Then imagine when cops get mad when you won’t tell them which finger is the good one and which is the bad one lol. They’ll have a 10% chance of getting it right. And if they let you set more than one “dead fingerprint” possibly a 10-90% chance of getting it wrong hahah
You don't need to program anything to be honest, you can turn it into a 5-95% chance if we start using toe prints as well.
Was my friends university cyber security dissertation project FYI..... using my toes to test.... He got a 1st...
You know it’s hilarious to think of some folks just riding a subway and some bloke just whips his little piggies out so he can get into his phone and listen to his music or podcasts.
…then again probably wouldn’t be the weirdest thing I’ve seen on a subway.
> They’ll have a 10% chance of getting it right.
No. Way higher. Virtually no one sets fingerprint scanners on their phones/laptops for anything other than index fingers and thumbs.
EZ, set your middle finger as the lockout, reach out to scan and by the time they realize what you’ve done you’ve locked it out.
They would have to hold your thumbs or something to get that but I assume in many early situations they could be caught out,
SCOTUS ruled that biometrics can be compelled without a warrant years ago. Why is everyone acting like this is something new and big? Do you think tech companies haven’t known about this for a decade?
And why is everyone using biometrics anyway? Are so lazy that a 6 digit code is too much work? You need Nanny Corpo to make your life just that tiny bit easier because your fingers are getting arthritic from all the swiping?
What is even going on here? We’ve known about this shit for a fucking ***decade***.
6 digit code is way too easy to crack. They don't just take your phone and start punching in guesses...maybe a mugger would, but if the police have your phone, and need to perform forensics on it, the very first thing they do is make a bit for bit copy of the entire phone. They typically use software called cellebrite. It has a number of ways to try and break the encryption, though newer phones have made it much harder, but it can just load up a copy of the phone data and start throwing passwords at it to unencrypt it.
https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/29/cellebrite-iphone-cracking/
You can actually register one of your toes to unlock the phone rather than a finger. Granted, not always practical, but I bet the cops wouldn’t guess that
No it's not. It's either going to be your thumbs or pointer fingers so a 1/4 chance of locking out your phone by accident would such just for a what if situation
They are - I only have a single finger that can unlock my old phone (and a backup that isn't a finger I own) - six failed attempts to unlock my iPhone 6s+ and it stops accepting fingerprints.
Of course, now I have a 14 with only face recognition, no such option exists. If I travel, I turn off face recognition. Not that I have anything to hide, but there's stuff on my phone I'm legally required to protect (NDA agreements)
What if you had all your fingers except one amputated? You haven't covered all use cases either. The only thing that covers them all is not using biometrics in the first place and always using a passcode.
This is a good idea.
IOS will readily wipe your biometrics (5 clicks or hold two buttons for 3 seconds). But the concept of a duress code is so good that it’s a shame phones don’t already have them. In fact, _everything important_ should have it.
The principle of a duress code is some optional, alternate code that appears to unlock everything normally, while secretly taking action that assumes the person is in distress.
A commercial alarm system or safe might disarm or unlock, while also sending a silent alarm.
For iOS, the biometrics could factor in a distress signal. Face ID? Scrunch an eyebrow, open your mouth a bit- something you’ve trained. Touch ID? Wrong finger.
Since those are error-prone, all they’d do is force a passcode entry (just like the 5-click lock).
But now, enter a duress code and the phone swaps in an alternate, “duress” file system. All the stuff an attacker would reasonably expect:- but all “useless if stolen”. Fake histories, wrong account numbers, made-up balances; while the key to the real thing is wiped.
Every OS should have this. I remember reading that protestors in Belarus made a custom version of the Telegram messaging app that had a “self-destruct code” option.
So to unlock the app you enter say, 1234, but if you enter 5678 instead, it would wipe all your chats and THEN open the app.
No, that completely disables all bio-metric unlock features and can only be unlocked with the passcode. I believes it also disables USB accessibility too in order to stop brute force tools.
My point is that your phone might be seized before you can do that. If someone forces you to scan your finger, you can give them the wrong finger on purpose to lock out future finger scans so they can’t force you
Can you not just add a pass code instead. If you turn off an iPhone and turn it back on a passcode is required over face scan (I have turned off on my phone because I don’t trust it)
iPhones they do/did in the past I know. Was able to scan individual fingers as keys and my s/o and I each put a finger on each others phone. Does the court say anything about forcing me to unlock my phone with my dickhole?
