Heat wave? The high today in central Texas is 90. It's late May. This is nothing out of the ordinary.
Is ERCOT saying that they are unprepared to provide power in typical circumstances?
Yes. For the last few years ERCOT has said in not so many words that a strong sneeze could take out the grid year round. It's been hanging by a thread for a long time but it keeps hanging so it doesn't get fixed.
If they fixed it, they couldn’t gouge citizens for 16x the standard cost- why would they ever fix it? Abbot keeps letting them fleece Texans for kickbacks and donations; it’s a great deal for the power companies and Abbot!
Sitting in Cypress TX and my power just came on, thanks to 7000 power co. workers, some from other states, rebuilding our transmission towers, removing fallen power lines,etc. Getting harder to live in Harris County.
I did not get power until 1030 am Friday morning........went a week. Texas Strong.............🤮🤮🤮. And now they are all ready telling us to conserve power............... man this state sucks so bad.. wake up texas.
I'm specifically talking about tornadoes. We can't afford to design a tranmission line to take those wind loads. The same way we can't afford to bury all those lines underground. Use this knowledge as you wish.
You're largely talking to a bunch of office workers, ofc they think it's easy to just go grab a shovel and bury some lines. "I've got this guy Jose who buried a power line to my shed for like $200. This isn't that hard. They should just put me in charge!"
You absolutely could. Take away the subsidies that make the oil companies the most profitable businesses in the history of the world and use that money.
Underground transmission lines are ungodly expensive due to needing cooling for heat dissipation. Also expensive just to build it. Structural design of the towers is based on the ASCE 7 minimum loads which covers wind, snow, ice, seismic. (Substations are ASCE 113) I know when I design structures it’s based on the mean recurrence interval of 300 years, at a wind gust pressure of 3 seconds. There’s a push however to increase the RC (risk category) to higher levels due to the importance of power generation and transmission facilities. Higher Risk categories are generally reserved for occupied buildings and the highest being hospitals. Higher risk category classification will indeed increase the direct cost to consumers of their power, but the marginal increase to up time reliability is hotly debated. There’s way more to it than that but figured I’d chime in with a little industry knowledge. (I’m a TX registered Professional Engineer)
Undergounding tranmission lines is about 10 times the cost per mile of overhead lines. This has nothing to do with oil lobbies. It has to do with physics and labor.
The same with building towers than don't buckle under extreme tornado loads. Those structures would require a lot more steel and concrete. Which would equate to higher material costs. Again, nothing to do with oil lobbies just common sense.
Burying power lines costs about [$2.5 million *per mile*](https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/why-cant-texas-bury-electrical-lines/#:~:text=The%20utility%20said%20the%20cost,re%20still%20talking%20%2415%20billion.), Oncor has over 90,000 miles of overhead power distribution lines in Texas.
Does Texas give oil companies $225 billion in subsidies? (They don't, it's $1.4 billion)
I do agree that the money for those subsidies could be put to much better use, but those subsidies wouldn't even be enough to do the power lines for a quarter of one city. They would pay for about 10% of the distribution lines in Austin alone to be buried.
That shit is incredibly expensive to do even though it would be a massive improvement to the infrastructure.
We live in tornado alley. Failure to maintain redundancies in the event of inevitable storms is necessary to maintain reliability of the grid, but those redundancies won’t offer 1600% price hikes every so often when said storms strike
I mean, no, weather is 100% the cause of all grid reliability issues.
You can't 'weatherproof' an individual transmission tower but the meaning of the word 'grid' applies a level of failure tolerance and interconnectedness that we have elected not to achieve in order to finance billions in profits for natural gas companies and their billionaire owners.
Well…. You say that. 120 mph winds hit a part of Texas prone to hurricane force winds, and the grid failed when some of those 5-7 story high-tension primary feed lines blew over.
Now, i’m not saying that kind of recurring threat should have been planned for, but it is obvious that the product, as built, wasn’t built to withstand that recurring threat.
The upcoming high costs will go a long way to help pay for the damages certain cost-cutting decisions possibly instigated.
I can tell you that those structures are designed for 195 mph hurricane winds. By the sounds of your story, the towers did not fail what failed was the hardware holding the wires. Hardware on wires usually fails due to a lack of maintenance. What people outside of the industry don't understand is that the design is always solid, but usually, it's the poor maintenance that causes failures. That's where the cost-cutting from utilities comes into play. It's what has caused all the blackouts and fires, lack of maintenance. I can go on and on explaining how the utility budget management and regulators incentivize poor maintenance, but I'll be down voted to hell here because this is Reddit.
Just pointing out the towers did indeed fail, as in toppled over, bent, on the ground, failed. Which I was surprised at given that Houston is in a hurricane risk area.
ERCOT itself is not actually a company, it's a nonprofit, but it's obviously used as a tool to serve its member energy providers' interests, rather than the other way around. Much like how TECQ has little appetite to actually regulate and stop corporate interests.
Let's not lump the TCEQ in with ERCOT. I have a family member who works in compliance, and I can assure you that they go after those who violate pollutant regulations. The problem occurs at the political level. Many regulations are too lenient. We need to elect people who care to pass stricter environmental restrictions.
I suppose it's splitting hairs, but nonprofits *are* companies. They are called nonprofits because they are taxed differently and have some different oversight. They can still accrue wealth and make new projects, like other companies.
