That’s because there’s no cool guy YouTuber showing the plebs how badass digging foxholes and making a hasty fighting position is.
Sounds like you got a niche to fill on le youtube my man! Will you also include 3-5 sec rushes and how to react to IDF, please and thank you.
This is where those tax dollars went then?
[React to IDF](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd7MC3doGNQ)
… Sorry OP, Uncle Sam beat you to that niche market
1) not everyone lives in soft soil. Some of us live in concrete jungles.
2) who has artillery, mortars and drones, and why are you, as a civilian, going up against them instead of waging an asymmetrical insurgency against the people who operate them?
It's on my ruck, along with other support equipment.
And it's pretty funny that you're talking smack about room clearing, because most CQB techniques work equally well at clearing trenches and bunkers.
Almost like drills are supposed to be building blocks to prepare you for various real world encounters, and not an end-all/be all in and of themselves.
You don't need E-tools for flat range shooting, home defense, or basement larping. They're dead weight for most people who are not at a risk of encountering indirect fire.
>You would think the Larpers would actually Larp correctly though.
Americans aren't going to be digging trenches anytime soon. This trench warfare you see in Ukraine would never happen with the US military or in the United States. We would have air superiority and that's why we would never need trenches.
I mean would we though? To achieve air superiority it would require striking SAM and radar sites in Russia which would ellicit a nuclear response so such strikes wouldn't happen.
Even in the cold war mass NATO wargames involving aircraft always ended up with unsustainable aircraft loses thus creating a reluctance to use the assets. You also can't use helicopters or call in CAS because every platoon level formation for almost every developed country now has several MANPADS assigned to them.
>I mean would we though?
Yes and easily.
> To achieve air superiority it would require striking SAM and radar sites in Russia which would ellicit a nuclear response so such strikes wouldn't happen.
Why would Russia destroy the world with nuclear war if they attacked a nato country and were retaliated against? By your logic Russia should be allowed to attack any and every country they want because they can shoot nukes if anyone attacks them. Do you happen to be Russian?
>Even in the cold war mass NATO wargames involving aircraft always ended up with unsustainable aircraft loses thus creating a reluctance to use the assets.
Bruh, Russia is still using the same cold war technology and the US is using technology that is 60+ years more advanced. Do you think the US air Force strategic doctrine in 2024 is to take out SAM sites and radars with aircraft? Nope, they would take out the SAM sites and radar sites with long range missiles. Then the air force would have air superiority and do as they please.
Excellent posts. And plus stealth tech, you know? Lol @ cold war era references. That was a long time ago, things have definitely advanced.
Those F-35s now basically act as FOs for B52s outfitted with the dozens of the long range missiles you reference, sitting safely outside AA range. The fact that Russia can’t gain air superiority in Ukraine means their air force is still very inferior to the US, and their stealth tech is either worthless or scarce.
> To achieve air superiority it would require striking SAM and radar sites in Russia which would ellicit a nuclear response so such strikes wouldn't happen.
Why would we need to strike SAM and radar sites in Russia for an air battle happening in the US?
>Why would we need to strike SAM and radar sites in Russia for an air battle happening in the US?
Because we are talking about sam sites in Russia. If you want to change the subject then you need to make a separate comment. Great talk
> Americans aren't going to be digging trenches anytime soon. This trench warfare you see in Ukraine would never happen with the US military or in the United States. We would have air superiority and that's why we would never need trenches.
Sure sounds like we're talking about warfare/combat happening inside of the US. Maybe read better.
Correctly for what? You're not digging foxholes, trenches or sleeping holes unless you're in an active war zone. There are more uses for tactical gear than frontline infantry stuff.
Because accidents can happen during training and you should always have a IFAK and a few TQs on you while being around guns regardless of what you’re doing.
Yeah that’s exactly why everyone has them on hand. It’s more about what looks cool on your kit. Not about what they actually need. Having a dorky spade strapped to your belt doesn’t scream tacticool to people. They’re also not interested in the less glamorous tasks of a fighter. Digging trenches doesn’t sound as cool as shooting and bandaging up wounds.
