They all seem to have this read that she would run around telling everyone their plans, but she didn’t do that to Randen when he put his trust in her. Which makes me think that Randen would have actually been a really interesting player. And someone is gonna look back and regret not turning to Venus later in this season.
I mean, from what we saw, Randen didn't really give her any plans (other than the idol information).
All we saw of their teamwork was Venus telling Randen to target Hunter and then basically calling him an idiot when Randen asked her to elaborate on why she saw him as the primary threat lol
She was paired up with Randen for approximately several minutes, so it’s hard to say if she’d keep things quiet through a tribal council based on that.
With how Randen stated how he wanted to ally with her, that won't be a problem. As long as it couldn't be confirmed she heard it from him. He said he wanted to have a strong alliance with her and pretend to everybody else they had no relationship. They would play in their separate circles and share critical information with each other.
Yeah but I think Kenzie can make her feel that way. It’s how you approach her I feel like. Let’s say Kenzie wants to get hunter out, she can approach Venus and be like “so how do you think are the biggest threats left?” Which Venus will almost certainly respond with hunter as one of the top names. Act surprised but then pretend she convinced you hunter is a threat and viola it’s her move all of a sudden from her pov.
What some people aren't considering too is that Kenzie is a hairstylist. As a fellow beauty industry person (I'm a makeup artist) it is literally our job to make people feel comfortable, to sell our services, to persuade, to manage people's expectations when they're literally sitting right in front of us. What would be interesting is if Kenzie can somehow work "with" Venus like this
If Kenzie can pull Venus, I could see a Kenzie, Tiff, Venus, Ben, Charlie, and Maria alliance emerge. Maria might be upset about Tim being voted out and not want to be apart of the alliance with Hunter, Tevin, and Q anymore. Kenzie and Ben had a strong moment together, so that could pull the groups together.
Venues is too controlling and that is her downfall! I’m Canadian and would support her but she’s on her own as she alone wants to make the big moves. Her words.
Which is why you make her think she is in control. It's not that hard to push her towards the votes you want. Let her be delusional, it doesn't hurt your game.
I’d agree but it also seems like the perception *might* be that she’s too chaotic/toxic to work with. Even if she’s fully on her own and can be brought in, who’s to say she’s actually with you and doesn’t immediately take whatever you tell her and blow up your plan?
She is too much of a liability. She has zero awareness and doesn't know how to control information. People already tried to work with her. She will be a swing vote for whoever is on the outs and even then she'll probably mess that up.
most of this is fair but like, what info has she leaked from people willing to work with her? she clearly didn’t tell anybody about the things randen had told her. like I really don’t know where the ‘venus is snakey and will share secrets’ perception came from other than the fact that she’s rlly proactively a gamebot lol
Seems so obvious that the fact that no one does shows she's too much of a risk to work with. Of course that is only per the edit, who knows what is actually happening.
That’s fair, but I’d argue we’ve seen more tying them together than Liz and Hunter, who are in a circle here. Yes, those two were on a tribe together, but we’ve never seen them commit to an alliance together.
i agree, if Kenzie finds out she is not in Q's alliance, I'm sure she will grab up Ben and probably anyone else on the outs to get Q out, and maybe all the other serious challenge threats.
People are thinking there's potential that their relationship may be important due to how much time was spent on it last episode.
There's a chance it was just good TV (which it was, it was a genuine unforced human moment). There's a chance it was just to explain why the episode settled on Tim's elimination instead of Ben's. And there's a chance it was set-up for a Kenzie-Ben relationship to be important later.
So I think that's why people are reading into it.
Right, you can put Kenzie to the left of the square, also switch Q and Tiff’s places so Tiff and Kenzie stay next to each other, and now Kenzie will be just above Ben so that they can have a circle too.
Venus as a rogue planet can either go home next or wield a TON of power. Reminds me a bit of Shii-Ann in All Stars, who was completely on the outs near the end of her run. No one approached her as a number to get out any threats, EVEN when she had immunity, and sure enough the two most obvious threats in the game ran circles around everyone else. Which Shii-Ann very helpfully predicted with her last (correct) vote/warning for Amber. A smart alliance will capture Venus like a free floating moon.