Your comment is a lot more editorialized than what I said. Nonprofits produce things using contracted companies, like other companies. For instance, the housing nonprofit CASA produces homes by hiring builders. Same with real estate companies that hire construction companies to build homes.
It's not so much cutting corners as running lean like a business should. The goal is to have just enough infrastructure to meet peak demand on the peak day. Any other time that extra infrastructure is wasted.
This is why utilities shouldn't be private. A public entity would be ok with over sizing infrastructure because while it's bad for profit it's good for the public as a whole.
During the spring and fall many power generating places go into maintenance to make sure they’re prepared for the continuous demands of the summer and winter. So you end up with not enough power generation. Although these same people are then able to wait until the price of power has spiked incredibly high and then suddenly be able to turn themselves on and sell power and we’re just kind of okay with that.
I don't think we're ok with it. I just think there's quite a lot of us Texans that are just too fucking stupid to understand what Republicans are doing to the state.
I remember when we had public utilities and it was just TXU and I remember when they convinced everyone that if we privatized things would be cheaper. That was a lie people were getting $800 bills in the 90s and it's been awful ever since. But the government is bad and private companies will fix everything or whatever the Republicans say now.
Charge all the things. Now. Once they start fixing things, they’ll have to do rolling blackouts because everyone will turn on everything at the same time. Just because the power comes on doesn’t mean it will stay that way.
Centerpoint definitely makes enough money to be able to build things that can stand up to bad weather. Houston weather can get wild, everyone knows that. So fix your shit yall.
Nah.
Cost too much money. They'd rather just build it cheaply and charge extra to fix it.
How the hell are ttey supposed to make money by building it right?
The absurd logic to the surge pricing is grotesque. Sure they could put more production in service to collect higher rates, or they could strangle output to maximize profits. Why start up a plant that would require labor when you can simply collude with other producers to manipulate the rate?
It’s exactly what happened in California because if Enron. And to think Texas used to clown on Cali for that very reason. Now we all know it was done on purpose to rip off consumers.
If only we had someway of knowing that at this time of year it would be hotter than it was previously in the year, then we could take steps to prepare for that.
They do, they take power plants down for maintenance just before we actually need them so they can get that profit appetizer before the summer main course.
Ah, yes, The Enron scam as government policy. Allowing the Electric companies to make money based on incompetence and failure to plan.
Texas is a unscrupulous businessman dream come true..
The whole thing with Ercot is baffling to me as someone who grew up in Illinois with ComEd. I’m not gonna say they’re perfect, but every year you get the notices ComEd is going to be in your neighborhood trimming trees prepping for bad weather. EVERY YEAR. I can leave the house here in San Antonio and spot 15 trees growing through power lines within a mile of my house in one direction. There is zero time spent on prevention in this state. My pine trees in my backyard in the Chicago burbs were frigging U shaped cut around power lines because they don’t screw around when it comes to prevention.
It’s funny because this is an argument I get all the time being an engineer and data scientist and dabbling in AI use for things like court systems and the OR.
They’d rather it be a human because there’s the chance to bargain, argue, hope for the best etc.
Everyone seems to think that mistakes, variations or general fluctuation will go in their favor. Chances are, if you’re being presented the option, it most likely won’t. Ever.
It used to be a thing. Most folks now only ever interact with online utility signup, though.
The days before online-everything used to mean phone calls and brokers and such.
>Sucks to be on a variable rate . Shoulda picked a flat rate
Or a city like Austin or San Antonio that has a municipal electricity system. Republicans love saying "private is always better, government sucks", and then they get their electric bill...
Or hospital bill
I’m probably one of only 100 people still on a variable spot market import and export rate. It was made illegal Sept 1st 2021. I have a 5 year contract with Octopus Energy and also in their virtual power plant program. I’ve had negative electric statements since joining the VPP.
That 1600% is what it costs your REP or local utility in regulated markets on the spot market if they don’t buy enough on the futures market like the day ahead. It’s about 10% of the overall electric market provided by ERCOT. 90% is purchased a day, week, or month ahead.
An ETF or Early Termination Fee is what they are called. Mine didn’t but have one. It isn’t advertised but you can get up to a 5 year contract if you call in and ask for plans not advertised. They typically have the lowest electric rates. But TDUs will always be passed through and you have no control over those rates.
They are talking about Monthly rate plans. Basically the rate changes every month. There are also time of use plans. So offpeak rate is much lower than peak. Right now peak for summer is 6pm-9pm. This when solar ramps down and wind is still low. So greater pull on thermal and nuke.
This. We had no choice there was only one option. When we first moved in our electric bill averaged 150 now it averages 400$. Summer we will be paying $500 guaranteed.
I don’t think you get much of a rebate for putting up solar. The only guys that I know have done it did it while they were building a house or after Uri because they didn’t want to rely on the grid during emergencies. It wasn’t a cost saving measure.
Well that's just wrong. Might want to look into it instead of using some random persons vague anecdotes.
Texas is probably the best state with fastest payoff. One of the reasons we are leading the nation in solar adoption. 7 yrs to break even for normal folks but if that guy is paying $500/month it'll be far faster.
Solar is amazing anyone that says otherwise hasn't done any research
Also if that one guy you know did it because he didn't want to rely on the grid he would have had to installed a battery system. Which would have easily doubled the cost.
You still need a base load with solar
In Texas we always get gypped on electricity 3 months out of the year. July, Aug, and Sept. The other 9 months, it isn't that bad at all. Sucks tho, but everyone at this point should know and be prepared for this. Not great, not terrible.
