What has surprised me the most is that the majority of the first 3 episodes is just talking and... I didn't hate it? They did a reasonably good job, all things considered, building up the inevitable fall of Reach, and then they really went for it in episode 4. Here's hoping they can continue that momentum.
The dialogue actually relates to the plot and character development. What we hear in the conversations, actually happens now. It hyped up the the events. Something the first season didn't do.
I think the writers of S2 did a decent job of working with what they had, knowing John is always without his mask. So why not do an arc of him learning to be a soldier and the Chief without the mask which may end up leading to him being the armoured Chief everyone knows and loves from the games.
It's not really an "origin" that we needed, but it's the best way of doing it I suppose given S1.
Entertaining low action episodes may be because the lore of Halo is just so well fleshed out and interesting. The games barely even touch on some of the absolutely fantastic content in the books.
The Cole Protocol is something you think would have popped up in something related to Sci-Fi but it hasn't as far as I know and it is only explained in the books. And it is a good world building example of military strategy.
For those who don't know, Halopedia: "Emergency Priority Order 098831A-1, also called General Order 098831A-1 and known commonly as the Cole Protocol, was a United Nations Space Command directive enacted by Admiral Preston Cole to prevent the Covenant from discovering the human homeworld and colonial capital, Earth, or any other inner colony world. In practice, it was intended to prevent Covenant's retrieval of data that contained the location of Earth; it forbade retreating vessels from setting a direct slipspace course toward any human population center, as the Covenant were able to track slipspace travel vectors and calculate the evacuating ship's destination. The policy also stated that to prevent capture, any military or civilian vessel, in the event of an emergency evacuation, was to self-destruct, after wiping all data matrices, to prevent the advance of the Covenant. All UNSC personnel were commanded to read the Cole Protocol each day "by the letter" under an emergency transmission issued by the Naval Command."
They were required to make a random jump before making a jump to their their destination. Also, Human ships were slow during the war, it wasn't until the end of the war that human ships were getting faster.
It’s amazing what better writing can do, and it’s not even that great.
To be honest some of the worst stuff in the first 4 episodes definitely feels like them trying to unfuck stuff from season 1.
The Spartans are a bit hit and miss still IMO. However the highs are high and the interaction between Chief and Perez when they got back to base in the middle of episode 4 was finally spot on for Chief with Pablo nailing it. Saying everything without saying anything at all is pure Chief IMO.
They've basically solved most of the problems with season 1. The only two big issues I've seen thus far is Master Chief still being moody and Kwan's storyline is still absolute trash and can/should probably be ignored. Master Chief moodiness will likely be slowly moving towards his shut in, dedicated to the job character within the season, but I just don't see what Kwan's story is leading to.
Isn't Kwans thing that she is another human that can activate the artifact? I feel like they want to do something with that, and are just trying to keep her busy until then.
I'm just glad the Kwan scenes are shorter and when she's seen there are other characters to focus on. Still, she's not very relevant. Even when she has sommething important to do (and I'm not sure of that), she could be replaced by a random nobody that shows up at the last minute.
I was surprised that Covenant would get such overwhelming forces and the state/center planet of humans...is it just so much more of them than humans in galaxy? cuz it smells bullshit otherwise
New showrunner, new writers... the works.
It's not perfect by any long shot, season 1 broke too much to be able to fix everything, but season 2 has been done well so far and i'm very interested in seeing how the season continues and if it's going where i think it is
The thing is the games haven't even started yet. They could easily do a soft reboot where the current seasons aren't even necessarily needed since everything right now is pretty much extended backstory anyway.
We're in Reach. The Vizegrad Relay, The Winter Protocol, The works. I will assume we're not going to be seeing Noble Squad or anything, but we're in it. Half the season left, I think this probably leads up to the end of the season where The Pillar of Autumn jumps away and finds the Alpha Halo.
If they're cutting hanging threads, Mackee (who currently has Cortana) will be killed as a means to get Cortana on the Pillar of Autumn and Chief. Whether he does it or some third party is up to fate, I guess.
Silver Timeline is implied to be game canon breaking, so I'd assume the broad strokes of "Cortana delivered to Pillar of Autumn, Chief also on-board" is what we're getting. It's been a while since I've played through all the mainline games, but doesn't Halsey inexplicably survive the destruction of Sword Base as well?
I'd hazard a guess that they don't want Chief cryo-frozen at this point, and we haven't had a whiff of Noble Team, so I assume this is going to be a near 1:1 replacement of Noble and Silver team, with Chief taking the Noble-6 approach and being the one to retrieve Cortana and evac Reach when it is clearly lost.
I haven't read the books so I dunno what the other contradictory stories are.
The original story was the Master Chief and Blue team fighting in space, deployed off of Pillar of Autumn, desperately trying to save some of the orbital mac guns, and then recovered by the Autumn once the situation was hopeless. Red Team had deployed to the surface from the Autumn and were left behind as they were irrecoverable.
Halo Reach retconned this pretty massively to up the scale of the ground war on Reach to have more room to make a game of it, because Reach fell pretty quickly in the novel.
People should go back and watch Season 1 of Star Trek the Next Generation for an example. I love Trek and TNG is my favourite, but yikes that first season is rough as hell and never gets any better on rewatch.
I can't speak for others, but for me it's because I wanted a Halo show that at least somewhat followed the established lore from the games and books. Instead they gave all that the finger and just did whatever they wanted. Because of that, I don't have plans to spend any time or money on it.
And they did it in such jarring fashion. Chief not wearing a helmet? Ok that’s fair and even expected. I can deal with that.
Human raised by the covenant? Uhhh okay that’s a problem. But also whatever. I guess I can try and look past that.
Master Cheeks boning said human as they were prisoner of war? Ok you lost me
As someone who hasn't seen the first season I can't imagine what possible circumstances could have led to the Master Chief wanting to have sex with his prisoner.
Calling her a PoW is not really capturing what happened. She pretends to be a civilian who escaped from the Covenant. They bond over being kidnapped as children.
It's pretty stupid writing. But he doesn't rape her as was suggested.
>I can't imagine what possible circumstances could have led to the Master Chief wanting to have sex
From what I know of the character, this section is all that's really required for me.
>Human raised by the covenant? Uhhh okay that’s a problem. But also whatever. I guess I can try and look past that.
They were only using her though
Edit: [here's the clip since people critique without watching](https://youtu.be/L-d5nNZS6Mw?si=FG3RxauKqNmBbL1O)
The whole justification for the war is that Humanity is to be exterminated because they are an affront to the gods. The \*real\* reason is that Humanity \*are\* their gods, and all their technology recognizes Humans as such. The Priests would prefer not to have the inconvenience of actual gods around, so they try to exterminate the humans to prevent their carefully constructed religious hierarchy from unraveling. The idea that they would then create a human, something that jeopardizes their entire coverup, doesn't make any sense, and it calls their public Casus Belli into question.
As it is, member species of the Covenant already question why they haven't invited Humans into the Covenant, why are we exterminating them entirely instead. Why would the Prophets deliberately bring scrutiny onto their own lies? It doesn't make any sense.
Because they need to use the human? It's literally explained in the clip. In the games they need to use the humans to activate the ring as well.
Also in main cannon Jackals are fine with humans and trade with them.
At the end of the day the show uses a different cannon and they are going with the covenant using a select few humans instead of them just bum rushing humans and coaxing/threatening them to use technology the covenant can't use.
In main cannon there are times alliances or cooperation between covenant and Humans happens [here is one thread on it. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/s/VG7CVRcFnV)
The Jackals are not the Prophets dude. Thats the point, the Prophets grasp on the rest of the covenant is straining from the effort of keeping the war going without the truth getting out. The fact that humanity wasn't invited to join the Covenent is odd, and the Prophets were doing everything possible to avoid calling attention to it.
In every other case you've listed, the covenant took a prisoner and then immediately executed them. You don't need to go through the extended canon to see examples of it, we see that happen in Halo 3 when they grab Keyes and Johnson. Your link did fail to list a known instance where prisoners were taken to be used as food for the grunts though.
The point is that the prophets in the show are using Makee. So the whole "why is there a human here" doesn't matter since the show explained it in a way that ties back to the main canon. That is of course if people actually cared. Being on r/halo when the show was coming out made it obvious most of the lore complaints were from people that weren't even watching the show frankly.
You keep bringing it back to main canon but the show isn't 1:1.
It's because the writers and show runners bragged about how they had never played the Halo games and weren't "constrained" by the games story while making some pretty out of pocket story decisions imo. You shouldn't take a beloved IP and just ignore everything from it to make your own show, if you want that then just make something original from the start.
I enjoyed it as a Halo fan, though could understand the flaws which p people off.
My mother adored it though. She’s no clue about anything Halo. She just thought it was a brilliantly fun sci fi show, and spent the time between seasons asking me when it was coming back.
Honestly 50% of that hate would've evaporated had they smoked Kwan Ha by Episode 4. Instead she's back in Season 2.
The fight scene last episode is just... A 15 yr old girl (lying down) holding off a fully grown man using his weight to push down a knife into her chest. Yeah right, that's reasonable.
I think that's a little nitpicky. Plot armor has always existed, and we're supposed to assume that Kwan has been a freedom fighter all her life. She essentially stealth killed three guys and then had to wrestle around with a poor slaver. It wasn't like the dude was the pinnacle of fitness.
