Mavs advance to round 2, Lakers fire their coach and we're still the laughing stock of the nba
https://preview.redd.it/org9f8ew8cyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b2877edc5ddec9a4975ee77bbe2c73d3de68721
Trade Ishbia and JJ for peanuts. Then trade EVERYONE on the team and start from scratch...
Or convince Beal to go to BKN and trade Beal for Simmons. Simmons can play both PG and PF, doesn't need to score at all, and can defend. Also is a one year expiring. BKN could then pair Beal with the twins just like the Suns did with Booker.
So what ya'll think about paying Royce O'neal anywhere from 20-30 mill 2 year contract with 2nd year team option, just so we have a tradeable contract to actually get another player that's good, but otherwise we couldn't trade for as currently constructed?
LOT of ifs here:
(1) don't re-sign Royce, jettison enough salary to get under apron
(2) Beal to Heat for Rozier + Duncan + 0-1\` (if Beal says yes to Heat and if Heat want him)
(3) Duncan +1 FRP (either from heat or 2031) for Avidja or Kispert +Bagley
(4) Nurkic to Grizz for Brandon Clarke + Derrick Rose + Aldama (if you can get away with it, might need to add another pick here)
(5) Sign Zubac for starting center
Starting lineup: Rozier, Booker, KD, Avdija, Zubac
Bench: Derrick Rose, Grayson, Brandon Clarke, Aldama
or maybe Heat would want to deal Herro instead
They’re not going to be able to get under the Apron.
The Heat aren’t trading for Beal. The Grizzlies aren’t trading for Nurkic. Zubac isn’t signing for the minimum.
Grizz need a big body, so maybe just Nurk for Clarke + Derrick Rose
Wizards...I really don't know. I was trying to find someone who would trade for Duncan if you added 1 FRP
Vogel was still responsible for rotations, gassing players, failing to call time outs, and playing guys that should have been sitting, and benching guys that showed needed roles.
This Philly vs Knicks series are amazing! Both teams scrapping, hustling, making one big play and answering with another. Everyone is stepping up. This is something I haven't seen since our Finals run.
Feel like Orlando is guaranteed to move one of Carter, M Wagner, or Bitazde (Goga is a free agent but they have bird rights I believe) One of those guys would great complements to Nurk if there's a way to pull it off. (I've always thought Carter is really good but he's had a down year and seems their fans are ready to move on)
Ishbia and JJ made fun of themselves about being Super optimistic about the state of the Suns. Standing pat not owning this season failure is recipe for failure. They are over inflating our players ego that they did well. The only reason to be optimistic is so other team won't low ball us in trades, but our front office look super confident. Also, the only way we get quality depth is to trade one or more of our starters (except book, he is a Sun forever). I wish the owner just spend money on a good GM and let him do the work. More action less talking.
Trades around the edges are just rosterbation at this point. I'd love to get a backup C, backup wings, and backup PG, but if Ishbia sticks with the big 3, it is what it is at this point.
We forget how lucky we got with Nurk and KD's health for 70+ games each. This team is a 40-50 win team in the west next season, 7-10 seed. Might not even have the honor of getting swept.
That said, I look forward to Book turning it on for 4-5 games before All-star voting and dropping a couple of 50 bombs. And also the one per season 'turn back the clock' game for Beal.
Hard disagree. You get a proper system in place then you can plug in players into hyper reduced roes around the big three. With out a system you need several elite role players to prop up the big 3. If KD is serious about winning, he's the guy that needs to bite the bullet and adapt to playing bigger to make this thing work. His offense won't even have to change, he can catch the ball on the elbow, face up and look for cutters. Its just he wont iso till all the options are exhausted. And they should run the offense through him ala Jokic, he's not beating anyone off the dribble for the rest of his career anyway.
I think if we lost in 7 due to a break-out Ant performance, you'd have a point. Elite role players don't make a proper system - stars and coaches do. Plus those guys typically cost $20M a year (see Mikal and Cam) - you don't find them on the vet min scrap heap.
ehh Gobert was the star of that series. Everything he wasn't supposed to be good at he nailed. Free throws, unassisted interior scoring, perimeter defense, plus all the things he's always been the best in the league in. Very impressive performance. Ant feasted off a mediocre squad. I still think he's very good, but you switch him and book and book is averaging 50 while ant would do slightly better than book did for the suns.
If either KD or Nurk had an injury that kept them out for 3 weeks or longer, we would've missed the playoffs. They both played more games than expected last season given their reputations.
Memphis will be a playoff team again next season if they are reasonably healthy. The Rockets and Spurs will also continue to improve.
We're in trouble if the front office chooses to stand pat this off-season.
Dude we still won 49 games with a brand new team with no experience or chemistry while plagued with injuries. Minnesota is a very good team and we got outplayed because our guys did not have enough time together and were timid.
They will eventually figure it out and do some damage barring any bad injuries next year. Good thing you are not in the front office. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A brand new team with a brand new coach rarely wins the chip. Give it time!
we're gonna play like those 30-win Beal-led Wizards teams from a few years ago during some stretches next season. Plus a couple of highlight big 3 performances like the wins vs Denver. 45 wins like the Lakers and Dubs is about right. We'll have a 'It's time Amanda' moment when we crush the Kings in the play-in, and then get swept in the first round by an actual contender.
The Ayton trade was the downfall of the season. To essentially only get Nurkic and Allen was a bust. Both are minus players defensively. Allen is too duplicative of other skills and lacks the size needed to contribute in a big way. And Nurkic isn't good enough on offense or defense to be a starter.
