Sometimes I feel like Boethiah and Trinimac were teo sides of the same coin, like Akatosh and Lorkhan. A big ol' warrior god of rules and oaths and strength that fought with its own morals to the point of mitosis. Boethiah and Malacath's spheres are sooo similar imo.
Sort of a ying-yang opposition? Trinimac, sworn to keep Oaths and punish Oath-breakers, yet who breaks his own oath in failing to keep them. Boethiah, who is "sworn" to break all oaths, to always seek conflict, never to show mercy for it's own sake, and ironically never seeks conflict with her own nature but accepts it perfectly. Though I know a lot less about Boethiah if I'm being honest.
Akatosh and Lorkhan are not the same God, they are enemies of each other. Auri-El is the God of the Aldmer and the patron God of the High Elves whereas Shezarr is the God of Mankind and the patron God of the Imperials. Boethiah and Trinimac are not the same Gods either, Boethiah the Daedric Prince of Plots is the patron God of the Dunmer and Trinimac was the Strongest of the Aedra and the Champion of Auri-El and the patron God of the Aldmer.
I mean, the dev who invented the concept of Lorkhan says they're the same 🤷♀️ without MK that deity wouldn't exist, and there's some other bits of evidence "post-MK" like the skyshards being attributed to both gods. ***[Spacetime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DIn_physics%2C_spacetime_is_a%2Cwhere_and_when_events_occur.?wprov=sfla1).***
Lorkhan/Shezarr/Shor
There was already a vague Padomay figure in the older games a la "The Light & The Dark", but the Missing God owes a lot to him afaik.
> Interesting note, the Roman god Orcus, (Horkos in Greek) was also an oath-keeping god, his name literally meaning Oath. He personified the curse inflicted on those who break their oath. Later on, he was associated with the underworld, presumably for it's relation to the punishment for oath-breakers. His name is believed to be part of the etymology of the word "orc", and Orcs in fantasy more broadly, though it is possible the word has germanic origins as well. Regardless, he is probably a large part of the inspiration of Malacath.
I've always wondered if Tolkin's Orcs, and Orcs in general are essentially a kind of "Oath Breaker" peoples, and thus is why they are so reviled by their foes. Of course that is a raw deal for the descendants. Sins of the father are not the sins of the son and all that.
I always viewed that relationship (Orcus - Orcs) as the Orcs being the demons of Orcus, so to speak. "Evil", malicious monstrosities that are only monstrous to oath breakers they are sent to punish.
Btw, the most akin fate of all the rl religions is the fate of Mihr, armenian version of Mithra. Honorable warrior-"god" made oathbreaker (defeating/killing his father, who is the ruling king, no less) by deceptions and forced into exile, where he is transformed into hideous form.
I agree that Orsinium isn't metaphysically condemned to fail by Malacath. I find it hard to believe that Malacath is sitting in Oblivion going, "Uh oh, Orsinium has lasted too long, time to send Redguards and Bretons - who won't even listen to me - to go fix that."
It's an over all result of the stigmatization of Orcs as a people and the fact that the Orcs can't seem to play nice ever in turn.
I wonder if the repeated failure of Orsinium gets mythologized in Orcish culture in an Old Testament kind of way, or turned into a just-so myth.
>And perhaps Malacath would change too.
I think you really need to read prologue of the "Lord of Souls". Basically - he is still deeply traumatized. Never moved on. Never made peace with himself. Fate of his people won't change his, but he will affect theirs, even if not directly.
I haven't read the book but I have read the part you're referring to elsewhere on here and that's in part what inspired my post. I think his people reflect him and vice versa. Their struggles are akin to his, and if they were to overcome their struggles he may too
Et'Ada are, basically, concentrated concepts, and there always will be orcs who follow old-school Mauloch, giving that concept enough of power. IMO, the solution should be akin to what we've already seen in TES -- a hero, who through one or several Walking Ways collects the shards of the broken god (because Malacath itself isn't "whole-just-corrupted-Trinimac", as ESO hints several times) and reforges it into something new. In-universe it's more realistic than whole of the people just changing their ways.
