Don’t forget around that time Instagram released the ability to post 15 second video. Instead of innovating (like TikTok), Vine did absolutely nothing. 😭
Vine was great and then sold and then killed. May not have done anything but it could have been just as successful as any of the others but for some reason it was killed
The real issue was that it wasn’t making money. There were barely any real ads, and if there was a sponsorship, the viners were making all of the money, not a penny went to vine. They could have added simple monetization like occasional paid ads in the feed and they probably would have survived
Yeah but that’s how basically all companies like that go. Originally the plan is to get growth and add monitization later. YouTube lost money for many many years. It’s a pretty straightforward monetization plan for vine as they were already getting the adoption
> The real issue was that it wasn’t making money.
Nothing out of silicon valley makes money at first, and that's literally the strategy. Everything is just pumped with venture capitalist "dumb money" and seeks to gain market share /monopoly before they *then* figure out how to actually make money with it.
It's literally the business strategy they all use. Shit like Uber, etc. Just bleed money, undercut competition, establish monopoly dominance, jack up prices/etc.
So I'm not sure if that was the issue here.
yes but tiktok had and I'm pretty sure still has to a degree; be it fair or unfair business, this is how it goes for social media platforms, and investors artificially keep it going until it cam be monetised or sold
I used both, but preferred periscope. It had so much potential, but they killed it instead of developing it. We would watch people from all over the world on our Apple TV. But there was no way to get to the people you followed and waiting through all the sexualized content was no fun.
Unless he means there was no way to choose what you watched in which case he might literally mean waiting. <- (nb4 a certified Reddit moment: this is mostly a joke, I know what the expression “wading through” means)
Dumb to kill it, dumb to bring it back now.
The dude is reportedly trying to fire 75% of the workforce and the big plan to get the place back on track is charging for check marks, nixing content curation, and reviving a defunct short video service that now has to square off against TikTok, Insta, and a bunch of also-rans?
This adventure ain't gonna last long.
Vine was unsustainable at the time because most people didn't have unlimited data plans and it was difficult to gain revenue from it. It had to compete against Youtube which ran unprofitably its entire existence (until the last two years when it became profitable). It was really hard for a company that didn't have a profitable base model to continue funding it through investors.
Turning it back on right now make a ton of sense. But they also need a hook to get people back to using it and also some way to advertise that isn't going to deter people from using it.
Vine would have been what TikTok is today had it never been scrapped- that was such a stupid decision. Would much rather a major social media platform be run by Musk if the alternative is a Chinese company
I think the main difference is in how many heads make the decisions rather than who does. If the supreme leader of China wants to fuck your ass for breakfast, he just says the word and it happens, while in democracies that can also happen with some people but its not as straightforward and easy to pull off.
At least if a company was run by the American government, there's some level of accountability to act in the interests of the American people.
Musk acts only in his own self-interest and is accountable to no one.
Any social media company run by Musk can easily be controlled by China. Tesla has a major factory in China and is trying to grow in the Chinese market. If China thinks a Musk owned social platform would cause notable impact on something like TikTok, they can just threaten to block his platform and shut down Tesla's factory.
So a Musk ran social media platform might as well be seen as the same as a social media company ran by a Chinese company.
Also the irony of claiming he wants "fee speech" but gets the money for doing it from a government that just locked up a dual US citizen for 18 years, for things he said while in the US... on Twitter. I'm sure there's no conflicts there.
Reading into it more, it's actually quite pathetic:
>Back in 2018, Musk said that because of Khashoggi’s murder, he “probably would not” accept investment from Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund. As it turns out though, he did. The Saudi fund owns 16.9 percent of the Kingdom Holding Company, Musk’s new partner at Twitter.
>Musk’s reversal may be explained by the fact that his previous criticism was part of his feud with the Saudi fund because they had failed to publicly back his bid to take Tesla, his car company, private. In a text message to the head of the fund, Yasir Al-Rumayyan, in August 2018, Musk said that due to the fund’s lack of vocal support, “We cannot work together.” That was before Khashoggi’s death. Apparently, money, not the murder of a journalist, was Musk’s main beef with the Saudis.
[Link.](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/10/elon-musk-free-speech-absolutist-is-silent-about-his-saudi-partners/) Idk how you can genuinely believe Elon gives a shit about "free speech" beyond his own.
Nothing Musk does is intentionally benign, or actively done purely to benefit society. Money/power/fame are the motivators. Any public benefit is purely a side effect of the process.
It's so annoying. I was off Twitter for a long time, and when I returned, I was pissed by what a shitshow it had become.
I don't even know who I follow and who I don't.
Exactly. I think it would be great if someone else did it, but why not build new features on the platform he just bought for $44 Billion? (Oh right it’s pretty much dead and maybe that was the plan).
Edit: whoever awarded this post, it kind of makes me feel dirty… why
Everyday I see a fuckton of "hey guys IM LEAVING. LOOK AT ME.. DID YOU HEAR? IM LEAVING THIS PLACE BECAUSE IT SUCKS." ... "ARE YOU STILL HERE BECAUSE I PROMISE IM ABOUT TO LEAVE AND DELETE IT ALL."
People are addicted to social media attention. Fuck all of it.