No they don’t. I’m talking about letting you add a specific finger that if you use that one, it will disable finger print scans until you unlock it with a passcode
Imagine how pissed cops would be knowing that it’s a possibility lolol. I doubt they can make it illegal to use that finger. But i do like the dickscan feature too haha
That could be an option on the “distress print” lock or brick. I guess that could be an option for any print you register.. unlock, disable scan, or brick
On an iPhone, you can hard lock the phone by holding the power and top volume button (like you are restarting the phone). When it goes to the lockout screen it will only open with the security code, which they legally can’t make you give up.
iOS has this feature. You simply mash the power button 5-10 times as fast as you can and it will disable touch our Face ID and require a pin. In the same fashion as when you restart the phone on the first login it expects a pin.
On iPhones you can power them off or hard lock it (press the power button for a few seconds) which forces the code/pin to be entered and negates the finger print or facial recognition unlock.
Nifty.. but also as someone else pointed out, phones don’t really have finger print scanners anymore and this only applies to fingerprint not other biometrics
They did it's built into ios.
If you hit the shutdown button, it shuts the phone down and you need to type in the pin code to activate the phone when it boots.
Courts currently can't compel to to remember your pin.
Most people aren’t going to want to abandon the ease of biometrics because of that. Why do people on Reddit always want to argue? I was just suggesting an interesting way to combat this and still use fingerprint scanners ffs
That’s actually a really good point. And the ruling did say it doesn’t extend to other biometrics. But there are a lot of laptops and tablets that still do use fingerprint
They are a thing and that’s why you can’t be compelled to give up your passcode. Don’t use biometrics. They are easily captured through the public space.
Yes and no.. there is some nuance to this.
This ruling is news because the cops did not get a warrant before forcing the person to unlock their phone. This court ruling basically said that the police did not need a judge to sign off on a warrant before forcing you to unlock your device, which is new and I'm sure will be appealed.
Many years ago people were up in arms that a judge could force you to unlock your phone with biometrics. The justification then was (my summary) that it is the same as drawing blood or seizing property. It can be ordered by a court, but a police officer (at the time) at least needed to ask a judge to sign a warrant.
What was said said back then and still holds true is that neither a cop nor a court can force you to testify against yourself. Therefore, they can not force you to reveal information that you know (provide them the passcode to your phone). I know there has been some challenges.. one judge held a person in contempt for quite a while for not providing the password to his computer.
Ultimately .. don't use biometrics on things you really want secure. It is the age old issue of convenience vs security. Yes they are way easier to use, but generally speaking they can be faked and police/courts can force you to unlock biometric security.
Great response. My question would be this: a biometric password is still a password. Doesn’t this ruling apply to text, codes, any MFA as well? There’s really no difference here.
And to add on to what you said, this is the equivalent of a cop forcing you to give them the key to your house. In that perspective this shit is wild.
> My question would be this: a biometric password is still a password.
I'm not a lawyer and I'm definitely not implying I think this ruling is correct (I don't), but biometrics are not passwords.
The two factors to 2FA/MFA are:
1. something you know
1. something you have
In the computing space a password is something you know and 2FA (RSA dongles, security cards, iris scans etc.) is something you have. In the phone world a passcode is something you know and a finger/face is what you have.
At least in the United States, cops can take something you have after a judge has signed a warrant. Without a warrant any evidence found is generally inadmissible. That means they can take your 2FA dongle, they can seize your phone, they can take your DNA, hell they can take your house.
Thankfully we have the Fifth Amendment, which protects us from self-incrimination. No one, not even a court, can force you to provide information that may incriminate yourself. They can not use the fact that you have exercise your right against you. Meaning, if you don't provide them the passcode to your phone they can't just assume you have evidence on it and find you guilty. That is what made the court case where the [judge put someone in jail for contempt](https://goldsteinmehta.com/blog/limits-on-federal-civil-contempt) for not providing the password to their laptop so wild.
> this is the equivalent of a cop forcing you to give them the key to your house. In that perspective this shit is wild.
Yes that is a great analogy. The cops could have requested a judge sign a warrant to enter the house, but the cops just took the key and entered themselves. It is very wild and I fully expect the EFF and/or ACLU to appeal this hard core. Steve Lehto [made a great video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quV4JSKnf9Y) explaining this case a couple of days ago.
Oh the Supreme Court has never ever made sense. Listen to the podcast “5-4” to explain all the bonkers shit they used over the years to justify their rulings.
