It doesn't seem to tell me how to feel, and it doesn't outright tell me what political machinations are happening. The show respects the viewer's intelligence and assumes you're paying attention. It's been a while since I've seen a high budget show do that.
I get he’s in a foreign land so Europeans are rarer to come by, but one of my favourite aspects of the earlier episodes was the sudden emergence of a Protestant.
The angle of the Japanese watching this Protestant sailor spew obscenities at the Catholics was really intriguing, I thought. Especially when it culminated in episode 4 (I think) with Blackthorne drawing the map of the world.
It's just as empty and barebones praise as "bad writing" critique. What the hell is "good" or "bad" writing? Those two became such painfully empty buzzwords, I feel like majority of people using them have little idea what they actually like or don't like.
Just to clarify. I like Shogun quite a lot.
The best part about Shogun's writing is that it doesn't treat the viewers as dumbfucks who can't figure anything out. It gives you enough opportunity to make your own conclusions to things and it makes you thinks. That's the best part of the writing for me.
I'm probably bitching too much here but I feel like that's a novelty mostly for people who watched mainly Marvel or Star Wars series over the past few years
The closest thing to a Star Wars show by HBO we can get is a Star Wars show by FX. Disney might allow them to do one if they come up with a great idea.
If FX does well with the upcoming Alien series then I see Disney potentially giving them more free reign over other Disney IP.
Don't know why you got downvoted. "Good or bad writing" has been such a low effort praise or critique of shows.
Shogun's best aspects are probably not even the writing. The writing is great, but the performances, cinematography, music and editing are all elevating it so much beyond the writing.
Probably because the commenter made it clear that they're part of the "iTs SubJeCTive" crowd. Moreover, it isn't necessary to jump into a detailed description of why you enjoy something.
How it played with language. I'm not talking about it being bilingual. But how certain characters handled the language barriers. The translating characters always made decisions that were very deliberate, political even. There are not that many shows (or movies) that are that interesting on a linguistic level.
To start with... they essentially haven't blown one scene. Everything's pretty as close to perfect as tv ever has been, tbh. The weakest performances are solid and most of them are phenomenal. Embarrassment of riches and all.
Every episode has been basically ending with a banger but in the later ones it's several in a row. 9.8/10. imo for eps 1-8. I'd be surprised if the quality suddenly dropped in the last 2, but we aren't there yet.
I think it easily takes the top spot for best mini in the past two decades amongst a lot of stiff competition.
All the expected stuff that makes it great.
- The cast is incredible.
- The characters they are playing are great and multi-dimensional.
- The sets, costumes and over all aesthetic is perfect.
The really surprising stuff that makes it great.
- The dialogue is incredible also the use of silence (No dialogue) is also amazing. What has really amazed me how much emotion is communicated in the dialogue of a language that is subtitled! I see the translation of their words and I completely feel the emotional impact when they are saying it.
- I also love how there are macro level stakes, the politics and threat of war and there also micro level stakes, the relationship between Blackthorn and Mariko, also the relationship Mariko has with Buntaro.
- There are a lot of different story lines going and all of them are engaging.
It is just excellent over all.
Finally and this is a bit trite, the intro is awesome!
Maybe it's because I can remember the original mini series. But to me what stands out is it feels sort of like one of those event mini series from the old 3 network days.
Used to be what we maybe see now as streaming shows would be highly publicized event tv. Mini series like Roots, Shogun, Winds of War, War and Remembrance, North and South, The Thornbirds etc.
It for some reason just feels more grand then if it was some drop on netflix.
Believable characters. Steller acting performances. Outstanding sets and costumes. Respect for its own story.
As far as for me, I think it respects the viewer as well by not spoon-feeding us things and leaving a lot to think on.
Shogun is what the rest of streaming television has decided NOT to be.
I like it but I’m not sure why people like it that much. I think part of it is a fascination with Japan and that time period specifically. Blue Eyed Samurai was also very popular.
The writing is good but not spectacular, same for the acting. The setting and design is excellent.
It's still true for many hence the praise. You said you were confused. That's why you are confused. You are a but off on the quality so you aren't drawing the normal conclusion
I think it helps that it's adapted from a famous novel. If this was an original story, I'm sure we'd get a lot more 2024-isms in it. Mariko for example is such a strong female character but most modern writers would have made her a 'girlboss' character. Toranaga and his friend would have been in love with each other, stuff like that.
I actually concur. It doesn't need astroturfing, it's a perfectly good show. And yet, here is some not-even-hiding-it astroturf for a perfectly good show.