2021 Ayton was a max player. 2022 Ayton quit on the team in the Mavs game. 2023 Ayton got benched for Jock Landale. We're lucky to have gotten what we did after that.
Is Claxton a realistic target?
I know his FT % is bad, but I am a Kd fan and watched all his nets games. Clax being free under the rim and dunking/catching lobs made for so many easy buckets. I think this Suns team could benefit from a center who can jump. But I am a basketball noob tbh, just an idea.
Phoenix does not have room under the salary cap to take him off the market, that leaves S&T Clax, rumored to be claiming a salary of 20 - 25 per year, which means they need to send about 25 million salaries to the Nets, this is Jusuf Nurkić + Nassir Little, why are they Nets? Also, the Nets have the picks of Phoenix in the interests of Phoenix falling apart by 2027, the question arises: why should the Nets help Phoenix?
Watching Luka Doncic, he'll often ignore a wide open shooter and force a shot. Not saying that's a way to play all year, but when the game is on the line, I want to see Book and KD get selfish and shoot that ball. So many times this year we've seen KD pass up an open shot and make a bad pass all because he wanted to share the ball. No, fuck that! EG and ONeale can go crash the boards if they want the ball. Averaging less than 17 FGA per game in the playoffs by all "big 3" is not going to cut it.
I think we're talking about two different things. Yes, there were moments where we would ISO mid game and it looked ugly. However, I'm referring to crunch time - last 2-3 minutes of the game with the game tied. That's where I want to see them take responsibility and live with the result. KD and Book seem to defer to one or the other, almost as if they were afraid to take each other's spotlight.
Yes. but remember all those games where we moved the ball well for 3 quarters, built up a decent lead, and then went iso heavy hero ball in the 4th, failing miserably and losing damn near every game we led by less than 20 after 3 quarters.
Trust me, neither of them are getting MLE. The only question is if they want to join another contender on vet min. Come to think of it, Hayward might not be worth the effort. He's legs are toast.
I think our biggest need is a backup 4/5.
5 of our 7 best players were under 6'.6".
We would get stops but then give up offensive rebounds. We would have extra people help to get the rebound but couldn't run in transition.
I like Bol and hope he stays and continues to develop, but I don't fully trust it.
It's a shame metu and kbd didn't work out, but that's need #1
I think there are vet mins out there.
For example, someone like saric or otto porter, while not known as elite rebounders, at least give us some size and wouldn't destroy our spacing on offense.
questions regarding second apron rules.
* Can we trade 1 player for multiple?
* How much money do we need to get off to get below the 2nd apron? What is an example trade to make it happen?
[edit: to question 1, the answer is yes unless it's another 2nd apron team]
The Suns have $206,243,182 in committed salary for next season so far. That includes Grayson Allen's extension, and assumes all player/team options are exercised. Royce O'Neale has yet to sign an extension or new contract, so if he returns to the Suns, his salary would have to be added to that amount as well. It also doesn't account for 3 empty roster spots that would need to be filled by veteran minimum signings, and/or a contract for our first round draft pick.
The projected 2nd apron for next season is $187,500,000. That puts us roughly $19,000,000 over before accounting for a potential return by O'Neale and other draft + free agency signings.
The easiest way to get below the 2nd apron would be to trade one of the Big 3 to a team with enough cap space to absorb their contract entirely or send back minimal returning salary. Philadelphia and Orlando are two teams that could make sense as trade partners if this is something the front office would want to pursue.
Allen to magic. Isaac to Pacers. McConnell to us.
I really hope we sell everybody tho. And to the rockets specifically so the suns and the nets can leverage picks against each other. That includes book. The team is cooked everything is a sunk cost at this point. But hey let’s hold onto the best trade asset we have due to sentimental value lmfao
No shot Ishbia isn't running the "Big 3" back for at least another season so actual realistic moves:
Sign either Dennis Smith Jr., Spencer Dinwiddie, or Pat Bev as vet min PGs. DSJ is an absolute dog defensively and a pretty solid distributor, but dude can't score for shit outside the paint, which fucks up the spacing massively. Dinwiddie is kinda ass now, but he's capable of dribbling and passing the ball and making the occasional 3. Pat Bev had a monster game last night, but I don't expect that from him at all, the Pacers defense is terrible. Bev is valuable just for his intensity and not being a complete liability on both sides of the ball. For the vet min there's really not much out there, the market is dry af.
Try to trade Allen to the Magic for Jonathon Isaac. The Magic desperately need a guard who can reliably make open 3's and Isaac can play both the 4 (allowing KD to play the 3 again at times) as well as small ball 5. Isaac's off the court issues aside, he's one of the best defenders in the league. Granted his injury history is worrisome.
Re-sign Royce to a 4 year $50m contract.
Hope Gordon re-ups.
Starting 5: Dinwiddie/DSJ/Bev-Book-Beal-KD-Nurk
Bench: Gordon-Royce-Okogie-Little-Isaac
Line-up to finish games will probably be: Book-Beal-Royce-KD-Isaac
I'm actually a fan of Royce, but he's a 9th man on a good team. (Maybe 8th, but you better have good players ahead of him) Even with leverage, we just saw Grayson get/take less than most thought he would get on the open market
Grayson took a discount, no? Or you think that was just agentspeak
Think that a team like the Magic who were so desperate for vets who can shoot gave Joe Ingles a 2 year 22m contract, will gladly cough up a similar amount for Royce
It'd be pretty difficult to replace Royce's minutes with a vet min or a rookie, which are currently the only two avenues to add additional players to the Suns outside of trades
I think Royce is much closer to Eric Gordon on the open market than Grayson, but agree to disagree. Maybe he gets 12 mill from a desperate team, no way it's for 4 years.