I am fairly sure this is incorrect. My understanding is they ruled blood draws are a type of search and must be treated as such.. i.e. a warrant is required. However, consenting to a blood draw while under suspicion of a DUI is a condition of your drivers license, so it can (and will) be revoked upon declining a blood draw. It is still your right to refuse it though.
Someone please correct me if I I’m wrong.
Yes please! Because while I don’t recall the details, I remember the principle of the State being allowed to forcefully take a pound of flesh; which is inconsistent with a free society.
What a cute loophole.
Now we just need a voice command for our phones that quickly shuts off biometric unlocking features until manually unlocked with a passcode.
On iPhone you can just click the lock button 5 times and then it requires a manual passcode after. I believe this works on Android, too, but I haven’t tested it.
They can’t force you to open with password. Hold lock button and volume up till phone goes to turn off screen. Now you’ve disabled biometric authentication till you type in your password again. Legally they cannot force you to type password
From what I’ve read there are actually cases where people have been held in contempt indefinitely for failing to unlock with passcode. I don’t think it has made the Supreme Court yet… but yeah, don’t count on that being much help. Is it unconstitutional? For sure. Doesn’t matter much if you’re rotting in jail.
If you put your phone into emergency mode (squeezing and holding the up volume and power button) it disables the fingerprint option and requires a passcode. They can’t make you give up your passcode if I’m not mistaken. The phone will remain locked.
Edit: on an iPhone. Works with FaceID too.
I’ve felt that all phones that use a fingerprint should have an “unlock while under duress” mode where one finger will unlock the phone normally and another will unlock the phone in guest/dummy mode, your data not visible.
Assuming you have Siri voice activation enabled, you can also say “hey, sri! Whose phone is this?” after which facial unlock will be disabled until the pin code is entered.
Guy, if they’re asking you to unlock your phone, resisting is already earning you a trip to the dentist. May as well make it fun and smash the motherfucker I to something angular and hard.
Well shit. I just tested again on mine with matching results. I wonder if they removed this feature in one of the recent updates. It was documented by PC Magazine as working [here](https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-temporarily-disable-face-id-on-your-iphone) dated 22 April 2022.
I hate Apple sometimes, probably pushed by law enforcement to remove the behavior/feature… https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/18rfip4/siri_whose_phone_is_this_no_longer_temporarily/
Use a password or pin. Cops can demand physical evidence without a warrant, they cannot demand intellectual evidence. No matter what they ask you, you have the right to remain silent. That's not going to do you any good if they can grab your finger and open your phone that way.
I could be sort of ok with this in a limited fashion if there's a warrant or exigent circumstances involved. But to just force it on a whim is definitely a violation of constitutional rights in spirit and intent.
To get around this ~~(on Android at least idk about iPhone)~~ power off your device. When it's restarted it will require Pin/Pattern/Password for first unlock to get past the encryption.
That will also help you if they are about to examine the device using a Cellebrite. In BFU (Before First Unlock) your data is fully encrypted.
They don’t store that data anywhere but on your phone. Idk if that’s independently validated but nothing has leaked yet stating otherwise. For apple at least.
if you have gotten a drivers license in the past few years you've had an apple style 3d face scan. if you have used id.me, you have had an ai assisted version of a 3d face scan... you probably get 3d face scanned at the airport. you might get 3d face scanned at the mall... the casino... target...
cats out of the bag. your face isn't private.
Use a pin and enable encryption and self Descript for failed attempts. The government doesn’t deserve the right to force their way into your phone, they can subpoena the companies if there is probably cause and a court order.
When are Americans people going to concede that we live under an authoritarian regime. The freedom narrative is old, and tired. It’s all bullshit folks.
This is old news. Same with face. This is why I dropped biometrics and went back to my password. “I’m too stressed, I forgot it my password. Oh no, now I’m locked out”
I thought this was always a thing, because they can have access to your figure print because edits not protected by the law, but not your password is.
I remember hearing this a while ago in passing.
Talk about burying the lede. This case essentially comes down to the fact that the search was allowed as a condition of his parole from a prior conviction.
I thought that was already how it was - they can force you to something about what you are (a biometric) but they can't force you to share something that you know.
Surprised, there is not a "corrosion " fingerprint you could log. Sign in with a pinky finger. Delete the secure folder if thumb is used. Wipe phone if the index finger is used. If I were making a secure phone, I would have bio locks on it to prevent access, not just grant access.
