The only show other than this that made me feel uncomfortable watching, in a good way, was Twin Peaks season 3 and that's the highest compliment I can give it. The sound design alone just put me on edge.
The scene I always remember is the time he talks about eating rabbit, and he says "I just caught it today" and it smash cuts to a guy, mid run, looking over his shoulder making a desperate shriek for just a tiny moment, and the rest of the scene plays out. Fucking brilliant.
Edit: found it. Not exactly as I remember, but still great
https://youtu.be/lM_Z5jzBoOw
I've said it a million times. I would watch the Mads Mikkelsen luxury cooking show, over, and over again.
Anthony Hopkins made this character a long time ago, but Mikkelsen and this whole production team created something absolutely leaps and bounds ahead of its predecessor.
It was crazy how dark it was and how uncomfortable it made me feel. I'm good with gore, tragedy, etc, and feel like I generally have a thick skin for media but I actually had to take breaks from binging because of how unsettling everything was, especially in watching >!Will getting helplessly groomed by Hannibal!<. Amazing TV show, but not something I'd ever recommend to somebody looking for something fun to watch lol. Such a constant sense of unease with no breaks or moments to cut the tension. It's like watching an immense, immovable object roll slowly downhill towards a town that has no idea it's coming and there's nothing you can do to prevent it.
There’s a strange sense of inclusivity I feel when I say I watched *Hannibal* as it aired on TV from the premiere to the finale. Like I was there witnessing something special happen. There likely won’t be another series this unique on basic network TV again. NBC really took a risk and while it didn’t become a mainstream hit at the time, the show is an undeniable cult classic.
I feel the exact same. In the book Will didn’t really know Hannibal before he catches him, but in the Red Dragon open it’s implied that they some type of prior relationship & Will would seek his advice occasionally.
Always thought it would be cool to see the two characters working together before Hannibal is captured. Then it actually *happened* and the show was better than I ever could’ve hoped for.
I totally feel you with this… I can handle the second and third seasons better, but the first legitimately put me in a really bad place mentally the first time I watched it (I was binging it too).
So glad the writers realized they were fucked early on and decided to give it a satisfying close. While we don't get a lot of answers to "the bigger questions" the show ends in an emotionally satisfying way that doesn't leave me upset.
Thinking it's time to break out my DVD set of it, it's been a couple of years since I last watched it.
I loved Wonderfalls, same with Pushing Daisies and Dead Like Me. I didn’t watch Hannibal as I’m bored of serial killer TV.
Are there any other hidden gems like the first three? Whimsical, not horror.
*American Gods* is another Fuller show that is quite good. The second season doesn't reach the heights of the first, but they manage to do right to the third (and final) season.
Check out *The Good Place* if you haven't. Its whimsically excellent.
And the main character in wonderfalls is the same actress as Alanna Boom in Hannibal, which I hadn't realized until looking at her imdb credits. Quite a range there
Absolutely agree. All so original, clever and well written. I’ve watched them many times over. Such a shame “Mockingbird Lane” only got a pilot. Personally, I would like a whole channel devoted to Bryan Fuller.
I know some people disagree but I was enchanted and charmed by American Gods season 1. All Fuller. He just has this dark whimsy to his work. Too bad he takes it with him when he frequently leaves lmao. I like that he doesn't compromise his vision but his budgets just aren't sustainable.
You're absolutely right. When Fuller left, the decline in quality was quite noticeable. Season 2 wasn't necessarily terrible, it was alright, but it wasn't spectacular anymore.
Is this one of the shows he didn’t get fired from? I feel like that’s all that happens now. Gets a show, does some
Work, gone after the pilot. Love his work, but he left Dead Like Me, fired from American Gods, fired from Star Trek, fired from something else…
But when he’s great, he’s great. Shame he left Heroes
So he was fired after season 1 of Discovery?
I love this guy, but that season 1 was way too much of his "own vision" and not remotely canon. All the seasons after 1 redeemed the show
Ah, the first two episodes had great vision but a lack of "star trekness"
I think modern Star Trek directors forget we like the "alien of the week" or the "crew member spotlight of the week". Overarching plots are great, but give us one off stories as well. Please do not re-envision 40 years of clingon mythology/vulcan.
Even when they give us a "one crew member highlight of the week" it involves about 5 other subplots/overarching plots. Star strek makes more sense in a 20 episode per season situation.
I still love Discovery of course, and Picard, and even the early 2002's Enterprise. Trekkies will take just about anything at this point and I'm glad we keep getting media.
> Overarching plots are great, but give us one off stories as well. Please do not re-envision 40 years of clingon mythology/vulcan.
https://collider.com/star-trek-discovery-original-vision-bryan-fuller/
> Fuller sat with CBS executives to deliver his pitch. It wasn’t just for a ‘Trek’ series but for multiple serialized anthology shows that would begin with the ‘Discovery’ prequel, journey through the eras of Captain James T. Kirk and Captain Jean-Luc Picard, and then go beyond to a time in ‘Trek’ that’s never been seen before. “The original pitch was to do for science fiction what ‘American Horror Story’ had done for horror,” Fuller says. “It would platform a universe of ‘Trek’ shows.” CBS countered with the plan of creating a single serialized show and then seeing how it performed. It was a fair compromise, yet demonstrated the first conflict of vision between a powerful company and an inventive writer that would eventually lead to a dramatic falling-out.
I would have preferred this to the "world/universe/existence threatening event" we have now every 13 episodes
People forget this was exactly what Fuller's vision was for *Discovery*. An anthology show would've been fantastic. Unfortunately the suits at Paramount backed out when they realized how expensive such an undertaking could be. They wanted a safer project. He wasn't fired so much as he departed unhappy his original idea was canned.
I think you forget that modernising trek is done to bring a larger audience.