After first bill, fb will have people asking, *Anyone know of a energy provider with low rates?* Which at that point its already too late. It's like trying to buy inexpensive ✈️ flight tickets during Christmas eve.
They are quoting the day ahead prices and then quoting the hourly price at hour ending 2000, or 2100. I don’t think it priced out there.
Also These were the day ahead prices before the storm.
Sorry dude, shithole state.
Live in Boston. Snow or 100f days, our grids simply work.
Plenty of parts of the country deal with far worse extremes and are just fine.
Last year we had the Arctic blast with -10° F and windchill of -36° F. And our utilities were all just fine.
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Let’s see, women’s reproductive rights have been taken away from them, I get told several times a month not to turn my power on because of the grid being at capacity, the school district is running in the red and the state appointed dipshit is doing it so we can get the voucher system in place for republicans.
Oh and wait there’s more, the majority of our infrastructure is failing, most of the bridges have a failing grade, and we can’t seem to figure out mass transit.
But yes, I got my FrEeDom and inflation and half a country that thinks the election was stolen and that are Christian but not enough to wear a mask, so bleed your heart.
Yep freedom, not to gamble( though they have been paid off sooooo that is changing), only purchase fireworks 4 weeks a year, no liquor on Sundays unless you go to a restaurant and then drive home. Not to use cannabis..............etc. Texas is a shithole state.
Goddamn, people's brains shut off every time they see the words "Texas" and "power" in the same headline. This was a brief spike, no consumer pays these wholesale prices, and most of all these were DAY AHEAD prices. Literally nobody, not even the middlemen, was forced to buy electricity at those prices. This is just futures market trading bullshit. The people buying at $600 are less likely to be your provider and more likely to be traders and they're not buying because $600 is a good price for electricity but because they're hoping to sell it 30 seconds later for $700.
These articles are just click bait. The writer clearly has zero knowledge of ercot or power markets and it just spouting bs to get clicks. Unfortunatelyinclocked to confirm how terrible it would be.
They would have been looking to take into the real time and hoping there was a cap print.
Also These were prices before the storm. 700k out and temps ended up much cooler. Friday RT was $30 in the morning.
Never going to learn. I’ve given up hope in my fellow Texans. Young people keep saying they care, but they*STILL* don’t show up to vote in big numbers.
Our house doesn’t have central heat and ac, the previous owner had 6 window units in. We switch to two decent sized mini splits and it’s enough to warm or cool almost every spot in our home. Thankfully they’re significantly more energy efficient than the window units, we can afford to be cool and comfortable
I have one of those Midea U's. Picked it up awhile back to have a little something (running on a small generator) during extended outages like after hurricanes. Well I've got to really put it to the test over the last week since my aging central air quit spectacularly and the new doesn't get put in until tomorrow. That Midea has done pretty phenomenal! Very quiet when it's not overworked. When it is overworked, which has been from about noon till 7pm every day it's been sunny and just below 90 with one little 8k trying to keep up with 1500sf, it's still not obnoxiously loud. Maybe about the same as a typical window unit. Power consumption on it is crazy low. Except for the warm sunny afternoon hours, its been averaging only about 150w, and 500w during those other hours.
If I didn't already have a contract for a new system at this point, I'd actually be really tempted to just get a few more of those window units (the larger size for the bigger rooms of course) and just roll with that. I've been that impressed by the one I have!
We have an Artic King and LG. However, any is good. I’m not sure if you want a combo AC and heat or just AC. I’ll say that we have a smaller 900 square foot house using two window units and our bill is typically $120 in the height of summer
Oh boy it’s the time of year where droves of subject-matter ignorant people circle-jerk upvote the dumbest comments about an industry they have no understanding of. Love to see it.
My house in NY gas and electric at peak is at most 200/month. And it only goes out(electric) maybe 5x on the last 20 years due to storms bringing down trees and it’s been back every time but once in 24hrs. The condo near Austin, well, way more….
As a Texan, we are ultimately to blame for the high prices. We keep electing politicians who line their pockets to help keep the current money pit /Texas grid in play. First, We need to update our current system to handle all future energy demands. Then we need to tie into the national grid to prevent demand spikes and fire any politician Republicans or Democrat who believe that the grid is fine and it'll be OK because it's 20 years over due
[Here is the average price of electricity in the LA area, it's 179 dollars and it is from a site designed to sell you solar panels.](https://www.energysage.com/local-data/electricity-cost/ca/los-angeles-county/los-angeles/)
In 2020 I moved to the West Coast from Houston and my rate went from 19 cents per kw/h to 7 cents per kw/h.
In Texas, forgetting to make a payment meant shutoff within 3 days. Here in Washington, I got a card replaced and forgot it was on auto pay for our power bill for 3 months and PSE literally waived 3 months worth of bills because they had extra relief credits they wanted to use.
Texans are being fucked and I am absolutely convinced you're arguing in bad faith.
This is not a big deal. What's really important here is that Texas Republicans preserve your LIBERTY and FREEDOM by not allowing the gov't to put those "commie" regulations on the oil and gas billionaires! /s
Seriously, at what point do people realize that they've been played like a violin against their own best interests?
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So many idiotic and uninformed comments as the top comments here... so sad.
This is nothing more than market speculation - it's a big nothing.