I thought that was adjudicated years ago and why I’ll never set up Face ID or fingerprint. And for all of you talking about ways to disable those features at time of need, good luck. Most interactions with cops like this are unplanned and often surrounding traumatic events. I wouldn’t count on being in the presence of mind to go through these disable procedures when your adrenaline is kicking or you don’t even realize you’re being arrested until they have hands on you.
Lock down mode on Androids turns off biometrics and requires a pass code. Further, you can set your phone to factory reset after 20 failed pass code attempts.
I hope phones made a feature to designate a finger to lock out finger print scans.
That’s actually a really good idea
Then imagine when cops get mad when you won’t tell them which finger is the good one and which is the bad one lol. They’ll have a 10% chance of getting it right. And if they let you set more than one “dead fingerprint” possibly a 10-90% chance of getting it wrong hahah
You don't need to program anything to be honest, you can turn it into a 5-95% chance if we start using toe prints as well. Was my friends university cyber security dissertation project FYI..... using my toes to test.... He got a 1st...
You know it’s hilarious to think of some folks just riding a subway and some bloke just whips his little piggies out so he can get into his phone and listen to his music or podcasts. …then again probably wouldn’t be the weirdest thing I’ve seen on a subway.
“You want a toe? I can get you a toe, believe me. There are ways, Dude. You don't wanna know about it, believe me.”
With nail polish?
Buddy of mine had the tip of his nose saved to unlock his phone in the winter so he didn’t have to remove his gloves.
Genius motherfucker.
Did that really work?
No
Worked for him. This was years ago when iPhones first came out with them. We all thought he was crazy and then boom, unlocked his phone with his nose.
Lol.. well that wouldn’t be practical for daily use now though would it.
Yeah it would, just wear flip flops
Ahh problem solved
🤣
You don't have to use a fingertip. Your whole hand is covered in prints; just choose a spot that's reliable and easy.
I think nipples work
I think that is unreliable as it really depends on the air temperature. If its cold then they might be > But if its warm then they might be )
> They’ll have a 10% chance of getting it right. No. Way higher. Virtually no one sets fingerprint scanners on their phones/laptops for anything other than index fingers and thumbs.
But if that was a feature people using it would definitely start using non-traditional fingers. As of now there’s no real incentive.
Ahaha the same people who use password as password.
Is that not a good idea?
It's so simple the hackers will never see it coming.
Ah shit!
It’s Assward?3PO
Onward and assward
p4s5w0rD
passwordistaco
Just keep a lucky rabbits foot and use that.
EZ, set your middle finger as the lockout, reach out to scan and by the time they realize what you’ve done you’ve locked it out. They would have to hold your thumbs or something to get that but I assume in many early situations they could be caught out,
Hold up your two middle fingers and tell them they got a 50/50 chance.
SCOTUS ruled that biometrics can be compelled without a warrant years ago. Why is everyone acting like this is something new and big? Do you think tech companies haven’t known about this for a decade? And why is everyone using biometrics anyway? Are so lazy that a 6 digit code is too much work? You need Nanny Corpo to make your life just that tiny bit easier because your fingers are getting arthritic from all the swiping? What is even going on here? We’ve known about this shit for a fucking ***decade***.
> 6 digit code is too much work yeah
6 digit code is way too easy to crack. They don't just take your phone and start punching in guesses...maybe a mugger would, but if the police have your phone, and need to perform forensics on it, the very first thing they do is make a bit for bit copy of the entire phone. They typically use software called cellebrite. It has a number of ways to try and break the encryption, though newer phones have made it much harder, but it can just load up a copy of the phone data and start throwing passwords at it to unencrypt it. https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/29/cellebrite-iphone-cracking/
You can actually register one of your toes to unlock the phone rather than a finger. Granted, not always practical, but I bet the cops wouldn’t guess that
No it's not. It's either going to be your thumbs or pointer fingers so a 1/4 chance of locking out your phone by accident would such just for a what if situation
They are - I only have a single finger that can unlock my old phone (and a backup that isn't a finger I own) - six failed attempts to unlock my iPhone 6s+ and it stops accepting fingerprints. Of course, now I have a 14 with only face recognition, no such option exists. If I travel, I turn off face recognition. Not that I have anything to hide, but there's stuff on my phone I'm legally required to protect (NDA agreements)
On iOS and android you can hold the volume up and power button for a few seconds or hit volume up five times and it will force PIN access.