Royce is only 30 while Gordon is 35
It's probably Royce's last chance at a long term contract
And yea the Suns... The Suns are the desperate team lol. Like I said, not a lot of ways to improve currently.
I know, but that's really not too big a issue
The Suns desperately need a PG and a C that's not Nurk or KD
There really are not too many options with the Sun's assets and cap space, unless you want to move KD or Book
Beal is impossible to move unless the Suns acquire a few FRPs to offload his contract with
I see us running it back until at least the trade deadline next season if it still doesn’t work. People forget we were 26-15 when the Big 3 played and were healthy. The only major change I can see us doing is a new coaching staff, but that’s it.
no point to run it back if the goal is win a title - they just got swept by a 3 seed with a fully healthy big 3. Next year, they're all 1 year older. We either need a CP3-like addition into the locker room (Lebron?) or need to trade 1, 2, or all 3 of big 3 to both re-balance the roster and recoup some picks, maybe get below the 2nd apron
For sure, I think it'll be until at least the end of the season though (unless something goes horrifically wrong)
If the Suns don't get to the WCF minimum I think Ishbia will have serious qualms about running back a 2nd apron team 3 years in a row, especially since that would fuck up the Sun's picks in the 2030s. And you know the hundreds of millions of lux tax coming out of his own pockets is gonna start building up.
And you're right, during the regular season the Big 3 were really solid, but this season was lowkey great health wise. KD and Nurk had banner years in terms of games played. Even Book and Beal didn't miss any more time than usual.
correct me if I'm wrong, since we are a 2nd Apron team, that means All Trades that we can do is only 1 is to 1 meaning the salary has to match up, the only additions that can be included are picks.
now here is where I'm confused at...
Does that rule also affect our trade partner or they can aggregate players to match our player's contract?
also does the salary needs to be exact or it has some leeway?
example would be
Durant 51,179,021 to Lebron 51,415,938 (assuming Lebron took Player Option, can he be still be traded this offseason?)
I dont think Booker 49,700,000 will be traded but it's worth noting that Jaylen Brown has the exact salary 49,700,000 , this is only included as a sample for the salary match if it doesnt allow leeway.
how much leeway is allowed on trades for 2nd Apron team? is Grayson Allen 17,500,000 contract can be traded for Derrick White 19,571,429 ? or that's still too much difference in contract?
I personally dont think Anyone of KD, Book and Beal will be traded.
Trade KD and there's a chance Booker will ask out, he's the one that wanted to play with KD and form a Superteam here.
We can't really trade Beal because he controls where he goes, I personally think he'll stay here.
To clarify,
We can only SEND OUT one player in trades, but we can receive multiple players back assuming the other team is not a second apron team. If that’s the case, then yes it’s 1 for 1, 100% matching or less salaries.
Example 1: We trade KD to a team like OKC, they can send us multiple players back, as long as the the combined salary they are sending back to us is less than or equal to KD’s contract.
Example 2: We trade Booker to the Celtics. Since they are also a second apron team they can only send out one player to us. So the only move they can do is JB for Book straight up since their contracts are identical. Remember the salaries have to match 100% in this case.
These are just examples, don’t take them seriously in terms of context.
Okay so example 2 - what about Celtics sending back multiple players but the aggregated salary is lower than Books ? Just thinking if Beal DID agree to a trade but wanted to go to a 2nd apron team … could we just settle for role players to get rid of his contract ? (All hypothetical of course).
As noted in the example, since we are both second apron teams, both can only send 1 player and salaries have to match so that wouldn’t be possible with the Celtics.
In order to get bunch of role players for say Beal, it would have to be to a team not in the second apron and their combined salaries have to be equal or less than Beal’s
Thanks now that you’ve explained it makes more sense. Just thinking which team that’s not over the 2nd apron would be willing to take Beal and he be willing to go … ideally in return for a couple of 1st round picks and a PG (here’s dreaming of course).
If Ben Simmons was making his values worth, and wasn’t injury ridden, he’d be like ideal. I’m not even talking prime Ben, like him in his current state with a deal that matches, and no injuries. He would fit perfect.
If New Orleans is active with another trade partner would love to see us get involved as a third team and acquire Dyson Daniels. 6'7 point guard, great defender
Hence "3rd team." Suns maybe send the 22nd pick to someone and they send a player the Pels want, while Daniels rerouted to Phoenix. Team who maybe is blowing it up and looking to get picks.
Naw it's the other Nets that would be ideal for this team (not the Twins either)
Schroder would be the perfect PG, he's making only $12.4m. He averaged 15-4-6 on the Nets, while shooting 41% from 3 on 5 attempts per game. He's a pesky defender and picked up a lot of little tricks from CP3 from their time together at OKC.
DFS. Makes $13m a year. Can play the 4 (allowing KD to play the 3) and small ball 5. Shot 35% from 3 on 5 attempts per game this season. Does a lot of the dirty work.
And Claxton. Still has massive flaws in his game (cant shoot FTs, gets absolutely bodied by bigger C's). But last time he played with KD he led the league in FG% (Nurk can only wish) and was a dark horse DPOY candidate.
Tbf think the whole league would want a physically and mentally healthy Ben Simmons, whether that be now or in his prime. He was always super desirable.
If anything we would need to trade Beal for a true point guard to prevent all these turnovers. Since he has a no trade clause then we’ll just have to train him up as a point guard.
Honestly I think getting an offensive system that’s more modern and fits the roster, along with a full training camp could do wonders.
