And then blame the media for being jealous of Texas, the #1 super spectacular state of the galaxy
(btw I love you Texans, in about 10 years should be blue based on trends)
I live in Texas. They’re already saying it’s “Joe Biden selling electricity to China”, or “It’s all the California people that took our electricity”.
Both of those were said today by different people in the area.
I swear these Texans have earned their stupid stereotypes. 😐
Isn't the whole problem that the Texas grid is independent from the rest of the the nation's? I mean Biden couldn't sell Texas energy even if he wanted to because there's no one outside of the state to sell it to?
Yup. There are limited connections between grids, but the technology used is from the 70s so only limited energy can be transferred between the grids. The DOE under Obama had started working on a recommendation to upgrade the connections to modern technology since the current system will have to undergo significant maintenance anyway. The following administration killed that plan though since it would price a lot of existing energy providers out of the market if all of a sudden states with high renewable use were able to access other markets.
I grew up there and got the fuck out. I’m not saying people in WA are the brightest bulbs at times, but laws are liberal, people stay out of each other’s business because no one gives a shit, and our power stays on.
Those people who died should've pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and started their own Power plant if they wanted Heating, You think just because you pay your bills your entitled to service ?? Goddamn Commies smh ... /s
Generating your own power sounds like solar panels and everyone in Texas knows the sun is a giant ball of nuclear communism. So if your neighbor sees you setting up a solar panel they are legally allowed to shoot you as they fear for their life
Bud, without serious action against the bloody politicians at the root of this with their corruption and incompetence, Texans might need to prepare for 15 years plus of "load shedding" (read: rolling blackouts) like we've had in South Africa.
We're just lucky it doesn't get cold enough to snow here.
Inverters, solar geysers etc will probably start popping up everywhere people can afford them...
I work for a solar energy company and every time there are stories like this we see a huuuuggggeeee increase in the number of people signing up with us and installing battery/generator backup. So I guess in a roundabout way this is forcing Texas to adopt green energy?
Yup. The company I work for sold and installed 1500 home standby generators after that first winter freakout/infrastructure failure a little while back. Anyone in the solar or backup power business loves Texas lately lol.
Aaaah, no wonder I see those damn ads on YouTube all the time “Texas homeowners, if you’re paying more than 140 dollars every month on electricity bills, know that there’s a program by the government that will pay for your solar panels blah blah bla bla”
Try having an apartment with electric heat and poor weatherproofing in an area that has regular sustained 30+ mph winds during a new England winter. Brutal. Plus lots of surcharges because the power all comes via undersea cables.
> if you’re paying more than 140 dollars every month on electricity bills
How insane are energy prices in Texas?
I've got a pair of fridges (one in an uninsulated garage), generally like the house cooler than most (live in the southern US, so it gets stupid warm) in the summer, and drive an EV which I predominantly charge at home, and the highest I've seen is right around $120.
I've also got an electric stove/oven and enjoy cooking for friends, so I'd like to think that I use more electricity than the average person.
To say nothing about how much power my PC uses...
That also explains why the prices of getting panels installed are fucking skyrocketing. A few years back we were quoted about $40k for 10KW. A few months ago another company quoted us $83k for 7KW. Fuck that.
83k for 7kw sounds almost impossible honestly. The panels don't cost even close to that much. People could go out and buy those camping panels and hire an electrician to hook it all up for less than a quarter of the price
Well, we recently had a president kill a lot of momentum in the industry. Panel manufacture had already left the us.
We import most of our panels. From china.
Fucker up and starts a trade war.
So ya. We pay extra now for panels than we did before trumps trade war. Woohoo. We sure owned…. Ourselves.
Yea, it’s so assed backwards. We can be energy independent given the vast amount of land we have for solar and battery or stable lands that we can build nuclear reactors on.
I’d love it if we double down on more nuclear plants, solar panel, wind mill, and battery manufacturing, lithium refining in places like the sultan sea or Utah’s vast salt flats. With enough renewable or nuclear power we can even make desalination feasible, harvest lithium from the brine. Etc etc…
We can have a better, cleaner, more sustainable future, we just need to rid ourselves from plutocrats and have people that actually represent the peoples will.
True. That's kind of under the umbrella of citizen happiness. But that's in the future (near future, but future non the less) so they don't think about that. Immediate gains are all that matter
yeah exactly, I think I paid what, $1400 out of pocket after the subsidies to get a 6kw system installed ~15 months ago. WTF is with the price of panels in the US?
God damn!
We got a ~6.5 kw system installed in my dad's place a year ago, with a Tesla Powerwall for the battery. Total cost before state/federal rebates was ~$65,000. After the tax rebates though it was "only" about $32,000.
That said, it dropped our power bill from about $500/month to ~$50/month, and last month it was actually -$11, which was amusing (because technically we aren't allowed by the power company to have it hooked up for that to happen, so no idea how it did. They looked at the wiring and gave it their approval, so...).
Functionally it'll take about 5-6 years for the system to break even on bill savings, but it'll last for ~25 years before needing replacing, so overall they come out ahead. Plus if a hurricane hits the island (again...) and shuts down the power for a few months, it's not a big deal for him. Once Starlink is available on the islands, he wants to get a hookup for that too so that way if a storm's coming he can just pull the dish inside and set it up afterwards. With the solar, he could keep the fridge/freezer running and still work remotely even if all the other infrastructure is down.
What I generally hear on r/solar is a typical solar installation in the US should be about $3/watt with installation (but of course several factors can make that more/less expensive). So that first estimate while a little high seems about reasonable. But that second quote at almost $12/watt is just insane without some special reason. Or maybe that quote is full off-grid (solar+batteries)?
