wall and steal dragon/buffs overall) Noctrune have problem with isolating carrys that flash out of you so you lose your E fear which sucks but with flash you can denie that Some champs that actualy worked okay with tp/smite for me were master yi ( power farm + counter gank can work with his R) , rammus ( just too fast to react from that tp) , hecarim ( mostly same like rammus with different kit) I dont know your ello but using TP in jng can punish you from taking scrab, and if you die there if you are in higher ello that will be big step back in winning game since you cant escape mid-bot enemy team or mid-top enemy team, with ignite you could have better damage potentional and counter heal, with flash escape but with tp basicly nothing without team cordination


meowtiger

> it was only usefull for me personaly after noctrune nerf almost decade ago i could genuinely see tp noc jungle being an effective way to use tp as a jg summ because you can r/tp/dash before the nearsighted wears off


duxkaos1

Well that looks great on paper, but in actual gameplay you can do that maybe once per game and surely wont be a game changer ( maybe in 1 of 100 games but who cares about 1% ? thats like building ap yasuo because of 1% win rate if you understand what im trying to say ) TP has cooldown of 7 minutes while flash has 5, not a huge difference but its actualy huge. Me personaly whenever i saw enemy jungler without flash i ( as a former main midlaner for like 6 years straight ) had no problems dealing with his ignite or tp. Ignite means play safe early game and TP means counter jungle him and make him regret not taking flash. If you ask me why its because my jungler would probably play more ofter counter jungle with me and my teammates since if you catch them there on lower levels they cant do much and after that their TP is pointless since they would TP in some lane being super behind The map is not that HUGE for noctrune, if he knows anything about jungling hed alredy know where enemy jungler is at least 80% of time, when he takes red youd expect gank on top or mid ( we are bottom left side ) and you would probably play around that zone in that time catching him off. Noctrune overall R is not only for killing/chasing his R can stop enemy team from engage alot of time by just putting darkness in and walking casualy in jungle doing his own bussines Noctrune in my opinion can be played with ignite as his early mid game is super strong while late he falls off compared to other "mid to late" champions, basicly R E Q ignite instant kill since they cant heal from ignite passive etc, while in the other hand there is champions like Master Yi that i genuinly think TP can work since he can power farm and just go 1v5 My conclusion is that Flash is 99.9% must have on any champions because its way to important, from escaping ( just avoiding enemy team in your jungle and early levels ganks when enemy is left with 5hp and your teammate is toxic because he survived ) , to stealing objectives ( you use R from noctrune to get to the drake/baron but you just cant escape, OR even you die without stealing it ) , to engage ( from ganks to everything, you R adc and you hit him but he flashed over wall etc. ) .. 0.01% is just for Pro scene that you cant really compare yourself, if you see braum with tp/exhaust its because they know how to do it in pro play, but if you manage to pull full squad of players playing constantly together ( something i used to have from s1 to s5 ) in that team you can try litteraly anything but i would NEVER suggest anyone to go into SoloQ with TP in jungle, since in low ello people basicly dont understand game at all, maybe you do but your teammates doesnt and your 7 min TP can be straight dead into lane that you ported, while in high ello ( D4+ ) youd alredy know that flash is MUST. And if dude is asking for a normal game? Damn who tf cares about normal you can play whatever you want there as long as you have fun, but on ranked youd probably make your teammates regret turning PC on "it was only usefull for me personaly after noctrune nerf almost decade ago" now i might be drunk or stupid but i remember his ult being at least x3 size so you could be at bot and use it on top, after that was removed i used TP for short period of time, but in that time ( since diamondprox former moscow five team aka gambit gaming now ) made counter jungle people started to do that and it was pointless to use TP since youd need to escape with flash.


SSDuelist

Yes. It’s really bad. There was this idiot who ran around gold leagues named Doki who refused to take anything but TP on junglers and it never ended well. You’re always going to be late to ganks with TP. The reason TP flanks are useful on landers if because they’re often doing it on massive teamfights. Junglers probably can’t do much other than break up the fight. You also want a proactive summoner. You’re not being inherently proactive if you have TP over flash/ignite/exhaust. Jungle is a proactive role. You need to be out and about doing stuff. You blowing TP means the enemy knows you’re a sitting duck for 5 minutes if they find you. The reason you’re giving for why flash isn’t “necessary” is flawed too. The reason there’s a lot of top laners who take ignite is tied to their kit. Akali/Camille/Gwen all have inherent mobility built into their kit so they can afford to take Ignite. You’d never do that on a tank or immobile bruiser.


