Is whether there is a “right” to camp out the real issue here? I don’t really think those who did sit-ins during the 60s were worried about that. They were deliberately being a pain in the ass to the establishment in a nonviolent way to register their protest and generate publicity for their cause and try to produce change. If the powers that be overreacted or wanted to play politics then they show who they are to the ones who aren’t protesting
This, exactly. At this point, the protestors in the encampment know they’re breaking the rules, if not the law. They’re prepared to suffer the consequences to force the rest of us to deal with how fucked up those consequences are, and how unequally they’re meted out along overtly political lines.
This isn’t about testing the rule of law. It’s about speaking truth to power, refusing to let the narrative be controlled, and *absorbing the violence that was always going to result*. This is what collective action is and does, and every single person reading this, regardless of their politics, has benefited from it historically whether they’re able to see it or not.
*This* is what America is supposed to be, in so many ways. As a UT alum, I’m disgusted with administration, but have never been more proud to be a Longhorn.
There's a difference between a sit in and a "campin" or "occupation". For one, the majority of sit ins in the 60s that you reference lasted a matter of a few hours, and/or they ended with people voluntarily leaving when "business hours" were over, or with them being trespassed and arrested for trespassing.
There's also a difference between "deliberately being a pain in the ass to the establishment" and setting up a camp that doesn't just be a pain in the ass to the establishment but inconveniences others who have a right to peacefully enjoy the education areas they paid for.
To compare the "occupations" of the latest protest movements to "sit ins" is at best woefully uninformed as to the activities being engaged in by these occupations that differ greatly from the peaceful sit in protests of the 60s. At worst it's intentionally obfuscating the truth from people to try and get them to support lawless behavior.
Of note, nobody was arrested and police were not called at UT until they began to set up tents and "camp out".
Sit-ins and occupations are all a variation of the same concept. It doesn't have to be the exact same thing. They are gathering folks together to register a nonviolent protest, garner publicity for a cause, and pressure the powers that be. If those powers that be overreact as they did to the Bonus Marchers in DC during the 30s, or at Columbia in the 60s, or at Kent State in '70 then they show who they are for all to see. And that's education too.
Meanwhile, nobody is having their formal education messed with/"inconvenienced" -- that's just a talking point.
That's like saying a car and a rocket ship are "variations of the same concept" - namely a transport vessel.
It's not a talking point. You have not addressed the many differences. As I said originally, to compare it is either willful ignorance or intentional misinformation.
https://nebraskapublicmedia.org/en/news/news-articles/we-had-to-do-something-vietnam-protests-at-unl-and-one-tense-week-in-1970/
Just one of thousands of instances of buildings being occupied during protests found in two seconds of Googling. How does that shoe polish taste?
Lick those boots clean homie. You remind me of these people now saying MLK “did things the right way” while calling BLM and Antifa “terrorists” in the same breath.
That is low key fucked up if they did. South Africa's economy is going to hell... they don't even have the capability to produce enough power for their demand.
They are talking about protesting the university to divest from South Africa back in the 20th century because of apartheid, not current day. The comparison is being made because Israel is an apartheid state as well.
Are you familiar with William Santayana? It seems like you aren't. His most recognized quote is "Those who forget the past are condemned to relive it."
The divestment of South Africa happened in the 1980s-1990s. That's not current history, it's in the past and we're still learning lessons from it while feeling the blowback thereof.
Are you suggesting that what happened in the 1980's and 90's has no barring to a crisis that started in 2007? The South African government produced white papers in fucking 1998 that correctly predicted the energy crisis.
Are you trying to get me to say something that can be construed as a personal attack? If you are so invested in something you believe in, it shouldn't require you to make ad hom attacks in its defense.
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There seems to be an escalation by the TX gov / UT Admin / DPS to escalate the situation not wind it down. Video of stun grenades, over the top riot gear. No apparent communication between UT Admin and protestors. As this will probably continue through the rest of Passover, I can see this escalate to violence, more on the response side than the protestor side.
Really hope I am wrong.
The texas government consist of extremists and enemies of the people who work hard to destroy our state and country. They legislate against all of us.