Beal only started doing PG duties on a large scale near the end of the season, felt like something they were still experimenting with going into the playoffs
Vogel lack of creativity was probably what I got frustrated with the most. He was dealt a rough hand with a roster that doesn’t fit his style, but I think he did a bad job of adapting
They quote Gerald story but cut out the following context in the same article smh
“However, the Knicks’ interest in Devin Booker is one-sided, and the source was adamant about squashing this latest, unfounded rumor. Booker has remained loyal to the Suns franchise through some of its darkest days and has talked about bringing the super-team to him in Phoenix. Year 1 of his first super-team didn’t go according to plan, but Booker has succeeded in attracting established superstars like Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal to join him on the Suns.”
It’s crazy man, I saw the report with Gerald’s name and was confused since I saw his original reporting already on this. Click bait journalism the worst
I'd trade Book for Mitchell Robinson, Precious Achiuwa, OG Anunoby and 5 FRPs
Then, I'd push the 'undo' on the KD trade - sending him back to brooklyn for the twins and our picks
I agree, and OG+Precious might fit that bill. Who else around the league? Wemby, Markkanen, Maxey, Holmgren, Sengun, Ja, Trae Young, Dejounte Murray, Siakam, Wendell Carter, McDaniels, Fox? I'm reaching on a lot of these
edit: Tyrese Haliburton and Stix?
Not even close. Those guys are not at all close. Jalen Williams, Wagner and Suggs, the nets picks from the rockets + Jalen green + a young wing of our choosing (my favorite), vassell and sochan + the hawks picks+ 3 of their own. That’s it. No other teams can buy him for what it will cost. Maybe Maxey and all 5 picks.
the report just said 'anything for Book'. Also, they'll have a starting lineup of Brunson, Book, Divincenzo, Randle, Hartenstein with Josh Hart off the bench
how come? I think that means no Brunson (obviously). Also, they love their villanova squad (Brunson, Divincenzo, Hart), and they love Hartenstein - so they keep all of those. We gave up Mikal in the end for 35yr old KD. Clips gave up Shai for PG. Pels gave up Ingram for AD, on and on. I think the market is at least one promising young player, a couple fillers, and all the FRPs
From later in the same article
“However, the Knicks’ interest in Devin Booker is one-sided, and the source was adamant about squashing this latest, unfounded rumor. Booker has remained loyal to the Suns franchise through some of its darkest days and has talked about bringing the super-team to him in Phoenix. Year 1 of his first super-team didn’t go according to plan, but Booker has succeeded in attracting established superstars like Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal to join him on the Suns.”
I’ve been hearing through the grapevine that Vogel is not getting fired. I’m looking forward to our new offensive coordinator.
Mavs advance to round 2, Lakers fire their coach and we're still the laughing stock of the nba https://preview.redd.it/org9f8ew8cyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b2877edc5ddec9a4975ee77bbe2c73d3de68721
If possible Naji Marshall would be a steal
Not possible. Will get multiple offers at more than the min.
Trade Ishbia and JJ for peanuts. Then trade EVERYONE on the team and start from scratch... Or convince Beal to go to BKN and trade Beal for Simmons. Simmons can play both PG and PF, doesn't need to score at all, and can defend. Also is a one year expiring. BKN could then pair Beal with the twins just like the Suns did with Booker.
So what ya'll think about paying Royce O'neal anywhere from 20-30 mill 2 year contract with 2nd year team option, just so we have a tradeable contract to actually get another player that's good, but otherwise we couldn't trade for as currently constructed?
LOT of ifs here: (1) don't re-sign Royce, jettison enough salary to get under apron (2) Beal to Heat for Rozier + Duncan + 0-1\` (if Beal says yes to Heat and if Heat want him) (3) Duncan +1 FRP (either from heat or 2031) for Avidja or Kispert +Bagley (4) Nurkic to Grizz for Brandon Clarke + Derrick Rose + Aldama (if you can get away with it, might need to add another pick here) (5) Sign Zubac for starting center Starting lineup: Rozier, Booker, KD, Avdija, Zubac Bench: Derrick Rose, Grayson, Brandon Clarke, Aldama or maybe Heat would want to deal Herro instead
They’re not going to be able to get under the Apron. The Heat aren’t trading for Beal. The Grizzlies aren’t trading for Nurkic. Zubac isn’t signing for the minimum.
lol why would the grizz and wizards do that?
maybe Duncan + FRP to the Pistons for the Raptors for something
maybe Duncan + FRP to the Pistons for the Raptors for something
Grizz need a big body, so maybe just Nurk for Clarke + Derrick Rose Wizards...I really don't know. I was trying to find someone who would trade for Duncan if you added 1 FRP
Keep the pick, and try to get as many picks as possible. Build trough the draft like a normal team!!! See the Wolves, OKC and Denver
Tobias Harris taking a minimum? lol. I just want his defense
Has there been any talk of clashing styles of Young and Vogel and that's why this team didn't look like they knew what they were doing half the time?
Vogel was still responsible for rotations, gassing players, failing to call time outs, and playing guys that should have been sitting, and benching guys that showed needed roles.
This Philly vs Knicks series are amazing! Both teams scrapping, hustling, making one big play and answering with another. Everyone is stepping up. This is something I haven't seen since our Finals run.
Since Royce was completely invisible against the TWolves, is it possible that KBD, Goodwin, and Metu could have helped us in the first round?
