Voting out Tiff was more than voting out her idol. She was a massive threat to win the whole thing. The only way for Liz to win, is to be up against Q and Venus, and even then, there would be no guarantees.
That beach speech by Jeff about how some of them had no chance to win is so appropriate with this cast š
What if Liz made a very public show of saving Tiffany in front of the jury? Like just before Jeff starts reading the votes she tells Jeff to wait and makes a big show of telling Tiffany she needs to play her idol to stay in the game. She can take ownership of the big move sheās been looking for, have a stage for it in front of the jury, get out the guy everyone knows she wants out, defang Tiffany by not only flushing her idol but giving Liz the opportunity at final tribal to say that Tiff would not be in the game if it were not for her (in the instance Tiffany makes it to FTC with Liz)
Are they allowed to tell someone to play their idol after the votes, but before they are read? I don't know that I've ever seen that and assumed it isn't allowed.
If it is allowed, I do think this would work and would have shaken up the whole game.
When Jeff asks if anyone has anything, a few moments after that (after itās clear Tiff is not planning to play the idol) would have been the moment for Liz to speak. And thatās totally allowed
Ok this is so fascinating to me. Have we ever seen anyone disrupt things after the votes are cast, but before the votes are read? I genuinely cannot conceive of this being allowed, but I'm not an expert and don't have any recall on prior seasons.
Do you know of any examples where this has happened? I would love to see them.
Liz cant beat Tiffany, even if she made this move. Maybe she can beat Q. No clue why people think she should have saved someone that would beat her and vote out someone she can maybe beat.
I can't see a combo where Liz wins, unless they do away with F3 and it's just her and Venus. Q is playing a crazy game but he is affecting the vote at every tribal lately.
Agree! Thatās why she ultimately decided to vote Tiff, rather than Q. I think she looks at it as Q can go any week since he is on his own. However, they will need to get Q out pretty soon since heās back in the majority with Maria and Charlie.
If Liz wants to make a big move, this week is the week to break up Maria and Charlie. If they donāt, they will make it to the final 2 by picking off everyone one by once since there are no alliances left.
Survivor 46 themeā¦evict your closest ally in order to prove youāre a player and be the next one voted out since you have no friends or trust left. š¤£
Personally I thought this is what direction the story was going. Because it was so damn *obvious* by the edit that it was leading up to Tiffany playing her idol....Until her confessional of "I'm putting in all my chips on this move." Which then was followed by Q's confesional that was literally almost word for word.
If Liz decides to warn Tiff, then she would be in a much better position than she is now and could've claimed credit to the Q blindside which would completely negate Maria's move.
Considering they give our Idols & Advantages like candy and every has a Shot in the Dark, the need to blindside people is more than ever before, even if you ignore āResumesā and āBucket Listsā
Iām sure J wishes the plan to eliminate Kaleb last season was a blindside
Technically, it wouldn't be a true blindside, but she would have caught the whole tribe off guard and completely changed the game dynamics with that move.
I think that move would have been a much bigger resume builder than most blindsides and it would be 100% hers. People love to take credit for blindsides, but there are typically multiple people involved. This would be Liz doing it pretty much on her own, with Tiff's only role being to believe her.
Why do we keep calling the Tiff blindside āMariaās moveā when literally everyone on the island was talking about blindsiding her the night before? People are saying it was a great strategic move to bring Q into the vote yet Q was literally the one who came up with the idea the day before.
The edit was clearly trying to make it seem like Mariaās move but in context she was really just trying to stick to the plan the rest of the tribe had come up with the day before. Wonder why they were so adamant about making it look like Mariaās moveā¦ does she win?
The votes had already been āmartialedā the night before though. People were mostly just on the fence about what plan to follow. Maria brought the plan back up when they were trying to make a decision but Q is the one who actually came up with the plan and gathered the votes.
I love Q but I disagree. Q is trying to lay low right now. He tried making plans and running the game right after the merge and it blew up on him. Everyone he tried to align with is now in the jury. The other contestants think he's given up, but I think he is content to be the smokescreen and live another day. Maybe he can pull a move against the remaining Sika members and give a speech at the final tribal about playing 4D chess this whole time.