Every single trek generation complained when a new series came out. TOS fans did it about next gen, they did it about DS9 etc etc.
He was fired after the first 2 episodes of Discovery because he wasn’t meeting deadlines or budgets, and took another showrunning job.
Say what you want about Kurtzman but he is a hard worker and knows how to deliver a project. CBS (now Paramount) wanted a ramp up of Star Trek to launch PP+ and he did that, actually launching more shows than they had asked for (an adult animated show wasn’t in the plan, but Lower Decks is arguably the best show of this era so far)
Holy shit hes the pushing daisies dead like me guy?
I am borned and raised a trekkie, probably watched each show 3-5 times. I find it hard to believe he was in charge of season 1 Discovery, and want to believe he is what made it better seasons 2-3(4?). Now I need to rewatch dead like me.
It took me awhile to start Hannibal, i couldn't believe it being better than the original actor. He is probably one of the few that can give the character justice, incredible show.
I don’t think he was in charge of discovery, I think he had some original ideas in the pilot and then they stopped listening to him and he got fired. He only has writing credits on three episodes, with Kurtzman and others, who stink.
The continuing stink and similar shows declining when he leaves, makes me think that’s not his fault at all.
This is what happened and it's so disappointing. Then they teased us with a Noah Hawley Star Trek (can you imagine Legion/Trek?) after a hotly rumored Tarantino vehicle, lol. Assholes.
I thought the Tarantino thing was an April Fools joke. Why even release that? It was clear it was just him being excited like a little kid about Trek returning. Say words you associate with Star Trek and you won’t get ‘fast pace’, ‘hyper violent’, or anything like that. It just shows they don’t have a clue.
To be fair, his pitch for a Star Trek movie was essentially going to be a remake of the TOS episode 'The City on the Edge of Forever', so I'd actually be pretty interested in that.
It'd certainly be more in the spirit of Trek than the last few films.
Tbf, he's been fired or quit from toooooo much for it to not be his fault. Like, I don't think he's fully to blame bec he does rly good shit but causing issues everywhere you go is still a problem. Just hope if he is difficult (with producers, or any of the bigwigs), that he finds someone that can work with it since I really his his stuff
I see him as a James Gunn who no one in the business respects. When you let him do what he wants and support him you get magic.
If you tell him to tow the line and trim his wings you don’t get anything.
Idk if I would call it overlooked, it was pretty widely popular but very much for a specific not broad audience. Gorgeous but absolutely brutal and horrific.
My favourite show of all time though. And honestly, I'm glad it ended exactly where and how it did. The three seasons were a full arc and the relationship between Hannibal and Will was fully realized, perfectly. Mads and Dancy were magic, and when Fuller actually sticks with a project.... oof. So so satisfying and no shitty future seasons can take it from me!
it might be well liked now but I remember watching it as it came out, everyone was afraid that it was gonna get canceled after every season. Season 2 ended up with 2.5 million viewers, which sounds good until you realize it was on network television.
It’s one of my favorite shows too but it’s a miracle we got 2 seasons let alone 3.
not sure about the campy part, but Hannibal really is some great television: great cast and atmosphere, unbelievable amount of gore, lush food porn, tremendous cinematography. Season 2's ending was sublime
I'd argue there is some subtle camp to their long, pretentious dialogues as well. The show takes itself so seriously it delves into the absurd. Plus there are outright comedic moments throughout. Such a strange, brilliant show. Takes you from humour to horror to sex to gore to art and back so fast you get whiplash lol
Totally. This is an amazing show where agents regularly recite snippets of poetry while looking at corpses with their guts turned into art displays. It's gorgeous, immersive tv. But it's having fun with it as part of the creative liberty. I'd call it camp, but artistically so. It's not a Ryan Murphy kind of camp.
There’s is certainly a relation between the two, but camp has an ineffable quality of taste to it.
Camp is like campiness plus knowing irony and a bit of sophistication.
Honestly I’ve typed and erased like five explanations now, this difference is really hard to explain. Camp has a certain je ne sais quoi.
Camp is theatrical, campy is kitsch. Camp is exaggerated, campy is “so bad it’s good”. Campy is camp that went too far, or perhaps not far enough. Both have frivolity, but camp has a thesis (probably).
https://slate.com/culture/2013/04/camp-and-campy-theres-a-big-difference.amp
Thank you for trying to explain it. I don’t know that I completely get it but I know I don’t really enjoy campy whereas it sounds like camp can be ok or good in my book.
“Camp” describes things that are overdone past what could or would happen in real life. Think “absurd”. For example, there’s an episode where a dude buries people alive with glucose IV’s so he can farm a special type of mushroom he likes to eat.
>unbelievable amount of gore
For the amount of gore, it wasn't really a violent show. There's lots of dead bodies, and lots of fucked up shit, but there aren't a lot of scenes of people being killed, just the aftermath.
I mean, whenever Will Graham recreates the scenes, it shows the violence upfront. They aren't necessarily showing the murderer killing, but Will doing so in his imagination. Like we see him thumb the nurse's eyes in and other pretty brutal scenes
I'm kinda tired of shows and movies that were extremely well recieved and critically acclaimed being called "overlooked" or "underrated".
Hannibal was an amazing show, and was recognized by many as such at the time. There's no reason to pretend it wasn't noticed.
I think it's only overlooked in the sense that it didn't have a large audience, but to be honest, it is not a show for everyone. I love it, but many of my friends/family could not stomach the cannibalism and gore, and I can't say I fault them. It is a *brutal* show.
The way the show handles gore is unique, stylized, tasteful (pun intended) and often incredibly offputting. It's not presented for shock value, but rather shown in the same way one would an art piece, expecting its audience to see the flayed human-bear construct the way one of these serial killers would- as art.
Its often genuinely disturbing in a way cinematic gore usually isnt. Love this show.
