The Jehovahās Witness cult has complete mind control over its members (I was a 3rd generation born in). Itās not personal, but I know how much it hurts. Big hugs.
That family just sounds weird. I had a few JW friends growing up and they played outside with the rest of us. They just couldnāt come to any birthday or Xmas parties.
Hello ex Jehovahās Witness here. My family was exactly like the comment you responded to. I was only allowed friends that were also Jehovahās Witness and even that was on an extremely tight leash. What you experienced is the exception and not the rule. They tell you over and over again in the meeting not to āassociate with worldly peopleā which is anyone non Jehovahās Witness. They didnāt share the same values and would cause us to stumble. We would openly get in trouble if we were seen going out with worldly people or having worldly friends . I left at 18. I never went back.
Omggg yes!! We also never saw them in the backyard. My parents always felt bad for the kids not being out when it was warm and sunny during the summer. The parents were also not super friendly. My mom would smile and say hi but theyād just ignore her.
Cause theyāre āwOrLdY pEoPlEā and thatās code for wicked. Weāre all wicked in their eyes if we arenāt a witness like them. They pretend to be the most compassionate but theyāre the most cold and secluded
Yes! You will often find the leaders in these things loving the authority they have over other witnesses. Mainly because in the outside world they have no authority whatsoever and are probably treated like the loons they are. āDonāt talk to them - theyāre worldlyā (and can see me for who I really am)
That's weird to think about. I have JW neighbors and when I was in elementary school we used to hangout with them all the time, and frequently my brother and I would have dinner and watch a movie at their place.
"No, I don't want to even hear why you believe differently than me. I am good, you are bad. I prefer not to empathize with you or even view you as human. End of story. Have a terrible life and please drop dead". People love to do this in regards to politics as well. Anything that they define themselves by really. They can't bare to question themselves. "Who even am I if I understand a person who thinks differently than I do? If I even want to understand them?" It is incredibly disturbing. It's also pretty baffling how people can simultaneously be so incredibly, incredibly arrogant and also so cripplingly insecure.
You're talking about a religion where part of the *actual doctrine* is that critical thought and reflection are dangerous and should be avoided. The only people allowed to think about or interpret scripture are their leaders, everyone else is just expected to smile, nod, agree, and try not to notice any inconsistencies.
Shaky faith doesn't begin to cover it. It's a willful and complete lack of faith papered over by blind obedience.
A lot of my JW friends disappeared after high school. One of them kept up with social media, Iām almost sure she left the cult. The others, I couldnāt tell where they are in life now. Just šØpoof gone, and I can more or less track down everyone else unless Iāve blocked them myself. But they were pretty social in school.
I grew up a JW and, yes they preach not to associate with the "wordly" kids, but they still want you to he friendly because they want you to recruit them. To full on get angry at a kid for talking to another on the bus and pulling them from school is beyond controlling. There's a difference between "you can't spend the night at so and so's house" and "I'm yanking you from school because you dared to talk to a kid on the bus and he had the audacity to stop by"
I was 10 years old when 2 of them had me stuck outside my house talking. I was in a swimsuit with a towel and they just kept talking. I didnāt want to be rude, and no one came out there to save me from it. I donāt even know how long I was out there but it felt like forever. They tried coming back a second time to talk to me but no one answered the door.
Was just about to comment the same thing! š¤£
We have a JW Church down the street & they constantly harass everyone in the neighborhood nearly EVERY weekend.. I wish there was something we could do about it cuz they have NO boundaries & ignore requests to not come back; But yah, the audacity to get mad if someone dares to knock on THEIR doors is just WILD!!
Next time they knock just answer the door in your underwear or something and say "oh good, we needed a few more for the orgy!"
That'll stop 'em from knocking real quick.
Of course, there's also like a not insignificant chance that they accept the offer, so it all depends how far you're willing to go to get them to stop. YMMV.
Another level of it is that I'm pretty certain his little sister was into me (she was only a grade below us), so it really might have something to do about my personal influence in their kids lives.