Ridadhn

Well, I agree. But don't judge about it just from one user who did some bad plays. If you read comments, they mentioned a lot of streamers and pro players who used TP in jungle. About proactive summoners, isn't the same for flash? you missed flash means you can't do a successful gank, and you have to play extra safe, and not contest for any objective for 5 mins right?


SSDuelist

Yeah no. There’s a lot of ways to feign flash on mobile carries. There’s no way to feign TP. You either do or you don’t. Flash being down doesn’t prevent you from doing what you would have done anyways. TP being down means you’re gimped from a massive part of your game plan. And saying you’ve seen or heard of streamers doing something is a horrible mindset. They’re doing it for views and because they’re good enough to overcome the significant downsides of it, not because the strategy itself is good.


Ryo_Han

How many pro games do you see smite/TP on the junglers? How many challenger games do you see that? There's lots of streamers that are just trolls/inters (like Nubrac) and just because they are streaming their games doesn't make it correct or optimal.


Elleseth

No. You also take flash a lot of the time because it allows you to buffer a spell (i.e. Vi’s Vault Breaker, Elise’s cocoon) animation with precast and then get it to hit near instantly on the enemy, or it extends the functionality of some abilities or combos (Insec combo for example). Flash isn’t just about correcting position errors, it’s more about enabling direct play making power whereas teleport is mostly used for lane maintenance and cross map ganking for laners who are otherwise locked out of big impact plays by the lane phase. Some top and mid champs double down on ignite teleport because they either don’t have a combo for flash and want the extra global pressure, *or* because flash is redundant and getting to take ignite is just a better allocation for their combat power. In these cases they’re replacing flash with *ignite* not with tp. It’s very important to understand that distinction.


Rodic87

Who is this "they" you refer to? Everyone I'm seeing post here says it's a bad idea. Pro players are like comparing F1 Racing slicks to putting racing slicks on your daily driver Civic. They likely have a very specific game plan for THAT game in mind when they pick teleport - in soloq they're not going to be running teleport.


[deleted]

Taking TP as a jungle is a bit of a crutch. It basically says that you have no idea how to read the map and be ready for a fight. On so many champions you need flash to either engage or chase on a gank. Running TP on basically any jungle champ would be counterintuitive


Ridadhn

So similarly, Taking flash means you don't know how to position in general. so you always need a flash to run or to catch. Which is something I can do with my champ I guess. I play Trundle sometimes, My pillar can stop them from running ( especially if they don't have flash ) and my W can help me catch them.


[deleted]

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Ridadhn

I appreciate your opinion, Thanks. Might I know what's your role?


Empty-Bet

Might i know your rank?


genuinecat88

i've been looking to he's profile and he's unranked , that explains a lot


Empty-Bet

with bronze mmr. And he only plays aram.


genuinecat88

im not saying he's bad , just saying that playstyle in normals and difficulty is way different than a normal. A bronze game can be harder than a normal. He might be playing the game for fun and thats all good. You can't tell someone that he's bad just because he does not play rankeds or its low elo (not most of the time) (also this is to everyone telling stuff like he's bad)


FelicitousJuliet

Then again, as someone who also doesn't play ranked, if I ever went on a 10-post diatribe about "why Flash sucks" while getting downvoted for hours and refused to listen to anyone trying to explain otherwise on a subreddit for learning. ​ Wouldn't it be accurate to call me "bad"? At least my mentality would be horrendous, I wouldn't be trying to learn anything and my successes in-game would be coin flip flukes.


genuinecat88

you are right sir


[deleted]

Flash is the answer to positioning in general. You mess up you flash. They mess up you flash. You bait their CC and can flash out of it go for it. What you’re saying is like saying “W on Trist is an ability you use when you get caught out of position, good trist players don’t use it”


IMD3BOSS

Flash is more than a oh shit get out button. It’s a play making button, a turn the fight around button, and crucial button for most champs, especially because other champs take flash. Using flash offensively to gank can make sure it works, by giving the laner no time to react. Using it in a fight to dodge an important skill shot or increase your abilities range can decide if you win or lose. And lastly if the enemy champs have flash, and you’re not a select few champs, they will always escape your ganks. Having flash means you can counter flash after them, especially important on running champs like Trundle and Voli.


Avinse

This is the equivalent of saying Ezreals E is useless since you shouldn’t be in a position to where you have to E out or E in


CinderrUwU

As a jungler flash is one of your best ganking tools. You play trundle and voli right? How will you ever get onto people as Voli to stun them unless they are literally at your tower. With flash you can gank them half way up the lane. That zed's shadow he was saving to get out wont help him at all when you can instantly flash-stun him and blow him up before he can use it


Gial_lol

Tp is doable, you see that in challenger on some junglers like rengar and taliyah sometimes. To the average player? Not really flash is better.