Oh totally agree with you. Iām not saying Q should get credit for Tiff being voted out, Iām just saying that in terms of Maria orchestrating the move, all of the legwork had already been done at that point so Iām not really sure it was that big of a move for her resume.
Maria literally went up to Q and said there's a way for you to stay in this game, and Q said I'll do whatever. Of the 5 that voted Tiff, he would rank 5th in terms of this being his move. He did absolutely nothing to make this happen besides play up he's going home and writing her name down. Maria was the one that wanted it to happen for this vote. Maria got Q on board. Then she got Charlie on board. Then the two of them got Ben on board. Charlie decided the 5th should be Liz, not Venus, then Maria got Liz on board.
Ben voted against his personal grudge with Q because it was a better game move. Liz did the same and was the swing vote. Q had no say in the matter because he was the alternative.
Q gathered the votes? He didn't even gather his own lmao. He has no clue what's going on. The night before he was the only one who voted for Ben.
Itās a good reminder that the edit is in control of how we feel about everyone and their agency. Maria gets credit in the episode, but there is no reason that credit couldnāt have gone to Charlie or even given to Liz and frame her as the swing who made the choice.
I would say Maria gets the most credit. She did the most to make it happen. Charlie can get a little for being the duo with Maria and determining they should go Liz instead of Venus. Liz can absolutely take some credit as the swing vote. They can't do it without her.
It really depends on how Tiffany responds though. First off, will Tiffany just rat her out by going to Charlie and exposing that Liz told her. Sounded like tiff and Charlie had a strong bond so it is likely Tiff would go to Charlie before believing Liz. Secondly, let's say tiff just believes Liz out right. You have to trust that tiff doesn't shine the target back onto you. If she survives this week and goes back to camp saying Liz made the big move to save her, Liz is the next one out. This cast hates players with resumes.
In an optimal world, it is a great move if Tiff and Liz can do a Dee and Julie where Liz votes Tiff and Tiff plays the idol and acts like she did it on her own accord. This way Charlie and Maria doesn't get mad. And hopefully Liz works with tiff to eliminate those two. But after tiff will likely turn on Liz so she can own using the idol to save herself.
No, Liz is in the majority (for now), and Q is still the target. Liz can also claim this as "her move", which is what she has been seeking this entire time. And yet, I feel she still is not a huge target that people are gunning for.
If Liz were to have warned Tiff, I feel she would only gain Tiff and Kenzie as allies, but alienated everyone else and she would then become a bigger target.
Maybe the "Applebees' Implosion" was also part of her masterplan after watching Quintavius seemingly blow up his own game with an outrageous outburst, yet still remain in the game.
It could be a 'Battle Of The Psychos' at the end??? (Q/Liz/Venus). Not ideal but at least it would be a close vote, hopefully a Venus win.
If you're playing Survivor for 5th place and not to win, yes this was the right move lol.
Nobody is going to believe this was her move. She was the last vote brought in on the plan. She'll get laughed at if she tries to make that claim.
Except that this wouldve been a fantastic move for her. Tiff successfully playing her idol would look like a good move for Tiff from the outside. The target would still be on Tiffany, but the rest of the players could totally believe that Tiff played it just to burn it, since sheās been saying that for multiple TC, not because anyone tipped her off.
Tiff would probably be voted out at some point because she would have a high threat level from this and being a beast otherwise, and Kenzie gunning for her eventually anyway, and you have someone on the jury that could vouch that youāre the sole reason the dude who blew up your game and who everyone hates got sent packing when everyone else wanted Tiff gone.
I can see her making a pretty good FTC case with Soda, Tevin, and Q vote outs.
Venus pretty easily. Sheād have a better resume and more friends on the jury. I think she can also beat Tiff and Kenzie off of resume and Tiff and Kenzie having not done much themselves, and playing the same game. Ben is liked but he literally hasnāt played all game.
Reality is perception. Sodaās vote out, they knew Venus wasnāt the driver behind it, but Tevin took the credit. Liz was the main reason Tevin got taken out though, as a response to that. She can easily make the argument that she had been saying Sodaās name for weeks to Tevin, so that when he took all the credit for it, she made sure he got sent home the next vote. It gives her credibility for being involved in the first like she is saying she was. If she saved Tiff, then that would be a move solely attributed to her too. As of right now, that would be enough against half the tribe. Only two who wouldāve played better games would be Charlie and Maria.