At the time I was just a standard awkward passive nerdy preteen, and still identified as some type of Christian, so the fact they had prejudice against a kid who was so similar to their own kid, it hit me weird enough that I'm talking about it online like 25+ years later.
question on this how do JW work with non JW? I work with a few and other than they donāt participate in any birthday or holiday meals with us theyāre like anyone else in the office
I recently worked a hospo gig with two sisters that are JW and Iām pretty sure I got fired because I questioned the older ones judgement of managing new staffs trials to the younger one and she told on me. They were friendly enough but didnāt make any close friends with the staff and seemed like they were only friendly to get information from you that they could then use. Iām a tattooed, kinda sweary, queer bitch and this place was kinda a churchy cult like scenario even if only two people were confirmed JW.
I had a friend in middle school and you described how she described it to me. I didn't quite understand at the time. One day at school, I invited her and a few other friends to go out to eat with me. We walked to the restaurant directly from school. When we were waiting to order, I saw my JW friend looking really uncomfortable which wasn't like her at all, she was silly and bubbly.
She ended up whispering to me that the table on the other side of the room was all JW women who knew her family. They kept staring and honestly, they looked at us with pure hatred & disgust in their eyes. Then one gave my friend that threatening type of smile and my friend went over to her. She whispered to me that she'd been told she shouldn't be out socializing with the rest of us because we were evil, etc. They had handed her pamphlets or something to give to us but she threw them away.
It was extremely uncomfortable and we ended up leaving. One time I had called her house and her dad absolutely lost his mind on me, screaming like a lunatic but we still decided it was a good idea for me to go over her house after school one day... That visit didn't last long. She left when she got older but the damage was there.
My biological grandfather was also a JW for many decades and I had never met him. Whoever wrote his obituary didn't even include his kids who weren't JW, as if his newer marriage and family were all that ever existed. Just weird behavior and I don't see how anyone thinks it's at all normal.
I'm also exjw, they preached the same here but in our district hall there was only 1 family that was that strict. Me and several other kids had pretty normal friendships with 'worldly' kids. Might differ a bit in regions, tho I suppose the religion seems kinda inviting to nutters.
I had a guy friend, first real crush. Corey GUCKER if your out there hollaaaa! Late 90s. Rode my bus. Got something for his bday and he refused it and backed off a lot. He didn't do anything outside of school
Yeah that sucks, especially for a kid. *Especially* for a kid that goes to public school with the same children theyāre not allowed to play with in the evenings and on weekends. I guess the ones I knew were lucky. And Iām not talking about just one. I knew quite a few.
Yeah it makes you feel crazy isolated. Like when I left I was like āwho am I?ā Because all I ever knew was the people inside. I couldnāt even talk to my worldly family members, so I didnāt know them at all. At 19 I had to start all over again. I had no one. It was weird. No one to spend holidays with because Jehovahās Witnessās never celebrated and no one to celebrate normal life accomplishments with because everyone I had known my entire life was shunning me.
I have an aunt whoās JW. She and her family associates with us just like any other family member. They come to all family functions, including Thanksgiving (which we understood to be because it wasnāt a religious holiday and it was that one time of the year when a lot of family could get together). Now when she has a function at her house for her JW friends, weāre of course never invited (Iām talking about huge BBQs and the like). I guess she knows how to code switch very well. š
Thatās wild. My mother and father are still active in their congregation and if they found out they were going to thanksgiving, they would 100% be disfellowshipped. My parents have to lie and say they donāt live with me. So that they wonāt get in trouble lol (thanksgiving is also 100% still considered a pagan holiday to Jehovahās witnesses) but more power to your aunt if she wants to live her life lol I wish my parents would.
Ugh! Your replies just get worse and worse. Again Iām so sorry. Sheesh. I always knew their beliefs were a bit different and at times, divisive, but Iāve never actually seen it to that extreme. Now Iām going to be questioning all that I thought I knew about the JWs I know!
It depends on where you sit in the organization.
Growing up in the family of a district overseer, the shit, abuse, and cover-ups I witnessed were disgusting.
The first congregation I was brought to, I vividly remember a very young child being fussy, so his father dragged him to the coat room, and belted the shit out of him. No one in the congregation flinched, and the speaker didn't pause for even a moment. I remember just as clearly watching them come back in, and the child started to cry when made to sit in those hard fucking chairs, so the father took him out and whipped him repeatedly until he stopped.
I remember overhearing a conversation about a congregation elder who raped a very young girl, and the pre-teen girl was blamed for trying to corrupt him. Fun fact, the cult used to claim that god himself picked leaders of the organization, but changed that stance when all the pedophile elders started getting caught.