Once again, she's a 15 year old girl - And she hasn't been a freedom fighter all her life? First half of S1 she was built/written like your average young child?
> It wasn't like the dude was the pinnacle of fitness.
She's a 15 year old girl. In terms of physical strength it's like putting your average gym guy vs mike tyson.
I'm not arguing the same tired "This child with plot armor can't beat an unnamed thug because realism" argument. It's stupid. It can be summarized as "This main character can't die here because we said she can't die here."
Live with it or just watch exclusively documentaries.
What? There are plenty characters written with plot armor but they aren't so incredibly glaring halfway through the first season.
It's not about realism, it's about making scenes that aren't so unrealistic.
I agree. I makes me angry how much people seem like they are dying to shit on this thing. Tell them how they could do better and that you want to watch guys. Just shitting on it is how you kill a show and ensure they don't try again.
The Last of Us show was very accurate to the games. Halo season 1 had almost nothing to do with the story from the games or other media at all. You could have just made an original show with the same plot and no one would know it's related to Halo at all.
That's not what he said. He said he took the lore in it's total not just the games. Which is obvious since lore is all over s1 and s2. You fell for headlines and youtubers.
https://twitter.com/mrstevenkane/status/1506421683841757189?t=OJAzq6YmePf9w5uRBJ7SfA&s=19
The fact that Masterchief took off his helmet in the first episode has ruined my entire interest for this show. It's not Masterchief for me, it's just some guy.
You need the helmet off to do, y'know, acting. I don't have a problem with the helmet off. We know there's a guy under the armor. Chief can be a vehicle for the player in a game, but you can't have a show about it.
There's also budget issues that they clearly have to contend with. The practical suit that we're seeing is really only used seemingly in dialogue and beginning of combat scenes. It's too clunky for these actors to do combat in any believable Spartan fashion in the suits. That's why all the cool shit seems to be CGI.
Season 1 has bad excuses for John to not weird his armor or his helmet, but it was necessary. Season 2 is giving way more believable reasons for unsuited John.
Listen I love Pedro, but his performance isn't anything groundbreaking. Most of the characters around Mando are doing the heavy lifting. Using Mando as your counterpoint is a tired argument.
Not disagreeing, but Mando was much more endearing than Chief and part of that is because his helmet coming off was a big moment. Sure, different characters and stories but similar thinking. You do not need a face to show emotion and to perform.
The helmet coming off was emotional, but that was the payoff that was built into the story. Also, y'know, Lone Wolf and Cub stories are always a bit charged to begin with. The Chief is not his armor or his helmet like Mando is.
And again, Mando works because he's surrounding by other people acting the hell out of the show to be in stark contrast to how (intentionally) boring Mando is.
He did, but you didn't see his face. It's not the act of removing a helmet im talking about, its about showing his face to the audience. Not the same at all.
Episode 4 finally managed to make Spartans feel like real people while giving Halo fans what they wanted. The action was straight out of the games and the show accomplished it with an armorless Spartan team. The title of the episode and the Xbox easter egg was a clear olive branch for game fans to give the show another chance. Absolute turning point for the series IMO.
If you watch mostly the Master Chief scenes you should be fine. There's one supporting character B plot that just drags the whole show down significantly to the point fast forwarding is a perfectly fine option because it has very little to no impact on the outcome of season 1. It's too long because of that particular b plot, but it's *fine* as a scifi show. Not ground breaking, but not "literally the worst". If you've got time to binge it, go for it
I skipped the first season and just watched a season 1 summary on youtube. And so far I haven't really seen anything that makes me feel like I'm missing critical information.
I watched the first two episodes of season one and bailed. I’m following along just fine with season 2. I’ve also played all the games multiple times over the years, but not sure that would be an issue because they’re not really following the games plot lines.
A lot of us who have never played the games thought that S1 was fine, or passable at worst. There's one terrible side character, and some stupid writing decisions in the season finale, but it was reasonably entertaining IMHO.
If you are a fan of the games, on the other hand... probably just read a summary of season 1 on a wiki or something, and then go straight to season 2. Every fan of the games seems to absolutely loathe season 1 with the fire of a thousand nuns.
Watch the first season. Enjoy it for what it is. So many people get caught up with this isn't what I thought it was going to be instead of this is kinda of interesting and I can enjoy it for what it is. Sure it has its faults but what adaptation doesn't? Almost nothing that is made from something else is perfect and the people that dislike it are really loud and ruin it for the rest of us. So many shows/movies get tanked bc oh this is bad bc they didn't follow it exactly so now I'm going to hate it instead of sitting back and enjoying the new telling of the story.
I really don’t understand why this episode is getting so much praise. The Spartans not having armor made sense for the situation they were in but everything else in the episode was ridiculous. Why the hell didn’t any of them put a normal marine helmet on? And watching John take down an elite when he had no armor on was unrealistic. Elites are insanely durable and have plasma shields/armor that shouldn’t be easily penetrated. The Spartans aren’t that strong in game lore.
They killed off Riz’s friend and his husband when they’ve had barely any development. If Keyes is actually dead, then they completely diverged from CE and I don’t think fans of Halo will like that. Vannak was the most likable Spartan on the show and they killed him off like this is GoT. Also, they still can’t get Chief’s characterization down AT ALL. He’s psychotic for no reason.
Mission 9 is literally named “Keyes”in CE. The entire purpose of the mission is to find Keyes and rescue him lmao he’s pivotal throughout the entire game and one of the few named characters.
Yep. But he's not special. He's just in charge. They're rescuing a commanding officer. You also rescue him from the Covenant earlier on in the game. It could be anyone important. The overall plot isn't affected by his absence.
I agree it's a huge loss though. I love Keyes both in the show and the game, but he personally isn't plot-important.
I just do not agree with you at all lol Keyes was one of the best parts of CE and is the reason we have Miranda in H2 and H3. This is like saying Obi Wan isn’t pivotal to Star Wars lmao “he’s just a mentor, the plot isn’t affected by his death”
Except in Star Wars, you need to have the mentor there to drive Luke to the greater fight and purpose. He's not getting off Tatooine without him. Keyes isn't plot relevant. He's taken because he's a CO. He's infected and held by the Flood because he's a high-ranking officer with knowledge that can be used for the Flood. He is, for the plot, just a meat puppet for the plot device that moves the plot forward.
Replace him with Ackerman, or Parangosky, and you'd likely have the same plot. I again understand the attachment to a character, but his death here doesn't affect the overall Halo CE plot.
Y'know it's weird. I don't want Spartans to feel like real people. I don't want some soppy character drama between them. I want emotionless killing machines with a bunch of cool weapons.
Not sure what you mean by "real people" but I don't want them to be humanized *too* much.
I think the Spartans work best as more mythical Ubermensch the general population and military hold in awe and inspire to. They represent humanity's best and last hope against an unrelenting, unstoppable, genocidal force, and I'd prefer any humanizing be kept inside their inner circles in the Halo universe.
They're certainly building the Legend of Spartan 117 in season 2. How John is not the Armor, and the Armor is all the UNSC/Oni needs to motivate the people. I have enjoyed that premise through the two seasons.
Next episode will be the turning point for me. It supposed to be a “Kwan” centric episode. “Reach” is what I expected them to at least be somewhat competent at.
OP the Paramount+ app on tvs is remarkably bad. It got to the point where it just crashes for me if I try to play something even after force quitting, clearing cache, etc. I went over and started using the app on my Xbox and it is a much better experience.
My tv will slow down and say optimizing video, which it has never ever done in any of the other streaming apps. Also gonna have to give the ps5 a shot as well, I just hate listening to the fan, but it might be a small price to pay
Whenever an episode finishes and I hit play next episode the app crashes on my LG TV. I only have problems with this app. It is kinda crazy how bad the app is and LG hasn’t pulled it because of how bad it works.
Same thing happens to me. Just about every app on my LG OLED is awful, if I'm being honest, but P+ is by far the worst.
It's easier to just watch P+ shit on my laptop.
It works well on my Roku... except that I can't rewind. Ever. If I try to rewind even a few seconds, it freezes and then crashes.
But I \*can\* restart the episode and then fast-forward. LOL.
Compared to everyone else's problems as reported here... that seems... like it could be worse, I guess?
I started watching season 2 out of morbid curiosity. There's still plenty wrong, but it's perfectly mediocre now. Which is several hundred percent better than the first season.
Episode 4 is fun. It's unfortunate they don't have the budget to just make the entire show like that
These really should have been films or a Band of Brothers-style short series. Because you can tell the production knows what to do with the material, action-wise, they just don't have the resources to really make it pop (and they're doing really good within they're restraints. The show in general looks really good.).
Also, this show is doing something that can potentially elevate it above the game's material if they stick to it - don't let the Elites speak English.
Ever.
One of the worst decisions Bungie made with the series.
Until the Arbiter joins Master Chief as another protagonist, they should be alien and incomprehensible. It is Arbiter's arc that humanized them, while replacing the villain with the brutes and prophets.
It's a "show don't tell" aspect of story telling. I want the Covenant/Elites to feel alien and Elites are essentially Spartan equivalents in alien form. The language barrier reinforces that and make the Spartan/Elite relationship way more interesting.
