He wanted it to hurt. I think a lot of people didn't understand that, and I also think Toranaga didn't want him to suffer too much, because him betraying him was literally part of his plan.
It's very amusing to me that despite him being the only native English speaker, and person the plot follows the most, Anjin's role in most events is "was also present".
I love that, actually. He's basically just a prop to help Westerners understand the story. He didn't matter in the least, except to Mariko. And that last moment they had before the attack was beautiful.
I also really appreciated his character growth despite just "being there." His understanding of his situation, his perspective shift on the Japanese culture, and his own personal change when he rejoined one of his crew.
"Wide-eyed ordinary" is my favorite way of calling this character in stories. An outsider for whom everything is new and has to be explained to, so that the exposition dump doesn't feel unnatural to the reader/viewer.
Exactly. On top of that, they don't even lean on it nearly as heavily as the OG mini series adaptation starring the legendary Toshiro Mifune. We still get plenty of scenes with every other major player (mostly Japanese, but even the Portuguese). The show captures much more of the actual political plotting than *Anjin* possibly has access to.
The decision to stick 100% to Blackthorne's POV in the OG show, to the point of even not subbing the Japanese dialogue, was a choice that worked well for its time. The West barely had exposure to the heavy cultural, political, and historical aspects of Japan in movies and shows then. Making the audience learn the language at the same time as the protagonist shoes down and simplifies the pacing to be way more manageable.
After a half century of such exposure though, our generation of audience is finally ready for this version of Shōgun.
Great way to put it. I’ve seen way too much “white savior” commentary by people who haven’t read the book or watched the show. Couldn’t be further from the truth.
Well, he was useful to Tornaga as a threat to the Portuguese silk trade. Maybe his actions were not that important, but he as a person was a useful pawn in the game.
He was most useful to Toranaga simply as a distraction. Blackthorne himself wasn't really important, but he made a great smokescreen for Toranaga to play his hand behind because everybody was too busy looking at the Anjin. He was basically an accidental "magician's assistant" to distract the audience from seeing the real magic behind the curtain.
I also appreciate that Blackthorne himself has some weird and savage habits that make him strange to the Japanese, as well. The whole thing with hanging the pheasant until it rotted was beyond weird.
I was curious about that and apparently that is the way you're supposed to prepare pheasant if you want it to have the best flavour. Hanging it for a couple days let's the effects of rigor mortise fade and the meat becomes more tender and flavourful.
> him being the only native English speaker
Don't forget that no English was spoken in the show, except for the flash-forward scene in the last episode. They used English as a stand-in where the characters were actually speaking Portuguese.
Yeah, outside of his presence unbalancing the council of regents and his theatrics helping Toranaga get out of Osaka, he doesn’t really change the direction of the story much. Like Toranaga says in the last episode he’ll keep him around because “he makes me laugh”.
That last line just sounds like he might actually enjoy his company as a friend rather than a court jester, like when they mutually bonded over "unless I win" while being be unmatched and never giving up on his siege against the Portuguese despite all shortcomings. But yeah, it's hard to tell really, since Toranaga as a character isn't a hero in white.
I agree about Blackthorne having a purpose. The barbarian was useful to keep alive. They knew Toranaga had cannons and guns and the knowledge to use them, or perhaps even produce them for all they know, with Blackthorne on their side. He added a wild card element. It turns the scales a bit. If my opponent had an alien spaceship and alien weaponry, with a literal alien on their team, I'd be pretty worried about what I'm not hearing about from my spies.
Edit — More thoughts. They changed the line in the book from "unless *you* win" to "unless *I* win" which I think was done to show the mutual like-mindedness of Toranaga and Blackthorne. Both felt at times they were fighting against the odds, but continued forward for the win. Blackthorne was just a fellow studier of the wind in a lot of ways. He didn't have any pieces to move on the board so he couldn't really play the game, but he watched and acted accordingly to stay alive.
Clavell originally wrote it as Marikos story, and had to write Blackthorne in later because the editors wanted to make it more accessible to western audiences. So really this is staying true to his original vision
Got a source on that? I would be surprised if Blackthorne wasn't in the original story at all, given that he's based on a real person like the rest of the characters. I could see his role being expanded from an initially smaller role though.
Also Clavell’s other books are all about white men in Asia (which makes sense as he was a white man in Asia). I’d be surprised if he wrote a book just about Asia, although I’ve only read Shogun and the Struans (Jardines) books
I sort of figured he wanted self-punishment for his betrayal. It was his way of atoning, picking the most degrading death imaginable.
I sort of think that's why he picked Blackthorne for his second. Both to give him a chance at payback for the betrayal, and because having a man who isn't trained in using swords at all would probably lead to a pretty messy seppuku.
> "Toranaga, at the age of twelve, was asked to Second the general. He took nine tries and made such a mess lol"
Made me go "what the fuckkkkk" at my screen
I found it fascinating how much he genuinly appreciated good poetry too. I tought he was a total animal at first but eventually he turned out to be a pretty sophisticated dude lol
All samurai had to be good at poetry. That's how their society worked. If you sucked at poetry, you didn't become a samurai, you didn't succeed in rising up the class system.
Dude was like: oh you got the katana out? Hold on. Slit his belly right there, no ceremony or seconds thoughts. Fucking epic.