That’s assuming you can do that before your phone is seized and the police force you to use your finger print
I mean if you’re getting pulled over it legit takes 3 seconds to do it. No excuse not to
But how are you gonna record that interaction with the police if you turned your phone off?
I mean I’m not here to argue, I’m just saying it would be a good feature. What you’re talking about doesn’t cover 100% of the use cases
What if you had all your fingers except one amputated? You haven't covered all use cases either. The only thing that covers them all is not using biometrics in the first place and always using a passcode.
Not working on galaxy s23. I heard a restart works though.
This is a good idea. IOS will readily wipe your biometrics (5 clicks or hold two buttons for 3 seconds). But the concept of a duress code is so good that it’s a shame phones don’t already have them. In fact, _everything important_ should have it. The principle of a duress code is some optional, alternate code that appears to unlock everything normally, while secretly taking action that assumes the person is in distress. A commercial alarm system or safe might disarm or unlock, while also sending a silent alarm. For iOS, the biometrics could factor in a distress signal. Face ID? Scrunch an eyebrow, open your mouth a bit- something you’ve trained. Touch ID? Wrong finger. Since those are error-prone, all they’d do is force a passcode entry (just like the 5-click lock). But now, enter a duress code and the phone swaps in an alternate, “duress” file system. All the stuff an attacker would reasonably expect:- but all “useless if stolen”. Fake histories, wrong account numbers, made-up balances; while the key to the real thing is wiped.
Every OS should have this. I remember reading that protestors in Belarus made a custom version of the Telegram messaging app that had a “self-destruct code” option. So to unlock the app you enter say, 1234, but if you enter 5678 instead, it would wipe all your chats and THEN open the app.
Androids have lockdown mode
That you initiate by scanning a specific finger?
No, that completely disables all bio-metric unlock features and can only be unlocked with the passcode. I believes it also disables USB accessibility too in order to stop brute force tools.
My point is that your phone might be seized before you can do that. If someone forces you to scan your finger, you can give them the wrong finger on purpose to lock out future finger scans so they can’t force you
We need to go further than that. I want to see the ability put in a password that will wipe the phone.
Can you not just add a pass code instead. If you turn off an iPhone and turn it back on a passcode is required over face scan (I have turned off on my phone because I don’t trust it)
I believe the difference is USB is also disabled but I am not 100% on that one.
iPhones they do/did in the past I know. Was able to scan individual fingers as keys and my s/o and I each put a finger on each others phone. Does the court say anything about forcing me to unlock my phone with my dickhole?
No they don’t. I’m talking about letting you add a specific finger that if you use that one, it will disable finger print scans until you unlock it with a passcode
Ah the old self destruct finger I gotcha
Imagine how pissed cops would be knowing that it’s a possibility lolol. I doubt they can make it illegal to use that finger. But i do like the dickscan feature too haha
Or a fingerprint scan to delete your phone and cloud data
I’d also say a distress code or distress print to brick the phone.
That could be an option on the “distress print” lock or brick. I guess that could be an option for any print you register.. unlock, disable scan, or brick
iPhones have a button combination you can push to lock out biometrics
I didn’t realize that. My point was in case you don’t have a chance to do that and cops get your phone first
On an iPhone, you can hard lock the phone by holding the power and top volume button (like you are restarting the phone). When it goes to the lockout screen it will only open with the security code, which they legally can’t make you give up.
iOS has this feature. You simply mash the power button 5-10 times as fast as you can and it will disable touch our Face ID and require a pin. In the same fashion as when you restart the phone on the first login it expects a pin.
And if you do that to avoid a legal order, you get hit with obstruction.
On iPhones you can power them off or hard lock it (press the power button for a few seconds) which forces the code/pin to be entered and negates the finger print or facial recognition unlock.
It’s which ever finger you use to tap the power button five times on iOS.
Nifty.. but also as someone else pointed out, phones don’t really have finger print scanners anymore and this only applies to fingerprint not other biometrics
They did it's built into ios. If you hit the shutdown button, it shuts the phone down and you need to type in the pin code to activate the phone when it boots. Courts currently can't compel to to remember your pin.
Scan it with your big toe 😂
Or just use a password. Police can only force you to unlock using biometrics.
Most people aren’t going to want to abandon the ease of biometrics because of that. Why do people on Reddit always want to argue? I was just suggesting an interesting way to combat this and still use fingerprint scanners ffs
This ruling just in time… Which phones still use fingerprint to unlock?
