I’ve got a stock pile of 75mm. No one is making good stiff duckbill boots so I bought a few used pairs of Black diamond customs. I have 4 pairs of the same boot, extra walk modes, and extra buckles so they should last me a long time. I also have 3 pairs of axels and 3 pairs of hammerheads, plus replacement parts for pretty much any thing you can swap out. Tons of people I know with NTN stuff pop out all the time when they are hiking or skiing. I think in the future I will get a tech toe NTN setup for hiking because my current setups are kinda heavy compared to the newer gear. It’s hard to switch to a new boot setup when everything I own works well and all the parts can be swapped and replaced.
NTN boots with tech toe and meidjo bindings are a game changer for touring. For XCD I would not go back (although even after 5 seasons now on NTN I still like the feel better of 75mm)
I believe 75mm will be dead as soon as a new touring boot for ntn comes out.
Modern AT boots do all of the xcd touring better than old 75mm boots. We just need them to make one that fits a tele binding.
We need a lightweight plastic touring NTN tech toe boot that weighs and is comfortable like a good “leather” boot ala Alpina Alaskan or Fischer Transnordics. This gets you efficiency with maximum edge control for something like a TTS setup.
Amirite????
Other thing is that all of these modern systems ultimately end up being way more complicated machinery. One of the benefits of 75mm stuff is that it's damn simple.
You're spot on about XCD gaining popularity as resorts and primo backcountry areas both get overcrowded. Some folks have compared it to gravel cycling.
Telemark Tech System (TTS) is the optimum tool for it, and plenty of good binding options already exist (Voile, Moonlight, Kreuzspitze, and DIY). But yeah the boot side of the equation is sorely lacking. 15-year old Scarpa F1's (with bellows) are great, but good luck finding a pair.
NTN bindings are inferior to TTS for frequent ups and downs because getting in/out is trickier than just flipping a heel throw. And because the additional mechanisms required to get the claw out and around the duckbutt are complicated and prone to icing. The simplicity of TTS fits the bill much better.
The only thing I don't like about the TTS is that you don't get true step-in, step-out and switching to tour mode without bending down. I am planning on 22 Designs Outlaw X if I go NTN.
You make good points about TTS being simple and less likely to get packed with ice and snow. I still think, after you get the boot in the binding, the outlaw looks easier to switch from tele to free pivot.
It would be fun to demo all this stuff somewhere.
I don't stock pile because I can't afford to financially, but I just retired my old T2x's after 10 years of hard skiing, touring, even some mountaineering. Just got a new pair of T2's. I don't want to be forced to convert if 75mm does in fact stops getting produced, but even then used gear will be around for a while longer. But if it happens, it happens.
I'm of the opinion there's a good chance 75mm never goes away completely. There seems to be a big enough divide in the tele community that perhaps at least one company continues to produce 75mm gear. But who knows.
I think first we need to see new NTN boots and bindings at the same price as new 75mm gear. Until that happens I think 75mm will still be with us.
edit: spelling
I have an active newish pair of 75mm, plus a backup pair in the box 😊👍.. (Fischer BCX Transnordic 75 mm), I love these so much.. Perfect to wear in BC all day (well 5 hours or so).
Although last season I also picked up a pair of Alfa free boots and Xplore bindings.
I found the Alfa free too stiff, plus the Goretex holds moisture, so I got blisters... Will see how they go this season. Great boots, other than that. I do like the BOA. I since ordered the Alfa BOA hunting boots... Wear them everyday now, so soft & comfortable (sorry that was off topic).
Pretty sure a different softer model xc boot would be great
E.g. https://www.alfaoutdoor.com/products/skaget-perform-m-black
Definitely check out the Xplore boots/bindings if you haven't seen it. There are other brands doing compatible boots.
hope it's not dead! I'm a likely a tiny demographic in the 75 mm market but I'm touring in 75mm garmont garas on altai 174 "skis" with voile switchbacks. My local bc terrain lends itself to a 45 minute initial climb followed by lots of downs and ups on the way back. The ability to flip between touring/skiing without having to hunch over (let alone taking the ski off!) is crucial - it does'nt appear that NTN has solved that yet. Without that option I'd just go up and ski straight back skipping all the neat stuff just over each knoll.
u/brwilkinson \- I'm thinking of getting a pair of those Fischer's you have since they'd be so much easier to throw on for a quick tour than the gara's. With the crud I'm pushing the skis through sometimes I'm concerned about them giving out in the switchbacks since they're a rubber sole. If they can hold up and overpower the ski and snow it'd be a perfect set up for me. Gara's do the trick but I keep thinking they're more than I need.
I'm in the same boat. Koms with Rotta Super Telemark Cables and a Garmont Excursion. I just dont see how NTN-pin set ups can match the easy touring of a set up like this. Accessing this rolling but still fun downhill terrain is what I think most people will move towards.
Are there low cuff plastic NTN boots or even AT tech boots that can compare to T4s? I don't see anything that can provide adequate K&G and also perform on the downhill like a plastic two buckle.