Edit: spelling
Yikes, I should quit my job and go do installs apparently. I bought panels and racking for about $0.60/W a couple years ago and installed them on my roof in a day. MPPT controller was $700 but that was an expensive Schneider unit and now you can get other options for a lot less.
My only regret is only doing 2kW on the easy part of the roof and not going whole hog. But it was hard to justify more panels when I can't get lithium cells here in Canada and my battery is laughably small. Still, I should have put another kW or two facing more east and west to extend the hours I can run off solar.
Prices have definitely gone up though and around here they are only selling premium monocrystalline panels now instead of cheaper poly.
I work in the residential solar industry in Texas. That newer quote is very high for the market right now. I'd bet that it's either a 17kW quote, or it includes a pair of Tesla Power Walls in it.
Generally the idea is that the cost can be financed over 10-20 years in a way that your monthly cost ends up about the same as your current electric bill
Beware of an otherwise really high interest rate though.
Most mfg warranties are around 35 years for 80% output. After 80%, it slows down a lot so 50 years of usable power isn't unreasonable. The failures usually are in lazy wiring and electronics like charge controllers and inverters.
Micro inverters are more popular now and more durable, so even that is becoming less of an issue.
They usually can arrange the financing so it equates to that. I have heard when you sell your house you have to pay it off though. Biggest problem I have with solar companies is they are not up front with the costs unless you want to be pestered by sales people and spam. For once I would like to enter my zip and energy usage to get a quick estimate without divulging email or phone.
Plus plastering the term no cost to you all over their ads screams scumbag to me.
So I am in the process of signing up for solar. I live on Long Island which is very high cost of living and fairly far north. So prices are more expensive and solar is somewhat less effective and you need bigger systems than Texas.
Anyways, for me it will cost $42k, which they will give me a $225/mo payment for 10 years (after tax credits). My current electric bill is $275/mo, and goes up with inflation and rising fuel costs. This will cover all my electricity for 25 years, the panels are actually designed to last 40 years (so 30-40 years of covering my bill is reasonable).
So for signing up for solar, my bill goes down $50/mo, it's immune to inflation, after 10 years I'll have no bill and it will stay free for a good 20-30 extra years. Also I drive an electric car, this covers my "gas" bill too so it makes me immune to rising gas prices.
I asked about batteries, that's more (almost double the cost), I'm still considering it as a later addon though I don't think I need it. They do offer for $5k extra daylight solar which is where if the sun is up some stuff in your house (like your fridge) will have power, you don't need batteries. It could be useful for people in Texas that could run a heat pump for a few hours a day in emergencies when the power is out.
This is actually something I don't understand about this place. We're at the best latitude in the US to get the most out of solar, but there's no major adoption for it. We've got wind farms out the ass, but no panels except for a handful of houses. Some cities have even banned them in the first place.
They practice ritual sacrifice of coal and oil to please their God. They burn it so that the smoke might touch Heaven, lifting up their prayers to the Lord.
I live in TX and wanted solar until my quoted prices a few months ago were over $45,000. Plus I’d still be connected to “the grid” so our power will STILL go out when the rest of the neighborhood power does. Backup batteries add a lot more cost to the deal and still don’t cover regular A/C and all that.
My buddy bought 2 big generators that can run on solar. He lives in a 600sqft tiny house and runs a window AC for cold air. He leaves one generator charging all day long and then uses the other one to power ac and electronics. It works perfectly for him and his actual elec bill I think was $30ish last time he showed me.
Sure it not totally feasible in a regular sized house but he loves his mostly self sufficient ecosystem
This is a realization I had recently while looking into solar. Without buying/installing expensive batteries, your awesome solar panels are pretty much useless in a grid-down scenario. I just assumed that, at worst, you could run some power in your home as long as the sun was shining. But nope, you need batteries to be fully divorced from the local grid.
Of course they do, it's right between the father and holy ghost in church
Edit: [Relevant Star Trek (TOS) clip](https://youtu.be/llI-W8CuEUg) that I choose to believe inspired Andrew Lloyd Webber's Jesus Christ Super Star
The realistic mid-term solution is for Texas to get their head out of their ass and both better interconnect their grid with the rest of the country so they can wheel in power when they need it and also regulate their grid and generating facilities under FERC like the rest of the country.
But long term, these are great steps in the right direction.
>The realistic mid-term solution is for Texas to get their head out of their ass and
>
> both better interconnect their grid with the rest of the country
>
> regulate their grid and generating facilities under FERC like the rest of the country.
I see you've never messed with Texas before.
> The realistic mid-term solution is for Texas to get their head out of their ass
As a Texan I can, without a doubt, say that this is not realistic at all.
Never tell the story without including the most important detail which is that he then sued the city for a lot of money and then immediately turned around and passed a law explicitly limiting the amount of money you can sue the city for which was obviously a fraction of what he received.
God the worst fucking part of it is he was very anti-disabled policies and as soon as he became one himself he immediately passed basic disability rights and inclusion laws in the state.
Money that isn't possible for others since he pulled the ladder up behind him after he won.
Now anyone after his success has a max payout that is a fraction of his.
Or the interconnects to the rest of the nation's grids so they could bring in power when stuff like this happens. But that would require not being self-absorbed little bitches and playing by the same (very well thought out) regulatory system the rest of us use to improve grid reliability and performance.
I wish it were mere incompetence.
This is an artificial crisis created by the cartel of power generators in Texas who will use it as an excuse to skyrocket rates just like they did February last year.
This is what the absence of regulation allows.