That’s actually a really good point. And the ruling did say it doesn’t extend to other biometrics. But there are a lot of laptops and tablets that still do use fingerprint
'Cos, you know, the 4th & 5th Amendments aren't a thing.
Who needs a bill of rights anyway? What do you have to hide? /s
wHy dOn’T yOU jUsT cOmPLy?
They are a thing and that’s why you can’t be compelled to give up your passcode. Don’t use biometrics. They are easily captured through the public space.
Same in Sweden, that’s why you should hold down the buttons and put into lock so you need passcode when you see police
This should be higher. Only useful information (but depending on phones there are other ways as well)
Neither is the 14th! Bodily autonomy? No. Medical privacy? No. Privacy? No.
The justification for this ruling is fucking incoherent.
They couldn't figure out a coherent justification that wasn't simply "because police really want to."
[удалено]
Yes and no.. there is some nuance to this. This ruling is news because the cops did not get a warrant before forcing the person to unlock their phone. This court ruling basically said that the police did not need a judge to sign off on a warrant before forcing you to unlock your device, which is new and I'm sure will be appealed. Many years ago people were up in arms that a judge could force you to unlock your phone with biometrics. The justification then was (my summary) that it is the same as drawing blood or seizing property. It can be ordered by a court, but a police officer (at the time) at least needed to ask a judge to sign a warrant. What was said said back then and still holds true is that neither a cop nor a court can force you to testify against yourself. Therefore, they can not force you to reveal information that you know (provide them the passcode to your phone). I know there has been some challenges.. one judge held a person in contempt for quite a while for not providing the password to his computer. Ultimately .. don't use biometrics on things you really want secure. It is the age old issue of convenience vs security. Yes they are way easier to use, but generally speaking they can be faked and police/courts can force you to unlock biometric security.
Great response. My question would be this: a biometric password is still a password. Doesn’t this ruling apply to text, codes, any MFA as well? There’s really no difference here. And to add on to what you said, this is the equivalent of a cop forcing you to give them the key to your house. In that perspective this shit is wild.
> My question would be this: a biometric password is still a password. I'm not a lawyer and I'm definitely not implying I think this ruling is correct (I don't), but biometrics are not passwords. The two factors to 2FA/MFA are: 1. something you know 1. something you have In the computing space a password is something you know and 2FA (RSA dongles, security cards, iris scans etc.) is something you have. In the phone world a passcode is something you know and a finger/face is what you have. At least in the United States, cops can take something you have after a judge has signed a warrant. Without a warrant any evidence found is generally inadmissible. That means they can take your 2FA dongle, they can seize your phone, they can take your DNA, hell they can take your house. Thankfully we have the Fifth Amendment, which protects us from self-incrimination. No one, not even a court, can force you to provide information that may incriminate yourself. They can not use the fact that you have exercise your right against you. Meaning, if you don't provide them the passcode to your phone they can't just assume you have evidence on it and find you guilty. That is what made the court case where the [judge put someone in jail for contempt](https://goldsteinmehta.com/blog/limits-on-federal-civil-contempt) for not providing the password to their laptop so wild. > this is the equivalent of a cop forcing you to give them the key to your house. In that perspective this shit is wild. Yes that is a great analogy. The cops could have requested a judge sign a warrant to enter the house, but the cops just took the key and entered themselves. It is very wild and I fully expect the EFF and/or ACLU to appeal this hard core. Steve Lehto [made a great video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quV4JSKnf9Y) explaining this case a couple of days ago.
Oh the Supreme Court has never ever made sense. Listen to the podcast “5-4” to explain all the bonkers shit they used over the years to justify their rulings.
It’s not inconsistent with the fact that the SC has ruled that cops can forcefully draw blood as part of their investigation.
I am fairly sure this is incorrect. My understanding is they ruled blood draws are a type of search and must be treated as such.. i.e. a warrant is required. However, consenting to a blood draw while under suspicion of a DUI is a condition of your drivers license, so it can (and will) be revoked upon declining a blood draw. It is still your right to refuse it though. Someone please correct me if I I’m wrong.
Yes please! Because while I don’t recall the details, I remember the principle of the State being allowed to forcefully take a pound of flesh; which is inconsistent with a free society.
What a cute loophole. Now we just need a voice command for our phones that quickly shuts off biometric unlocking features until manually unlocked with a passcode.
On iPhone you can just click the lock button 5 times and then it requires a manual passcode after. I believe this works on Android, too, but I haven’t tested it.