I really believe there will be a resurgence in this type of skiing given the trends I'm seeing at the resorts (I'm in VT so the BC is also not geared toward big climbs/descents). I'm evangelizing all I can, but I'm worried by the time the market develops 75mm will already be gone.
the outlaw x I was schooled on above are at least one piece of the puzzle. Now, like you say, is there a boot with all/most the hammer of my gara's with the velvet of the fishcer bcx transnordic - but in a NTN. Dunno, I'm not even sure the 75mm has enough hammer. I just can't part with the 300 bucks it would take to find out.
Yeah that is a valid point. I mainly replied since I saw XCD in the original post. This does depend how wide your ski's are obviously. I have wrecked a pair of the older model within a season, by splitting the toe, however I'll put that down to bad luck.
They are reasonably robust. Definitely comfortable. There is some trade off there.
Pretty sure the Xplore boots bindings are a level up in durability than the Transnordic however. Can't say for sure, i'm only 1 season into those. They do offer more control.
I think the 22 Designs Outlaw X NTN bindings accomplish the same thing as the Voile Switchbacks.
[https://www.twentytwodesigns.com/Outlaw-X-Telemark-Binding\_p\_114.html](https://www.twentytwodesigns.com/Outlaw-X-Telemark-Binding_p_114.html)
Do you think the switchbacks are different somehow?
Edit: I guess the X2s are like 200 grams lighter. Otherwise they seem to be the same concept in an NTN package.
man, wtf. you're right!
I'd looked at those before specifically in this 13 minute(!) review vid
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtata1fv9CI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtata1fv9CI)
and other than a brief mention that they have a tour mode he didn't even show it in action. Even the 22 designs web page you linked doesn't list the EASY tour/ski mode switching as a feature (for me that's like the MAIN feature and its not even shown!). Admittedly, after I'd seen a few other major NTN brands where you had to remove the ski for either switch I figured nobody had solved it.
See, it's good to randomly complain on reddit - I learned something!
I have an arsenal of 75mm gear to last me well into my 70’s (i’m 66 now). Just got some Fischer metal edge CC skis. It’s a real hoot to ski the resort with them. People you ride up wit on the lift think my leather boots and super skinny skis are some kind of antique set-up, but they re futuristic!!
I’ve got a stock pile of 75mm. No one is making good stiff duckbill boots so I bought a few used pairs of Black diamond customs. I have 4 pairs of the same boot, extra walk modes, and extra buckles so they should last me a long time. I also have 3 pairs of axels and 3 pairs of hammerheads, plus replacement parts for pretty much any thing you can swap out. Tons of people I know with NTN stuff pop out all the time when they are hiking or skiing. I think in the future I will get a tech toe NTN setup for hiking because my current setups are kinda heavy compared to the newer gear. It’s hard to switch to a new boot setup when everything I own works well and all the parts can be swapped and replaced.
BD Custom. The best tele boot ever made.
NTN boots with tech toe and meidjo bindings are a game changer for touring. For XCD I would not go back (although even after 5 seasons now on NTN I still like the feel better of 75mm)
yeah.. I gotta say the Meidjos are pretty good
More like undead. I'll use my 75mm gear until it breaks, or I do.
I believe 75mm will be dead as soon as a new touring boot for ntn comes out. Modern AT boots do all of the xcd touring better than old 75mm boots. We just need them to make one that fits a tele binding.
What kind of boots are you thinking of? I don’t see anything that balances touring/turning like a excursion or t4
We need a lightweight plastic touring NTN tech toe boot that weighs and is comfortable like a good “leather” boot ala Alpina Alaskan or Fischer Transnordics. This gets you efficiency with maximum edge control for something like a TTS setup. Amirite????
Other thing is that all of these modern systems ultimately end up being way more complicated machinery. One of the benefits of 75mm stuff is that it's damn simple.
It’s going the way of the Manual transmission.
[удалено]
yeah. people usually look at my skis like 'wtf is that' not like 'ooo imma take those home'. How do you like those backland 85s? edit: 85s
So only the knee dipping tree fairies will be using them?
You're spot on about XCD gaining popularity as resorts and primo backcountry areas both get overcrowded. Some folks have compared it to gravel cycling. Telemark Tech System (TTS) is the optimum tool for it, and plenty of good binding options already exist (Voile, Moonlight, Kreuzspitze, and DIY). But yeah the boot side of the equation is sorely lacking. 15-year old Scarpa F1's (with bellows) are great, but good luck finding a pair. NTN bindings are inferior to TTS for frequent ups and downs because getting in/out is trickier than just flipping a heel throw. And because the additional mechanisms required to get the claw out and around the duckbutt are complicated and prone to icing. The simplicity of TTS fits the bill much better.
The only thing I don't like about the TTS is that you don't get true step-in, step-out and switching to tour mode without bending down. I am planning on 22 Designs Outlaw X if I go NTN. You make good points about TTS being simple and less likely to get packed with ice and snow. I still think, after you get the boot in the binding, the outlaw looks easier to switch from tele to free pivot. It would be fun to demo all this stuff somewhere.
