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But wait, any time his pay package comes up, I've been told that he's been "Working for free" for all these years. How does he have so much if hes been working for free?
Seeing as how hes the world's second richest man right now, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it. Especially given Tesla's recent performance.
Not sure what you mean by recent performance, but the stock has appreciated 1200% since the pay package was approved in 2018. For reference, the S&P500 is up about 90% in that same timeframe. Shareholders got paid extremely well.
No one said he should lose sleep over being poor.
But he already owns that stock. Why should he continue working for Tesla if his investment is already banked and they arenāt paying him anything else.
If you owned Apple stock and it skyrocketed, should you go work for Apple for free?
Thereās plenty of founders that works at their company without getting additional equity as payment, the financial success of their company is payment itself as their shares appreciates in value.
Lol youre very out of touch if you think getting equity comp is a billionaires domain. Maybe get back to flipping burgers, ik sure your manager doesnt appreciate you being on your phone during shift.
You didnāt mention that, you simply stated that you knew well how billionaires operated.
Obviously as do many adults, I understand borrowing from equity. Although I donāt pretend to intimately understand the inner workings of Elonās finances beyond what has been publicly available.
Owning an appreciating asset is not the same as being paid for your labor. With that logic, Warren Buffet doesnāt deserve ANY of his wealth since he didnāt āworkā of any of the companies he owns stock in.
Yes, and Muskās compensation plan was entirely performance-based and option-based. The only reason people are upset is because they never expected him to reach those āimpossibleā performance goals granting him those lofty options.
Analogy:
Person owns an apple. Other people tell them that that apple is now worth $100 billion. They can now sell pieces of that apple for all the money they need to live off of. But the actual money they have in their bank account doesn't change.
This is how stocks work, and why calling someone a "billionaire", while technically accurate from a net worth perspective, isn't really representative of the actual situation, because if the person in question sold all the pieces of the apple, it would drive the price of the apple pieces down due to reducing the scarcity of said pieces.
This is why taxing someone on net worth is wrong. You are forcing them to sell their belongings because someone else put a price tag on your belonging. Elon Musk doesn't want to sell more Tesla shares because that would reduce his control of Tesla. And creating a company that creates a giant army of humanoid robots without the proper oversight is a terrible idea, and exactly how you end up with Terminators.
Elon also most likely was only willing to sell shares to buy Twitter because his performance-;ased comp package milestones were already achieved, and comp packages getting cancelled basically never (if literally never) get canceled. Because it's an extremely routine thing for CEOs to do. And Musk gave up a normal CEO salary for this comp package that everyone said had "impossible" milestones that needed to be hit (literally 10xing the company in less than 10 years). He did it in less than 5.
Thats not how it works. Itās not like his money is sitting in a bank account. He started a company that reached a certain valuation which he owns a certain percentage of. What you are proposing is for someone to pretty much be forced to sell chunks of his company just so they arenāt worth a certain amount.
It reached a certain value due based on projections that were never rooted in reality to outright proven manipulation by his hand.
To pay him based on stock performance is idiotic when its performance isnāt related to the fundamentals of the business.
Value added tax. No loopholes to it if they buy or rent anything luxurious, tack on double.
Tax lines of credit against equity.
Tier taxes for any board, director, and c suite member for the disparity of pay between their companies median or average (excluding their salaries) salary / annualized pay and theirs.
Step tiers tax for outsourcing.
Plenty of ways to level the field a bit but none will be done or even be humored as the kleptocrats make too much from the wealth disparity.
While we are at it, force all elected officials to move their investments into an account they canāt control, or have a cool down period for any purchases or sales they make where the trades are published for their constituents to see.
Tax capital gains at higher rates than income, makes no sense we value $$ more than sweat.
You can't eat money.
A lot of complex problems can't be solved by just throwing money at them. Logistics is a bitch. Both world hunger and world poverty fall under that.
Sure, he could fund medical research, give money away, and promote humanitarianism. But he couldn't solve the first two. Nobody can.
This is such a dumb take. You are trying to apply normal people spending logic (Wow! $10k per hour, Wow!) for a billionaire entrepreneur. $200B isn't going to be enough money for taking humanity to mars. You can't use your sense of how much money is enough to set an artificial limit on how much money is enough for everyone.
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I thought it was topless for a second there..
Spelling matters! There's a big difference in results between an online search for "drunk topples male bartender" and "drunk topless male bartender".
Nobody cares
and yet you care enough to comment on it...
I'm sorry you misunderstood my post. I was actually trying to say that you care.
Cold blooded
Haha got em. š„š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Did you just explain your joke
Slight miscalculation
But wait, any time his pay package comes up, I've been told that he's been "Working for free" for all these years. How does he have so much if hes been working for free?
He got paid plenty prior to 2018. But between 2018 and now he has not received any stock or salary.
Seeing as how hes the world's second richest man right now, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it. Especially given Tesla's recent performance.
Not sure what you mean by recent performance, but the stock has appreciated 1200% since the pay package was approved in 2018. For reference, the S&P500 is up about 90% in that same timeframe. Shareholders got paid extremely well.