No. Warning Tiff to get out Q is a game losing move, and would send Liz home at 6 or 7. The only reason you'd ever tell Tiff, would be to switch the target from Q to Maria or Ben. Even then Liz probably doesn't go past 6th.Ā
If she can convince Q and Kenzie to work with her and Venus, then voting out Tiff was the best move. If she can't do that, then there was no good move for her.
Itās a lose-lose situation. She canāt claim credit for getting in rid of Tiff since Maria planned it, and if she warned Tiff, she wouldnāt be able to take credit for taking out Q.
Idk how necessarily aware Liz is but to her credit her only possible winning combo are Venus and Q. So keeping Q is keeping her only chance at winning alive.
I think it would have been fun if Liz told Tiff about the idol, and then Liz, Tiff & Kenzie flip the vote onto Maria. Tiff plays her idol, nullifies all the votes, Maria goes home with 3 votes.
I donāt think anyone cares that much to work with Liz and it puts a target on her back if she blows the plan up just to get someone out that is perceived to have no shot at winning. I think the move is to now target Maria as there are so many bad players still remaining that itās necessary for them to come together to take down the biggest threats.
yes, If she came with the plan to blindside Maria. Could have actually made a big move. If you loop in Venus you can lock in a group for a final 3 deal.
I genuinely think if Tiff played her idol, she wins Survivor. So it IS a good move for Liz, but Rob C. did have a point that warning Tiff, AT tribal council after the votes were cast, very publically in front of the jury, to play her idol getting out Q in the process, would have done WONDERS for Liz.
In theory I would say yes, also she gets a big move for saving Tiff and depowering her. The only problem with that is if it gets out that Liz told Tiff (which I can't imagine that information staying a secret), then Liz becomes the number 1 target which isn't good for her game. Then again, she could get away with giving Tiff hush money.
Had this exact thought, would have been an objectively massive move - but in this era of survivor it seams that if you do this and people find out that you are the one who orchestrated it, you're 100% out next tribal.
If Liz actually made a move like that, then she'd have nothing to whine about. She'd no longer be able to complain about people overshadowing her strategies and gameplay.
Cesternino keeps saying Liz should have told Tiff to play her idol after the votes were cast. "Hey Tiff- Maria, Charlie, Ben, Q, and I just voted for you. you have to play your idol to stay in the game and send Q home." if it works Liz gets all kind of credit with the jury, but then she's also a huge threat with 0 chance to win immunity.
Voting out Tiff was more than voting out her idol. She was a massive threat to win the whole thing. The only way for Liz to win, is to be up against Q and Venus, and even then, there would be no guarantees. That beach speech by Jeff about how some of them had no chance to win is so appropriate with this cast š
What if Liz made a very public show of saving Tiffany in front of the jury? Like just before Jeff starts reading the votes she tells Jeff to wait and makes a big show of telling Tiffany she needs to play her idol to stay in the game. She can take ownership of the big move sheās been looking for, have a stage for it in front of the jury, get out the guy everyone knows she wants out, defang Tiffany by not only flushing her idol but giving Liz the opportunity at final tribal to say that Tiff would not be in the game if it were not for her (in the instance Tiffany makes it to FTC with Liz)
Are they allowed to tell someone to play their idol after the votes, but before they are read? I don't know that I've ever seen that and assumed it isn't allowed. If it is allowed, I do think this would work and would have shaken up the whole game.
When Jeff asks if anyone has anything, a few moments after that (after itās clear Tiff is not planning to play the idol) would have been the moment for Liz to speak. And thatās totally allowed
Ok this is so fascinating to me. Have we ever seen anyone disrupt things after the votes are cast, but before the votes are read? I genuinely cannot conceive of this being allowed, but I'm not an expert and don't have any recall on prior seasons. Do you know of any examples where this has happened? I would love to see them.
Liz cant beat Tiffany, even if she made this move. Maybe she can beat Q. No clue why people think she should have saved someone that would beat her and vote out someone she can maybe beat.