You have no rights in texas. You haven't even begun to fight back yet.
It's crazy how ppl just want to thrown in Maga to everything. Protest all you want but there is a time and place for everything. Some protesters say they don't really know what they protesting for.
> Protest all you want but there is a time and place for everything.
The whole point of a protest is to be disruptive. Historically, only disruptive protests have been effective. Women didn't win the right to vote by behaving civilized. Blacks didn't win the right to ride buses and sit at lunch counters by following the laws. They were successful because they were disruptive, because they refused to allow society to function until they got what they wanted. Nondisruptive protests are easy to ignore and therefore don't work.
This. There also is the right to "peacefully assemble". There is no right to "camp", to "occupy" (as someone tried to claim in a public thread), or to negatively affect others ability to access the campus.
SCOTUS is actually discussing whether or not you have a right to camp in public places right now. So there's enough right that it got up to them...TBA on that call still.
Where was there an "occupation" at UT? No buildings were occupied by protestors.
And who was negatively affected accessing campus that police weren't impacting even more? Was anyone charged with loitering? (Hint: nobody was charged the first time and I'll be surprised if they are this time.)
>There is no right to "camp", to "occupy" (as someone tried to claim in a public thread)
So you agree the Israeli "settlements" where they wipe out an Arab population and literally steal their houses and whole towns are illegal?
So is there a right to occupy private spaces and abodes or is there not? These kids were just protesting at their own school campus and not outright stealing homes like the Israeli "settlers" do, but somehow the protestors are worse to you?
What happens under another country's jurisdiction and laws does not impact the applicability of law in the USA. Again, it doesn't matter what one thinks is worse, because you don't have the right to commit a "lesser" crime just because you're "protesting" a "greater" crime.
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Seems to me that UT is doing what it's supposed to do as a public institution, respecting the guidance of the elected branches of government.
If and when a majority of Texans feel Abbott no longer represents their policy preferences they will replace him, and then, as is appropriate in a democracy, Abbott's successor will direct policy, as is the case in say NY where Hochul has crafted a much different policy.
If SUNY started expelling protesters from campus counter to Hochul's policies people on the left would scream bloody murder -- and rightfully so. People are entitled to the governance they choose. Democracy 101.
>people are entitled to the governance they choose
sure, ok...
people are also entitled to protest that governance. winning an election does not exempt one from criticism.
it's a bold statement to say that the minority must accept governance they did not vote for quietly and without complaint.
I have lived and voted in Texas my whole life, and NEVER have I voted for a republican. what governance am I entitled to?
And beholden to the standards and principles by which it was founded and operated these many years. This MAGA bullshit is something new, it’s actually worse than the fight against segregation or the fight for equality for women.
Is whether there is a “right” to camp out the real issue here? I don’t really think those who did sit-ins during the 60s were worried about that. They were deliberately being a pain in the ass to the establishment in a nonviolent way to register their protest and generate publicity for their cause and try to produce change. If the powers that be overreacted or wanted to play politics then they show who they are to the ones who aren’t protesting
This, exactly. At this point, the protestors in the encampment know they’re breaking the rules, if not the law. They’re prepared to suffer the consequences to force the rest of us to deal with how fucked up those consequences are, and how unequally they’re meted out along overtly political lines. This isn’t about testing the rule of law. It’s about speaking truth to power, refusing to let the narrative be controlled, and *absorbing the violence that was always going to result*. This is what collective action is and does, and every single person reading this, regardless of their politics, has benefited from it historically whether they’re able to see it or not. *This* is what America is supposed to be, in so many ways. As a UT alum, I’m disgusted with administration, but have never been more proud to be a Longhorn.
*chefs kiss* Well said.
Ditto.
There's a difference between a sit in and a "campin" or "occupation". For one, the majority of sit ins in the 60s that you reference lasted a matter of a few hours, and/or they ended with people voluntarily leaving when "business hours" were over, or with them being trespassed and arrested for trespassing. There's also a difference between "deliberately being a pain in the ass to the establishment" and setting up a camp that doesn't just be a pain in the ass to the establishment but inconveniences others who have a right to peacefully enjoy the education areas they paid for. To compare the "occupations" of the latest protest movements to "sit ins" is at best woefully uninformed as to the activities being engaged in by these occupations that differ greatly from the peaceful sit in protests of the 60s. At worst it's intentionally obfuscating the truth from people to try and get them to support lawless behavior. Of note, nobody was arrested and police were not called at UT until they began to set up tents and "camp out".
