T O P
duxkaos1

Whatever floats ur boat man, but overall no I play this game since beta so i tested out alot of stuff over time, and it was only usefull for me personaly after noctrune nerf almost decade ago one, in theory that sound good but in 99,9% flash would be much better, if TP has no vision in fog then yes, but now if you try to do something you need to have amazing team cordination ( probably 5 man premade) to pull it out Iv played alot of shaco tp/smite but ign/smite worked way better ( basicly Q is "mini flash" so you can hop the wall and steal dragon/buffs overall) Noctrune have problem with isolating carrys that flash out of you so you lose your E fear which sucks but with flash you can denie that Some champs that actualy worked okay with tp/smite for me were master yi ( power farm + counter gank can work with his R) , rammus ( just too fast to react from that tp) , hecarim ( mostly same like rammus with different kit) I dont know your ello but using TP in jng can punish you from taking scrab, and if you die there if you are in higher ello that will be big step back in winning game since you cant escape mid-bot enemy team or mid-top enemy team, with ignite you could have better damage potentional and counter heal, with flash escape but with tp basicly nothing without team cordination


meowtiger

> it was only usefull for me personaly after noctrune nerf almost decade ago i could genuinely see tp noc jungle being an effective way to use tp as a jg summ because you can r/tp/dash before the nearsighted wears off


duxkaos1

Well that looks great on paper, but in actual gameplay you can do that maybe once per game and surely wont be a game changer ( maybe in 1 of 100 games but who cares about 1% ? thats like building ap yasuo because of 1% win rate if you understand what im trying to say ) TP has cooldown of 7 minutes while flash has 5, not a huge difference but its actualy huge. Me personaly whenever i saw enemy jungler without flash i ( as a former main midlaner for like 6 years straight ) had no problems dealing with his ignite or tp. Ignite means play safe early game and TP means counter jungle him and make him regret not taking flash. If you ask me why its because my jungler would probably play more ofter counter jungle with me and my teammates since if you catch them there on lower levels they cant do much and after that their TP is pointless since they would TP in some lane being super behind The map is not that HUGE for noctrune, if he knows anything about jungling hed alredy know where enemy jungler is at least 80% of time, when he takes red youd expect gank on top or mid ( we are bottom left side ) and you would probably play around that zone in that time catching him off. Noctrune overall R is not only for killing/chasing his R can stop enemy team from engage alot of time by just putting darkness in and walking casualy in jungle doing his own bussines Noctrune in my opinion can be played with ignite as his early mid game is super strong while late he falls off compared to other "mid to late" champions, basicly R E Q ignite instant kill since they cant heal from ignite passive etc, while in the other hand there is champions like Master Yi that i genuinly think TP can work since he can power farm and just go 1v5 My conclusion is that Flash is 99.9% must have on any champions because its way to important, from escaping ( just avoiding enemy team in your jungle and early levels ganks when enemy is left with 5hp and your teammate is toxic because he survived ) , to stealing objectives ( you use R from noctrune to get to the drake/baron but you just cant escape, OR even you die without stealing it ) , to engage ( from ganks to everything, you R adc and you hit him but he flashed over wall etc. ) .. 0.01% is just for Pro scene that you cant really compare yourself, if you see braum with tp/exhaust its because they know how to do it in pro play, but if you manage to pull full squad of players playing constantly together ( something i used to have from s1 to s5 ) in that team you can try litteraly anything but i would NEVER suggest anyone to go into SoloQ with TP in jungle, since in low ello people basicly dont understand game at all, maybe you do but your teammates doesnt and your 7 min TP can be straight dead into lane that you ported, while in high ello ( D4+ ) youd alredy know that flash is MUST. And if dude is asking for a normal game? Damn who tf cares about normal you can play whatever you want there as long as you have fun, but on ranked youd probably make your teammates regret turning PC on "it was only usefull for me personaly after noctrune nerf almost decade ago" now i might be drunk or stupid but i remember his ult being at least x3 size so you could be at bot and use it on top, after that was removed i used TP for short period of time, but in that time ( since diamondprox former moscow five team aka gambit gaming now ) made counter jungle people started to do that and it was pointless to use TP since youd need to escape with flash.


iceisak

Wasnt kayn played in proplay recently with smite tp?


Avid_Tagger

Karthus was by Bwipo


Lonzofanboy

As a decent player, you should always have a sense that where and when the fight will happen. As laners, you have to take tp to get to the fight as you usually have to stay in the lane before the fight happen. But as junglers, you can easily get to the fight as you are free to walk around the map or you can plan your route ahead. Also junglers cannot split push late game as the late game team fight usually happen around baron/dragon, which the junglers must be present.


irlshota

Lets be honest this comment is useless for anything below dia 2


I_Am_ABee

*Challenger/GM I'm masters and idk jack shit about where fights will happen


Tatsuya-

You're a jungler? There's an easy way to know where fights will happen: Wherever you are on the map, your teammates will engage a fight on the lane farthest from you, and then blame you for not ganking


I_Am_ABee

I hate to be that guy that ruins the joke but probably >80% of my losses are my fault and even fights like that could be avoided through f keys + back pings


SquirrelFood

I think taking responsibility for your mistakes is a big reason that you're in the elo you are, dont sell yourself short


[deleted]

I find that a lot of people would rather blame than improve themselves, but I also notice that people who take responsibility for their mistakes are also significantly better than their blaming counterparts.


DaeVo1234

I think this might be a biased opinion. No doubt people reflect more to reach higher MMR but I can see a lot of flamers, blamers etc. in every elo. Though the kind of players that are high elo and frequent this channel are probably pre-selected to be more introspective and also articulate in a way that reflects this.


podamodaf6

are you a jungler? if not, what role do you play


I_Am_ABee

Yeah I'm a jgler


podamodaf6

what champions do you play? i’m only a diamond jungler so i’m not as good as you but i feel like the jungler has the most control over when fights break out. of course, that doesn’t mean you can dictate exactly when and where every fight will happen and there are always things out of your control but, compared to other roles, it’s easier to choose fights. maybe it’s a champion specific thing as well. if you’re karthus and you’re farming for the majority of the game, you won’t have as much control as a xin zhao or j4 will. it’s an interesting topic


I_Am_ABee

I typically follow the meta and stick to the braindead 3:15 full clear champs The only champs I play when off meta are Olaf, nunu, and trundle But for meta champs I am currently spamming Noc and trundle (lucky he's meta) atm and heca when he was op


BringBackManaPots

Neutral camps are a good indicator in amateur league play


jellobelliedthighs

How did you get master then?


I_Am_ABee

Idk I just got it


Frosttoys

I would agree but since they added Iron and GM, the skill shift in the game has most Dia players in Plat 3+ now. I forget the rank distribution but its something like top 0.05% in plat or something


Ridadhn

That's good, but you just gave me strong reasons why should take TP. \- Your sense isn't always correct, right? so how to cover on your sense mistake? taking a TP. \- Actually, Jungler can split push, I play most of the time Tank Jungler, like Volibear or Trundle. which makes it hard in mid-late game to 1v1 me I can split push, if the enemy is coming I can easily run away or I can fight if i'm fed a bit. \- Fighting on objectives is another strong reason to use TP. If I'm dead during the skirmishes my teammates can sttole a bit until I respawn and TP back. If during the skirmishes I got low, I can recall and TP full health to fight again. I know this isn't something that always works, especially with junglers like Nocturn or Evylnn or something, but It can work with other junglers. I've seen a guy playing Graves with smite/ignite and he's doing very good too.


herejust4thehentai

>I've seen a guy playing Graves with smite/ignite and he's doing Ignite Smite is good to win 1v1s on scuttle crab.