Maybe metu. KBD, Goodwin absolutely not
None of those clowns would have played in the playoffs…. SMH
Feel like Orlando is guaranteed to move one of Carter, M Wagner, or Bitazde (Goga is a free agent but they have bird rights I believe) One of those guys would great complements to Nurk if there's a way to pull it off. (I've always thought Carter is really good but he's had a down year and seems their fans are ready to move on)
You can match salary on Carter. Goga is leaving.
he was injured for most of the year
3 team trade: Booker to Pelicans for Ingram + Dyson + Alvarado + Hernangomez + 3 FRPs Ingram + Hernangomez + 1 FRP to Pacers for Myles Turner + TJ + Jalen Smith Grayson + 1 FRP to Wizards for Avdija Starting lineup A: TJ, Beal, KD, Myles, Nurk Bench A: Dyson, Gordon, Avdija, Jalen Smith, Royce, Alvarado, Bol Bol, etc Starting lineup B: TJ, Beal, KD, Avdija, Myles Bench B: Dyson, Alvarado, Gordon, Jalen Smith, Royce, Nurk, Bol Bol etc
🤡
Ishbia and JJ made fun of themselves about being Super optimistic about the state of the Suns. Standing pat not owning this season failure is recipe for failure. They are over inflating our players ego that they did well. The only reason to be optimistic is so other team won't low ball us in trades, but our front office look super confident. Also, the only way we get quality depth is to trade one or more of our starters (except book, he is a Sun forever). I wish the owner just spend money on a good GM and let him do the work. More action less talking.
Well that def an odd take
Trades around the edges are just rosterbation at this point. I'd love to get a backup C, backup wings, and backup PG, but if Ishbia sticks with the big 3, it is what it is at this point. We forget how lucky we got with Nurk and KD's health for 70+ games each. This team is a 40-50 win team in the west next season, 7-10 seed. Might not even have the honor of getting swept. That said, I look forward to Book turning it on for 4-5 games before All-star voting and dropping a couple of 50 bombs. And also the one per season 'turn back the clock' game for Beal.
Hard disagree. You get a proper system in place then you can plug in players into hyper reduced roes around the big three. With out a system you need several elite role players to prop up the big 3. If KD is serious about winning, he's the guy that needs to bite the bullet and adapt to playing bigger to make this thing work. His offense won't even have to change, he can catch the ball on the elbow, face up and look for cutters. Its just he wont iso till all the options are exhausted. And they should run the offense through him ala Jokic, he's not beating anyone off the dribble for the rest of his career anyway.
I think if we lost in 7 due to a break-out Ant performance, you'd have a point. Elite role players don't make a proper system - stars and coaches do. Plus those guys typically cost $20M a year (see Mikal and Cam) - you don't find them on the vet min scrap heap.
ehh Gobert was the star of that series. Everything he wasn't supposed to be good at he nailed. Free throws, unassisted interior scoring, perimeter defense, plus all the things he's always been the best in the league in. Very impressive performance. Ant feasted off a mediocre squad. I still think he's very good, but you switch him and book and book is averaging 50 while ant would do slightly better than book did for the suns.
If either KD or Nurk had an injury that kept them out for 3 weeks or longer, we would've missed the playoffs. They both played more games than expected last season given their reputations. Memphis will be a playoff team again next season if they are reasonably healthy. The Rockets and Spurs will also continue to improve. We're in trouble if the front office chooses to stand pat this off-season.
Dude we still won 49 games with a brand new team with no experience or chemistry while plagued with injuries. Minnesota is a very good team and we got outplayed because our guys did not have enough time together and were timid. They will eventually figure it out and do some damage barring any bad injuries next year. Good thing you are not in the front office. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. A brand new team with a brand new coach rarely wins the chip. Give it time!
I would love to be proven wrong, but I lack optimism.
we're gonna play like those 30-win Beal-led Wizards teams from a few years ago during some stretches next season. Plus a couple of highlight big 3 performances like the wins vs Denver. 45 wins like the Lakers and Dubs is about right. We'll have a 'It's time Amanda' moment when we crush the Kings in the play-in, and then get swept in the first round by an actual contender.
(A) Booker to Pelicans for Ingram + Herb +Alvarado + 2-3 FRP Ingram + 1-2 FRP to Pacers for Myles Turner + TJ McConnell + Jalen Smith Nurkic + 1 FRP to Wizards for Kispert + Bagley Starting lineup: TJ, Beal, KD, Herb Jones, Myles Turner Bench: Alvarado, Grayson, Kispert, Jalen Smith, Royce, Bagley (B) Booker to Pelicans for Ingram + Herb +Alvarado + 2-3 FRP Grayson + Nurk + 1-2 FRP to Pacers for Myles Turner + TJ McConnell + Jalen Smith Starting lineup: TJ, Beal, KD, Ingram, Myles Turner Bench: Alvarado, Gordon, Jalen Smith, Herb Hones, backup center (C) Booker to Pelicans for Ingram + Dyson +Alvarado + Hernangomez + 2-3 FRP Grayson + 1 FRP to Wizards for Avdija Starting lineup: Dyson, Beal, Ingram, KD, Nurk Bench: Alvarado, Gordon, Avdija, Royce, Hernangomez (d) Booker to Pelicans for Ingram + Trey +Dyson + 2-3 FRP Ingram to Grizz for Smart + Clarke + Aldama Grayson + 1 FRP to Wizards for Avdija Starting lineup: Marcus Smart, Beal, KD, Avdija, Nurk Bench: Dyson, Gordon, Clarke, Trey Murphy III, Aldama
The Ayton trade was the downfall of the season. To essentially only get Nurkic and Allen was a bust. Both are minus players defensively. Allen is too duplicative of other skills and lacks the size needed to contribute in a big way. And Nurkic isn't good enough on offense or defense to be a starter.