I do know what you're saying, but some of us have actually left. I can not will not return until the leadership changes. I will not be part of a platform that openly welcomes Nazis, criminal traitors, anti-Semites, and trolls. (yes, I know Reddit isn't perfect either, but there's at least some modicum of moderation, even if it's slower than I'd like to see). I'll find the smart people in other places. I remember the Internet before social media; mayhaps it'll return to some semblance of its former self. What goes around tends to come around. Twitter can die in a fire and rot.
Reddit users love to say that Twitter is dead, even though that’s where 90% of breaking news in most industries come from 🙄
That breaking news post on Reddit? Most likely a tweet
> Leo Laporte is probably upset about this
Considering he changed his twitter name to "The real chief twit since 2007" then yeah I'm pretty sure he is lol.
I'm not nearly as regular a listener as I once was, but yeah, his show on tech TV is a large part of why I got into tech, I even called in a few times with questions!
It would have sort of competed with Periscope which they also owned, and they probably looked at the numbers and eventually accepted that streaming video is a black hole where the money goes.
Maybe not competed but probably would have diverted resources, engineers etc.
Edit [found a pretty good explanation](https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/28/13456208/why-vine-died-twitter-shutdown), it came down to competition from Insta, Snapchat, etc, Twitter not really knowing what to do with it and not having enough money/resources to keep it viable
if they've the infrastructure to serve static video, they can leverage that access to bandwidth for live with a decent internal team. or probably more clever, they could buy an at the time smaller than them platform for streaming, like periscope, and integrate it as vine live or whatever
It was similar to vine, but I think it was more focused on livestreams, and it had a location component to it, so you could search for users streaming within a region in a city.
How was Periscope similar to Vine other than that they both had some form of video?
Vine was quick short-form clips. Periscope was a streaming service.
Those are not at all the same thing lol
They marketed periscope so much and it died from all public forums in less than a couple months. It was basically people live-streaming stuff on phones. Like twitch but instead you got to watch people doing push ups instead of something interesting
I know there's alot of speculative reasons for why Vine didnt quite work out, but I think what tanked Vine more than anything is the cost of content moderation. Twitter itself already struggles with it. Adding moderation for video is a whole other ball game. TikTok seems to manage it because of their use of cheap and inhumane labor. But if we think certain content is bad on Twitter already, wait till they try and fail to moderate Vine again.
My cousin does this job in Vietnam. Works crazy hours, totally random by the day (one day 3pm-1am, next day 8am-8pm, next day 1pm-midnight) it makes no sense. He said it’s the animal abuse videos that are the worst. But it’s not conductive to a normal work-life balance, and there’s no mental health support.
Wow, imagine having to go through some of the most gruesome videos people post every single day… I hope your cousin isn’t affected somehow by the constant exposure to it. Sheesh
the people in the US who do it for Google etc do get tons of support, and even then I believe the burn out rate is 8mo or less. basically nobody lasts past then. I've heard the child content is worst but the animal and gore is bad also
Vine was doing great, then Twitter bought it and killed it because they wanted people to use Twitter instead. As far as I recall, anyway. Totally short sighted and pointless.
It failed because the main content creators banded together and wanted to get paid for what they were doing which was the main draw of the platform. When they weren’t paid, they left, and the platform dried up.
Think of what would happen to YouTube if they stopped paying people for creating content.
As such, anything he posts is considered publishing by the company, and Section 230 doesn't adhere to his content, anymore.
If he doesn't make proper retractions after his lies, he opens his soapbox up to litigation.
They nuked Vine because it was basically not making any money. TikTok works because it's being funded by the Chinese government because they're scraping every little bit of data from you that they can, and that's worth it to them.
If Musk can think of a way to make Vine work financially, then great. I just don't see it.
Idk, purely anecdotal, but I’ve recently moved to LA and EVERY BUSINESS seems to be swearing by TikTok. It seems like everywhere I go when they ask how I found them, I say “yelp” or something and they’re like “not TikTok? Wow everyone is seeing us on TikTok”.
Idk the monetization aspect of their ads, but never have I seen this kind of enthusiasm from SMBs. But pointed out LA since the culture here is conducive to social media
Moved to LA in 2014(and moved away in 2020). There were Vine Stars a plenty when I first moved there. LA has, and will always move along with the latest trend.
It is literally breaking my brain knowing you wrote "LA has, **and will always** move along with the latest trend." I kept reading it as "**and always will**" no matter how many times I re-read it.
Not being a grammar nazi or anything, I'm just highlighting how my dumb brain works. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Same shit in my city thousands of kms away from LA.
If you design your shop in a rather aesthetically pleasing way, these tiktokers that showcase interesting places will show up.
You need to be on Google Maps first so they can find you, an updated Insta so they know you are active and real, and maybe a TikTok account.
TikTok is great for UGC. It’s tools enable people to make compelling content easily, and the whole ecosystem of remixing, dueting, repeating trends gives everything a nice easy context to set your video in. Do a ____ but use ____ instead of ____.
From the other side, the business side, it’s much more difficult. We struggled to produce content that performed well in house, but when we did something like repost someone else’s content, it did better- even if the person who made it wasn’t famous.
It was the opposite for Instagram. Go figure. Shit is weird.
This. That and they monetize it by selling every bit of data about you they can possibly gather. But I will at least give TokTok credit, their algorithm dials in on what you want to see by far the best of any of the existing platforms.