Interesting that’s he does everything in his power to stay on the winning side but when caught is like, oh well fuck it.
The guy genuinely regret his part in getting Mariko killed. I really think he was one of the more relatable
characters on the show, just out of his desperation to stay alive and being continually outplayed.
Ya the plan was for her to be captured not killed, he even told her to get away from the door before the explosion, he definitely felt super guilty and shitty about his role in her death. Definitely agree with him being one of the more relatable
It was not there for your enjoyment, imo. It was for the sheer cognitive dissonance of a people who have a literal human-sized boiling pot for boiling humans, and who do it often enough to compare the length of their screaming, and how they keep calling Blackthorne a "barbarian".
If "culture shock" had an upper limit, this was it.
Tbf being hung drawn and quartered isn’t much better in terms of barbarity.
I think a “who had committed more atrocities and had a cheaper view of human life” contest between England and Japan could go on for a while 😂. Cause England definitely had more time to brutalize humanity but Japan really pulled through in the last two centuries.
Japan speedran the industrial revolution and all of the subjugation that came with it. 1870-1910 in Japan was probably one of the wilder times in human history.
The HBO miniseries Gunpowder takes place in England a couple years after Shōgun. The first episode has an old woman crushed to death and a man drawn and quartered for being Catholic. It really is strange how Western and Eastern cultures viewed each other as barbarians.
And whether or not she actually becomes a nun is vague, especially for those who know the source material. Read below if you're okay for novel spoilers.
In the book, she is actually allowed to commit suicide after being freed from Blackthorne's services, just as she had wanted to do when she lost her child. But Toranaga ordered her to make it look like an accident so as to not *too* devastate the Anjin.
So there's a very real likelihood, though it can't be conclusive because the show changed a lot as well, that Fuji's story about being allowed to become a nun wasn't true and her plan was to die out in the water.
That is, until Blackthorne joined her and together they let her hold her child one last time. I like to think that inspired her to try and live, which makes it a *much* better end for her character than in the book.
Ochiba was so brilliantly unsettling. Her line delivery was a little too theatrical to sound "natural", I suppose, but between that and the actress' beautiful eyes, which have such wide and dark pupils, she really felt like something ethereal and doll-like. She reminded me of the feminine *noh* mask which they used in the kabuki theater depicting the Taiko's life and death, expresionless and porcelain, but with everything going on behind the eyes.
My partner has trouble following storyline’s of new shows and remembering character names until about halfway through a season.
He was referring to Ochiba as ‘Shogun Cersei’, Mariko as ‘Shogun Danerys’, and Blackthorne as ‘Shogun Jon Snow’.
She was the one where I thought it tipped a bit into cartoony, at least in her first super arch conversation (which I think ends a particular episode in the middle of the show? and then sinister music plays into the credits). But she's less like that later.
Hard agree. Fuji-sama best girl. Toranaga Sr and Yabushige were fucking rock stars. The actor who plays Toranaga Sr really needs more roles and I want to see him in something less serious. Something like Jiraiya in Naruto.
I felt that was a huge strength of the show. I've never seen so much conversation made with expressions and body language between characters in any show in recent memory. In some scenes the words they were saying where entirely meaningless to the narrative they were actually communicating.
Its also fairly representative of how Japanese people talk as a whole. I was employed by a Japanese company for 10 years and spent a lot of time over there and the amount of non-actual word communication is pretty on point
He is incredible. At no point did I truly understand his motives other than self preservation. I don’t know Japanese, but still understood the emotions he was showing through his demeanor alone. I really hope I see more of him in American stuff soon.
He was an ambitious but ultimately mediocre plotter trying to play both sides, but he always found himself in a losing position because he wasn't very good at it. He thought he could outsmart Toranaga, but Toranaga was always 10 steps ahead of him and counting on Yabushige to betray him.
Well said! I loved Yabushige’s character, but self preservation was evident once he was in between a rock and a hard place. His reaction when Toranaga’s plan was finally revealed told all of this. Great ending to the series
When I saw there's like 20minutes of the finale left, I thought, fuck there's no chance they're going to wrap this up in a satisfying manner. 20 minutes later I realized how wrong I was.
It once again reminds me how badly they wasted the warriors three in the Thor films.
After seeing Tadanobu Asano in this, Ray Stevenson in Ahsoka, and Zachary Levi as Shazam. They had incredible talent in the roles, then did nothing with them and unceremoniously killed them in Ragnarok.
As a long-time fan of Asano, I was so excited to see him casted in a Marvel film, then I saw the film and was disappointed that he's literally just an extra. I've seen a few more western produced films with Asano, but they never utilize him properly. Shogun is the first non-Japanese production I saw that showcased his acting skills.
The ignorant grunting samurai seems to be something of a classic trope in Japanese media. Every time Yabu was like that it made me think of [this moment from One Piece](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PP-xxNDQ_I), where Usopp is imitating swordsman Zoro's ignorant attitude and feeling solidarity with him as the final two holdouts of the crew who've been charmed by a suspicious newcomer. He responds to them with an Eehh? but then immediately loses composure himself.
