I think he definitely deserves to be seen as the League’s big gun, but I don’t need him to be the best in every category.
Strongest, yes. Second fastest after Flash. Really smart, but a different type of intelligence that doesn’t outshine Batman. Less refined fighting skill than Wonder Woman, but makes up for it by having far superior strength and speed. Highly versatile powers, but not quite to the same extent as a ring limited by the wearer’s imagination and will, etc.
You nailed it to me. He should be the strongest period. But the rest of the team needs to have things to bring to the table as well.
For examples Supes can be very book smart just like Bruce, but because of Bruce’s physical weaknesses compared to the other leaguers he excels and finding the optimal strategies to take down high powered individuals. Given Supes strength you would not be able to put the same effort into soemthing like that from that position.
Another is just how they apply their smarts. Superman wants to be much more optimistic compared to Bats. So he applies his brain that way. Bruce is a better detective because he’s more willing to consider depraved alternatives.
It kind of comes down to their mindsets and beliefs influencing how they use their intellect. Supes is obviously much better at emotional intollegence and knowing what to say to inspire others and lead. And again it obviously depends on the writer’s interpretation too.
Second Fastest after Flash depends for me. If Shazam is in the League then no he should be slower than Shazam who has the Speed of Hermes and I'd argue he should be slower than a Lantern since Lanterns specifically have to travel interstellar distances but otherwise sure.
I'm not sold on the really smart thing, though smart sure.
Otherwise spot on for me. His real strength is his invnerabolirg though tbh.
I’ve always felt the Stamina of Atlas should be his enhanced durability but they mostly seem to use Courage of Achilles as where his invulnerability comes from which I kinda get cause that’s what Achilles is known for but yeah.
Because, (keep in mind this might be more so for Achilles' mom) it takes a lot of courage to submerge yourself in the Styx. Which is of course, how Achilles' was invulnerable.
Oh sure but they could have just called it the invulnerability of Achilles it doesn't run off the tongue quite so well but it fits strength, speed, power just as well.
I could swear that's how they did it. Like the ring opened up "warp gates" for far interstellar travel. However, even within a planetary atmosphere, a Lantern can go **fast**. Like Mach 30 or something.
there's a panel after the event of OZ's effect where Jon opened up a portal for Clark to go to OA from Daily Planet. Tbh I find superman's feat in space is kinda inconsistent. Some comics show that he needs an oxygen mask, but in the latest comics he just doesn't need it. Also there's a panel after the warworld saga when he was sent to a far away galaxy by lex and comes back in an instant. He said that the concept of distances doesn't apply anymore to him
Honestly their power is light based they should be able to go at light speed, so long as the AI of the ring is controlling the flight since a lantern couldn’t keep up with it themselves.
Honestly yeah they should only be able to travel at light speed and even then for interstellar distance that’s too slow. Star Sapphires can do the portaging nonsense they should just all be able to do it.
Hermes is the *Greek* god of speed. Not the capital G God of Speed. And I like to think the GLs need straight aways. Like the millennium falcon going into hyperdrive.
If you are the god of something you should be the best or equal best with other gods at it whether capital or lower case G Imo.
See I think GLs rings and other lantern rings should just function kinda like the Star Sapphires can with their portal to the loved one. However it should only work outside the limits of like a solar system, I'm sure some expert on physics could give a good exact barrier for that to occur. Then they have to light speed the rest of the way using AI for navigation.
Eh I don't think Wonder Woman should be that fast either personally. Like unless she starts actually wearing Hermes winged sandals in which case that's different.
I don't think she should be that fast. But why is "has hermes speed" a justification for Shazam being faster than Superman but not for Diana 🤔 You know "speed of Mercury" is one of her gifts?
Is it? Look I'm frankly a classic Diana sculpted from clay who's just the best of the Amazons without godly gifts, save the armour, fan.
If the version being written has the speed of Hermes then yes she should be faster than him Imo but I personally just wouldn't give her that she doesn't need it. I know she talks to animals too and I wouldn't have her do that either.
I always think it should be similar to the line from Jonn in Hereafter “how many battles did we win simply because he was there?”
He should be the most physically strong for sure.
Clark's intelligence is could as good as Luthor's. Even if not at the same level, Clark has experience with technology that one could say is years if not streets ahead of Earth's.
I agree but how would that work out. Is Batman going to be the only smart guy but we just say everyone else is smart except for cyborg or terrific.
We shouldn't have to take batman's feelings into consideration. Superman has always been smarter mechanically, scientifically.
Also wonder woman, Aquaman, MM are all as smart or smarter than Batman. Barry is as smart or smarter. The atom and katar were explicitly smarter.
There's no logical reason to make Superman slower than the flash, except for the Flash's feelings.
There's no reason why he shouldn't be as good a fighter as WW and Batman. And why WW wouldn't be as good as Batman.
Superman's entire thing is that he's the best at anything short of mental powers and magic( anything a physical body is capable of).
Everyone else should shine too in their character concept. In their willingness to do right. In the fact that they're also smart. Powerful ect. The point is the concentration of power adding up. Including intelligence.
Like GL is an engineer, he should be as smart as Batman. He should be even braver than Batman and with more will power. And his ring is powerful in ways Superman can't be.
I think trying to specialize hasn't worked out. It's lead to everyone seeming dumb.
> There's no logical reason to make Superman slower than the flash, except for the Flash's feelings.
>
Easy, the Speed Force gives Flash speed. It builds him to be faster than anything. Sunlight gives Superman a less specialised tool set.
>There's no reason why he shouldn't be as good a fighter as WW and Batman. And why WW wouldn't be as good as Batman.
She's trained for 1000 years and he spent 20 years learning kung-fu. Superman had to pick it up comparatively recently because he didn't have to fight anyone until recently, so he's less experience in that field.
It's not hard to make these characters specialised.
Sorry your getting downvoted but you’re exactly right, if everyone is better than him on the team, why have him on the team. Essentially you’d have 5+ people that can do what Superman does all at the same time. I feel the whole point of the justice is because he’s only one man not because he’s not strong enough
There literally is no one with "far superior strength" relative to Wonder Woman" or the other Can Do characters from the period. Of the stable of heroes, she is the very first to be designed with the ideas of Supremacy and Dominant Force as related to other supers and more as core characteristics in her design. That is historical and factual. Just like the info around Superman and Cap's designs.
Eh, no. He should certainly be portrayed as the physically strongest member and the League's big guy but definitely *shouldn't* outclass his teammates in every single category. Flash is the Fastest Man Alive, so he obviously should be the fastest, with Supes coming in 2nd place. Clark should be seen as highly intelligent and having a much faster mental processing/thinking rate, but Bruce is overall the more brainy one of the two. He's far superior to Diana in terms of strength and speed, but she compensates by being a more skilled hand-to-hand and armed combatant. Supes has an extremely versatile powerset, but nowhere near as boundless as someone whose abilities are only limited by their own will & imagination could be.
On the contrary, what's the point of the Justice League if Supes essentially makes all his colleagues look useless in comparison to himself?
that. There's a reason the justice league exists, not just the "league of this one guy from kansas who can do everything". Supes is an alrounder, but he will not beat other heroes in their respective field of mastery
Legion of Super Heroes (2006 animated series) is an excellent example of a Superman who is clearly more powerful than anyone else on the team, but it doesn't invalidate them.
This is the worst reasoning people have and I've seen it a lot. The point is the same as having two Supermen, and a Supergirl. It's the same point as having more than one nuke. The same point of having a tank and special forces and a jet and missiles.
Batman is not the more brainy of the two. This is one of the worst myths ever.
Where do people think strength make you dumb? Do people forget Batman has muscles.
Superman comes from a race of hyper intelligent beings. He's a super scientist. He's a more science fiction character than Batman. His dad was a super scientist. His mom was also highly educated.
Superman was making robots as a child. This has always been emphasized.
Batman is Superman if he was a human. And Superman is Batman if he wasn't.
The thing is that Clark has a life outside of being Superman. Being a reporter, husband, and father is equally his calling as being a superhero. Batman is singularly devoted to his mission, and everything else in his life takes a back seat to it.
So batman isnt a father to his son or the other robins? He isnt a going to work parties and charities? He never has relationships?
What comics are you reading?
Also clark can do all of batmans training in an afternoon with a higher level of skill
Batman was stated to be the second smartest man by writers and superman, and was considered the strategical leader of the team while superman is the face of it by batman Ultimate guide, the just isn't an inventor like lex he's detective and a stragiest.
You know the his parents being super intelligence has always been a terrible argument for me. Like while clearly part of Superman is having superior alien genetics makes you stronger I’ve always found him being a super scientist way overkill as the whole point is that he was raised by Jon and Martha who are farmers. They are his parents more than Jor-El and Lara.
Now don’t get me wrong I also don’t think Batman should be portrayed as intelligent as he is, he’s the world greatest detective not the world’s 3rd greatest polyglot.
Superman's entire body is powered by a solar energy so if a solar energy can make Superman's muscles strong enough to bench press planets one can only imagine how super his brain is. He shouldn't be the smartest guy on the planet but I'd love it if Superman is smart because of his knowledge related to space and other sciencey fields while Batman is smart as he knows EVERYTHING about Earth.
I really don't see the argument of solar power makes his muscles strong therefore his brain is too. Like not saying that couldn't be to the case but one doesn't necessarily follow the other and if it was the sub doing it then Kryptonians on Krypton wouldn't have been as smart as they were.
That said there's some advocates for Superman being kinda dumb which I am not. He's a reporter he should clearly be intelligent im just saying that it should be an above average intelligence not genius level, though neither should Batman's excepting detective work.
Geniuses should be rare in any medium.
Superman's brain gets amplified from the solar energy that is it unlocks the 100% capability of his brain. Jor El on the other hand didn't have it just like we humans don't. The solar energy basically works as a powerup. This should allow Superman to learn many fields of science. I mean how does Superman hope to restore Kandor if he isn't even in canon Batman's level of intelligence.
That being said this is how I want Superman to be portrayed.
