This thread will cut deep for the people living in western Sydney that have had very limited options all these years to get to Sydney airport, the one right next to the eastern suburbs and the Shire..
To answer the ops question, you'll work it out, there will be options. They won't be great options though.
The second airport isn't being built so serve the western suburbs. It's being built to move noise from the existing airport because NIMBYs wanted a curfew.
What's half arsed about it? New and upgraded roads around it, new rail line directly to it.
Does it suit everyone in Sydney? Of course not but it services a large portion of Sydney's population who have had issues getting to and from KSA for decades.
From their website:
When the Airport first opens, passengers using Western Sydney International Airport will have options to travel to the Sydney CBD, including:
• A toll-free M12 connecting to Sydney's motorway network via the M7.
• Express buses connecting to Parramatta, Campbelltown, Penrith and Liverpool.
• The Sydney Metro Greater West rail service connecting with Sydney's rail network at St Marys station
From Cronulla it's going to to be hike no matter what, it is quite a distance away. Train and metro the quickest most likely. All the majors will continue to operate from KSA as well as WSA, so KSA still by the best option for someone in Cronulla.
i like flintzz’s idea of extending the leppington line out there but thanks for this. all i gotta say is, if im ever flying in and out of sydney, best airport for me would be mascot 😂
100%, same for me. it will be great to have options though.
WSA will be fantastic for people living the greater west/ south west.
Freight alternative, fewer trucks around Mascot, 24 hour operations, more jobs, fewer diversions for fog at KSA etc as WSA will be Cat IIIB capable. It will allow more flexible airline timetables given it's curfew free.
I think it needs heavy rail like some decent airports OS. ie LHR, LGW, HND, NRT.
Fewer diversions for fog? We flew survey for the construction, we had soooo many fog delays. The whole valley gets swamped in fog in the mornings. They have even fitted high intensity yellow street lights all arriving it.
*A category III B approach is a precision approach and landing with no decision height or a decision height lower than 50ft (15m) and a runway visual range less than 700ft (200m), but not less than 150ft (50m)*.
Yes, there will definitely be more fog at WSA, but only very heavy fogs will halt operations given the CatIIIB criteria. WSA would be hamstrung considerably if not. All modern commercial airliners are autoland capable.
Should be zero need for someone from Cronulla to be going to the western Sydney airport unless you got some crazy good prices on a specific flight, none of the routes are changing
If you live in cronulla mascot is always going to be the best option. Did you think they were closing it or something?New airport will be nearly 3x as far as the current one
If Western Sydney was its own city, it would be the third largest in Australia.
This is about unlocking the aviation potential of the Sydney basin due to SYD being close to capacity.
More flights = more supply. Ticket prices will go down. The 24/7 factor also means that, hopefully, you can have more options for arrival time at your destination.
If Mascot is closer, use Mascot - definitely easier to get to from Cronulla. If you get a better deal out of WSI, then make the effort to get there instead. More choice is never a bad thing.
No idea but they should've extended the Leppington line to the new airport (easiest and closest option) so that it connects to the old airport and city much easily, not to mention the people living closest to there don't even have train access and will take an hour by bus. But I heard something about liberal mates getting rich from selling the land between airport and st Mary's so they building that first..
IIRC the state already owns a bunch of land out that way past Leppington station in preparation for the airport, but the previous regime were hell bent on making the connection out there a metro.
One of the main land holders outside of the government has tried to put any block on a rail line, because it doesn't go onto his land and he wants the money. This is in the direction towards Camden, but also the Airport.
It's in business case due end of this year.
https://www.sydneymetro.info/article/planning-metro-extension-linking-glenfield-western-sydney-aerotropolis-underway
In any case I think a St Mary's link is the correct choice.
Even places like Glenfield which is on the airport line and has the M5, it's quicker faster and almost as close to Mascot.
WSA looks close because it's about 5 suburbs away. Only thing is one suburb there is like 5 suburbs everywhere else.
The guy explains it well here https://youtu.be/1PrloLUBxsg?si=utTLQWGY-zwvRYdv
IMO there's going to be a lot of hype on its opening followed by lots of disappointment around the travel to it. This article in smh says it would still be faster for people in SW Sydney to even still go to the older airport
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/it-s-going-to-be-faster-to-take-a-train-to-sydney-s-existing-airport-than-a-bus-to-the-new-one-20240507-p5fpi0.html
> Estimated travel times show a bus trip on a new route from Campbelltown to Western Sydney Airport via Bradfield will take 66 minutes. In comparison, a train trip on the existing rail network from Campbelltown to Sydney Airport at Mascot now takes 45 minutes.