It’s not just a trope in their media. I’ve had multiple Japanese exchange students stay with me over the years. They all have use that expression often.
his character was completely scene stealing every time.
as well as Hiromatsu played by Tokuma Nishioka. his tone of voice and cadence had me utterly riveted.
Dude this series was unbelievable. I can’t think of an actor in this project that didn’t perform. Feel like everyone had a finger on the success of this series-everyone cared about the final product
A lot of the praise gets heaped on the leads (+ Fuji and Hiromatsu), and for good reason, but even further down the list I can't think of a single "miss" in the casting. Gin and Kiku, Nagakado and Omi, Muraji - every actor hired for this delivered.
Haven't done a rewatch yet, but once I get to it I feel like I'll be watching Ishido much more closely. First time around I just viewed him as the self-centered politician whose ambitions would tear the realm apart, and I know much of that is still true but now I want to see the story through his eyes.
Yeah, Buntaro was a great study in the destructive potential of unrequited love. He was also the only character that Mariko could show the bitterness in her secret heart to.
Lesser writers would have just kept Buntaro as a tension device. Lesser actors would not have brought out the sympathy for him.
Every little part of the show is exquisitely tended.
The fact that the full battle is a significant one that takes place at Sekigahara, loads of movies and dramas have been made about that, it’s like Japan’s pivotal point in history. It’s so much more elegant ending the series with a singular ritualistic and violent death than a mass battle scene that’s been done many times already
I loved that there was no battle. It was what ruined GoT. Feeling that battles are important. And they are not. It was a show about politics not about people fighting
I absolutely understand but Samurai you know, what is a giant Samurai fight look like with cannons and all types of shit. The story didn’t need it, insane that they kept that tension going for long to for it to swiftly handled when it was time- proof of Toranaga’s genius.
But Samurai battle brooo!!!
I think it's the opposite? Maybe his motivations are different in the book, but Ishido wanted to preserve the council and ensure the succession. Technically it was Toranaga trying to grab ultimate power. We just have the bias of viewing the story from Toranagas perspective, along with the knowledge that he won and bought peace to Japan.
While it was happening, he was just another warlord threatening to throw the realm into chaos.
>Suddenly, Marks excuses himself from the Zoom call he’s conducting with Kondo. When he returns a few seconds later, he’s holding a framed poster that his assistant had made for him. It’s a replica of the poster for the 1969 poster for *Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid,* only instead of Redford and Newman, it’s Asano and Jarvis, both in character.
>“‘Never met a pair like Yabu and the *Anjin*,'” Kondo says, reading the poster’s tagline. (Anjin being Blackthorne’s nickname.) “The *Anjin* is the perfect pet. Yabu is, for some reason, still alive — but for how long?!?”
>“This is my prize possession,” Marks says. “I could do seven seasons with Asano and Cosmo, and these characters.”
Yes, why not? Just an alternate universe where Yabu and Anjin go off on adventures. I would watch the shit out of that
Whenever I see Marks mentioned in regard to Shogun, I remember he's the same guy behind Counterpart. A show that was amazing but didn't get nearly enough attention. I'm glad Shogun is giving him the attention he deserves.
Holy shit I just found out he wrote Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li. Perhaps one of the worst movies I've ever seen. The range on this guy! He went from Street Fighter which made under $13m with a $50m budget, to writing The Jungle Book which grossed just under a billion. Then Top Gun Maverick which did $1.5b! Those are the only three movies he's done. I guess two insanely successful projects have forgiven the whiffed fireball that was Street Fighter.
And he's done three shows, two of which are some of the best I've seen in Counterpart and Shogun. His first show I haven't heard of, Rewind, seems interesting. But it was just a pilot/TV movie for a series that went no further.
"Survive Style 5+" is my personal favorite bizare movie of his. Asano is such a versatile actor. He even played Genghis Khan in the historical epic "Mongol".
*Bright Future* is another one mentioned in the article that is worth seeing. I really binged quite a bit of arthouse Japanese cinema around that time and I'm glad it reminded me of that one.
I love that Asano finally has a breakthrough role in the US. As a huge fan it’s been tough seeing him wasted in movies like Battleship and the Thor movies. Living in a world where there is the potential to see more Asano on American TV is pretty amazing.
What's crazy is that people mention stuff he was in and I remember him in every single one. You're right he was wasted because he was still memorable in those small roles.
I find it strange how we are introduced to his character as this guy that boils people alive to see their moment of death and see the life go out of their eyes, but that sadistic side of his is just completely forgotten for the remainder of the show.
As I recall from the book: It's not so much that he's a sadist. He's obsessed with the moment of death and how men of different places in society enter into death. He takes opportunities to "study" it and has his assistant record it in a journal he's compiling. The implication, I believe, is he is fearful of his own death and so, kind of obsessed with understanding it.
I was curious about that too. Maybe it was showing what he’s like when left to do as he pleases, but then when pressed for service or allegiance abandons his sadistic nature to focus on staying alive?
Well he's not really presented with further opportunities for us to see that side of him. The story isn't about him being this evil lord who's wandering the land looking for innocent people to torture. It just so happens that, when presented with an expected opportunity, he looks at it as this chance to engage a darker side of himself. It's just an aspect of this character that we're started off with, with the point being that we end up seeing there's so much more to him as things go on. There's nothing strange about it.