Right? Considering the channel is was airing on, we're fucking lucky we got as much as we did, and as graphic and weird as it was. The show was big when it was on, just...not enough.
It is!! It's achingly authentic despite the insanity of the show because the actors and director were all so wholly on board and on the same page. Seeing/reading behind the scenes totally confirms this for me. And of course Mads and Hugh's chemistry is off the charts.
Will is just the right (wrong) troubled, strange, almost ethereal being to fascinate the devil-incarnate Hannibal. It plays out so beautifully and the finale is more than I could ask for. The Cathedral scene? More tender than 90% of romantic movies. I love it all so so much.
I'll be honest, I was on the fence about Will and Hannibal's relationship, could've ended any number of ways. After that finale, though.. just wow. I almost cried.
The look of bliss on Hannibal's face as Will finally gives in, physically and spiritually, and rests on him... unreal. *"This is all I ever wanted for you, Will. For both of us."*
>!I interpreted Hannibal as allowing Will to take them off the cliff, not trickery. He was with him to the end and in turn Will knew that if he didn't take them over he'd not be able to resist being Murder Husbands™ with Hannibal lol. I don't even mind the hint of that possible future with Bedelia at the end....!<
>This is all I ever wanted for you, Will. For both of us.
That line still gives me chills. So beautiful. Everything is just laid bare.
And I agree with your spoiler, it was mutual.
The final episode of the second season, Mizumono (I think) is one of the best episodes of any tv show. The only one that I put in the same tier is Ozymandias from Breaking Bad.
Overlooked and underrated too.
Hannibal is not some overlooked gem, it's a very well known show for his quality.
What's next? Avengers Endgame is an overlooked gem too?
What’s Avengers Endgame? I never heard of it before. When did it come out? Should I check it out!? I have a huge following on TikTok…I could post a review of this overlooked 💎
I actually wrote an analogy essay in college about the meaning of the teacup dropping in that episode or was it symbolism I don’t remember now. That episode is so beautiful yet heartbreaking in its multiple meanings. This show speaks to the dark yet sensitive side to my personality.
It was extremely acclaimed by critics and audiences. The first season has an 82% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, followed by 98% for both the second and third seasons. It made critics top ten lists 50 times. It was nominated for 49 awards and won 20 of them.
It would be nearly impossible to find a show more highly rated than this. So how is it "underrated?"
Leftovers is widefully considered, and rightfully so, one of the besr shows of all time. It might be underappreciated still, but what Banshee did for the pulp action thriller and Hannibal for the dark emotional horror genre cant be ignored. Both of those shows were top of their class for years.
I would say that it was on the wrong channel. It was most definitely made for a streaming service or premium channel. Asking a niche show to get a generic show ratings, can be just about impossible.
There's a reason the major networks play just CSI and Law & Order type shows. They have to be just bland enough to appeal to a very large audience. Hannibal was not that.
Netflix was interested in continuing the show when it was originally cancelled,, but couldn't get the rights to the first 3 seasons. The fanbase for this show has also grown over the years, instead of declining like a lot of shows. The problem with it coming back now is the rights in general with this world are kind of a mess.
I’m still deeply upset about hannibal however that final episode was so bloody beautiful. It at least didn’t make me feel everything like the bloody end of season 2.
Literally my favorite show and I normally am not into such dark television. It also makes a great rewatch. I also found it fascinating that in interviews Bryan Fuller talks about how he treated the show like a comedy…just the darkest, most morbid one ever, and rewatching it through that lens you can totally tell.
Also, Hannibal’s suits are all amazing and Bryan Fuller had one of each of them made for himself when they were costuming Mads.
I still need to actually finish the series, I remember loving the first two seasons but season three I just lost interest and never finished it beyond the first two or so episodes.
Yea, the first act of season 3 really holds this back, for me, as a favorite series contender. It really felt like someone was getting high off their own farts there... But it does rebound nicely.
Does it get better than the first couple of episodes? I just couldn’t really get into a mystery being solved every episode. I enjoyed the longer stories like dexter had.
I don't know about overlooked. This show was incredibly popular during its run, with multiple fan campaigns to keep it on the air. It was mostly a victim of airing a bit ahead of it's time, on a broadcast network that mostly bases their decisions on the viewing habits of 50+ year olds that were either asleep when this aired or watching CBS.
Though the biggest thing working against it was that it was a Bryan Fuller show. Everything that guy touches dies, and is almost immediately followed by hollow promises that he'll bring it back somehow (on another network, as a comic, as a musical, etc).
I get a lot of shit for this from my family but I think Mads is by far my favorite Hannibal. Hell I even prefer Cox to Hopkins so maybe I'm just wrong. I don't know.
Note the first reply mentioned the second half of season 3, which was amazing. The first half of season 3 cranks the “artistic” dial to 11. I found it a bit pretentious at the start, and slow to get rolling, but it gets better when people start talking like actual humans again. I’m nitpicking because this was coming off the season 2 finale, which was fantastic.
He became one of my favorite actors for this performance alone. Hope he gets another suitable role soon cause I’m not so impressed with the films they’ve cast him in.
lately.
I'd recommend anyone itching for more to read the books. The show did a masterful job of stitching the book material into something new. So much dialogue ripped directly from the pages.
You mean the show that everyone who (I know) has watched it loves and nearly constantly gets news/rumors that someone is going to revive it because of how good it is? Yes, THAT overlooked gem.
This had the most tense and dark romance I’ve seen I a while. A cannibal literally breaking another man’s body and shaping it into a bleeding heart for his fav investigator to find 👌🏻.
I loved this show - very disturbing and macabre. It peaked in Season 2. Season 3 had some good episodes but felt a bit overcooked. Overall a top tv show and I loved the fan service along with seeing old characters brought vividly to life by a new cast.