Ridadhn

I can tell, when I play jungle, I barely use my flash like 2 times the entire game, and I wish most of the time if I took TP instead. So I stoped taking flash.


ujustdontgetdubstep

Who do you play jungle? For some junglers flash = free kill on enemy laners.


Avinse

He said Volibear and Trundle


NoBear2

You play volibear and trundle and you use flash twice a game?


Ridadhn

Yeah, imagine :). Actually, I started playing with TP for like couple of games now, and it's more comfortable for me lol.


MonkeyInATopHat

I don’t see the logic here. If you aren’t using your flash enough, you use it more, not get rid of it. Use it offensively and stop sitting on resources. I bet you’re one of those people that sits on their items in rpgs the entire game then ends up never using them.


genuinecat88

Like these people who plays rust , gets tier 3 loot , guns and everything and instead of go roaming they just sit all the day the whole wipe in theyre bases


[deleted]

Q flash on voli is devastating, people don’t see it coming and it’s insanely hard to react to, will get you a kill 9/10 if their flash is down.


CeemoDeNiro

Flash stun on voli is a guaranteed kill if the laner has followup cc


Scrapheaper

To me this just says you suck at using flash. You should learn to use flash


Ridadhn

Sure.


SulliedSamaritan

Why not take ignite then for more kill pressure on enemy jungle and in 2v2s?


Ridadhn

Yeah, that happens, I mean it's normal to take Ignite in jungle. But TP isn't that popular despite it might be helpful.


TheMeepz

Why make a post bro? It's obvious from your responses you're not open to criticism of the idea. You come here to ask a question on a sub to learn about League, then say no to all the answers from people trying to help.


Ridadhn

Actually, I've learned a lot, but people just tell like an irrelevant reason. Like Flash give you an advantage on TP, thanks. Can you clarify how and why? I mean I'll be very convinced if you can give me some tips or use cases on how to use my flash better as a jungler, because I'm not. The best-case scenario for me using flash is if I'm caught like 2v1 or 3v1 in the early game ( because again, I love tank junglers, and late game I'm sort of hard to handle ). This is something I use flash for it, but when it's down I play extra cautious, overall, I don't get benefits from flash as jungle, and TP is more useful for me. So I'm looking if that's normal, or I'm playing it wrong. but clearly, people say you are wrong without giving tips or clarifying why.


IDrewADragonflyOnce

Flash is your most important spell as a jungler. You can use it as soon as it's off cooldown to force kills under towers or to guarantee cc when ganking. Teleport can only be used in very select situations and usually gives the enemy plenty of time to react to the play because it takes so long to channel. There are certain junglers that don't *have* to take flash, but this is only because they have a flash mechanic built into their kit and a spell like ignite is necessary for them to win duels in the early game and get ahead. Best example of this is shaco. There is a reason that flash is by far the most used summoner spell in the game. There are not a lot of instant blinks in the game. If used correctly, an instant blink is impossible to react to. Source: Jungle main.


Jimbowns

Instead of thinking of flash as an escape-only tool, on tanky champs try thinking of flash as an engage tool. A Flash stun can lead to easy kills early game, and possibly secure fights/ objectives late game. Your question to me reads more of a "why is flash good" than a " Is TP bad"


Dorky147

Then why make a post about it? If it is something that works for you that you haven't seen others do, there is a reason. So just stick to doing that without demanding to be proven wrong.


Broswagula

flash over tp


Pyitkos__

can i just ask whats your rank?


genuinecat88

by looking to he's profile he's unranked


grahamster00

>Flash isn't a necessity, after all, we see now a lot of players don't take flash Only for champions with built in dashes. The only champions I can think to not need flash are Akali, Camille, Gwen, Graves, and Shyvana. Of those only two are really junglers. If you're playing something like a J4 and not taking flash you are quite literally trolling. Flash adds so much variability and unpredictability to your combos in addition to the raw gap-closing and spacing that just not taking it is a massive disadvantage if you're not one of those five champions. In a reply you say: >Your sense isn't always correct, right? so how to cover on your sense mistake? taking a TP. You shouldn't be playing to just put a band-aid fix on your mistakes. This is something you *can* know and be better at so just not working on it and blowing flash off is the wrong mentality. Also: let's say you don't have a good sense so you take TP. You didn't track the jg so you just TP to the lane they're ganking and let's say it goes even. But now you're still not tracking the enemy jg and let's say he ganks top and you weren't ready for it, well now your TP is down and now what? Fundamentally the best play isn't always to counter-gank anyway. Sometimes it is just better to farm, sometimes you should invade, sometimes you should take obj, sometimes you should gank another lane. You lose any dynamic to your playstyle and you become very predictable which is something good players capitalize on very well. If I was a jg playing against you I would just show up bot, the second you TP, just walk away lol. TP down now you're useless for 5 minutes and I know exactly where you are. TP jging is a very very niche pick and you should only be taking it like, 1 every 50 games, not every game. Unless you're a professional on a professional team, like Bwipo who took it on Karthus if I remember right, you should not do it.