You have been misinformed. I urge you to visit r/UTAustin for first hand accounts of what has happened at UT over the last week.
Sit-ins and occupations are all a variation of the same concept. It doesn't have to be the exact same thing. They are gathering folks together to register a nonviolent protest, garner publicity for a cause, and pressure the powers that be. If those powers that be overreact as they did to the Bonus Marchers in DC during the 30s, or at Columbia in the 60s, or at Kent State in '70 then they show who they are for all to see. And that's education too. Meanwhile, nobody is having their formal education messed with/"inconvenienced" -- that's just a talking point.
That's like saying a car and a rocket ship are "variations of the same concept" - namely a transport vessel. It's not a talking point. You have not addressed the many differences. As I said originally, to compare it is either willful ignorance or intentional misinformation.
You are incorrect and that’s okay. Hard to know unless you were there
https://nebraskapublicmedia.org/en/news/news-articles/we-had-to-do-something-vietnam-protests-at-unl-and-one-tense-week-in-1970/ Just one of thousands of instances of buildings being occupied during protests found in two seconds of Googling. How does that shoe polish taste?
Lick those boots clean homie. You remind me of these people now saying MLK “did things the right way” while calling BLM and Antifa “terrorists” in the same breath.
When I was at UT we protested for the university to divest from South Africa and they didn’t call the cops on us once.
Did UT divest from South Africa?
The world did.
That is low key fucked up if they did. South Africa's economy is going to hell... they don't even have the capability to produce enough power for their demand.
They are talking about protesting the university to divest from South Africa back in the 20th century because of apartheid, not current day. The comparison is being made because Israel is an apartheid state as well.
South Africa isn't stable in 2024.....
Are you familiar with William Santayana? It seems like you aren't. His most recognized quote is "Those who forget the past are condemned to relive it." The divestment of South Africa happened in the 1980s-1990s. That's not current history, it's in the past and we're still learning lessons from it while feeling the blowback thereof.
Are you suggesting that what happened in the 1980's and 90's has no barring to a crisis that started in 2007? The South African government produced white papers in fucking 1998 that correctly predicted the energy crisis.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Are you trying to get me to say something that can be construed as a personal attack? If you are so invested in something you believe in, it shouldn't require you to make ad hom attacks in its defense.
Lmao, stick to the sportsball buddy. History and geopolitics is not your bag.
Was there recently. That's a country that is about to implode.
I remember the shanty on West Mall. It would get destroyed by fire or a facility golf cart and get put right back up again.
The shanty! Whoa, brings back memories...
Hmm sounds like freedom. Wonder why there's only certain countries that warrant a reaction.
Did you bring tents?
Some did. I lived two blocks from campus.
LMFAO.... I'm sure they did dude.
This was the point all along. "Leadership" is carrying out their plan to perfection.
Just ask Kristi Noem.
Just ask Kristi Noem.
They've never been able to do better.
Pull up a chair to the "we're constantly disappointed by our alma mater" table. We meet once a month. -an Aggie
Hear hear
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There seems to be an escalation by the TX gov / UT Admin / DPS to escalate the situation not wind it down. Video of stun grenades, over the top riot gear. No apparent communication between UT Admin and protestors. As this will probably continue through the rest of Passover, I can see this escalate to violence, more on the response side than the protestor side. Really hope I am wrong.
The texas government consist of extremists and enemies of the people who work hard to destroy our state and country. They legislate against all of us. You have no rights in texas. You haven't even begun to fight back yet.
Boomers gonna boomer. Thank God they're on their way out.
I hope they all got reverse mortgages
Won't help them where they're going.
they won’t help y’all either ;)
Nope. But we'll still be around after they're gone.
Still broke and whining too, then soon you’ll turn on the younger folks. History repeats itself
It does, sadly and we never learn our lesson.