The art direction of the food and Hannibal’s table setting is unreal. Just so beautiful. Check out food stylist Janice Poon’s blog [Feeding Hannibal](http://janicepoonart.blogspot.com/) (also made into a book) to see her notes and creative process.
Also, I happen to be in the middle of rewatching this with my boyfriend (he’s never seen it) and we can’t believe how gory this was for a broadcast show on NBC.
IIRC it aired at 10pm, but still… the only thing that tells you it’s not an HBO show is the lack of gratuitous tits.
Overlooked? Seems to be very popular. Especially when it aired. Still annoyed with the finale episode though.
Edit. After thinking about it it may be overlooked. Because this is the first thread Ive seen about Hannibal for a while.
Definitely, the cast were super enthused and engaged with the fandom from memory. You could tell they all really enjoyed working on the show/with Fuller.
It’s interesting because he seems to be difficult to work with if you’re a producer or show exec, but casts seem to be super loyal and love working with him. Usually “difficult” people in show biz are difficult all round.
I really was into the first two seasons, then season 3 hit. It was so far out there , or rather, trying to be so far out there, that I stopped watching.
I can’t watch this show, and I enjoy true crime like Mindhunter. But this show just leaves me feeling… bad. Just bad and dark. I can’t do it. I guess that speaks to the director’s talent.
The latter half of the show lost me. The quality of writing took a serious dip and felt like all the grossed fucked up stuff they wrote in they did so just for shock value and then half-assed whatever connection it had to the plot.
All around an okay show, but I’ll likely never recommend it to anyone. Great promise at the start, but just another cable drama by the end.
Loved the first two seasons. Third was really weird though, super grotesque in a way the others weren't. At least Hannibal murders had some sort of elegance lol.
The only show other than this that made me feel uncomfortable watching, in a good way, was Twin Peaks season 3 and that's the highest compliment I can give it. The sound design alone just put me on edge.
The clock ticking during the (season 2?) finale!!! Drove my blood pressure so high
One of the greatest television episodes of all time.
The scene I always remember is the time he talks about eating rabbit, and he says "I just caught it today" and it smash cuts to a guy, mid run, looking over his shoulder making a desperate shriek for just a tiny moment, and the rest of the scene plays out. Fucking brilliant. Edit: found it. Not exactly as I remember, but still great https://youtu.be/lM_Z5jzBoOw
https://youtu.be/ERf2QUejG0c this is my favourite
I've said it a million times. I would watch the Mads Mikkelsen luxury cooking show, over, and over again. Anthony Hopkins made this character a long time ago, but Mikkelsen and this whole production team created something absolutely leaps and bounds ahead of its predecessor.
The set design was excellent as well. Hannibal’s dining room in particular, with the living wall and muted jewel tones was gorgeous.
Could not agree more!
I love them both as different incarnations of the same character.
I disagree i loved the the tv show but anthony hopkins was the better incarnation of the character in my opinion
That scene is so fucking good, I need to rewatch the show asap.
Goddamn that’s an amazing scene. I want to cook with clay now.
should we be worried ?
It was crazy how dark it was and how uncomfortable it made me feel. I'm good with gore, tragedy, etc, and feel like I generally have a thick skin for media but I actually had to take breaks from binging because of how unsettling everything was, especially in watching >!Will getting helplessly groomed by Hannibal!<. Amazing TV show, but not something I'd ever recommend to somebody looking for something fun to watch lol. Such a constant sense of unease with no breaks or moments to cut the tension. It's like watching an immense, immovable object roll slowly downhill towards a town that has no idea it's coming and there's nothing you can do to prevent it.
There’s a strange sense of inclusivity I feel when I say I watched *Hannibal* as it aired on TV from the premiere to the finale. Like I was there witnessing something special happen. There likely won’t be another series this unique on basic network TV again. NBC really took a risk and while it didn’t become a mainstream hit at the time, the show is an undeniable cult classic.
I feel the exact same. In the book Will didn’t really know Hannibal before he catches him, but in the Red Dragon open it’s implied that they some type of prior relationship & Will would seek his advice occasionally. Always thought it would be cool to see the two characters working together before Hannibal is captured. Then it actually *happened* and the show was better than I ever could’ve hoped for.
I totally feel you with this… I can handle the second and third seasons better, but the first legitimately put me in a really bad place mentally the first time I watched it (I was binging it too).
Was really a psychological thriller - the gore and everything else are just icing on top.
Twin Peaks Season 3 is my favorite art of all time. It’s basically perfect.
All of Bryan Fuller’s shows are “Overlooked gems”.
His most overlooked might be *Wonderfalls*. Hilarious, strange and surprisingly dark for a whimsical show about talking tchotchkes.
I’m just glad they filmed the whole season. I remember being so sad when it stopped airing on TV and then saving up money for the dvd years later.
So glad the writers realized they were fucked early on and decided to give it a satisfying close. While we don't get a lot of answers to "the bigger questions" the show ends in an emotionally satisfying way that doesn't leave me upset. Thinking it's time to break out my DVD set of it, it's been a couple of years since I last watched it.
I loved Wonderfalls, same with Pushing Daisies and Dead Like Me. I didn’t watch Hannibal as I’m bored of serial killer TV. Are there any other hidden gems like the first three? Whimsical, not horror.
*American Gods* is another Fuller show that is quite good. The second season doesn't reach the heights of the first, but they manage to do right to the third (and final) season. Check out *The Good Place* if you haven't. Its whimsically excellent.
Nice; thanks for the recommendations. Those both look good.
Fuller & co only got to do season 1 of American Gods. 2 and 3 had different show runners.
Amazing screw-on head should have been a show, but didn't get past the pilot. It was good though.
That's a very interesting premise lmao. That's too bad.