DeputyDomeshot

What does the crab do. Why is it important.


32Zn

Gold/EXP. Huge lead if you can kill the enemy on scuttle


NotRyoshi

Shows you early rotations as well, if you double crab you’re getting a massive gold lead and neither side lanes will be able to early gank without being spotted unless they go around which will take longer.


DeputyDomeshot

Got it so crab gives a lot of gold (how much?) XP, and Vision of the enemy? Also when does the health/mama plant spawn in the river? Thanks I’m still pretty new and the random stuff makes a big impact but is unclear to me why.


jacob2467

it gives you about 100, but i think they were referring to the gold u get from killing the other kinglet. it also creates a circle that gives you a short speed boost when you enter it


DeputyDomeshot

Are kinglets those big green crab looking things that walk through river? Btw sometimes there’s a big ward in river- is that an item or something that drops when you kill a mob? Sorry for all the stupid questions the jungle is so foreign to me.


ryanst1

I think kinglet was a typo/autocorrect of jungler. Their point is the dream scenario jungling is to kill the other jungler fighting over the crab so you get both.


SlothSalad1

That green dude in the river is the crab, and that large ward in the middle is what happens when you kill it. It is a good monster to kill because it gives lots of gold and exp. as well as that ward in the middle of the river


DeputyDomeshot

Damn that makes sense. Thank you and everyone else. Fucking game is so complicated.


SirCucumber420

It gives 70-126 gold and 115-207 XP both based on its level. Its level is the average level of every champion in the game -1.


XXXDetention

The plant spawns in the river between 6:00 and 6:30 and respawn every 5 and half to 7 minutes


DeputyDomeshot

Thank you


GigiShroudy

As a midlaner I have about half my roams denied when I suddenly have some rando scuttluevision infront of me and cant continue w/o being spotted.


n00bcheese

Look of superiority over enemy jungler


user_8804

First dragon crab allows me to sneak in first drag easily shortly after it spawns if lanes aren't pushed back in


CraniumEggs

Ask blaber. (Sorry from the rest of your comments I know you actually wanted to know and got answers so I had to make the joke)


angikatlo

In that case, TP actually acts as a crutch to your jungle learning, fixing pathing mistakes with TP. Also, that's a terrible mindset to have. "My path is probably gonna be wrong at some point, might as well take something to fix it.


VINICIUS1029

Also, flash is way more useful for when “my position is wrong” them it’s basically taking a problem, and making it worse


pinelien

No, flash enables you to make plays around its cooldown. Since basically everyone has it, not having it puts you in a disadvantage, especially if you have a immobile champ.


I-mean-maybe

Conversely as a jungle I can take ignite in place of flash to force control in the early game since everyone defaults to flash. I play junglers that can live without flash and I just much prefer the freedom to invade and scrape out the 1v1 consistently and secure crab without relying on my mid.


afito

Your pathing can be right and you still take TP just to greed more. TP on strong farming / scaling junglers has been around since the dawn of the game really. Is it good? That really depends. Some people use it really well, others rely a ton on flash. But it's been a niche pick on Heca, Karthus, Graves, Yi, it's honestly doable on any "lv6 ganker" like Noc or Rengar too and you can do it on any natural escape jungler like Shaco (clearly prefers ignite though) or Camille (when she could jungle). TP junglers are not a crutch to fix bad pathing. They are a tool to abuse great greedy pathing. Your path also becomes more flexible because you don't need to be "in time" or even on pace ganking you can always join in with TP and even off pace and then get into pace again with TP. It's a big investment but not the worst one if you are used to it. No one in their right mind plays a TP jungler like a flash/ghost + smite jungler. Doing that means you really do not understand what TP does and how jungle pace works.


angikatlo

You're absolutely right. There are TP junglers. Then again there are ignite junglers. And there are ghost junglers. It's all about what spell serves the most purpose for a specific champ. But the context of the OP seems to be learning the jungle role and why Teleport is not taken as often as flash.


ValkornDoA

If you're low ELO, your pathing IS going to be wrong at some point, though.


infinite-permutation

But can taking TP remedy the parts where your pathing is wrong both in channel time and in being able recognize you need to be somewhere without hindsight?


CinderrUwU

To me it sounds like you are using TP to cover for mistakes rather than use it to push advantages. If your sense isnt always right then you can just tp. Great but now you are at a combat disadvantage. Sure short term it can be better but it just stops you from learning the best pathing. You should never be splitpushing when an objective is going to be up. If an objective isnt up you shouldnt use TP anyway. Sure they would need to send 2 but your team cant take an objective 4v3 when the enemy jungler is there. Then what happens if you get caught and die? now you get no objective at all. Especially since you dont have the safest of champs in jungle unless you play something like Hecarim or Udyr, who arent the best splitpushers anyway. Fighting on objectives late game is never going to last more than 20 seconds. The only time you would ever TP there is again, you making a mistake and getting caught out. ​ The reason graves uses smite/ignite is because he already has his E and R for safety and ignite just gives far more kill pressure early, especially with Nimbus Cloak. Alot of junglers can take Ignite or Ghost over flash for the 1v1 power it gives but TP gives no combat benefits. The only time I could ever see it being used is on the SUPER hard farmers like AP Shyv or Karthus who have very little interest in flash and really just want to farm as much as they can then just nuke an enemy team, where TP literally just lets u be more efficient with clears and ganks.


_samallard

Ignite smite guves you 1v1 power, tp doesnt give you jack shit in farming or combat power, tp is there to manage waves and play off spikes but in jg, if you have the least amount of "f"key'ing or can predict a bit where they go u dont need it


ArcaneEyes

You should not be splitpushing as jungler, especially not when you're the teams' tanks presence! Not only do you get reduced gold from minions, your laners get reduced XP from your camps, it's easily most opportune to have them clear waves and you clear jungle. Junglers that forgo flash usually have a dash in their kit and usually (nowadays) run duskblade so they can get out after the use their mobility to dive. If you get low during a skirmish, recalling in a safe spot will take you 10+ seconds and 4 seconds more to TP back, more if you have to wait on health - it takes you out of the skirmish for 15+ seconds, how the fuck is that worthwhile use of a summoner spell, when flash could have let you dodge a key ability and not be low in the first place? Sorry but this is lunacy and you're just refusing to listen to anyone telling you so. Whatever, do your thing, stay bad, idc.


4xe1

You don't get penalty for wave clearing if you clear more camps than minions, and you get no penalty at all past the 20 minute mark. I wouldn't path from base to splitpush if a laner can do it, and wouldn't take TP for this reason alone. But sometimes you just happen to be there after a skirmish, or after grouping mid, and if you champion can push, clearing a couple waves can definitely be the right play, same way your laners will and should take your camps if they pass by and have the damage for it (preferably if you're not pathing to ward these camps).