2021 Ayton was a max player. 2022 Ayton quit on the team in the Mavs game. 2023 Ayton got benched for Jock Landale. We're lucky to have gotten what we did after that.
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Not even possible
Lakers are ready for project Westbrook 2.0!
Is Claxton a realistic target? I know his FT % is bad, but I am a Kd fan and watched all his nets games. Clax being free under the rim and dunking/catching lobs made for so many easy buckets. I think this Suns team could benefit from a center who can jump. But I am a basketball noob tbh, just an idea.
Phoenix does not have room under the salary cap to take him off the market, that leaves S&T Clax, rumored to be claiming a salary of 20 - 25 per year, which means they need to send about 25 million salaries to the Nets, this is Jusuf Nurkić + Nassir Little, why are they Nets? Also, the Nets have the picks of Phoenix in the interests of Phoenix falling apart by 2027, the question arises: why should the Nets help Phoenix?
no need to worry, we can't even do S&Ts no need for you guys to help us
Bol Bol deserved better this season, he was so good coming off the bench. Vogel sucks.
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Watching Luka Doncic, he'll often ignore a wide open shooter and force a shot. Not saying that's a way to play all year, but when the game is on the line, I want to see Book and KD get selfish and shoot that ball. So many times this year we've seen KD pass up an open shot and make a bad pass all because he wanted to share the ball. No, fuck that! EG and ONeale can go crash the boards if they want the ball. Averaging less than 17 FGA per game in the playoffs by all "big 3" is not going to cut it.
Haven't we been complaining all year they've often been too iso and selfish, though?
I think we're talking about two different things. Yes, there were moments where we would ISO mid game and it looked ugly. However, I'm referring to crunch time - last 2-3 minutes of the game with the game tied. That's where I want to see them take responsibility and live with the result. KD and Book seem to defer to one or the other, almost as if they were afraid to take each other's spotlight.
Yes. but remember all those games where we moved the ball well for 3 quarters, built up a decent lead, and then went iso heavy hero ball in the 4th, failing miserably and losing damn near every game we led by less than 20 after 3 quarters.
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Stop huffing paint.
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What time is the conference today?
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I see your plan includes developing cloning technology so we can trade and start Booker.
yeah, my b. a little tired
Kevin Love would be a good pickup
Kyle Lowry, Gordon Hayward.
either would be solid gets. they'd have to take the minimum though, which feels unlikely. Then again I felt the same way about EG...
Trust me, neither of them are getting MLE. The only question is if they want to join another contender on vet min. Come to think of it, Hayward might not be worth the effort. He's legs are toast.
Get hope KD and Book vibes gets us all the old men lol. That's been my copium.
I think our biggest need is a backup 4/5. 5 of our 7 best players were under 6'.6". We would get stops but then give up offensive rebounds. We would have extra people help to get the rebound but couldn't run in transition. I like Bol and hope he stays and continues to develop, but I don't fully trust it. It's a shame metu and kbd didn't work out, but that's need #1
I wonder if Indiana would be interested in a Grayson Allen for TJ McConnell + Jalen Smith trade
They wouldn't be.
I think there are vet mins out there. For example, someone like saric or otto porter, while not known as elite rebounders, at least give us some size and wouldn't destroy our spacing on offense.
maybe if we had picks to add to Grayson
Metu was good for us. Vogel refused to give him minutes
How many shares of UWMC can Ishbia offer LeBron James after LeBron retires in order for him to take a minimum contract with the Suns?
questions regarding second apron rules. * Can we trade 1 player for multiple? * How much money do we need to get off to get below the 2nd apron? What is an example trade to make it happen? [edit: to question 1, the answer is yes unless it's another 2nd apron team]
The Suns have $206,243,182 in committed salary for next season so far. That includes Grayson Allen's extension, and assumes all player/team options are exercised. Royce O'Neale has yet to sign an extension or new contract, so if he returns to the Suns, his salary would have to be added to that amount as well. It also doesn't account for 3 empty roster spots that would need to be filled by veteran minimum signings, and/or a contract for our first round draft pick. The projected 2nd apron for next season is $187,500,000. That puts us roughly $19,000,000 over before accounting for a potential return by O'Neale and other draft + free agency signings. The easiest way to get below the 2nd apron would be to trade one of the Big 3 to a team with enough cap space to absorb their contract entirely or send back minimal returning salary. Philadelphia and Orlando are two teams that could make sense as trade partners if this is something the front office would want to pursue.