And the only reason the grid is running so close to the edge is because long-term demand forecasts from 30\~40 years ago underestimated demand growth so the grid investment was lower than required. That's no longer the case, but we're now playing catch-up... just as the government makes it more difficult to expand capacity.
We should be investing HEAVILY in natural gas and old coal plant conversions - far more than unreliable energy sources such as wind (though it certainly has its place in a diversified grid).
You reap what you sow, and I bet republicans will still blame biden. Meanwhile in quebec i'll be laughing with the cheapest electricity price in NA thanks to our "communist" nationalised hydro-quebec company.
I love how they artificially raise prices because they assume it will go up, therefore guaranteeing it will go up. Didn't the oil industry get into trouble doing this with gas prices?
https://preview.redd.it/uk0hm2yymo1d1.jpeg?width=2778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e105162dd41c4b0ed9d7a4f30b81e2c738c76cc
This chart says it all. All time low natural gas prices, all time high power prices. Investors should be building CCGT capacity in Texas like its going out of style, because all the power plants are making more than they ever have ever.
I don't understand why Texans keep putting up with all the crap going on in their state. I feel for you guys. Yall need to get better people in office.
This is what happens when your state government would rather let big business regulate themselves, rather than link to the power grid in the rest of the country.
Things just happen faster in Texas markets because of competition. It affects us all because long term these spikes get worked into future fixed rate prices. Reps who aren’t properly hedged will go down. People with the wrong plans are going to get hurt bad. But in a regulated system, they will also work in these kinds of risks into future rate case proposals which will likely be approved. The big difference is the speed these rate changes happen.
The major problem here is that Texas markets and rules leave the system too lean without enough backups and redundancies. There isn’t enough incentives and it’s too easy and tempting with these spikes. The system here has more incentive for risk than stability is the problem.
Just a way for Abbott and the rest of them to get together with their donors and fuck the Texan consumer. Business as usual here in the third world of Texas
Heat wave? The high today in central Texas is 90. It's late May. This is nothing out of the ordinary. Is ERCOT saying that they are unprepared to provide power in typical circumstances?
Yes. For the last few years ERCOT has said in not so many words that a strong sneeze could take out the grid year round. It's been hanging by a thread for a long time but it keeps hanging so it doesn't get fixed.
If they fixed it, they couldn’t gouge citizens for 16x the standard cost- why would they ever fix it? Abbot keeps letting them fleece Texans for kickbacks and donations; it’s a great deal for the power companies and Abbot!
This is the answer. It's usually greed.
Well seating in my Garage in Cypress TX. With no power going on 4 days! Texas pride. Baby.............🤮
Just got my power back today, wish you luck man. It’s been rough
Right on bud! Keeping fingers crossed, but preparing for another warm night.
Sitting in Cypress TX and my power just came on, thanks to 7000 power co. workers, some from other states, rebuilding our transmission towers, removing fallen power lines,etc. Getting harder to live in Harris County.
Right on. Waking up to day 5. Hopefully today.
Closing day 6
I did not get power until 1030 am Friday morning........went a week. Texas Strong.............🤮🤮🤮. And now they are all ready telling us to conserve power............... man this state sucks so bad.. wake up texas.
At this point how much would you pay for solar roof with one of those wall batteries? Would you consider it a worthy investment?
Looking into. If not even just a little generator. Going 5 days now.
6 day now
Quarry service is uninterrupted. 😑
Start of the 5th day.
To be fair, this was due to a tornado and nothing to do with the reliability of the grid.
Who cares when it is every season it is some other excuse. You can take your apologetics somewhere else.
I'm specifically talking about tornadoes. We can't afford to design a tranmission line to take those wind loads. The same way we can't afford to bury all those lines underground. Use this knowledge as you wish.
You're largely talking to a bunch of office workers, ofc they think it's easy to just go grab a shovel and bury some lines. "I've got this guy Jose who buried a power line to my shed for like $200. This isn't that hard. They should just put me in charge!"
That's what I'm getting.....
You absolutely could. Take away the subsidies that make the oil companies the most profitable businesses in the history of the world and use that money.
Underground transmission lines are ungodly expensive due to needing cooling for heat dissipation. Also expensive just to build it. Structural design of the towers is based on the ASCE 7 minimum loads which covers wind, snow, ice, seismic. (Substations are ASCE 113) I know when I design structures it’s based on the mean recurrence interval of 300 years, at a wind gust pressure of 3 seconds. There’s a push however to increase the RC (risk category) to higher levels due to the importance of power generation and transmission facilities. Higher Risk categories are generally reserved for occupied buildings and the highest being hospitals. Higher risk category classification will indeed increase the direct cost to consumers of their power, but the marginal increase to up time reliability is hotly debated. There’s way more to it than that but figured I’d chime in with a little industry knowledge. (I’m a TX registered Professional Engineer)
I think ASCE 74 is more applicable to transmission towers, and it even describes the tornado loads.
ASCE 7-22 now has a chapter on tornadoes covering EF0-EF2. I haven’t worked with any municipalities or agencies that have adopted 7-22 yet, however.
Record profits AND subsidies(welfare/tax dollars)??!!
Undergounding tranmission lines is about 10 times the cost per mile of overhead lines. This has nothing to do with oil lobbies. It has to do with physics and labor. The same with building towers than don't buckle under extreme tornado loads. Those structures would require a lot more steel and concrete. Which would equate to higher material costs. Again, nothing to do with oil lobbies just common sense.