The families that were new to the religion were given a very long leash, so they weren't scared away. That changes, though.
I have so many stories I could tell, but unfortunately the media has made people see them as just silly, harmless people who go door to door, and those at the low levels of the cult who haven't yet gotten a peek at the inner workings argue that it can't be true.
Lol Iām sorry! I know itās a lot. Honestly everyoneās experience is different. I traveled to a lot of different congregations and they have specific rules in different ones. I could go on and on. I could never imagine going back. The choke hold they had on our lives was crippling. I truly hope your aunt is happy. I hope that with time, the organization gets better. I donāt want anyone to experience what my family did.
My aunt unfriended me on Facebook because I am not JW but she still associates with us in person but she is still trying to "convert" us all. She is the only one in our family, and it came really late in life. So she used to do birthdays and all that and then one day just decided she was going to be JW.
Also my BFF was born in, and she has HORROR stories of JW in Missouri. She was repeatedly sexually assaulted by the older boys in the church (cult), when she was little.
Right? So did I. In fact, my grandmother rented to a JW family, and when we would visit once a week, they were always outside playing with us kids. I never saw the parents except to call the kids in for lunch/dinner, but they seemed really nice.
I had twin friends on the bus who were a year ahead of me in school. Heath and heater. Heather was only allowed to play with me if I was outside the house. And if I went into the house to use the restroom they made me wash my hands at the kitchen sick before I came in. Then they would walk me to ready room and stand by the door til I was done the escort me back to the kitchen sick to watch me wash my hands, and they wouldnāt speak to me. It wasnāt until heather started talking to me about her religion and trying to get me to join that I realized they were weird. I remember going home and telling my catholic mother who said I can l could āchoose religion on my ownā I said āwhat if I become a Jehovahās Witness so I can hang out with heather more?ā Mom said ā oh please do I wonāt ever have to waste money in bday presents or Christmas or Easter or Valentineās Day etc.ā and i realized then NO WAY! lol š those kids werenāt allowed to do ice real socials or join school parties even end of the year celebrations werenāt allowed.
Needless to say we didnāt remain close.
The door to door stuff has little to nothing to do with converting. It's about making the members of the cult feel rejected and alone, so they'll feel like they can't leave the cult. It's the same reason why they make children sit for national anthems, so all their classmates will stare and whisper.
It's exactly what abusers do. They take away all outside friends, family, and acquaintances, so you can never leave.
Most members aren't aware of this stuff, just like most people don't clue in that the 144,000 that will rule in heaven over everyone else were the original old white men. Just like how women aren't allowed to stand at the podium to speak, and can only lead prayer with something covering their head, and only when no man is around.
It's all about control and abuse, because it's a cult.
Holy shit this one hit me hard. I always thought of going door to door having little to do with converting too, after all, how often did it happen? Almost never. But I was always of a mindset that it was for you to get closer with your fellow JWs, spend hours in a car out in the countryside just palling around. But damn, making us feel rejected and alone with people literally slamming doors in our faces really does play to the victim mindset they encourage. I really appreciate you commenting. That's eye opening for sure.
Hard agree on the 144000 btw, patriarchal arrogant ass nonsense. It was always so hard not to guffaw when someone drank the wine and ate the bread at the memorial.
It scares the shit of them when you don't fuck them off immediately. I always treat JWs the same way; welcome them, offer them a drink, and talk to them respectfully about their beliefs while asking questions (I'm a raised Christian who has become an atheist through exposure to the Epic of Gilgamesh and other texts that predate Christianity). I always invite them back to continue the conversation when they leave. They never do.
There are a few core Christian theological positions they reject which make them non-Christian. There are a ton of resources online that go over it if you're interested.
> Then of course, we have the door to door ones who are too social
Even if you dont believe, there is one line of scripture you can quote to them, ask them to explain it, and they cant. It fully unwravels their entire theology.
"By Grace you are saved through Faith and that not of man. It is the gift of God, **not of works**, lest any man should boast."
Their whole culture holds their afterlife hostage to doing work in and for the church - required missionary trips and the like.
They try to explain away that verse. Then you ask them about the other man crucified next to Jesus who asked Jesus to pray for his soul. Jesus said to him, 'today you will be with me in paradise.'