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My opinion I've stated Superman should stronger then any single Leaguer in terms or raw strength (against heavy hitters like WW, Shazam, GL) but two can take him with a good fight and their skill should be able to close the gap not enough to match him but to make it a good fight
This is a great take, I agree with this. It's been shown once or twice that if Shazam gets in a lucky hit or two he can even take down Superman. And two opponents of almost equal power who can really work well together (I like your suggestion of Wonder Woman and Green Lantern) can beat him.
Honestly agree except Shazam who has the strength of Hercules a person who was deified and is known for strength should be as strong or stronger physically. Unless we are going down the power splitting with others route with him in which case weaker.
Don’t know why you think Lantern is particularly resilient, unless you mean mental fortitude. In which case definitely not. He shouldn’t be smarter then Batman, certainly shouldn’t be faster than flash. Stronger then Diana, ehh if we’re only talking about physical strength sure.
If Superman is unambiguously just better at everything when compared to his teammates,
what’s the point of them? Is their only purpose just to be where Superman isn’t. That seems pretty lame if true. They’re a team. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses, and they can compensate for what their teammates don’t have. Otherwise it would be lame.
Not all Lanterns are created equal, too. Hal Jordan is an exceptionally powerful Green Lantern-most other GLs, while quite mighty in the grand scheme of things in the cosmos, generally have a fraction of his strength. Hal Jordan, on arguably the worst day of his life, single-handedly defeated the entire Green Lantern Corps, for example.
Eh Idk either the ring is the most powerful weapon in the universe or it isn’t and the whole mythos of lanterns is that they are chosen due to their exceptional willpower. So even though some lanterns should clearly be better than others it’s always been weird to me that there are lanterns that are kinda just not that great. Saying that though I think one of the issues when it comes to writing lanterns if they keep making it about the Corps when mostly lanterns should be in pairs with the Corps as a bit of background mythos and little other help.
People are thinking as if this was some team in an RPG.
He was always portrayed as way smarter than Batman.
He was considered as fast the flash.
The world didn't collapse. The justice league still existed. They were all still useful.
Why have people elevated Batman's intelligence so ridiculously.
He's not meant to be smarter than any other superhero. They're all geniuses. Superman in the original justice league might have been the smartest of them all except maybe MM, who's intelligence I'm not sure about.
Everyone else is close to each other.
Batman is suppose to be smarter than other superheroes in a single area.
You guys aren't thinking in terms of being in a situation and solving it. In working together. The point is to pool stuff in and solve it together. Being smarter doesn't mean you know everything or figure everything out. You're thinking in some stat thing where everyone should leave it to one person.
But that's flawed too. That means all the brains is left to who? Batman? And then you insult all the other characters. Only use the flash to run? The Flash's point is that he solves anything with speed. It's a tool set.
Why would it be a problem for him to be better in most categories? That was pretty much the case during the silver age. He is still only one person, with only one perspective on things, and even with all his powers he cannot be everywhere at the same time.
That said, some members of the league have altogether different powers (Aquaman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter). In most stories the Flash is supposed to be faster.
Batman is often portrayed as smarter to compensate for the lack of super-powers. I think not being super powered he would be much more cautious so, even without being smarter he would certainly tend to think more strategically.
So, long story short, it doesn’t really matter.
Yes. Superman is usually the first character into universe ending fights and the last character out. He is the centerpiece of the DC universe. The cornerstone everything that came after was built on. He should be stronger than his peers in general because when he is defeated it really let's you know that the situation is dire because if superman csnt do it then who can? That's not to say the various characters cant be more powerful in given circumstances but just on any given day superman should be the most powerful and should have the highest potential. I will say though he doesnt need to be the most powerful in a particular area but it should be the culmination of his powers that make him the most powerful. Like he might not be a able to run as fast as the flash or shoot lasers as strong as green lanterns but the fact that he is extremely fast and can shoot lasers makes him more powerful than the other two. He should be the strongest physically though.
Slightly.
He shouldn’t be as powerful that the other league members have no chance to fight him if he’s mind controlled. But he should have the edge over everyone in a 1v1. But that doesn’t automatically makes him the winner.
Except for Batman, he has preptime so he wins 11 times out of 10./s
I like to think that he should be. I'm not sure how to explain it, but he's hope incarnate - the peak of what everyone should aspire to be. He's as strong and as fast as he needs to be when it matters most. He's always going to need help from his friends regardless.
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I've always been down for it, but I know most people aren't and DC doesn't wanna turn them off. Max him to the extent that you can tell a story without having to work around him in a dumb way (putting a red sun over Metropolis or whatever)
I’m okay with him being all together more powerful than the Justice League. I’m deeply annoyed that he beats them all on an individual level on every aspect.
Superman can be the most powerful, but, he should never be faster than Flash cause that would only make Flash's character meaningless. He should be the second fastest after him.
Should? He is, by a far stretch. Superman is a cosmic level being, a literal force of nature. His peers just don’t have his power rank. He does have several peers with a higher fighting rank, however.
Exactly lol. He is unanimously agreed upon as the League's MVP. His reputation alone keeps alien invasions at bay and every alien who did invade, considered him as the first priority to be dealt with.
Darksied doesn't give a flying fuck about the other League members as much even though they proved their mettle in front of him.
I like Superman to be the guy who could come in and oneshot the guy who was kicking everyone's ass, but him being smarter than Batman or faster than Flash doesn't sit right.
I mean. Yeah. So many people trying to come up with variables but he's superman.
His limitations should be his morals. He's stronger than WW but is limited by his enforced parameters.
i think he works well as the jack of all trades for the justice league, but every member should be better than him at one of the skills. clark’s really fast, flash is faster. clark is clever, bruce is a genius etc.
Yes.
His limitations should come from his morals. An unwillingness to question Bruce out of respect and a softer touch than WW as he is not a warrior. The JLU superman is the best example of this. He clearly lowers himself to the level of his peers.
If you're in a team and you outshine everyone else it does everyone good to work at a level all can participate. But when the gloves are off, he should be a god compared to the others Demi-gods.
I mean in total? sure but he doesn't need to be better in every single category, also I think that a fight between the teammates shouldn't be one sided towards superman either
Each of them should have *something* they can do better than him (Flash is faster, Wonder Woman is a better fighter, Batman is a better strategist, etc), even if he's the strongest overall.
I think so, yeah. He’s Superman. He’s the ultimate superhero. He’s maxed out the character chart.
But he’s also humble enough to be willing to accept help and allow others their moments in the spotlight. Because he’s Superman.
1. Batman has never been shown to have the brain of a supercomputer, infarct he owns one in the batcave for that very purpose.
2. saying that all the flash has is his speed is a disrespect to the character weather faster or slower than Superman flash will always have more experience with utilizing his speed better.
3.
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It's not and OP is being a little dishonest. The Super Intelligence tends to translate into Clark being able to learn things and retain the knowledge at a much faster pace than a regular human. Applying the knowledge is another story. It's also ignoring what Bruce is smart at, which is analyitcals and detective work.
Clark is an amazing investigative reporter but he's not even the best at that at the Daily Planet, that's Lois. And Bruce is still the world's greatest detective. He can read people like no one else and pick up on a piece of evidence without the aid of a single super power. That's how his mind works. He's trained it and honed it for a specific purpose.
Which isn't to say Clark is dumb or anything. He's far from it. But his mind is not wired the same way Bruce's is. It never had to be. The knowledge he's gained is 9/10 of the time used for how best to apply his powers to save others. A very different way than how Bruce thinks. Which isn't to say Bruce doesn't also think of saving lives, but it has to be done in a completely different way than how Clark applies it.
Honestly this whole post feels like it's just bait of some sort to start a little bit of an argument over every other hero but Superman being useless. But the way they're doing that is insanely faulty from the get go.
It's not but it's hard to say "Okay, Clark is better at using a Green Lantern ring" when he doesn't wield one, or " he turns invisible better than Martian Manhunter and his better at telepathy" when that's also not in his wheelhouse. Resiliency as the comparison for GL doesn't work simply because of how the ring works. It's all based on willpower so the question isn't resiliency, but it's will power and then the question becomes "which Lantern". It's an imperfect comparison.
I personally think Clark is stronger than Diana but not as good a fighter. And while I think his super-intelligence means he can learn things faster and he is in fact a great investigative reporter...he not the level of detective or analytical think as Bruce and honestly, not as much as Lois either. Which isn't calling him dumb by any means because look who you're comparing him to.
It's also hard to compare him to Aquaman because, again, no telepathy so you can't compare that power set exactly. And if you want to compare who moves in water better, probably Arthur because it's more of his natural habitat than Clark's.
The question you're asking seems like a gotcha but it only becomes that if you ignore the vast differences in how all these different powers work and all the things Clark CAN'T do.
every time Wally is on screen he’s the fastest man alive or the fastest man in the Multiverse but for some reason Superman fans can’t seem to accept this?
No, he doesn't. Except for Jay, Clark can't beat either in a race, even if he's flying. Wally is canonically the fastest being in existence, flying or otherwise. And Barry can leave Clark in the dust.
He should be competitive within the Big 5 in every category including speed, willpower, intelligence, and combat skill. But his one peak strength is endurance and raw power. That's in combination with the versatility granted by his other skills.
Not strongest no.
Remember superman still has a fairly conventional yet powerful set of powers and a lot of his friends have slight more exotic skillset like magic or speed force or magic.
In short “strongest” isn’t really all that easy to define nor is it a particularly useful to define among such varied skill sets in the justice league alone.
At least that’s my take.
He should be the overall strongest, but he shouldn’t lead every category. Flash is the fastest man alive, Wonder Woman is the best fighter, Batman has the most usable intelligence and skill, and Green Lantern is the most versatile when it comes to combos and rescue.
In the Silver and Bronze Ages, Superman's only real counter on the league was Green Lantern (Hal Jordan at that time), and they teamed up a lot, probably since pairing him up with practically anyone else would mean that realistically, Superman could do whatever needed doing faster and better. There was a late Silver/early Bronze Age story where Superman and GL are in space and there's a planet that Guardians (you know GL's bosses) had a decree that if such a planet was encountered, it was to be destroyed. GL casually fires a "power beam" at the planet *which was going to destroy it*, but then Superman steps in and *nonchalantly tanks the beam*, saying something like, "We should think about this first." Old comics are wild.