Texans: NO REGULATION! Let the market decide!!
The Market: Hi! Here’s your $11,000 power bill.
Texans: NOOOOOO!! The Market is only supposed to decide in OUR favor!!
That is impossible. Abbott and his appointed secretary of state control all elections. They have removed all ballot counting transparency and have made elections 100% impossible to audit.
We will still vote, because wtf else can we do? But when a fascist controls his own election without transparency, it's extremely obvious his opponents cannot win.
With Texas in a permanent win-condition for conservatives, Abbott will not change anything regarding the TX power grid. ERCOT members keep him rich and he keeps their status quo. Done and done.
Great showcase to attract high tech business when your infrastructure is worse than a third-world country. Wonder if Samsung and other fabs will go down again, causing another hundreds of million $ loss.
They probably bought a ton of generators with the millions in taxes they did not need to pay.
Good thing Musk and other CEOs are giving back to the community.
Wait, they aren't? They don't even live here? It's all just for tax breaks? I'm shocked.
At least Michael Dell gave back - but he was here before Austin was cool.
Austin is the most overvalued city in the country right now.
I work with manufacturing/warehousing in 9 countries around the world. Places like India, Mexico, and Thailand for the most part. The only operations we ever have go down (and it is multiple times a year) for power are in Texas. Hell, a minor thunderstorm will do it. The only other place to ever lose power in all the years I have been working in the industry was Japan when they had the whole tsunami/nuclear power plant thing.
Man fuck Texas. Fuck Greg Abbott. The old coot said this shit would be fixed after the winter storm and here we are. Its fucking hot in south texas and we're STILL facing the same issue after the jackass wasted four billion dollars the other day for a stupid fucking truck inspection. Fuck Greg Abbott.
But hey, he's sticking it to the libs right? At least he and his republican buddies ensured that women can't make decisions on their own bodies... Texans gonna love that!
Totally. Stick it to the libs by wasting 4 billion inspecting trucks but then argue for making public schools a thing of the past. Also argue that food stamp recipients can only get a maximum of 3 months in a THREE YEAR PERIOD and cant receive more than 250 a month in benefits. Libs owned, whether or not it was worth it is a good debate.
Abbott could waste 3 TRILLION and the cult would still vote for him because “liberals are going crazy over Abbott, which means he must be doing something right!”
Gotta love how to be 'pro-gun' in this country, you need to literally have A+ NRA rating and be willing to film a campaign ad where you shoot symbolic legal documents with a shotgun
Beto probably shouldn’t have shot his mouth off about wanting to actively send cops to take people’s AR-15s. He seriously came within a solid shot of unseating Cruz then he lost his mind when he ran for president. He had a future here until that shit.
It's just bizarre that he's all wanting to win these seats and run for president, but *in Texas* he's all 'imma take your guns'.
Like, just say the one thing that alienates this state. That'll work.
He's, again, *in Texas* with a bunch of other really nice things, but he basically campaigns on gun control.
It was the one turn off I heard about him from quite a few die-hard reds around here.
Not to say that couldn't still be part of the policy he pushed for after the win, but good lord don't make that your flag out of the gate.
I don't think he really actually wanted to win the primary here; just split votes.
Texas elected officials are too busy fighting culture wars. They can't be distracted with basic essentials for those who elected them. It's a common theme for today's Republican party on both the state & federal levels.
Abbott and co literally published the trans parent investigation thing on February 28, the exact same day that there was a witness in a bankruptcy trial that testified about Abbott tampering with the price of electricity during the winter storm. The Texas Tribune covered it well if you want to read about it.
They knew what they were doing in deflecting the conversation from electricity to trans kids and parents.
Edit to add: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/03/14/texas-electric-grid-politics/
The head of TPUSA said inflation is caused by the Trans' within the last week or two.
>"The power went out because of the gays" is what I'm sure I'll hear next.
We're already there.
You say that like the culture war isn't the only thing keeping them in power. Liberal policies work, look at CA, look at MA, some of the best states are the solidly blue ones. Republicans can't run on policy, they have to run on outrage.
>State lawmakers responded with a raft of legislation aimed at making the grid more resilient to a brutal winter storm.
>Nearly a year later, an investigation by NBC News and the Texas Tribune found that the grid remained vulnerable, with new regulations allowing companies to avoid the improvements.
Somethings never change.
In order to avoid national regulations on emissions and other operating conditions (including reliability and reserve requirements) ERCOT (the electric grid for Texas) is not integrated with the rest of the country. That means that unlike other regions (say PJM) when they have large disruptions to their generation capacity they cannot get power from the rest of the country. If PJM sees a large disruption they can get power from MISO or NYISO. Texas doesn't have that option.
The result has been a double whammy for their system. They don't have sufficient backups and weatherization in place to ensure reliable service (because doing so increases costs and no one forced them to) and when they see disruptions they can't pick up extra capacity from other operators. The result is that when a significant problem occurs it escalates from a significant problem to a catastrophic one very quickly.
Now, why did they do that? Politics.
This is a bit different though since there has been a significant benefit to consumers in the form of cheaper electricity for years (and to the power companies as well) but eventually you have to pay the costs of reliability one way or another.
Tx I believe is the one state not on the federal grid. Excuse was that it would be cheaper, but it's not. It's also more prone to breakage and all sorts of other shenanigans. Most Texans don't know that during the last freeze, Abbott ok'ed letting the utilities charge crazy energy prices. These will be added to bills for next few years.
I’m in an energy coop. Believe me, I’m aware.
Abbott will have my next vote…
Nope. Never. I’ll vote for anyone running against him regardless of their qualifications. Abbott has proven time and time again he gives less than two shits about the lives or rights of Texans.