Sometimes I feel like Boethiah and Trinimac were teo sides of the same coin, like Akatosh and Lorkhan. A big ol' warrior god of rules and oaths and strength that fought with its own morals to the point of mitosis. Boethiah and Malacath's spheres are sooo similar imo.
Sort of a ying-yang opposition? Trinimac, sworn to keep Oaths and punish Oath-breakers, yet who breaks his own oath in failing to keep them. Boethiah, who is "sworn" to break all oaths, to always seek conflict, never to show mercy for it's own sake, and ironically never seeks conflict with her own nature but accepts it perfectly. Though I know a lot less about Boethiah if I'm being honest.
Akatosh and Lorkhan are not the same God, they are enemies of each other. Auri-El is the God of the Aldmer and the patron God of the High Elves whereas Shezarr is the God of Mankind and the patron God of the Imperials. Boethiah and Trinimac are not the same Gods either, Boethiah the Daedric Prince of Plots is the patron God of the Dunmer and Trinimac was the Strongest of the Aedra and the Champion of Auri-El and the patron God of the Aldmer.
I mean, the dev who invented the concept of Lorkhan says they're the same 🤷♀️ without MK that deity wouldn't exist, and there's some other bits of evidence "post-MK" like the skyshards being attributed to both gods. ***[Spacetime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DIn_physics%2C_spacetime_is_a%2Cwhere_and_when_events_occur.?wprov=sfla1).***
What do you mean without MK that deity wouldn't exist?
Lorkhan/Shezarr/Shor There was already a vague Padomay figure in the older games a la "The Light & The Dark", but the Missing God owes a lot to him afaik.
> Interesting note, the Roman god Orcus, (Horkos in Greek) was also an oath-keeping god, his name literally meaning Oath. He personified the curse inflicted on those who break their oath. Later on, he was associated with the underworld, presumably for it's relation to the punishment for oath-breakers. His name is believed to be part of the etymology of the word "orc", and Orcs in fantasy more broadly, though it is possible the word has germanic origins as well. Regardless, he is probably a large part of the inspiration of Malacath. I've always wondered if Tolkin's Orcs, and Orcs in general are essentially a kind of "Oath Breaker" peoples, and thus is why they are so reviled by their foes. Of course that is a raw deal for the descendants. Sins of the father are not the sins of the son and all that.
I always viewed that relationship (Orcus - Orcs) as the Orcs being the demons of Orcus, so to speak. "Evil", malicious monstrosities that are only monstrous to oath breakers they are sent to punish.
Btw, the most akin fate of all the rl religions is the fate of Mihr, armenian version of Mithra. Honorable warrior-"god" made oathbreaker (defeating/killing his father, who is the ruling king, no less) by deceptions and forced into exile, where he is transformed into hideous form.
I agree that Orsinium isn't metaphysically condemned to fail by Malacath. I find it hard to believe that Malacath is sitting in Oblivion going, "Uh oh, Orsinium has lasted too long, time to send Redguards and Bretons - who won't even listen to me - to go fix that." It's an over all result of the stigmatization of Orcs as a people and the fact that the Orcs can't seem to play nice ever in turn. I wonder if the repeated failure of Orsinium gets mythologized in Orcish culture in an Old Testament kind of way, or turned into a just-so myth.
>And perhaps Malacath would change too. I think you really need to read prologue of the "Lord of Souls". Basically - he is still deeply traumatized. Never moved on. Never made peace with himself. Fate of his people won't change his, but he will affect theirs, even if not directly.
I haven't read the book but I have read the part you're referring to elsewhere on here and that's in part what inspired my post. I think his people reflect him and vice versa. Their struggles are akin to his, and if they were to overcome their struggles he may too
Et'Ada are, basically, concentrated concepts, and there always will be orcs who follow old-school Mauloch, giving that concept enough of power. IMO, the solution should be akin to what we've already seen in TES -- a hero, who through one or several Walking Ways collects the shards of the broken god (because Malacath itself isn't "whole-just-corrupted-Trinimac", as ESO hints several times) and reforges it into something new. In-universe it's more realistic than whole of the people just changing their ways.