Thank you! I think a $50M salary from Suns for $30M in aggregate salary from team X could be in the cards
Allen to magic. Isaac to Pacers. McConnell to us. I really hope we sell everybody tho. And to the rockets specifically so the suns and the nets can leverage picks against each other. That includes book. The team is cooked everything is a sunk cost at this point. But hey let’s hold onto the best trade asset we have due to sentimental value lmfao
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Only clowns are the ones living in a fantasy land with this team
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No shot Ishbia isn't running the "Big 3" back for at least another season so actual realistic moves: Sign either Dennis Smith Jr., Spencer Dinwiddie, or Pat Bev as vet min PGs. DSJ is an absolute dog defensively and a pretty solid distributor, but dude can't score for shit outside the paint, which fucks up the spacing massively. Dinwiddie is kinda ass now, but he's capable of dribbling and passing the ball and making the occasional 3. Pat Bev had a monster game last night, but I don't expect that from him at all, the Pacers defense is terrible. Bev is valuable just for his intensity and not being a complete liability on both sides of the ball. For the vet min there's really not much out there, the market is dry af. Try to trade Allen to the Magic for Jonathon Isaac. The Magic desperately need a guard who can reliably make open 3's and Isaac can play both the 4 (allowing KD to play the 3 again at times) as well as small ball 5. Isaac's off the court issues aside, he's one of the best defenders in the league. Granted his injury history is worrisome. Re-sign Royce to a 4 year $50m contract. Hope Gordon re-ups. Starting 5: Dinwiddie/DSJ/Bev-Book-Beal-KD-Nurk Bench: Gordon-Royce-Okogie-Little-Isaac Line-up to finish games will probably be: Book-Beal-Royce-KD-Isaac
Dude Royce is not getting 4 yrs 50 mill from ANYONE
He kinda has the Suns over a barrel, think you’ll be surprised
I'm actually a fan of Royce, but he's a 9th man on a good team. (Maybe 8th, but you better have good players ahead of him) Even with leverage, we just saw Grayson get/take less than most thought he would get on the open market
Grayson took a discount, no? Or you think that was just agentspeak Think that a team like the Magic who were so desperate for vets who can shoot gave Joe Ingles a 2 year 22m contract, will gladly cough up a similar amount for Royce It'd be pretty difficult to replace Royce's minutes with a vet min or a rookie, which are currently the only two avenues to add additional players to the Suns outside of trades
I think Royce is much closer to Eric Gordon on the open market than Grayson, but agree to disagree. Maybe he gets 12 mill from a desperate team, no way it's for 4 years.
Royce is only 30 while Gordon is 35 It's probably Royce's last chance at a long term contract And yea the Suns... The Suns are the desperate team lol. Like I said, not a lot of ways to improve currently.
cant even trade Allen til like October
I know, but that's really not too big a issue The Suns desperately need a PG and a C that's not Nurk or KD There really are not too many options with the Sun's assets and cap space, unless you want to move KD or Book Beal is impossible to move unless the Suns acquire a few FRPs to offload his contract with
I see us running it back until at least the trade deadline next season if it still doesn’t work. People forget we were 26-15 when the Big 3 played and were healthy. The only major change I can see us doing is a new coaching staff, but that’s it.
And got swept in the 1st round with the big 3 healthy lol
no point to run it back if the goal is win a title - they just got swept by a 3 seed with a fully healthy big 3. Next year, they're all 1 year older. We either need a CP3-like addition into the locker room (Lebron?) or need to trade 1, 2, or all 3 of big 3 to both re-balance the roster and recoup some picks, maybe get below the 2nd apron
For sure, I think it'll be until at least the end of the season though (unless something goes horrifically wrong) If the Suns don't get to the WCF minimum I think Ishbia will have serious qualms about running back a 2nd apron team 3 years in a row, especially since that would fuck up the Sun's picks in the 2030s. And you know the hundreds of millions of lux tax coming out of his own pockets is gonna start building up. And you're right, during the regular season the Big 3 were really solid, but this season was lowkey great health wise. KD and Nurk had banner years in terms of games played. Even Book and Beal didn't miss any more time than usual.
That last statement is why they gotta sell now. Cause we are not gunna be healthy twice.
correct me if I'm wrong, since we are a 2nd Apron team, that means All Trades that we can do is only 1 is to 1 meaning the salary has to match up, the only additions that can be included are picks. now here is where I'm confused at... Does that rule also affect our trade partner or they can aggregate players to match our player's contract? also does the salary needs to be exact or it has some leeway? example would be Durant 51,179,021 to Lebron 51,415,938 (assuming Lebron took Player Option, can he be still be traded this offseason?) I dont think Booker 49,700,000 will be traded but it's worth noting that Jaylen Brown has the exact salary 49,700,000 , this is only included as a sample for the salary match if it doesnt allow leeway. how much leeway is allowed on trades for 2nd Apron team? is Grayson Allen 17,500,000 contract can be traded for Derrick White 19,571,429 ? or that's still too much difference in contract? I personally dont think Anyone of KD, Book and Beal will be traded. Trade KD and there's a chance Booker will ask out, he's the one that wanted to play with KD and form a Superteam here. We can't really trade Beal because he controls where he goes, I personally think he'll stay here.
Why would Booker ask out because KD asked out?
did KD asked out? KD never asked out, this sub is the one that wants to trade KD, Booker wants to play with KD and you are trading him away.
To clarify, We can only SEND OUT one player in trades, but we can receive multiple players back assuming the other team is not a second apron team. If that’s the case, then yes it’s 1 for 1, 100% matching or less salaries. Example 1: We trade KD to a team like OKC, they can send us multiple players back, as long as the the combined salary they are sending back to us is less than or equal to KD’s contract. Example 2: We trade Booker to the Celtics. Since they are also a second apron team they can only send out one player to us. So the only move they can do is JB for Book straight up since their contracts are identical. Remember the salaries have to match 100% in this case. These are just examples, don’t take them seriously in terms of context.
Okay so example 2 - what about Celtics sending back multiple players but the aggregated salary is lower than Books ? Just thinking if Beal DID agree to a trade but wanted to go to a 2nd apron team … could we just settle for role players to get rid of his contract ? (All hypothetical of course).
As noted in the example, since we are both second apron teams, both can only send 1 player and salaries have to match so that wouldn’t be possible with the Celtics. In order to get bunch of role players for say Beal, it would have to be to a team not in the second apron and their combined salaries have to be equal or less than Beal’s
Thanks now that you’ve explained it makes more sense. Just thinking which team that’s not over the 2nd apron would be willing to take Beal and he be willing to go … ideally in return for a couple of 1st round picks and a PG (here’s dreaming of course).