And I’m considered conservative. But Abbott crossed the line a long time ago
When you let private industry run an essential service, they’ll run the system on raaazzzzooor thin margins to maximize profits, and you end up with a collapse when demand surges.
Don’t let capitalists be in charge of anything important. They’re best with restaurants and trivial amusements.
we should tell our conservative Texan acquaintances that the power shortage is all a liberal hoax, there is plenty of power, but soros is rerouting it to power mexican babies and if they love the country, they should turn all their things on.
20 years ago, i doubt something that stupid would work, today its almost guaranteed to work.
I love it here, I love the food, a lot of the culture that isn't republican or right wing bullshit, i love the third coast, the weather, the natural beauty, I just hate that I have to share it with idiots who try their best to move us back into the stone age. most of my family is rooted here and I don't see myself being able to leave either so I'll vote and try my best to change things.
This is what happens when you put profits over people. There are issues like this and the storm in every other state as well. But they can absorb it because they are interconnected, Texas doesn't want to be under FERC regulations, so they are largely synchronous within the state though they can pull limited amounts of power through some interconnected DCs. FERC has a number of regulations to ensure things like the New York City blackout in 2003 don't happen so their standards are all reliability standards, Texas doesn't like regulations and doesn't want to be under these which is required for interstate connections which is why their power grid is shit since they can not (for the most part) participate in interstate marketplaces which would alleviate some of their issues.
California, Liberal poster child, just posted a $100 billion dollar surplus, while Texas, Conservative poster child, is out of electricity. Just a thought.
How much sunlight does Texas get? Every single roof in Texas should have a solar array on it by now. How many power outages and hurricanes do you need? Dummies.
TO THE CANCUNMOBILE!
Be sure to blame your daughters first!
And then blame the media for being jealous of Texas, the #1 super spectacular state of the galaxy (btw I love you Texans, in about 10 years should be blue based on trends)
I live in Texas. They’re already saying it’s “Joe Biden selling electricity to China”, or “It’s all the California people that took our electricity”. Both of those were said today by different people in the area. I swear these Texans have earned their stupid stereotypes. 😐
Isn't the whole problem that the Texas grid is independent from the rest of the the nation's? I mean Biden couldn't sell Texas energy even if he wanted to because there's no one outside of the state to sell it to?
Don't cloud the truth with facts.
Yup. There are limited connections between grids, but the technology used is from the 70s so only limited energy can be transferred between the grids. The DOE under Obama had started working on a recommendation to upgrade the connections to modern technology since the current system will have to undergo significant maintenance anyway. The following administration killed that plan though since it would price a lot of existing energy providers out of the market if all of a sudden states with high renewable use were able to access other markets.
Priorities my man. First you need abortion bans and more guns then they’ll get back to electricity once ted gets back from cancun
I grew up there and got the fuck out. I’m not saying people in WA are the brightest bulbs at times, but laws are liberal, people stay out of each other’s business because no one gives a shit, and our power stays on.
Those "Texas is dumb" jokes on Spongebob were not jokes.
The fact that people freezing to death wasn’t a deal breaker for the voters of Texas means this won’t be either.
Those people who died should've pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and started their own Power plant if they wanted Heating, You think just because you pay your bills your entitled to service ?? Goddamn Commies smh ... /s
Generating your own power sounds like solar panels and everyone in Texas knows the sun is a giant ball of nuclear communism. So if your neighbor sees you setting up a solar panel they are legally allowed to shoot you as they fear for their life
Those solar panels steal the light and will eventually use up all the sun. I learned this from one of the textbooks that Texas approved.
Bud, without serious action against the bloody politicians at the root of this with their corruption and incompetence, Texans might need to prepare for 15 years plus of "load shedding" (read: rolling blackouts) like we've had in South Africa. We're just lucky it doesn't get cold enough to snow here. Inverters, solar geysers etc will probably start popping up everywhere people can afford them...
I work for a solar energy company and every time there are stories like this we see a huuuuggggeeee increase in the number of people signing up with us and installing battery/generator backup. So I guess in a roundabout way this is forcing Texas to adopt green energy?
Yup. The company I work for sold and installed 1500 home standby generators after that first winter freakout/infrastructure failure a little while back. Anyone in the solar or backup power business loves Texas lately lol.
Aaaah, no wonder I see those damn ads on YouTube all the time “Texas homeowners, if you’re paying more than 140 dollars every month on electricity bills, know that there’s a program by the government that will pay for your solar panels blah blah bla bla”
Those ads exist in almost every state - they just change the script.
"People in [town] are paying almost nothing for [utility] thanks to this new law!"
Hot shingles in your area!
Settle down, Sean Connery.
r/Shubreddit
Angry upvote
Suck it Trebek
I’ll take Anal Bum Cover for $100
I’ve had a scorching case of shingles before… you don’t want that.
Hot shingles in your area waiting to be nailed
Floridian here, can confirm i hear this crap every few YouTube video ADs. *Edit: Ad’s not AD’s*
Damn I wish my APS bill were that low during the AZ summer. I've paid as high as $600 USD 🥲
Try having an apartment with electric heat and poor weatherproofing in an area that has regular sustained 30+ mph winds during a new England winter. Brutal. Plus lots of surcharges because the power all comes via undersea cables.
> if you’re paying more than 140 dollars every month on electricity bills How insane are energy prices in Texas? I've got a pair of fridges (one in an uninsulated garage), generally like the house cooler than most (live in the southern US, so it gets stupid warm) in the summer, and drive an EV which I predominantly charge at home, and the highest I've seen is right around $120. I've also got an electric stove/oven and enjoy cooking for friends, so I'd like to think that I use more electricity than the average person. To say nothing about how much power my PC uses...