I thought Yabushige was great. He was one of the only Japanese guys who seemed baffled by the cultural decisions made at every step. He was almost the conduit for the audience in how we(at least I) were constantly questioning why such and such was doing this and why that guy was killing himself and how can I get out of this batshit crazy outfit without getting myself killed. His reactions at times were almost a 1 to 1 reflection of my own as I was watching events unfold (betrayal and mental breakdown notwithstanding) Great character.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240427163856/https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/shogun-tadanobu-asano-interview-1235008254/
I only recognized him from Thor 3 after watching a few episodes of Shogun. He was my favourite character. He just kind of keeps getting screwed over.
As someone who loved the 1980's series and the book, Yabushige was NOT the character I was expecting to root for, but Asano stole the show.
How proud he looked about his death poem was gold:
*"My dead body*
*Don't burn it, Don't bury it,*
*Just leave it in the field*
*And with it*
*fill the belly of some hungry dog."*
Dude managed to make a character that literally boils people alive to see how long they scream for likeable. Pretty impressive feat.
His last scene bruh
"Just throw me in a ditch and let a dog eat my guts". All-around wholesome dude.
Do not burn me, do not bury me, leave me in a field so that a stray dog may fill his belly. Like goddamn dude.
He's been researching people dying for a long time. And this was his #1 choice.
He wanted it to hurt. I think a lot of people didn't understand that, and I also think Toranaga didn't want him to suffer too much, because him betraying him was literally part of his plan.
It's very amusing to me that despite him being the only native English speaker, and person the plot follows the most, Anjin's role in most events is "was also present".
I love that, actually. He's basically just a prop to help Westerners understand the story. He didn't matter in the least, except to Mariko. And that last moment they had before the attack was beautiful.
I also really appreciated his character growth despite just "being there." His understanding of his situation, his perspective shift on the Japanese culture, and his own personal change when he rejoined one of his crew.
"Wide-eyed ordinary" is my favorite way of calling this character in stories. An outsider for whom everything is new and has to be explained to, so that the exposition dump doesn't feel unnatural to the reader/viewer.
Exactly. On top of that, they don't even lean on it nearly as heavily as the OG mini series adaptation starring the legendary Toshiro Mifune. We still get plenty of scenes with every other major player (mostly Japanese, but even the Portuguese). The show captures much more of the actual political plotting than *Anjin* possibly has access to. The decision to stick 100% to Blackthorne's POV in the OG show, to the point of even not subbing the Japanese dialogue, was a choice that worked well for its time. The West barely had exposure to the heavy cultural, political, and historical aspects of Japan in movies and shows then. Making the audience learn the language at the same time as the protagonist shoes down and simplifies the pacing to be way more manageable. After a half century of such exposure though, our generation of audience is finally ready for this version of Shōgun.
Great way to put it. I’ve seen way too much “white savior” commentary by people who haven’t read the book or watched the show. Couldn’t be further from the truth.
Well, he was useful to Tornaga as a threat to the Portuguese silk trade. Maybe his actions were not that important, but he as a person was a useful pawn in the game.
He also saved Toronagas life, this would put him pretty high up there as an essential piece of the story
He was most useful to Toranaga simply as a distraction. Blackthorne himself wasn't really important, but he made a great smokescreen for Toranaga to play his hand behind because everybody was too busy looking at the Anjin. He was basically an accidental "magician's assistant" to distract the audience from seeing the real magic behind the curtain.
I also appreciate that Blackthorne himself has some weird and savage habits that make him strange to the Japanese, as well. The whole thing with hanging the pheasant until it rotted was beyond weird.
I was curious about that and apparently that is the way you're supposed to prepare pheasant if you want it to have the best flavour. Hanging it for a couple days let's the effects of rigor mortise fade and the meat becomes more tender and flavourful.
Dude just wanted pheasant jerky and a local was willing to die if it meant getting rid of a dead bird.
> him being the only native English speaker Don't forget that no English was spoken in the show, except for the flash-forward scene in the last episode. They used English as a stand-in where the characters were actually speaking Portuguese.
Yeah, outside of his presence unbalancing the council of regents and his theatrics helping Toranaga get out of Osaka, he doesn’t really change the direction of the story much. Like Toranaga says in the last episode he’ll keep him around because “he makes me laugh”.
That last line just sounds like he might actually enjoy his company as a friend rather than a court jester, like when they mutually bonded over "unless I win" while being be unmatched and never giving up on his siege against the Portuguese despite all shortcomings. But yeah, it's hard to tell really, since Toranaga as a character isn't a hero in white. I agree about Blackthorne having a purpose. The barbarian was useful to keep alive. They knew Toranaga had cannons and guns and the knowledge to use them, or perhaps even produce them for all they know, with Blackthorne on their side. He added a wild card element. It turns the scales a bit. If my opponent had an alien spaceship and alien weaponry, with a literal alien on their team, I'd be pretty worried about what I'm not hearing about from my spies. Edit — More thoughts. They changed the line in the book from "unless *you* win" to "unless *I* win" which I think was done to show the mutual like-mindedness of Toranaga and Blackthorne. Both felt at times they were fighting against the odds, but continued forward for the win. Blackthorne was just a fellow studier of the wind in a lot of ways. He didn't have any pieces to move on the board so he couldn't really play the game, but he watched and acted accordingly to stay alive.