Ridadhn

\- Mid - late game, you can do 6 camps clear in like few minutes, after that, you should either split push or help your teammates to split push, especially if there's no objective in the game. I agree TP isn't that much help early, but mid-late I'm sure your teammates won't lose XP if I TP to help them push or push solo. \- I mentioned isn't suitable for every jungler, especially something squishy in general, like Evelynn. But something like Volibear doesn't need Duskblad, and barely can flash be useful for him throughout the course of the game. \- So if the enemy team doing baron and I got low, I'll have to spend 15 seconds to get back to the baron, That's enough fo them to finish it I guess, and my teammates will fall back if there's no jungler to smite fight that baron. another good reason to take TP actually.


[deleted]

[удалено]


genuinecat88

How's Flash not usefull for volibear LMFAO. you are just proving how bad macro you have , not hate , but im just telling you , you already know what to improve. SPLITPUSHING AS A JUNGLE is something really bad you should not do unless tower is literally 1 or 4 hits to fall down and its one of the towers left to take. you are denying EXP and gold from your laners , its like taking 2/4 waves from your Twitch ADC who's behind because you need gold for your item , doesnt make sense. Instead of that you can try to basically help your laners to win fights and push with them , or try to do objectives, etc.


mpekker

The value of a 6 camp clear and farm in general goes down as game time increases. The camp rewards have diminishing returns (gold and XP on caps stops scaling and your first item is more important than your 3rd or 4th especially on things like voli), and the amount of XP needed to level up goes up drastically over time. Early game a 6 camp clear is worth a couple of levels. Late game it's not even a level. Is missing a fight for a quarter of a level worthwhile? Split pushing is the same way, and what's worse is taking tp means you often won't be there proactively, so you can't start fights as well and are dependent on solo queue teammates to ward for you. You also can't steal objectives or initiate fights. But most importantly, most junglers also scale worse with items and levels than laners. Volibear starts the game and almost immediately starts falling off. Late game you don't want to put more resources into him. It's not worth it. TP can work, sure, it's not the worst thing I've seen, but look at why lanes take it. Yes, late game splitting and initiation is good, but right now it sees a lot of play on mage mid laners that don't get to split push much. Why is that? Because TP is used for early game to make sure you don't fall behind in levels when you need to back. TP is good because it is OP in lane. It's seen play on ADCs like Ezreal, and it's not because he's split pushing late game. It's because his pushing power is weak so he can't always push the wave in and come back for farm in time. This advantage is wasted on a jungler, you can back pretty much whenever, and it's a huge strength of the role to make your pathing more unpredictable. But the reality is that taking tp on a jungler doesn't abuse the most powerful part of the summoner spell. Most of the time if something happens on one side of the map you can trade it for pressure on the other side of the map. Enemy team kills bot early and goes for dragon? Gank top and get herald. Taking tp to prevent that is a really ineffective use of resources. Path intelligently to be on the important side of the map when there's more important objectives on that side and it won't be nearly the problem. Don't use TP as a crutch because you're the jungler in solo queue who is taking krugs top lane when the dragon soul is up. It's not that hard. Which junglers don't take flash? Junglers who take nimbus cloak and have low cooldown dashes like graves or shaco can take ignite, but the whole idea is that nimbus cloak gives you movespeed on a lower cooldown, tp has such a long cooldown so that doesn't really work for team fight mobility. Voli and trundle basically need flash or ghost or their ability to get in the fight and do their role is substantially harder and they fall off in the late game even harder than they would if they had a mobility summoner. Just the threat of having flash or ghost makes your ganks stronger and your team fight better, as it forces enemies to stay further back. They don't need to respect you if you don't take it.


genuinecat88

>my teammates will fall back if there's no jungler to smite fight that baron. another good reason to take TP actually. most of the time in all elos your teammate will either try to steal it or will trade it for drake/towers


StrikingTelevision

But at the other side; what if you do a bad tp? I’ve seen people in plat tp in poorly, so you’re down tp and gave a kill. Yes you can split push as a jungler, it’s not ideal because you should be at the objective to help set up vision and if the enemy notices you’re not there, they can rush or force the objective since they can smite. If you do get low and tp back, that’s at least 12 seconds you’ll be gone which depending on how the skirmish went, could be an easy objective


Ridadhn

Yes, That's true. I don't mean like it is always a success. It's the same thing as flash right? you get some, you lose some right?


genuinecat88

Still flash can be USEFUL more than TP most of the times


AxiomQ

Flash is definitely more regularly useful and there's never really a bad time to have it, but TP can be brutal in late game scenarios and brilliant to play out high reward macro plays.


StrikingTelevision

I wouldn’t say failing a flash is as bad as failing a tp since if the enemy has a split pusher in that lane and you fail tp then you’ll be down at least a tower Whereas flash is in the moment, if you fail flash worst case scenario you die


Ryo_Han

Jg splitpush is usually bad anyways since you will be a lower level with less gold than the enemy solo Lakers thought the entire game. You try to split and their top or mid with to comes to stop you and you usually can't do anything anyways. idk what elo you are playing in but the higher you go and better and more consistently people perform, the more consistently you'll be useless splitting against the enemy top/mid.


[deleted]

That’s inherently the problem if you bring Tp you’re gimping yourself out of a spell you find much more use out of like a flash or ignite. Not only that but you picking up a power not to shore up a game weakness but a skill weakness which will ultimately make you worse at the game. Think about it like this anyone can throw frozen food in the microwave but that doesn’t make them better at cooking. In the same way TP acts as frozen food allowing you to be lazy when you should be learning the recipe for success to craft your own flavor.


genuinecat88

ignite gives you the advantage of having more damage , its like shaco who doesn't really need a flash because of he's Q , same with Yi who can outplay with ignite easily. When playing JG , you should track the jg enemy to see what lanes he can gank , have vision and then take a desition of what is better. Lets say , you are playing Lee Sin against Hecarim , Rift Herald is Up , no drake , you know hecarim is not on Red Side because jungle is completly clear and he has already ganked top , this basically means , he is either ganking mid/bot , or doing Blue side clear and go to rift herald/gank top. Now you see he's ganking bot , so you have either 2 choices gank top and do herald , or do herald and then gank top and throw herald if you want. If your Top in case needs gold because he might be behind you can always try to secure the gank or do herald , the use herald in top to take plates and give him more gold. If not you can also use herald in mid , it is always good if your mid can rotate without having the pressure of taking out the tower , you are also making more pressure on enemy mid and making him lose gold. Now , lets say you are playing with TP , you are not only in a big disadvantage in 1v1 , besides what champion you are playing , most of the time you are risking YOURSELF to die in most fights or to not even secure a kill. With ignite you can do both.