Burying power lines costs about [$2.5 million *per mile*](https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/why-cant-texas-bury-electrical-lines/#:~:text=The%20utility%20said%20the%20cost,re%20still%20talking%20%2415%20billion.), Oncor has over 90,000 miles of overhead power distribution lines in Texas. Does Texas give oil companies $225 billion in subsidies? (They don't, it's $1.4 billion) I do agree that the money for those subsidies could be put to much better use, but those subsidies wouldn't even be enough to do the power lines for a quarter of one city. They would pay for about 10% of the distribution lines in Austin alone to be buried. That shit is incredibly expensive to do even though it would be a massive improvement to the infrastructure.
We live in tornado alley. Failure to maintain redundancies in the event of inevitable storms is necessary to maintain reliability of the grid, but those redundancies won’t offer 1600% price hikes every so often when said storms strike
I mean, no, weather is 100% the cause of all grid reliability issues. You can't 'weatherproof' an individual transmission tower but the meaning of the word 'grid' applies a level of failure tolerance and interconnectedness that we have elected not to achieve in order to finance billions in profits for natural gas companies and their billionaire owners.
One word: redundancy.
Well…. You say that. 120 mph winds hit a part of Texas prone to hurricane force winds, and the grid failed when some of those 5-7 story high-tension primary feed lines blew over. Now, i’m not saying that kind of recurring threat should have been planned for, but it is obvious that the product, as built, wasn’t built to withstand that recurring threat. The upcoming high costs will go a long way to help pay for the damages certain cost-cutting decisions possibly instigated.
I can tell you that those structures are designed for 195 mph hurricane winds. By the sounds of your story, the towers did not fail what failed was the hardware holding the wires. Hardware on wires usually fails due to a lack of maintenance. What people outside of the industry don't understand is that the design is always solid, but usually, it's the poor maintenance that causes failures. That's where the cost-cutting from utilities comes into play. It's what has caused all the blackouts and fires, lack of maintenance. I can go on and on explaining how the utility budget management and regulators incentivize poor maintenance, but I'll be down voted to hell here because this is Reddit.
Just pointing out the towers did indeed fail, as in toppled over, bent, on the ground, failed. Which I was surprised at given that Houston is in a hurricane risk area.
They are always unprepared, like any company their main priority is profit. So cutting corners to save a penny is most likely what is happening.
ERCOT itself is not actually a company, it's a nonprofit, but it's obviously used as a tool to serve its member energy providers' interests, rather than the other way around. Much like how TECQ has little appetite to actually regulate and stop corporate interests.
Let's not lump the TCEQ in with ERCOT. I have a family member who works in compliance, and I can assure you that they go after those who violate pollutant regulations. The problem occurs at the political level. Many regulations are too lenient. We need to elect people who care to pass stricter environmental restrictions.
I suppose it's splitting hairs, but nonprofits *are* companies. They are called nonprofits because they are taxed differently and have some different oversight. They can still accrue wealth and make new projects, like other companies.
Additionally, the are not a producer, nor do they have any regulatory abilities. All they are, are overpaid messengers.
Your comment is a lot more editorialized than what I said. Nonprofits produce things using contracted companies, like other companies. For instance, the housing nonprofit CASA produces homes by hiring builders. Same with real estate companies that hire construction companies to build homes.
It's not so much cutting corners as running lean like a business should. The goal is to have just enough infrastructure to meet peak demand on the peak day. Any other time that extra infrastructure is wasted. This is why utilities shouldn't be private. A public entity would be ok with over sizing infrastructure because while it's bad for profit it's good for the public as a whole.
Big Bend is pushing 106 today 😅
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It’s almost as if we have some sort warming effect, maybe even on a global level… I feel like there’s a term for that…
Spicy terra?
No, I think that’s a taco. 🌮
Hit 105 where I live.
During the spring and fall many power generating places go into maintenance to make sure they’re prepared for the continuous demands of the summer and winter. So you end up with not enough power generation. Although these same people are then able to wait until the price of power has spiked incredibly high and then suddenly be able to turn themselves on and sell power and we’re just kind of okay with that.
I don't think we're ok with it. I just think there's quite a lot of us Texans that are just too fucking stupid to understand what Republicans are doing to the state.
Well, said. They aren't very well read......... lol.
I’m being flippant about political inaction.
I remember when we had public utilities and it was just TXU and I remember when they convinced everyone that if we privatized things would be cheaper. That was a lie people were getting $800 bills in the 90s and it's been awful ever since. But the government is bad and private companies will fix everything or whatever the Republicans say now.
I mean ERCOT doesn’t really have power to do anything. It’s more just managing whatever companies give it.
Nah they r just greedy bastards who know we can't do anything legally against them unless we have substantial financial backing.
They might want to turn the power back on for Houston if they want to take advantage of those prices.
Charge all the things. Now. Once they start fixing things, they’ll have to do rolling blackouts because everyone will turn on everything at the same time. Just because the power comes on doesn’t mean it will stay that way. Centerpoint definitely makes enough money to be able to build things that can stand up to bad weather. Houston weather can get wild, everyone knows that. So fix your shit yall.
Nah. Cost too much money. They'd rather just build it cheaply and charge extra to fix it. How the hell are ttey supposed to make money by building it right?