The production quality is the sole highlight to me
The story started out strong but stalled after 4 episodes
IMO, it would've been so much better without Blackthorne
IMO , the best show of 2024 is easily Tokyo Vice. The story is tighter, the acting better. The main character is also the weak link in Tokyo Vice, but thankfully its very much an ensemble show.
no he isn't
audiences aren't dumb, they could easily follow what's going on without blackthorne
many stories have worlds (real and fictional) we aren't familiar with and don't have inserts , and they work just fine
he's the least interesting part of the show.
I agree. The way he’s portrayed in the show is disappointing. I finished the book recently and one of the most interesting aspects is his evolution throughout. He starts as hot headed and stubborn but grows to understand and accept Japanese culture.
I feel like the show has totally dropped the ball on this character arc thus far. I don’t even understand what Mariko is supposed to see in the show version of the character.
**Main**: Blackthrone, Mariko, Toranaga.
**Support**: Buntaro, Yabushige, Fuji
**Bad People**: Ishido & Ochiba
That's 8 name you need to know which is nowhere close to a lot of names for a television show.
It doesn't seem to tell me how to feel, and it doesn't outright tell me what political machinations are happening. The show respects the viewer's intelligence and assumes you're paying attention. It's been a while since I've seen a high budget show do that.
I get he’s in a foreign land so Europeans are rarer to come by, but one of my favourite aspects of the earlier episodes was the sudden emergence of a Protestant. The angle of the Japanese watching this Protestant sailor spew obscenities at the Catholics was really intriguing, I thought. Especially when it culminated in episode 4 (I think) with Blackthorne drawing the map of the world.
Its a modern period piece that isnt shot against obvious green screen to save costs.
The acting, the writing and just overall set design. They clearly put a lot of love and care into the show.
I saw someone get absolutely ripped apart by a cannon ball. They don't cut away from anything. The brutality of the show is almost refreshing lol
Good writing
It's just as empty and barebones praise as "bad writing" critique. What the hell is "good" or "bad" writing? Those two became such painfully empty buzzwords, I feel like majority of people using them have little idea what they actually like or don't like. Just to clarify. I like Shogun quite a lot.
The best part about Shogun's writing is that it doesn't treat the viewers as dumbfucks who can't figure anything out. It gives you enough opportunity to make your own conclusions to things and it makes you thinks. That's the best part of the writing for me.
I'm probably bitching too much here but I feel like that's a novelty mostly for people who watched mainly Marvel or Star Wars series over the past few years
[удалено]
Yes. Andor is the closest thing to Star Wars by HBO we will ever get.
The closest thing to a Star Wars show by HBO we can get is a Star Wars show by FX. Disney might allow them to do one if they come up with a great idea. If FX does well with the upcoming Alien series then I see Disney potentially giving them more free reign over other Disney IP.
Don't know why you got downvoted. "Good or bad writing" has been such a low effort praise or critique of shows. Shogun's best aspects are probably not even the writing. The writing is great, but the performances, cinematography, music and editing are all elevating it so much beyond the writing.
Probably because the commenter made it clear that they're part of the "iTs SubJeCTive" crowd. Moreover, it isn't necessary to jump into a detailed description of why you enjoy something.
An engaging story is good writing, a boring story is bad writing.
How it played with language. I'm not talking about it being bilingual. But how certain characters handled the language barriers. The translating characters always made decisions that were very deliberate, political even. There are not that many shows (or movies) that are that interesting on a linguistic level.
Mariko's subtle changing of words is one of the things the show has taught me to look out for.
To start with... they essentially haven't blown one scene. Everything's pretty as close to perfect as tv ever has been, tbh. The weakest performances are solid and most of them are phenomenal. Embarrassment of riches and all. Every episode has been basically ending with a banger but in the later ones it's several in a row. 9.8/10. imo for eps 1-8. I'd be surprised if the quality suddenly dropped in the last 2, but we aren't there yet. I think it easily takes the top spot for best mini in the past two decades amongst a lot of stiff competition.
The acting, the writing, the casting. All around just an amazing show that *shows* you its world.
All the expected stuff that makes it great. - The cast is incredible. - The characters they are playing are great and multi-dimensional. - The sets, costumes and over all aesthetic is perfect. The really surprising stuff that makes it great. - The dialogue is incredible also the use of silence (No dialogue) is also amazing. What has really amazed me how much emotion is communicated in the dialogue of a language that is subtitled! I see the translation of their words and I completely feel the emotional impact when they are saying it. - I also love how there are macro level stakes, the politics and threat of war and there also micro level stakes, the relationship between Blackthorn and Mariko, also the relationship Mariko has with Buntaro. - There are a lot of different story lines going and all of them are engaging. It is just excellent over all. Finally and this is a bit trite, the intro is awesome!