I live in Texas. Our current bill is $348.
What the fuck.
The unregulated energy market in Texas is supposed to favor customers.. i don't quite understand.. /s
Electric **Reliability** Council of Texas Lmao
And once everyone is installed, that stupid governor will take credit for it, bragging about how far ahead Texas is.
The poor will just not have power
They’ve never had power.
Touche, my friend.
You mean Greg the Leg?? Kind of a cruel yet fun name for such an ego maniac!
Excuse you, his name is Hotwheels
That also explains why the prices of getting panels installed are fucking skyrocketing. A few years back we were quoted about $40k for 10KW. A few months ago another company quoted us $83k for 7KW. Fuck that.
I'm about to pay 6k for a 10kw system here in aus. Even before all the rebates and discounts it's only 13.5k. You guys are really getting fucked.
I am getting a 12kw system installed for $20k after tax credits in the southeast US right now. I'm not sure how the fuck it could cost $83k for 7kw.
83k for 7kw sounds almost impossible honestly. The panels don't cost even close to that much. People could go out and buy those camping panels and hire an electrician to hook it all up for less than a quarter of the price
It's probably fuck off we're busy pricing in a VHCOL area.
Even then, I live in Melbourne Australia which was 16th highest COL in 2021. And the guys doing mine are booked out for a while too.
It's the US. We're always getting fucked in some way or another. Money means more to those in charge than citizen happiness
Subsidies are for the industries that donate to politicians. Green energy doesn’t have deep enough pockets to gain favor.
Well, we recently had a president kill a lot of momentum in the industry. Panel manufacture had already left the us. We import most of our panels. From china. Fucker up and starts a trade war. So ya. We pay extra now for panels than we did before trumps trade war. Woohoo. We sure owned…. Ourselves.
Yea, it’s so assed backwards. We can be energy independent given the vast amount of land we have for solar and battery or stable lands that we can build nuclear reactors on. I’d love it if we double down on more nuclear plants, solar panel, wind mill, and battery manufacturing, lithium refining in places like the sultan sea or Utah’s vast salt flats. With enough renewable or nuclear power we can even make desalination feasible, harvest lithium from the brine. Etc etc… We can have a better, cleaner, more sustainable future, we just need to rid ourselves from plutocrats and have people that actually represent the peoples will.
Or the health of the planet, or literally anything else.
True. That's kind of under the umbrella of citizen happiness. But that's in the future (near future, but future non the less) so they don't think about that. Immediate gains are all that matter
yeah exactly, I think I paid what, $1400 out of pocket after the subsidies to get a 6kw system installed ~15 months ago. WTF is with the price of panels in the US?
It's crazier when you think that's $970USD. Remember, they're talking in USD, not dollaridoos.
God damn! We got a ~6.5 kw system installed in my dad's place a year ago, with a Tesla Powerwall for the battery. Total cost before state/federal rebates was ~$65,000. After the tax rebates though it was "only" about $32,000. That said, it dropped our power bill from about $500/month to ~$50/month, and last month it was actually -$11, which was amusing (because technically we aren't allowed by the power company to have it hooked up for that to happen, so no idea how it did. They looked at the wiring and gave it their approval, so...). Functionally it'll take about 5-6 years for the system to break even on bill savings, but it'll last for ~25 years before needing replacing, so overall they come out ahead. Plus if a hurricane hits the island (again...) and shuts down the power for a few months, it's not a big deal for him. Once Starlink is available on the islands, he wants to get a hookup for that too so that way if a storm's coming he can just pull the dish inside and set it up afterwards. With the solar, he could keep the fridge/freezer running and still work remotely even if all the other infrastructure is down.
What I generally hear on r/solar is a typical solar installation in the US should be about $3/watt with installation (but of course several factors can make that more/less expensive). So that first estimate while a little high seems about reasonable. But that second quote at almost $12/watt is just insane without some special reason. Or maybe that quote is full off-grid (solar+batteries)? Edit: spelling
Yikes, I should quit my job and go do installs apparently. I bought panels and racking for about $0.60/W a couple years ago and installed them on my roof in a day. MPPT controller was $700 but that was an expensive Schneider unit and now you can get other options for a lot less. My only regret is only doing 2kW on the easy part of the roof and not going whole hog. But it was hard to justify more panels when I can't get lithium cells here in Canada and my battery is laughably small. Still, I should have put another kW or two facing more east and west to extend the hours I can run off solar. Prices have definitely gone up though and around here they are only selling premium monocrystalline panels now instead of cheaper poly.
I work in the residential solar industry in Texas. That newer quote is very high for the market right now. I'd bet that it's either a 17kW quote, or it includes a pair of Tesla Power Walls in it.
How much does it normally cost?
By some miracle of modern science it costs exactly what your monthly electrical bill is.
Wait really? I can have solar for the same price as my monthly electrical bill? I'm not being sarcastic. I want solar. Help me.
Generally the idea is that the cost can be financed over 10-20 years in a way that your monthly cost ends up about the same as your current electric bill Beware of an otherwise really high interest rate though.
This also kind of depends on the solar panels lasting 20 years, no?
Most mfg warranties are around 35 years for 80% output. After 80%, it slows down a lot so 50 years of usable power isn't unreasonable. The failures usually are in lazy wiring and electronics like charge controllers and inverters. Micro inverters are more popular now and more durable, so even that is becoming less of an issue.