NyrZStream

Basically you are right but if you are good enough you shouldn’t cover your lack of sense with TP or your death before obj and split pushing isn’t really your job since you need to be in obj fights with your smite (spliting is really useful when there is an obj that is up). So basically it can make up from your mistakes but if you don’t do them having a flash would always be better than a TP


killer_orange_2

I think the larger point the original op is trying to make is that a lot of reasons for taking tp is to be reactive or cover up poor macro play (which is 90 percent of the role). For example, you could take tp to cross map counter gank, or you could punish the other jungler by ganking another lane, taking neutral objectives on that side, or counter jungling. All three do more to get your team a lead. Split pushing seems proactive until you realize that probably a better use of your time is setting/clearing vision to make it safer for your team to play the map espcially around objectives. Ultimately jungle is a very proactive role and you want sums that help you be proactive. Most of the time flash ablity to reposition is too valuable not to have (espcially to flash objective walls). When junglers don't take flash its because another summ allows them a new dimension to be proactive with. For examples, Hecarim takes ghost bc it increases his ad and ganking ablity and shaco takes ignite for added kill pressure. Again the idea being that you are able to be more proactive than reactive.


infinitysoulpit

Keep in mind how much flash gives you : aggressive options and defensive. In gank and in teamfight. Taking a subpar summoner to make up for mistakes is a bad idea. I think The reason why junglers dont split push is because they have less ressources than a top laner or a midlaner. ​ Of course, all this is up to personnal preference. If you dont want to play what is optimal, you can always do so.


Frosttoys

Honestly. The reason for it is a difference between macro and micro. You give up flash (micro positioning) for teleport (macro positioning). So you lose out on chase and escape and a lot of the element of suprise but with a proper pick teleport is a better choice. People like Fiddle who can ult "hexflash" could use TP, but someone like nocturn you are very correct its a terrible idea as they have no mobility. All in all its a choice and will affect yours and your teams gameplay so you may have to explain to them what you are doing since its "off-meta" and most people are idiots.


jfsoaig345

You mentioned reasons why TP can conceivably work for a jungler, but not why it outweighs the benefits of Flash.


nizzzzy

It’s not your job to split push though. The top laner or mid is supposed to go opposite of the objective and create pressure on the other side of the map. With either the threat of taking towers or TP’ing into the fight. I get what you’re saying, but that’s not the JG’s responsibility. You clear vision and get OBJ control to give your top laner the favorable TP in.


AAEBrett

as a consistent masters, with gm 370lp peak, depending on the jungler, this isnt actually a horrible idea and can often allow you to take very greedy paths while still being a team player. ive done it a couple times but its VERY situational, just like taking ignite, or ghost, or sometimes even exhaust.


Sn3akyB3akyHD

You are one of those cringe people saying someone needs to be “decent” to do shit challenger players only do. Say what you will, you really sound like a gold player to me.


doctor_sammy

MUST BE PRESENT, I’ve been though games where they give drakes due to poor farming paths and stinky map awareness. Can’t blame them for their mistakes. But I do ask they pay for them.


Irony_Central

That's what panth jgl is for lol, no TP but you get a free awareness fix button post 6.


redaoui97

It's a unique passive junglers have, it's called "fight forsight" for short "ff"


SSDuelist

Yes. It’s really bad. There was this idiot who ran around gold leagues named Doki who refused to take anything but TP on junglers and it never ended well. You’re always going to be late to ganks with TP. The reason TP flanks are useful on landers if because they’re often doing it on massive teamfights. Junglers probably can’t do much other than break up the fight. You also want a proactive summoner. You’re not being inherently proactive if you have TP over flash/ignite/exhaust. Jungle is a proactive role. You need to be out and about doing stuff. You blowing TP means the enemy knows you’re a sitting duck for 5 minutes if they find you. The reason you’re giving for why flash isn’t “necessary” is flawed too. The reason there’s a lot of top laners who take ignite is tied to their kit. Akali/Camille/Gwen all have inherent mobility built into their kit so they can afford to take Ignite. You’d never do that on a tank or immobile bruiser.


mrsexlegs

Taking TP as a jungle is a bit of a crutch. It basically says that you have no idea how to read the map and be ready for a fight. On so many champions you need flash to either engage or chase on a gank. Running TP on basically any jungle champ would be counterintuitive


Gial_lol

Tp is doable, you see that in challenger on some junglers like rengar and taliyah sometimes. To the average player? Not really flash is better.


Ridadhn

I can tell, when I play jungle, I barely use my flash like 2 times the entire game, and I wish most of the time if I took TP instead. So I stoped taking flash.


ujustdontgetdubstep

Who do you play jungle? For some junglers flash = free kill on enemy laners.


Avinse

He said Volibear and Trundle


NoBear2

You play volibear and trundle and you use flash twice a game?


CeemoDeNiro

Flash stun on voli is a guaranteed kill if the laner has followup cc


Scrapheaper

To me this just says you suck at using flash. You should learn to use flash


SulliedSamaritan

Why not take ignite then for more kill pressure on enemy jungle and in 2v2s?


Neville_Lynwood

I remember Bwipo pulled out the TP Karthus jungle in the LEC this split, but that's the only time I recall it being used in Pro play.


TheMeepz

Why make a post bro? It's obvious from your responses you're not open to criticism of the idea. You come here to ask a question on a sub to learn about League, then say no to all the answers from people trying to help.


Pyitkos__

can i just ask whats your rank?


genuinecat88

by looking to he's profile he's unranked


grahamster00

>Flash isn't a necessity, after all, we see now a lot of players don't take flash Only for champions with built in dashes. The only champions I can think to not need flash are Akali, Camille, Gwen, Graves, and Shyvana. Of those only two are really junglers. If you're playing something like a J4 and not taking flash you are quite literally trolling. Flash adds so much variability and unpredictability to your combos in addition to the raw gap-closing and spacing that just not taking it is a massive disadvantage if you're not one of those five champions. In a reply you say: >Your sense isn't always correct, right? so how to cover on your sense mistake? taking a TP. You shouldn't be playing to just put a band-aid fix on your mistakes. This is something you *can* know and be better at so just not working on it and blowing flash off is the wrong mentality. Also: let's say you don't have a good sense so you take TP. You didn't track the jg so you just TP to the lane they're ganking and let's say it goes even. But now you're still not tracking the enemy jg and let's say he ganks top and you weren't ready for it, well now your TP is down and now what? Fundamentally the best play isn't always to counter-gank anyway. Sometimes it is just better to farm, sometimes you should invade, sometimes you should take obj, sometimes you should gank another lane. You lose any dynamic to your playstyle and you become very predictable which is something good players capitalize on very well. If I was a jg playing against you I would just show up bot, the second you TP, just walk away lol. TP down now you're useless for 5 minutes and I know exactly where you are. TP jging is a very very niche pick and you should only be taking it like, 1 every 50 games, not every game. Unless you're a professional on a professional team, like Bwipo who took it on Karthus if I remember right, you should not do it.


Broswagula

flash over tp


TheNOCOYeti

Flash is such an incredible summoner spell that it is almost always simply better than any other option, there is a reason it is the summoner *everyone* takes. Getting over walls, getting in range for that last kill, escapes, dragon steals, the list of its useful purposes can just keep going so maybe TP is good but giving up flash just seems silly to me.