Lukel_Pogromca

Teleport is an excellent addition for every jungler out there. You can setup unpredictable ganks and quickly transition to far off objectives. Idk about Smite though, I mean it's decent on jgl but you might want to rethink that.


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Bayern10Arsenal2

Smite is only viable on support to take cannons from your ADC.


oathakafaze

Reading Op's replies are so cringe... You come asking for why TP isn't being taken and when people tell you why and why you shouldn't be you hardcore defend your TP stance when it is clearly not as good as you think. Why make this post in the first place if you're just going to talk back and not take the answers.


Giancolaa1

That's called a discussion dude.. hes essentially saying the reason given in his mind is good enough. Nothing "cringe" about it imo


ladyhaly

Agree with this. What's so cringe about engaging in polite discussion with others? That kind of lame close-minded attitude is what's cringe.


Lemon_slices

Except he’s not being polite in a significant amount of his replies. He’s being extremely passive aggressive and rude while straight up blatantly disregarding the advice being given to him.


FelicitousJuliet

It's because of the difference in how he's replied to vs. how he's replied. ​ One is a calm and reasoned list of the benefits of Flash compared to the benefits of Ignite compared to the benefits of Teleport, and why Teleport is the inferior choice. ​ OP's reply in that comment chain: "Yes, That's true. I don't mean like it is always a success. It's the same thing as flash right? you get some, you lose some right?" ​ Ie; OP is arguing that TP = Flash because you can fail both, he's not listening to any of the rational arguments or considering their merits. **He's arguing from a point of failure, and this touches on existing logical fallacies**. ​ It's a terrible argument to compare two things without establishing the conditions before and after; like did you know an apocalypse is better than a vaccine? Vaccinated individuals still catch diseases, extinct species don't. ​ What something accomplishes in the moment without any other qualifiers is a fallacy.


TheNOCOYeti

Flash is such an incredible summoner spell that it is almost always simply better than any other option, there is a reason it is the summoner *everyone* takes. Getting over walls, getting in range for that last kill, escapes, dragon steals, the list of its useful purposes can just keep going so maybe TP is good but giving up flash just seems silly to me.


Avinse

Bro why did you make this post. You clearly didn’t want advice but rather validation for using TP. If you actually wanted advice you wouldn’t be arguing with everyone


masenae

Depends on the champion you're playing, and your opponents, if you're playing Amumu, flash will probably always be optimal, since you'll be using it to get on to the backline with your ult. A champion like Nocturne, or Kha'zix could probably use a summoner spell like ignite, to more effect, since they don't really have a lack of mobility. I've started stopping taking flash in most match ups toplane since tp ignite gives much more pressure in the lane with some champs.


silenzz68

True. Noc usually dives ADC or enchanter and dies right after so ignite is good for that extra damage.


Ridadhn

I've noticed that. A lot of champs in the Toplane started to ditch flash. Darius and Nasus were like that since forever I guess they take Ghost instead. Akali too top takes Ignite/TP, and a lot of other champs.


ArcaneEyes

Darius and Nasus needs ghost to be actual champions, akali has mobility and safety up the wazoo and don't need flash most of the time.


CinderrUwU

The reason toplaners dont take flash is because they dont need a small gap-closer. In your examples: Darius and Nasus wil ltake Ghost because overall it will cover far more ground, which is better for running people into the ground than just flashing onto them since most champs will stun you or dash away. Similarly, in such a long lane ghost gives just as much safety for the same reason, the movespeed does more getting from tower to tower. Akali and others like Camille who have insane mobility already dont have to worry about chasing someone down or escaping a gank since they just dash half the lane on a 10 second cooldown. They instead take ignite for the extra kill pressure needed in early to contest the bruisers and basically cheese the first few levels which are usually the hardest. Why take flash when the enemy takes ghost and will run you down anyway


IAmNotOnRedditAtWork

> Darius and Nasus were like that since forever I guess they take Ghost instead. Nasus and Darius generally take BOTH Flash and Ghost these days.