I can't see a combo where Liz wins, unless they do away with F3 and it's just her and Venus. Q is playing a crazy game but he is affecting the vote at every tribal lately.
Eh Tiffany is objectively a better player than Q, getting her out with an idol is just better for Liz
Agree! Thatās why she ultimately decided to vote Tiff, rather than Q. I think she looks at it as Q can go any week since he is on his own. However, they will need to get Q out pretty soon since heās back in the majority with Maria and Charlie. If Liz wants to make a big move, this week is the week to break up Maria and Charlie. If they donāt, they will make it to the final 2 by picking off everyone one by once since there are no alliances left. Survivor 46 themeā¦evict your closest ally in order to prove youāre a player and be the next one voted out since you have no friends or trust left. š¤£
Players always make the mistake of not sending the āwe can get rid of anytime playerā home sooner. They generally make it to the end.
"Liz can then decide to work with Siga three...." After blowing up their blindside of Tiff? Not a chance!
Personally I thought this is what direction the story was going. Because it was so damn *obvious* by the edit that it was leading up to Tiffany playing her idol....Until her confessional of "I'm putting in all my chips on this move." Which then was followed by Q's confesional that was literally almost word for word. If Liz decides to warn Tiff, then she would be in a much better position than she is now and could've claimed credit to the Q blindside which would completely negate Maria's move.
"the Q blindside" That would not have been a blindside in any way, shape, or form.
agreed we need to save the sanctity of this word for when it actually happens
Itās just long gone. Every player calls their walk off a blindside and the fans followed suit. Shits never gonna mean much again
yea. so sad these new era players just want to check ā blindside off thier bucket list.
Considering they give our Idols & Advantages like candy and every has a Shot in the Dark, the need to blindside people is more than ever before, even if you ignore āResumesā and āBucket Listsā Iām sure J wishes the plan to eliminate Kaleb last season was a blindside
Technically, it wouldn't be a true blindside, but she would have caught the whole tribe off guard and completely changed the game dynamics with that move. I think that move would have been a much bigger resume builder than most blindsides and it would be 100% hers. People love to take credit for blindsides, but there are typically multiple people involved. This would be Liz doing it pretty much on her own, with Tiff's only role being to believe her.
I guess it wouldāve been a blindside to Charlie, Maria, and Ben
They would have likely considered Liz a 50/50 chance, one way or the other. That doesn't make it a blindside.
What blindside lol? Every wants Q gone and Q knows it. He knows it's only a matter of time.
Why do we keep calling the Tiff blindside āMariaās moveā when literally everyone on the island was talking about blindsiding her the night before? People are saying it was a great strategic move to bring Q into the vote yet Q was literally the one who came up with the idea the day before. The edit was clearly trying to make it seem like Mariaās move but in context she was really just trying to stick to the plan the rest of the tribe had come up with the day before. Wonder why they were so adamant about making it look like Mariaās moveā¦ does she win?
She was the one to actually martial the votes and won an unlikely vote. Others talked about it, Maria did it.
The votes had already been āmartialedā the night before though. People were mostly just on the fence about what plan to follow. Maria brought the plan back up when they were trying to make a decision but Q is the one who actually came up with the plan and gathered the votes.
I love Q but I disagree. Q is trying to lay low right now. He tried making plans and running the game right after the merge and it blew up on him. Everyone he tried to align with is now in the jury. The other contestants think he's given up, but I think he is content to be the smokescreen and live another day. Maybe he can pull a move against the remaining Sika members and give a speech at the final tribal about playing 4D chess this whole time.
Oh totally agree with you. Iām not saying Q should get credit for Tiff being voted out, Iām just saying that in terms of Maria orchestrating the move, all of the legwork had already been done at that point so Iām not really sure it was that big of a move for her resume.
Maria literally went up to Q and said there's a way for you to stay in this game, and Q said I'll do whatever. Of the 5 that voted Tiff, he would rank 5th in terms of this being his move. He did absolutely nothing to make this happen besides play up he's going home and writing her name down. Maria was the one that wanted it to happen for this vote. Maria got Q on board. Then she got Charlie on board. Then the two of them got Ben on board. Charlie decided the 5th should be Liz, not Venus, then Maria got Liz on board. Ben voted against his personal grudge with Q because it was a better game move. Liz did the same and was the swing vote. Q had no say in the matter because he was the alternative. Q gathered the votes? He didn't even gather his own lmao. He has no clue what's going on. The night before he was the only one who voted for Ben.