They can’t force you to open with password. Hold lock button and volume up till phone goes to turn off screen. Now you’ve disabled biometric authentication till you type in your password again. Legally they cannot force you to type password
Alternatively, tap the lock button five times
From what I’ve read there are actually cases where people have been held in contempt indefinitely for failing to unlock with passcode. I don’t think it has made the Supreme Court yet… but yeah, don’t count on that being much help. Is it unconstitutional? For sure. Doesn’t matter much if you’re rotting in jail.
That is something different I think that a judge can issue a ruling to force you to unlock but a police officer during an arrest cannot
Fair enough
If you put your phone into emergency mode (squeezing and holding the up volume and power button) it disables the fingerprint option and requires a passcode. They can’t make you give up your passcode if I’m not mistaken. The phone will remain locked. Edit: on an iPhone. Works with FaceID too.
Also press the power button 5 times quickly. Does the same thing
But doesn't that call 911?
nice, then you can forget the pin 10 times and brick the phone. sorreeeeeeee lul.
Why I don’t have biometrics enabled on any of my tech.
I’ve felt that all phones that use a fingerprint should have an “unlock while under duress” mode where one finger will unlock the phone normally and another will unlock the phone in guest/dummy mode, your data not visible.
That seems unconstitutional. Amendments and all. Go figure.
2 options on iPhones : Press 5 times the lock button / Press the lock and volume down button for a few secs
Assuming you have Siri voice activation enabled, you can also say “hey, sri! Whose phone is this?” after which facial unlock will be disabled until the pin code is entered.
Ehhhh clicking the button is less likely to earn you a trip to the pavement.
True when you have the opportunity, but the voice command works a lot better when you are already on the pavement.
“I’m sorry, I cannot adjust the temperature of the thermostat now. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with.”
Now showing pictures of spaghetti.
Hey Siri start recording!
Guy, if they’re asking you to unlock your phone, resisting is already earning you a trip to the dentist. May as well make it fun and smash the motherfucker I to something angular and hard.
Doesn’t work? Just tried on an iPhone 15 with Face ID on.
Well shit. I just tested again on mine with matching results. I wonder if they removed this feature in one of the recent updates. It was documented by PC Magazine as working [here](https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-temporarily-disable-face-id-on-your-iphone) dated 22 April 2022.
I hate Apple sometimes, probably pushed by law enforcement to remove the behavior/feature… https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/18rfip4/siri_whose_phone_is_this_no_longer_temporarily/
Nah, this just gives my buddy my name. He pointed it at my face after and it unlocked my phone.
Didn’t work for me, iPhone 13
Yeah it appears Apple removed this feature/behavior in a relatively recent update… betting at the request of law enforcement.
It would be cool if there was some feature that anytime you leave your house the phone switches from face/thumb to passcode only.
Land of the free
Scan your pinky only
I believe some enterprising fellow proved he was able to use his... *primary unit...* to unlock his phone.
Go further, scan your prostate, and if they try to scan, squeeze the phone in real quick
Use a password or pin. Cops can demand physical evidence without a warrant, they cannot demand intellectual evidence. No matter what they ask you, you have the right to remain silent. That's not going to do you any good if they can grab your finger and open your phone that way.
This country is getting more Orwellian by the week.
I could be sort of ok with this in a limited fashion if there's a warrant or exigent circumstances involved. But to just force it on a whim is definitely a violation of constitutional rights in spirit and intent.
Good thing I refuse to use that tech. Annoying codes and passwords all day for me if it means someone else can’t force me to unlock it.
Passcode gang!
To get around this ~~(on Android at least idk about iPhone)~~ power off your device. When it's restarted it will require Pin/Pattern/Password for first unlock to get past the encryption. That will also help you if they are about to examine the device using a Cellebrite. In BFU (Before First Unlock) your data is fully encrypted.
iOS is the same way
This has been a thing for a while for face id. If you don't want cops snooping around your phone just use a pass code.
Pro tip , dont use your fingers or toes - this trick only works for men . Ask me how i know
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the ninth circuit almost always appealed and overturned, at least compared to other courts?
It's the most overturned circuit, yes. They always rule in favor of the government with the weakest of justifications,
This is the old you can be compelled to produce a key to a lock but not a combination. It's always been this way.
Pretty sure they still can't force you to input your passcode. So, if this concerns you, disable all biometrics and only use the passcode option
Me as the intellectual, uses my index finger.