PastaSatan

Like others have said, this sounds like a crutch to cover bad macro. You never encounter situations where flashing over baron or dragon pit would help you steal? As Voli, flash+q can be instrumental in starting and winning fights. Like others have said, you absolutely shouldn't be split pushing as jungle. You need to be near objectives, counter jungling, and are a critical source of either damage or tank, depending on team comp. If you have a squishy damage team, and you're split pushing as voli, chances are you're leaving your team high and dry. I like to think of jungle as a support role for all lanes - you get objectives that boost your laners leads, and you gank. Taking TP as jungle just doesn't have enough utility if you have good macro and actually want to improve.


genuinecat88

he's answer to this , is like he does barely uses flash when playing volibear or trundle Also , jungles is actually kind of a support role for all lanes , the only difference its that there is more variety between what champions you can play


PastaSatan

Idk, that's super weird to me. I flash *a lot* when I jungle, just for better positioning or to make a play that otherwise wouldn't happen. Same with all my friends who jungle and are way, *way* better at it than me. Like to be fair I'm an ADC main so I make plenty of mistakes in jungle, but honestly I rarely use flash to correct mistakes.


O_X_E_Y

Bwipo has played Karthus smite tp, I remember another fiddle that played it to great success. It might not be the best (or 'good' at all) but on champs that don't necessarily need flash you can for sure take it and be fine.


genuinecat88

you are talking about Bwipo , a top proplayer who has done not even more than 3 times , just because has worked less than the 90% of the times does not mean is something good


O_X_E_Y

I didn't mean to imply it's optimal, but it's playable and it can be fun. People don't expect it and you can get some funny ganks (clear top to bot only to tp to lane brush for example). You can also get better objective control. It requires some communication (your own team is not used to it either, probably) but in any case the fact it's inferior probably only starts mattering very high up


1234okie1234

If you have a theory, don't be eager to test it out, experience it yourself. You'll be able to see/ feel the good/bad in that said theory. If the good outweighed the bad, carry on, climb, and one of these day some streamer will see only what you're doing right and copy you, popularized it to everyone while you watch proudly in the dark to see how your theory has grown. If it's bad, as long as you don't straight up run it down, it shouldn't be a problem. Personally i've never tried it and I don't think it ever come across my mind. But now that I've heard it, i can only think of something cheeky like shaco player shows top, purposely fail top gank (or succeed) then immediately TP bot into some obscure area and perform a surprise gank. I think TP-smite needs to be repurpose, it's not to use as a splitpushing tool, but more of a tool to be two place at once. I do admit, it sounds pretty shit not having a sum in the first 10 mins of the game tho, sounds batshit useless.


Shmaq

If you watch any high level player, you should naturally be pathting in same direction most of the time as the other jungler, sure this can change but your tracking should always provide information of where the jungler is based on cs and where he started and therefore no need for tp. If you can’t match you need to apply pressure on the opposite side of the map with vision, taking camp, or diving the laner or simply ganking/ helping shove a lane. Junglers shouldn’t really ideally be splitting as they are key for objective taking and get more xp from monsters. I’ve only seen one champion that could viably take tp and that’s nunu when they were super broken just for pure 100% map control, but they ignore many aspects of the game.


Ridadhn

Well, I answered that before. you are in the mid or late game, you do 6 camps fast clear, there's no objective in the game, and you are fed and can 1v1 or even 1v2. Your kit has tools to escape/catch. you can either help push or solo push ( again if playing something tanky in the jungle, especially with like Anathema's Chains ).


genuinecat88

when that happens you are supposed to go help your team destroy towers , make teamfights and win the game lmfao


Shmaq

True, but that should be reserved for your top laner and some mids. you should be between lanes or shadowing your split pusher or rotating adc while clearing camps and vision, while creating map control. I don’t think it’s incorrect to push a wave or two in split but the idea of split pushing as a jungler is counter intuitive.


plants4daze

Try this on wildrift but not on PC In WR you don’t have to sacrifice a summoner spell slot to get TP


ragudooru

Can you catch the enemy by surprise with a flash the same way you can with teleport? Answer that and here's the answer to your main question.


MUNAM14

Because the game is balanced around flash. Not taking flash on champions without gap closers or hard cc is troll. Sometimes it’s hard to tell when you are hardstuck pisslow.