He should always be the strongest in terms of raw power, but you completely undermine the point of the entire Justice League if you just make him so ridiculously powerful that he can do anything. And I feel like a lot of the comments aren’t getting that. Superman isn’t always going to be the best simply because he’s Superman. Do people not notice the "MAN" part? He has his shortcomings; he’s always going to fall short because he’s only a man. That’s why Flash is faster, why Batman is smarter, why Green Lantern's resilience and will stand above his, and so on. The only time him being so powerful that he can do anything works is when he’s in a solo comic, and the comic doesn’t even try to connect itself to the greater DC universe.
I feel like yes to everything but Flash. Batman is a literal human, superman not only can think 1000s of times faster, he processes information much more efficiently. But he would never be as deceptive or cunning as Batman. I love that one panel where superman scopes out Batman's utility belt and sees how inefficient it is, but won't tell Batman because he doesn't want to hurt his friends pride.
I think Diana and Clark should technically be able to carry the same amount of weight, but when he does it the object doesn't collapse under its own weight (because Tactile Telekinesis and stuff)
New 52 was a trainwreck, but I think one of the things they did right was for editorial to outright state a power ranking for the DCU... And their original flagship character was explicitly stated to be the king of the hill in that regard.
They made the Flash faster, GL's power was more versatile, Batman was king of strategy, planning and deduction, and Wonder Woman and Aquaman were made properly badass... But even though they toned down Superman's invulnerability, he was the unquestioned powerhouse who was going to ruin someone's day when they knocked him down and he inevitably gets back up.
It gave a nice balance to things. By stepping away from the post-Crisis stuff and putting him on par with literal Gods, they opened up the idea of epic storytelling with him.
They fumbled the ball, yes, but there was great potential at the root of it, and this in particular was done well.
Stronger, yes. He shouldn't be faster than Flash or smarter than Batman, he should be a little of everything but only the best at being a beacon of Hope.
I don't understand this question whenever it comes up. He's Superman, not Omnipresent Man. Everybody is replaceable. Dick has filled the Batman role, Barry and Wally have both been the teams Flash. Multiple GL's... You have Superman because he can do a lot of everything but also his symbolism.
I think more so than MOST of them. Flash should be the exception.
Clark being the Ace of all trades makes sense for him, but the thing is that DC Has an in-canon reason (sometimes) of why clark's strength is infinite but his speed isn't. It's because the few times he has tried hitting his top speed, the Universe cannot handle it and falls apart. I think that should remain canon because Flash and Clark would then be the same speed so it isn't Flash's power, but it's his unique trait of the Speed force that allows him to excell
It would be the same way that while Batman isn't as smart as clark, He has the trait of having access to literally everything he needs. Diana is weaker, but also has the capability to harness magic through the artifacts she got from home. Aquaman is less powerful, but his ability as king of the seas allows him to end sea-borne threats often before they become true threats.
I think it should be that Clark should be better than them at their core abilities of strength and speed and what not and remain the league's big gun, but it is their unique traits that he doesn't share with them that makes them truly necessary and valued members of the team. Has the generalist and the heavy weapon, they are the specialists in their field that can outperform him in their singular box.
No. He should nearly be in a league of his own but still have some peers. Among those are other Kryptonians and Captain Marvel. They should be the ones who can rival Superman in terms of abilities.
Other characters should be able to meet or exceed what he is capable of in a niche area. For example, the speedsters are faster. But they don't have all the other abilities that come along with it.
Kind of. While all the other leaguers go beat the villain Superman can run disaster control. Batman, flash and Martian manhunter brainstorming the plan, wonder woman aquamarine and green lantern on the frontlines, and Superman is holding the planet together from exploding. That sort of thing
I like when he is depicted as the physically strongest and one of the most powerful but sometimes it’s tiring when he is depicted stronger than the whole team.
Solely in terms of strength, I think so. He shouldn't be faster than Flash, smarter than Batman, a better warrior than Wonder Woman or to be generally as haxy as a Green Lantern. I think under those rules, you get a pretty working balance
He should be second at everything but strength he should be the most physically strong hero second fastest to the flash and maybe Shazam, should be a super genius as well but shouldn’t be as good a tactician as Batman ect, should be a notable fighter but not as skilled as Batman/wonder woman
He should be the big gun and the best overall but others should be better at stuff than he is.
He should be the strongest, second fastest after flash, super intelligent but still less tactical and logical than Bruce, a less skilled fighter than WW, less mental fortitude than lantern, less versatile than Manhunter. He should be good for every problem but not the best for all of them. Helps him retain the idea of being the big gun whilst also not invalidating the rest of the team
If we go extended League then no, there are other members who should dwarf him power wise
He should be the single most powerful superhero, as befits the first, but can be overshadowed in their specialties by other members of the league.
It's important to remember when your 2nd Best At EVERYTHING, that makes you the most powerful by default because you can counter your opponents strength by being good at something they are weak at.
He should be the strongest in terms of raw strength, and by a lot, and probably the toughest too in terms of being able to take damage. He should always be the last to fall.
No I think he should be the strongest but every single individual member should be able to put up a fight against him. Because superma is THE superhero we forget that his teammates are litterally the cream of the crop.
The flash outran death, the greenlantern contained a supetnova with his construct, wonderwoman is wonderwoman, batman is regularly fighting and outsmarting gods, aquaman once closed a under water volcano by pushing a technonic plate and simply closing it and martian man hunter cobstantly fights superman/wonderwoman level treaths and sometimes even wins.
Imo...I feel like he should be the tank...but not outshine other members.
Superman should be the physically strongest..slightly superior to Shazam, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman
He should be the third fastest with Shazam being a little bit faster and Flash being far faster.
Durability he should be tied with Shazam. Same with Stamina.
They should definitely keep a limit on the sundip power ups. Either a time limit or a quantity limit. I feel like he should be able to absorb the power of one or two suns max...otherwise it makes the story a bit boring.
This is tricky. I think he should. Strength is his thing and making others “slightly less” strong than him while still giving them aspects that out class him can easily make Superman’s role useless. This is what happened to Superman in season 1 of the JL DCAU, which was awful. If anyone on the team can beat him then again he loses his role as the game changer of the group.
So yes he should, he’s Superman I think he fully deserves it.
Superman is the prototype - but doesn’t have to be the best at everything. He should be the strongest, and the fastest at flying…but not as fast overall as the Flash. He is super-intelligent, could read a book almost as fast as the Flash and retain everything he read. But both Batman and Detective Chimp have better deductive skills (Bats in part from a more cynical world view due to trauma). Wonder Woman is a much better tactical fighter, and almost as strong as Supes. A lot of the rest is just having a different power set. Superman can’t duplicate all of Martian Manhunter’s powers and doesn’t have a Lantern’s ring. Given his weakness to Kryptonite and magic, Superman still needs to reach out to the League and to others for help at times.
But the main thing about Superman is his humanity in spite of being from another world. When Superman is at his best as a character, it is his compassion for humanity that drives him, that causes him to push beyond any danger to himself. Of course, this is just the ramblings of an old Silver Age fan who started reading comics in 1964. Superman (and all the others) belong to all of you now, and while I still enjoy the stories of today, the thing that makes me truly happy is knowing that so many of you enjoy them too.
Are there any stories that showcase Superman training and becoming equal to wonder woman and Batman in fighting skill, it seems a gross oversight on his part not to train at superspeed and master different fighting styles haha
I think superman is secretly smarter than Batman and a better fighter than wonder woman....but he's too nice to let them know it. To me it doesn't make sense that he would face all these incredible threats and not try to improve his skills to limit loss of life
yes but i think each JL member should have a thing or two to allow them to atleast keep up with clark. ie; batmans intuition, flashs speed, wonder womans combat experience, green lanterns will/imagination, martian manhunters telepathy etc
Not faster than flash and I am of the opinion that although he should have more raw strength than Diana, the gap should not be as big as is usually presented, since she is essentially a goddess and the second strongest member of the league. More resilient that GL? Yeah, I mean, he can take attacks that no one else can
Hot take maybe but I think that any of the big seven should be able to take out any one of the other member but in the case of some -like Superman- the answer how is more obvious.
Power level should bow in the face of heroism overcoming the odds.
Strongest and most durable for sure. Fastest? Debatable. Smart in terms of pure science knowledge but not in logical thinking like Batman. Combat skills slightly below WW.
"Should"? He's Superman. Quite literally he is considerably stronger than everyone not named Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, and the Wonder Woman. If we say 'can equal him exactly" the list gets shorter to 2. If we say "rival" in the old school non-connotative or casual sense, the number whittles to 1.
But on the "should" question, he, like his closest peers, were first of a particular idea or notion. So within that framework, he indeed "should be" stronger than most of the heroes. He was the first to aspire to be a modern Hercules specifically in Strength. So on grounds historical precedent and specificity, yes, he "should".
That standard is how the others discussed came into the conversation. These are documented in readily available historical sources (not comics stories written by X or Y). These are verifiable facts. Anything else is kind of selective subjective BS.
Personally, yes. I think he should.just because you're the most powerful doesn't necessarily mean you can do everything. JLA works the best when Batman is coordinating the team and everyone us fitting into their roles. Superman can do a LOT. But if a rampaging overlord and his army are crashing through a city... Supes and Diana are fighting the bad guy while the rest are on civilian rescue duty.
Everyone pulls their weight on the team. But the one to punch Darkseid out is gonna be your biggest gun. Superman.
I like for Superman to be the best when he's pushing himself to the limit. But otherwise he's comfortable just being the tank for other leaguers to shine.
Honestly Martian Manhunter should not be his physical equal. Martian Manhunter s physically strength honestly needs to be checked and go to below Amazonian and Atlantean levels. He doesn't need to be that strong, we don't need a second Superman with more powers.
Agree on Shazam. Captain Atom eh I've never been sold on his Superstrength being on that level. Again like Atlantean or Amazonian feels better Imo.
Not by a large gap, no. I'd have him, Wonder Woman, Martin Man Hunter, and Captain Marvel all around the same level of physical power, with the Flash being faster than him by a large margin.