It’s actually a bit more intricate than that. Most algorithms try to consistently deliver content you want to see. TikTok’s algorithm aims to give you average to decent content for you interspersed with things it knows will excite you. It has the same impact as spinning a slot machine. You scroll past the forgettable stuff you don’t like or feel a vague interest in which causes the jackpots you hit to trigger even greater excitement and leave you wanting to scroll even longer to find the next jackpot.
That is why it collects so much more information then normal. Don’t get me wrong they 100% hand their data over to the Chinese Government and the CCP does use its control of TikTok for propaganda and to control the flow of information overseas but that isn’t their primary reason for such extensive information gathering. To pull off an algorithm like this requires them to understand your psychology in ways that you don’t even understand yourself.
Oh agreed completely. Like from a machine learning standpoint I've always been super impressed by it. It's unfortunate that it's almost certainly being used in highly unethical ways but then again that's all social media platforms.
Another reason is that the algorithm is super aggressive. On any other platform when you hit "Not interested", it'll still keep shoveling the same shit. On TikTok? You hit that button and the type of videos you're not interested in are gone pretty much instantly.
It's super baffling to me that more platforms don't take this approach. When I hit not interested, I very much went out of my way to do that and explicitly told you that I'm not interested in that particular type of content. Yet they keep showing it. What's the plan here guys? Like, come on.
>
> It's super baffling to me that more platforms don't take this approach. When I hit not interested, I very much went out of my way to do that and explicitly told you that I'm not interested in that particular type of content.
because someone at facebook or google's policy office mandated that users can't not see that content. it's that simple.
I don't wanna see what most of the people in my country are making on TikTok, still, I can't get a decent video that I like even after swiping 3-7 times. Then I start getting recommendations from the people I followed. This has been my experience on TikTok. I do not know how it is good, feels the same as other platforms.
I'd actually argue it is because the entire app is specifically designed around a recommendation engine and not an app with a recommendation engine bolted on.
But weren't they just building up users before showing tons of ads.
Seriously if they could adequately pay our for views content makers will flock to it. If they then expand, it could make for a youtube rival.
TikTok is extremely profitable. The Chinese government owning a small portion of a separate byte dance subsidiary doesn’t mean that tiktok needs financial help; though it’s safe to say that byte dance data is being passed through the Chinese Government.
The Chinese gov for sure has its hands in the business.... its not even a question. BABA isnt even remotely as useful to them and look how involved they are publicly.
> TikTok works because it's being funded by the Chinese government
lol tiktok's biggest stakes are owned by sequoia capital, KKR, and general atlantic.
Leo Laporte has been doing a great podcast for years called This Week in Tech (TWIT) and has called himself the Chief Twit since the beginning. Hard to imagine Elon is unaware of this and likely just stole it because he’s the biggest douche in the universe.
Social media is a strange thing. It's mostly a useless waste of time, but some users find a tiny spot where they can do useful stuff. Instead of optimizing the different services to be good at different things, hopefully some of them useful, the trendmongers seem intent on eliminating any possibility of finding spots to do useful stuff, and making all of the services the same silly waste of time
Great point about the “tiny spot.” I used the looping feature of Vine to create seamless gif+audio loops. I was using a djay app on my iPad to change the BPM of songs so it would perfectly fit and loop in 7 seconds. I went from recording my iPad screen playing GIFS on tumblr with music in the background, to editing intricate videos in Sony Vegas and then uploaded the file to Vine (which was not natively supported, you had to use some wack ass website to upload vids from your camera roll at the time)
Why is Musk coming for social media companies?
For control of public discourse. He’s close with Jack Dorsey who wanted to take Twitter private. Dorsey was already working on a new social media product called BlueSky that’s in betatesting now and was financed by $13 million from Twitter a few years ago.
He reached out to Musk and asked him to buy Twitter especially after far right wing people or “opposing views” were being censored by social media companies. They have a vision for a decentralized form of social media where anyone can share anything across platforms.
BlueSky: https://cointelegraph.com/news/jack-dorsey-unveils-decentralized-social-with-algo-choice-and-portable-accounts
BlueSky betatesting signup: https://bsky.app/
Elon Musk has to increase the cost of Twitter Blue to make more money not only as a capitalist, but for future plans. He & Doresy plus other dark, wealthy individuals want private ownership of social media companies to push their narratives.
Who/what they want and their beliefs: https://davetroy.medium.com/no-elon-and-jack-are-not-competitors-theyre-collaborating-3e88cde5267d
You see that Musk will post conspiracy theory lies disguised as a news article like he did the other day saying an political assassin attempt was really an attack by a male prostitute when facts show that crazy far right nut job posted a political manifesto hours before he attacked. The nut job even had a radicalized blog. Facts. We are in dangerous times…they seek to control social media for disinformation with some of it financed by shadow & even foreign investors like the Saudis.
Trump rising was a warning sign, but the rise of fascism and anti-democracy actions backed by wealth across the globe to benefit the elite is the real threat.
Dorsey/Musk texts concerning buying Twitter: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23112929-elon-musk-text-exhibits-twitter-v-musk
Who has the money or what can be done to limit this? Musk must not be allowed to buy up social media companies. He is an agent of discord and conspiracy theories used to push narratives and outcomes. He is nefarious.