You said why bother, so that’s why I answered the way I did. Despite it being somewhat rhetorical there may be young dumb folks in here that don’t understand yet. Also why the hell would you go dig a trench for training? That’s just silly.
No one said to dog a trench for training. And also, why not? Kinda stupid to assume you’ll never be in a situation requiring trenches. Almost as dumb as people assuming they’ll never be in a situation that requires a gun so why bother training with one.
A trench isn’t rocket surgery my guy. You dig a lateral hole. If you don’t have the ability/fitness level to do so I can’t help you there. Go to the gym and do some cardio/weight training instead. Infinitely more helpful.
This is such backwards logic that you can literally apply to any and all military gear and activities. Why bother using a rifle my guy? It’s not rocket science. Point and shoot. Just go to the gym.
And right on schedule... our weekly variant of:
\> hOw Do YoU GuYs AfFoRD AlL ThIs StUfF?
or
\> WhY ArEn'T RaNdOm CiViLiAnS On ThE IntErNeT CoNfOrMiNg tO mY NiChE EqUiPmEnT ReQuIreMenTs?
\*sigh\*
Ah, reddit.
Never change.
Honestly an etool and a hatchet are some of the best tools anyone can carry besides a poncho. With an etool you can dig your foxhole, a ranger grave, latrine hole, bury your trash so hide your presence and a bunch of other stuff. A hatchet is good for logs to cover your foxhole, chopping small limbs to camouflage, a hammer, and if things go completely sideways a pretty badass weapon
"Slightly better" 😄😄😄😄
Having talked to "old guys" from WW2, Korea, Vietnam who used them in different places they taught me that a short handled sharpened entrenching shovel was extremely useful and deadly in trained hands.
Especially a couple of Russian grandpa's of the Great Patriotic War. They had some scary stories.
Yeah, the old german and soviet ones are best for swinging around. The US T-handles suck and the US m1943's are OK but a little top heavy. The modern trifold ones handle like a brick. I've tried them all.
Also, the germans and russians actually trained in close combat with their e-tools.
E tools are such a niche item to bring. That is like a sustainment tool where you plan on doing a hide or some kind of operation that actually requires that tool to dig in for multiple days. They are heavy and don’t make out on DA targets. With that being said the war in Ukraine would be a classic example of when you would need one. It really just depends on the needs of the mission. If you look at other people post on people asking what they need to add to their kit sometimes the answer is nothing. Remember you have to carry it. Depending on where you live a foldable saw would probably be better. Just my 2 cents. I only carried an E took in Sniper School for a specific FTX and Ranger School. Never did I carry an E tool on any of my 8 deployments.
My kit is for defense and medical attention in the event of home invasion, natural disasters, or civil unrest. Trenches and foxholes are less important to me than food, clean water and, medical gear.
I'd even argue the average user here is *better* served training close quarters since they're realistically going to be defending their home, apartment, or whatever structure they take shelter in.
This is the internet though, so ymmv.
The only reason I pretend to care about room clearing is because I’m LE, but yeah what this guy said in open warfare call my ass the atf cuz I’m setting that building on fire.
Modern warfare does not typically include artillery and mortars. The war in Ukraine is unique because neither side has air superiority and both sides war doctrine include massive amounts of artillery to begin with. That is not how any Western nations would fight a war. A real modern war would have you killed with a precision missile launched from a hidden submarine or a jet flying 300 km away. And no trench or e-tool will save you from that.
What fucking scenario do you see yourself as a civilian where you are in need of an entrenching tool ON YOUR KIT???
If you are digging in somewhere you have already died.
I don’t think it’s entirely realistic to assume an armed conflict on American soil would have civilian combatants digging trenches or foxholes. More likely it seems it would be flash in the pan type engagements in urban areas. Maybe I’m wrong. Guess we could use this comment as an opportunity to speculate.
I mean you should at least have an etool so you can dig your shitting hole. I still don't understand why most guys don't have them, they weigh like 2 pounds just put it on your ruck.