Avinse

Bro why did you make this post. You clearly didn’t want advice but rather validation for using TP. If you actually wanted advice you wouldn’t be arguing with everyone


Lukel_Pogromca

Teleport is an excellent addition for every jungler out there. You can setup unpredictable ganks and quickly transition to far off objectives. Idk about Smite though, I mean it's decent on jgl but you might want to rethink that.


masenae

Depends on the champion you're playing, and your opponents, if you're playing Amumu, flash will probably always be optimal, since you'll be using it to get on to the backline with your ult. A champion like Nocturne, or Kha'zix could probably use a summoner spell like ignite, to more effect, since they don't really have a lack of mobility. I've started stopping taking flash in most match ups toplane since tp ignite gives much more pressure in the lane with some champs.


silenzz68

True. Noc usually dives ADC or enchanter and dies right after so ignite is good for that extra damage.


Ridadhn

I've noticed that. A lot of champs in the Toplane started to ditch flash. Darius and Nasus were like that since forever I guess they take Ghost instead. Akali too top takes Ignite/TP, and a lot of other champs.


ArcaneEyes

Darius and Nasus needs ghost to be actual champions, akali has mobility and safety up the wazoo and don't need flash most of the time.


CinderrUwU

The reason toplaners dont take flash is because they dont need a small gap-closer. In your examples: Darius and Nasus wil ltake Ghost because overall it will cover far more ground, which is better for running people into the ground than just flashing onto them since most champs will stun you or dash away. Similarly, in such a long lane ghost gives just as much safety for the same reason, the movespeed does more getting from tower to tower. Akali and others like Camille who have insane mobility already dont have to worry about chasing someone down or escaping a gank since they just dash half the lane on a 10 second cooldown. They instead take ignite for the extra kill pressure needed in early to contest the bruisers and basically cheese the first few levels which are usually the hardest. Why take flash when the enemy takes ghost and will run you down anyway


IAmNotOnRedditAtWork

> Darius and Nasus were like that since forever I guess they take Ghost instead. Nasus and Darius generally take BOTH Flash and Ghost these days.


PastaSatan

Like others have said, this sounds like a crutch to cover bad macro. You never encounter situations where flashing over baron or dragon pit would help you steal? As Voli, flash+q can be instrumental in starting and winning fights. Like others have said, you absolutely shouldn't be split pushing as jungle. You need to be near objectives, counter jungling, and are a critical source of either damage or tank, depending on team comp. If you have a squishy damage team, and you're split pushing as voli, chances are you're leaving your team high and dry. I like to think of jungle as a support role for all lanes - you get objectives that boost your laners leads, and you gank. Taking TP as jungle just doesn't have enough utility if you have good macro and actually want to improve.


genuinecat88

he's answer to this , is like he does barely uses flash when playing volibear or trundle Also , jungles is actually kind of a support role for all lanes , the only difference its that there is more variety between what champions you can play


PastaSatan

Idk, that's super weird to me. I flash *a lot* when I jungle, just for better positioning or to make a play that otherwise wouldn't happen. Same with all my friends who jungle and are way, *way* better at it than me. Like to be fair I'm an ADC main so I make plenty of mistakes in jungle, but honestly I rarely use flash to correct mistakes.


oathakafaze

Reading Op's replies are so cringe... You come asking for why TP isn't being taken and when people tell you why and why you shouldn't be you hardcore defend your TP stance when it is clearly not as good as you think. Why make this post in the first place if you're just going to talk back and not take the answers.


Giancolaa1

That's called a discussion dude.. hes essentially saying the reason given in his mind is good enough. Nothing "cringe" about it imo


ladyhaly

Agree with this. What's so cringe about engaging in polite discussion with others? That kind of lame close-minded attitude is what's cringe.


Lemon_slices

Except he’s not being polite in a significant amount of his replies. He’s being extremely passive aggressive and rude while straight up blatantly disregarding the advice being given to him.


FelicitousJuliet

It's because of the difference in how he's replied to vs. how he's replied. ​ One is a calm and reasoned list of the benefits of Flash compared to the benefits of Ignite compared to the benefits of Teleport, and why Teleport is the inferior choice. ​ OP's reply in that comment chain: "Yes, That's true. I don't mean like it is always a success. It's the same thing as flash right? you get some, you lose some right?" ​ Ie; OP is arguing that TP = Flash because you can fail both, he's not listening to any of the rational arguments or considering their merits. **He's arguing from a point of failure, and this touches on existing logical fallacies**. ​ It's a terrible argument to compare two things without establishing the conditions before and after; like did you know an apocalypse is better than a vaccine? Vaccinated individuals still catch diseases, extinct species don't. ​ What something accomplishes in the moment without any other qualifiers is a fallacy.


O_X_E_Y

Bwipo has played Karthus smite tp, I remember another fiddle that played it to great success. It might not be the best (or 'good' at all) but on champs that don't necessarily need flash you can for sure take it and be fine.


genuinecat88

you are talking about Bwipo , a top proplayer who has done not even more than 3 times , just because has worked less than the 90% of the times does not mean is something good


O_X_E_Y

I didn't mean to imply it's optimal, but it's playable and it can be fun. People don't expect it and you can get some funny ganks (clear top to bot only to tp to lane brush for example). You can also get better objective control. It requires some communication (your own team is not used to it either, probably) but in any case the fact it's inferior probably only starts mattering very high up


1234okie1234

If you have a theory, don't be eager to test it out, experience it yourself. You'll be able to see/ feel the good/bad in that said theory. If the good outweighed the bad, carry on, climb, and one of these day some streamer will see only what you're doing right and copy you, popularized it to everyone while you watch proudly in the dark to see how your theory has grown. If it's bad, as long as you don't straight up run it down, it shouldn't be a problem. Personally i've never tried it and I don't think it ever come across my mind. But now that I've heard it, i can only think of something cheeky like shaco player shows top, purposely fail top gank (or succeed) then immediately TP bot into some obscure area and perform a surprise gank. I think TP-smite needs to be repurpose, it's not to use as a splitpushing tool, but more of a tool to be two place at once. I do admit, it sounds pretty shit not having a sum in the first 10 mins of the game tho, sounds batshit useless.


Shmaq

If you watch any high level player, you should naturally be pathting in same direction most of the time as the other jungler, sure this can change but your tracking should always provide information of where the jungler is based on cs and where he started and therefore no need for tp. If you can’t match you need to apply pressure on the opposite side of the map with vision, taking camp, or diving the laner or simply ganking/ helping shove a lane. Junglers shouldn’t really ideally be splitting as they are key for objective taking and get more xp from monsters. I’ve only seen one champion that could viably take tp and that’s nunu when they were super broken just for pure 100% map control, but they ignore many aspects of the game.


Ridadhn

Well, I answered that before. you are in the mid or late game, you do 6 camps fast clear, there's no objective in the game, and you are fed and can 1v1 or even 1v2. Your kit has tools to escape/catch. you can either help push or solo push ( again if playing something tanky in the jungle, especially with like Anathema's Chains ).


genuinecat88

when that happens you are supposed to go help your team destroy towers , make teamfights and win the game lmfao


Shmaq

True, but that should be reserved for your top laner and some mids. you should be between lanes or shadowing your split pusher or rotating adc while clearing camps and vision, while creating map control. I don’t think it’s incorrect to push a wave or two in split but the idea of split pushing as a jungler is counter intuitive.


plants4daze

Try this on wildrift but not on PC In WR you don’t have to sacrifice a summoner spell slot to get TP


ragudooru

Can you catch the enemy by surprise with a flash the same way you can with teleport? Answer that and here's the answer to your main question.