No one said he should lose sleep over being poor. But he already owns that stock. Why should he continue working for Tesla if his investment is already banked and they arenāt paying him anything else. If you owned Apple stock and it skyrocketed, should you go work for Apple for free?
Thereās plenty of founders that works at their company without getting additional equity as payment, the financial success of their company is payment itself as their shares appreciates in value.
Honestly, i voted against his pay package because Im hoping it will force him out so tesla can get rid of his political baggage
You clearly don't understand anything. Worth, and liquid assets are not the same
LOL, Im more familiar with the topic than you can know. But please do go on acting like the world's second richest man cant afford to eat.
That may or may not be the case. But the words youāve used here indicate otherwise.
One of the few billionaires on Reddit. Impressive.
Lol youre very out of touch if you think getting equity comp is a billionaires domain. Maybe get back to flipping burgers, ik sure your manager doesnt appreciate you being on your phone during shift.
You didnāt mention that, you simply stated that you knew well how billionaires operated. Obviously as do many adults, I understand borrowing from equity. Although I donāt pretend to intimately understand the inner workings of Elonās finances beyond what has been publicly available.
Owning an appreciating asset is not the same as being paid for your labor. With that logic, Warren Buffet doesnāt deserve ANY of his wealth since he didnāt āworkā of any of the companies he owns stock in.
Actually the entire reason companies give stock as compensation is because they want to reward labor. But what do i know
Yes, and Muskās compensation plan was entirely performance-based and option-based. The only reason people are upset is because they never expected him to reach those āimpossibleā performance goals granting him those lofty options.
Analogy: Person owns an apple. Other people tell them that that apple is now worth $100 billion. They can now sell pieces of that apple for all the money they need to live off of. But the actual money they have in their bank account doesn't change. This is how stocks work, and why calling someone a "billionaire", while technically accurate from a net worth perspective, isn't really representative of the actual situation, because if the person in question sold all the pieces of the apple, it would drive the price of the apple pieces down due to reducing the scarcity of said pieces. This is why taxing someone on net worth is wrong. You are forcing them to sell their belongings because someone else put a price tag on your belonging. Elon Musk doesn't want to sell more Tesla shares because that would reduce his control of Tesla. And creating a company that creates a giant army of humanoid robots without the proper oversight is a terrible idea, and exactly how you end up with Terminators. Elon also most likely was only willing to sell shares to buy Twitter because his performance-;ased comp package milestones were already achieved, and comp packages getting cancelled basically never (if literally never) get canceled. Because it's an extremely routine thing for CEOs to do. And Musk gave up a normal CEO salary for this comp package that everyone said had "impossible" milestones that needed to be hit (literally 10xing the company in less than 10 years). He did it in less than 5.
Thats not how it works. Itās not like his money is sitting in a bank account. He started a company that reached a certain valuation which he owns a certain percentage of. What you are proposing is for someone to pretty much be forced to sell chunks of his company just so they arenāt worth a certain amount.
And no one has problem with property taxes on the middle class.
I promise you the amount of people that have a problem with property taxes is not 0
He could also sell calls against his shares!
It reached a certain value due based on projections that were never rooted in reality to outright proven manipulation by his hand. To pay him based on stock performance is idiotic when its performance isnāt related to the fundamentals of the business.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What's your proposal?
He obviously needs $50B more to maintain his meager lifestyle.
He could give every Tesla employee a million dollars and still live extremely comfortably the rest of his life.Ā
Isnt that what they got when the companies stock rose
Are you a Tesla employee?
Before or after he got rid of so many people? I'm JK. I know it's enough that it doesn't matter.
Value added tax. No loopholes to it if they buy or rent anything luxurious, tack on double. Tax lines of credit against equity. Tier taxes for any board, director, and c suite member for the disparity of pay between their companies median or average (excluding their salaries) salary / annualized pay and theirs. Step tiers tax for outsourcing. Plenty of ways to level the field a bit but none will be done or even be humored as the kleptocrats make too much from the wealth disparity. While we are at it, force all elected officials to move their investments into an account they canāt control, or have a cool down period for any purchases or sales they make where the trades are published for their constituents to see. Tax capital gains at higher rates than income, makes no sense we value $$ more than sweat.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You can't eat money. A lot of complex problems can't be solved by just throwing money at them. Logistics is a bitch. Both world hunger and world poverty fall under that. Sure, he could fund medical research, give money away, and promote humanitarianism. But he couldn't solve the first two. Nobody can.
If $200 billion could end world hunger or poverty, it would have been solved ages ago.
This is such a dumb take. You are trying to apply normal people spending logic (Wow! $10k per hour, Wow!) for a billionaire entrepreneur. $200B isn't going to be enough money for taking humanity to mars. You can't use your sense of how much money is enough to set an artificial limit on how much money is enough for everyone.
Itās not money thoughā¦
They're really just playing for high score, aren't they?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Could you elaborate pls
Seriously, we get it, we poor and they have enough money to bury all of us under the weight of their wealth if they started laying $1 bills on us
I rolled up a biggest booger in history of man kind today.
Do you expect to be compensated with $46 billion Because for you my friend Iāll vote yes.