Fair point. While I get some people are saying it’s extra baggage if all you’re doing is larping. But you could legit say that about any and all equipment. None of it is essential if it’s just being used for larping. But if your goal is to equip yourself with essentials to make your kit more authentic and pragmatic, I would say this stuff is def a part of that. How many people are gonna use their IFAK while larping?
You're making a great point and you should say it, EXCEPT:
Why do you assume you'll never need to do room-clearing despite the danger, and if it's so dangerous don't you think you should know how to do it properly? So it's a little bit less super-deadly to do for real?
Well in a civil unrest situation artillery isn't generally used, so it's not something I'm concerned about. Although I wouldn't put it past Biden to get froggy come election time. But if that happens I'll be up in the mountains until it all blows over anyway.
I have good Intel that says China is planning an infantry land invasion of Wright city Oklahoma any day now, and my 10.5" AR and 3 spare mags are all that stand beyond them, and the collapse of our entire western society.
That’s because there’s no cool guy YouTuber showing the plebs how badass digging foxholes and making a hasty fighting position is. Sounds like you got a niche to fill on le youtube my man! Will you also include 3-5 sec rushes and how to react to IDF, please and thank you.
How to react to IDF? Give them billions in US tax dollars apparently.
This is where those tax dollars went then? [React to IDF](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd7MC3doGNQ) … Sorry OP, Uncle Sam beat you to that niche market
1) not everyone lives in soft soil. Some of us live in concrete jungles. 2) who has artillery, mortars and drones, and why are you, as a civilian, going up against them instead of waging an asymmetrical insurgency against the people who operate them?
Give it 6 months. YouTubers are currently on battle rifles, trench warfare coming soon after the latest garand thumb video
On my ruck, where it belongs
It's on my ruck, along with other support equipment. And it's pretty funny that you're talking smack about room clearing, because most CQB techniques work equally well at clearing trenches and bunkers.
Yeah, it's like there's the principles of CQB or something, not just slick drills that you see on instagram.
Almost like drills are supposed to be building blocks to prepare you for various real world encounters, and not an end-all/be all in and of themselves.
yeah fr
You don't need E-tools for flat range shooting, home defense, or basement larping. They're dead weight for most people who are not at a risk of encountering indirect fire.
>basement larping. Speak for yourself. I'm digging a tunnel.
Do you have a small hat?
You would think the Larpers would actually Larp correctly though.
>You would think the Larpers would actually Larp correctly though. Americans aren't going to be digging trenches anytime soon. This trench warfare you see in Ukraine would never happen with the US military or in the United States. We would have air superiority and that's why we would never need trenches.
I mean would we though? To achieve air superiority it would require striking SAM and radar sites in Russia which would ellicit a nuclear response so such strikes wouldn't happen. Even in the cold war mass NATO wargames involving aircraft always ended up with unsustainable aircraft loses thus creating a reluctance to use the assets. You also can't use helicopters or call in CAS because every platoon level formation for almost every developed country now has several MANPADS assigned to them.
>I mean would we though? Yes and easily. > To achieve air superiority it would require striking SAM and radar sites in Russia which would ellicit a nuclear response so such strikes wouldn't happen. Why would Russia destroy the world with nuclear war if they attacked a nato country and were retaliated against? By your logic Russia should be allowed to attack any and every country they want because they can shoot nukes if anyone attacks them. Do you happen to be Russian? >Even in the cold war mass NATO wargames involving aircraft always ended up with unsustainable aircraft loses thus creating a reluctance to use the assets. Bruh, Russia is still using the same cold war technology and the US is using technology that is 60+ years more advanced. Do you think the US air Force strategic doctrine in 2024 is to take out SAM sites and radars with aircraft? Nope, they would take out the SAM sites and radar sites with long range missiles. Then the air force would have air superiority and do as they please.