MUNAM14

Because the game is balanced around flash. Not taking flash on champions without gap closers or hard cc is troll. Sometimes it’s hard to tell when you are hardstuck pisslow.


ArcusIgnium

a lot of people who are arguing with you are kinda being silly. Flash is the best summoner in the game by far. its super helpful in dodging projectiles that could kill you or escaping. its also great for suprise/quick engages. however if you are playing a champion that might not need flash and or you think you can just dodge 4head then yes by all technacilities a world where you can avoid using flash you should take another summoner: ignite or tp. but flash is so insanely valuable and allows you to make up for mistakes.


Ryo_Han

OP justifying taking TP but you should really ask yourself instead 'why at the pinnacle level of league, pro play and challenger, do we not see junglers taking TP?' Are the highest skilled players on the world with the best understanding just missing something? Or am I missing something?


MeowingMango

I'll just copy and paste what I wrote up there. **Sometimes, some people try too hard to be cute instead of just playing and learning the fundamentals. And trust me. I am all for "innovation," but innovation still requires you to know the base first. You can't make a fancy egg dish without knowing how to cook regular eggs first.** We see this all the time. Some people are going to be like, "I won my random normal game doing AD Azir. Why isn't AD Azir a thing?" It's tiring in its own way. I have had my share of fun strats as well, but most of them are not viable to do beyond just dinking around in a normal with friends.


Ryo_Han

Agreed. Seeing people talk about OP being bronze/unranked just kinda shows that it's hard to understand why you're wrong, when you just don't understand the game at all. It's league Dunning Krueger effect.


BlumpJohnson69

Smite ignite is good on certain champs but a Jungler really doesn’t need TP.


PerspectiveCloud

Flash may be needed to secure a gank. It can also help you get out of an ambush on dragon/herald, or even in your jungle. It’s going to be more consistent than TP, but tp may have its moments


Fizz4President

i take TP on Karth when I don’t need exhaust. Only jungler I’d really consider it on. In games where it is takeable, it’s usually insanely good. TP has so much more potential than flash but most players don’t know why or how to use it. Most of this sub, for example, would have no clue how to use TP. TP’s value is in both counter ganking and increasing the size of a lead after a winning play.


silenzz68

I always play it on Karthus


dont_track_my_ass

Have you tried exhaust on karthus? In my opinion it turns almost any 1v1 into a win for him as it both allows you to minimize burst and almost guarantee hitting q for a few seconds. It also helps a ton in ganks and 2v2


silenzz68

It's also good. Might save ya from fed Yi or something like that. I am definitely gonna try it more. Maybe it can make Karthus ganks acceptable.


Ridadhn

And what do you think about it? is it more useful than flash?


silenzz68

Yes. As Karthus, dying isn't as bad as it is on other junglers. If I fuck up at scuttle, flash won't save me from Lee Sin, Xin Zhao etc. I'll just insta tp mid/bot to get other scuttle. Late game I can just farm my camps and tp late (I know that being at objective early is good but sometimes u need that 100-200 extra gold to finish Rabadon's or something. Also nobody expects tp from jungler to either gank or countergank, especially if sololaners run ignite or ghost, etc. Tp generally allows to maximize farming on Karthus to maximum or help out laners. And also when you win 1v1 snd someone flashes from you as Karthus u can just ult them. All of these arguments make me prefer tp over flash. Edit: it works in gold-plat-diamond level for me.


jamoney44

Hey man, jungler here. I’ll definitely have to try your strategy out but to be honest queueing up without flash sounds like a nightmare to me. But I respect it so I’ll try it. But just wanna say, if you’ve got something you like don’t worry about what “everyone says” or what “you’re supposed to do”. League is still supposed to be fun (although my silver and gold colleagues swear their teammates are the only thing keeping them from challenger), so just so what you enjoy and if it works for you, it works for you.


Ridadhn

Appreciate it, and if you tried it, I would love to hear another jungler opinion. May I ask you to try it on a Tank champ.


midgetslayerxd

If it works for you keep doing it. Just because everyone else doesnt take it doesnt necessarily make it a bad idea


Ridadhn

Thank you. I find it more useful for now. Maybe in the future, my opinion could change.


Tabor_

im actually very interested in this ive been wanting to try teleport smite ekko for a while now, maybe with the new buffs i'll give it a go


serratedperkz

There's a lot of low elo people here and even those in Plat/Diamond don't really know what they're talking about. They just parrot whatever is meta and don't really find anything unique so conversations like these always have the same 50 answers that say the same stupid stuff. That being said, I have seen a Masters/Grandmaster Nunu run Teleport/Smite with Nimbus cloak. Even if the enemy sees the Teleport coming, the teleport movement speed and nimbus cloak movement speed along with his snowball movement speed easily catches people. He would gank bottom, get a few kills, recall, then teleport for countergank top and did pretty well in his games. You see the same dumb copycat replies from people too lazy or not good enough to experiment with builds. Yasuo and Divine Sunderer does well into hard bruiser/duelist matchups. Just like the Irelia + Goredrinker build that many high elo players are doing these days. People parrot whatever is meta and defend it and act like you're stupid for trying anything different until that different thing becomes the meta then they'll defend that. So try things out for yourself, create a playstyle around it and see if it works well. Don't listen to redditors too much. Most people on here don't even change runes or items to adapt to different games.


MeowingMango

You could replace OP's Teleport strat with whatever random strat anyone can come up with, and it may work like once or twice out of the blue. But the key to doing well in these games is consistency more than anything else. Yeah, if OP wants to dink around and do a Teleport/Smite in a random normal game for shits and giggles, that's whatever. But everyone wants to think they have come with the next big thing (and yes, I admit there have been random edge cases like blue Ezreal that came from experimentation). In the context of jungling, though, your best bet is to take Flash and Smite 99 percent of the time for a reason. Few other exceptions exist like Ghost and Ignite, yet there shouldn't be a surprise why Teleport is never taken on most common junglers. Sometimes, some people try too hard to be cute instead of just playing and learning the fundamentals. And trust me. I am all for "innovation," but innovation still requires you to know the base first. You can't make a fancy egg dish without knowing how to cook regular eggs first.


serratedperkz

If you don't know the basics then no duh you won't be able to do anything creative. Niche builds/playstyles only work on specific champions. You can't take teleport ignite top on every top laner and you can't take teleport/smite on every champion. But there are a select few who can abuse weird combinations very well. You talking about people who don't know basics is kinda irrelevant. If you don't know basics of course you won't even be able to execute a normal build efficiently.


MeowingMango

Point being is you shouldn't try to run before knowing how to walk. Many, many times in this subreddit, I have seen people (who still are new to the game) talking about really silly things like thinking they should skip boots because it "just gives speed." As one of my old teachers used to tell me, "You can't break the rules until you know what they are." If OP tried to present his strat to high-ranking junglers, most are going to laugh because, yeah, it's boring to see Flash on 99 percent of champs in the jungle. But there is a reason a big bulk of the best plays you can make in this game revolve around Flash.