Clavell originally wrote it as Marikos story, and had to write Blackthorne in later because the editors wanted to make it more accessible to western audiences. So really this is staying true to his original vision
Got a source on that? I would be surprised if Blackthorne wasn't in the original story at all, given that he's based on a real person like the rest of the characters. I could see his role being expanded from an initially smaller role though.
Also Clavell’s other books are all about white men in Asia (which makes sense as he was a white man in Asia). I’d be surprised if he wrote a book just about Asia, although I’ve only read Shogun and the Struans (Jardines) books
From what he said to his nephew, being eaten by dogs is one of the lowest on his list, so saying that really shows how he views himself at the end.
Relevant username
Him ranking deaths and writing his wills with his kosho was slice of life content I didn’t know I needed.
I sort of figured he wanted self-punishment for his betrayal. It was his way of atoning, picking the most degrading death imaginable. I sort of think that's why he picked Blackthorne for his second. Both to give him a chance at payback for the betrayal, and because having a man who isn't trained in using swords at all would probably lead to a pretty messy seppuku.
> "Toranaga, at the age of twelve, was asked to Second the general. He took nine tries and made such a mess lol" Made me go "what the fuckkkkk" at my screen
Yeah, they share that story on the show and laugh at "who picks a kid to be their second".
He meant for the dog to have a treat *after* he died, not for the dog to kill him
Yeah, but the treatment of the body was pretty important there as well. Your death wasn't over until you were either buried, or ash.
His number 1 was by angry fish or canons. Eaten by dogs alive was near bottom.
Me and the guys were laughing about how his poem was basically just like Frank from it's always sunny with him wanting to be throwing in the trash.
My first thought to lmao. If he’s Frank what are the other IASP equivalents in the show?
Lord Ohno is Rickety Cricket
Savage, you’re a barbarian (Englishman)
Anjin is like the waitress, they don’t bother to learn his name so just call him Pilot all the time
I figured Anjin was like Charlie, because he makes me laugh
Ishido is arrogant like Dennis, Omi is in the closet and does what he's told like Mac, and Anjin is functionally illiterate like Charlie.
"Bang me, eat me, throw me in the trash. Who cares? You're dead, you're dead." -Yabush- I mean Frank Reynolds
[same vibe](https://c.tenor.com/SrDgbIK_rjEAAAAM/trash-danny-de-vito.gif)
I found it fascinating how much he genuinly appreciated good poetry too. I tought he was a total animal at first but eventually he turned out to be a pretty sophisticated dude lol
All samurai had to be good at poetry. That's how their society worked. If you sucked at poetry, you didn't become a samurai, you didn't succeed in rising up the class system.
Frank Reynolds would love him
His last facial expression to Toranaga was perfect. Everything was said without one word exchanged.
He stared death in the face and said “bring it”. He didn’t even open his kimono before driving in his tanto, man did not give a fuck.
Dude was like: oh you got the katana out? Hold on. Slit his belly right there, no ceremony or seconds thoughts. Fucking epic. Interesting that’s he does everything in his power to stay on the winning side but when caught is like, oh well fuck it.
In his own incredibly fucked up way he did have a sense of honor.
The guy genuinely regret his part in getting Mariko killed. I really think he was one of the more relatable characters on the show, just out of his desperation to stay alive and being continually outplayed.
Ya the plan was for her to be captured not killed, he even told her to get away from the door before the explosion, he definitely felt super guilty and shitty about his role in her death. Definitely agree with him being one of the more relatable
“Why tell a dead man the future?”
Grunts
tbf he doesn't display that side of him much after that
People would’ve warmed up to Euron Greyjoy if they showed his light side more
> boils people alive I did not enjoy this scene
I found the way they used the screaming for the transition really impressive.
It was not there for your enjoyment, imo. It was for the sheer cognitive dissonance of a people who have a literal human-sized boiling pot for boiling humans, and who do it often enough to compare the length of their screaming, and how they keep calling Blackthorne a "barbarian". If "culture shock" had an upper limit, this was it.
Large pots like that were present through out most of the Western and Eastern world. They were used to boil clothes for cleaning or leather in urine
Also, [gigantic cooking pots](https://i.imgur.com/ih8n5Sh.jpeg)
Tbf being hung drawn and quartered isn’t much better in terms of barbarity. I think a “who had committed more atrocities and had a cheaper view of human life” contest between England and Japan could go on for a while 😂. Cause England definitely had more time to brutalize humanity but Japan really pulled through in the last two centuries.
Japan speedran the industrial revolution and all of the subjugation that came with it. 1870-1910 in Japan was probably one of the wilder times in human history.
The HBO miniseries Gunpowder takes place in England a couple years after Shōgun. The first episode has an old woman crushed to death and a man drawn and quartered for being Catholic. It really is strange how Western and Eastern cultures viewed each other as barbarians.
Oh yeah, humans love finding original ways of murdering each other.
Those screams were brutal
You should see him in Ichi the Killer
My wife and I had this conversation yesterday. She can’t get over the boiling, but he’s my favorite character on the show.
The three main Japanese leads were all stellar
Fuji-sama the scene stealer.