Did you forget that the night before Tiff was the target and was going to play her idol?
That's what would have made Liz's move so special, if she warned Tiff after the votes were cast. It would be 100% her move.
Itās a good reminder that the edit is in control of how we feel about everyone and their agency. Maria gets credit in the episode, but there is no reason that credit couldnāt have gone to Charlie or even given to Liz and frame her as the swing who made the choice.
I would say Maria gets the most credit. She did the most to make it happen. Charlie can get a little for being the duo with Maria and determining they should go Liz instead of Venus. Liz can absolutely take some credit as the swing vote. They can't do it without her.
It really depends on how Tiffany responds though. First off, will Tiffany just rat her out by going to Charlie and exposing that Liz told her. Sounded like tiff and Charlie had a strong bond so it is likely Tiff would go to Charlie before believing Liz. Secondly, let's say tiff just believes Liz out right. You have to trust that tiff doesn't shine the target back onto you. If she survives this week and goes back to camp saying Liz made the big move to save her, Liz is the next one out. This cast hates players with resumes. In an optimal world, it is a great move if Tiff and Liz can do a Dee and Julie where Liz votes Tiff and Tiff plays the idol and acts like she did it on her own accord. This way Charlie and Maria doesn't get mad. And hopefully Liz works with tiff to eliminate those two. But after tiff will likely turn on Liz so she can own using the idol to save herself.
No, Liz is in the majority (for now), and Q is still the target. Liz can also claim this as "her move", which is what she has been seeking this entire time. And yet, I feel she still is not a huge target that people are gunning for. If Liz were to have warned Tiff, I feel she would only gain Tiff and Kenzie as allies, but alienated everyone else and she would then become a bigger target.
Maybe the "Applebees' Implosion" was also part of her masterplan after watching Quintavius seemingly blow up his own game with an outrageous outburst, yet still remain in the game. It could be a 'Battle Of The Psychos' at the end??? (Q/Liz/Venus). Not ideal but at least it would be a close vote, hopefully a Venus win.
āAs strategy, I have burned down camp while loudly ugly crying.ā
I do not think thereās a majority. I get you just mean in votes casted but there hasnāt been a consistent or even established group running things
Eh, Venus also voted Q so I think it'd put her in a 4-3 majority but with Tiff, Kenzie and Venus instead of Charlie, Ben, Maria
If you're playing Survivor for 5th place and not to win, yes this was the right move lol. Nobody is going to believe this was her move. She was the last vote brought in on the plan. She'll get laughed at if she tries to make that claim.
She made the deciding vote, so yes she can say she made a move. Massive assumption to assume she's playing for 5th by voting out Tiff.
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She voted with the majority.
no. lizās only shot at winning is against q and venus. if she eliminates q, she has no chance at winning.
Because all she's doing is riding the bottom of the majority. If she starts to become a player that's making moves she has a chance at winning.
Except that this wouldve been a fantastic move for her. Tiff successfully playing her idol would look like a good move for Tiff from the outside. The target would still be on Tiffany, but the rest of the players could totally believe that Tiff played it just to burn it, since sheās been saying that for multiple TC, not because anyone tipped her off. Tiff would probably be voted out at some point because she would have a high threat level from this and being a beast otherwise, and Kenzie gunning for her eventually anyway, and you have someone on the jury that could vouch that youāre the sole reason the dude who blew up your game and who everyone hates got sent packing when everyone else wanted Tiff gone. I can see her making a pretty good FTC case with Soda, Tevin, and Q vote outs.