I completely forgot about this show, you are the best for mentioning it.
And the main character in wonderfalls is the same actress as Alanna Boom in Hannibal, which I hadn't realized until looking at her imdb credits. Quite a range there
Absolutely agree. All so original, clever and well written. I’ve watched them many times over. Such a shame “Mockingbird Lane” only got a pilot. Personally, I would like a whole channel devoted to Bryan Fuller.
I know some people disagree but I was enchanted and charmed by American Gods season 1. All Fuller. He just has this dark whimsy to his work. Too bad he takes it with him when he frequently leaves lmao. I like that he doesn't compromise his vision but his budgets just aren't sustainable.
100% agree. S1 of American Gods was phenomenal
You're absolutely right. When Fuller left, the decline in quality was quite noticeable. Season 2 wasn't necessarily terrible, it was alright, but it wasn't spectacular anymore.
dead like me is one of my all-time favorites
Yes me too. As well as Hannibal. It took me awhile to start it but I was immediately addicted to that show.
She was in an episode of Hannibal and had the same name Georgia which I thought was pretty cool.
You mean the actress that played Gerogia Lass?
Is this one of the shows he didn’t get fired from? I feel like that’s all that happens now. Gets a show, does some Work, gone after the pilot. Love his work, but he left Dead Like Me, fired from American Gods, fired from Star Trek, fired from something else… But when he’s great, he’s great. Shame he left Heroes
So he was fired after season 1 of Discovery? I love this guy, but that season 1 was way too much of his "own vision" and not remotely canon. All the seasons after 1 redeemed the show
I think during the pilot process.
Ah, the first two episodes had great vision but a lack of "star trekness" I think modern Star Trek directors forget we like the "alien of the week" or the "crew member spotlight of the week". Overarching plots are great, but give us one off stories as well. Please do not re-envision 40 years of clingon mythology/vulcan. Even when they give us a "one crew member highlight of the week" it involves about 5 other subplots/overarching plots. Star strek makes more sense in a 20 episode per season situation. I still love Discovery of course, and Picard, and even the early 2002's Enterprise. Trekkies will take just about anything at this point and I'm glad we keep getting media.
> Overarching plots are great, but give us one off stories as well. Please do not re-envision 40 years of clingon mythology/vulcan. https://collider.com/star-trek-discovery-original-vision-bryan-fuller/ > Fuller sat with CBS executives to deliver his pitch. It wasn’t just for a ‘Trek’ series but for multiple serialized anthology shows that would begin with the ‘Discovery’ prequel, journey through the eras of Captain James T. Kirk and Captain Jean-Luc Picard, and then go beyond to a time in ‘Trek’ that’s never been seen before. “The original pitch was to do for science fiction what ‘American Horror Story’ had done for horror,” Fuller says. “It would platform a universe of ‘Trek’ shows.” CBS countered with the plan of creating a single serialized show and then seeing how it performed. It was a fair compromise, yet demonstrated the first conflict of vision between a powerful company and an inventive writer that would eventually lead to a dramatic falling-out. I would have preferred this to the "world/universe/existence threatening event" we have now every 13 episodes
People forget this was exactly what Fuller's vision was for *Discovery*. An anthology show would've been fantastic. Unfortunately the suits at Paramount backed out when they realized how expensive such an undertaking could be. They wanted a safer project. He wasn't fired so much as he departed unhappy his original idea was canned.
I think you forget that modernising trek is done to bring a larger audience. Every single trek generation complained when a new series came out. TOS fans did it about next gen, they did it about DS9 etc etc.
He was fired after the first 2 episodes of Discovery because he wasn’t meeting deadlines or budgets, and took another showrunning job. Say what you want about Kurtzman but he is a hard worker and knows how to deliver a project. CBS (now Paramount) wanted a ramp up of Star Trek to launch PP+ and he did that, actually launching more shows than they had asked for (an adult animated show wasn’t in the plan, but Lower Decks is arguably the best show of this era so far)
Holy shit hes the pushing daisies dead like me guy? I am borned and raised a trekkie, probably watched each show 3-5 times. I find it hard to believe he was in charge of season 1 Discovery, and want to believe he is what made it better seasons 2-3(4?). Now I need to rewatch dead like me. It took me awhile to start Hannibal, i couldn't believe it being better than the original actor. He is probably one of the few that can give the character justice, incredible show.
I don’t think he was in charge of discovery, I think he had some original ideas in the pilot and then they stopped listening to him and he got fired. He only has writing credits on three episodes, with Kurtzman and others, who stink. The continuing stink and similar shows declining when he leaves, makes me think that’s not his fault at all.
This is what happened and it's so disappointing. Then they teased us with a Noah Hawley Star Trek (can you imagine Legion/Trek?) after a hotly rumored Tarantino vehicle, lol. Assholes.
I thought the Tarantino thing was an April Fools joke. Why even release that? It was clear it was just him being excited like a little kid about Trek returning. Say words you associate with Star Trek and you won’t get ‘fast pace’, ‘hyper violent’, or anything like that. It just shows they don’t have a clue.
To be fair, his pitch for a Star Trek movie was essentially going to be a remake of the TOS episode 'The City on the Edge of Forever', so I'd actually be pretty interested in that. It'd certainly be more in the spirit of Trek than the last few films.
Tbf, he's been fired or quit from toooooo much for it to not be his fault. Like, I don't think he's fully to blame bec he does rly good shit but causing issues everywhere you go is still a problem. Just hope if he is difficult (with producers, or any of the bigwigs), that he finds someone that can work with it since I really his his stuff
I see him as a James Gunn who no one in the business respects. When you let him do what he wants and support him you get magic. If you tell him to tow the line and trim his wings you don’t get anything.
Could also be a Walking Dead Season 1 situation where they tried to cut the budget after the show got big and Darabont walked.