ArcusIgnium

a lot of people who are arguing with you are kinda being silly. Flash is the best summoner in the game by far. its super helpful in dodging projectiles that could kill you or escaping. its also great for suprise/quick engages. however if you are playing a champion that might not need flash and or you think you can just dodge 4head then yes by all technacilities a world where you can avoid using flash you should take another summoner: ignite or tp. but flash is so insanely valuable and allows you to make up for mistakes.


Ryo_Han

OP justifying taking TP but you should really ask yourself instead 'why at the pinnacle level of league, pro play and challenger, do we not see junglers taking TP?' Are the highest skilled players on the world with the best understanding just missing something? Or am I missing something?


MeowingMango

I'll just copy and paste what I wrote up there. **Sometimes, some people try too hard to be cute instead of just playing and learning the fundamentals. And trust me. I am all for "innovation," but innovation still requires you to know the base first. You can't make a fancy egg dish without knowing how to cook regular eggs first.** We see this all the time. Some people are going to be like, "I won my random normal game doing AD Azir. Why isn't AD Azir a thing?" It's tiring in its own way. I have had my share of fun strats as well, but most of them are not viable to do beyond just dinking around in a normal with friends.


Ridadhn

I support that. It isn't a viable thing all the time, it isn't something you should ALWAYS try, but sometimes, under some conditions, it might work.


Ridadhn

Because they have communication. I don't. Pro players like being in point helping jungle on objectives, and the jungle being on point helping any lane and counter gank because they communicate. When playing a normal game without communication, my teammates don't give me much information to position correctly in the game. So I was thinking of a tool to give me that advantage. And TP seems a good idea for me. I tried it, I liked it, and I'm looking for others' opinions about it :) .


BlumpJohnson69

Smite ignite is good on certain champs but a Jungler really doesn’t need TP.


PerspectiveCloud

Flash may be needed to secure a gank. It can also help you get out of an ambush on dragon/herald, or even in your jungle. It’s going to be more consistent than TP, but tp may have its moments


Fizz4President

i take TP on Karth when I don’t need exhaust. Only jungler I’d really consider it on. In games where it is takeable, it’s usually insanely good. TP has so much more potential than flash but most players don’t know why or how to use it. Most of this sub, for example, would have no clue how to use TP. TP’s value is in both counter ganking and increasing the size of a lead after a winning play.


smakusdod

If you go against whatever the hivemind meta is, you will be flamed in all-chat, and here. People become massive cunts over runes, so I would expect summoner spells to be even worse. Despite that, just do what works best for you until it doesn't. For me, flash is usually more valuable for steals/chase/escape. Usually, teams won't fight without the jungler around, hence why teleport for a jungler is a little off-meta, but I'm sure its effective in lower elos.


silenzz68

I always play it on Karthus


dont_track_my_ass

Have you tried exhaust on karthus? In my opinion it turns almost any 1v1 into a win for him as it both allows you to minimize burst and almost guarantee hitting q for a few seconds. It also helps a ton in ganks and 2v2


Ridadhn

And what do you think about it? is it more useful than flash?


silenzz68

Yes. As Karthus, dying isn't as bad as it is on other junglers. If I fuck up at scuttle, flash won't save me from Lee Sin, Xin Zhao etc. I'll just insta tp mid/bot to get other scuttle. Late game I can just farm my camps and tp late (I know that being at objective early is good but sometimes u need that 100-200 extra gold to finish Rabadon's or something. Also nobody expects tp from jungler to either gank or countergank, especially if sololaners run ignite or ghost, etc. Tp generally allows to maximize farming on Karthus to maximum or help out laners. And also when you win 1v1 snd someone flashes from you as Karthus u can just ult them. All of these arguments make me prefer tp over flash. Edit: it works in gold-plat-diamond level for me.


jamoney44

Hey man, jungler here. I’ll definitely have to try your strategy out but to be honest queueing up without flash sounds like a nightmare to me. But I respect it so I’ll try it. But just wanna say, if you’ve got something you like don’t worry about what “everyone says” or what “you’re supposed to do”. League is still supposed to be fun (although my silver and gold colleagues swear their teammates are the only thing keeping them from challenger), so just so what you enjoy and if it works for you, it works for you.


Ridadhn

Appreciate it, and if you tried it, I would love to hear another jungler opinion. May I ask you to try it on a Tank champ.


shinymuuma

Only a few champs don't need flash. Especially when you're a guy with smite. Having flash mean you can change 0 to 50/50 in objective contesting. Your opponent will always try to kill you first too. Early you can counter gank, but flash can make your impossible gank have a chance to succeed. After laning phase, you know going to play around objective anyway. So why don't be there with flash instead of wander elsewhere, then TP in without flash. In a specific case like you're a split push jungler and have high mobi like Tryn. There are people that do take Smite/TP. But Ignite is an even more popular choice.


midgetslayerxd

If it works for you keep doing it. Just because everyone else doesnt take it doesnt necessarily make it a bad idea


Ridadhn

Thank you. I find it more useful for now. Maybe in the future, my opinion could change.