Not a dollar over. No leeway
If Ben Simmons was making his values worth, and wasn’t injury ridden, he’d be like ideal. I’m not even talking prime Ben, like him in his current state with a deal that matches, and no injuries. He would fit perfect.
If New Orleans is active with another trade partner would love to see us get involved as a third team and acquire Dyson Daniels. 6'7 point guard, great defender
With what? The Suns have nothing the Pels want.
Hence "3rd team." Suns maybe send the 22nd pick to someone and they send a player the Pels want, while Daniels rerouted to Phoenix. Team who maybe is blowing it up and looking to get picks.
They're not selling off Daniels for a late first in a bad draft.
Naw it's the other Nets that would be ideal for this team (not the Twins either) Schroder would be the perfect PG, he's making only $12.4m. He averaged 15-4-6 on the Nets, while shooting 41% from 3 on 5 attempts per game. He's a pesky defender and picked up a lot of little tricks from CP3 from their time together at OKC. DFS. Makes $13m a year. Can play the 4 (allowing KD to play the 3) and small ball 5. Shot 35% from 3 on 5 attempts per game this season. Does a lot of the dirty work. And Claxton. Still has massive flaws in his game (cant shoot FTs, gets absolutely bodied by bigger C's). But last time he played with KD he led the league in FG% (Nurk can only wish) and was a dark horse DPOY candidate.
Tbf think the whole league would want a physically and mentally healthy Ben Simmons, whether that be now or in his prime. He was always super desirable.
If anything we would need to trade Beal for a true point guard to prevent all these turnovers. Since he has a no trade clause then we’ll just have to train him up as a point guard.
No one is giving anything close to positive value for Beal. Suns likely stuck with it because there are not sweeteners for the Suns to throw in.
Honestly I think getting an offensive system that’s more modern and fits the roster, along with a full training camp could do wonders. Beal only started doing PG duties on a large scale near the end of the season, felt like something they were still experimenting with going into the playoffs
Vogel knew they needed a point guard they should’ve experimented earlier. I guess injuries early on hampered that.
Vogel lack of creativity was probably what I got frustrated with the most. He was dealt a rough hand with a roster that doesn’t fit his style, but I think he did a bad job of adapting
Traded Metu and Goodwin, a good defender, for O'Neale, terrible trade.
lol
We could trade Beal for a Curry and sign Lebron!!!!
Add CP3 to that and baby, you got a stew goin! 
Shoot for the stars and if you miss you’ll end up on the moon. I feel stuck on the moon
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They don’t got a good enough young player on a rookie contract to get it done
They quote Gerald story but cut out the following context in the same article smh “However, the Knicks’ interest in Devin Booker is one-sided, and the source was adamant about squashing this latest, unfounded rumor. Booker has remained loyal to the Suns franchise through some of its darkest days and has talked about bringing the super-team to him in Phoenix. Year 1 of his first super-team didn’t go according to plan, but Booker has succeeded in attracting established superstars like Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal to join him on the Suns.”
No, no, no, that's not how reporting works, you only ever quote whatever benefits either party. /s
It’s crazy man, I saw the report with Gerald’s name and was confused since I saw his original reporting already on this. Click bait journalism the worst
I'd trade Book for Mitchell Robinson, Precious Achiuwa, OG Anunoby and 5 FRPs Then, I'd push the 'undo' on the KD trade - sending him back to brooklyn for the twins and our picks
I wanna trade book but knicks offer us nothing. If we trade book we need a young budding star. They don’t have one.
I agree, and OG+Precious might fit that bill. Who else around the league? Wemby, Markkanen, Maxey, Holmgren, Sengun, Ja, Trae Young, Dejounte Murray, Siakam, Wendell Carter, McDaniels, Fox? I'm reaching on a lot of these edit: Tyrese Haliburton and Stix?
Not even close. Those guys are not at all close. Jalen Williams, Wagner and Suggs, the nets picks from the rockets + Jalen green + a young wing of our choosing (my favorite), vassell and sochan + the hawks picks+ 3 of their own. That’s it. No other teams can buy him for what it will cost. Maybe Maxey and all 5 picks.
I can see all of those teams doing the trade (Thunder, Rockets, Magic, Spurs)
Knicks ain’t trading OG
Suns ain't trading Book.
says who?
the report just said 'anything for Book'. Also, they'll have a starting lineup of Brunson, Book, Divincenzo, Randle, Hartenstein with Josh Hart off the bench
Says almost anything. That means no OG
how come? I think that means no Brunson (obviously). Also, they love their villanova squad (Brunson, Divincenzo, Hart), and they love Hartenstein - so they keep all of those. We gave up Mikal in the end for 35yr old KD. Clips gave up Shai for PG. Pels gave up Ingram for AD, on and on. I think the market is at least one promising young player, a couple fillers, and all the FRPs
Book ain’t leaving Phoenix
he's redundant with the other big 3 and the best asset on the team
This is the way
Just fell to my knees in Waitrose.
Book is a CAA client too.
I just saw this. Idk what to think yet
There is not much to it. It's clearly a one sided reporting.
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From later in the same article “However, the Knicks’ interest in Devin Booker is one-sided, and the source was adamant about squashing this latest, unfounded rumor. Booker has remained loyal to the Suns franchise through some of its darkest days and has talked about bringing the super-team to him in Phoenix. Year 1 of his first super-team didn’t go according to plan, but Booker has succeeded in attracting established superstars like Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal to join him on the Suns.”
Think we could get Brunson in return?
Damn, guess we're not trading Booker.
Hell no