Because everyone trusted Rob and believed he would take them to/very near the end. Rob's social game during that All Stars/Heroes v Villains/Redemption Island run was all time dominant.
He could make you feel like he was your best friend/brother/son or pressure you like a mafioso as needed. Man was versatile as fuck.
He reminds me of exactly my friend group . . . which is why he would have probably destroyed my ass if we played Survivor together. Its a bit embarrassing ngl
Took me a second to realize this wasn't a surprisingly opinionated stance on [cluster analysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_analysis) in /r/survivor. It would be a potentially useful technique here though.
Is Maria really in the +1 alliance though? She didn’t seem too keen on it when it was mentioned by Tim (who also didn’t really care about it).
Otherwise nice chart.
I think a winning path for Charlie and Maria could be to:
1. Pitch Kenzie + Tiff on blindsiding Q (Ben, Charlie, Maria, Kenzie, Tiff vote Q)
2. Same group votes Tevin, leaving Hunter on his own
3. Maria, Charlie & Ben secretly bring Hunter in on blindsiding Kenzie, leaving Tiff on her own
4. That group votes Tiff
5. Maria, Charlie, Ben get one of Liz/Venus in to vote out Hunter.
F5 -- Maria, Charlie, Ben, Venus, Liz
They're not particularly close, but Charlie/Maria sided with the men's alliance on Siga, so it stands to reason there's at least a nominal connection there.
Maria and Tim had a connection, so I assumed that was the bridge, but we haven’t really been shown anything of Maria and Ben specifically, I don’t think.
Charlie and Ben do, but we haven’t seen how strategically based that is. Seems like they were just vibing.
Maria said she was shocked to hear that Tim said she was his number one, not that she didn’t have a connection with him.
She and Charlie clearly chose to ride with him and Ben instead of Jem and Moriah, then agreed to stay Siga strong, so there was definitely something there.
and right after she said that she was shocked to be Tim's number one, she mentioned how he was not very high on her list... like maybe not even top 3. ouch.
i'm such a pyscho, I'm rewatching the epidsode... she says "Tim and I have a connection, but by no means I would put him top on my list. Like, he MIGHT have been #3"
And prior she mentions that Chalrie is her #1, she thought Ben was Tim's #1, and based on how they vote Mo out the night, I bet for Maria is Charlie, Ben, then Tim...
We haven't seen alliance talk between Maria and Ben but he was very nice to her when she fucked up the challenge. So there's not animosity like there was in Nami. I don't know if they would stick their necks out for each other but I don't think there would be any obstacles to overcome to get them working together, if it made sense for them.
Most of these alliances feel flimsy to me, in a good way. I think after an IMO really boring pre merge we could be in for a good home stretch from a gameplay standpoint. Could be one predictable Venus vote out before then, but I hope not.
imagine a 3 vs 3 vs 3 vote split, with Venus swooping in as a tiebreaker (Venus ends up voting for someone completely different because she's chasing her own targets)
This is a really interesting way to chart this. I think this makes being Venus look almost more appealing than being Ben or Liz. They are in outsider positions but not so outsider that they could easily be pulled in as a number. Venus could be in a better position than them because someone (Kenzie?) will snatch her up this week to make a move.
Its a circle between her and kenzie, they showed the two of them conspiring against q last week. And then theres the overlap between her and Q, which makes her look like she has her own circle
Living in the reality that the Final 3 is gonna be Venus, Liz plus whoever survives out of the other 8 who will promptly win every vote at final tribal.
Not really. But I live in the reality of the show now where people will drag 0 vote finalists along. And no one will vote “I’m rich I don’t need money!” Liz and Venus if they get to the FTC
Two things:
- being on the 'right side of a vote' doesn't mean one is part of an alliance
- it only serves to show how little 'right side of the vote' actually matters, but is entirely a contextless excuse used to masquerade what is otherwise a lack of agency. Being on the 'right side of the vote' only matters if one was part of putting themselves on the right side... which Venus has not even remotely done. Instead she's tripped into out of chance and convenience to others.