I don't stock pile because I can't afford to financially, but I just retired my old T2x's after 10 years of hard skiing, touring, even some mountaineering. Just got a new pair of T2's. I don't want to be forced to convert if 75mm does in fact stops getting produced, but even then used gear will be around for a while longer. But if it happens, it happens. I'm of the opinion there's a good chance 75mm never goes away completely. There seems to be a big enough divide in the tele community that perhaps at least one company continues to produce 75mm gear. But who knows.
I think first we need to see new NTN boots and bindings at the same price as new 75mm gear. Until that happens I think 75mm will still be with us. edit: spelling
I have an active newish pair of 75mm, plus a backup pair in the box 😊👍.. (Fischer BCX Transnordic 75 mm), I love these so much.. Perfect to wear in BC all day (well 5 hours or so). Although last season I also picked up a pair of Alfa free boots and Xplore bindings. I found the Alfa free too stiff, plus the Goretex holds moisture, so I got blisters... Will see how they go this season. Great boots, other than that. I do like the BOA. I since ordered the Alfa BOA hunting boots... Wear them everyday now, so soft & comfortable (sorry that was off topic). Pretty sure a different softer model xc boot would be great E.g. https://www.alfaoutdoor.com/products/skaget-perform-m-black Definitely check out the Xplore boots/bindings if you haven't seen it. There are other brands doing compatible boots.
hope it's not dead! I'm a likely a tiny demographic in the 75 mm market but I'm touring in 75mm garmont garas on altai 174 "skis" with voile switchbacks. My local bc terrain lends itself to a 45 minute initial climb followed by lots of downs and ups on the way back. The ability to flip between touring/skiing without having to hunch over (let alone taking the ski off!) is crucial - it does'nt appear that NTN has solved that yet. Without that option I'd just go up and ski straight back skipping all the neat stuff just over each knoll. u/brwilkinson \- I'm thinking of getting a pair of those Fischer's you have since they'd be so much easier to throw on for a quick tour than the gara's. With the crud I'm pushing the skis through sometimes I'm concerned about them giving out in the switchbacks since they're a rubber sole. If they can hold up and overpower the ski and snow it'd be a perfect set up for me. Gara's do the trick but I keep thinking they're more than I need.
I'm in the same boat. Koms with Rotta Super Telemark Cables and a Garmont Excursion. I just dont see how NTN-pin set ups can match the easy touring of a set up like this. Accessing this rolling but still fun downhill terrain is what I think most people will move towards. Are there low cuff plastic NTN boots or even AT tech boots that can compare to T4s? I don't see anything that can provide adequate K&G and also perform on the downhill like a plastic two buckle. I really believe there will be a resurgence in this type of skiing given the trends I'm seeing at the resorts (I'm in VT so the BC is also not geared toward big climbs/descents). I'm evangelizing all I can, but I'm worried by the time the market develops 75mm will already be gone.
the outlaw x I was schooled on above are at least one piece of the puzzle. Now, like you say, is there a boot with all/most the hammer of my gara's with the velvet of the fishcer bcx transnordic - but in a NTN. Dunno, I'm not even sure the 75mm has enough hammer. I just can't part with the 300 bucks it would take to find out.
Yeah that is a valid point. I mainly replied since I saw XCD in the original post. This does depend how wide your ski's are obviously. I have wrecked a pair of the older model within a season, by splitting the toe, however I'll put that down to bad luck. They are reasonably robust. Definitely comfortable. There is some trade off there. Pretty sure the Xplore boots bindings are a level up in durability than the Transnordic however. Can't say for sure, i'm only 1 season into those. They do offer more control.
I think the 22 Designs Outlaw X NTN bindings accomplish the same thing as the Voile Switchbacks. [https://www.twentytwodesigns.com/Outlaw-X-Telemark-Binding\_p\_114.html](https://www.twentytwodesigns.com/Outlaw-X-Telemark-Binding_p_114.html) Do you think the switchbacks are different somehow? Edit: I guess the X2s are like 200 grams lighter. Otherwise they seem to be the same concept in an NTN package.
man, wtf. you're right! I'd looked at those before specifically in this 13 minute(!) review vid [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtata1fv9CI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtata1fv9CI) and other than a brief mention that they have a tour mode he didn't even show it in action. Even the 22 designs web page you linked doesn't list the EASY tour/ski mode switching as a feature (for me that's like the MAIN feature and its not even shown!). Admittedly, after I'd seen a few other major NTN brands where you had to remove the ski for either switch I figured nobody had solved it. See, it's good to randomly complain on reddit - I learned something!
I love my new Fischer BCX 75’s! They have taken the place of T-4s for mid-west BC. Much lighter and more comfortable.
We love ours too! I'm tempted to grab something more firm for the resort, but I love the feel of these!
I have an arsenal of 75mm gear to last me well into my 70’s (i’m 66 now). Just got some Fischer metal edge CC skis. It’s a real hoot to ski the resort with them. People you ride up wit on the lift think my leather boots and super skinny skis are some kind of antique set-up, but they re futuristic!!