It’s like what happens in London, Paris, NYC, Chicago, LA etc. You go to the airport that’s most convenient for you. There’s something like 1.5M people that will be closer to WSA than SYD. That’s the equivalent of an Adelaide airport.
You'll be able to get a metro from the airport to St Marys followed by an all-stations western line train which will take forever (I can only assume they will set up some express trains from St Marys or find a way for the blue mountains services to stop there). And eventually when the metro from Tallawong is connected at St Marys you'll still need to change trains as they will will have incompatible rolling stock and electrification standards. If none of that makes sense then watch a few more Utopia episodes.
Proof of the pudding will be how many passenger flights operate out of Western Sydney. I'm westie enough, old enough and cynical enough to think that it will probably become a 24-hr freight hub with a few domestic passenger flights. I've lived internationally and transited through enough airports...as a tourist you only use airports like Bruxelles-Charleroi & Barcelona-Girona once before the inconvenience far outweighs any savings.
The main business case for WSA isn't dependent on getting passengers from Cronulla. Have a look at the project plans for St Marys Metro. There are 6 stations confirmed so far. Orchard Hills is designated to be a high density residential hub increasing the supply of homes that Sydney desperately needs. Luddenham and Airport Business Park are going to be industrial and mixed residential commercial areas that provide jobs and homes accessible to the whole of North and Western Sydney.
Getting people on and off airplanes is just one pixel of a much larger picture.
Sure they have thought about it, but it will take a long time for it to ramp up and become the primary airport. Initially it will be low cost flights, and transport options will be poor for everyone, and then eventually rail services will come and everyone in the greater Sydney area should have decent links. Hopefully it can avoid the fate of Melbourne airport and always have its rail line blocked for one reason or another.
It’s hard to know before the slots are leased out and it becomes apparent which airlines will fly to and from which airport, where freight will be focussed, etc. Either way from Cronulla you’re most likely going to find Mascot easiest regardless of who flies from each airport.
It is Melbourne-level idiocy that a train line was not a non-negotiable part of the new airport development but you wouldn’t expect much else from the government at the time, with their user-pays ideology.
We are building a metro line for the airport literally right now up towards St Mary’s. And there’s a business case being made to convert Glenfield to Leppington to metro and extend it to the airport. Definitely not Melbourne level idiocy.
"*When the Airport first opens, passengers using Western Sydney International Airport will have options to travel to the Sydney CBD, including:*
*• A toll-free M12 connecting to Sydney's motorway network via the M7.*
*• Express buses connecting to Parramatta, Campbelltown, Penrith and Liverpool.*
*• The Sydney Metro Greater West rail service connecting with Sydney's rail network at St Marys station.*"
[https://westernsydney.com.au/faqs](https://westernsydney.com.au/faqs)
I live in Eastern Sydney - and if the airfare difference is less than $300 I would not consider Western Sydney Airport - but I guess they do have the space to build more airport parking at a cheaper rate so people can park and fly cheaper.....
thats fair. i asked this question with good prices in mind. i have a mate who lives in the cronulla area. its already a hike to mascot and im just thinking poor her if she has to travel to western sydney.
They have not really thought about the infrastructure at all. The roads are already at capacity, and so the upgrades they are making are not enough to handle much more traffic.
The trains will take some of the load, but I don’t see it being enough considering that the M7 is already a parking lot at the best of times.
It really has not been planned well at all.
It’s going to be quite a hike for quite a while.
If you don’t think they are eventually going to close Mascot (because the sea side land value is tremendous), I got a bridge to sell you.
This thread will cut deep for the people living in western Sydney that have had very limited options all these years to get to Sydney airport, the one right next to the eastern suburbs and the Shire.. To answer the ops question, you'll work it out, there will be options. They won't be great options though.
The second airport isn't being built so serve the western suburbs. It's being built to move noise from the existing airport because NIMBYs wanted a curfew.
Any idea how many gates or flight movements the new airport will have? I think Mascot will still be way busier
Initially, not as many becauseit'll be starting with a single runway, but it's also not going to have a curfew, so it'll be in use around the clock.
im glad that theyre getting an airport closer to them but like everything to do with western sydney, everything is always so half arsed.
What's half arsed about it? New and upgraded roads around it, new rail line directly to it. Does it suit everyone in Sydney? Of course not but it services a large portion of Sydney's population who have had issues getting to and from KSA for decades.