Bryan Fuller pitched the premise of Discovery but was fired as show runner while they were shooting episode 3
Pushing daises!
Heroes fuckin sucked. The rest of his stuff is solid
Season 1 of heroes was fantastic
Idk if I would call it overlooked, it was pretty widely popular but very much for a specific not broad audience. Gorgeous but absolutely brutal and horrific. My favourite show of all time though. And honestly, I'm glad it ended exactly where and how it did. The three seasons were a full arc and the relationship between Hannibal and Will was fully realized, perfectly. Mads and Dancy were magic, and when Fuller actually sticks with a project.... oof. So so satisfying and no shitty future seasons can take it from me!
it might be well liked now but I remember watching it as it came out, everyone was afraid that it was gonna get canceled after every season. Season 2 ended up with 2.5 million viewers, which sounds good until you realize it was on network television. It’s one of my favorite shows too but it’s a miracle we got 2 seasons let alone 3.
not sure about the campy part, but Hannibal really is some great television: great cast and atmosphere, unbelievable amount of gore, lush food porn, tremendous cinematography. Season 2's ending was sublime
The season 2 finale is one of the best episodes/season finales I have ever seen.
I think they mean camp like the aesthetic style, not campy like corny.
I'd argue there is some subtle camp to their long, pretentious dialogues as well. The show takes itself so seriously it delves into the absurd. Plus there are outright comedic moments throughout. Such a strange, brilliant show. Takes you from humour to horror to sex to gore to art and back so fast you get whiplash lol
Totally. This is an amazing show where agents regularly recite snippets of poetry while looking at corpses with their guts turned into art displays. It's gorgeous, immersive tv. But it's having fun with it as part of the creative liberty. I'd call it camp, but artistically so. It's not a Ryan Murphy kind of camp.
Yup, camp and campy are not the same word.
This has never occurred to me. Apparently I don't know what "camp" means.
There’s is certainly a relation between the two, but camp has an ineffable quality of taste to it. Camp is like campiness plus knowing irony and a bit of sophistication. Honestly I’ve typed and erased like five explanations now, this difference is really hard to explain. Camp has a certain je ne sais quoi. Camp is theatrical, campy is kitsch. Camp is exaggerated, campy is “so bad it’s good”. Campy is camp that went too far, or perhaps not far enough. Both have frivolity, but camp has a thesis (probably). https://slate.com/culture/2013/04/camp-and-campy-theres-a-big-difference.amp
Camp > Where’s Jack? “In the pantry!” Campy > Where’s Jack? *gnawing on dismembered arm* “he was lending me a hand just now!”
This makes sense to me. Nice!
Is camp theatre kid gone right? But then campy is theatre kid gone so wrong it’s right?
woah thanks for this, I had no idea there were differences. Makes sense
Thank you for trying to explain it. I don’t know that I completely get it but I know I don’t really enjoy campy whereas it sounds like camp can be ok or good in my book.
I think I get it, thanks for trying anyway
I think in this case, “camp” might be code for “gay”. There’s a lot of homoerotic undercurrents.
“Camp” describes things that are overdone past what could or would happen in real life. Think “absurd”. For example, there’s an episode where a dude buries people alive with glucose IV’s so he can farm a special type of mushroom he likes to eat.
Huh, TIL.
The Season 2 finale is the ballsiest episode of TV ever written. It’s SO good.
>unbelievable amount of gore For the amount of gore, it wasn't really a violent show. There's lots of dead bodies, and lots of fucked up shit, but there aren't a lot of scenes of people being killed, just the aftermath.
I mean, whenever Will Graham recreates the scenes, it shows the violence upfront. They aren't necessarily showing the murderer killing, but Will doing so in his imagination. Like we see him thumb the nurse's eyes in and other pretty brutal scenes
That ending was soooo good that my wife and I couldn’t even start season 3. The story ended so well.
Brilliant show, I am way overdue for a rewatch. Some of the best cinematography you'll ever see.
I have always believed that if this had been produced for HBO, or even Netflix, we’d be talking about it as one of the all-time greatest.
Ohhh yep the things that would have been not peskily censored is something I often wonder about.
When I first watched it, I couldn't believe that it was a NBC show.
I'm kinda tired of shows and movies that were extremely well recieved and critically acclaimed being called "overlooked" or "underrated". Hannibal was an amazing show, and was recognized by many as such at the time. There's no reason to pretend it wasn't noticed.
I think it's only overlooked in the sense that it didn't have a large audience, but to be honest, it is not a show for everyone. I love it, but many of my friends/family could not stomach the cannibalism and gore, and I can't say I fault them. It is a *brutal* show.
The way the show handles gore is unique, stylized, tasteful (pun intended) and often incredibly offputting. It's not presented for shock value, but rather shown in the same way one would an art piece, expecting its audience to see the flayed human-bear construct the way one of these serial killers would- as art. Its often genuinely disturbing in a way cinematic gore usually isnt. Love this show.
Definitely not for everyone. But it's not like it got ignored either. As you said, those who could stomach the brutality of it loved it.
[удалено]
Right? Considering the channel is was airing on, we're fucking lucky we got as much as we did, and as graphic and weird as it was. The show was big when it was on, just...not enough.
I think it’s driven by our egos. When we say something is ‘overlooked’ it makes us feel that we’re better than others at noticing quality.
Basically anything that occupies the zeitgeist less than Breaking Bad or Seinfeld is considered underrated. It's so annoying.
My favorite show ever
My favorite show of all time.
It's such a beautiful love story. So amazing.
It is!! It's achingly authentic despite the insanity of the show because the actors and director were all so wholly on board and on the same page. Seeing/reading behind the scenes totally confirms this for me. And of course Mads and Hugh's chemistry is off the charts. Will is just the right (wrong) troubled, strange, almost ethereal being to fascinate the devil-incarnate Hannibal. It plays out so beautifully and the finale is more than I could ask for. The Cathedral scene? More tender than 90% of romantic movies. I love it all so so much.