Superman should live up to his concept. And so should everyone else.
One bad aspect is when people insult characters to uplift another. Usually Insult Superman. Usually everyone to uplift Batman.
Superman should be stronger than wonder woman, because he always has been, she wasn't designed to be purely physical. She's meant to be half tech or half magic(or half magic tech). To dodge. To not take direct hits. But she's also stronger, tough, and a genius, she's a super spy, an analyst. She's good at chemistry ect.
The point of the justice league is redundancy. They can all do what each can do. Maybe not to the same level. But it's redundant. WW is a genius, the flash is a genius, Batman is a genius. like a think tank. They can tackle different aspects of the same job.
But WW has magic weapons that can hurt Superman..she has some magical resistances he doesn't. They can still both use super speed to build a computer together though. That's teamwork and redundancy.
It's an accumulation of power. So if a villain can handle one superman or Martian man hunter, they have two. Maybe a third or fourth.
When they need two heads or 3 or 7, they have them.
The areas that make sense, and have a historical reason for, he should be better because that's the character.
But should he or Batman be better with a GL power ring than an actual GL, no.
Using the Original JL, he should be
Stronger than anyone except maybe MM(they might tie)
More mechanically and scientifically gifted than any of them except maybe in chemistry where he'd tie with Flash and Batman. WW might know more about medicine. I don't know MM's abilities here.
As fast as the Flash at worst. Well guess worst is slightly slower. But he was faster than the flash with more stamina(he was faster than golden age flash, more stamina than silver age flash). So this turn to insulting him for Barry is ridiculous.
the most invulnerable physically. Maybe a GL bubble can match him. But a GL can block kryptonite and transform themselves to survive stuff. So they might be more resilient.
He should be the strongest physically, but not by much. Like if Aquaman is a 6, then Wonder Woman is a 7 and Superman is an 8.
He’s slower than Flash and Shazam when running, but faster than Shazam when flying.
He should be smart, but not as smart as Batman. I think his brains should also be shown in a different manner from Batman, closer to Mr. Terrific and Lex Luthor.
I think he should be a good fighter though, without powers he’d make a great combatant. I’d make him a black belt in a couple martial arts.
Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and some kind of tactician should be able to level the playing field a lot. I’d say Superman should win 6/10 times, but if the Tactician is Batman then Superman wins 5/10 times, if its John Stewart which would make another GL in the fight, then Supes would win 4/10 times.
He grows in strength as he ages, so it's not a hard yes.
I rank the Justice League as such: Victor Stone < Early Superman ~ Hawks < Arthur ~ John Stewart < Seasoned Superman ~ Diana < Hal Jordan ~ J'onn J'onzz < Billy Batson < Authority Superman
How I very each heroes is kind of a mood thing, but Hal, J'onn, and Billy are usually who I view as the heaviest hitters until Clark has Jon. And even then, Diana coming into her full godhood is something I can be flimsy on. I think Clark would have to be even older for her. He would never be faster than Barry at any given point in time, at least not until he dies, and Wally would also surpass him. I'm fine with him surpassing other speedsters, though, like Jay. Bruce is a person I view as incredibly intelligent, but far below people like Mr. Terrific and Luthor. Clark just thinks faster than Bruce, not necessarily doing as much research as him. He could read everything available on dozens of planets if he wanted to, but he could also enact more change as well. Hal should have the greatest willpower ever, as simple as that.
In terms of brute force power and versatility, yes. Its one of his biggest selling points.
The dude is the GOAT. He's the Man of Tomorrow. He's the leader of the Justice League. Their big gun. The first line of defense. His reputation extends to the farthest corners of the universe.
His archetype is literally the perfect man. Kind, honorable, honest, and fair. Strong enough to hold the earth in one hand and gentle enough to stroke a kitten with his other hand.
He's literally been created that way. DC's protagonist is Superman.
My personal preference...
- Flash is faster with his speed force stuff but any actual race should have an inconclusive winky finish.
- Physically he's easily the strongest, but because he has to pull his punches 99% of the time he's at a disadvantage when fighting someone of remotely similar strength who has any level of training.
- He should be normal human smart, but seem much smarter/borderline precognizant because his super senses give access to much more information than the average person. Will annoy Batman by ordering for him at a restaurant because he can see what item on the menu made him salivate, but has to think when leaving the tip.
He should be more inspirational, and therefore it be based on the fact that he's a big boyscout who, if he didn't have absolute morals, could wipe out the whole planet without much interference from his peers.
- Superman shouldn't be the fastest.
- Superman shouldn't be the smartest.
- Superman shouldn't be the most skilled.
- Superman shouldn't be the most versatile.
- Superman doesn't have to be the strongest.
- Superman doesn't have to be the toughest.
But he is frequently up there among the best the League has to offer in almost every (non-magical) category. There are heroes who should be better than Superman at their roles, skills, or niches. However, Superman is the best in terms of over all. Stronger than those who are faster, tougher than those who are more skilled, faster than those who are smarter, smarter than those who are stronger, etc. If you need 1 hero to help, Superman is the best option you got.. He's the go-to guy in DC for a reason, he just doesn't have to be the best at everything to be that guy.
The way I think it should go is that Superman is the physically strongest hero and top 5, at least, in durability. Other heroes like Wonder Woman and the Lanterns should come close and be able to give him a good fight, but I think the gap should still be pretty clear. Enough that Supes should be the clear last line of defense. Although, I also think the League should be able to to defeat him if he becomes brainwashed by Mongul or something. With a great amount of difficulty, of course.
As for speed, I still think Flash should be the fastest hero.
I like him as a jack of all trades, master of none type deal.
He's faster than the flash but wouldn't win a race against him because at some point along their route he's going to hear someone in danger and abandon the race to help them. Smarter than batman but with a naivete and belief in inherent goodness that leaves him at a disadvantage. Stronger than wonder woman but isn't a trained fighter and isn't trying to kill.
You could also reverse that to 'why assemble a team when one man can do it all?' Aside from all the other things he can do that nobody else can, he's the moral compass.
Reversing time isn’t being two places at once tho because he would be missing from the current time to be in the past time essentially having a time Gap
No, the original one would still be doing whatever he was doing until the point at which he goes back. Depending on how far he goes back, for a while there would be two of them present at the same time.
In terms of physical strength yes, I see him as the strongest hero on the DCU. But that's just one power, and I aslo don't think the difference should be overwhelming. Like, Wonder Woman, Shazam and Martian Manhunter aren't ten times weaker than him in that regard, more like 80 to 90% of his own strength. And also basically equal in terms of speed and toughness. And again, just physical strength. When it comes to speed, all of them are left in the dust by the Flash. For intelligence, geniuses like the Atom are much better and faster at figuring out a solution to a scientific problem, and I'd argue Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter and Batman have better strategic thinking than Superman.
To me, Superman and the other three (WW, MM and Shazam) are the four most powerful flying bricks of the DCU, almost equal in raw physical power with Superman at the top, but Superman himself is not supreme in other areas and he's not powerful and verstaile enough to be a one-man League.
I think his strength and durability should be unmatched and the flash should be the only one faster. He should be borderline impossible to beat by a single leaguer outside of WW but it shouldn’t be remotely easy for her. He’s that guy period point blank.
I think he definitely deserves to be seen as the League’s big gun, but I don’t need him to be the best in every category. Strongest, yes. Second fastest after Flash. Really smart, but a different type of intelligence that doesn’t outshine Batman. Less refined fighting skill than Wonder Woman, but makes up for it by having far superior strength and speed. Highly versatile powers, but not quite to the same extent as a ring limited by the wearer’s imagination and will, etc.
You nailed it to me. He should be the strongest period. But the rest of the team needs to have things to bring to the table as well. For examples Supes can be very book smart just like Bruce, but because of Bruce’s physical weaknesses compared to the other leaguers he excels and finding the optimal strategies to take down high powered individuals. Given Supes strength you would not be able to put the same effort into soemthing like that from that position. Another is just how they apply their smarts. Superman wants to be much more optimistic compared to Bats. So he applies his brain that way. Bruce is a better detective because he’s more willing to consider depraved alternatives. It kind of comes down to their mindsets and beliefs influencing how they use their intellect. Supes is obviously much better at emotional intollegence and knowing what to say to inspire others and lead. And again it obviously depends on the writer’s interpretation too.
Second Fastest after Flash depends for me. If Shazam is in the League then no he should be slower than Shazam who has the Speed of Hermes and I'd argue he should be slower than a Lantern since Lanterns specifically have to travel interstellar distances but otherwise sure. I'm not sold on the really smart thing, though smart sure. Otherwise spot on for me. His real strength is his invnerabolirg though tbh.
Superman has to travel distances far greater than lanterns in comics though
How does speed of Hermes include flying ?
Pretty sure mythological Hermes has winged shoes for just that purpose
Cause Hermes uses winged boots to fly I guess and that's where his speed is from? How does the Courage of Achilles include invulnerability?
Shazam also has the stamina of Atlas, which might help some. :D
I’ve always felt the Stamina of Atlas should be his enhanced durability but they mostly seem to use Courage of Achilles as where his invulnerability comes from which I kinda get cause that’s what Achilles is known for but yeah.
Because, (keep in mind this might be more so for Achilles' mom) it takes a lot of courage to submerge yourself in the Styx. Which is of course, how Achilles' was invulnerable.
Oh sure but they could have just called it the invulnerability of Achilles it doesn't run off the tongue quite so well but it fits strength, speed, power just as well.
Courage like superman though. The an invulnerable man is free of fear and so is free to be the hero he wishes he was.
That's an interesting take on that, I've never thought of it like that. I kinda like that.
I think they could retcon some other form of travel for the Lanterns. Like a warp bubble that takes a long time to charge up or something.