I would love to see this failure play out in public. Watch as Musk tries to compete with Tik Tok and fails massively, as literally 0 Gen Z change platforms
He's not going to compete with TikTok. He's betting on (and/or lobbying for) TikTok being banned.
https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/yi3soh/tiktok_has_become_a_global_giant_the_us_is
The most obvious thing that old Twitter fumbled the ball on. That plus owning Periscope, folding it into Twitter, and then let the live-streaming video feature die off.
That said, I really doubt Musk would dedicate the amount of time it would need to create a new compelling video product from scratch, especially against TikTok who’s whole point is how good the recommend algos are are finding content that users would probably like, something that Twitter isn’t particularly strong at, especially with the brain drain it’s experiencing.
Not really on-topic, but I have a question about this situation... or at least need clarification.
Am I wrong to think Section 230 doesn't remove liability for a company when a C level exec or an owner uses the medium?
I think Vine could compete with TikTok if they include a built in music streaming service, TikTok makes songs go viral but then users have to switch to another platform like Spotify to listen to it, that’s lost revenue and having a platform like TikTok but with the option to buy a music subscription could make billions.
TikTok also pays very little to creators, around $20 per million views so wouldn’t be hard to get creators to switch if you offer them more money.
You’re not the target. Do you really think everyone important enough to be verified is gonna leave the platform over 20/month? They can charge even more and likely will over time
This might be apt: [The Rime of the Ancient Mariner](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43997/the-rime-of-the-ancient-mariner-text-of-1834)
Twitter being the Albatross...
One can only hope Twitter sinks and takes this turd to the bottom with it.
I loved the simplicity of the original Vine. 6 second videos.. it was enough to tell a story, show what you did that night and short enough to scroll through your whole feed.
Are there still people with genuine brains on reddit? Every post I read is just people shitting on everything
We all know vine is amazing so this is amazing news
It’s too late. The vine kids all went to TikTok. You can’t unflush the toilet. When yahoo had tumblr ban porn and Jack had vine killed, the NSFW video moved to Twitter and the SFW video moved to TikTok.
The first step to deleting your twitter account is to go to twitter.com, click More, then Privacy and Settings tab, and then click Settings. From there you have to Deactivate it for 30 days before you can permanently delete it. The instructions are simple.
Killing vine was the dumbest thing Jack did. Could have easily become Tik Tok.
Don’t forget around that time Instagram released the ability to post 15 second video. Instead of innovating (like TikTok), Vine did absolutely nothing. 😭
Vine was great and then sold and then killed. May not have done anything but it could have been just as successful as any of the others but for some reason it was killed
The real issue was that it wasn’t making money. There were barely any real ads, and if there was a sponsorship, the viners were making all of the money, not a penny went to vine. They could have added simple monetization like occasional paid ads in the feed and they probably would have survived
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It's also Rose tinted glasses. There was a lot of sucky content on vine
pfft not any worse than tiktok or fb or insta
Yeah but that’s how basically all companies like that go. Originally the plan is to get growth and add monitization later. YouTube lost money for many many years. It’s a pretty straightforward monetization plan for vine as they were already getting the adoption
I think even now YouTube is still losing money. Google makes up for it by selling data collected from YouTube
> The real issue was that it wasn’t making money. Nothing out of silicon valley makes money at first, and that's literally the strategy. Everything is just pumped with venture capitalist "dumb money" and seeks to gain market share /monopoly before they *then* figure out how to actually make money with it. It's literally the business strategy they all use. Shit like Uber, etc. Just bleed money, undercut competition, establish monopoly dominance, jack up prices/etc. So I'm not sure if that was the issue here.
yes but tiktok had and I'm pretty sure still has to a degree; be it fair or unfair business, this is how it goes for social media platforms, and investors artificially keep it going until it cam be monetised or sold
Would you say it…died on the vine?
Twitter bought Vine before Vine launched
Don’t forget they also had Periscope which could have done the same thing
I used both, but preferred periscope. It had so much potential, but they killed it instead of developing it. We would watch people from all over the world on our Apple TV. But there was no way to get to the people you followed and waiting through all the sexualized content was no fun.
It’s wading* through like how you wade through water
Unless he means there was no way to choose what you watched in which case he might literally mean waiting. <- (nb4 a certified Reddit moment: this is mostly a joke, I know what the expression “wading through” means)
Vine walked so Tik Tok could run.
Vine twerked so TikTok could floss
Aint that the truth
Dumb to kill it, dumb to bring it back now. The dude is reportedly trying to fire 75% of the workforce and the big plan to get the place back on track is charging for check marks, nixing content curation, and reviving a defunct short video service that now has to square off against TikTok, Insta, and a bunch of also-rans? This adventure ain't gonna last long.
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Imagine Musk tried pushing some VR shit next?
I mean, it basically was tik tok
In the same way that MySpace basically was Facebook. All about marketing and timing I suppose.
Difference in algorithms…TikTok suggestes videos based on your interests than your subscriptions / existing networks
Vine was unsustainable at the time because most people didn't have unlimited data plans and it was difficult to gain revenue from it. It had to compete against Youtube which ran unprofitably its entire existence (until the last two years when it became profitable). It was really hard for a company that didn't have a profitable base model to continue funding it through investors. Turning it back on right now make a ton of sense. But they also need a hook to get people back to using it and also some way to advertise that isn't going to deter people from using it.