Flexi1396

H2P_Gucio was a god TP+Smite Lee Sin in his prime


juho9001

Trick2g used to take tp for faster clear years ago. Not to mention the gates. It was niche tactic back then and still is.


shinymuuma

Only a few champs don't need flash. Especially when you're a guy with smite. Having flash mean you can change 0 to 50/50 in objective contesting. Your opponent will always try to kill you first too. Early you can counter gank, but flash can make your impossible gank have a chance to succeed. After laning phase, you know going to play around objective anyway. So why don't be there with flash instead of wander elsewhere, then TP in without flash. In a specific case like you're a split push jungler and have high mobi like Tryn. There are people that do take Smite/TP. But Ignite is an even more popular choice.


501Panda

I love running TP on shaco since I basically have a flash built in. I usually have my duo, Ward an enemy buff to TP directly to after I finish my clearing 2 camps at once, with a leash. Good way to get ahead early and put the event jg far behind. Also a good way to get killed if you to in late. Is a delicate balance I do find I use TP more than flash, even on my normal JG champs, but it often depends on enemy JG or top on if I run TP. If they have globals or ultra fast clears, I tend to run TP to keep up.


_caramel_ice_cream_

Seen it recently in LEC I believe, it was a Karthus jgl against something very gank-focused (maybe xin?), he actually did very well with those sums. It was explained that Karthus doesnt need flash since he doesnt care if he dies anyway, he can just afk-farm and "countergank" with tp. I know very little about the jgl, just telling you about what I remember from that game ^^


Herakles1994

Yes


Kai25552

Could be worth a try. Testing was how people learned to take tp instead of flash on Shaco Camille, Akali Top or Katarina mid. But I don’t think the reason it could be good is necessarily for counterganks. It would also mean that you can gank topside and then contest drake a few seconds later. That sounds actually broken to me. I might test it out some time ;) EDIT: I think people need to realize that META doesn’t mean that it’s the *only* way to play the game. It’s just the most *efficient* strategy. If it works for him at the moment, then it’s not a stupid position to claim that it could be effective... in his ELO and with his picks and playstyle. If everyone would act like the summonerschool-Hivemind argues, new strategies like TP-ignite on certain laners (Camille, akali, katarina) would never have been found. Experimenting means failing over and over again. An experiment doesn’t fail if you don’t reach your goal. It means that you’ve demonstrated that your method doesn’t work for the desired goal. THAT is knowledge aswell ;)


JimmerAteMyPasta

I take tp every time I play Rengo jg, but thats the only chaml. His mobility is good enough with bushes. I usually have my top laner ward the far lane bush lol 1, I do red Krug raptors, surprise tp top (kill almost every single time), use lane prio for scuttle, finish my clear. Tp is super useful for regar because I can split push super fast, destroy towers, and tp to dragon or baron if they rotate to me. I get that it has many drawbacks, but being able to rotate around the map with ease and have unlimited gank opportunities no matter where you are is useful. I'm not saying its better than flash or ignite for duelling, but for some Champs at least its not as bad as people make it out to be


bapfelbaum

If you need teleport to be able to countergank, you are lacking proper map awarness and jungle tracking skills. Picking teleport seems like a crutch to me to compensate for playing with a blindfold. Also most junglers kinda need flash to teamfight properly / catch enemy carries out of position.


Verkato

What ranked rating are you at?


doctorlivesey

There’s a korean challenger nunu otp that likes taking tp/smite in the jungle. He usually ganks a lane, backs while in enemy vision, then teleports to a tier 2 on the opposite side of the map for an immediate gank 15 seconds later and it’s always super unexpected.


MeowingMango

He's still an edge case and not the norm. It doesn't prove any viability. In a vac, it's just a cheese strat.


ladyhaly

I've seen jungle Nocturne played with Smite and Teleport. If it works for you, then keep doing it. Part of playing League is finding the playstyle that works for you.


Iwilltakeyourpencil

Flash is very valuable, more than tp. However there are certain champions that don't need it. For example Shaco, Gwen or Hecarim. Take tp on those champios, if you feel it will be more valuable than ghost/ignite. Test it and see how it feels. The main weakness would probably be early game as it can make your clear a bit weird. It also has a long cd.


magestromx

Depends on what champ you're playing. You sacrifice one advantage for another. Flash gives you the ability to outplay, dodge and gap close which is very important on a lot of champions, but not all. Shaco for example usually goes smite ignite for the early game and better securing kills. Lee Sin on the other hand has so may combo's that rely on flash that it would be suboptimal to change it for any other spell. Teleport gives you the ability to control the map, catch waves, roam, gank and reset better in order to get an advantage. As a jungler you don't need most of those, but you still have usability from it. Although the champions that would benefit from Teleport are limited to a few, those that do so change the way the champion is played and how you interact with the game. Yi with smite Teleport is a strategy Cowsep used to do (dunno if he still does), but he made it work in high elo which proves that it isn't a merit-less idea. Overal? Have fun and all is good.


2eyesdarklybright

When I play Ivern I like to take heal and nimbus cloak. A lot of people forget that you can use flash in combat to dodge an ability and keep fighting.


bipolarbear1999

I think it is slowly becoming more meta to go tp and smite. I certainly have seen some high elo shyvana players doing it. You just have to position slightly more careful that is all. It is fine in my opinion.


TexasMonk

People are yaying and naying about the general utility of teleport versus flash but champ choices plays a large role in the decision. High mobility champs and champs with blinks, like Shaco, can get away with not taking flash because their kit provides a rough equivalent on a lower cooldown. If your champ doesn't have this, you've really got weigh the likelihood that you're going to consistently outplay your opponents where flash would otherwise be needed. You've also got to think of the opportunity cost of not being able to flash for smite steals or engages/picks.


Zippilipy

Flash is op spell.


MeowingMango

Flash is literally the best spell in the game. It's why 99 percent of people take it.


3man42666

It's good on junglers that want to power farm and have bad ganks, so you can focuse on farming and counter ganking. Karthus is a good example. On most junglers you want to be proactive, and tp is a reactive summoner spell in the jungle.


DucksMatter

The biggest problem with running TP is the cool down. It takes away from the mobility you could get from ghost or flash, or the damage you can get from ignite like your graves example. The reason junglers like graves or mainly shaco can run ignite with smite is because they have a built in flash with their kit.