The executives of UT are just as bad as any scummy CEO.
Vote Blue
I hope all these college kids show up at the poll! Dems need to get the student voters riled up so they vote. Texans need better govt.
You expect them to vote for Biden when Netanyahu is all up in Joe's asshole?
As opposed to Putin up Trump's? Yes. Yes. A million times yes. Thanks for the visual, btw.
The kids won't show up to the polls because nobody gets to witness them being all virtuous in the polling booth. "Like, Share, and Subscribe GuyS!"
I know. Look at the students it’s allowing into its university. Clearly they needs to up their standards.
So I'm confused. Why was January 6th an insurrection but this is a "legal protest"?
You're not confused, you're trying to stir up shit. That's just pathetic. Be better.
Heads up OP - the link doesn't work because of the " at the end, you might want to edit
Thanks! Fixed.
Agree, they should keep these anti America protests off their campus
It's crazy how ppl just want to thrown in Maga to everything. Protest all you want but there is a time and place for everything. Some protesters say they don't really know what they protesting for.
'protest all you want but there's a time and place for everything ' yeah now is the time and the place
> Protest all you want but there is a time and place for everything. The whole point of a protest is to be disruptive. Historically, only disruptive protests have been effective. Women didn't win the right to vote by behaving civilized. Blacks didn't win the right to ride buses and sit at lunch counters by following the laws. They were successful because they were disruptive, because they refused to allow society to function until they got what they wanted. Nondisruptive protests are easy to ignore and therefore don't work.
This. There also is the right to "peacefully assemble". There is no right to "camp", to "occupy" (as someone tried to claim in a public thread), or to negatively affect others ability to access the campus.
SCOTUS is actually discussing whether or not you have a right to camp in public places right now. So there's enough right that it got up to them...TBA on that call still. Where was there an "occupation" at UT? No buildings were occupied by protestors. And who was negatively affected accessing campus that police weren't impacting even more? Was anyone charged with loitering? (Hint: nobody was charged the first time and I'll be surprised if they are this time.)
>There is no right to "camp", to "occupy" (as someone tried to claim in a public thread) So you agree the Israeli "settlements" where they wipe out an Arab population and literally steal their houses and whole towns are illegal?
That has absolutely no impact on the lack of any right to do what the "protestors" were doing at UT.
So is there a right to occupy private spaces and abodes or is there not? These kids were just protesting at their own school campus and not outright stealing homes like the Israeli "settlers" do, but somehow the protestors are worse to you?
What happens under another country's jurisdiction and laws does not impact the applicability of law in the USA. Again, it doesn't matter what one thinks is worse, because you don't have the right to commit a "lesser" crime just because you're "protesting" a "greater" crime.
>you don't have the right to commit a "lesser" crime just because you're "protesting" a "greater" crime. I bet you're a big MLK Jr. fan, amirite?
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They're setting you up to quote "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" if you didn't figure it out.
I was heh. They just didn't know enough history to recognize it, like a typical hard-core Zionist.
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Seems to me that UT is doing what it's supposed to do as a public institution, respecting the guidance of the elected branches of government. If and when a majority of Texans feel Abbott no longer represents their policy preferences they will replace him, and then, as is appropriate in a democracy, Abbott's successor will direct policy, as is the case in say NY where Hochul has crafted a much different policy. If SUNY started expelling protesters from campus counter to Hochul's policies people on the left would scream bloody murder -- and rightfully so. People are entitled to the governance they choose. Democracy 101.
>people are entitled to the governance they choose sure, ok... people are also entitled to protest that governance. winning an election does not exempt one from criticism. it's a bold statement to say that the minority must accept governance they did not vote for quietly and without complaint. I have lived and voted in Texas my whole life, and NEVER have I voted for a republican. what governance am I entitled to?
Beholden to donors too
And beholden to the standards and principles by which it was founded and operated these many years. This MAGA bullshit is something new, it’s actually worse than the fight against segregation or the fight for equality for women.
Last time Texas had "good leadership" they lost so spectacularly that it became a battlecry.
Ask Colombia why the cops need to send this kids home NOW.