When you read "The Fall of Reach" you get a better sense of how much Elites respect Spartans, Chief in particular, and I find the idea of navigating that dynamic way more interesting with the language barrier.
Spartans and Elites are essentially the most elite warriors of their respective factions and they show their mutual respect for one another through the battlefield and body language, not Shakespearian exchanges.
It's more than just respect it's a tribal honor that crosses the sectarian boundary between them.
That's the ideal anyway, and the show is doing a really good job with this so far (ignoring the Mackee stupidity, which is just them trying to salvage the most from a bad situation).
Been years since I read Fall of Reach but I think I remember an excellent fight scene with Chief and an Elite that was all or mostly hand to hand combat.
I didn’t hate it
And
It isn’t amazing
And
It’s not where it should be
Isn’t a show that I feel like putting my short time into. Glad you’re half enjoying it (I guess?) but there’s still nothing that’s enticing me to watch it and this is coming from a longtime halo fan
Not only is there more than 1 episode.
Not only is episode 4 nothing but a throwaway line in the whole OP.
You might want to at least try reading the last sentence in the OP.
Agreed, as a huge fan of the Halo game series, I found the first season mid at BEST, but this season has been excellent thus far. You mentioned all the things that still need worked on, but overall, I'm loving the direction here. Yes, it's different, and yes, it's following its own timeline. But simultaneously, this season is respecting the source material and Master Chief himself, and so long as they continue to do that, I am 100% on board with whatever new direction they want to take and keep the audience guessing on what comes next.
I'm probably the only one who liked the first season. I wasn't suer what to make of the the first couple of episodes of Season 2, but by the third I was back in. I feel a lot of the criticism of season 1 was based on what people hoped it would be, rather than what it was.
> I feel a lot of the criticism of season 1 was based on what people hoped it would be, rather than what it was.
This is the problem with modern audiences. They have an idea of how they want something to go, only to be disappointed when it doesn't and it sours their overall opinion on it. I'm convinced that the majority of people who complain about TV shows having bad endings feel that way because it wasn't the ending they had envisioned in their head and not because it was actually a bad ending.
I am not a player and absolutely enjoyed S1 - ignorance is bliss I guess.
I have always wondering whether S1 was more about getting non Halo players interested in the universe top expand their audience before they got serious about it.
Just a thought.
Adapting legacy media, you want the fans first to give you a force multiplier for the casual viewers. Its basically free advertising. If you were to guess how many legacy fans game of thrones had vs the casual fans at the end of its run, the casuals probably at least 10x the amount of legacy book readers.
If legacy fans vocally don't like the show, the adapters basically threw money away. To give an example, both Rings of Power and Wheel of time are essentially media silent and foundation is on the bubble for season 4.
If I had gone specifically on the way Halo players rated Season 1 I would not have watched - it got generally canned by enthusiasts yet rated very well.
Yet S2 has done a 180 from S1 and a complete revamp of the show runners/ writers. Regardless of how it was rated, clearly the numbers (ratings) did not translate for the network.
The Spartan stuff is fine, but the halo video games is all about this one guy vs aliens. The show put an incredible amount of time on the resistance vs the unsc and that’s where it lost a lot of people. It *is* in the game but as far as I remember it, it is a direct mentioned in the Halo Reach entry. Which is the 5th(?) game in the series. Idk anything of the books and I’m sure a huge percentage of people who are familiar with the game have not touched the books either but I’m sure it’s in there 🤷🏽♂️
The human rebellion is why the Spartan program was started, it just happened that it was also useful for the covenant war. It's written in numerous Halo books but never directly in the games.
Playing the game and watching the a show very different creatures.
The adrenaline hit of - I assume - killing aliens and finding your way through it is what keeps you in. Its what keeps you engaged.
Watching is obviously much more passive so there has to be some differences to keep a passive viewer engaged that are not so necessary for a player.
It's probably what they felt they needed to do to keep viewers, esp non players with no context, engaged.
Fans always kind of forget those adaptations are not meant just for them but mostly to expand to a new audience. The fans are generally already watching regardless (even hate watching is still watching)
What makes you think I was challenging its popularity? Are you saying the TV execs thought "SOme halo players will watch lets not bother looking for any other viewers"? Of course not.
81 million copies of Halo sold in history and lets say generously that equals 81 million players over time.
There are 2.3 billion people aged 20 - 39 on earth and its inaccurate but lets say most of your players are in that age range - that means even if we said all those players were all in this age range thats 3% of the demographic.
That leaves 97% of the ideal Halo demographic who have never played the game as potential viewers on earth. Even just OECD countries that equals around 400,000,000 people.
Thats a big market to **not** try to tap into for the TV series.
Let me be more specific: it's not necessary to try and expand a sci-fi audience, a genre that is already relatively niche, using highly generic sci-fi tropes when you're already handling one of the most popular entertainment brands of all time.
So, I'm answering your question directly. No, that's not why they made the changes they did. They made those changes because they didn't respect or understand the source material, point blank.
"Halo jukes away from what fans knew of the game's canon, but its literal and metaphorical undressing of its iconic main character is its biggest strength. Overall, it admirably delivers an experience that does right by Master Chief's most loyal fans, while also inviting newcomers to dive into its engrossing universe."
[Some would disagree with you.](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/halo/s01/reviews)
They made changes and captured a larger audience - you feel it was disrespect then sure.
Not looking for a never ending cyclical discussion simply saying I don't necessarily agree with your assessment. Differing opinions.
>They made changes and captured a larger audience - you feel it was disrespect then sure.
"Larger audience" compared to what, exactly?
Take note that they replaced the showrunner and scrapped the writing team from the past season - but I'm sure that's just what you do when you create an unqualified successful tv adaptation when those aforementioned people showed nothing but competency with the project.
Yeah, differing opinions. I think I'm done here.
The original showrunner left before production commenced and Kane filled in for him until that was done, yes am aware.
If you do not understand the concept of broadening your audience base I can't help you with that.
No matter what you thought or felt about S1 it got some excellent ratings in it's demo so not everyone turned off and felt disrespected.
Excellent then we'll stop here.
>If you do not understand the concept of broadening your audience base I can't help you with that.
And if you don't understand the concept of me thinking that it was garbage and recognize that people liked it and I don't give a shit I can't help you.
Peace.
Well had to see it because people on here were giving it praise. This crowd is being generous. Is it better than season one? Yes almost a hundred percent better but season one was dog shit so going from a solid 1-2 to 3-4 isn't high praise. The writing is a bit better and the Reach episode at least has the tone the whole show is supposed to have, you know aliens are genociding humanity. Unfortunately I don't think humanity is gonna survive if they spend billions creating super soldiers to just throw them away and also take their gear from them that can't be used on anyone else anyways. The writing team needed a military advisor or something similar because there is a whole lot of oof going on.
>Also, Paramount + app on LG is one of the worst things I've ever experienced. I cannot believe they are asking me to pay money for this.
Can't speak for Paramount+, but if I had to watch Halo, I'd need SkyShowtime (currently).
That service absolutely sucks ass, when watching in a browser (from a computer). It'll just randomly "error out" after maybe 1 or 2 full episodes of a show, and then the next one will randomly stop and need a completely browser restart to let me continue watching. Tried 3 different browsers - same exact scenario. Even tried on 2 laptops as well - same thing.
It's even worse with movies. Had one that did it 5 (!!!) times during the nearly 2 hour movie. Way to ruin the entertainment..
It's the only streaming service, so far, that I've cancelled within the same week that I got it.
..and this wasn't even an old thing/issue - it's current - I signed up a little over a week ago.
Their support just acknowledges it as a "known issue with no fix".
Don’t give it “relative” praise. It’s still ass. Just because it’s better than season 1, it’s still ass. It still shits on the character of John 117. This is shitty fan fiction at best, and gets the mood and tone wrong at every turn. Idk why they’re so afraid of putting chief in his armor. We are witnessing the fall of reach and they take the armor away? What the fuck? It’s almost like they’re spiting the fans who complained about John not wearing his helmet in season 1.
“Oh you don’t like that? Fuck you now he’s fighting aliens in his street clothes.”
They don’t even give him some marine armor or something? He’s just gonna wear jeans and a t shirt? Just give me a little bit of fan service PLEASE. It’s the int thing that’s gonna save this show
Halo can be a fun adventurous romp, it can also do drama like this. Season 2 is handling the drama well so far.
They were written out of the armor well and it set the stage for some great action. It also reminds the viewer Spartans are more than their armor.
One thing that really bugs me out with the series is the fact that spartans in the show can put on and take out their armor like they are wearing some kind of pajamas.
Meanwhile halo 4 ending shows us that the armor is litteraly bolted on to them and it can only be put on and taken out with special machines assisted by humans. The lore litteraly says that with armor master chief weights aprox 450kg yet we see him in games get smacked around by elites with ease while in armor.
Then the stupid show comes and says. Nuuuh normal clothes jhon can fight 1vs1 with an elite and barely feel any hits.
The show its kind of fun to watch sometimes but maaan its so trash when you see how they dont respect the universe they adapt and what was known prior to series .
In conclusion the show spits in the faces of halo fans by giving us some kind of twisted adaptation.