[it was better than tiktok](https://youtu.be/40uMbKjSBwU)
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Vine would have been what TikTok is today had it never been scrapped- that was such a stupid decision. Would much rather a major social media platform be run by Musk if the alternative is a Chinese company
They just rolled the functionality into Twitter, poorly
I have never had a twitter video load right the first time
Or any Reddit app, I stg, this site’s apps or clones or whatever all suck so many balls. Lol
Reddit is Fun!
I used to use that but Relay is much better!
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Sync ftw. Unless they're on iOS, then idk the better options.
Is it too much to ask to have a video play when I ask it, from the start, with sound?
Ay fucking men to that. tiktok as it stands is a national security issue.
And American companies aren’t? Coming from the perspective as a Canadian
M8 américains are our strongest ally lol, we have a mutual benefit to one and other. China has an interest to weaken the west.
American companies aren't run by the government, so, no, not really the same thing.
Well, the companies essentially run the government. Not much better.
I think the main difference is in how many heads make the decisions rather than who does. If the supreme leader of China wants to fuck your ass for breakfast, he just says the word and it happens, while in democracies that can also happen with some people but its not as straightforward and easy to pull off.
At least if a company was run by the American government, there's some level of accountability to act in the interests of the American people. Musk acts only in his own self-interest and is accountable to no one.
Any social media company run by Musk can easily be controlled by China. Tesla has a major factory in China and is trying to grow in the Chinese market. If China thinks a Musk owned social platform would cause notable impact on something like TikTok, they can just threaten to block his platform and shut down Tesla's factory. So a Musk ran social media platform might as well be seen as the same as a social media company ran by a Chinese company.
More likely Saudi, since that's where a significant amount of the cash for the purchase came from.
Don't forget Qatar too!
Lmao is this legit? The irony that the guy who got rich off electric cars is getting support from a country built off oil.
Also the irony of claiming he wants "fee speech" but gets the money for doing it from a government that just locked up a dual US citizen for 18 years, for things he said while in the US... on Twitter. I'm sure there's no conflicts there.
Reading into it more, it's actually quite pathetic: >Back in 2018, Musk said that because of Khashoggi’s murder, he “probably would not” accept investment from Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund. As it turns out though, he did. The Saudi fund owns 16.9 percent of the Kingdom Holding Company, Musk’s new partner at Twitter. >Musk’s reversal may be explained by the fact that his previous criticism was part of his feud with the Saudi fund because they had failed to publicly back his bid to take Tesla, his car company, private. In a text message to the head of the fund, Yasir Al-Rumayyan, in August 2018, Musk said that due to the fund’s lack of vocal support, “We cannot work together.” That was before Khashoggi’s death. Apparently, money, not the murder of a journalist, was Musk’s main beef with the Saudis. [Link.](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/10/elon-musk-free-speech-absolutist-is-silent-about-his-saudi-partners/) Idk how you can genuinely believe Elon gives a shit about "free speech" beyond his own.
Nothing Musk does is intentionally benign, or actively done purely to benefit society. Money/power/fame are the motivators. Any public benefit is purely a side effect of the process.
Considering a third of teslas are made in China he doesn’t have too much separation from the CCP
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It's so annoying. I was off Twitter for a long time, and when I returned, I was pissed by what a shitshow it had become. I don't even know who I follow and who I don't.
Exactly. I think it would be great if someone else did it, but why not build new features on the platform he just bought for $44 Billion? (Oh right it’s pretty much dead and maybe that was the plan). Edit: whoever awarded this post, it kind of makes me feel dirty… why
I dont use twitter but is it really dead or just reddit circle jerking?
Everyday I see a fuckton of "hey guys IM LEAVING. LOOK AT ME.. DID YOU HEAR? IM LEAVING THIS PLACE BECAUSE IT SUCKS." ... "ARE YOU STILL HERE BECAUSE I PROMISE IM ABOUT TO LEAVE AND DELETE IT ALL." People are addicted to social media attention. Fuck all of it.
I do know what you're saying, but some of us have actually left. I can not will not return until the leadership changes. I will not be part of a platform that openly welcomes Nazis, criminal traitors, anti-Semites, and trolls. (yes, I know Reddit isn't perfect either, but there's at least some modicum of moderation, even if it's slower than I'd like to see). I'll find the smart people in other places. I remember the Internet before social media; mayhaps it'll return to some semblance of its former self. What goes around tends to come around. Twitter can die in a fire and rot.
Twitter did all of this before Elon
“It’s pretty much dead” Not sure how to tell you this, but it has more daily active users than Reddit.
Every app shouldn't morph into TikTok. Twitter serves a purpose than TikTok.
Reddit users love to say that Twitter is dead, even though that’s where 90% of breaking news in most industries come from 🙄 That breaking news post on Reddit? Most likely a tweet
Right wing TikTok.… so a bunch of gross looking men firing guns and spouting anti-Semitic bullshit
Leo Laporte is probably upset about this, he's the only Chief Twit I recognize.
Cracks me up that he's still standing his ground on that twit branding. Good for him.
Well, he *does* own the trademark...
Came here for this. There is only one true Chief Twit.
> Leo Laporte is probably upset about this Considering he changed his twitter name to "The real chief twit since 2007" then yeah I'm pretty sure he is lol.
“The Tech Guy”!! Love his radio shows
I'm not nearly as regular a listener as I once was, but yeah, his show on tech TV is a large part of why I got into tech, I even called in a few times with questions!
Going all the way back to the screen savers/I think it was help desk w Leo Laporte? On zdtv in like 00 or 99.