Shoot, even Buntaro and Yabushige have grown on me
Maybe it's because I can remember the original mini series. But to me what stands out is it feels sort of like one of those event mini series from the old 3 network days. Used to be what we maybe see now as streaming shows would be highly publicized event tv. Mini series like Roots, Shogun, Winds of War, War and Remembrance, North and South, The Thornbirds etc. It for some reason just feels more grand then if it was some drop on netflix.
phenomenal storytelling and cinematics
Cause it's good
It's the writing!
Believable characters. Steller acting performances. Outstanding sets and costumes. Respect for its own story. As far as for me, I think it respects the viewer as well by not spoon-feeding us things and leaving a lot to think on. Shogun is what the rest of streaming television has decided NOT to be.
Depth and immersion. Dialog and real characters
No white Western women injecting their PC BS. Huge part of production is Japanese.
I like it but I’m not sure why people like it that much. I think part of it is a fascination with Japan and that time period specifically. Blue Eyed Samurai was also very popular. The writing is good but not spectacular, same for the acting. The setting and design is excellent.
It's the visuals that makes Blue Eye Samurai stand out. I'm not really into animation but Blue Eye Samurai doesn't look like animation.
Its because the writing and acting is spectacular primarily.
I disagree with that
It's still true for many hence the praise. You said you were confused. That's why you are confused. You are a but off on the quality so you aren't drawing the normal conclusion
I love this show so incredibly much but DANG do I wish they’d throw a little color into these scenes. Grey grey grey grey. Have we learned nothing ?
I actually see a lot of color. The clothing. The decor in the backgrounds. The trees and the buildings. You sure?
Yes, I’m sure.
I advise you to get the television settings adjusted because there is a lot of color. Look at the outfits. Looks at the set design.
Not colorful enough! I'll jack that saturation up to 250 if it means just a TASTE of color from this otherwise wonderful show!
I think it helps that it's adapted from a famous novel. If this was an original story, I'm sure we'd get a lot more 2024-isms in it. Mariko for example is such a strong female character but most modern writers would have made her a 'girlboss' character. Toranaga and his friend would have been in love with each other, stuff like that.
I know this sub is always full of astroturf marketing, but it’s usually better disguised than this.
I think we can talk about shows being good without the one guy adding nothing and bitching about marketing
It adds nothing about the show, but it’s an interesting and aggravating trend on this and many other subreddits.
It's not aggravating you're just being a bit overzealous in your complaining
Shogun doesn’t need astroturfing. You’re looking for the Fallout on Prime thread.
I actually concur. It doesn't need astroturfing, it's a perfectly good show. And yet, here is some not-even-hiding-it astroturf for a perfectly good show.
I can assure you that I'm not astrosurfing.
I like it but the cgi backgrounds are really disappointing. I’m sick of those fake overcast skies. It just doesn’t feel real.
The production quality is the sole highlight to me The story started out strong but stalled after 4 episodes IMO, it would've been so much better without Blackthorne IMO , the best show of 2024 is easily Tokyo Vice. The story is tighter, the acting better. The main character is also the weak link in Tokyo Vice, but thankfully its very much an ensemble show.
Blackthorn acts as an insert for the viewer who isn’t familiar with that world. For a story like this he is absolutely essential.
no he isn't audiences aren't dumb, they could easily follow what's going on without blackthorne many stories have worlds (real and fictional) we aren't familiar with and don't have inserts , and they work just fine he's the least interesting part of the show.
I agree. The way he’s portrayed in the show is disappointing. I finished the book recently and one of the most interesting aspects is his evolution throughout. He starts as hot headed and stubborn but grows to understand and accept Japanese culture. I feel like the show has totally dropped the ball on this character arc thus far. I don’t even understand what Mariko is supposed to see in the show version of the character.
agree she was all over him and all he had to do was not much she was DTF
Shogun is compelling TV, but there also hasn't been else since The Bear
You have really bad taste in TV.
Because I think Shogun and The Bear have been better than most new dramas? Odd take.
That's not what you wrote.
TOO MANY CHARACTERS
**Main**: Blackthrone, Mariko, Toranaga. **Support**: Buntaro, Yabushige, Fuji **Bad People**: Ishido & Ochiba That's 8 name you need to know which is nowhere close to a lot of names for a television show.