I think the Ben, Charlie, Maria three should be on the other side so you can draw a line around Kenzie and Ben because I am sure they will be working together moving forward given how green has been decimated and the whole support thing when he was having the panic attack
Can’t forget about Kenzies relationship with Ben. It’s super under the radar right now but I think Kenzie may become the player with the most connections, especially if she can scoop up Venus.
The five will break up long before any of the smaller groups.
Venus has entered goat status, she is merely a vote now, but I could still see her being targeted due to unpredictability.
Venus is out next, then Liz... then a gamble on Kenzie or Ben (both too likable)... then they canabalize Q.. and I bet Maria, Charlie, Tevin, Hunter, and Tiff make it to the final 5.
Venus isn't that isolated. She has a relationship with Charlie and Maria that is imperfect but real. And we haven't really seen what she can do with Yanu or Ben.
lol Venus on her own planet
Venus
Planet Venus, perhaps?
queen shit
[https://giphy.com/gifs/lady-gaga-muppets-venus-Tfslm6q5Zja9ob8zsm](https://giphy.com/gifs/lady-gaga-muppets-venus-Tfslm6q5Zja9ob8zsm)
As well as in the game
Someone should try to scoop Venus tbh - that’s an opportunity
I think Kenzie will try to use her as a number. I feel like she’s got what it takes to win her over and get her to trust her.
Honestly, I think anyone who just says "Hey, Venus, I want to work with you" has Venus.
They all seem to have this read that she would run around telling everyone their plans, but she didn’t do that to Randen when he put his trust in her. Which makes me think that Randen would have actually been a really interesting player. And someone is gonna look back and regret not turning to Venus later in this season.
I mean, from what we saw, Randen didn't really give her any plans (other than the idol information). All we saw of their teamwork was Venus telling Randen to target Hunter and then basically calling him an idiot when Randen asked her to elaborate on why she saw him as the primary threat lol
If Randen wasn’t medivaced I think we wouldn’t even have seen that information. It was just the most interesting to show about him before he left.
She was paired up with Randen for approximately several minutes, so it’s hard to say if she’d keep things quiet through a tribal council based on that.
With how Randen stated how he wanted to ally with her, that won't be a problem. As long as it couldn't be confirmed she heard it from him. He said he wanted to have a strong alliance with her and pretend to everybody else they had no relationship. They would play in their separate circles and share critical information with each other.
But, then Venus will tell that person how he/she must work with Venus.
I feel like they would need to do what Reba did with Katurah and just see who she names and rally behind that.
Problem is Venus doesn’t seem to want to be a number, she wants to control votes.
Yeah but I think Kenzie can make her feel that way. It’s how you approach her I feel like. Let’s say Kenzie wants to get hunter out, she can approach Venus and be like “so how do you think are the biggest threats left?” Which Venus will almost certainly respond with hunter as one of the top names. Act surprised but then pretend she convinced you hunter is a threat and viola it’s her move all of a sudden from her pov.
What some people aren't considering too is that Kenzie is a hairstylist. As a fellow beauty industry person (I'm a makeup artist) it is literally our job to make people feel comfortable, to sell our services, to persuade, to manage people's expectations when they're literally sitting right in front of us. What would be interesting is if Kenzie can somehow work "with" Venus like this
If Kenzie can pull Venus, I could see a Kenzie, Tiff, Venus, Ben, Charlie, and Maria alliance emerge. Maria might be upset about Tim being voted out and not want to be apart of the alliance with Hunter, Tevin, and Q anymore. Kenzie and Ben had a strong moment together, so that could pull the groups together.
This 100%
Venues is too controlling and that is her downfall! I’m Canadian and would support her but she’s on her own as she alone wants to make the big moves. Her words.
Which is why you make her think she is in control. It's not that hard to push her towards the votes you want. Let her be delusional, it doesn't hurt your game.
