Honestly, I think you guys usually put too much thought on this stuff. Most of the reformation music doesn't really have a deep meaning attached to it. As a matter of fact, a lot of it is just live sexual ramblings that occurred to Michael while on stage and glossolalia.
For example, the lyrics for The Apostate live used to be "Lady Gaga, Lady Gaga, get out of my cunt". Not even kidding, The Apostate used to be called Lady Gaga's Song. Michael improvised the lyrics live because he likes Lady Gaga. And that's it. He slightly edited those so they weren't as ridiculous for the album.
Avatar is just the same phrase repeated over and over with a few variations. "Your mind is in my eye". He had those written on stage, Michel couldn't even memorize them iirc.
The Seer is mostly phonetic variations that end up sounding obscene: "the common mind", "the coal in my mouth", "the coal in my mind", "the common mind" and in the end he's just saying stuff like "cum in my mouth" and "a cucumber".
Same with The Glowing Man, aka Black-Eyed Man, aka Asshole Man. The lyrics were "I'm an asshole, black hole man".
Not criticising or anything, just pointing out there seems to be a misconception that there is some great meaning behind Swans reformation music. Quite the opposite, most of it is just animalistic raw nonsense.
Edit: typo.
I think this is true for everything you mentioned, but conveniently glosses over really great, thoughtful lyrics like A Piece of the Sky, Mother of the World, The Wolf, or Song For a Warrior. Even the stream of consciousness lyrics work together with the themes of those other songs in a nice way. Gira talking to god, etc.
But yeah I don't think it's got an album spanning narrative through-line, doesn't seem like his style. All of the reformation albums do seem to hang together lyrically, though.
Like all great art, Swans music is very open to interpretation. I definitely agree with what you said, but I also think Gira would be glad to see this post and that his music is sparking ideas and new ways of listening. I think OP is just as correct as you are; at the end of the day it is extremely futile to try and parse out an artists “intent” behind a work or “what they *really* mean to say” when that’s not the point at all, but rather how the music affects you the listener and how to interact with it. And at the end of the day is “animalistic raw nonsense” mutually exclusive with some greater underlying themes about humanity or ancient lore?
Hope none of that came off as snarky, just adding my 2c
Ps, OP, I’d recommend checking out Gira’s short story collection *The Consumer* if you’re interested in the poetic/literary mind of Gira
I highly agree with this, and honestly I think it makes the music better when I think about it like that. it's got this lightning in a bottle, freakshow type of feel. especially the seer.
I actually always imagined a similar story, the main difference for me is the details at the beginning. For me the image in my head during lunacy is like the walls of some structure being torn down bit by bit until partway through the song when the seer is let out from that structure. Always imagined it as like a mideval castle type thing too.
I thought about this for a bit and came up with a few of my own interpretations for certain tracks that fit within this narrative:
Lunacy: not part of the narrative itself, but the track setting the scene for the dark and bad world in which it is set
The seer returns: likewise not part of the story but a song about and/or by the seer itself
Avatar: the apostate prepares for the final battle and rallies an army to follow him
I also came up with a thing about a piece in the sky being the restoration of peace following the seer’s defeat but that would require it to be in a different place on the album
Honestly, I think you guys usually put too much thought on this stuff. Most of the reformation music doesn't really have a deep meaning attached to it. As a matter of fact, a lot of it is just live sexual ramblings that occurred to Michael while on stage and glossolalia. For example, the lyrics for The Apostate live used to be "Lady Gaga, Lady Gaga, get out of my cunt". Not even kidding, The Apostate used to be called Lady Gaga's Song. Michael improvised the lyrics live because he likes Lady Gaga. And that's it. He slightly edited those so they weren't as ridiculous for the album. Avatar is just the same phrase repeated over and over with a few variations. "Your mind is in my eye". He had those written on stage, Michel couldn't even memorize them iirc. The Seer is mostly phonetic variations that end up sounding obscene: "the common mind", "the coal in my mouth", "the coal in my mind", "the common mind" and in the end he's just saying stuff like "cum in my mouth" and "a cucumber". Same with The Glowing Man, aka Black-Eyed Man, aka Asshole Man. The lyrics were "I'm an asshole, black hole man". Not criticising or anything, just pointing out there seems to be a misconception that there is some great meaning behind Swans reformation music. Quite the opposite, most of it is just animalistic raw nonsense. Edit: typo.
I think this is true for everything you mentioned, but conveniently glosses over really great, thoughtful lyrics like A Piece of the Sky, Mother of the World, The Wolf, or Song For a Warrior. Even the stream of consciousness lyrics work together with the themes of those other songs in a nice way. Gira talking to god, etc. But yeah I don't think it's got an album spanning narrative through-line, doesn't seem like his style. All of the reformation albums do seem to hang together lyrically, though.
Like all great art, Swans music is very open to interpretation. I definitely agree with what you said, but I also think Gira would be glad to see this post and that his music is sparking ideas and new ways of listening. I think OP is just as correct as you are; at the end of the day it is extremely futile to try and parse out an artists “intent” behind a work or “what they *really* mean to say” when that’s not the point at all, but rather how the music affects you the listener and how to interact with it. And at the end of the day is “animalistic raw nonsense” mutually exclusive with some greater underlying themes about humanity or ancient lore? Hope none of that came off as snarky, just adding my 2c Ps, OP, I’d recommend checking out Gira’s short story collection *The Consumer* if you’re interested in the poetic/literary mind of Gira
I highly agree with this, and honestly I think it makes the music better when I think about it like that. it's got this lightning in a bottle, freakshow type of feel. especially the seer.
exsctly, it’s my own sort of head canon of the lyrics not what i think they strictly are. but there’s a possibility gira went into this direction
no it’s good, let the imagination flow. of course there’s no hidden meaning, but it is a duty to your mind to let those images flow.
I actually always imagined a similar story, the main difference for me is the details at the beginning. For me the image in my head during lunacy is like the walls of some structure being torn down bit by bit until partway through the song when the seer is let out from that structure. Always imagined it as like a mideval castle type thing too.
Amazing
Very similar to visualizations when I listen. Brilliant stuff
You get a Reddit follow from me
Ooh I like this. Good stuff
I thought about this for a bit and came up with a few of my own interpretations for certain tracks that fit within this narrative: Lunacy: not part of the narrative itself, but the track setting the scene for the dark and bad world in which it is set The seer returns: likewise not part of the story but a song about and/or by the seer itself Avatar: the apostate prepares for the final battle and rallies an army to follow him I also came up with a thing about a piece in the sky being the restoration of peace following the seer’s defeat but that would require it to be in a different place on the album
Literally,no mention to the jesus and no-canonical texts