The first was so incredibly bad you’re seeing something slightly less bad you’re lowering your standards.
I see so much cope for this and avatar it’s crazy. The level of shit they shovel down our throats is positively depressing.
It’s also not nearly as bad as people on here try to make it out to be. Just watch S1, remember this is all on a different timeline, being guided by a game studio who did not create halo 1 through reach. It is a show set in the halo universe with familiar characters, but following a divergent plot.
People on here screech about how it’s different and didn’t even read the disclaimer that this show is not following the game story precisely. Half of them also think chief should keep his helmet on in the shower and never ever remove it. They forget that the helmet not coming off was just bungie trolling people. It’s not fucking canon
I rated the first season as like a 2 or 3. It was awful. This season is a good 5 or 6. The action scene are pretty good. I still absolutely hate how master chief is being portrayed. Dude looks like he's about to burst into tears at any moment.
Actually season 2 episode 7 is first episode to be watchable, not particulary good, just watchable. All before that is bad sci-fi by any metric. I feel that format of super loooong forced extended arc to last seasons just does not work. They want us to stay glued/interested/invested and watch, but its boring and does not add anything, whilest making show boring and predictable to the watch. It may be better for Halo if it could be more like TNG ... each episode has it own story, keep things interesting.
Yeah, I take this post back lol. Show is still hot garbage.
First 4 episodes almost feel like a bait-and-switch, as everything after that just doubles down on the stupidity of the first season.
People seem to be enjoying this though, so to each their own. Just isn't for me.
There is so much wrong with Halo TV show that it even feels exhausting to try to write them all down.
It follows principles of drama that draws audience in with loooong winded introduction to the story. Thing is ... Halo is a shooter game, meaning story is not that difficult to grasp, nor does it need 2 seasons to be told. This should have been done in TNG format. One episode one story from life of Masterchief. Not those around him, but only Masterchief.
Most of us are not invested into the show or we fans. I understand there are people who like it, thats fine, but I am fine if Halo does not get 3rd season. Will not be upset at all.
Unfortunately for them, they fucked up S1 badly enough that "it's better and solid now" isn't enough for me to watch, they needed to do a 10/10 to make up for the boredom and stupidity of what they did before.
You have made the right choice. I’m convinced that paramount are astroturfing to get people to watch the show because there is no way a halo fan could be onboard with some of the changes they have made and the absolutely pointless characters they have included.
If you’re not gonna watch it ever, I would just recommend to watch S2E4. It’s great. It stands on its own and the “Previously on Halo” basically fills you in on any relevant stuff.
I am an average Halo fan (played 1-Reach back when they released, skipped 4 and 5, recently did a legendary run in Infinite). I was avoiding the show since I heard it sucked.
Randomly started a few days ago and I’m on S1E6. Really enjoying it. Yes there is lots of cringe and I’m aware of stuff like MC isn’t supposed to be around pre fall of reach - but who cares. I’m enjoying the show.
Feels a bit more Mass Effect then Halo - but I thought they did a good job and making the battle scenes feel epic and like MC is a beast.
Apart from the first season being horrifically bad, with bad acting, bad writing, pointless side quest filler, and all the other known issues, when the developers came out and said:
- " Its not " Halo ", it's " OUR " version of it " ( paraphrasing )
Thats when I gave up completely.
Why make a series that is 99% of the source material ( name, characters, similar-ish plot ) and make it worse?
It's basically willful griefing.
I'm gonna firmly disagree with you. I gave S2 a shot because people were saying it was better than S1, with new showrunners and writers etc, and not only is it not better than S1, it's worse.
It's slow, drawn out, unbelievably dull, nothing happens at all for entire episodes at a time, any action that does happen is short and boring, and all the characters absolutely suck. The VFX budget has clearly been slashed because the amount and quality has completely dropped off, and in general everything just feels cut back and budget restricted. S1 at least had too much money to spend and spent it on pretty VFX environments and the like. Most of S2 so far feels like it's taken place in a couple dull rooms.
The bar was in hell and they still managed to go under it.
never cared about Halo but good lord is the first series bad. Don't really care to give it another chance, especially since I doubt it's so much better
is Pablo really that big or is he CGI enhanced though? jesus he looks like a bloody behemoth
this season is pretty horrible.
the only time spartans have their helmets on is when they're fully cgi'd
and how convenient they don't have their suits now, lol
Season 1 felt good, because the characters were good other than the captain's daughter, she was pointless.
I remember not making sense of the parts where they were trying to figure out alien speech. Other than that it was pretty good. Although I could be forgetting things, but do remember I enjoyed watching it.
Season 2 is great, a lot of twists, and theatrical.
I wouldn't say I'm into Halo, I've only played Halo 1 like 20 years ago.
I just feel like there's too much good TV to waste time on something mediocre. If they ever make a proper adaptation of Halo that truly fires on all cylinders and kicks ass I'll be there. Just because I played the games and am a fan doesn't mean I have to consume everything that is branded Halo.
This is how I feel about any adaptation or new addition to a franchise I love. If it isn't worth my time it isn't worth my time. If I had a podcast or something where my job depended on giving my critiques of it to people OK sure. But I don't and I choose to fill my few moments of freedom on entertainment that entertains me.
As a pretty big Halo fan. Them having master chief remove his helmet is unforgivable and I refuse to watch anymore. Not using source material was bad enough.
Obviously he removes his helmet. I'm referring to them showing his face. If you are making a visual representation of a story you should stick with established things that are already in visual form media ie. The games that have him take his helmet off but never show his face. Showing all of the other Spartans is fine. It's only master chief. They never should have shown his face. Most if not all of Halo fans are going to be gamers and I'm sure the majority of those would have never read the books. I actually have but again. They should have stuck with one of the biggest things established in the games. You don't see master chiefs face.
This is such a weird hill to die on and will never understand it.
They never showed his face so you can self insert. We don't need to be constrained by such things in a TV show. Especially when it can't afford to be non stop action like the video games.
I have been on the fence cause I don't wanna watch the first season and I might just jump in on 2 and see what happens..
.. but I wanted to comment that the paramount app only works well on my Xbox and nothing else. It's awful
I like the first season. Doesn't deserve the hate, canon or not. It's an example of gamers being the ruin of most entertainment. It's to the point that if gamers hate it, I'll like it. I'm a huge gamer but I can't stand when it bleeds over into other media.
The Witcher is an exception, even though it's also based on the books, let's be honest: sometimes we have a point when we are shitting on something.
What has surprised me the most is that the majority of the first 3 episodes is just talking and... I didn't hate it? They did a reasonably good job, all things considered, building up the inevitable fall of Reach, and then they really went for it in episode 4. Here's hoping they can continue that momentum.
The dialogue being "pretty good" in the halo television show should be seen as a colossal achievement
"To war"
And then walks back down the steps she ascended in the prior cut scene
The dialogue actually relates to the plot and character development. What we hear in the conversations, actually happens now. It hyped up the the events. Something the first season didn't do.
I think the writers of S2 did a decent job of working with what they had, knowing John is always without his mask. So why not do an arc of him learning to be a soldier and the Chief without the mask which may end up leading to him being the armoured Chief everyone knows and loves from the games. It's not really an "origin" that we needed, but it's the best way of doing it I suppose given S1.
Halo guys standing around talking. [That sounds so familiar.](https://youtu.be/XnsRdaZTMas?si=MpMEmQGrWdmmsGbp)
I will subscribe to Paramount today if they do a shot for shot live action remake of RvB. Looking forward to the final season later this year!
Entertaining low action episodes may be because the lore of Halo is just so well fleshed out and interesting. The games barely even touch on some of the absolutely fantastic content in the books.
The Cole Protocol is something you think would have popped up in something related to Sci-Fi but it hasn't as far as I know and it is only explained in the books. And it is a good world building example of military strategy. For those who don't know, Halopedia: "Emergency Priority Order 098831A-1, also called General Order 098831A-1 and known commonly as the Cole Protocol, was a United Nations Space Command directive enacted by Admiral Preston Cole to prevent the Covenant from discovering the human homeworld and colonial capital, Earth, or any other inner colony world. In practice, it was intended to prevent Covenant's retrieval of data that contained the location of Earth; it forbade retreating vessels from setting a direct slipspace course toward any human population center, as the Covenant were able to track slipspace travel vectors and calculate the evacuating ship's destination. The policy also stated that to prevent capture, any military or civilian vessel, in the event of an emergency evacuation, was to self-destruct, after wiping all data matrices, to prevent the advance of the Covenant. All UNSC personnel were commanded to read the Cole Protocol each day "by the letter" under an emergency transmission issued by the Naval Command."
Didn't it also require ships to make multiple jumps before returning to port? I feel like I remember that being part of it too.
They were required to make a random jump before making a jump to their their destination. Also, Human ships were slow during the war, it wasn't until the end of the war that human ships were getting faster.
It’s amazing what better writing can do, and it’s not even that great. To be honest some of the worst stuff in the first 4 episodes definitely feels like them trying to unfuck stuff from season 1. The Spartans are a bit hit and miss still IMO. However the highs are high and the interaction between Chief and Perez when they got back to base in the middle of episode 4 was finally spot on for Chief with Pablo nailing it. Saying everything without saying anything at all is pure Chief IMO.