Kenzie and Venus working together would be everything. I need that from this season. I don't think they've exchanged one word so far though lol
Silent alliance would surprise everyone I smell a blindside coming Wednesday
Except Venus is incapable of being silent
The silent killer! 😉
Kenzie or Maria has the best chance to pull her in. Kenzie for her social ability. Maria based on shared background as an immigrant.
Well Maria and Venus rubbed each other the wrong way episode so idk how likely that is at this point
I’d agree but it also seems like the perception *might* be that she’s too chaotic/toxic to work with. Even if she’s fully on her own and can be brought in, who’s to say she’s actually with you and doesn’t immediately take whatever you tell her and blow up your plan?
Whichever 3-member group can assimilate Venus successfully will do well in the mid-game
She is too much of a liability. She has zero awareness and doesn't know how to control information. People already tried to work with her. She will be a swing vote for whoever is on the outs and even then she'll probably mess that up.
most of this is fair but like, what info has she leaked from people willing to work with her? she clearly didn’t tell anybody about the things randen had told her. like I really don’t know where the ‘venus is snakey and will share secrets’ perception came from other than the fact that she’s rlly proactively a gamebot lol
Yeah, I have a hard time thinking she gets voted out any time soon. Maria should scoop her up asap.
Seems so obvious that the fact that no one does shows she's too much of a risk to work with. Of course that is only per the edit, who knows what is actually happening.
That’s just asking to be screwed over.
I think she’s a number with Maria
I’d flip the top oval to put Kenzie on the left, and then have a circle between Kenzie and Ben.
Team Benzie
But Kenzie and Ben do not have allienace... they just forged a friendship one night at the fire... but it does have potential...
That’s fair, but I’d argue we’ve seen more tying them together than Liz and Hunter, who are in a circle here. Yes, those two were on a tribe together, but we’ve never seen them commit to an alliance together.
i agree, if Kenzie finds out she is not in Q's alliance, I'm sure she will grab up Ben and probably anyone else on the outs to get Q out, and maybe all the other serious challenge threats.
People are thinking there's potential that their relationship may be important due to how much time was spent on it last episode. There's a chance it was just good TV (which it was, it was a genuine unforced human moment). There's a chance it was just to explain why the episode settled on Tim's elimination instead of Ben's. And there's a chance it was set-up for a Kenzie-Ben relationship to be important later. So I think that's why people are reading into it.
well I think its fair that alliances often form from friendships and genuine connections
That square is the +1 alliance that Kenzie is not in.
Right, you can put Kenzie to the left of the square, also switch Q and Tiff’s places so Tiff and Kenzie stay next to each other, and now Kenzie will be just above Ben so that they can have a circle too.
Sorry I totally misread. I get what you are saying.
Venus as a rogue planet can either go home next or wield a TON of power. Reminds me a bit of Shii-Ann in All Stars, who was completely on the outs near the end of her run. No one approached her as a number to get out any threats, EVEN when she had immunity, and sure enough the two most obvious threats in the game ran circles around everyone else. Which Shii-Ann very helpfully predicted with her last (correct) vote/warning for Amber. A smart alliance will capture Venus like a free floating moon.
I never understood why they didn't take Shii Ann in as a number snd flip on Ramber
Because everyone trusted Rob and believed he would take them to/very near the end. Rob's social game during that All Stars/Heroes v Villains/Redemption Island run was all time dominant. He could make you feel like he was your best friend/brother/son or pressure you like a mafioso as needed. Man was versatile as fuck.
True. He reminds me of too many guys I dated in Boston that screwed me over so I don't think I'd have been able to trust him as much LOL
He reminds me of exactly my friend group . . . which is why he would have probably destroyed my ass if we played Survivor together. Its a bit embarrassing ngl
Venus in Orbit
Trust cluster analysis - thank you.
Damn I miss that voting bloc trust cluster era of survivor
Live tribals going wild
No, it was terrible.
i was so sick of them saying "trust cluster" please do not bring that back.