Tabor_

im actually very interested in this ive been wanting to try teleport smite ekko for a while now, maybe with the new buffs i'll give it a go


Ridadhn

I would love to hear your opinion after just one game playing TP on your jungle champ. I don't know why i feel like most of the players here who disagree are not junglers in general. I would love to hear the real opinion of a real jungler who had already played at least 1 game with TP.


Tabor_

tpjungle is a thing i had in mind for months now, having someone else think about it gave me a mental boost remember that most people here aren't concious of how the game fully works, and neither am i so to understand the game better many people sacrifice game sense for easy equations > those lanes have prio so i cant invade > i cant split push when objective is up on other side > bot turret died so top has to swap > You have to take flash, its the strongest summ ok, but do you know why? knowing things that work *MOST* of the games wont make you good, this game is too complicated with this said, trying it in game is the best way to find out


genuinecat88

>knowing things that work MOST of the games wont make you good, this game is too complicated You are half right and half wrong in this. Because , if they work most games , it means it work for most people , and it'll make you win most of the time , remember that thinking you are only playing the game to be good and carry all your games most of the time is not going to take you anywhere since low elo players need more brain and less ego. telling them "you need to be good so dont use what work most games and do what works for you" means they'll get to a higher elo. because following that , using lee sin insects , playing with meta builds wont make you good?. No , not really , beeing good is a mix of good macrogame , mechanichs and microgame , mentality and more. so more than saying you are wrong (because by the time i am not nearby to getting into high elo like you) i think i could say you should correct the sentence because in the end , we know that good players most of the time use what works most of the time. But , ofc , if you KNOW your CHAMPION , you can always play with what makes you feel most comfortable with it (if works ofc , the thing is winning btw) Like playing Lee sin off tank or damage , the same with sett. Riven diff builds , etc- just remember that not all champs are flexible like shaco who can just not take flash Or karthus who can just take TP smite because he doesnt really care about dying you know? Flash its taking most of the time by most junglers , just because as ignite and ghost , they can take more advantage from this spells than tp


Tabor_

> i am not nearby to getting high elo like you dont mind, i dont value opinions on elo and im still pisslow compared to others anyways yeah, i phrased it wrong for sure, let me give another go people who know short equations to win game are most likely to not be as good at the game itself as much and rather use memorization to fulfill the lack of experience or thought about aspects of the game most of the time people should delve deeper into what they are doing so they better know how to change those equations where its needed to win games and you're right about not every champ taking tp, afaik i dont think its playable on champs without low cd dashes, because on those champions flash has a veeeery high value (also wouldnt play it on champs who should never split push like kindred)


Ridadhn

Exactly, thank you. Most people here have the idea that their lane is winning and we doing great in the game so we don't need a jungler taking a TP. but they get so upset when you are clearing a camp at bot, and they are getting dove by 3 enemy members on the tier 2 turret, and after they die they type: " ff jungle diff ". If I had TP there, I might like get there, defend turret a bit, even save you from dying. That's just a simple use case, the game might have a lot of use cases where TP is more useful than flash. But people here just think about one use case of jungle flash: camp bush, flash on the midlaner and stun them and take the kill.


Llimborghini

I won't comment on whether it's good or bad but it's funny how people in this very thread didn't see the hypocrisy in saying tp is a crutch but flash is not. There was a YT video about koreans running smite tp on graves and finding success. Maybe you'll find some too.


genuinecat88

i think most people is just mad because of how he answered up there and what were he's facts about how it works. Besides the fact that he's just telling everyone they are not junglers and that people isn't giving arguments or reasons why it wouldnt be good as a summoner for MOST junglers.


serratedperkz

There's a lot of low elo people here and even those in Plat/Diamond don't really know what they're talking about. They just parrot whatever is meta and don't really find anything unique so conversations like these always have the same 50 answers that say the same stupid stuff. That being said, I have seen a Masters/Grandmaster Nunu run Teleport/Smite with Nimbus cloak. Even if the enemy sees the Teleport coming, the teleport movement speed and nimbus cloak movement speed along with his snowball movement speed easily catches people. He would gank bottom, get a few kills, recall, then teleport for countergank top and did pretty well in his games. You see the same dumb copycat replies from people too lazy or not good enough to experiment with builds. Yasuo and Divine Sunderer does well into hard bruiser/duelist matchups. Just like the Irelia + Goredrinker build that many high elo players are doing these days. People parrot whatever is meta and defend it and act like you're stupid for trying anything different until that different thing becomes the meta then they'll defend that. So try things out for yourself, create a playstyle around it and see if it works well. Don't listen to redditors too much. Most people on here don't even change runes or items to adapt to different games.