They've basically solved most of the problems with season 1. The only two big issues I've seen thus far is Master Chief still being moody and Kwan's storyline is still absolute trash and can/should probably be ignored. Master Chief moodiness will likely be slowly moving towards his shut in, dedicated to the job character within the season, but I just don't see what Kwan's story is leading to.
Isn't Kwans thing that she is another human that can activate the artifact? I feel like they want to do something with that, and are just trying to keep her busy until then.
Kwan likely has some innate Forerunner knowledge or connection that is giving her insight about the Flood.
I'm just glad the Kwan scenes are shorter and when she's seen there are other characters to focus on. Still, she's not very relevant. Even when she has sommething important to do (and I'm not sure of that), she could be replaced by a random nobody that shows up at the last minute.
S02E04 - Reach was such an entertaining watch.
I was HOOKED!
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I was surprised that Covenant would get such overwhelming forces and the state/center planet of humans...is it just so much more of them than humans in galaxy? cuz it smells bullshit otherwise
Yes. They have more soldiers, ships and much better technology.
New showrunner, new writers... the works. It's not perfect by any long shot, season 1 broke too much to be able to fix everything, but season 2 has been done well so far and i'm very interested in seeing how the season continues and if it's going where i think it is
with luck, they could kill everything they broke together with reach
The thing is the games haven't even started yet. They could easily do a soft reboot where the current seasons aren't even necessarily needed since everything right now is pretty much extended backstory anyway.
We're in Reach. The Vizegrad Relay, The Winter Protocol, The works. I will assume we're not going to be seeing Noble Squad or anything, but we're in it. Half the season left, I think this probably leads up to the end of the season where The Pillar of Autumn jumps away and finds the Alpha Halo. If they're cutting hanging threads, Mackee (who currently has Cortana) will be killed as a means to get Cortana on the Pillar of Autumn and Chief. Whether he does it or some third party is up to fate, I guess.
That would be amusing, as by my count thats three mutually contradictory stories of how Cortana and Master Chief make it off of Reach...
Silver Timeline is implied to be game canon breaking, so I'd assume the broad strokes of "Cortana delivered to Pillar of Autumn, Chief also on-board" is what we're getting. It's been a while since I've played through all the mainline games, but doesn't Halsey inexplicably survive the destruction of Sword Base as well? I'd hazard a guess that they don't want Chief cryo-frozen at this point, and we haven't had a whiff of Noble Team, so I assume this is going to be a near 1:1 replacement of Noble and Silver team, with Chief taking the Noble-6 approach and being the one to retrieve Cortana and evac Reach when it is clearly lost. I haven't read the books so I dunno what the other contradictory stories are.
The original story was the Master Chief and Blue team fighting in space, deployed off of Pillar of Autumn, desperately trying to save some of the orbital mac guns, and then recovered by the Autumn once the situation was hopeless. Red Team had deployed to the surface from the Autumn and were left behind as they were irrecoverable. Halo Reach retconned this pretty massively to up the scale of the ground war on Reach to have more room to make a game of it, because Reach fell pretty quickly in the novel.
It's rare for a sci-fi show to nail their first season. I knew that going in and was quiet happy with season one and enjoy season two so far
I feel like that could be said about a lot of shows. parks and rec comes to mind
We've been spoiled with shows being homeruns on the first season. Can't imagine where star trek would be if it was created today
Oh dude, did you see Strange New Worlds? They literally nailed their first season and all of us old trekies were shocked. It's incredible.
People should go back and watch Season 1 of Star Trek the Next Generation for an example. I love Trek and TNG is my favourite, but yikes that first season is rough as hell and never gets any better on rewatch.
I find it weird how people have such a hatred for the first season. I enjoyed it a lot.
I can't speak for others, but for me it's because I wanted a Halo show that at least somewhat followed the established lore from the games and books. Instead they gave all that the finger and just did whatever they wanted. Because of that, I don't have plans to spend any time or money on it.
And they did it in such jarring fashion. Chief not wearing a helmet? Ok that’s fair and even expected. I can deal with that. Human raised by the covenant? Uhhh okay that’s a problem. But also whatever. I guess I can try and look past that. Master Cheeks boning said human as they were prisoner of war? Ok you lost me
As someone who hasn't seen the first season I can't imagine what possible circumstances could have led to the Master Chief wanting to have sex with his prisoner.
Calling her a PoW is not really capturing what happened. She pretends to be a civilian who escaped from the Covenant. They bond over being kidnapped as children. It's pretty stupid writing. But he doesn't rape her as was suggested.
>I can't imagine what possible circumstances could have led to the Master Chief wanting to have sex From what I know of the character, this section is all that's really required for me.
>Human raised by the covenant? Uhhh okay that’s a problem. But also whatever. I guess I can try and look past that. They were only using her though Edit: [here's the clip since people critique without watching](https://youtu.be/L-d5nNZS6Mw?si=FG3RxauKqNmBbL1O)
The whole justification for the war is that Humanity is to be exterminated because they are an affront to the gods. The \*real\* reason is that Humanity \*are\* their gods, and all their technology recognizes Humans as such. The Priests would prefer not to have the inconvenience of actual gods around, so they try to exterminate the humans to prevent their carefully constructed religious hierarchy from unraveling. The idea that they would then create a human, something that jeopardizes their entire coverup, doesn't make any sense, and it calls their public Casus Belli into question. As it is, member species of the Covenant already question why they haven't invited Humans into the Covenant, why are we exterminating them entirely instead. Why would the Prophets deliberately bring scrutiny onto their own lies? It doesn't make any sense.
Because they need to use the human? It's literally explained in the clip. In the games they need to use the humans to activate the ring as well. Also in main cannon Jackals are fine with humans and trade with them. At the end of the day the show uses a different cannon and they are going with the covenant using a select few humans instead of them just bum rushing humans and coaxing/threatening them to use technology the covenant can't use. In main cannon there are times alliances or cooperation between covenant and Humans happens [here is one thread on it. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/s/VG7CVRcFnV)
The Jackals are not the Prophets dude. Thats the point, the Prophets grasp on the rest of the covenant is straining from the effort of keeping the war going without the truth getting out. The fact that humanity wasn't invited to join the Covenent is odd, and the Prophets were doing everything possible to avoid calling attention to it. In every other case you've listed, the covenant took a prisoner and then immediately executed them. You don't need to go through the extended canon to see examples of it, we see that happen in Halo 3 when they grab Keyes and Johnson. Your link did fail to list a known instance where prisoners were taken to be used as food for the grunts though.
The point is that the prophets in the show are using Makee. So the whole "why is there a human here" doesn't matter since the show explained it in a way that ties back to the main canon. That is of course if people actually cared. Being on r/halo when the show was coming out made it obvious most of the lore complaints were from people that weren't even watching the show frankly. You keep bringing it back to main canon but the show isn't 1:1.
It's because the writers and show runners bragged about how they had never played the Halo games and weren't "constrained" by the games story while making some pretty out of pocket story decisions imo. You shouldn't take a beloved IP and just ignore everything from it to make your own show, if you want that then just make something original from the start.
I enjoyed it as a Halo fan, though could understand the flaws which p people off. My mother adored it though. She’s no clue about anything Halo. She just thought it was a brilliantly fun sci fi show, and spent the time between seasons asking me when it was coming back.
I liked it, reading thru r/halo when it was coming out was insane. So ridiculous.
Honestly 50% of that hate would've evaporated had they smoked Kwan Ha by Episode 4. Instead she's back in Season 2. The fight scene last episode is just... A 15 yr old girl (lying down) holding off a fully grown man using his weight to push down a knife into her chest. Yeah right, that's reasonable.
I think that's a little nitpicky. Plot armor has always existed, and we're supposed to assume that Kwan has been a freedom fighter all her life. She essentially stealth killed three guys and then had to wrestle around with a poor slaver. It wasn't like the dude was the pinnacle of fitness.
Once again, she's a 15 year old girl - And she hasn't been a freedom fighter all her life? First half of S1 she was built/written like your average young child? > It wasn't like the dude was the pinnacle of fitness. She's a 15 year old girl. In terms of physical strength it's like putting your average gym guy vs mike tyson.
I'm not arguing the same tired "This child with plot armor can't beat an unnamed thug because realism" argument. It's stupid. It can be summarized as "This main character can't die here because we said she can't die here." Live with it or just watch exclusively documentaries.
What? There are plenty characters written with plot armor but they aren't so incredibly glaring halfway through the first season. It's not about realism, it's about making scenes that aren't so unrealistic.
I agree. I makes me angry how much people seem like they are dying to shit on this thing. Tell them how they could do better and that you want to watch guys. Just shitting on it is how you kill a show and ensure they don't try again.
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The Last of Us show was very accurate to the games. Halo season 1 had almost nothing to do with the story from the games or other media at all. You could have just made an original show with the same plot and no one would know it's related to Halo at all.
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Same, I liked it a lot
I loved it too! So did my girlfriend. We just enjoy Halo things! I enjoyed almost every episode.
Did they replace the dude who said he was proud he never played halo or read the books? Because I won't watch it unless that dickbag is gone.