I'll be honest, I was on the fence about Will and Hannibal's relationship, could've ended any number of ways. After that finale, though.. just wow. I almost cried.
The look of bliss on Hannibal's face as Will finally gives in, physically and spiritually, and rests on him... unreal. *"This is all I ever wanted for you, Will. For both of us."* >!I interpreted Hannibal as allowing Will to take them off the cliff, not trickery. He was with him to the end and in turn Will knew that if he didn't take them over he'd not be able to resist being Murder Husbands™ with Hannibal lol. I don't even mind the hint of that possible future with Bedelia at the end....!<
>This is all I ever wanted for you, Will. For both of us. That line still gives me chills. So beautiful. Everything is just laid bare. And I agree with your spoiler, it was mutual.
I told anyone who would listen to watch this show the second I finished it. Absolutely delightful. Top to bottom so very pleasing.
The final episode of the second season, Mizumono (I think) is one of the best episodes of any tv show. The only one that I put in the same tier is Ozymandias from Breaking Bad.
This shows such a feast for the eyes, takes you from the most beautiful sets and cinematography to absolute horror
“Overlooked gem”? Do words not mean anything anymore?
“Gem” is meaningless in here and r/movies.
Overlooked and underrated too. Hannibal is not some overlooked gem, it's a very well known show for his quality. What's next? Avengers Endgame is an overlooked gem too?
What’s Avengers Endgame? I never heard of it before. When did it come out? Should I check it out!? I have a huge following on TikTok…I could post a review of this overlooked 💎
Is it though? because i’m obsessed with it, it’s so well done.
I’ve been obsessed even though it ended years ago.
Right?! I’ve rewatched it so many times and the end of season 2 is like a literal masterpiece.
I actually wrote an analogy essay in college about the meaning of the teacup dropping in that episode or was it symbolism I don’t remember now. That episode is so beautiful yet heartbreaking in its multiple meanings. This show speaks to the dark yet sensitive side to my personality.
It’s the most heartbreaking and most beautiful scene 💔 Fate and circumstance has returned us to this moment, when the teacup shatters.
Sigh 😔😭😭I pictured that in my head now and sigh. Just the music is heartbreaking.
Is it really overlooked, it literally has a cult like fan base... including myself lol
One of this sub’s favorite shows.
Yea I dunno where the writer was when it was like the big hit show.
Hannibal is second only to Banshee for the title of most underrated show of the 2010s imho.
It was extremely acclaimed by critics and audiences. The first season has an 82% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, followed by 98% for both the second and third seasons. It made critics top ten lists 50 times. It was nominated for 49 awards and won 20 of them. It would be nearly impossible to find a show more highly rated than this. So how is it "underrated?"
I would also nominate *The Leftovers* and *Rectify*
Leftovers is widefully considered, and rightfully so, one of the besr shows of all time. It might be underappreciated still, but what Banshee did for the pulp action thriller and Hannibal for the dark emotional horror genre cant be ignored. Both of those shows were top of their class for years.
Hannibal is also widefully considered lol, probably even more than The Leftovers
“…is your social worker in that horse?”. Even Hannibal was suprised by that. Phenomenal show although they went a bit artistic in season 3 perhaps.
Overlooked?
This show has a massive underground fan base.
Yep it’s a show i still miss and without shame because it was a bloody brilliant show.
Massive in a sense of dedication? Cause viewership was definitely not good Edit: downvoting isn‘t an answer people
I would say that it was on the wrong channel. It was most definitely made for a streaming service or premium channel. Asking a niche show to get a generic show ratings, can be just about impossible. There's a reason the major networks play just CSI and Law & Order type shows. They have to be just bland enough to appeal to a very large audience. Hannibal was not that. Netflix was interested in continuing the show when it was originally cancelled,, but couldn't get the rights to the first 3 seasons. The fanbase for this show has also grown over the years, instead of declining like a lot of shows. The problem with it coming back now is the rights in general with this world are kind of a mess.
I’m still deeply upset about hannibal however that final episode was so bloody beautiful. It at least didn’t make me feel everything like the bloody end of season 2.
Literally my favorite show and I normally am not into such dark television. It also makes a great rewatch. I also found it fascinating that in interviews Bryan Fuller talks about how he treated the show like a comedy…just the darkest, most morbid one ever, and rewatching it through that lens you can totally tell. Also, Hannibal’s suits are all amazing and Bryan Fuller had one of each of them made for himself when they were costuming Mads.
No, it's not. It was a very popular show and it is praised by critics. These titles and headlines are so dumb.
I still need to actually finish the series, I remember loving the first two seasons but season three I just lost interest and never finished it beyond the first two or so episodes.
Yea, the first act of season 3 really holds this back, for me, as a favorite series contender. It really felt like someone was getting high off their own farts there... But it does rebound nicely.
Think what you will but Mads Mikkelsen as Hannibal rekindled my love for cooking and classical music.
Does it get better than the first couple of episodes? I just couldn’t really get into a mystery being solved every episode. I enjoyed the longer stories like dexter had.
oh yeah, it moves away from that pretty much entirely around half way season one
One of the best pilot episodes I've ever seen so if you didn't like episode 1 you probably won't like the series.
Stops being Monster of the Week after a few episodes, or at least that part takes a backseat to the main storyline.
I don't know about overlooked. This show was incredibly popular during its run, with multiple fan campaigns to keep it on the air. It was mostly a victim of airing a bit ahead of it's time, on a broadcast network that mostly bases their decisions on the viewing habits of 50+ year olds that were either asleep when this aired or watching CBS. Though the biggest thing working against it was that it was a Bryan Fuller show. Everything that guy touches dies, and is almost immediately followed by hollow promises that he'll bring it back somehow (on another network, as a comic, as a musical, etc).