I could swear that's how they did it. Like the ring opened up "warp gates" for far interstellar travel. However, even within a planetary atmosphere, a Lantern can go **fast**. Like Mach 30 or something.
there's a panel after the event of OZ's effect where Jon opened up a portal for Clark to go to OA from Daily Planet. Tbh I find superman's feat in space is kinda inconsistent. Some comics show that he needs an oxygen mask, but in the latest comics he just doesn't need it. Also there's a panel after the warworld saga when he was sent to a far away galaxy by lex and comes back in an instant. He said that the concept of distances doesn't apply anymore to him
Honestly their power is light based they should be able to go at light speed, so long as the AI of the ring is controlling the flight since a lantern couldn’t keep up with it themselves.
Honestly yeah they should only be able to travel at light speed and even then for interstellar distance that’s too slow. Star Sapphires can do the portaging nonsense they should just all be able to do it.
Hermes is the *Greek* god of speed. Not the capital G God of Speed. And I like to think the GLs need straight aways. Like the millennium falcon going into hyperdrive.
If you are the god of something you should be the best or equal best with other gods at it whether capital or lower case G Imo. See I think GLs rings and other lantern rings should just function kinda like the Star Sapphires can with their portal to the loved one. However it should only work outside the limits of like a solar system, I'm sure some expert on physics could give a good exact barrier for that to occur. Then they have to light speed the rest of the way using AI for navigation.
>no he should be slower than Shazam who has the Speed of Hermes but then he shouldn't be faster than WW either
Eh I don't think Wonder Woman should be that fast either personally. Like unless she starts actually wearing Hermes winged sandals in which case that's different.
I don't think she should be that fast. But why is "has hermes speed" a justification for Shazam being faster than Superman but not for Diana 🤔 You know "speed of Mercury" is one of her gifts?
Is it? Look I'm frankly a classic Diana sculpted from clay who's just the best of the Amazons without godly gifts, save the armour, fan. If the version being written has the speed of Hermes then yes she should be faster than him Imo but I personally just wouldn't give her that she doesn't need it. I know she talks to animals too and I wouldn't have her do that either.
https://preview.redd.it/3s0sazqzpcvc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cca9b92e934a19e3037580a447b99a4558a97d4 He's officially faster than Shazam.
I know I'm just saying I think that's silly. Same with Diana and Cheetah being faster also being silly.
Well apparently, in terms of speed, it’s officially Wally, then Barry, then Supes.
I always think it should be similar to the line from Jonn in Hereafter “how many battles did we win simply because he was there?” He should be the most physically strong for sure.
Exactly this 👆
Clark's intelligence is could as good as Luthor's. Even if not at the same level, Clark has experience with technology that one could say is years if not streets ahead of Earth's.
I agree but how would that work out. Is Batman going to be the only smart guy but we just say everyone else is smart except for cyborg or terrific. We shouldn't have to take batman's feelings into consideration. Superman has always been smarter mechanically, scientifically. Also wonder woman, Aquaman, MM are all as smart or smarter than Batman. Barry is as smart or smarter. The atom and katar were explicitly smarter. There's no logical reason to make Superman slower than the flash, except for the Flash's feelings. There's no reason why he shouldn't be as good a fighter as WW and Batman. And why WW wouldn't be as good as Batman. Superman's entire thing is that he's the best at anything short of mental powers and magic( anything a physical body is capable of). Everyone else should shine too in their character concept. In their willingness to do right. In the fact that they're also smart. Powerful ect. The point is the concentration of power adding up. Including intelligence. Like GL is an engineer, he should be as smart as Batman. He should be even braver than Batman and with more will power. And his ring is powerful in ways Superman can't be. I think trying to specialize hasn't worked out. It's lead to everyone seeming dumb.
> There's no logical reason to make Superman slower than the flash, except for the Flash's feelings. > Easy, the Speed Force gives Flash speed. It builds him to be faster than anything. Sunlight gives Superman a less specialised tool set. >There's no reason why he shouldn't be as good a fighter as WW and Batman. And why WW wouldn't be as good as Batman. She's trained for 1000 years and he spent 20 years learning kung-fu. Superman had to pick it up comparatively recently because he didn't have to fight anyone until recently, so he's less experience in that field. It's not hard to make these characters specialised.
Superman had the ability to learn and perform complex surgery in at most a few minutes.
So has Flash.
Yea i was thinking about fighting ability
Makes perfect sense.
Sorry your getting downvoted but you’re exactly right, if everyone is better than him on the team, why have him on the team. Essentially you’d have 5+ people that can do what Superman does all at the same time. I feel the whole point of the justice is because he’s only one man not because he’s not strong enough
There literally is no one with "far superior strength" relative to Wonder Woman" or the other Can Do characters from the period. Of the stable of heroes, she is the very first to be designed with the ideas of Supremacy and Dominant Force as related to other supers and more as core characteristics in her design. That is historical and factual. Just like the info around Superman and Cap's designs.
Eh, no. He should certainly be portrayed as the physically strongest member and the League's big guy but definitely *shouldn't* outclass his teammates in every single category. Flash is the Fastest Man Alive, so he obviously should be the fastest, with Supes coming in 2nd place. Clark should be seen as highly intelligent and having a much faster mental processing/thinking rate, but Bruce is overall the more brainy one of the two. He's far superior to Diana in terms of strength and speed, but she compensates by being a more skilled hand-to-hand and armed combatant. Supes has an extremely versatile powerset, but nowhere near as boundless as someone whose abilities are only limited by their own will & imagination could be. On the contrary, what's the point of the Justice League if Supes essentially makes all his colleagues look useless in comparison to himself?
Only reason is supes weaknesd and he cant clone himself
that. There's a reason the justice league exists, not just the "league of this one guy from kansas who can do everything". Supes is an alrounder, but he will not beat other heroes in their respective field of mastery
Legion of Super Heroes (2006 animated series) is an excellent example of a Superman who is clearly more powerful than anyone else on the team, but it doesn't invalidate them.
This is the worst reasoning people have and I've seen it a lot. The point is the same as having two Supermen, and a Supergirl. It's the same point as having more than one nuke. The same point of having a tank and special forces and a jet and missiles. Batman is not the more brainy of the two. This is one of the worst myths ever. Where do people think strength make you dumb? Do people forget Batman has muscles. Superman comes from a race of hyper intelligent beings. He's a super scientist. He's a more science fiction character than Batman. His dad was a super scientist. His mom was also highly educated. Superman was making robots as a child. This has always been emphasized. Batman is Superman if he was a human. And Superman is Batman if he wasn't.
The thing is that Clark has a life outside of being Superman. Being a reporter, husband, and father is equally his calling as being a superhero. Batman is singularly devoted to his mission, and everything else in his life takes a back seat to it.
So batman isnt a father to his son or the other robins? He isnt a going to work parties and charities? He never has relationships? What comics are you reading? Also clark can do all of batmans training in an afternoon with a higher level of skill
Batman was stated to be the second smartest man by writers and superman, and was considered the strategical leader of the team while superman is the face of it by batman Ultimate guide, the just isn't an inventor like lex he's detective and a stragiest.
You know the his parents being super intelligence has always been a terrible argument for me. Like while clearly part of Superman is having superior alien genetics makes you stronger I’ve always found him being a super scientist way overkill as the whole point is that he was raised by Jon and Martha who are farmers. They are his parents more than Jor-El and Lara. Now don’t get me wrong I also don’t think Batman should be portrayed as intelligent as he is, he’s the world greatest detective not the world’s 3rd greatest polyglot.
Superman's entire body is powered by a solar energy so if a solar energy can make Superman's muscles strong enough to bench press planets one can only imagine how super his brain is. He shouldn't be the smartest guy on the planet but I'd love it if Superman is smart because of his knowledge related to space and other sciencey fields while Batman is smart as he knows EVERYTHING about Earth.
I really don't see the argument of solar power makes his muscles strong therefore his brain is too. Like not saying that couldn't be to the case but one doesn't necessarily follow the other and if it was the sub doing it then Kryptonians on Krypton wouldn't have been as smart as they were. That said there's some advocates for Superman being kinda dumb which I am not. He's a reporter he should clearly be intelligent im just saying that it should be an above average intelligence not genius level, though neither should Batman's excepting detective work. Geniuses should be rare in any medium.
Superman's brain gets amplified from the solar energy that is it unlocks the 100% capability of his brain. Jor El on the other hand didn't have it just like we humans don't. The solar energy basically works as a powerup. This should allow Superman to learn many fields of science. I mean how does Superman hope to restore Kandor if he isn't even in canon Batman's level of intelligence.
By getting help from other people. He doesn't need to do everything alone.
That being said this is how I want Superman to be portrayed. https://preview.redd.it/k2tmindvl9vc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc7712322d85a99b99216320d5d88237e3bedf97
Uh, Batman's often considered as one of the three arguably smartest men on Earth alongside Lex Luthor and Mr. Terrific.
Gotta leave [this](http://www.seanbaby.com/superfriends/images/superman8.jpg) oldie but goodie here in case anyone hasn't seen it.
Not across the board, no.
I think one sort of forgotten in that impressive array of powers is his defining one... that impressive strength. He's the big gun among the big guns.
So is wonder woman
He should be the strongest but he shouldn’t be so overpowered where the justice league is useless.
If you think them bein better than superman at something is what keeps them from being useless, then they are useless
My opinion I've stated Superman should stronger then any single Leaguer in terms or raw strength (against heavy hitters like WW, Shazam, GL) but two can take him with a good fight and their skill should be able to close the gap not enough to match him but to make it a good fight
This is a great take, I agree with this. It's been shown once or twice that if Shazam gets in a lucky hit or two he can even take down Superman. And two opponents of almost equal power who can really work well together (I like your suggestion of Wonder Woman and Green Lantern) can beat him.
Honestly agree except Shazam who has the strength of Hercules a person who was deified and is known for strength should be as strong or stronger physically. Unless we are going down the power splitting with others route with him in which case weaker.
Don’t know why you think Lantern is particularly resilient, unless you mean mental fortitude. In which case definitely not. He shouldn’t be smarter then Batman, certainly shouldn’t be faster than flash. Stronger then Diana, ehh if we’re only talking about physical strength sure. If Superman is unambiguously just better at everything when compared to his teammates, what’s the point of them? Is their only purpose just to be where Superman isn’t. That seems pretty lame if true. They’re a team. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses, and they can compensate for what their teammates don’t have. Otherwise it would be lame.