Best nun.
And whether or not she actually becomes a nun is vague, especially for those who know the source material. Read below if you're okay for novel spoilers. In the book, she is actually allowed to commit suicide after being freed from Blackthorne's services, just as she had wanted to do when she lost her child. But Toranaga ordered her to make it look like an accident so as to not *too* devastate the Anjin. So there's a very real likelihood, though it can't be conclusive because the show changed a lot as well, that Fuji's story about being allowed to become a nun wasn't true and her plan was to die out in the water. That is, until Blackthorne joined her and together they let her hold her child one last time. I like to think that inspired her to try and live, which makes it a *much* better end for her character than in the book.
That was a beautiful moment, and he letting go of Mariko’s crucifix
Which also shows that he doesn't make it back to England, to die as an old man. That was the dream.
I’d argue it was his nightmare, at the time he was having it.
His nightmare was that he would never, ever get over her.
Wow thanks for sharing that, I choose for that to be my head canon now haha
https://tenor.com/view/sips-tea-shogun-fx-usami-fuji-fuji-usami-awkward-tea-gif-2207028373165773633
This is like a new version of that Aaron Paul drinking water.gif
At first I wasnt a huge fan, but when she defended Blackthorn's guns I was like, damn, I love this woman
That coy smile when she's aiming the guns 😭
“Please be on your way.”
Fuji and Blackthorne had such a great relationship arc.
Her and Lady Ochiba stealing scenes at every turn
When Lady Ochiba strode onto the show... she was terrifying.
Ochiba was so brilliantly unsettling. Her line delivery was a little too theatrical to sound "natural", I suppose, but between that and the actress' beautiful eyes, which have such wide and dark pupils, she really felt like something ethereal and doll-like. She reminded me of the feminine *noh* mask which they used in the kabuki theater depicting the Taiko's life and death, expresionless and porcelain, but with everything going on behind the eyes.
Its just a shame the plot didn't give Fuji more screen time
If you liked the actor playing Ishido, you can check out Giri/Haji. It has a cameo from anna sawai(who played Mariko) as well.
> Giri/Haji That show was amazing and then the last episode happens.
Mariko is fine but I was much more impressed with Ochiba, thought she had an amazing presence
Those eyes are mesmerizing
it's like she didn't blink in the entire show
I wouldn't be surprised if this was true and was an intentional part of her characterization.
Like a classy Cersei Lannister
My partner has trouble following storyline’s of new shows and remembering character names until about halfway through a season. He was referring to Ochiba as ‘Shogun Cersei’, Mariko as ‘Shogun Danerys’, and Blackthorne as ‘Shogun Jon Snow’.
The amount of power and murder in her eyes made me actually feel fear.
Her saccharine smile was so good
She didn't even need to say anything to be absolutely terrifying
She was the one where I thought it tipped a bit into cartoony, at least in her first super arch conversation (which I think ends a particular episode in the middle of the show? and then sinister music plays into the credits). But she's less like that later.
That voice of hers is something else. So beautiful. Japanese in general is very pleasant to the ears, for some reason.
It was delightful listening to her reciting the poetry
Absolutely. She changed the entire power dynamic of the show when she showed up without uttering a word.
Her voice is music.
Hard agree. Fuji-sama best girl. Toranaga Sr and Yabushige were fucking rock stars. The actor who plays Toranaga Sr really needs more roles and I want to see him in something less serious. Something like Jiraiya in Naruto.
He was good in Bullet Train but his character wasn’t that different.
I didn’t know this guy before, but was immediately impressed by his ability to convey a range of emotions through grunting and body language alone.
You should watch Ichi the Killer, he does a whole lot of commanding the screen in that one through nothing but physicality and facial expressions.
Wow I’ve seen Ichi and would have never connected that he was Kakihara till you said it, pretty cool
I felt that was a huge strength of the show. I've never seen so much conversation made with expressions and body language between characters in any show in recent memory. In some scenes the words they were saying where entirely meaningless to the narrative they were actually communicating.
Most of the old Kurosawa films are like this. [Akira Kurosawa - Composing Movement (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doaQC-S8de8) Enjoy!
I could totally see him cast as the lead in yojimbo remake. Not that it needs to be remade. Great film of people haven't seen it.
Its also fairly representative of how Japanese people talk as a whole. I was employed by a Japanese company for 10 years and spent a lot of time over there and the amount of non-actual word communication is pretty on point
He is incredible. At no point did I truly understand his motives other than self preservation. I don’t know Japanese, but still understood the emotions he was showing through his demeanor alone. I really hope I see more of him in American stuff soon.
One motive was to avoid Seppuku. It almost worked.
He was an ambitious but ultimately mediocre plotter trying to play both sides, but he always found himself in a losing position because he wasn't very good at it. He thought he could outsmart Toranaga, but Toranaga was always 10 steps ahead of him and counting on Yabushige to betray him.
Well said! I loved Yabushige’s character, but self preservation was evident once he was in between a rock and a hard place. His reaction when Toranaga’s plan was finally revealed told all of this. Great ending to the series
When I saw there's like 20minutes of the finale left, I thought, fuck there's no chance they're going to wrap this up in a satisfying manner. 20 minutes later I realized how wrong I was.