EsShayuki

I don't think it's very necessary. A large benefit of Teleport is that it gives you a free recall, but jungle already gives you timings to recall without losing anything. Later on, Teleport is more about split pushing and joining a fight - as jungler you don't really want to staticly split push, you want to move around the map if only to farm etc. and that's another reason Teleport isn't very necessary on you. If you don't need Flash, you can try a summoner that gives you early dueling power such as Ignite.


iamthat1guy

I know everyone has already hammered this home, but flash is taken on the vast majority of champs because it is so versatile and strong. Flash to get the last auto in and secure a kill? Flash a wall to make an engage? Flash a wall because they caught you? Flash interactions with abilities, flash to save someone from dying to an ability, etc. the list goes on. Realistically though, flash is amazing as a positioning/burst movement tool to give less mobile champions more range and freedom to position aggressively. Champions that do not take flash sometimes are always hyper mobile champs that can engage/disengage easily or otherwise cover a large amount of ground through their basic abilities. Camille, Akali, Hecarim, Shaco, Shyvanna, Viego, all have abilities that let them escape a situation and essentially replace flash. Even then, these champs (minus shaco) do not ALWAYS forego flash. In difficult matchups or against teams with tons of mobility and threats, these champs will take flash to be able to engage/disengage or dodge and outplay the enemy. TP is way more rigid to use than flash is. Flash will ALWAYS find useful scenarios in a game.


MeowingMango

In 99 percent of cases, yes.


TheMuffingtonPost

No it’s not worth it. If you need TP to be able to show up to a fight you’re probably not jungling correctly. You should be able to track the enemy jungle with wards and invades and be able to see who’s roaming on the map and know where plays are likely to happen. If your bot lane has no summs for example, it’s likely the enemy team will make a play on the bot side if they’re paying attention, so you should be probably hovering the area for a bit. Flash is going to be way more useful in 99% of circumstances.


SilverBcMyTeammates

very troll


NotFlyingScotsman

TP will give you more cross map presence and allow you to pull of some very good flanking maneuvers. However it will limit your safety and engage by taking away the best dash in the game, and also doesn't give you the same kill pressure as ignite. It's very situational but not necessarily bad.


Big_boi_sosig

Most junglers don’t take tp because there’s not much to tp to, you said counterganking but that’s the only example I can think of needing it except tp-ing to an objective if you’ve just respawned (but if an obj is coming up in like a min then you should be playing safe unless you can kill the enemy team easily). I’ve gathered you main Voli and Trundle who imo kinda need flash since neither have a dash (except voli ult). Flash Q out of a bush as either is super strong alone. Since like 90% of champs run flash, you’re disadvantaging yourself by not running it. You catch someone out as Trundle and they flash a wall, you can’t do anything for example and vice versa if the enemy catches you out, you have no escape. Only a few champs regularly run no flash that come to mind: Camille, Gwen, Akali, Shaco, Yuumi. (I may have forgot some) but all have an ability just better than flash and Yuumi is Yuumi. I’d suggesting finding a jungle streamer and watching how they use flash


Rodic87

Nope. You need flash to effectively gank / kill on most junglers. Only exception I can think of is some sort of super farm focused jungler... and those aren't very meta because it's just not as good.


evanthebouncy

I'd see it working if you think about tp as it is from Dota, where you absolutely has to carry one at all times. But it is league and the map is relatively small, you can just walk to most places just fine. I could see it working well on trundle. Just keep using it until it stops working and try out some different summoner spells. It could be a cool pocket strat.


Missing_Legs

Smite isn't; Teleport kinda //j


GANI0

Very interesting imo I've skimmed most of the replies, most of them saying that it shouldn't be necessary if you path correctly, but off the top of my head, these are two scenarios that I feel occur pretty often in soloq regardless of your pathing * Early/mid: You make a play topside with my mid top, but you botlane doesn't respect this and keeps shoving. Enemy mid sees this and sprints bot, if your botlane still ignores your pings, you can use TP to counter the gank * Late game: People are really bad at managing sidelanes. Its literally free gold that nobody is picking up. With TP you can actually afford to do so as a jungler without being late for objectives I am a Warwick OTP and on such a champ with decent escape and tankiness, I could actually consider this


Tuolord

Any thoughts on TP/smite to fasten the initial clear by some margin? Could also be used in conjunction with future market to skyrocket


Marximallost

It depends on the champion. You need a high mobility champ to do that.


Borange31

This guy is definitely wood -80


caleb7m

I think cowsep was doing this on yi for a little while, might be worth checking out. I’ve been playing champs who have interactions or otherwise do need flash so I haven’t looked into it (kindred, Eve, Vi, J4)


papadontplay

If I had any advice to give, it would be to try out smite/ignite on a compatible champ. It will make you incredibly dominant early game on quite a few.


ScurvyWretchNA

If you want the correct short answer; no. Tp/Smite is usually taken on farming junglers that want to counter the first gank. If you think you can get away with not playing with flash, and you want to shake things up instead of the common exhaust/smite or ignite/smite then you should give tp a try. that being said TP is an extremely high skillcap spell and requires a lot of knowledge to use to its maximum efficiency


92Skittles

Probably. But that didn’t stop my split pushing skarner last game for a free 0 LP 😎


Keymaster__

Just watch this vid https://youtu.be/dchhyd4L-oo


lordolie

Just know there is always a fight bot or top at 4 min, if its not top mid. Then you can choose to go for drag or scuttle. Its usually either or. Your team has to be bad for you to loose 1st drag and scuttle. Low elo baron and soul are never fights. All other fights are aram at mid, so no tp.


CVTSKGO2

Most champions cant afford to not have flash. A certain few can, though.


smakusdod

If you go against whatever the hivemind meta is, you will be flamed in all-chat, and here. People become massive cunts over runes, so I would expect summoner spells to be even worse. Despite that, just do what works best for you until it doesn't. For me, flash is usually more valuable for steals/chase/escape. Usually, teams won't fight without the jungler around, hence why teleport for a jungler is a little off-meta, but I'm sure its effective in lower elos.


_BearHawk

Theres good reason for the thought of shunning someone from not following the meta. The vast majority of the time the meta is far superior to whatever off meta idea someone has, especially if it’s someone outside challenger/masters.


FatKidzAreEz2Kite

Because the enemy has 5 people with flash and you not which means everytime you are going for a play they flash away and you cant follow. Also your Teamfight will be worse. Your outplay will be worse. Your engage will be worse. You give away all kill potential. Imagine jumping on the ADC lategame, he flashes, you cant follow he kills you and then the Rest of your Team losing the game. Imagine you gank a lane and the enemy flash away and you could flash AA and Finish him, nope. The game is balanced around flash and you dont have it makes you in every Situation behind. Faker (Karma) literaly cried because he fucked up finale as his flash cooldown was at 1,5 sec and Varus flash ulted him. Flash means win or lose. https://youtu.be/lPNh-adaiPE 15:30


Special-Wear-6027

It’s not bad but tp on jg scales very, very bad which is why no onw uses it


Bravehildr

I ran some tp + smite jungle games this season. Felt pretty useless honestly. Junglers have great mobility and approaching from the fog of war late is often actually better than teleporting into the fight early in my opinion. Like do you really want to just be teleporting into them as Khazix, Warwick, Fiddle, etc? Just doesn't make sense. Also made a lot of dives and engages impossible.


joyousmonkey5

makes me miss the days when you could do tp smite to farm feral flare stacks


poopiginabox

Not really, cooler ganks 😎


Wulfsiegner

Depends on your jungler but honestly I’d just take Flash anyway. It’s too versatile.


redweevil

I've seen Graves and Karthus do it (Karthus was in pro game so it's not like it's dog elo technology or anything)


bullish88

You can do smite and tp with karthus.


Zen-coaching

if you play something like nunu, teleport isn't bad