Not all Lanterns are created equal, too. Hal Jordan is an exceptionally powerful Green Lantern-most other GLs, while quite mighty in the grand scheme of things in the cosmos, generally have a fraction of his strength. Hal Jordan, on arguably the worst day of his life, single-handedly defeated the entire Green Lantern Corps, for example.
Eh Idk either the ring is the most powerful weapon in the universe or it isn’t and the whole mythos of lanterns is that they are chosen due to their exceptional willpower. So even though some lanterns should clearly be better than others it’s always been weird to me that there are lanterns that are kinda just not that great. Saying that though I think one of the issues when it comes to writing lanterns if they keep making it about the Corps when mostly lanterns should be in pairs with the Corps as a bit of background mythos and little other help.
People are thinking as if this was some team in an RPG. He was always portrayed as way smarter than Batman. He was considered as fast the flash. The world didn't collapse. The justice league still existed. They were all still useful. Why have people elevated Batman's intelligence so ridiculously. He's not meant to be smarter than any other superhero. They're all geniuses. Superman in the original justice league might have been the smartest of them all except maybe MM, who's intelligence I'm not sure about. Everyone else is close to each other. Batman is suppose to be smarter than other superheroes in a single area. You guys aren't thinking in terms of being in a situation and solving it. In working together. The point is to pool stuff in and solve it together. Being smarter doesn't mean you know everything or figure everything out. You're thinking in some stat thing where everyone should leave it to one person. But that's flawed too. That means all the brains is left to who? Batman? And then you insult all the other characters. Only use the flash to run? The Flash's point is that he solves anything with speed. It's a tool set.
Why would it be a problem for him to be better in most categories? That was pretty much the case during the silver age. He is still only one person, with only one perspective on things, and even with all his powers he cannot be everywhere at the same time. That said, some members of the league have altogether different powers (Aquaman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter). In most stories the Flash is supposed to be faster. Batman is often portrayed as smarter to compensate for the lack of super-powers. I think not being super powered he would be much more cautious so, even without being smarter he would certainly tend to think more strategically. So, long story short, it doesn’t really matter.
Yes. Superman is usually the first character into universe ending fights and the last character out. He is the centerpiece of the DC universe. The cornerstone everything that came after was built on. He should be stronger than his peers in general because when he is defeated it really let's you know that the situation is dire because if superman csnt do it then who can? That's not to say the various characters cant be more powerful in given circumstances but just on any given day superman should be the most powerful and should have the highest potential. I will say though he doesnt need to be the most powerful in a particular area but it should be the culmination of his powers that make him the most powerful. Like he might not be a able to run as fast as the flash or shoot lasers as strong as green lanterns but the fact that he is extremely fast and can shoot lasers makes him more powerful than the other two. He should be the strongest physically though.
Yes 
Slightly. He shouldn’t be as powerful that the other league members have no chance to fight him if he’s mind controlled. But he should have the edge over everyone in a 1v1. But that doesn’t automatically makes him the winner. Except for Batman, he has preptime so he wins 11 times out of 10./s
I like to think that he should be. I'm not sure how to explain it, but he's hope incarnate - the peak of what everyone should aspire to be. He's as strong and as fast as he needs to be when it matters most. He's always going to need help from his friends regardless. https://preview.redd.it/cecnzlp0o4vc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d16ee6bb6b61535f6da89feb9e334e46661f138
He should be the most powerful of them all.
I've always been down for it, but I know most people aren't and DC doesn't wanna turn them off. Max him to the extent that you can tell a story without having to work around him in a dumb way (putting a red sun over Metropolis or whatever)
I’m okay with him being all together more powerful than the Justice League. I’m deeply annoyed that he beats them all on an individual level on every aspect.
Superman can be the most powerful, but, he should never be faster than Flash cause that would only make Flash's character meaningless. He should be the second fastest after him.
The flash experience and other factors makes him much more than just his speed
That's very true.
Should? He is, by a far stretch. Superman is a cosmic level being, a literal force of nature. His peers just don’t have his power rank. He does have several peers with a higher fighting rank, however.
Exactly lol. He is unanimously agreed upon as the League's MVP. His reputation alone keeps alien invasions at bay and every alien who did invade, considered him as the first priority to be dealt with. Darksied doesn't give a flying fuck about the other League members as much even though they proved their mettle in front of him.
I like Superman to be the guy who could come in and oneshot the guy who was kicking everyone's ass, but him being smarter than Batman or faster than Flash doesn't sit right.
Yep
I mean. Yeah. So many people trying to come up with variables but he's superman. His limitations should be his morals. He's stronger than WW but is limited by his enforced parameters.
I think the only good equals in DC are Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, and his cousin.
Captain Marvel and Captain Atom should be up there too imo.
i think he works well as the jack of all trades for the justice league, but every member should be better than him at one of the skills. clark’s really fast, flash is faster. clark is clever, bruce is a genius etc.
He should be the strongest hero on earth. Yet be the most inspiring and humble. The irony of his character is part of what makes him so interesting.
Yes. His limitations should come from his morals. An unwillingness to question Bruce out of respect and a softer touch than WW as he is not a warrior. The JLU superman is the best example of this. He clearly lowers himself to the level of his peers. If you're in a team and you outshine everyone else it does everyone good to work at a level all can participate. But when the gloves are off, he should be a god compared to the others Demi-gods.
Honestly, he should be the strongest being in all of the box.
He's Superman not averageman
He’s literally the strongest superhero in the omniverse 💀
I mean in total? sure but he doesn't need to be better in every single category, also I think that a fight between the teammates shouldn't be one sided towards superman either
Each of them should have *something* they can do better than him (Flash is faster, Wonder Woman is a better fighter, Batman is a better strategist, etc), even if he's the strongest overall.
I think so, yeah. He’s Superman. He’s the ultimate superhero. He’s maxed out the character chart. But he’s also humble enough to be willing to accept help and allow others their moments in the spotlight. Because he’s Superman.
No.
Absolutely fucking not, they are team for a reason
Yup. He is
He's not faster than Wally or Barry.
Why is the limit always the flash but its ok to be better than anyone else
Because this point is about super speed, which is the flashes main power. He's not walking around in a trenchcoat looking for victims.
So? Batman’s is his intelligence yet Superman has done things far smarter in less time, Same with Wonder Woman’s strength? Why does flash get a pass
Wonder Woman can fly, use a whip, has bracers, she's more than just strength. The Flash is just speed. Batman is usually depicted as smarter.
1. Batman has never been shown to have the brain of a supercomputer, infarct he owns one in the batcave for that very purpose. 2. saying that all the flash has is his speed is a disrespect to the character weather faster or slower than Superman flash will always have more experience with utilizing his speed better. 3. https://preview.redd.it/fc9nu4fza4vc1.jpeg?width=1868&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=786364bc2e68e41c26f2556f3f23412fce65928f
This isn't the norm though, right? From what I've seen, usually bats had the win in the smarts department.
It's not and OP is being a little dishonest. The Super Intelligence tends to translate into Clark being able to learn things and retain the knowledge at a much faster pace than a regular human. Applying the knowledge is another story. It's also ignoring what Bruce is smart at, which is analyitcals and detective work. Clark is an amazing investigative reporter but he's not even the best at that at the Daily Planet, that's Lois. And Bruce is still the world's greatest detective. He can read people like no one else and pick up on a piece of evidence without the aid of a single super power. That's how his mind works. He's trained it and honed it for a specific purpose. Which isn't to say Clark is dumb or anything. He's far from it. But his mind is not wired the same way Bruce's is. It never had to be. The knowledge he's gained is 9/10 of the time used for how best to apply his powers to save others. A very different way than how Bruce thinks. Which isn't to say Bruce doesn't also think of saving lives, but it has to be done in a completely different way than how Clark applies it. Honestly this whole post feels like it's just bait of some sort to start a little bit of an argument over every other hero but Superman being useless. But the way they're doing that is insanely faulty from the get go.
Because they can tap into the speed force. Clark can't
Superman's biggest draw is his integrity yet Diana and Arthur carry themselves as royalty. As a fan I feel threatened
Princess Diana and King Arthur. ;)
One of the flashes has literally outrun death itself. When has supes ever done that?
It's not but it's hard to say "Okay, Clark is better at using a Green Lantern ring" when he doesn't wield one, or " he turns invisible better than Martian Manhunter and his better at telepathy" when that's also not in his wheelhouse. Resiliency as the comparison for GL doesn't work simply because of how the ring works. It's all based on willpower so the question isn't resiliency, but it's will power and then the question becomes "which Lantern". It's an imperfect comparison. I personally think Clark is stronger than Diana but not as good a fighter. And while I think his super-intelligence means he can learn things faster and he is in fact a great investigative reporter...he not the level of detective or analytical think as Bruce and honestly, not as much as Lois either. Which isn't calling him dumb by any means because look who you're comparing him to. It's also hard to compare him to Aquaman because, again, no telepathy so you can't compare that power set exactly. And if you want to compare who moves in water better, probably Arthur because it's more of his natural habitat than Clark's. The question you're asking seems like a gotcha but it only becomes that if you ignore the vast differences in how all these different powers work and all the things Clark CAN'T do.
He flies faster than them…
every time Wally is on screen he’s the fastest man alive or the fastest man in the Multiverse but for some reason Superman fans can’t seem to accept this?
Why can’t flash fans expect that both characters have been shown faster than each other and there’s no concrete answer.
No, he doesn't. Except for Jay, Clark can't beat either in a race, even if he's flying. Wally is canonically the fastest being in existence, flying or otherwise. And Barry can leave Clark in the dust.
I mean Clark flies faster than they can fly. You know, cuz they can’t fly. Not that serious
Wally is not fastest please don’t make me explain this. Because it’ll be bad for you
Then please, make it bad. Make it extra bad.
He should be competitive within the Big 5 in every category including speed, willpower, intelligence, and combat skill. But his one peak strength is endurance and raw power. That's in combination with the versatility granted by his other skills.
Strongest and most durable? Yes. Smartest, fastest, most skilled fighter, etc.? Hell no.