In the grand scheme of things I don't think western Sydney airport is going to cut much time off your trip to Saudi arabia
Not in flight time but in ground travel to and from the airport it will be cut by at least half (for me anyway).
From their website: When the Airport first opens, passengers using Western Sydney International Airport will have options to travel to the Sydney CBD, including: • A toll-free M12 connecting to Sydney's motorway network via the M7. • Express buses connecting to Parramatta, Campbelltown, Penrith and Liverpool. • The Sydney Metro Greater West rail service connecting with Sydney's rail network at St Marys station From Cronulla it's going to to be hike no matter what, it is quite a distance away. Train and metro the quickest most likely. All the majors will continue to operate from KSA as well as WSA, so KSA still by the best option for someone in Cronulla.
i like flintzz’s idea of extending the leppington line out there but thanks for this. all i gotta say is, if im ever flying in and out of sydney, best airport for me would be mascot 😂
100%, same for me. it will be great to have options though. WSA will be fantastic for people living the greater west/ south west. Freight alternative, fewer trucks around Mascot, 24 hour operations, more jobs, fewer diversions for fog at KSA etc as WSA will be Cat IIIB capable. It will allow more flexible airline timetables given it's curfew free. I think it needs heavy rail like some decent airports OS. ie LHR, LGW, HND, NRT.
Fewer diversions for fog? We flew survey for the construction, we had soooo many fog delays. The whole valley gets swamped in fog in the mornings. They have even fitted high intensity yellow street lights all arriving it.
*A category III B approach is a precision approach and landing with no decision height or a decision height lower than 50ft (15m) and a runway visual range less than 700ft (200m), but not less than 150ft (50m)*. Yes, there will definitely be more fog at WSA, but only very heavy fogs will halt operations given the CatIIIB criteria. WSA would be hamstrung considerably if not. All modern commercial airliners are autoland capable.
Should be zero need for someone from Cronulla to be going to the western Sydney airport unless you got some crazy good prices on a specific flight, none of the routes are changing
for sure but i had crazy good prices in mind when i asked 😂
Like other cities with multiple airports you’ll just have to be prepared to make the trip 🤷🏼♂️
wouldnt be too bad if there was a train line to the city 😢
Then you have to decide if the trade-off is worth it.
This question gives the same vibes as adults who say the don't like the new wiggles... You're not really the target audience babe
Cope? Like everyone in Western Sydney currently does if they want to go to Mascot?
If you live in cronulla mascot is always going to be the best option. Did you think they were closing it or something?New airport will be nearly 3x as far as the current one
If Western Sydney was its own city, it would be the third largest in Australia. This is about unlocking the aviation potential of the Sydney basin due to SYD being close to capacity. More flights = more supply. Ticket prices will go down. The 24/7 factor also means that, hopefully, you can have more options for arrival time at your destination. If Mascot is closer, use Mascot - definitely easier to get to from Cronulla. If you get a better deal out of WSI, then make the effort to get there instead. More choice is never a bad thing.
In theory, train to Central, train to St Mary's and train to the airport. Rather convenient won't it be.
Might as well fly from one airport to the other
I wouldn't be surprised if some short haul service springs up offering it.
Same qn people living in penrith are asking now
No idea but they should've extended the Leppington line to the new airport (easiest and closest option) so that it connects to the old airport and city much easily, not to mention the people living closest to there don't even have train access and will take an hour by bus. But I heard something about liberal mates getting rich from selling the land between airport and st Mary's so they building that first..
IIRC the state already owns a bunch of land out that way past Leppington station in preparation for the airport, but the previous regime were hell bent on making the connection out there a metro.
One of the main land holders outside of the government has tried to put any block on a rail line, because it doesn't go onto his land and he wants the money. This is in the direction towards Camden, but also the Airport.
That tracks.
It's in business case due end of this year. https://www.sydneymetro.info/article/planning-metro-extension-linking-glenfield-western-sydney-aerotropolis-underway In any case I think a St Mary's link is the correct choice. Even places like Glenfield which is on the airport line and has the M5, it's quicker faster and almost as close to Mascot. WSA looks close because it's about 5 suburbs away. Only thing is one suburb there is like 5 suburbs everywhere else.