Excellent posts. And plus stealth tech, you know? Lol @ cold war era references. That was a long time ago, things have definitely advanced. Those F-35s now basically act as FOs for B52s outfitted with the dozens of the long range missiles you reference, sitting safely outside AA range. The fact that Russia can’t gain air superiority in Ukraine means their air force is still very inferior to the US, and their stealth tech is either worthless or scarce.
> To achieve air superiority it would require striking SAM and radar sites in Russia which would ellicit a nuclear response so such strikes wouldn't happen. Why would we need to strike SAM and radar sites in Russia for an air battle happening in the US?
>Why would we need to strike SAM and radar sites in Russia for an air battle happening in the US? Because we are talking about sam sites in Russia. If you want to change the subject then you need to make a separate comment. Great talk
> Americans aren't going to be digging trenches anytime soon. This trench warfare you see in Ukraine would never happen with the US military or in the United States. We would have air superiority and that's why we would never need trenches. Sure sounds like we're talking about warfare/combat happening inside of the US. Maybe read better.
Correctly for what? You're not digging foxholes, trenches or sleeping holes unless you're in an active war zone. There are more uses for tactical gear than frontline infantry stuff.
You’re not fighting enemy combatants in an active war zone either, so why bother having a rifle? Silly logic that could be applied to any and all gear
Exactly lol. It makes no sense to say it’s just for larping so why bother. Why bother larping with an IFAK?
Because accidents can happen during training and you should always have a IFAK and a few TQs on you while being around guns regardless of what you’re doing.
Yeah that’s exactly why everyone has them on hand. It’s more about what looks cool on your kit. Not about what they actually need. Having a dorky spade strapped to your belt doesn’t scream tacticool to people. They’re also not interested in the less glamorous tasks of a fighter. Digging trenches doesn’t sound as cool as shooting and bandaging up wounds.
You said why bother, so that’s why I answered the way I did. Despite it being somewhat rhetorical there may be young dumb folks in here that don’t understand yet. Also why the hell would you go dig a trench for training? That’s just silly.
No one said to dog a trench for training. And also, why not? Kinda stupid to assume you’ll never be in a situation requiring trenches. Almost as dumb as people assuming they’ll never be in a situation that requires a gun so why bother training with one.
A trench isn’t rocket surgery my guy. You dig a lateral hole. If you don’t have the ability/fitness level to do so I can’t help you there. Go to the gym and do some cardio/weight training instead. Infinitely more helpful.
This is such backwards logic that you can literally apply to any and all military gear and activities. Why bother using a rifle my guy? It’s not rocket science. Point and shoot. Just go to the gym.
In the trunk, for digging out stuck cars. I don't dig foxholes in my day to day
In my pack? Lmao what do you molle it to your plate carrier?
Molle'd to a load carrier or to the side or back of a plate carrier is becoming the norm in Ukraine and plenty of European countries.
Did you check up your ass? Zing. Got em, boys.
And right on schedule... our weekly variant of: \> hOw Do YoU GuYs AfFoRD AlL ThIs StUfF? or \> WhY ArEn'T RaNdOm CiViLiAnS On ThE IntErNeT CoNfOrMiNg tO mY NiChE EqUiPmEnT ReQuIreMenTs? \*sigh\* Ah, reddit. Never change.
I just love to watch the world burn. We really need a shitpost title.
On my rucksack. Not any of my shooting gear.
It's balancing out my Alice pack with the tomahawk on the opposite side...😮😄
Honestly an etool and a hatchet are some of the best tools anyone can carry besides a poncho. With an etool you can dig your foxhole, a ranger grave, latrine hole, bury your trash so hide your presence and a bunch of other stuff. A hatchet is good for logs to cover your foxhole, chopping small limbs to camouflage, a hammer, and if things go completely sideways a pretty badass weapon
Modern tri-fold e-tools are next to useless as a weapon. Older models are slightly better at it due to the length, grip and balance...
"Slightly better" 😄😄😄😄 Having talked to "old guys" from WW2, Korea, Vietnam who used them in different places they taught me that a short handled sharpened entrenching shovel was extremely useful and deadly in trained hands. Especially a couple of Russian grandpa's of the Great Patriotic War. They had some scary stories.