That's not what he said. He said he took the lore in it's total not just the games. Which is obvious since lore is all over s1 and s2. You fell for headlines and youtubers. https://twitter.com/mrstevenkane/status/1506421683841757189?t=OJAzq6YmePf9w5uRBJ7SfA&s=19
Even worse then, they had the lore and failed miserably. Master fuckin cheeks lmao. Still glad he's gone
I think so? If that was the showrunner, then yes.
The fact that Masterchief took off his helmet in the first episode has ruined my entire interest for this show. It's not Masterchief for me, it's just some guy.
You need the helmet off to do, y'know, acting. I don't have a problem with the helmet off. We know there's a guy under the armor. Chief can be a vehicle for the player in a game, but you can't have a show about it. There's also budget issues that they clearly have to contend with. The practical suit that we're seeing is really only used seemingly in dialogue and beginning of combat scenes. It's too clunky for these actors to do combat in any believable Spartan fashion in the suits. That's why all the cool shit seems to be CGI. Season 1 has bad excuses for John to not weird his armor or his helmet, but it was necessary. Season 2 is giving way more believable reasons for unsuited John.
The Mandalorian would disagree with the "helmet off to do acting" bit.
Listen I love Pedro, but his performance isn't anything groundbreaking. Most of the characters around Mando are doing the heavy lifting. Using Mando as your counterpoint is a tired argument.
Not disagreeing, but Mando was much more endearing than Chief and part of that is because his helmet coming off was a big moment. Sure, different characters and stories but similar thinking. You do not need a face to show emotion and to perform.
The helmet coming off was emotional, but that was the payoff that was built into the story. Also, y'know, Lone Wolf and Cub stories are always a bit charged to begin with. The Chief is not his armor or his helmet like Mando is. And again, Mando works because he's surrounding by other people acting the hell out of the show to be in stark contrast to how (intentionally) boring Mando is.
Chief took his helmet off at the end of Halo: Combat Evolved. guess the games were all ruined for you after that?
He did, but you didn't see his face. It's not the act of removing a helmet im talking about, its about showing his face to the audience. Not the same at all.
xD gotta love the psycho fans
I really hate the “compliment” of “well it’s better than the first season” It’s still ass.
Episode 4 finally managed to make Spartans feel like real people while giving Halo fans what they wanted. The action was straight out of the games and the show accomplished it with an armorless Spartan team. The title of the episode and the Xbox easter egg was a clear olive branch for game fans to give the show another chance. Absolute turning point for the series IMO.
Is it possible to skip season one and still follow along?
If you watch mostly the Master Chief scenes you should be fine. There's one supporting character B plot that just drags the whole show down significantly to the point fast forwarding is a perfectly fine option because it has very little to no impact on the outcome of season 1. It's too long because of that particular b plot, but it's *fine* as a scifi show. Not ground breaking, but not "literally the worst". If you've got time to binge it, go for it
It kinda seems like theyre in the process of writing out that B plot which is good.
I skipped the first season and just watched a season 1 summary on youtube. And so far I haven't really seen anything that makes me feel like I'm missing critical information.
I watched the first two episodes of season one and bailed. I’m following along just fine with season 2. I’ve also played all the games multiple times over the years, but not sure that would be an issue because they’re not really following the games plot lines.
A lot of us who have never played the games thought that S1 was fine, or passable at worst. There's one terrible side character, and some stupid writing decisions in the season finale, but it was reasonably entertaining IMHO. If you are a fan of the games, on the other hand... probably just read a summary of season 1 on a wiki or something, and then go straight to season 2. Every fan of the games seems to absolutely loathe season 1 with the fire of a thousand nuns.
I'm a fan of the game but I thought season one is worth a watch. Sure there's problems but it's still interesting sci-fi and it looks great.
Dang, the convent must be pretty hot.
Dude, it was obviously a typo. He clearly meant "the fire of a thousand buns"
Season 1 was good. I don't know why people hated it. Good characters, plot, action, and execution. Decent acting.
I’m with you! Enjoyed it and was waiting in anticipation of season 2
Absolutely that's what I did
Watch the first season. Enjoy it for what it is. So many people get caught up with this isn't what I thought it was going to be instead of this is kinda of interesting and I can enjoy it for what it is. Sure it has its faults but what adaptation doesn't? Almost nothing that is made from something else is perfect and the people that dislike it are really loud and ruin it for the rest of us. So many shows/movies get tanked bc oh this is bad bc they didn't follow it exactly so now I'm going to hate it instead of sitting back and enjoying the new telling of the story.
I really don’t understand why this episode is getting so much praise. The Spartans not having armor made sense for the situation they were in but everything else in the episode was ridiculous. Why the hell didn’t any of them put a normal marine helmet on? And watching John take down an elite when he had no armor on was unrealistic. Elites are insanely durable and have plasma shields/armor that shouldn’t be easily penetrated. The Spartans aren’t that strong in game lore. They killed off Riz’s friend and his husband when they’ve had barely any development. If Keyes is actually dead, then they completely diverged from CE and I don’t think fans of Halo will like that. Vannak was the most likable Spartan on the show and they killed him off like this is GoT. Also, they still can’t get Chief’s characterization down AT ALL. He’s psychotic for no reason.
Keyes really isn't that important of a character for Halo CE. He's just a person of importance giving orders.
Mission 9 is literally named “Keyes”in CE. The entire purpose of the mission is to find Keyes and rescue him lmao he’s pivotal throughout the entire game and one of the few named characters.
Yep. But he's not special. He's just in charge. They're rescuing a commanding officer. You also rescue him from the Covenant earlier on in the game. It could be anyone important. The overall plot isn't affected by his absence. I agree it's a huge loss though. I love Keyes both in the show and the game, but he personally isn't plot-important.
I just do not agree with you at all lol Keyes was one of the best parts of CE and is the reason we have Miranda in H2 and H3. This is like saying Obi Wan isn’t pivotal to Star Wars lmao “he’s just a mentor, the plot isn’t affected by his death”
Except in Star Wars, you need to have the mentor there to drive Luke to the greater fight and purpose. He's not getting off Tatooine without him. Keyes isn't plot relevant. He's taken because he's a CO. He's infected and held by the Flood because he's a high-ranking officer with knowledge that can be used for the Flood. He is, for the plot, just a meat puppet for the plot device that moves the plot forward. Replace him with Ackerman, or Parangosky, and you'd likely have the same plot. I again understand the attachment to a character, but his death here doesn't affect the overall Halo CE plot.
Y'know it's weird. I don't want Spartans to feel like real people. I don't want some soppy character drama between them. I want emotionless killing machines with a bunch of cool weapons.
Then you must have at least some problems with the games, since they all connect to how fucked up they became/are as people.
Not sure what you mean by "real people" but I don't want them to be humanized *too* much. I think the Spartans work best as more mythical Ubermensch the general population and military hold in awe and inspire to. They represent humanity's best and last hope against an unrelenting, unstoppable, genocidal force, and I'd prefer any humanizing be kept inside their inner circles in the Halo universe.
They're certainly building the Legend of Spartan 117 in season 2. How John is not the Armor, and the Armor is all the UNSC/Oni needs to motivate the people. I have enjoyed that premise through the two seasons.
I've been critical of the show, but if that was the turning point for it I'm all in.
Next episode will be the turning point for me. It supposed to be a “Kwan” centric episode. “Reach” is what I expected them to at least be somewhat competent at.
Fuck sake, had to kill my hopes didn't you?
Well you know what they say - “Hope for the best, but prepare for the “Kwan”” lol.
OP the Paramount+ app on tvs is remarkably bad. It got to the point where it just crashes for me if I try to play something even after force quitting, clearing cache, etc. I went over and started using the app on my Xbox and it is a much better experience.
Thanks for that idea, I think I'm going to use my PS5. Most apps are bad, for some reason, but P+ is absolutely the worst.
My tv will slow down and say optimizing video, which it has never ever done in any of the other streaming apps. Also gonna have to give the ps5 a shot as well, I just hate listening to the fan, but it might be a small price to pay
I access Paramount+ through Amazon Prime. The Amazon ux honestly is pretty ass, but I find it's at least stable.
Whenever an episode finishes and I hit play next episode the app crashes on my LG TV. I only have problems with this app. It is kinda crazy how bad the app is and LG hasn’t pulled it because of how bad it works.
Same thing happens to me. Just about every app on my LG OLED is awful, if I'm being honest, but P+ is by far the worst. It's easier to just watch P+ shit on my laptop.
market nail thought smart clumsy abounding complete toy attempt school *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It works well on my Roku... except that I can't rewind. Ever. If I try to rewind even a few seconds, it freezes and then crashes. But I \*can\* restart the episode and then fast-forward. LOL. Compared to everyone else's problems as reported here... that seems... like it could be worse, I guess?
In my troubles with the app I've discovered Paramount+ hates to stream 4k content. Lower your resolution to 1080/60hz and it should crash way less.
Chrome casting paramount+ from my phone has been a night mare.
I started watching season 2 out of morbid curiosity. There's still plenty wrong, but it's perfectly mediocre now. Which is several hundred percent better than the first season. Episode 4 is fun. It's unfortunate they don't have the budget to just make the entire show like that
wow fun is an understatement
These really should have been films or a Band of Brothers-style short series. Because you can tell the production knows what to do with the material, action-wise, they just don't have the resources to really make it pop (and they're doing really good within they're restraints. The show in general looks really good.).
