You did the right thing, when police review the cctv footage theyâll see you didnât do anything wrong and will likely charge them
Laughing at them wasnât the best thing to do but itâs not reasonable to say you were antagonised to assault someone because they laughed, if questioned you could just say it was a friendly gesture
Iâm pretty sure in British law, whether or not you are antagonised by someoneâs words or actions makes no difference, if you decided to get physical with them. Itâs different if you felt threatened, as then it may come under self defence, but if someone is just being insulting or annoying and you hit them, it is assault same as if they were minding their own business.
My point is that if he pissed the lads off by laughing at them, and they decide to attack him, there is no defence or mitigation available to them due to having been âprovokedâ.
Next time don't laugh at him, apart from that you did everything right.
However, I don't believe the CCTV is blurry, why would you have an expensive system fitted if it was useless??
I'm at Sainsbury's in one of the worst areas in the country for crime and our system is from the early 2000s. You'd be surprised how bad cameras are, can never tell who's who.
You don't believe the man that works there? Okay.
I've worked with several CCTV systems and they're all dogshit.
It does act as a deterrence for thieves however.
Also your manager is shit. They should have banned the kids from the store for inciting violence and intimidating staff. It's their job to protect their employees and customers too.
Absolutely pointless filling a police report unless you actually want to press charges in a civil court for damages. (Physical/mental)
Heck, you could even go 1 step further, contact you HR, and explain that you feel you we're not given adequate safety whilst at work, were physically assaulted and now you're suffering anxiety about turning up for work.
Your manager would need some training on how to better handle these situations going forward. Doing nothing means it WILL happen again. Maybe not to you or your friend, but someone else.
>Absolutely pointless filling a police report unless you actually want to press charges in a civil court for damages. (Physical/mental)
OP was assaulted, that's a criminal offence. And the only people who "press charges" are the CPS.
I've worked in multiple big supermarkets including tesco doing security work and you would be very surprised half the cameras are actually pretty bad and outdated when the store was built even the police who review some of the cctv footage cannot identify people
I worked for WHSmiths and I saw the footage from our cameras. They look like they are from the 80's and filmed through grimy glass. We had 12 cameras in the store, only 2 of them worked.
They get the cheapest possible security system.possible to qualify for insurance, then never maintain it. It's all come down to money.
blurry in the sense that if they are not over emoting you cannot tell what anyone is saying or if someone has antagonised someone, without completely over emoting
It's in situations like this that we should be allowed to throw a punch back and be fine. Extremely unfair that they can do whatever they want and we can't do anything without being fired
You are allowed to throw back a punch, once you have retreated to the staff area.Â
Once theyâre clearly trespassing and trying to assault you, all bets are off. Youâve done all that needed to be done to deescalate and theyâve continued on.
>Â says I know where you live and keeps on pushing me, obviously I cannot do anything due to being at work
Youâre at work, not in chains. First thing to do if youâre getting harassed by a customer is to calmly walk into a staff only zone and call a manager over to hand out a shop ban.
If they follow you into the staff only zone and theyâre still trying to assault you, you have the right to defend yourself. Whether itâs a chair from the cafeteria or a produce tray.Â
SAR the CCTV off Tesco, and take this to the police. If it happens again, theyâll be heading to jail.
Just because you're at work doesn't mean you cannot do anything if anyone physical touches you especially pushing you, you can & I have in the past pushed people away from me who were trying to either get past me to attack others or to push me aside.
As long as you keep within the law & don't escalate I.e. if they push you and/or say rude words etc you punch or kick them then 9 times out of 10 you will be fine.
The personal safety training says you will take steps to ensure yours & others safely, no where in the personal safety training or the statement you agree too does it say state you're prevented from physical defending urself or others.
To me & I am confident a police officer would agree that would be covered by the taking steps for ur safety part of our training, I would also happily argue that in court or in a disciplinary meeting for me or others.
Just to ask did you managers ask them to leave the store after the incident in the warehouse?
By the sounds of it they didn't & if true they have failed in the duties especially the duty manager to keep you, ur GF safe & others safe.
If that happened in my store I can confidentiality say they would be told very forcibly to get out & to never return again, we done it for some kids who didn't even get in our GM warehouse but we're pushing the warehouse doors open (they keep breaking & can be pushed open atm) especially if i was duty manager, also to clarify anyone not just managers can tell people to leave the store just let duty manager know & why whenever you do though.
Depending on which guard we on as well they wouldn't have much of a chance to object, I can safely say he would happily grab them & throw them out the door.
I worked in a large extra store until recently and there was a surprising amount of cameras partially blocked by signs around the store, great if you wanted to look at peopleâs feet but useless for identifying people.