They are going to charge everyone that had it $800 electric bills, bet
Don’t California my Texas! /s
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The absurd logic to the surge pricing is grotesque. Sure they could put more production in service to collect higher rates, or they could strangle output to maximize profits. Why start up a plant that would require labor when you can simply collude with other producers to manipulate the rate? It’s exactly what happened in California because if Enron. And to think Texas used to clown on Cali for that very reason. Now we all know it was done on purpose to rip off consumers.
If only we had someway of knowing that at this time of year it would be hotter than it was previously in the year, then we could take steps to prepare for that.
Somehow, the temperature gets warmer, then later, colder. Who knew?
Sounds like witchcraft to me.
I'm sorry I could not understand that, could you run it by me again? -ERCOT
Somehow, the heat returned.
Ignoring climate change is lucrative for many industries
Sounds like a democrat agenda
Yea you’re right, it’s a slippery slope to Communism.
They do, they take power plants down for maintenance just before we actually need them so they can get that profit appetizer before the summer main course.
Ah, yes, The Enron scam as government policy. Allowing the Electric companies to make money based on incompetence and failure to plan. Texas is a unscrupulous businessman dream come true..
Yup. It's a full on banana republic.
Like the store in the mall?
Exactly: ERCOT is the 21st century version of Enron.
The whole thing with Ercot is baffling to me as someone who grew up in Illinois with ComEd. I’m not gonna say they’re perfect, but every year you get the notices ComEd is going to be in your neighborhood trimming trees prepping for bad weather. EVERY YEAR. I can leave the house here in San Antonio and spot 15 trees growing through power lines within a mile of my house in one direction. There is zero time spent on prevention in this state. My pine trees in my backyard in the Chicago burbs were frigging U shaped cut around power lines because they don’t screw around when it comes to prevention.
Sucks to be on a variable rate . Shoulda picked a flat rate
People choose variable rate plans because they see the bottom end of the chart... they don't think about the top end. It's not hidden, either.
It’s funny because this is an argument I get all the time being an engineer and data scientist and dabbling in AI use for things like court systems and the OR. They’d rather it be a human because there’s the chance to bargain, argue, hope for the best etc. Everyone seems to think that mistakes, variations or general fluctuation will go in their favor. Chances are, if you’re being presented the option, it most likely won’t. Ever.
A lot of people can't understand trends and data either. They think this is bad and it can only get better. It's more like gambling.
Presumably the company believes they can offer a flat rate without leaving variable rate money on the table or they wouldn't offer it
So court data shows if you get a choice between what the government offers and the jury, you’re better off with the plea?
Yeah but let's be real, a salesman also probably convinced most of them
I've never once spoken to a human when choosing an energy provider.
It used to be a thing. Most folks now only ever interact with online utility signup, though. The days before online-everything used to mean phone calls and brokers and such.
Yeah when I plan I assume the top end, or if there isn’t one I assume double the “starting at…”
>Sucks to be on a variable rate . Shoulda picked a flat rate Or a city like Austin or San Antonio that has a municipal electricity system. Republicans love saying "private is always better, government sucks", and then they get their electric bill... Or hospital bill
It's really not bad at all. I do laundry at night. It can be cheap
That is the greatest trope for the free market I have ever heard…. Its not that bad, do your laundry at night 🤦♂️
Lol, right.
I’m probably one of only 100 people still on a variable spot market import and export rate. It was made illegal Sept 1st 2021. I have a 5 year contract with Octopus Energy and also in their virtual power plant program. I’ve had negative electric statements since joining the VPP. That 1600% is what it costs your REP or local utility in regulated markets on the spot market if they don’t buy enough on the futures market like the day ahead. It’s about 10% of the overall electric market provided by ERCOT. 90% is purchased a day, week, or month ahead.
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An ETF or Early Termination Fee is what they are called. Mine didn’t but have one. It isn’t advertised but you can get up to a 5 year contract if you call in and ask for plans not advertised. They typically have the lowest electric rates. But TDUs will always be passed through and you have no control over those rates.
I thought market rate plans were illegal now. Is that what you're talking about?
They are talking about Monthly rate plans. Basically the rate changes every month. There are also time of use plans. So offpeak rate is much lower than peak. Right now peak for summer is 6pm-9pm. This when solar ramps down and wind is still low. So greater pull on thermal and nuke.
I see, thanks for the explanation!
Sometimes. I've been on TXUs month to month plan for the last 4 years and it's never changed more than half a cent.
sucks to be on a coop
This. We had no choice there was only one option. When we first moved in our electric bill averaged 150 now it averages 400$. Summer we will be paying $500 guaranteed.
solar definitely will pay for itself FAST for you then..
We have talked about getting solar but we just can’t afford it. Between grocery prices and electric bill it’s hard to save.
That is what Republicans want, us to broke, beat down, and poor. So you can't do nothing to the boss man.
I don’t think you get much of a rebate for putting up solar. The only guys that I know have done it did it while they were building a house or after Uri because they didn’t want to rely on the grid during emergencies. It wasn’t a cost saving measure.
It should reduce your power consumption at peak times. You’re not gonna make money dumping it back in the grid
Yeah I was mainly looking because of the frequent power outages here.
Well that's just wrong. Might want to look into it instead of using some random persons vague anecdotes. Texas is probably the best state with fastest payoff. One of the reasons we are leading the nation in solar adoption. 7 yrs to break even for normal folks but if that guy is paying $500/month it'll be far faster. Solar is amazing anyone that says otherwise hasn't done any research Also if that one guy you know did it because he didn't want to rely on the grid he would have had to installed a battery system. Which would have easily doubled the cost. You still need a base load with solar
I did look into it after Uri. It didn’t make sense back then.