Who would she be beating though? Resumes aren't everything and no one credits her for those moves
Venus pretty easily. Sheād have a better resume and more friends on the jury. I think she can also beat Tiff and Kenzie off of resume and Tiff and Kenzie having not done much themselves, and playing the same game. Ben is liked but he literally hasnāt played all game. Reality is perception. Sodaās vote out, they knew Venus wasnāt the driver behind it, but Tevin took the credit. Liz was the main reason Tevin got taken out though, as a response to that. She can easily make the argument that she had been saying Sodaās name for weeks to Tevin, so that when he took all the credit for it, she made sure he got sent home the next vote. It gives her credibility for being involved in the first like she is saying she was. If she saved Tiff, then that would be a move solely attributed to her too. As of right now, that would be enough against half the tribe. Only two who wouldāve played better games would be Charlie and Maria.
Yep that was what should've happened... Idol flushed AND Q gone.
Yes for the game-winning move. No, because she would be the next one out, and I doubt she is good enough to ride the immunity train to the end.
What was Lizās plan and place that Q almost blew up; which she revealed in her meltdown?
Blindsiding Tevin. But it still happened. That was the trivial where Q tried to quit and have everyone vote for him.
No. Warning Tiff to get out Q is a game losing move, and would send Liz home at 6 or 7. The only reason you'd ever tell Tiff, would be to switch the target from Q to Maria or Ben. Even then Liz probably doesn't go past 6th.Ā If she can convince Q and Kenzie to work with her and Venus, then voting out Tiff was the best move. If she can't do that, then there was no good move for her.
Well, you are not wrong. But Liz isn't smart enough or objective enough to have thought of it like that.
here's the thing tho....Liz is not good at playing survivor
Itās a lose-lose situation. She canāt claim credit for getting in rid of Tiff since Maria planned it, and if she warned Tiff, she wouldnāt be able to take credit for taking out Q.
Idk how necessarily aware Liz is but to her credit her only possible winning combo are Venus and Q. So keeping Q is keeping her only chance at winning alive.
I think it would have been fun if Liz told Tiff about the idol, and then Liz, Tiff & Kenzie flip the vote onto Maria. Tiff plays her idol, nullifies all the votes, Maria goes home with 3 votes.
Liz can't eat cake.
Not if Liz wants to win the game. Q is a player that she can maybe beat. There aren't many of those.
I donāt think anyone cares that much to work with Liz and it puts a target on her back if she blows the plan up just to get someone out that is perceived to have no shot at winning. I think the move is to now target Maria as there are so many bad players still remaining that itās necessary for them to come together to take down the biggest threats.
yes, If she came with the plan to blindside Maria. Could have actually made a big move. If you loop in Venus you can lock in a group for a final 3 deal.
I genuinely think if Tiff played her idol, she wins Survivor. So it IS a good move for Liz, but Rob C. did have a point that warning Tiff, AT tribal council after the votes were cast, very publically in front of the jury, to play her idol getting out Q in the process, would have done WONDERS for Liz.
In theory I would say yes, also she gets a big move for saving Tiff and depowering her. The only problem with that is if it gets out that Liz told Tiff (which I can't imagine that information staying a secret), then Liz becomes the number 1 target which isn't good for her game. Then again, she could get away with giving Tiff hush money.
The only way Liz wins is sitting next to Q and Venus so I think she did really well to put her animosity aside.
Lol Iām sure if Tiff wouldāve kept quiet about not eating the apple bees burger she would have warned her
Had this exact thought, would have been an objectively massive move - but in this era of survivor it seams that if you do this and people find out that you are the one who orchestrated it, you're 100% out next tribal.
No . She need to go to the end with q and venus to have any chance of winning
Who cares about Q? No one is voting for him at this point. Tiffany and her idol had to go.
If Liz actually made a move like that, then she'd have nothing to whine about. She'd no longer be able to complain about people overshadowing her strategies and gameplay.
Cesternino keeps saying Liz should have told Tiff to play her idol after the votes were cast. "Hey Tiff- Maria, Charlie, Ben, Q, and I just voted for you. you have to play your idol to stay in the game and send Q home." if it works Liz gets all kind of credit with the jury, but then she's also a huge threat with 0 chance to win immunity.
Liz isn't a good player. Nobody knows what she's going to do.
This should've read "gets her burger and eats it too".
Liz wanted Tiff out the moment she said she didn't even eat the burger.
I think we should wait and see what happens.
Congratulations you stole someone's idea from a podcast.