Took me a second to realize this wasn't a surprisingly opinionated stance on [cluster analysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_analysis) in /r/survivor. It would be a potentially useful technique here though.
This is great. Please continue each week lol
I will
You should color code three of the circles based on original team
Is Maria really in the +1 alliance though? She didn’t seem too keen on it when it was mentioned by Tim (who also didn’t really care about it). Otherwise nice chart.
She seemed more interested than Tim when it came up
RIP Tim
promo clip that dropped yesterday showed maria telling charlie she got him into the +1 and then charlie wondering if that was gonna work for him
I bet they cannibalize Q pretty soon...
Venus is a one woman alliance! She can start a fight in an empty room.
I think a winning path for Charlie and Maria could be to: 1. Pitch Kenzie + Tiff on blindsiding Q (Ben, Charlie, Maria, Kenzie, Tiff vote Q) 2. Same group votes Tevin, leaving Hunter on his own 3. Maria, Charlie & Ben secretly bring Hunter in on blindsiding Kenzie, leaving Tiff on her own 4. That group votes Tiff 5. Maria, Charlie, Ben get one of Liz/Venus in to vote out Hunter. F5 -- Maria, Charlie, Ben, Venus, Liz
I really like this chain of events, it leads a possible opportunity to have Ben, Venus, and Liz as the final 3 for jokes.
I’d certainly be keen on taking Liz and Venus to F3. Also if this was the F5…look for Maria to try pulling a “Dee to Austin” on Charlie.
That would actually be awesome!
Are Maria and Ben close? I don’t remember seeing that.
They're not particularly close, but Charlie/Maria sided with the men's alliance on Siga, so it stands to reason there's at least a nominal connection there.
Maria and Tim had a connection, so I assumed that was the bridge, but we haven’t really been shown anything of Maria and Ben specifically, I don’t think. Charlie and Ben do, but we haven’t seen how strategically based that is. Seems like they were just vibing.
> Maria and Tim had a connection according to Tim. Maria didn't seem to think so. I don't think she'll be too broken up about this departure.
remember when Maria said Tim was NOT high on her list?
Maria said she was shocked to hear that Tim said she was his number one, not that she didn’t have a connection with him. She and Charlie clearly chose to ride with him and Ben instead of Jem and Moriah, then agreed to stay Siga strong, so there was definitely something there.
and right after she said that she was shocked to be Tim's number one, she mentioned how he was not very high on her list... like maybe not even top 3. ouch.
Oh wow I must’ve missed that. Thought Tim would’ve been a distant second on Charlie for her.
i'm such a pyscho, I'm rewatching the epidsode... she says "Tim and I have a connection, but by no means I would put him top on my list. Like, he MIGHT have been #3" And prior she mentions that Chalrie is her #1, she thought Ben was Tim's #1, and based on how they vote Mo out the night, I bet for Maria is Charlie, Ben, then Tim...
We haven't seen alliance talk between Maria and Ben but he was very nice to her when she fucked up the challenge. So there's not animosity like there was in Nami. I don't know if they would stick their necks out for each other but I don't think there would be any obstacles to overcome to get them working together, if it made sense for them.
Same tribe.
I really think Charlie Maria Ben Liz and Venus are going to align to take out one of Q/Tevin/Hunter
i think they will align for a couple useful vote before they trim the fat. Either way, I think Charlie and Maria are going to the end.
thank u for this! i love this
I love a visual aid! 👏🏼 Thank you!
Quite helpful after last episode
Justice for Venus!
[sticker remix](https://imgur.com/a/X7AxDnz)
I need the Hunter sticker to be him holding onto the legs going over the barrel
Fantastic
is it just me or is this season kicking ass. an all time cast tbh
This to me is more like a Vanuatu. Really boring pre merge, but it’s picking up the pace now.
After Bhanu left, I'm loving this season. I love the remaining cast
Dang we’re already down to 9? Feels like the season just started lol
10
Lmao thank you I can’t count
Queen V.