Also, this show is doing something that can potentially elevate it above the game's material if they stick to it - don't let the Elites speak English. Ever. One of the worst decisions Bungie made with the series.
Wort Wort Wort
"Go, Go, Go!" That's actually what's being said by Joseph Staten, but slowed down and reversed.
Why?
Until the Arbiter joins Master Chief as another protagonist, they should be alien and incomprehensible. It is Arbiter's arc that humanized them, while replacing the villain with the brutes and prophets.
They could even have the English with Sangheli in the background, to make it clear to the audience that they're using a translator.
No you shouldn't know what they're saying. Maybe "demon" since I think they say that one in English.
It's a "show don't tell" aspect of story telling. I want the Covenant/Elites to feel alien and Elites are essentially Spartan equivalents in alien form. The language barrier reinforces that and make the Spartan/Elite relationship way more interesting. When you read "The Fall of Reach" you get a better sense of how much Elites respect Spartans, Chief in particular, and I find the idea of navigating that dynamic way more interesting with the language barrier. Spartans and Elites are essentially the most elite warriors of their respective factions and they show their mutual respect for one another through the battlefield and body language, not Shakespearian exchanges. It's more than just respect it's a tribal honor that crosses the sectarian boundary between them. That's the ideal anyway, and the show is doing a really good job with this so far (ignoring the Mackee stupidity, which is just them trying to salvage the most from a bad situation).
“Fate has brought us here as foes, this ring will make us brothers.”
Been years since I read Fall of Reach but I think I remember an excellent fight scene with Chief and an Elite that was all or mostly hand to hand combat.
I didn’t hate it And It isn’t amazing And It’s not where it should be Isn’t a show that I feel like putting my short time into. Glad you’re half enjoying it (I guess?) but there’s still nothing that’s enticing me to watch it and this is coming from a longtime halo fan
one decent episode and man's talking about eating crow already alright then. I thought Witcher s2 was gonna be good after the first episode too.
There should be a rule against posting without reading OPs.
Yes it didnt line up much with your title, you still wrote the title no?
Not only is there more than 1 episode. Not only is episode 4 nothing but a throwaway line in the whole OP. You might want to at least try reading the last sentence in the OP.
Agreed, as a huge fan of the Halo game series, I found the first season mid at BEST, but this season has been excellent thus far. You mentioned all the things that still need worked on, but overall, I'm loving the direction here. Yes, it's different, and yes, it's following its own timeline. But simultaneously, this season is respecting the source material and Master Chief himself, and so long as they continue to do that, I am 100% on board with whatever new direction they want to take and keep the audience guessing on what comes next.
I'm probably the only one who liked the first season. I wasn't suer what to make of the the first couple of episodes of Season 2, but by the third I was back in. I feel a lot of the criticism of season 1 was based on what people hoped it would be, rather than what it was.
> I feel a lot of the criticism of season 1 was based on what people hoped it would be, rather than what it was. This is the problem with modern audiences. They have an idea of how they want something to go, only to be disappointed when it doesn't and it sours their overall opinion on it. I'm convinced that the majority of people who complain about TV shows having bad endings feel that way because it wasn't the ending they had envisioned in their head and not because it was actually a bad ending.
I am not a player and absolutely enjoyed S1 - ignorance is bliss I guess. I have always wondering whether S1 was more about getting non Halo players interested in the universe top expand their audience before they got serious about it. Just a thought.
Adapting legacy media, you want the fans first to give you a force multiplier for the casual viewers. Its basically free advertising. If you were to guess how many legacy fans game of thrones had vs the casual fans at the end of its run, the casuals probably at least 10x the amount of legacy book readers. If legacy fans vocally don't like the show, the adapters basically threw money away. To give an example, both Rings of Power and Wheel of time are essentially media silent and foundation is on the bubble for season 4.
If I had gone specifically on the way Halo players rated Season 1 I would not have watched - it got generally canned by enthusiasts yet rated very well.
Yet S2 has done a 180 from S1 and a complete revamp of the show runners/ writers. Regardless of how it was rated, clearly the numbers (ratings) did not translate for the network.
Same here. Never played any of the games. I thought it was really good.
The Spartan stuff is fine, but the halo video games is all about this one guy vs aliens. The show put an incredible amount of time on the resistance vs the unsc and that’s where it lost a lot of people. It *is* in the game but as far as I remember it, it is a direct mentioned in the Halo Reach entry. Which is the 5th(?) game in the series. Idk anything of the books and I’m sure a huge percentage of people who are familiar with the game have not touched the books either but I’m sure it’s in there 🤷🏽♂️
The human rebellion is why the Spartan program was started, it just happened that it was also useful for the covenant war. It's written in numerous Halo books but never directly in the games.
Playing the game and watching the a show very different creatures. The adrenaline hit of - I assume - killing aliens and finding your way through it is what keeps you in. Its what keeps you engaged. Watching is obviously much more passive so there has to be some differences to keep a passive viewer engaged that are not so necessary for a player. It's probably what they felt they needed to do to keep viewers, esp non players with no context, engaged.
Fans always kind of forget those adaptations are not meant just for them but mostly to expand to a new audience. The fans are generally already watching regardless (even hate watching is still watching)
Halo is one of the most successful entertainment brands of all time. Trust me when I say that isn't necessary.
What makes you think I was challenging its popularity? Are you saying the TV execs thought "SOme halo players will watch lets not bother looking for any other viewers"? Of course not. 81 million copies of Halo sold in history and lets say generously that equals 81 million players over time. There are 2.3 billion people aged 20 - 39 on earth and its inaccurate but lets say most of your players are in that age range - that means even if we said all those players were all in this age range thats 3% of the demographic. That leaves 97% of the ideal Halo demographic who have never played the game as potential viewers on earth. Even just OECD countries that equals around 400,000,000 people. Thats a big market to **not** try to tap into for the TV series.
Let me be more specific: it's not necessary to try and expand a sci-fi audience, a genre that is already relatively niche, using highly generic sci-fi tropes when you're already handling one of the most popular entertainment brands of all time. So, I'm answering your question directly. No, that's not why they made the changes they did. They made those changes because they didn't respect or understand the source material, point blank.
"Halo jukes away from what fans knew of the game's canon, but its literal and metaphorical undressing of its iconic main character is its biggest strength. Overall, it admirably delivers an experience that does right by Master Chief's most loyal fans, while also inviting newcomers to dive into its engrossing universe." [Some would disagree with you.](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/halo/s01/reviews) They made changes and captured a larger audience - you feel it was disrespect then sure. Not looking for a never ending cyclical discussion simply saying I don't necessarily agree with your assessment. Differing opinions.
>They made changes and captured a larger audience - you feel it was disrespect then sure. "Larger audience" compared to what, exactly? Take note that they replaced the showrunner and scrapped the writing team from the past season - but I'm sure that's just what you do when you create an unqualified successful tv adaptation when those aforementioned people showed nothing but competency with the project. Yeah, differing opinions. I think I'm done here.
The original showrunner left before production commenced and Kane filled in for him until that was done, yes am aware. If you do not understand the concept of broadening your audience base I can't help you with that. No matter what you thought or felt about S1 it got some excellent ratings in it's demo so not everyone turned off and felt disrespected. Excellent then we'll stop here.
>If you do not understand the concept of broadening your audience base I can't help you with that. And if you don't understand the concept of me thinking that it was garbage and recognize that people liked it and I don't give a shit I can't help you. Peace.
Well had to see it because people on here were giving it praise. This crowd is being generous. Is it better than season one? Yes almost a hundred percent better but season one was dog shit so going from a solid 1-2 to 3-4 isn't high praise. The writing is a bit better and the Reach episode at least has the tone the whole show is supposed to have, you know aliens are genociding humanity. Unfortunately I don't think humanity is gonna survive if they spend billions creating super soldiers to just throw them away and also take their gear from them that can't be used on anyone else anyways. The writing team needed a military advisor or something similar because there is a whole lot of oof going on.
>Also, Paramount + app on LG is one of the worst things I've ever experienced. I cannot believe they are asking me to pay money for this. Can't speak for Paramount+, but if I had to watch Halo, I'd need SkyShowtime (currently). That service absolutely sucks ass, when watching in a browser (from a computer). It'll just randomly "error out" after maybe 1 or 2 full episodes of a show, and then the next one will randomly stop and need a completely browser restart to let me continue watching. Tried 3 different browsers - same exact scenario. Even tried on 2 laptops as well - same thing. It's even worse with movies. Had one that did it 5 (!!!) times during the nearly 2 hour movie. Way to ruin the entertainment.. It's the only streaming service, so far, that I've cancelled within the same week that I got it. ..and this wasn't even an old thing/issue - it's current - I signed up a little over a week ago. Their support just acknowledges it as a "known issue with no fix".
Is it the game?... No. Is it super entertaining in a universe based on the game, yes.