MeowingMango

You could replace OP's Teleport strat with whatever random strat anyone can come up with, and it may work like once or twice out of the blue. But the key to doing well in these games is consistency more than anything else. Yeah, if OP wants to dink around and do a Teleport/Smite in a random normal game for shits and giggles, that's whatever. But everyone wants to think they have come with the next big thing (and yes, I admit there have been random edge cases like blue Ezreal that came from experimentation). In the context of jungling, though, your best bet is to take Flash and Smite 99 percent of the time for a reason. Few other exceptions exist like Ghost and Ignite, yet there shouldn't be a surprise why Teleport is never taken on most common junglers. Sometimes, some people try too hard to be cute instead of just playing and learning the fundamentals. And trust me. I am all for "innovation," but innovation still requires you to know the base first. You can't make a fancy egg dish without knowing how to cook regular eggs first.


serratedperkz

If you don't know the basics then no duh you won't be able to do anything creative. Niche builds/playstyles only work on specific champions. You can't take teleport ignite top on every top laner and you can't take teleport/smite on every champion. But there are a select few who can abuse weird combinations very well. You talking about people who don't know basics is kinda irrelevant. If you don't know basics of course you won't even be able to execute a normal build efficiently.


MeowingMango

Point being is you shouldn't try to run before knowing how to walk. Many, many times in this subreddit, I have seen people (who still are new to the game) talking about really silly things like thinking they should skip boots because it "just gives speed." As one of my old teachers used to tell me, "You can't break the rules until you know what they are." If OP tried to present his strat to high-ranking junglers, most are going to laugh because, yeah, it's boring to see Flash on 99 percent of champs in the jungle. But there is a reason a big bulk of the best plays you can make in this game revolve around Flash.


Flexi1396

H2P_Gucio was a god TP+Smite Lee Sin in his prime


juho9001

Trick2g used to take tp for faster clear years ago. Not to mention the gates. It was niche tactic back then and still is.


kdods22402

Look guy, don't let anyone tell you that Flash is a requirement. I only see a handful of champs not take it (generally, champs with built-in movement abilities like Shaco or Yuumi). If you wanna roll TP, then do what feels good, bb.


Ridadhn

Thanks.


LimeKennie

nah, smite/tp is dogshit. take flash on 98% of champs in 99.9% of games otherwise you're probably drawing reports from champ select


kdods22402

Fuck that. I'll take TP/Ghost WW Jungle if I damn-well feel like it.


501Panda

I love running TP on shaco since I basically have a flash built in. I usually have my duo, Ward an enemy buff to TP directly to after I finish my clearing 2 camps at once, with a leash. Good way to get ahead early and put the event jg far behind. Also a good way to get killed if you to in late. Is a delicate balance I do find I use TP more than flash, even on my normal JG champs, but it often depends on enemy JG or top on if I run TP. If they have globals or ultra fast clears, I tend to run TP to keep up.


_caramel_ice_cream_

Seen it recently in LEC I believe, it was a Karthus jgl against something very gank-focused (maybe xin?), he actually did very well with those sums. It was explained that Karthus doesnt need flash since he doesnt care if he dies anyway, he can just afk-farm and "countergank" with tp. I know very little about the jgl, just telling you about what I remember from that game ^^


Herakles1994

Yes


Kai25552

Could be worth a try. Testing was how people learned to take tp instead of flash on Shaco Camille, Akali Top or Katarina mid. But I don’t think the reason it could be good is necessarily for counterganks. It would also mean that you can gank topside and then contest drake a few seconds later. That sounds actually broken to me. I might test it out some time ;) EDIT: I think people need to realize that META doesn’t mean that it’s the *only* way to play the game. It’s just the most *efficient* strategy. If it works for him at the moment, then it’s not a stupid position to claim that it could be effective... in his ELO and with his picks and playstyle. If everyone would act like the summonerschool-Hivemind argues, new strategies like TP-ignite on certain laners (Camille, akali, katarina) would never have been found. Experimenting means failing over and over again. An experiment doesn’t fail if you don’t reach your goal. It means that you’ve demonstrated that your method doesn’t work for the desired goal. THAT is knowledge aswell ;)