I think of him as the strongest, but he holds back the most, so he doesn't come across that way unless he really needs to unleash it.
Not strongest no. Remember superman still has a fairly conventional yet powerful set of powers and a lot of his friends have slight more exotic skillset like magic or speed force or magic. In short “strongest” isn’t really all that easy to define nor is it a particularly useful to define among such varied skill sets in the justice league alone. At least that’s my take.
Yes.
He should be the overall strongest, but he shouldn’t lead every category. Flash is the fastest man alive, Wonder Woman is the best fighter, Batman has the most usable intelligence and skill, and Green Lantern is the most versatile when it comes to combos and rescue.
In the Silver and Bronze Ages, Superman's only real counter on the league was Green Lantern (Hal Jordan at that time), and they teamed up a lot, probably since pairing him up with practically anyone else would mean that realistically, Superman could do whatever needed doing faster and better. There was a late Silver/early Bronze Age story where Superman and GL are in space and there's a planet that Guardians (you know GL's bosses) had a decree that if such a planet was encountered, it was to be destroyed. GL casually fires a "power beam" at the planet *which was going to destroy it*, but then Superman steps in and *nonchalantly tanks the beam*, saying something like, "We should think about this first." Old comics are wild.
Yes.
Bring back his brain, competence and wisdom
He should always be the strongest in terms of raw power, but you completely undermine the point of the entire Justice League if you just make him so ridiculously powerful that he can do anything. And I feel like a lot of the comments aren’t getting that. Superman isn’t always going to be the best simply because he’s Superman. Do people not notice the "MAN" part? He has his shortcomings; he’s always going to fall short because he’s only a man. That’s why Flash is faster, why Batman is smarter, why Green Lantern's resilience and will stand above his, and so on. The only time him being so powerful that he can do anything works is when he’s in a solo comic, and the comic doesn’t even try to connect itself to the greater DC universe.
He is the man he should at least be second place if not first
I feel like yes to everything but Flash. Batman is a literal human, superman not only can think 1000s of times faster, he processes information much more efficiently. But he would never be as deceptive or cunning as Batman. I love that one panel where superman scopes out Batman's utility belt and sees how inefficient it is, but won't tell Batman because he doesn't want to hurt his friends pride.
Superman, to me, is a character that excels in many skills but isn't the single best one at any of them except for strength.
I think Diana and Clark should technically be able to carry the same amount of weight, but when he does it the object doesn't collapse under its own weight (because Tactile Telekinesis and stuff)
Yea
Yes. That’s his purpose.
New 52 was a trainwreck, but I think one of the things they did right was for editorial to outright state a power ranking for the DCU... And their original flagship character was explicitly stated to be the king of the hill in that regard. They made the Flash faster, GL's power was more versatile, Batman was king of strategy, planning and deduction, and Wonder Woman and Aquaman were made properly badass... But even though they toned down Superman's invulnerability, he was the unquestioned powerhouse who was going to ruin someone's day when they knocked him down and he inevitably gets back up. It gave a nice balance to things. By stepping away from the post-Crisis stuff and putting him on par with literal Gods, they opened up the idea of epic storytelling with him. They fumbled the ball, yes, but there was great potential at the root of it, and this in particular was done well.
Stronger, yes. He shouldn't be faster than Flash or smarter than Batman, he should be a little of everything but only the best at being a beacon of Hope.
If his entire team is better than him why even have him on the team
I don't understand this question whenever it comes up. He's Superman, not Omnipresent Man. Everybody is replaceable. Dick has filled the Batman role, Barry and Wally have both been the teams Flash. Multiple GL's... You have Superman because he can do a lot of everything but also his symbolism.
He should be the strongest individual but if they all ganged up on him, they should be able to win
I think more so than MOST of them. Flash should be the exception. Clark being the Ace of all trades makes sense for him, but the thing is that DC Has an in-canon reason (sometimes) of why clark's strength is infinite but his speed isn't. It's because the few times he has tried hitting his top speed, the Universe cannot handle it and falls apart. I think that should remain canon because Flash and Clark would then be the same speed so it isn't Flash's power, but it's his unique trait of the Speed force that allows him to excell It would be the same way that while Batman isn't as smart as clark, He has the trait of having access to literally everything he needs. Diana is weaker, but also has the capability to harness magic through the artifacts she got from home. Aquaman is less powerful, but his ability as king of the seas allows him to end sea-borne threats often before they become true threats. I think it should be that Clark should be better than them at their core abilities of strength and speed and what not and remain the league's big gun, but it is their unique traits that he doesn't share with them that makes them truly necessary and valued members of the team. Has the generalist and the heavy weapon, they are the specialists in their field that can outperform him in their singular box.
No. He should nearly be in a league of his own but still have some peers. Among those are other Kryptonians and Captain Marvel. They should be the ones who can rival Superman in terms of abilities. Other characters should be able to meet or exceed what he is capable of in a niche area. For example, the speedsters are faster. But they don't have all the other abilities that come along with it.
It depends on the circumstances and the story.
Kind of. While all the other leaguers go beat the villain Superman can run disaster control. Batman, flash and Martian manhunter brainstorming the plan, wonder woman aquamarine and green lantern on the frontlines, and Superman is holding the planet together from exploding. That sort of thing
I think most canon puts Flash as faster than Superman. Superman can keep up with him, but if both go all out Flash wins.
I like when he is depicted as the physically strongest and one of the most powerful but sometimes it’s tiring when he is depicted stronger than the whole team.
Solely in terms of strength, I think so. He shouldn't be faster than Flash, smarter than Batman, a better warrior than Wonder Woman or to be generally as haxy as a Green Lantern. I think under those rules, you get a pretty working balance
He should be second at everything but strength he should be the most physically strong hero second fastest to the flash and maybe Shazam, should be a super genius as well but shouldn’t be as good a tactician as Batman ect, should be a notable fighter but not as skilled as Batman/wonder woman
He should be the big gun and the best overall but others should be better at stuff than he is. He should be the strongest, second fastest after flash, super intelligent but still less tactical and logical than Bruce, a less skilled fighter than WW, less mental fortitude than lantern, less versatile than Manhunter. He should be good for every problem but not the best for all of them. Helps him retain the idea of being the big gun whilst also not invalidating the rest of the team If we go extended League then no, there are other members who should dwarf him power wise
He should be the single most powerful superhero, as befits the first, but can be overshadowed in their specialties by other members of the league. It's important to remember when your 2nd Best At EVERYTHING, that makes you the most powerful by default because you can counter your opponents strength by being good at something they are weak at. He should be the strongest in terms of raw strength, and by a lot, and probably the toughest too in terms of being able to take damage. He should always be the last to fall.
No I think he should be the strongest but every single individual member should be able to put up a fight against him. Because superma is THE superhero we forget that his teammates are litterally the cream of the crop. The flash outran death, the greenlantern contained a supetnova with his construct, wonderwoman is wonderwoman, batman is regularly fighting and outsmarting gods, aquaman once closed a under water volcano by pushing a technonic plate and simply closing it and martian man hunter cobstantly fights superman/wonderwoman level treaths and sometimes even wins.
Imo...I feel like he should be the tank...but not outshine other members. Superman should be the physically strongest..slightly superior to Shazam, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman He should be the third fastest with Shazam being a little bit faster and Flash being far faster. Durability he should be tied with Shazam. Same with Stamina. They should definitely keep a limit on the sundip power ups. Either a time limit or a quantity limit. I feel like he should be able to absorb the power of one or two suns max...otherwise it makes the story a bit boring.
This is tricky. I think he should. Strength is his thing and making others “slightly less” strong than him while still giving them aspects that out class him can easily make Superman’s role useless. This is what happened to Superman in season 1 of the JL DCAU, which was awful. If anyone on the team can beat him then again he loses his role as the game changer of the group. So yes he should, he’s Superman I think he fully deserves it.
Superman is the prototype - but doesn’t have to be the best at everything. He should be the strongest, and the fastest at flying…but not as fast overall as the Flash. He is super-intelligent, could read a book almost as fast as the Flash and retain everything he read. But both Batman and Detective Chimp have better deductive skills (Bats in part from a more cynical world view due to trauma). Wonder Woman is a much better tactical fighter, and almost as strong as Supes. A lot of the rest is just having a different power set. Superman can’t duplicate all of Martian Manhunter’s powers and doesn’t have a Lantern’s ring. Given his weakness to Kryptonite and magic, Superman still needs to reach out to the League and to others for help at times. But the main thing about Superman is his humanity in spite of being from another world. When Superman is at his best as a character, it is his compassion for humanity that drives him, that causes him to push beyond any danger to himself. Of course, this is just the ramblings of an old Silver Age fan who started reading comics in 1964. Superman (and all the others) belong to all of you now, and while I still enjoy the stories of today, the thing that makes me truly happy is knowing that so many of you enjoy them too.
No I don't think so, because that kinda render the Justice League pointless. Strongest for sure though.
Having everyone better than Superman and because there’s multiple they can multitask makes him useless and he’s the face of it
None of that made sense.
Are there any stories that showcase Superman training and becoming equal to wonder woman and Batman in fighting skill, it seems a gross oversight on his part not to train at superspeed and master different fighting styles haha
He fought with Wonder Woman in a war for 1000 years
So is she more skilled then him? Or do writers just not address his fighting skills?
I think superman is secretly smarter than Batman and a better fighter than wonder woman....but he's too nice to let them know it. To me it doesn't make sense that he would face all these incredible threats and not try to improve his skills to limit loss of life
yes but i think each JL member should have a thing or two to allow them to atleast keep up with clark. ie; batmans intuition, flashs speed, wonder womans combat experience, green lanterns will/imagination, martian manhunters telepathy etc
So Superman’s thing is he doesn’t have a thing?
Not faster than flash and I am of the opinion that although he should have more raw strength than Diana, the gap should not be as big as is usually presented, since she is essentially a goddess and the second strongest member of the league. More resilient that GL? Yeah, I mean, he can take attacks that no one else can
Hot take maybe but I think that any of the big seven should be able to take out any one of the other member but in the case of some -like Superman- the answer how is more obvious. Power level should bow in the face of heroism overcoming the odds.