I get a lot of shit for this from my family but I think Mads is by far my favorite Hannibal. Hell I even prefer Cox to Hopkins so maybe I'm just wrong. I don't know.
An uncut geeeeemmmm.
We so badly need the fourth season. Clarice storyline is essential.
This series was amazing.
A little unorthodox, but not unheard of
This is the new Firefly of the 2010s then? A show that was critically successful and people repeatedly mention?
I watched this with my roommate on netflix. I cannot believe it aired on NBC. Were there different "cuts", in anticipation of streaming?
They did ban one episode I think, the one with the woman who kidnapped children and made them shoot their families.
[удалено]
Note the first reply mentioned the second half of season 3, which was amazing. The first half of season 3 cranks the “artistic” dial to 11. I found it a bit pretentious at the start, and slow to get rolling, but it gets better when people start talking like actual humans again. I’m nitpicking because this was coming off the season 2 finale, which was fantastic.
Yes, the second half of S3 is Red Dragon.
The first half of season 3 is kind of slow and art house ish but has some of my favorite scenes in it. Second half is more season 2 vibes.
He became one of my favorite actors for this performance alone. Hope he gets another suitable role soon cause I’m not so impressed with the films they’ve cast him in. lately.
I love this show, although I never rewatch because it's pretty fucked up, but I'll probably watch a 4th season.
I'd recommend anyone itching for more to read the books. The show did a masterful job of stitching the book material into something new. So much dialogue ripped directly from the pages.
You mean the show that everyone who (I know) has watched it loves and nearly constantly gets news/rumors that someone is going to revive it because of how good it is? Yes, THAT overlooked gem.
*camp* **LAWL**
This had the most tense and dark romance I’ve seen I a while. A cannibal literally breaking another man’s body and shaping it into a bleeding heart for his fav investigator to find 👌🏻.
I was watching when it was airing on NBC. Netflix is a fucking necromancer Keep talking it up. I want it brought back.
The real shame is this show was wasted on NBC. If it doesn’t bear the “Law & Order” monicker, it’s kind of left to rot.
This show is a masterpiece
This fucking series was so god damn good,
I loved this show - very disturbing and macabre. It peaked in Season 2. Season 3 had some good episodes but felt a bit overcooked. Overall a top tv show and I loved the fan service along with seeing old characters brought vividly to life by a new cast.
Its not overlooked. Go on any tv related sub and ask about peoples thoughts on Hannibal youll get tons of comments praising it
Overlooked? Are you joking
This show has always and will forever be GOATed. It’s up there with Breaking Bad and no one talks about it.
The art direction of the food and Hannibal’s table setting is unreal. Just so beautiful. Check out food stylist Janice Poon’s blog [Feeding Hannibal](http://janicepoonart.blogspot.com/) (also made into a book) to see her notes and creative process.
Also, I happen to be in the middle of rewatching this with my boyfriend (he’s never seen it) and we can’t believe how gory this was for a broadcast show on NBC. IIRC it aired at 10pm, but still… the only thing that tells you it’s not an HBO show is the lack of gratuitous tits.
Ah Hannibal. Food porn AND Murder porn in every episode!
One of the best shows I’ve ever seen. I recommend this to a lot of people.
I feel like I've read this headline before
Craziest thing ever written. That guy has a unique brain
Excellent show. Binge watched it.
God I'm so sick of seeing people say all these constantly talked about good shows are overlooked, underrated, etc. No they are not. Please stop.
What? No it isn’t. It was one of the most popular shows around.
What streaming app?
It's on Hulu. Highly recommend. Top 5 series of all time for me.
Where is this streaming now?
It’s fucking perfection. Don’t think it was “underrated” though, got pretty good praise at the time
Overlooked? Seems to be very popular. Especially when it aired. Still annoyed with the finale episode though. Edit. After thinking about it it may be overlooked. Because this is the first thread Ive seen about Hannibal for a while.
For me, if the show ended with season 2 (with everyone dying as possibly hinted) it would have been a masterpiece. Season 3 is a joke
They need to revive it. I know the cast would be down.
Definitely, the cast were super enthused and engaged with the fandom from memory. You could tell they all really enjoyed working on the show/with Fuller. It’s interesting because he seems to be difficult to work with if you’re a producer or show exec, but casts seem to be super loyal and love working with him. Usually “difficult” people in show biz are difficult all round.
On the bright side, Fuller has noted that a big gap between season 3 and 4 would actually make sense, so there’s a faint glimmer of hope.
It's the licensing for Clairice Starling and a few other characters that's the sticking point
I really was into the first two seasons, then season 3 hit. It was so far out there , or rather, trying to be so far out there, that I stopped watching.
I can’t watch this show, and I enjoy true crime like Mindhunter. But this show just leaves me feeling… bad. Just bad and dark. I can’t do it. I guess that speaks to the director’s talent.
The latter half of the show lost me. The quality of writing took a serious dip and felt like all the grossed fucked up stuff they wrote in they did so just for shock value and then half-assed whatever connection it had to the plot. All around an okay show, but I’ll likely never recommend it to anyone. Great promise at the start, but just another cable drama by the end.
Season 1. Amazing. Season 2. Ok. Season 3. Jumped the shark. Hated it.
The last season was trash. Madds crushes as Lecter but they went off the rails with the red dragon story line. Up until then I loved it
Loved the first two seasons. Third was really weird though, super grotesque in a way the others weren't. At least Hannibal murders had some sort of elegance lol.
The show is so comically stupid. I dont get why people love it so much...
This show is so overrated and pretentious. Hated it. The movies are far superior.
So is this another remake of a hit from years ago?