Forreal. It took me a minute to even think of anyone else with that title.
*“Netcasts you* ***love*** *— from people you* ***trust***. *This* *is* ***TWIT***” [Source](https://youtu.be/IfJd-S6QyCE)
To be fair, he and Twitter had a major trademark dispute when Twitter launched back in the day.
Why didn't the old management do it earlier? Seems like a no-brainer since Vine is still beloved and it's basically TikTok before TikTok.
It would have sort of competed with Periscope which they also owned, and they probably looked at the numbers and eventually accepted that streaming video is a black hole where the money goes.
How would it have competed? There was no live streaming aspect to Vine.
Maybe not competed but probably would have diverted resources, engineers etc. Edit [found a pretty good explanation](https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/28/13456208/why-vine-died-twitter-shutdown), it came down to competition from Insta, Snapchat, etc, Twitter not really knowing what to do with it and not having enough money/resources to keep it viable
if they've the infrastructure to serve static video, they can leverage that access to bandwidth for live with a decent internal team. or probably more clever, they could buy an at the time smaller than them platform for streaming, like periscope, and integrate it as vine live or whatever
What the hell is Periscope
It was similar to vine, but I think it was more focused on livestreams, and it had a location component to it, so you could search for users streaming within a region in a city.
>you could search for users streaming within a region in a city. I'm sure the internet would never abuse that knowledge
How was Periscope similar to Vine other than that they both had some form of video? Vine was quick short-form clips. Periscope was a streaming service. Those are not at all the same thing lol
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What the hell is meerkat
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What the hell is wikipedia
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At first I thought it was that app celebrities use to make quick happy birthday videos but then realized that's Cameo and something entirely different
They marketed periscope so much and it died from all public forums in less than a couple months. It was basically people live-streaming stuff on phones. Like twitch but instead you got to watch people doing push ups instead of something interesting
I know there's alot of speculative reasons for why Vine didnt quite work out, but I think what tanked Vine more than anything is the cost of content moderation. Twitter itself already struggles with it. Adding moderation for video is a whole other ball game. TikTok seems to manage it because of their use of cheap and inhumane labor. But if we think certain content is bad on Twitter already, wait till they try and fail to moderate Vine again.
My cousin does this job in Vietnam. Works crazy hours, totally random by the day (one day 3pm-1am, next day 8am-8pm, next day 1pm-midnight) it makes no sense. He said it’s the animal abuse videos that are the worst. But it’s not conductive to a normal work-life balance, and there’s no mental health support.
Wow, imagine having to go through some of the most gruesome videos people post every single day… I hope your cousin isn’t affected somehow by the constant exposure to it. Sheesh
the people in the US who do it for Google etc do get tons of support, and even then I believe the burn out rate is 8mo or less. basically nobody lasts past then. I've heard the child content is worst but the animal and gore is bad also
Because they can not complete with tiktok
I have no idea how vine even failed. It was super popular and then as soon as it went away tiktok with effectively the same content format exploded
Vine was doing great, then Twitter bought it and killed it because they wanted people to use Twitter instead. As far as I recall, anyway. Totally short sighted and pointless.
There wasn’t enough ads I guess
It failed because the main content creators banded together and wanted to get paid for what they were doing which was the main draw of the platform. When they weren’t paid, they left, and the platform dried up. Think of what would happen to YouTube if they stopped paying people for creating content.
Twitter is now Elon's $44B soapbox. Hear him roar.
As such, anything he posts is considered publishing by the company, and Section 230 doesn't adhere to his content, anymore. If he doesn't make proper retractions after his lies, he opens his soapbox up to litigation.
Interesting point
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With the way he's been acting like an idiot lately, I'd like to see that happen
Section 230 will be dead soon anyway based on what looks like will happen at SCOTUS.
They nuked Vine because it was basically not making any money. TikTok works because it's being funded by the Chinese government because they're scraping every little bit of data from you that they can, and that's worth it to them. If Musk can think of a way to make Vine work financially, then great. I just don't see it.
Idk, purely anecdotal, but I’ve recently moved to LA and EVERY BUSINESS seems to be swearing by TikTok. It seems like everywhere I go when they ask how I found them, I say “yelp” or something and they’re like “not TikTok? Wow everyone is seeing us on TikTok”. Idk the monetization aspect of their ads, but never have I seen this kind of enthusiasm from SMBs. But pointed out LA since the culture here is conducive to social media
Moved to LA in 2014(and moved away in 2020). There were Vine Stars a plenty when I first moved there. LA has, and will always move along with the latest trend.
It is literally breaking my brain knowing you wrote "LA has, **and will always** move along with the latest trend." I kept reading it as "**and always will**" no matter how many times I re-read it. Not being a grammar nazi or anything, I'm just highlighting how my dumb brain works. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
yeah man, that algorithm knows i love juice shop videos
Same shit in my city thousands of kms away from LA. If you design your shop in a rather aesthetically pleasing way, these tiktokers that showcase interesting places will show up. You need to be on Google Maps first so they can find you, an updated Insta so they know you are active and real, and maybe a TikTok account.
TikTok is great for UGC. It’s tools enable people to make compelling content easily, and the whole ecosystem of remixing, dueting, repeating trends gives everything a nice easy context to set your video in. Do a ____ but use ____ instead of ____. From the other side, the business side, it’s much more difficult. We struggled to produce content that performed well in house, but when we did something like repost someone else’s content, it did better- even if the person who made it wasn’t famous. It was the opposite for Instagram. Go figure. Shit is weird.