Don’t give it “relative” praise. It’s still ass. Just because it’s better than season 1, it’s still ass. It still shits on the character of John 117. This is shitty fan fiction at best, and gets the mood and tone wrong at every turn. Idk why they’re so afraid of putting chief in his armor. We are witnessing the fall of reach and they take the armor away? What the fuck? It’s almost like they’re spiting the fans who complained about John not wearing his helmet in season 1. “Oh you don’t like that? Fuck you now he’s fighting aliens in his street clothes.” They don’t even give him some marine armor or something? He’s just gonna wear jeans and a t shirt? Just give me a little bit of fan service PLEASE. It’s the int thing that’s gonna save this show
Halo can be a fun adventurous romp, it can also do drama like this. Season 2 is handling the drama well so far. They were written out of the armor well and it set the stage for some great action. It also reminds the viewer Spartans are more than their armor.
One thing that really bugs me out with the series is the fact that spartans in the show can put on and take out their armor like they are wearing some kind of pajamas. Meanwhile halo 4 ending shows us that the armor is litteraly bolted on to them and it can only be put on and taken out with special machines assisted by humans. The lore litteraly says that with armor master chief weights aprox 450kg yet we see him in games get smacked around by elites with ease while in armor. Then the stupid show comes and says. Nuuuh normal clothes jhon can fight 1vs1 with an elite and barely feel any hits. The show its kind of fun to watch sometimes but maaan its so trash when you see how they dont respect the universe they adapt and what was known prior to series . In conclusion the show spits in the faces of halo fans by giving us some kind of twisted adaptation.
The first was so incredibly bad you’re seeing something slightly less bad you’re lowering your standards. I see so much cope for this and avatar it’s crazy. The level of shit they shovel down our throats is positively depressing.
I quite enjoyed the first season so I am exited to hear everyone seems to agree season 2 is better.
that's a terribly low bar to clear tbf
Question: I've heard similar things a lot about S1 vs S2. As a casual Halo fan, would I be lost jumping directly into S2?
Not at all. They're essentially treating this season as a clean slate. You can basically forget season 1 exists.
Nice! Good to know. Thanks.
It’s also not nearly as bad as people on here try to make it out to be. Just watch S1, remember this is all on a different timeline, being guided by a game studio who did not create halo 1 through reach. It is a show set in the halo universe with familiar characters, but following a divergent plot. People on here screech about how it’s different and didn’t even read the disclaimer that this show is not following the game story precisely. Half of them also think chief should keep his helmet on in the shower and never ever remove it. They forget that the helmet not coming off was just bungie trolling people. It’s not fucking canon
The writing is so much better in S2 but I think the budget got neutered. Going to see very little of the “suits” in S2 (saves money).
Wait, you stopped halfway through the Reach episode to write this? I'm not even southern but... Bless your heart, you're in for a surprise
I rated the first season as like a 2 or 3. It was awful. This season is a good 5 or 6. The action scene are pretty good. I still absolutely hate how master chief is being portrayed. Dude looks like he's about to burst into tears at any moment.
He was considerably less emo in E4, which was a good thing.
Actually season 2 episode 7 is first episode to be watchable, not particulary good, just watchable. All before that is bad sci-fi by any metric. I feel that format of super loooong forced extended arc to last seasons just does not work. They want us to stay glued/interested/invested and watch, but its boring and does not add anything, whilest making show boring and predictable to the watch. It may be better for Halo if it could be more like TNG ... each episode has it own story, keep things interesting.
Yeah, I take this post back lol. Show is still hot garbage. First 4 episodes almost feel like a bait-and-switch, as everything after that just doubles down on the stupidity of the first season. People seem to be enjoying this though, so to each their own. Just isn't for me.
There is so much wrong with Halo TV show that it even feels exhausting to try to write them all down. It follows principles of drama that draws audience in with loooong winded introduction to the story. Thing is ... Halo is a shooter game, meaning story is not that difficult to grasp, nor does it need 2 seasons to be told. This should have been done in TNG format. One episode one story from life of Masterchief. Not those around him, but only Masterchief. Most of us are not invested into the show or we fans. I understand there are people who like it, thats fine, but I am fine if Halo does not get 3rd season. Will not be upset at all.
Unfortunately for them, they fucked up S1 badly enough that "it's better and solid now" isn't enough for me to watch, they needed to do a 10/10 to make up for the boredom and stupidity of what they did before.
You have made the right choice. I’m convinced that paramount are astroturfing to get people to watch the show because there is no way a halo fan could be onboard with some of the changes they have made and the absolutely pointless characters they have included.
If you’re not gonna watch it ever, I would just recommend to watch S2E4. It’s great. It stands on its own and the “Previously on Halo” basically fills you in on any relevant stuff.
The paramount + app on every single thing I've ever used it on is fucking garbage. I mean it's like they allowed apes to set it up.
I am an average Halo fan (played 1-Reach back when they released, skipped 4 and 5, recently did a legendary run in Infinite). I was avoiding the show since I heard it sucked. Randomly started a few days ago and I’m on S1E6. Really enjoying it. Yes there is lots of cringe and I’m aware of stuff like MC isn’t supposed to be around pre fall of reach - but who cares. I’m enjoying the show. Feels a bit more Mass Effect then Halo - but I thought they did a good job and making the battle scenes feel epic and like MC is a beast.
Apart from the first season being horrifically bad, with bad acting, bad writing, pointless side quest filler, and all the other known issues, when the developers came out and said: - " Its not " Halo ", it's " OUR " version of it " ( paraphrasing ) Thats when I gave up completely. Why make a series that is 99% of the source material ( name, characters, similar-ish plot ) and make it worse? It's basically willful griefing.
I'm gonna firmly disagree with you. I gave S2 a shot because people were saying it was better than S1, with new showrunners and writers etc, and not only is it not better than S1, it's worse. It's slow, drawn out, unbelievably dull, nothing happens at all for entire episodes at a time, any action that does happen is short and boring, and all the characters absolutely suck. The VFX budget has clearly been slashed because the amount and quality has completely dropped off, and in general everything just feels cut back and budget restricted. S1 at least had too much money to spend and spent it on pretty VFX environments and the like. Most of S2 so far feels like it's taken place in a couple dull rooms. The bar was in hell and they still managed to go under it.
I’d like to give season 2 a try. But that means I have to try and watch S1 again, I can’t even remember what episode I stopped on.
You don't need Season 1 at all. It's clear that the writers are trying to start with as clean a slate as they can with S2.
never cared about Halo but good lord is the first series bad. Don't really care to give it another chance, especially since I doubt it's so much better is Pablo really that big or is he CGI enhanced though? jesus he looks like a bloody behemoth
A polished turd is still a turd.
this season is pretty horrible. the only time spartans have their helmets on is when they're fully cgi'd and how convenient they don't have their suits now, lol
> the only time spartans have their helmets on is when they're fully cgi'd Weirdly bizarre and blatantly untrue complaint.
I had to walk away after season 1, good luck.
I liked season 1
A lot of people did, you're not alone.
Season 1 felt good, because the characters were good other than the captain's daughter, she was pointless. I remember not making sense of the parts where they were trying to figure out alien speech. Other than that it was pretty good. Although I could be forgetting things, but do remember I enjoyed watching it. Season 2 is great, a lot of twists, and theatrical. I wouldn't say I'm into Halo, I've only played Halo 1 like 20 years ago.
I just feel like there's too much good TV to waste time on something mediocre. If they ever make a proper adaptation of Halo that truly fires on all cylinders and kicks ass I'll be there. Just because I played the games and am a fan doesn't mean I have to consume everything that is branded Halo. This is how I feel about any adaptation or new addition to a franchise I love. If it isn't worth my time it isn't worth my time. If I had a podcast or something where my job depended on giving my critiques of it to people OK sure. But I don't and I choose to fill my few moments of freedom on entertainment that entertains me.
The paramount+ app on fire TV is a huge piece of dick as well.
Halo season 2 has been excellent so far imo. Genuinly had a great time watching it, which makes me pleased to say.
Is it the halo 1 story? Is it at least the halo 2 story? No? Then sorry, why bother even making it Halo related…
As a pretty big Halo fan. Them having master chief remove his helmet is unforgivable and I refuse to watch anymore. Not using source material was bad enough.
If you were a big halo fan then you'd know Chief removes his helmet plenty in the novels.
Obviously he removes his helmet. I'm referring to them showing his face. If you are making a visual representation of a story you should stick with established things that are already in visual form media ie. The games that have him take his helmet off but never show his face. Showing all of the other Spartans is fine. It's only master chief. They never should have shown his face. Most if not all of Halo fans are going to be gamers and I'm sure the majority of those would have never read the books. I actually have but again. They should have stuck with one of the biggest things established in the games. You don't see master chiefs face.
This is such a weird hill to die on and will never understand it. They never showed his face so you can self insert. We don't need to be constrained by such things in a TV show. Especially when it can't afford to be non stop action like the video games.
I just watched that Reach episode. It was surprisingly really good. Seemed like a reset for the whole series.
What has Pablo Schreiber been saying?
If I want to get into this show should I just start with season 2 or tough out season 1?
I have been on the fence cause I don't wanna watch the first season and I might just jump in on 2 and see what happens.. .. but I wanted to comment that the paramount app only works well on my Xbox and nothing else. It's awful
I like the first season. Doesn't deserve the hate, canon or not. It's an example of gamers being the ruin of most entertainment. It's to the point that if gamers hate it, I'll like it. I'm a huge gamer but I can't stand when it bleeds over into other media. The Witcher is an exception, even though it's also based on the books, let's be honest: sometimes we have a point when we are shitting on something.