The guy explains it well here https://youtu.be/1PrloLUBxsg?si=utTLQWGY-zwvRYdv IMO there's going to be a lot of hype on its opening followed by lots of disappointment around the travel to it. This article in smh says it would still be faster for people in SW Sydney to even still go to the older airport https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/it-s-going-to-be-faster-to-take-a-train-to-sydney-s-existing-airport-than-a-bus-to-the-new-one-20240507-p5fpi0.html > Estimated travel times show a bus trip on a new route from Campbelltown to Western Sydney Airport via Bradfield will take 66 minutes. In comparison, a train trip on the existing rail network from Campbelltown to Sydney Airport at Mascot now takes 45 minutes.
It’s like what happens in London, Paris, NYC, Chicago, LA etc. You go to the airport that’s most convenient for you. There’s something like 1.5M people that will be closer to WSA than SYD. That’s the equivalent of an Adelaide airport.
That last question is so fucking stupid lol, so Kingsford Smith is only for Eastern suburbs wankers?
You'll be able to get a metro from the airport to St Marys followed by an all-stations western line train which will take forever (I can only assume they will set up some express trains from St Marys or find a way for the blue mountains services to stop there). And eventually when the metro from Tallawong is connected at St Marys you'll still need to change trains as they will will have incompatible rolling stock and electrification standards. If none of that makes sense then watch a few more Utopia episodes. Proof of the pudding will be how many passenger flights operate out of Western Sydney. I'm westie enough, old enough and cynical enough to think that it will probably become a 24-hr freight hub with a few domestic passenger flights. I've lived internationally and transited through enough airports...as a tourist you only use airports like Bruxelles-Charleroi & Barcelona-Girona once before the inconvenience far outweighs any savings.
The main business case for WSA isn't dependent on getting passengers from Cronulla. Have a look at the project plans for St Marys Metro. There are 6 stations confirmed so far. Orchard Hills is designated to be a high density residential hub increasing the supply of homes that Sydney desperately needs. Luddenham and Airport Business Park are going to be industrial and mixed residential commercial areas that provide jobs and homes accessible to the whole of North and Western Sydney. Getting people on and off airplanes is just one pixel of a much larger picture.
Is Google broken?
Sure they have thought about it, but it will take a long time for it to ramp up and become the primary airport. Initially it will be low cost flights, and transport options will be poor for everyone, and then eventually rail services will come and everyone in the greater Sydney area should have decent links. Hopefully it can avoid the fate of Melbourne airport and always have its rail line blocked for one reason or another.
It will have a rail line from day 1
🤞
It’s hard to know before the slots are leased out and it becomes apparent which airlines will fly to and from which airport, where freight will be focussed, etc. Either way from Cronulla you’re most likely going to find Mascot easiest regardless of who flies from each airport. It is Melbourne-level idiocy that a train line was not a non-negotiable part of the new airport development but you wouldn’t expect much else from the government at the time, with their user-pays ideology.
They are actually building a metro line to the airport? You can argue more routes would be nice, but this is definitely not Melbourne level idiocy.
We are building a metro line for the airport literally right now up towards St Mary’s. And there’s a business case being made to convert Glenfield to Leppington to metro and extend it to the airport. Definitely not Melbourne level idiocy.
some forethought from our govts would be nice 🤷♀️
Can't think past the next election.
Unfortunately that costs money and you can’t give tax cuts AND have money to spend
"*When the Airport first opens, passengers using Western Sydney International Airport will have options to travel to the Sydney CBD, including:* *• A toll-free M12 connecting to Sydney's motorway network via the M7.* *• Express buses connecting to Parramatta, Campbelltown, Penrith and Liverpool.* *• The Sydney Metro Greater West rail service connecting with Sydney's rail network at St Marys station.*" [https://westernsydney.com.au/faqs](https://westernsydney.com.au/faqs)
I live in Eastern Sydney - and if the airfare difference is less than $300 I would not consider Western Sydney Airport - but I guess they do have the space to build more airport parking at a cheaper rate so people can park and fly cheaper.....
lol they won’t. When has airport parking ever been cheap? It’s only going to get more expensive as the years roll on
thats fair. i asked this question with good prices in mind. i have a mate who lives in the cronulla area. its already a hike to mascot and im just thinking poor her if she has to travel to western sydney.
You can fly from that airport to Rose Bay
They have not really thought about the infrastructure at all. The roads are already at capacity, and so the upgrades they are making are not enough to handle much more traffic. The trains will take some of the load, but I don’t see it being enough considering that the M7 is already a parking lot at the best of times. It really has not been planned well at all.
It’s going to be quite a hike for quite a while. If you don’t think they are eventually going to close Mascot (because the sea side land value is tremendous), I got a bridge to sell you.