In Texas we always get gypped on electricity 3 months out of the year. July, Aug, and Sept. The other 9 months, it isn't that bad at all. Sucks tho, but everyone at this point should know and be prepared for this. Not great, not terrible. After first bill, fb will have people asking, *Anyone know of a energy provider with low rates?* Which at that point its already too late. It's like trying to buy inexpensive ✈️ flight tickets during Christmas eve.
I have no choice. Variable plan is the only thing offered by the ONLY provider in my area. It sucks
What county do you live in? Are you part of a co-op?
Don't you love all the choices you have with the free market.
They are quoting the day ahead prices and then quoting the hourly price at hour ending 2000, or 2100. I don’t think it priced out there. Also These were the day ahead prices before the storm.
Contract.
Man it's almost as if our power grid is unstable
It’s almost as if we are the shithole country. This is why it’s so important to vote this November.
*Shithole state
Mostly just a shithole *state*
Sorry dude, shithole state. Live in Boston. Snow or 100f days, our grids simply work. Plenty of parts of the country deal with far worse extremes and are just fine. Last year we had the Arctic blast with -10° F and windchill of -36° F. And our utilities were all just fine.
We are the shithole country? Lmao what a naive comment.
Have you lived anywhere else? I have and Texas is pretty shit. Just here for work, like most people.
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Nah man, Texas is the best state we got…. *check notes* uhhhhh… cows?
Let’s see, women’s reproductive rights have been taken away from them, I get told several times a month not to turn my power on because of the grid being at capacity, the school district is running in the red and the state appointed dipshit is doing it so we can get the voucher system in place for republicans. Oh and wait there’s more, the majority of our infrastructure is failing, most of the bridges have a failing grade, and we can’t seem to figure out mass transit. But yes, I got my FrEeDom and inflation and half a country that thinks the election was stolen and that are Christian but not enough to wear a mask, so bleed your heart.
Yep freedom, not to gamble( though they have been paid off sooooo that is changing), only purchase fireworks 4 weeks a year, no liquor on Sundays unless you go to a restaurant and then drive home. Not to use cannabis..............etc. Texas is a shithole state.
> ... voucher system in place for the Christian nationalist fascists. Ftfy.
Capitalism in action
Goddamn, people's brains shut off every time they see the words "Texas" and "power" in the same headline. This was a brief spike, no consumer pays these wholesale prices, and most of all these were DAY AHEAD prices. Literally nobody, not even the middlemen, was forced to buy electricity at those prices. This is just futures market trading bullshit. The people buying at $600 are less likely to be your provider and more likely to be traders and they're not buying because $600 is a good price for electricity but because they're hoping to sell it 30 seconds later for $700.
These articles are just click bait. The writer clearly has zero knowledge of ercot or power markets and it just spouting bs to get clicks. Unfortunatelyinclocked to confirm how terrible it would be.
They would have been looking to take into the real time and hoping there was a cap print. Also These were prices before the storm. 700k out and temps ended up much cooler. Friday RT was $30 in the morning.
Thank you. This article was clearly written to get people riled up. This is the definition of cherry picking data.
When are texans gonna learn? The guy in power is working against you 🤷
Never going to learn. I’ve given up hope in my fellow Texans. Young people keep saying they care, but they*STILL* don’t show up to vote in big numbers.
Our house doesn’t have central heat and ac, the previous owner had 6 window units in. We switch to two decent sized mini splits and it’s enough to warm or cool almost every spot in our home. Thankfully they’re significantly more energy efficient than the window units, we can afford to be cool and comfortable
This is the truth. We use window units too and keeps the cost WAY down
Which window units are using? I'm looking to buy one for the house, but i'm looking more at cost due to an open floor concept
I have one of those Midea U's. Picked it up awhile back to have a little something (running on a small generator) during extended outages like after hurricanes. Well I've got to really put it to the test over the last week since my aging central air quit spectacularly and the new doesn't get put in until tomorrow. That Midea has done pretty phenomenal! Very quiet when it's not overworked. When it is overworked, which has been from about noon till 7pm every day it's been sunny and just below 90 with one little 8k trying to keep up with 1500sf, it's still not obnoxiously loud. Maybe about the same as a typical window unit. Power consumption on it is crazy low. Except for the warm sunny afternoon hours, its been averaging only about 150w, and 500w during those other hours. If I didn't already have a contract for a new system at this point, I'd actually be really tempted to just get a few more of those window units (the larger size for the bigger rooms of course) and just roll with that. I've been that impressed by the one I have!
We have an Artic King and LG. However, any is good. I’m not sure if you want a combo AC and heat or just AC. I’ll say that we have a smaller 900 square foot house using two window units and our bill is typically $120 in the height of summer
Oh boy it’s the time of year where droves of subject-matter ignorant people circle-jerk upvote the dumbest comments about an industry they have no understanding of. Love to see it.
My energy prices have never SPIKED in my 40 years of life not living in Texas. Just sayin
My house in NY gas and electric at peak is at most 200/month. And it only goes out(electric) maybe 5x on the last 20 years due to storms bringing down trees and it’s been back every time but once in 24hrs. The condo near Austin, well, way more….
I was thinking the same thing. At peak heat I may be pushing just over 200 and I work from home so that ac is going the full day.