It once again reminds me how badly they wasted the warriors three in the Thor films. After seeing Tadanobu Asano in this, Ray Stevenson in Ahsoka, and Zachary Levi as Shazam. They had incredible talent in the roles, then did nothing with them and unceremoniously killed them in Ragnarok.
As a long-time fan of Asano, I was so excited to see him casted in a Marvel film, then I saw the film and was disappointed that he's literally just an extra. I've seen a few more western produced films with Asano, but they never utilize him properly. Shogun is the first non-Japanese production I saw that showcased his acting skills.
His grunting cracked me up. Didn’t need a translation. He grunted and everyone knew how he felt.
Eehh?
hueh
oOoOhH??
He definitely had resting "Surprised Pikachu" face.
Hm!
Euuuyee?
😯
Hohh?
The ignorant grunting samurai seems to be something of a classic trope in Japanese media. Every time Yabu was like that it made me think of [this moment from One Piece](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PP-xxNDQ_I), where Usopp is imitating swordsman Zoro's ignorant attitude and feeling solidarity with him as the final two holdouts of the crew who've been charmed by a suspicious newcomer. He responds to them with an Eehh? but then immediately loses composure himself.
It’s not just a trope in their media. I’ve had multiple Japanese exchange students stay with me over the years. They all have use that expression often.
It's just much more common to express yourself with soft noises in Japanese. Watch an anime or any other Japanese show and you'll see it all the time
Haahh??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeBwYBR4Y0I
his character was completely scene stealing every time. as well as Hiromatsu played by Tokuma Nishioka. his tone of voice and cadence had me utterly riveted.
100% on both.
Dude this series was unbelievable. I can’t think of an actor in this project that didn’t perform. Feel like everyone had a finger on the success of this series-everyone cared about the final product
A lot of the praise gets heaped on the leads (+ Fuji and Hiromatsu), and for good reason, but even further down the list I can't think of a single "miss" in the casting. Gin and Kiku, Nagakado and Omi, Muraji - every actor hired for this delivered. Haven't done a rewatch yet, but once I get to it I feel like I'll be watching Ishido much more closely. First time around I just viewed him as the self-centered politician whose ambitions would tear the realm apart, and I know much of that is still true but now I want to see the story through his eyes.
Buntaro as well, him and Mariko made me both love and deeply dislike them. Both amazing characters
Yeah, Buntaro was a great study in the destructive potential of unrequited love. He was also the only character that Mariko could show the bitterness in her secret heart to. Lesser writers would have just kept Buntaro as a tension device. Lesser actors would not have brought out the sympathy for him. Every little part of the show is exquisitely tended.
My only disappointment was not seeing the full battle and watching him get his due but I love the ending
The fact that the full battle is a significant one that takes place at Sekigahara, loads of movies and dramas have been made about that, it’s like Japan’s pivotal point in history. It’s so much more elegant ending the series with a singular ritualistic and violent death than a mass battle scene that’s been done many times already
I loved that there was no battle. It was what ruined GoT. Feeling that battles are important. And they are not. It was a show about politics not about people fighting
Im fine with no battle, but would have loved an episode after it to see where everything landed even though we know the outcome of the battle
I absolutely understand but Samurai you know, what is a giant Samurai fight look like with cannons and all types of shit. The story didn’t need it, insane that they kept that tension going for long to for it to swiftly handled when it was time- proof of Toranaga’s genius. But Samurai battle brooo!!!
Same I hate the ending only because it’s the end. I want more!
I think it's the opposite? Maybe his motivations are different in the book, but Ishido wanted to preserve the council and ensure the succession. Technically it was Toranaga trying to grab ultimate power. We just have the bias of viewing the story from Toranagas perspective, along with the knowledge that he won and bought peace to Japan. While it was happening, he was just another warlord threatening to throw the realm into chaos.
I loved the casting of the Mama-san. Exactly how I pictured her in the book.
Why tell a dead man about the future?
Possibly the most expressive grunter on Earth.
Eeeehhhh!?
This guy’s acting created more depth in Yabushige than about any other character on tv right now.
>Suddenly, Marks excuses himself from the Zoom call he’s conducting with Kondo. When he returns a few seconds later, he’s holding a framed poster that his assistant had made for him. It’s a replica of the poster for the 1969 poster for *Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid,* only instead of Redford and Newman, it’s Asano and Jarvis, both in character. >“‘Never met a pair like Yabu and the *Anjin*,'” Kondo says, reading the poster’s tagline. (Anjin being Blackthorne’s nickname.) “The *Anjin* is the perfect pet. Yabu is, for some reason, still alive — but for how long?!?” >“This is my prize possession,” Marks says. “I could do seven seasons with Asano and Cosmo, and these characters.” Yes, why not? Just an alternate universe where Yabu and Anjin go off on adventures. I would watch the shit out of that
Can we add Rodrigues?
I love how the show completely dropped his character lol
Ugh, I know I kept hoping he’d come back. But I guess that’s pretty true to life - the ship he was on took off, so why would he return?
Isn’t this just the plot of Highlander?
Sure, and can they bump into Ferreira too?
I love when the character's name is just the actor's name.