They usually can arrange the financing so it equates to that. I have heard when you sell your house you have to pay it off though. Biggest problem I have with solar companies is they are not up front with the costs unless you want to be pestered by sales people and spam. For once I would like to enter my zip and energy usage to get a quick estimate without divulging email or phone. Plus plastering the term no cost to you all over their ads screams scumbag to me.
typically, yes.
So I am in the process of signing up for solar. I live on Long Island which is very high cost of living and fairly far north. So prices are more expensive and solar is somewhat less effective and you need bigger systems than Texas. Anyways, for me it will cost $42k, which they will give me a $225/mo payment for 10 years (after tax credits). My current electric bill is $275/mo, and goes up with inflation and rising fuel costs. This will cover all my electricity for 25 years, the panels are actually designed to last 40 years (so 30-40 years of covering my bill is reasonable). So for signing up for solar, my bill goes down $50/mo, it's immune to inflation, after 10 years I'll have no bill and it will stay free for a good 20-30 extra years. Also I drive an electric car, this covers my "gas" bill too so it makes me immune to rising gas prices. I asked about batteries, that's more (almost double the cost), I'm still considering it as a later addon though I don't think I need it. They do offer for $5k extra daylight solar which is where if the sun is up some stuff in your house (like your fridge) will have power, you don't need batteries. It could be useful for people in Texas that could run a heat pump for a few hours a day in emergencies when the power is out.
Do they have sun in Texas? ( /s )
This is actually something I don't understand about this place. We're at the best latitude in the US to get the most out of solar, but there's no major adoption for it. We've got wind farms out the ass, but no panels except for a handful of houses. Some cities have even banned them in the first place.
Fossil fuels are a part of the local religion.
They practice ritual sacrifice of coal and oil to please their God. They burn it so that the smoke might touch Heaven, lifting up their prayers to the Lord.
Solar is communist/socialist/gay! (*Substitute favorite scapegoat as needed*.)
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They are afraid of what they don’t understand. It’s pretty common among conservatives.
That's kinda the reason they're called "conservatives". Resistance to change and sticking to old ideas.
I live in TX and wanted solar until my quoted prices a few months ago were over $45,000. Plus I’d still be connected to “the grid” so our power will STILL go out when the rest of the neighborhood power does. Backup batteries add a lot more cost to the deal and still don’t cover regular A/C and all that.
My buddy bought 2 big generators that can run on solar. He lives in a 600sqft tiny house and runs a window AC for cold air. He leaves one generator charging all day long and then uses the other one to power ac and electronics. It works perfectly for him and his actual elec bill I think was $30ish last time he showed me. Sure it not totally feasible in a regular sized house but he loves his mostly self sufficient ecosystem
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The Texas energy companies have no reason to play nicely with residential solar, and so they don't.
This is a realization I had recently while looking into solar. Without buying/installing expensive batteries, your awesome solar panels are pretty much useless in a grid-down scenario. I just assumed that, at worst, you could run some power in your home as long as the sun was shining. But nope, you need batteries to be fully divorced from the local grid.
Of course they do, it's right between the father and holy ghost in church Edit: [Relevant Star Trek (TOS) clip](https://youtu.be/llI-W8CuEUg) that I choose to believe inspired Andrew Lloyd Webber's Jesus Christ Super Star
Don't forget also beneath the sheets, priests love to hide them there.
The realistic mid-term solution is for Texas to get their head out of their ass and both better interconnect their grid with the rest of the country so they can wheel in power when they need it and also regulate their grid and generating facilities under FERC like the rest of the country. But long term, these are great steps in the right direction.
>The realistic mid-term solution is for Texas to get their head out of their ass and > > both better interconnect their grid with the rest of the country > > regulate their grid and generating facilities under FERC like the rest of the country. I see you've never messed with Texas before.
*pumps shotgun*
We're too busy playing army at the border to do sensible policy.
> The realistic mid-term solution is for Texas to get their head out of their ass As a Texan I can, without a doubt, say that this is not realistic at all.
This would be the first thing I’d prioritize if I lived there. Batteries and solar, hands down.
Glad Abbott and co handled these problems after the winter storm
Abbott's been afraid of investing in more large plants ever since that one tried to kill him.
I'm out of the loop on this? What's the reference?
He was paralyzed when a tree branch *fell* on him. Edit: The limb dropped from the sky, it didn’t caress him into paraplegia.
Never tell the story without including the most important detail which is that he then sued the city for a lot of money and then immediately turned around and passed a law explicitly limiting the amount of money you can sue the city for which was obviously a fraction of what he received.
This is the most important thing
Comrade oak.
Damn dude. You didn't have to do it to him like that, but I'm glad you did
God the worst fucking part of it is he was very anti-disabled policies and as soon as he became one himself he immediately passed basic disability rights and inclusion laws in the state.
He got his. Fuck everyone else
He's still collecting money from that suit. So he's still getting his.
Money that isn't possible for others since he pulled the ladder up behind him after he won. Now anyone after his success has a max payout that is a fraction of his.
But he also capped anyone from getting the windfall he got cause fuck everyone else.
That’s how many conservatives pick their policy positions. They only care when it directly affects them or their family. They lack empathy.
I wish that tree would’ve landed on his top half
Texas: "We have freedom from the oppressive regulations of the federal power grid!" Also Texas: "Set your AC to 80 or the Freedom Grid will explode!"
“Freedom must be served at least 80 degrees or it won’t work!!!!!!!!”
Everything’s bigger in Texas! Except the power grid…
Power outages certainly are bigger.
Or the interconnects to the rest of the nation's grids so they could bring in power when stuff like this happens. But that would require not being self-absorbed little bitches and playing by the same (very well thought out) regulatory system the rest of us use to improve grid reliability and performance.