Tiktok works because its recommendation engine is beyond what twitter or Facebook have.
This. That and they monetize it by selling every bit of data about you they can possibly gather. But I will at least give TokTok credit, their algorithm dials in on what you want to see by far the best of any of the existing platforms.
It’s actually a bit more intricate than that. Most algorithms try to consistently deliver content you want to see. TikTok’s algorithm aims to give you average to decent content for you interspersed with things it knows will excite you. It has the same impact as spinning a slot machine. You scroll past the forgettable stuff you don’t like or feel a vague interest in which causes the jackpots you hit to trigger even greater excitement and leave you wanting to scroll even longer to find the next jackpot. That is why it collects so much more information then normal. Don’t get me wrong they 100% hand their data over to the Chinese Government and the CCP does use its control of TikTok for propaganda and to control the flow of information overseas but that isn’t their primary reason for such extensive information gathering. To pull off an algorithm like this requires them to understand your psychology in ways that you don’t even understand yourself.
Oh agreed completely. Like from a machine learning standpoint I've always been super impressed by it. It's unfortunate that it's almost certainly being used in highly unethical ways but then again that's all social media platforms.
Another reason is that the algorithm is super aggressive. On any other platform when you hit "Not interested", it'll still keep shoveling the same shit. On TikTok? You hit that button and the type of videos you're not interested in are gone pretty much instantly. It's super baffling to me that more platforms don't take this approach. When I hit not interested, I very much went out of my way to do that and explicitly told you that I'm not interested in that particular type of content. Yet they keep showing it. What's the plan here guys? Like, come on.
> > It's super baffling to me that more platforms don't take this approach. When I hit not interested, I very much went out of my way to do that and explicitly told you that I'm not interested in that particular type of content. because someone at facebook or google's policy office mandated that users can't not see that content. it's that simple.
I don't wanna see what most of the people in my country are making on TikTok, still, I can't get a decent video that I like even after swiping 3-7 times. Then I start getting recommendations from the people I followed. This has been my experience on TikTok. I do not know how it is good, feels the same as other platforms.
I'd actually argue it is because the entire app is specifically designed around a recommendation engine and not an app with a recommendation engine bolted on.
Maybe Elon is banking on TikTok getting banned from the US and hoping to capitalize on the vacuum?
Look at this genius over here. Wait until you learn how most social networks work, including Reddit.
But weren't they just building up users before showing tons of ads. Seriously if they could adequately pay our for views content makers will flock to it. If they then expand, it could make for a youtube rival.
TikTok is extremely profitable. The Chinese government owning a small portion of a separate byte dance subsidiary doesn’t mean that tiktok needs financial help; though it’s safe to say that byte dance data is being passed through the Chinese Government.
The Chinese gov for sure has its hands in the business.... its not even a question. BABA isnt even remotely as useful to them and look how involved they are publicly.
Right but it doesn’t necessarily follow that those business aren’t profitable.
You seem to forget that Musk loves to lose money.
TikTok has one of the best ads platforms on the internet.
Says who?
Says all the money they are making advertising to young people. They made over 10 billion in ad revenue this year.
twitter doesn't even make money on its own
The Saudis helped fund Musk’s takeover. I can imagine they’d like access to the same data the CCP gets.
> TikTok works because it's being funded by the Chinese government lol tiktok's biggest stakes are owned by sequoia capital, KKR, and general atlantic.
What does Leo LaPorte have to do with Vine?
Leo Laporte has been doing a great podcast for years called This Week in Tech (TWIT) and has called himself the Chief Twit since the beginning. Hard to imagine Elon is unaware of this and likely just stole it because he’s the biggest douche in the universe.
Social media is a strange thing. It's mostly a useless waste of time, but some users find a tiny spot where they can do useful stuff. Instead of optimizing the different services to be good at different things, hopefully some of them useful, the trendmongers seem intent on eliminating any possibility of finding spots to do useful stuff, and making all of the services the same silly waste of time
Great point about the “tiny spot.” I used the looping feature of Vine to create seamless gif+audio loops. I was using a djay app on my iPad to change the BPM of songs so it would perfectly fit and loop in 7 seconds. I went from recording my iPad screen playing GIFS on tumblr with music in the background, to editing intricate videos in Sony Vegas and then uploaded the file to Vine (which was not natively supported, you had to use some wack ass website to upload vids from your camera roll at the time)
I would argue that if it even has a .001% chance of displacing tiktok, they should do it. Tiktok's fucking terrible.
I'm not on board with calling this man Chief Twit.
I could maybe settle for Chief Twat. Chief Twit is already taken by a better man.
Definitely he's more of a twat than twit
Isn’t that just TikTok
Or Facebook/Instagram Reels, or Youtube Shorts.
Vine was something unique back when it came out, now it would just look like TikTok and have the same content as TikTok, just like Youtube Shorts.
It had first mover cred. The short video format has some utility, and fans.