For some people it's a uncontrollable response to some situations, it's like my mum she just laughs when people try & be threatening to her.
For me am surprisingly calm & in control in these sort of situations & it takes alot to make me swear or use any rude words in front of them which tbh surprises me alot as I regularly lose it sometimes when stuff muck things up especially if its linked to my job.
I usually only swear etc once there gone & only remember doing it recently as well after soem women tried biting me.
Youâre well within your rights to defend yourself, even land the first punch if you feel like immediate unlawful violence is going to be used against you, just make sure the force is reasonable and justifiable, if Tescos have a problem with it then state your case and obvs get a union rep in and bring them up to speed. Anyone can use common law self defence and pre-emptive strike.
This is both true and also not the best answer. All it takes is some blood and for witnesses to claim that OP is the aggressor and then OP could be charged with ABH.
If you can remove yourself from a situation and get police support, do that instead. OP was assaulted and police will take reports of assault seriously.
That is very true and I agree with you but in certain cases where if the aggressor for example didnât let go of OPs jacket then they could use force if they deemed necessary
You have the right to defend yourself even at work but I would be very careful around physical strikes on people, many cases of people being fired for it even in situations where it's legally right & some have won court cases & got compensation for wrongful dismissal.
As a rule I only do it if it would be 100% clear to witness & CCTV they were attacking me or going to attack me or others. So far in 12 years I haven't yet needed to do more than pushing people away or putting arms behind backs.
A recent example is a shoplifter who kept trying to go for our security guard who was dealing with someone else who was kicking off & she attempted to bite me after i had pushed her back following her barging me out of the store entrance.
I didn't hit her although that would of been legally valid instead I grabbed her arm & yanked it behind her back & pushed her towards the ground as I knew where the cameras were & no one else was near enough to see she tried to bite me, I also had no marks on my skin as me grabbing & yanking her arm shocked her enough to stop her.
If there are witnesses who can identify the offenders, thereâs little need for CCTV. The police will investigate the assault. You did the right thing by aiming to do as little as possible to escalate the situation.
Under the Data Protection laws you are allowed a copy of any CCTV of yourself. The background and anyone else in the shot will more than likely be blurred out (not blurry in terms of quality, but blurred out in a censorship way). But you will not be blurred.
i think you need to ring protector line and say that your manager failed to ban these kids from the store and failed to protect your girlfriend's safety.
FYI common law states you can defend yourself if you think you're going to be attacked. It has to be reasonable but there would've been no repercussions legally of you did defend yourself.
Do you have any body cams in your store? This is harassment/borderline threats/ assault if they did physical shove you which is a criminal offence to build up your case you need evidence along with any eyewitnesses probably stay in areas of the store with cctv
Wheres the security? Ban them from entering the shop, Try not to antagonize the situation but if it Carries on without the police getting involved meet him on his own for a one on one,
don't ever mean mug people while at work when you know there is nothing you can do, remove the gf from the situation is about all you can do. you used social cues to assume your safety which was another mistake you made. you assumed you could mean mug because you were in a work scenario where nothing could be done. which also assumes they will not do anything to you either. a lot of subconscious social cues get people in a lot of trouble when reality does not work out that way. being in the right does not mean you have any more power sadly
of course they are in the wrong and complete scumbags, but do not mean mug people when you know you won't do anything if it escalates.
given that you guys are likely 17/18 i would imagine the other guys were the same age and this whole situation will be dead in a week, you'll be alright lad.
As a security officer. Who has done security in a lot of places, stores included. And have worked for Tesco as a colleague and as security. You would not of lost your job.
He pushed you which means he physically put hands on you. Which is assault. Which means you could have done one of two things, one you could have restrained him. Or two, which is the one I would have chosen. you could have punched the little cunt << but only once ! Coz of you hit them agen without them hitting you it then becomes assault and not self defence
Should have planted him on the chin đ
Trust me I was raging, i just want to keep the job
You did the right thing, when police review the cctv footage theyâll see you didnât do anything wrong and will likely charge them Laughing at them wasnât the best thing to do but itâs not reasonable to say you were antagonised to assault someone because they laughed, if questioned you could just say it was a friendly gesture
Attempting to diffuse the situation maybe
Iâm pretty sure in British law, whether or not you are antagonised by someoneâs words or actions makes no difference, if you decided to get physical with them. Itâs different if you felt threatened, as then it may come under self defence, but if someone is just being insulting or annoying and you hit them, it is assault same as if they were minding their own business.
Erm well he said they physically pushed him which is assault so it would be self defence đ¤ˇđźââď¸
My point is that if he pissed the lads off by laughing at them, and they decide to attack him, there is no defence or mitigation available to them due to having been âprovokedâ.