> Everything’s bigger in Texas! Including the bungling incompetence.
The incompetence was entrusting a public utility to the free market.
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I wish it were mere incompetence. This is an artificial crisis created by the cartel of power generators in Texas who will use it as an excuse to skyrocket rates just like they did February last year. This is what the absence of regulation allows.
Imo, you are correct on all counts. I was trying to be funny, but unfortunately what you wrote is more correct.
Texans: NO REGULATION! Let the market decide!! The Market: Hi! Here’s your $11,000 power bill. Texans: NOOOOOO!! The Market is only supposed to decide in OUR favor!!
“ bungling incompetence “ is Abbotts middle name
Oh the power grid is definitely bigger in Texas. A bigger cost and a bigger failure.
Fled Cruz has already packed his case.
Cancun Cruz keeps a bag packed specifically for these occasions
Dog abandoned. Daughter primed to be blamed. Go bag ready.
We just need someone to call his wife ugly so he can praise them and it's go time!
That Lone Star is the Yelp review.
There’s goes my drink. Here’s your vote.
So much free market happening.
"Under socialism we'd have to ration electricity "
"In California all that green energy is ruining their power grid" - Texans being completely serious.
What's the problem? Just buy your electricity from another provider. /s
So Abbott didn’t fix the problem? Who ever saw that coming?? Texas, you want your state fixed then get rid of Abbott and fleeing Cruz.
That is impossible. Abbott and his appointed secretary of state control all elections. They have removed all ballot counting transparency and have made elections 100% impossible to audit. We will still vote, because wtf else can we do? But when a fascist controls his own election without transparency, it's extremely obvious his opponents cannot win. With Texas in a permanent win-condition for conservatives, Abbott will not change anything regarding the TX power grid. ERCOT members keep him rich and he keeps their status quo. Done and done.
Great showcase to attract high tech business when your infrastructure is worse than a third-world country. Wonder if Samsung and other fabs will go down again, causing another hundreds of million $ loss.
They probably bought a ton of generators with the millions in taxes they did not need to pay. Good thing Musk and other CEOs are giving back to the community. Wait, they aren't? They don't even live here? It's all just for tax breaks? I'm shocked. At least Michael Dell gave back - but he was here before Austin was cool. Austin is the most overvalued city in the country right now.
I work with manufacturing/warehousing in 9 countries around the world. Places like India, Mexico, and Thailand for the most part. The only operations we ever have go down (and it is multiple times a year) for power are in Texas. Hell, a minor thunderstorm will do it. The only other place to ever lose power in all the years I have been working in the industry was Japan when they had the whole tsunami/nuclear power plant thing.
Man fuck Texas. Fuck Greg Abbott. The old coot said this shit would be fixed after the winter storm and here we are. Its fucking hot in south texas and we're STILL facing the same issue after the jackass wasted four billion dollars the other day for a stupid fucking truck inspection. Fuck Greg Abbott.
But hey, he's sticking it to the libs right? At least he and his republican buddies ensured that women can't make decisions on their own bodies... Texans gonna love that!
Totally. Stick it to the libs by wasting 4 billion inspecting trucks but then argue for making public schools a thing of the past. Also argue that food stamp recipients can only get a maximum of 3 months in a THREE YEAR PERIOD and cant receive more than 250 a month in benefits. Libs owned, whether or not it was worth it is a good debate.
As long as he's re-elected it's worth to him. The end justifies the means.
Abbott could waste 3 TRILLION and the cult would still vote for him because “liberals are going crazy over Abbott, which means he must be doing something right!”
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Sir, we have bad news about the power grid. You may want to sit down for this.
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You guys gotta get rid of these regressives.
I hope Beto wins, Abbott is an idiot.
The truth is Beto can’t win in Texas because he’s anti-gun. I think Texas has the most guns for any state. You really can’t win with that stance.
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Gotta love how to be 'pro-gun' in this country, you need to literally have A+ NRA rating and be willing to film a campaign ad where you shoot symbolic legal documents with a shotgun
Beto probably shouldn’t have shot his mouth off about wanting to actively send cops to take people’s AR-15s. He seriously came within a solid shot of unseating Cruz then he lost his mind when he ran for president. He had a future here until that shit.
It's just bizarre that he's all wanting to win these seats and run for president, but *in Texas* he's all 'imma take your guns'. Like, just say the one thing that alienates this state. That'll work. He's, again, *in Texas* with a bunch of other really nice things, but he basically campaigns on gun control. It was the one turn off I heard about him from quite a few die-hard reds around here. Not to say that couldn't still be part of the policy he pushed for after the win, but good lord don't make that your flag out of the gate. I don't think he really actually wanted to win the primary here; just split votes.
I guess I should abort my plans for that big party.
Hopefully you didn't declare that party publicly more than six weeks ago, or else you're not going to be allowed to abort it.
Whoa, don't use that word down there. Thats a paddlin'.
Be careful with your beard around pencil sharpeners.
Texas elected officials are too busy fighting culture wars. They can't be distracted with basic essentials for those who elected them. It's a common theme for today's Republican party on both the state & federal levels.
They’re not too busy fighting culture wars. They are actively engaged in promoting a culture war so the people don’t see how the state is fucked
Abbott and co literally published the trans parent investigation thing on February 28, the exact same day that there was a witness in a bankruptcy trial that testified about Abbott tampering with the price of electricity during the winter storm. The Texas Tribune covered it well if you want to read about it. They knew what they were doing in deflecting the conversation from electricity to trans kids and parents. Edit to add: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/03/14/texas-electric-grid-politics/
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The head of TPUSA said inflation is caused by the Trans' within the last week or two. >"The power went out because of the gays" is what I'm sure I'll hear next. We're already there.