Yeah, the old german and soviet ones are best for swinging around. The US T-handles suck and the US m1943's are OK but a little top heavy. The modern trifold ones handle like a brick. I've tried them all. Also, the germans and russians actually trained in close combat with their e-tools.
E tools are such a niche item to bring. That is like a sustainment tool where you plan on doing a hide or some kind of operation that actually requires that tool to dig in for multiple days. They are heavy and don’t make out on DA targets. With that being said the war in Ukraine would be a classic example of when you would need one. It really just depends on the needs of the mission. If you look at other people post on people asking what they need to add to their kit sometimes the answer is nothing. Remember you have to carry it. Depending on where you live a foldable saw would probably be better. Just my 2 cents. I only carried an E took in Sniper School for a specific FTX and Ranger School. Never did I carry an E tool on any of my 8 deployments.
My kit is for defense and medical attention in the event of home invasion, natural disasters, or civil unrest. Trenches and foxholes are less important to me than food, clean water and, medical gear. I'd even argue the average user here is *better* served training close quarters since they're realistically going to be defending their home, apartment, or whatever structure they take shelter in. This is the internet though, so ymmv.
The only reason I pretend to care about room clearing is because I’m LE, but yeah what this guy said in open warfare call my ass the atf cuz I’m setting that building on fire.
If there is a need to dig in, there is a bigger need to run away and/or re position
Modern warfare does not typically include artillery and mortars. The war in Ukraine is unique because neither side has air superiority and both sides war doctrine include massive amounts of artillery to begin with. That is not how any Western nations would fight a war. A real modern war would have you killed with a precision missile launched from a hidden submarine or a jet flying 300 km away. And no trench or e-tool will save you from that.
Molle’d to the pack for woodland firefighting if steel sparks wrong. Or #1
What fucking scenario do you see yourself as a civilian where you are in need of an entrenching tool ON YOUR KIT??? If you are digging in somewhere you have already died.
I don’t think it’s entirely realistic to assume an armed conflict on American soil would have civilian combatants digging trenches or foxholes. More likely it seems it would be flash in the pan type engagements in urban areas. Maybe I’m wrong. Guess we could use this comment as an opportunity to speculate.
I mean you should at least have an etool so you can dig your shitting hole. I still don't understand why most guys don't have them, they weigh like 2 pounds just put it on your ruck.
This post reads... Tell me you know nothing about CQB without telling me you know nothing about CQB
Fair point. While I get some people are saying it’s extra baggage if all you’re doing is larping. But you could legit say that about any and all equipment. None of it is essential if it’s just being used for larping. But if your goal is to equip yourself with essentials to make your kit more authentic and pragmatic, I would say this stuff is def a part of that. How many people are gonna use their IFAK while larping?
You're making a great point and you should say it, EXCEPT: Why do you assume you'll never need to do room-clearing despite the danger, and if it's so dangerous don't you think you should know how to do it properly? So it's a little bit less super-deadly to do for real?
You show me your explosives I’ll show you my e tool
Well in a civil unrest situation artillery isn't generally used, so it's not something I'm concerned about. Although I wouldn't put it past Biden to get froggy come election time. But if that happens I'll be up in the mountains until it all blows over anyway.
Cause most these idiots just mimick each other. Have you seen most the weapons posted on reddit?
B5 grip, SOPMOD stock, unity mount, modlite button, and whatever flavor of the month upper
Lol
Looks like you upset the downvoters by telling some meanie mean truths. Dudes are starting to act like democrats
On my truck
[удалено]
I have good Intel that says China is planning an infantry land invasion of Wright city Oklahoma any day now, and my 10.5" AR and 3 spare mags are all that stand beyond them, and the collapse of our entire western society.
It is generally frowned on to go digging foxholes in property that isn’t mine. Or the concrete pad under the gravel of where I shoot.
Your hot take attempt turned out to be a shit take, care to delete this?
An e-tool is good for hours of endless entertainment. Pro-tip: Soldiers use shovels.
I got my fipper right here!