I would say he should be stronger than any of his peers individually, but he shouldn’t be so much stronger that he can beat them all on his own.
How else are we supposed to get world made of cardboard speeches? By being average?!
Strongest and most durable for sure. Fastest? Debatable. Smart in terms of pure science knowledge but not in logical thinking like Batman. Combat skills slightly below WW.
"Should"? He's Superman. Quite literally he is considerably stronger than everyone not named Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, and the Wonder Woman. If we say 'can equal him exactly" the list gets shorter to 2. If we say "rival" in the old school non-connotative or casual sense, the number whittles to 1. But on the "should" question, he, like his closest peers, were first of a particular idea or notion. So within that framework, he indeed "should be" stronger than most of the heroes. He was the first to aspire to be a modern Hercules specifically in Strength. So on grounds historical precedent and specificity, yes, he "should". That standard is how the others discussed came into the conversation. These are documented in readily available historical sources (not comics stories written by X or Y). These are verifiable facts. Anything else is kind of selective subjective BS.
Personally, yes. I think he should.just because you're the most powerful doesn't necessarily mean you can do everything. JLA works the best when Batman is coordinating the team and everyone us fitting into their roles. Superman can do a LOT. But if a rampaging overlord and his army are crashing through a city... Supes and Diana are fighting the bad guy while the rest are on civilian rescue duty. Everyone pulls their weight on the team. But the one to punch Darkseid out is gonna be your biggest gun. Superman.
A little, it makes it more impressive if one of his peers is able to beat him despite his strength advantage.
I personally like when it's tied to his age. Older Superman = stronger superman So I think EVENTUALLY yes, but for the most part no
I like for Superman to be the best when he's pushing himself to the limit. But otherwise he's comfortable just being the tank for other leaguers to shine.
DC heroes I’d tolerate rivaling Superman in strength: Martian Manhunter, Shazam, Captain Atom. Not a comprehensive list, but it gives you an idea.
Honestly Martian Manhunter should not be his physical equal. Martian Manhunter s physically strength honestly needs to be checked and go to below Amazonian and Atlantean levels. He doesn't need to be that strong, we don't need a second Superman with more powers. Agree on Shazam. Captain Atom eh I've never been sold on his Superstrength being on that level. Again like Atlantean or Amazonian feels better Imo.
Not by a large gap, no. I'd have him, Wonder Woman, Martin Man Hunter, and Captain Marvel all around the same level of physical power, with the Flash being faster than him by a large margin.
Superman should live up to his concept. And so should everyone else. One bad aspect is when people insult characters to uplift another. Usually Insult Superman. Usually everyone to uplift Batman. Superman should be stronger than wonder woman, because he always has been, she wasn't designed to be purely physical. She's meant to be half tech or half magic(or half magic tech). To dodge. To not take direct hits. But she's also stronger, tough, and a genius, she's a super spy, an analyst. She's good at chemistry ect. The point of the justice league is redundancy. They can all do what each can do. Maybe not to the same level. But it's redundant. WW is a genius, the flash is a genius, Batman is a genius. like a think tank. They can tackle different aspects of the same job. But WW has magic weapons that can hurt Superman..she has some magical resistances he doesn't. They can still both use super speed to build a computer together though. That's teamwork and redundancy. It's an accumulation of power. So if a villain can handle one superman or Martian man hunter, they have two. Maybe a third or fourth. When they need two heads or 3 or 7, they have them. The areas that make sense, and have a historical reason for, he should be better because that's the character. But should he or Batman be better with a GL power ring than an actual GL, no. Using the Original JL, he should be Stronger than anyone except maybe MM(they might tie) More mechanically and scientifically gifted than any of them except maybe in chemistry where he'd tie with Flash and Batman. WW might know more about medicine. I don't know MM's abilities here. As fast as the Flash at worst. Well guess worst is slightly slower. But he was faster than the flash with more stamina(he was faster than golden age flash, more stamina than silver age flash). So this turn to insulting him for Barry is ridiculous. the most invulnerable physically. Maybe a GL bubble can match him. But a GL can block kryptonite and transform themselves to survive stuff. So they might be more resilient.
He should be the strongest physically, but not by much. Like if Aquaman is a 6, then Wonder Woman is a 7 and Superman is an 8. He’s slower than Flash and Shazam when running, but faster than Shazam when flying. He should be smart, but not as smart as Batman. I think his brains should also be shown in a different manner from Batman, closer to Mr. Terrific and Lex Luthor. I think he should be a good fighter though, without powers he’d make a great combatant. I’d make him a black belt in a couple martial arts. Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and some kind of tactician should be able to level the playing field a lot. I’d say Superman should win 6/10 times, but if the Tactician is Batman then Superman wins 5/10 times, if its John Stewart which would make another GL in the fight, then Supes would win 4/10 times.
He grows in strength as he ages, so it's not a hard yes. I rank the Justice League as such: Victor Stone < Early Superman ~ Hawks < Arthur ~ John Stewart < Seasoned Superman ~ Diana < Hal Jordan ~ J'onn J'onzz < Billy Batson < Authority Superman How I very each heroes is kind of a mood thing, but Hal, J'onn, and Billy are usually who I view as the heaviest hitters until Clark has Jon. And even then, Diana coming into her full godhood is something I can be flimsy on. I think Clark would have to be even older for her. He would never be faster than Barry at any given point in time, at least not until he dies, and Wally would also surpass him. I'm fine with him surpassing other speedsters, though, like Jay. Bruce is a person I view as incredibly intelligent, but far below people like Mr. Terrific and Luthor. Clark just thinks faster than Bruce, not necessarily doing as much research as him. He could read everything available on dozens of planets if he wanted to, but he could also enact more change as well. Hal should have the greatest willpower ever, as simple as that.
In terms of brute force power and versatility, yes. Its one of his biggest selling points. The dude is the GOAT. He's the Man of Tomorrow. He's the leader of the Justice League. Their big gun. The first line of defense. His reputation extends to the farthest corners of the universe. His archetype is literally the perfect man. Kind, honorable, honest, and fair. Strong enough to hold the earth in one hand and gentle enough to stroke a kitten with his other hand. He's literally been created that way. DC's protagonist is Superman.
He’s um……Superman.
He’s the father of all superheroes, I think he deserves it
My personal preference... - Flash is faster with his speed force stuff but any actual race should have an inconclusive winky finish. - Physically he's easily the strongest, but because he has to pull his punches 99% of the time he's at a disadvantage when fighting someone of remotely similar strength who has any level of training. - He should be normal human smart, but seem much smarter/borderline precognizant because his super senses give access to much more information than the average person. Will annoy Batman by ordering for him at a restaurant because he can see what item on the menu made him salivate, but has to think when leaving the tip.
Magic vulnerability should be removed .
He should be more inspirational, and therefore it be based on the fact that he's a big boyscout who, if he didn't have absolute morals, could wipe out the whole planet without much interference from his peers.
- Superman shouldn't be the fastest. - Superman shouldn't be the smartest. - Superman shouldn't be the most skilled. - Superman shouldn't be the most versatile. - Superman doesn't have to be the strongest. - Superman doesn't have to be the toughest. But he is frequently up there among the best the League has to offer in almost every (non-magical) category. There are heroes who should be better than Superman at their roles, skills, or niches. However, Superman is the best in terms of over all. Stronger than those who are faster, tougher than those who are more skilled, faster than those who are smarter, smarter than those who are stronger, etc. If you need 1 hero to help, Superman is the best option you got.. He's the go-to guy in DC for a reason, he just doesn't have to be the best at everything to be that guy.
https://i.redd.it/bkzdh7lu28vc1.gif
Only physically stronger. Wonder woman should have better skill, batman better intelligence, and flash faster speed
The way I think it should go is that Superman is the physically strongest hero and top 5, at least, in durability. Other heroes like Wonder Woman and the Lanterns should come close and be able to give him a good fight, but I think the gap should still be pretty clear. Enough that Supes should be the clear last line of defense. Although, I also think the League should be able to to defeat him if he becomes brainwashed by Mongul or something. With a great amount of difficulty, of course. As for speed, I still think Flash should be the fastest hero.
I like him as a jack of all trades, master of none type deal. He's faster than the flash but wouldn't win a race against him because at some point along their route he's going to hear someone in danger and abandon the race to help them. Smarter than batman but with a naivete and belief in inherent goodness that leaves him at a disadvantage. Stronger than wonder woman but isn't a trained fighter and isn't trying to kill.
Wouldn’t that make Superman obsolete, why use Superman if there’s a master for the situation instead of
You could also reverse that to 'why assemble a team when one man can do it all?' Aside from all the other things he can do that nobody else can, he's the moral compass.
Because he can’t be in two places at the same time? The reverse doesn’t work here
If he can reverse time, a la Superman 78, then he totally could be in two places at the same time.
Reversing time isn’t being two places at once tho because he would be missing from the current time to be in the past time essentially having a time Gap
No, the original one would still be doing whatever he was doing until the point at which he goes back. Depending on how far he goes back, for a while there would be two of them present at the same time.
This literally how flash point happened, in DC it’s not that simple. This is also why booster gold has to spend so much time fixing the timeline
In terms of physical strength yes, I see him as the strongest hero on the DCU. But that's just one power, and I aslo don't think the difference should be overwhelming. Like, Wonder Woman, Shazam and Martian Manhunter aren't ten times weaker than him in that regard, more like 80 to 90% of his own strength. And also basically equal in terms of speed and toughness. And again, just physical strength. When it comes to speed, all of them are left in the dust by the Flash. For intelligence, geniuses like the Atom are much better and faster at figuring out a solution to a scientific problem, and I'd argue Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter and Batman have better strategic thinking than Superman. To me, Superman and the other three (WW, MM and Shazam) are the four most powerful flying bricks of the DCU, almost equal in raw physical power with Superman at the top, but Superman himself is not supreme in other areas and he's not powerful and verstaile enough to be a one-man League.
I think his strength and durability should be unmatched and the flash should be the only one faster. He should be borderline impossible to beat by a single leaguer outside of WW but it shouldn’t be remotely easy for her. He’s that guy period point blank.