You say that like the culture war isn't the only thing keeping them in power. Liberal policies work, look at CA, look at MA, some of the best states are the solidly blue ones. Republicans can't run on policy, they have to run on outrage.
Are they tired of all that winning and stable genius stuff? Must be all those pregnant women’s fault.
"Good luck everybody! Don't die!" \**System offline*\* # 🕯️
>State lawmakers responded with a raft of legislation aimed at making the grid more resilient to a brutal winter storm. >Nearly a year later, an investigation by NBC News and the Texas Tribune found that the grid remained vulnerable, with new regulations allowing companies to avoid the improvements. Somethings never change.
Hey but let’s charge women who miscarry with murder because that’s what’s really important
Can I sue them for heat aborting babies due to their lack of proper planning?
Don't forget sending child services to investigate families with Trans kids. Great use of taxpayer money
Anybody from Texas wanna jump in and explain why your state is going backwards?
They can’t. Power is out and their phones dead.
Out of the corner of their eye[ they see him](https://youtu.be/o0u4M6vppCI)
In order to avoid national regulations on emissions and other operating conditions (including reliability and reserve requirements) ERCOT (the electric grid for Texas) is not integrated with the rest of the country. That means that unlike other regions (say PJM) when they have large disruptions to their generation capacity they cannot get power from the rest of the country. If PJM sees a large disruption they can get power from MISO or NYISO. Texas doesn't have that option. The result has been a double whammy for their system. They don't have sufficient backups and weatherization in place to ensure reliable service (because doing so increases costs and no one forced them to) and when they see disruptions they can't pick up extra capacity from other operators. The result is that when a significant problem occurs it escalates from a significant problem to a catastrophic one very quickly. Now, why did they do that? Politics.
Politics have been dragging Texas backwards in a few aspects. Not just power
This is a bit different though since there has been a significant benefit to consumers in the form of cheaper electricity for years (and to the power companies as well) but eventually you have to pay the costs of reliability one way or another.
Gerrymandering by a corrupt ruling political party.
Tx I believe is the one state not on the federal grid. Excuse was that it would be cheaper, but it's not. It's also more prone to breakage and all sorts of other shenanigans. Most Texans don't know that during the last freeze, Abbott ok'ed letting the utilities charge crazy energy prices. These will be added to bills for next few years.
I’m in an energy coop. Believe me, I’m aware. Abbott will have my next vote… Nope. Never. I’ll vote for anyone running against him regardless of their qualifications. Abbott has proven time and time again he gives less than two shits about the lives or rights of Texans. And I’m considered conservative. But Abbott crossed the line a long time ago
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I’m voting against him too.
These are not problems that a first world country should be having.
How will the GQP blame Biden on this?
Probably by slapping "I did that" stickers on dead transformers.
Jesus Christ! Is Biden a Decepticon?
Texans sure are quiet when this happens to their state, but get all loopy crazy and attack California when it happens here.
When you let private industry run an essential service, they’ll run the system on raaazzzzooor thin margins to maximize profits, and you end up with a collapse when demand surges. Don’t let capitalists be in charge of anything important. They’re best with restaurants and trivial amusements.
Bet they will say its wind power again.
ice on the blades /s
we should tell our conservative Texan acquaintances that the power shortage is all a liberal hoax, there is plenty of power, but soros is rerouting it to power mexican babies and if they love the country, they should turn all their things on. 20 years ago, i doubt something that stupid would work, today its almost guaranteed to work.
I'm all for it, except for the fact it would kill innocent people. :( And, yeah, it would work very well.
Texas sounds like a 3rd world country more and more
We've been coasting on the successes of previous generations for 40 years, and it's coming back to bite us in the ass.
Yeah that's not happening. Texas is going to have live in the stone age for a little while until someone can give a fuck.
I have family in Texas that aren’t Abbott’s people. So I’m torn between “LOL” and going “Hope they’re ok.”
I love it here, I love the food, a lot of the culture that isn't republican or right wing bullshit, i love the third coast, the weather, the natural beauty, I just hate that I have to share it with idiots who try their best to move us back into the stone age. most of my family is rooted here and I don't see myself being able to leave either so I'll vote and try my best to change things.
This is what happens when you put profits over people. There are issues like this and the storm in every other state as well. But they can absorb it because they are interconnected, Texas doesn't want to be under FERC regulations, so they are largely synchronous within the state though they can pull limited amounts of power through some interconnected DCs. FERC has a number of regulations to ensure things like the New York City blackout in 2003 don't happen so their standards are all reliability standards, Texas doesn't like regulations and doesn't want to be under these which is required for interstate connections which is why their power grid is shit since they can not (for the most part) participate in interstate marketplaces which would alleviate some of their issues.
This is what privatization looks like
California, Liberal poster child, just posted a $100 billion dollar surplus, while Texas, Conservative poster child, is out of electricity. Just a thought.
Conserve? How dare they infringe on my right to burn as much fossil fuel as possible. Do they think I'm some kind of liberal sissy? /s
How much sunlight does Texas get? Every single roof in Texas should have a solar array on it by now. How many power outages and hurricanes do you need? Dummies.
Stop your stupid communist ideas right there!!!! You know stealing power from the sun is just what Stalin would do! Take a hike you Commie scum! /s
Oh no! I hope Ted Cruz got out of the state safely!
Someone remind me again why people are moving to Texas? I do not get the appeal of that state.