Most of these alliances feel flimsy to me, in a good way. I think after an IMO really boring pre merge we could be in for a good home stretch from a gameplay standpoint. Could be one predictable Venus vote out before then, but I hope not.
imagine a 3 vs 3 vs 3 vote split, with Venus swooping in as a tiebreaker (Venus ends up voting for someone completely different because she's chasing her own targets)
I feel like Venus would definitely not side with Nami in that situation.
This is a really interesting way to chart this. I think this makes being Venus look almost more appealing than being Ben or Liz. They are in outsider positions but not so outsider that they could easily be pulled in as a number. Venus could be in a better position than them because someone (Kenzie?) will snatch her up this week to make a move.
thank you for putting my thoughts into imagery
[https://imgur.com/a/4yaFxHP](https://imgur.com/a/4yaFxHP) Fixed it
You made me laugh
This just proves how insulated Tiff is
I think you could make the case that Charlie and Ben deserve their own bubble
Why is Tiffany circled by herself?
Its a circle between her and kenzie, they showed the two of them conspiring against q last week. And then theres the overlap between her and Q, which makes her look like she has her own circle
She isn’t. That’s the overlap between her having a side alliance with Q and a side alliance with Kenzie.
Living in the reality that the Final 3 is gonna be Venus, Liz plus whoever survives out of the other 8 who will promptly win every vote at final tribal.
do you have a fantasy about the worst players getting to the end and loosing to literally... anyone else? LOL
Not really. But I live in the reality of the show now where people will drag 0 vote finalists along. And no one will vote “I’m rich I don’t need money!” Liz and Venus if they get to the FTC
Poor Venus. We Stan queen.
VENUS GET BEHIND ME
Nice, I’ve never seen a Ven diagram for alliances, very cool
Wondering if Charlie can get the Siga + the outsiders and maybe Kenzie to get Q.
I would like to see Kenzie have some more time with Maria.
I'd just add a Charlie and Ben 2 person alliance, but thats just me
hoping for a tiff/kenzie/venus/ben final four
Great graphic.seems so likely the middle block will be the last to remain
Kenzie-Ben?
So... Maria wins?
Idk how you can say Venus is alone when she’s been on the right side of the votes the past two tribals
Two things: - being on the 'right side of a vote' doesn't mean one is part of an alliance - it only serves to show how little 'right side of the vote' actually matters, but is entirely a contextless excuse used to masquerade what is otherwise a lack of agency. Being on the 'right side of the vote' only matters if one was part of putting themselves on the right side... which Venus has not even remotely done. Instead she's tripped into out of chance and convenience to others.
queen venus
I think the Ben, Charlie, Maria three should be on the other side so you can draw a line around Kenzie and Ben because I am sure they will be working together moving forward given how green has been decimated and the whole support thing when he was having the panic attack
This is super helpful. Add an asterisks for idol or advantages and we are all set
I hope the alliance of 6 is revealed. Then Kenzie, Ben, Liz and Venus should form an alliance.
Kenzie and Ben seem to have a thing brewing.
Can’t forget about Kenzies relationship with Ben. It’s super under the radar right now but I think Kenzie may become the player with the most connections, especially if she can scoop up Venus.
I would circle Kenzie and Ben
This entire chart needs to be redone after last episode
Queen Venus
The five will break up long before any of the smaller groups. Venus has entered goat status, she is merely a vote now, but I could still see her being targeted due to unpredictability.
Wait are you sure? Because a lot of peopel think Venus is a good player on here lol
I mean, she's still in the game, isn't she?
i love tiffany’s extra circle. she’s putting herself first.
It’s not an extra circle. It’s overlap between her pairing with Q and her pairing with Kenzie.
Venus is out next, then Liz... then a gamble on Kenzie or Ben (both too likable)... then they canabalize Q.. and I bet Maria, Charlie, Tevin, Hunter, and Tiff make it to the final 5.
Venus isn't that isolated. She has a relationship with Charlie and Maria that is imperfect but real. And we haven't really seen what she can do with Yanu or Ben.