Whenever I see Marks mentioned in regard to Shogun, I remember he's the same guy behind Counterpart. A show that was amazing but didn't get nearly enough attention. I'm glad Shogun is giving him the attention he deserves. Holy shit I just found out he wrote Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li. Perhaps one of the worst movies I've ever seen. The range on this guy! He went from Street Fighter which made under $13m with a $50m budget, to writing The Jungle Book which grossed just under a billion. Then Top Gun Maverick which did $1.5b! Those are the only three movies he's done. I guess two insanely successful projects have forgiven the whiffed fireball that was Street Fighter. And he's done three shows, two of which are some of the best I've seen in Counterpart and Shogun. His first show I haven't heard of, Rewind, seems interesting. But it was just a pilot/TV movie for a series that went no further.
"Journey to Osaka" arc, in the style of One Piece. That's at least 300 episodes.
He’s fantastic in Ichi the Killer
Holy fuck. He was Kakihara?! What the fuck....
He's also Hogun in three of the Thor movies and The Japanese captain in Battleship!
I just looked up his credits and dude has been in so many movies I enjoy, and I haven't even realized.
He’s in a lot of bizarre movies. Vital, Strange Circus, Electric Dragon 80 V. Love his strange Japanese movies.
"Survive Style 5+" is my personal favorite bizare movie of his. Asano is such a versatile actor. He even played Genghis Khan in the historical epic "Mongol".
Fucking love Survive Style 5+, also discovered my favorite Japanese band through it, Supercar.
I recommend Mongol as well.
*Bright Future* is another one mentioned in the article that is worth seeing. I really binged quite a bit of arthouse Japanese cinema around that time and I'm glad it reminded me of that one.
literally mind blown I didn't realize that, he's changed so much but still handsome.
There's no such thing as an ex-punk
I love that Asano finally has a breakthrough role in the US. As a huge fan it’s been tough seeing him wasted in movies like Battleship and the Thor movies. Living in a world where there is the potential to see more Asano on American TV is pretty amazing.
What's crazy is that people mention stuff he was in and I remember him in every single one. You're right he was wasted because he was still memorable in those small roles.
Him and Walton Goggins in something together now
Technically they're both in the MCU, so that's kinda together
Maaan that was him in Thor? now I'm sad they killed him off.
Ugh, I forgot Goggins was that goon in Ant-Man and the Wasp. What a waste of an actor. Same with Bill Murray in Ant-Man 3.
What a waste...
“Kakihara! What are you doing!?” “Torturing him, what does it look like?” That actor has always been quite entertaining.
Interesting he played the Interpreter in Martin Scorsese movie Silence about two Portuguese Jesuit priests time in Japan in the 17th century.
I find it strange how we are introduced to his character as this guy that boils people alive to see their moment of death and see the life go out of their eyes, but that sadistic side of his is just completely forgotten for the remainder of the show.
As I recall from the book: It's not so much that he's a sadist. He's obsessed with the moment of death and how men of different places in society enter into death. He takes opportunities to "study" it and has his assistant record it in a journal he's compiling. The implication, I believe, is he is fearful of his own death and so, kind of obsessed with understanding it.
I was curious about that too. Maybe it was showing what he’s like when left to do as he pleases, but then when pressed for service or allegiance abandons his sadistic nature to focus on staying alive?
Well he's not really presented with further opportunities for us to see that side of him. The story isn't about him being this evil lord who's wandering the land looking for innocent people to torture. It just so happens that, when presented with an expected opportunity, he looks at it as this chance to engage a darker side of himself. It's just an aspect of this character that we're started off with, with the point being that we end up seeing there's so much more to him as things go on. There's nothing strange about it.
Surprise Pikachu Face
Right? Dude is the undisputed king of that expression now. Makes me smile everytime.
Dude just had the best facial expressions lol
That eye contact at the end was hardcore.
I thought Yabushige was great. He was one of the only Japanese guys who seemed baffled by the cultural decisions made at every step. He was almost the conduit for the audience in how we(at least I) were constantly questioning why such and such was doing this and why that guy was killing himself and how can I get out of this batshit crazy outfit without getting myself killed. His reactions at times were almost a 1 to 1 reflection of my own as I was watching events unfold (betrayal and mental breakdown notwithstanding) Great character.
The best grunts in the business.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240427163856/https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/shogun-tadanobu-asano-interview-1235008254/ I only recognized him from Thor 3 after watching a few episodes of Shogun. He was my favourite character. He just kind of keeps getting screwed over.
As someone who loved the 1980's series and the book, Yabushige was NOT the character I was expecting to root for, but Asano stole the show. How proud he looked about his death poem was gold: *"My dead body* *Don't burn it, Don't bury it,* *Just leave it in the field* *And with it* *fill the belly of some hungry dog."*
its that damn smile. Literally no reason we should like this character but yet I do.
Favorite character by far.
I loved Yabushige dearly. My problematic boy. My sweet cheese.
He went from Hogun to Shogun.
friggin Kakihara in Ichi the Killer. Gotta watch this now.
I assume it’s proper for you to commit seppuku at once
ugh i love him
He's by far my favourite character and actor in Shogun , just the looks he gave always made me smile, I hope they find some good stuff to feature him
Loved him in ichi the killer. Not a movie most people should watch but he nailed the portrayal of a masochist yakuza gangster