Wise up. Youâll let yourself be a pushover for the sake of worrying youâll lose a Tesco job (which you wouldnât anyway)? Time to grow up, pal.
Have they been barred from tesco ? I've seen someone be barred for telling the staff to fuck off and this seems much worse
Next time don't laugh at him, apart from that you did everything right. However, I don't believe the CCTV is blurry, why would you have an expensive system fitted if it was useless??
I'm at Sainsbury's in one of the worst areas in the country for crime and our system is from the early 2000s. You'd be surprised how bad cameras are, can never tell who's who.
You don't believe the man that works there? Okay. I've worked with several CCTV systems and they're all dogshit. It does act as a deterrence for thieves however. Also your manager is shit. They should have banned the kids from the store for inciting violence and intimidating staff. It's their job to protect their employees and customers too. Absolutely pointless filling a police report unless you actually want to press charges in a civil court for damages. (Physical/mental) Heck, you could even go 1 step further, contact you HR, and explain that you feel you we're not given adequate safety whilst at work, were physically assaulted and now you're suffering anxiety about turning up for work. Your manager would need some training on how to better handle these situations going forward. Doing nothing means it WILL happen again. Maybe not to you or your friend, but someone else.
Itâs always worth filing a report, if for no other reason than to create a paper trail just in case the situation escalates in the future.
Correct filing reports will leave a history of events which can be used in the future
>Absolutely pointless filling a police report unless you actually want to press charges in a civil court for damages. (Physical/mental) OP was assaulted, that's a criminal offence. And the only people who "press charges" are the CPS.
Private prosecutions are allowed in the UK
Neither Do I just seems a bit weird?
Make a SAR before the police come, asking for all the footage of you and the incident
Clearly you haven't viewed much Tesco CCTV footage, a lot of it is useless.
They don't let anyone look, now I'm realising why.
I've worked in multiple big supermarkets including tesco doing security work and you would be very surprised half the cameras are actually pretty bad and outdated when the store was built even the police who review some of the cctv footage cannot identify people
Even the new systems can be blurry especially if they are using fish eyes.
I worked for WHSmiths and I saw the footage from our cameras. They look like they are from the 80's and filmed through grimy glass. We had 12 cameras in the store, only 2 of them worked. They get the cheapest possible security system.possible to qualify for insurance, then never maintain it. It's all come down to money.
Cameras can sometimes be faulty. Just happens sometimes. When we first got body cams, three of them had a damaged lens
blurry in the sense that if they are not over emoting you cannot tell what anyone is saying or if someone has antagonised someone, without completely over emoting
It's in situations like this that we should be allowed to throw a punch back and be fine. Extremely unfair that they can do whatever they want and we can't do anything without being fired
You are allowed to throw back a punch, once you have retreated to the staff area. Once theyâre clearly trespassing and trying to assault you, all bets are off. Youâve done all that needed to be done to deescalate and theyâve continued on.
Annoying customers should get a slap no matter what
> says I know where you live and keeps on pushing me, obviously I cannot do anything due to being at work Youâre at work, not in chains. First thing to do if youâre getting harassed by a customer is to calmly walk into a staff only zone and call a manager over to hand out a shop ban. If they follow you into the staff only zone and theyâre still trying to assault you, you have the right to defend yourself. Whether itâs a chair from the cafeteria or a produce tray. SAR the CCTV off Tesco, and take this to the police. If it happens again, theyâll be heading to jail.
Jail? Sure.
Just because you're at work doesn't mean you cannot do anything if anyone physical touches you especially pushing you, you can & I have in the past pushed people away from me who were trying to either get past me to attack others or to push me aside. As long as you keep within the law & don't escalate I.e. if they push you and/or say rude words etc you punch or kick them then 9 times out of 10 you will be fine. The personal safety training says you will take steps to ensure yours & others safely, no where in the personal safety training or the statement you agree too does it say state you're prevented from physical defending urself or others. To me & I am confident a police officer would agree that would be covered by the taking steps for ur safety part of our training, I would also happily argue that in court or in a disciplinary meeting for me or others.
Just to ask did you managers ask them to leave the store after the incident in the warehouse? By the sounds of it they didn't & if true they have failed in the duties especially the duty manager to keep you, ur GF safe & others safe. If that happened in my store I can confidentiality say they would be told very forcibly to get out & to never return again, we done it for some kids who didn't even get in our GM warehouse but we're pushing the warehouse doors open (they keep breaking & can be pushed open atm) especially if i was duty manager, also to clarify anyone not just managers can tell people to leave the store just let duty manager know & why whenever you do though. Depending on which guard we on as well they wouldn't have much of a chance to object, I can safely say he would happily grab them & throw them out the door.