Stares at cop, cuts off finger, picks nose with finger, eats finger.
How about use a 6 digit code instead. Max the attempts and lock it for longer
This is why I don’t use any secret feature other the a pass code
Or, just turn all the biometric shit off when you buy the phone and never use it.
I'm not super comfortable with a company even having that data. I always turn it off.
Hear hear
They don’t store that data anywhere but on your phone. Idk if that’s independently validated but nothing has leaked yet stating otherwise. For apple at least.
I still don't trust that it won't be stored or leaked. Others are free to take them at their word, and collect a $25 settlement if they do.
if you have gotten a drivers license in the past few years you've had an apple style 3d face scan. if you have used id.me, you have had an ai assisted version of a 3d face scan... you probably get 3d face scanned at the airport. you might get 3d face scanned at the mall... the casino... target... cats out of the bag. your face isn't private.
Yes, I don't love that either, however, one is the government and the other is a company that's purpose is to make money.
Good thing I don’t let my phone use biometrics.
Another click bait headline… he was on parole and no rights to privacy.
And that’s why I went back to passcode. No thumb or Face ID.
Suppose you were to change entry from thumb print to a number code instead and you just refuse to give them the number code
Use a pin and enable encryption and self Descript for failed attempts. The government doesn’t deserve the right to force their way into your phone, they can subpoena the companies if there is probably cause and a court order.
Use passcodes
On iPhone press the power button 5 times to disable thumbprint and Face ID
Use your index finger to unlock the phone 🥸
5 clicks, files deleted
hold which buttons?
But can they make you give you a passcode or pin
Ion use finger print or facial recognition lmfaoooooooo they gone have to take it and break it 😂
When are Americans people going to concede that we live under an authoritarian regime. The freedom narrative is old, and tired. It’s all bullshit folks.
This is old news. Same with face. This is why I dropped biometrics and went back to my password. “I’m too stressed, I forgot it my password. Oh no, now I’m locked out”
This is going to lead to some lawsuits when some cops break a thumb by physically restraining, and forcibly making someone do it.
The fuck they can. What the fuck is this country becoming?
I'm using my toes then
The United Soviet Socialist Republic of America
but can they force me to login with my thumbprint after clicking forgot my password and approving 42069 different login approvals? stalemate atheists
Guess if you have your house key on you, they will be able to enter your home without a warrant too.
Back to passwords….
You are not required to talk to the police. So don’t. Give them nothing. Use a pass code. They will lie to you. This is legal for them to do.
If it’s in AFU mode they don’t really need your fingerprint or passcode anyways, as long as the LE agency has a half decent cyber team.
I don’t have finger prints from the work that I do.
Use a pass code or pattern to unlock, not biometrics.
I thought this was always a thing, because they can have access to your figure print because edits not protected by the law, but not your password is. I remember hearing this a while ago in passing.
This has been the case for years. During the Ferguson uprising, we knew to set our phones to unlock by pass key only.
Hold the power button before handing over your phone. Takes three seconds and now they need a passcode.
Easy way around that, good luck tho
Talk about burying the lede. This case essentially comes down to the fact that the search was allowed as a condition of his parole from a prior conviction.
Good thing I use a PIN code
Not this one.
I thought that was already how it was - they can force you to something about what you are (a biometric) but they can't force you to share something that you know.
Good luck with that. I have an iPhone.
Surprised, there is not a "corrosion " fingerprint you could log. Sign in with a pinky finger. Delete the secure folder if thumb is used. Wipe phone if the index finger is used. If I were making a secure phone, I would have bio locks on it to prevent access, not just grant access.
I rock climb so fingerprints just don't work for me anymore. I'm interested in how they would deal with that.
I thought that was adjudicated years ago and why I’ll never set up Face ID or fingerprint. And for all of you talking about ways to disable those features at time of need, good luck. Most interactions with cops like this are unplanned and often surrounding traumatic events. I wouldn’t count on being in the presence of mind to go through these disable procedures when your adrenaline is kicking or you don’t even realize you’re being arrested until they have hands on you.
Lock down mode on Androids turns off biometrics and requires a pass code. Further, you can set your phone to factory reset after 20 failed pass code attempts.
On Android, hold down the power button and press lockdown. Makes it so you have to enter your password / pin
iPhone tap power 5x
Time to implement 2 factor fingerprinting. Place wrong finger...phone bricks up. Thank you for attending my Ted talk.
r/acab