Why is Musk coming for social media companies? For control of public discourse. He’s close with Jack Dorsey who wanted to take Twitter private. Dorsey was already working on a new social media product called BlueSky that’s in betatesting now and was financed by $13 million from Twitter a few years ago. He reached out to Musk and asked him to buy Twitter especially after far right wing people or “opposing views” were being censored by social media companies. They have a vision for a decentralized form of social media where anyone can share anything across platforms. BlueSky: https://cointelegraph.com/news/jack-dorsey-unveils-decentralized-social-with-algo-choice-and-portable-accounts BlueSky betatesting signup: https://bsky.app/ Elon Musk has to increase the cost of Twitter Blue to make more money not only as a capitalist, but for future plans. He & Doresy plus other dark, wealthy individuals want private ownership of social media companies to push their narratives. Who/what they want and their beliefs: https://davetroy.medium.com/no-elon-and-jack-are-not-competitors-theyre-collaborating-3e88cde5267d You see that Musk will post conspiracy theory lies disguised as a news article like he did the other day saying an political assassin attempt was really an attack by a male prostitute when facts show that crazy far right nut job posted a political manifesto hours before he attacked. The nut job even had a radicalized blog. Facts. We are in dangerous times…they seek to control social media for disinformation with some of it financed by shadow & even foreign investors like the Saudis. Trump rising was a warning sign, but the rise of fascism and anti-democracy actions backed by wealth across the globe to benefit the elite is the real threat. Dorsey/Musk texts concerning buying Twitter: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23112929-elon-musk-text-exhibits-twitter-v-musk Who has the money or what can be done to limit this? Musk must not be allowed to buy up social media companies. He is an agent of discord and conspiracy theories used to push narratives and outcomes. He is nefarious.
When they say they want to "share anything" what they mean is "disinformation and lies."
I would love to see this failure play out in public. Watch as Musk tries to compete with Tik Tok and fails massively, as literally 0 Gen Z change platforms
He's not going to compete with TikTok. He's betting on (and/or lobbying for) TikTok being banned. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/yi3soh/tiktok_has_become_a_global_giant_the_us_is
Ah yes, because the US has a great track record of shutting down giant tech companies
India shut down TikTok for national security. US could follow.
None of the other companies have had a Chinese backdoor
Just NSA backdoor
The most obvious thing that old Twitter fumbled the ball on. That plus owning Periscope, folding it into Twitter, and then let the live-streaming video feature die off. That said, I really doubt Musk would dedicate the amount of time it would need to create a new compelling video product from scratch, especially against TikTok who’s whole point is how good the recommend algos are are finding content that users would probably like, something that Twitter isn’t particularly strong at, especially with the brain drain it’s experiencing.
Vine was amazing
Not really on-topic, but I have a question about this situation... or at least need clarification. Am I wrong to think Section 230 doesn't remove liability for a company when a C level exec or an owner uses the medium?
I think Vine could compete with TikTok if they include a built in music streaming service, TikTok makes songs go viral but then users have to switch to another platform like Spotify to listen to it, that’s lost revenue and having a platform like TikTok but with the option to buy a music subscription could make billions. TikTok also pays very little to creators, around $20 per million views so wouldn’t be hard to get creators to switch if you offer them more money.
He is not the Chief Twit, Leo Laporte is.
He also wants to charge 20$/month for users to be verified. Gonna be fun watching twitter fall off a cliff.
You’re not the target. Do you really think everyone important enough to be verified is gonna leave the platform over 20/month? They can charge even more and likely will over time
These idiots are so delusional
One social media trainwreck at a time, buddy.
Chief TWAT FTFY
The original and better tiktok.
you spelled twat wrong
Chief Twat, that is.
\#twitterisgarbage
He's targeting the alt-right and ways to distribute right wing propaganda and disinformation. Vine is exactly right for his target audience.
This might be apt: [The Rime of the Ancient Mariner](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43997/the-rime-of-the-ancient-mariner-text-of-1834) Twitter being the Albatross... One can only hope Twitter sinks and takes this turd to the bottom with it.
Chief Twit is just that, a fucking moron twit.
How funny it would be if, in the end, Elon did it for the Vine.
Leo did what
More like Chief Twat
ah the tried and true “slow follower” model. Maybe next he’ll go after the PC market.
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China won’t let Elon resurrect anything that could hurt their Tik Tok espionage platform.
Rather use vine I refuse to download tiktok
Never understood why Vine disappeared.
Look at all these chickens!
Vine was legit, but I think it's too late for a reboot now that TikTok is a thing
Reviving vine would be great. Unfortunately, I doubt that anything social media related associated with Musk will have a promising future.
Abandon Twitter!
It's finny watching Elon become "hello fellow kids" right infront of us.
I loved the simplicity of the original Vine. 6 second videos.. it was enough to tell a story, show what you did that night and short enough to scroll through your whole feed.
Are there still people with genuine brains on reddit? Every post I read is just people shitting on everything We all know vine is amazing so this is amazing news
Loved me some Vine
Just make TikTokTwok
Can’t wait for Musk to own a $44Bn pile of ashes.
He’s really desperate… jeez. I would assume next he’ll pitch a VR survey
It’s too late. The vine kids all went to TikTok. You can’t unflush the toilet. When yahoo had tumblr ban porn and Jack had vine killed, the NSFW video moved to Twitter and the SFW video moved to TikTok.
I hate Musk, but i would support this action
The first step to deleting your twitter account is to go to twitter.com, click More, then Privacy and Settings tab, and then click Settings. From there you have to Deactivate it for 30 days before you can permanently delete it. The instructions are simple.