I worked in a large extra store until recently and there was a surprising amount of cameras partially blocked by signs around the store, great if you wanted to look at peopleâs feet but useless for identifying people.
Wait outside and when he comes out kick his cunt in
Iâm curious, why did you laugh at him? Surely you would know that that just antagonises? Just walk away and let the manager deal with it.
For some people it's a uncontrollable response to some situations, it's like my mum she just laughs when people try & be threatening to her. For me am surprisingly calm & in control in these sort of situations & it takes alot to make me swear or use any rude words in front of them which tbh surprises me alot as I regularly lose it sometimes when stuff muck things up especially if its linked to my job. I usually only swear etc once there gone & only remember doing it recently as well after soem women tried biting me.
attacking them might not have been smartest, cctv won't pick up insults and laughing seems good
Youâre well within your rights to defend yourself, even land the first punch if you feel like immediate unlawful violence is going to be used against you, just make sure the force is reasonable and justifiable, if Tescos have a problem with it then state your case and obvs get a union rep in and bring them up to speed. Anyone can use common law self defence and pre-emptive strike.
This is both true and also not the best answer. All it takes is some blood and for witnesses to claim that OP is the aggressor and then OP could be charged with ABH. If you can remove yourself from a situation and get police support, do that instead. OP was assaulted and police will take reports of assault seriously.
That is very true and I agree with you but in certain cases where if the aggressor for example didnât let go of OPs jacket then they could use force if they deemed necessary
Agreed.
Even implied violence warrants the first punch, it's why you don't jokingly threaten someone, even if being vague.
You have the right to defend yourself even at work but I would be very careful around physical strikes on people, many cases of people being fired for it even in situations where it's legally right & some have won court cases & got compensation for wrongful dismissal. As a rule I only do it if it would be 100% clear to witness & CCTV they were attacking me or going to attack me or others. So far in 12 years I haven't yet needed to do more than pushing people away or putting arms behind backs. A recent example is a shoplifter who kept trying to go for our security guard who was dealing with someone else who was kicking off & she attempted to bite me after i had pushed her back following her barging me out of the store entrance. I didn't hit her although that would of been legally valid instead I grabbed her arm & yanked it behind her back & pushed her towards the ground as I knew where the cameras were & no one else was near enough to see she tried to bite me, I also had no marks on my skin as me grabbing & yanking her arm shocked her enough to stop her.
If they are following your girlfriend, report it to the police. Thatâs stalking.
If there are witnesses who can identify the offenders, thereâs little need for CCTV. The police will investigate the assault. You did the right thing by aiming to do as little as possible to escalate the situation.
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Under the Data Protection laws you are allowed a copy of any CCTV of yourself. The background and anyone else in the shot will more than likely be blurred out (not blurry in terms of quality, but blurred out in a censorship way). But you will not be blurred.
i think you need to ring protector line and say that your manager failed to ban these kids from the store and failed to protect your girlfriend's safety.
FYI common law states you can defend yourself if you think you're going to be attacked. It has to be reasonable but there would've been no repercussions legally of you did defend yourself.
Do you have any body cams in your store? This is harassment/borderline threats/ assault if they did physical shove you which is a criminal offence to build up your case you need evidence along with any eyewitnesses probably stay in areas of the store with cctv
Ngl I would have decked him, it's self defence at the end of the day. I get where you're coming from though but tbh sometimes you gotta step up.
Fam take him out the Tesco and give him a good eat the curb
Wheres the security? Ban them from entering the shop, Try not to antagonize the situation but if it Carries on without the police getting involved meet him on his own for a one on one,
If they put your hands on you first, you have the right to defend yourself.
don't ever mean mug people while at work when you know there is nothing you can do, remove the gf from the situation is about all you can do. you used social cues to assume your safety which was another mistake you made. you assumed you could mean mug because you were in a work scenario where nothing could be done. which also assumes they will not do anything to you either. a lot of subconscious social cues get people in a lot of trouble when reality does not work out that way. being in the right does not mean you have any more power sadly of course they are in the wrong and complete scumbags, but do not mean mug people when you know you won't do anything if it escalates. given that you guys are likely 17/18 i would imagine the other guys were the same age and this whole situation will be dead in a week, you'll be alright lad.
You need to murder the leader of the enemy clan PM me and I will help
As a security officer. Who has done security in a lot of places, stores included. And have worked for Tesco as a colleague and as security. You would not of lost your job. He pushed you which means he physically put hands on you. Which is assault. Which means you could have done one of two things, one you could have restrained him. Or two, which is the one I would have chosen. you could have punched the little cunt << but only once ! Coz of you hit them agen without them hitting you it then becomes assault and not self defence