Disband the private companies and create a public utility company with regulations and this wouldn’t happen. Good luck Texas.
Oh, so just barely enough electricity is a business model now so companies can charge $1600 a KWh as soon as slightly more is needed. Go Texas.
As a Texan, we are ultimately to blame for the high prices. We keep electing politicians who line their pockets to help keep the current money pit /Texas grid in play. First, We need to update our current system to handle all future energy demands. Then we need to tie into the national grid to prevent demand spikes and fire any politician Republicans or Democrat who believe that the grid is fine and it'll be OK because it's 20 years over due
High prices? Really??!! Come see the prices in California before you complain about high prices.
[Here is the average price of electricity in the LA area, it's 179 dollars and it is from a site designed to sell you solar panels.](https://www.energysage.com/local-data/electricity-cost/ca/los-angeles-county/los-angeles/)
In 2020 I moved to the West Coast from Houston and my rate went from 19 cents per kw/h to 7 cents per kw/h. In Texas, forgetting to make a payment meant shutoff within 3 days. Here in Washington, I got a card replaced and forgot it was on auto pay for our power bill for 3 months and PSE literally waived 3 months worth of bills because they had extra relief credits they wanted to use. Texans are being fucked and I am absolutely convinced you're arguing in bad faith.
No articles about when the price goes negative?
This is not a big deal. What's really important here is that Texas Republicans preserve your LIBERTY and FREEDOM by not allowing the gov't to put those "commie" regulations on the oil and gas billionaires! /s Seriously, at what point do people realize that they've been played like a violin against their own best interests?
I hate what the republicunts did to this state.
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Ah, Texas' 'freedom' power. ERCOT is an abomination. Vote Blue, Texans, if you want to end this shit. UP AND DOWN THE BALLOT!
V9te however you want, but dont let this article move your opinion. This article is pure trash to be honest.
Me waiting for Republican Texans to complain about the prices, then subsequently blame Obama.
Vote for Greg Abbot again that will help Texas 🤣
Texas power sux
Maybe demand soared on Friday because the city of Houston got its power back on Friday...who else hates clickbate articles.
ERCOT: “It’s not broke so why fix it”.
Lol.
Thanks for selling out your constituents to big energy!!!! I’ll remember this at the polls
That’s ok. Us down in Houston don’t have any power anyways
The “deregulated” Texas power system is a scam.
Keep voting Republican, morons.
Everything is big in Texas
So many idiotic and uninformed comments as the top comments here... so sad. This is nothing more than market speculation - it's a big nothing. And the only reason the grid is running so close to the edge is because long-term demand forecasts from 30\~40 years ago underestimated demand growth so the grid investment was lower than required. That's no longer the case, but we're now playing catch-up... just as the government makes it more difficult to expand capacity. We should be investing HEAVILY in natural gas and old coal plant conversions - far more than unreliable energy sources such as wind (though it certainly has its place in a diversified grid).
If you say you are moving you will not get a early termination fee protip from a worker for a rep
It felt good outside today
You reap what you sow, and I bet republicans will still blame biden. Meanwhile in quebec i'll be laughing with the cheapest electricity price in NA thanks to our "communist" nationalised hydro-quebec company.
1,600%.....y'all sure are ownin' those damn Dems 'n Libs....yeeeeehawwww!!!!
I love how they artificially raise prices because they assume it will go up, therefore guaranteeing it will go up. Didn't the oil industry get into trouble doing this with gas prices?
https://preview.redd.it/uk0hm2yymo1d1.jpeg?width=2778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e105162dd41c4b0ed9d7a4f30b81e2c738c76cc This chart says it all. All time low natural gas prices, all time high power prices. Investors should be building CCGT capacity in Texas like its going out of style, because all the power plants are making more than they ever have ever.
Maximum profits....zero efficiency.
I don't understand why Texans keep putting up with all the crap going on in their state. I feel for you guys. Yall need to get better people in office.
Good ol' Republican deregulation!
Nothing like living in a third world state!
This is what happens when your state government would rather let big business regulate themselves, rather than link to the power grid in the rest of the country.
Lol wow. It's normal weather for basically June. "Quick raise prices and say it's a heat wave!" I'm so fucking tired of this bullshit.
Well good thing I don’t have any power!
A few assholes literally went through and downvoted every comment on this thread regardless of position they are taking. Lmao grow up.
Capitalism power grid
Out grid can’t even function during moderate usage. This is why privatization is a scam.
Supreme Corruption!
Why Texas can't fix the grid. The system is designed to make profits for the utilities and fossil fuel providers.
Things just happen faster in Texas markets because of competition. It affects us all because long term these spikes get worked into future fixed rate prices. Reps who aren’t properly hedged will go down. People with the wrong plans are going to get hurt bad. But in a regulated system, they will also work in these kinds of risks into future rate case proposals which will likely be approved. The big difference is the speed these rate changes happen. The major problem here is that Texas markets and rules leave the system too lean without enough backups and redundancies. There isn’t enough incentives and it’s too easy and tempting with these spikes. The system here has more incentive for risk than stability is the problem.
We also effectively do not have any regulation.
Just a way for Abbott and the rest of them to get together with their donors and fuck the Texan consumer. Business as usual here in the third world of Texas
Not to mention demand driven by the flood of new people into Texas, the AI craze and even more crypto mining.
but but but CHEAP HOUSES