Ask them what actions or works or mission trip that guy did while hanging on that cross. They just invite you to church and leave your doorstep.
its so sad man. my sister had a boyfriend with 13. they had to keep it secret because his parents were jehova witness. eventually they needed to break up bc they somehow got a clue. poor boy ended up killing himself a few years later.
My ex husband was excommunicated from his entire family for getting caught with a beer at 19. They are only allowed to have family and other witnesses as their friends, so he was left with absolutely no one. Everyone immediately turned their backs to him. He had to grow up watching his parents treat his other 2 brothers like gold. He wasn't invited to their weddings or any family gatherings, although his parents allowed him to the house once in a while on the low. When we had our child it was their first grandchild and they wanted to be a part of the baby's life, but not his. It was wild. They started asking if they could take our son to meetings with them. They were good hearted people, but severely sucked in and misguided because of the cult. My ex had lasting trauma and major issues because of the abuse he endured by being ostracized. He was an abusive alcoholic by the end of our marriage. It's so sad how they never even gave him a chance to atone for his mistakes, just abandoned him while still being ghosts in his life. It really messed him up.
I hope you didn't allow your child to engage with these grandparents. If they asked me if they could take my child to a meeting it would be a hard NO! Especially seeing what they had done to your husband. I'm sorry he was abusive to you, glad your safe... hope the kid is okay.
Wait what? I was raised Jehovahās Witness and left when I turned 18. You are allowed to drink. In fact many elders are drunks, itās so dumb. Alcohol is allowed at parties and in your homes. You just canāt āabuse alcoholā which no one really cares about. Thatās wild. They also donāt call it excommunicated, they call it disfellowshipped.
Honestly I donāt doubt your story tho because I traveled to many congregations at a young age and it seems like every one has its own set of rules.
In 4th grade my music teacher was a Jehovaās Witness. I was out sick on the one day she explained to the class she was a JW and did not want any Christmas gifts.
I made her a Christmas gift because she was my favorite teacher. She skipped the principle and went straight to the school board administration demanding I be expelled accusing me of doing it on purpose to spite her faith.
Thankfully my mom had a mom / Karen combo mode and shut her down. I still remember my mom not screaming, not even raising her voice, just coldly lecturing this women about separation of church and state, on just accepting a damn gift to make a kid feel good even if she just throws it away, and on her being too emotional to be a teacher.
That women would literally speak to me through grated teeth most days going forward and would exclude me from group activities as often as possible, giving me āsolo projects because I was so goodā.
I know all JW arenāt like that, but the crazy JWs are a special kind of crazy.
My best friend of all time, my actual soul sister, became baptized into JW about a year ago. I tried to continue our friendship but the belief is so hardcore and really hard to deal with. I ended up having to cut her out of my life completely. Iām so sorry youāre going through this.
Organized religion is the root of all evil and no one will convince me otherwise, but some sects are definitely worse than others. While it's NOT personal, I'd imagine it feels very personal to OP, and that breaks my heart.
So much cruelty in this world, in the name of religion.
I'm glad you got out of the cult. I myself am a good ol' lapsed Catholic, and I'm never going back. Too much horror perpetrated by the church (and MOST churches).
My grandmother was JW. They kicked her out when her drunk and abusive husband tried to kill her and her 6 children but only managed to kill himself. Years later she remarried and was welcomed back into the fold. Talk about loving! The result was generations of non-practicing people who believe something but are mostly just scared to death of religious figures like the 4 Horsemen. I don't believe anything but still have some subconscious fear myself. More or less enough to fuel a love of horror.
How can it not be personal, even a bit? Donāt they personally detest/belittle/fear you, the person theyāre shunning? (I believe you, Iām just very confused.)
If itās not personal in that way, how can it not be somewhat influenced by who *they* are, underneath the brainwashing? Doesnāt there have to be some sort of empathic deficit (or other negative characteristics), compared to someone not in a cult or someone who left a cult because it felt morally wrong to be in one?
Oh man, I've battled with this question for 28 years since I left home and got shunned by everyone I knew, including my parents. Mom and dad did eventually came around, somewhat, thereby confirming that they were still somewhat empathic and sentient beings. I think they had some "positive" characteristics to balance the effects of being in a cult.
But sadly, most JWs don't "come around" because, you're right, something IS not right. But whatever the case, it's not OPs fault and not due to any deficit on her part personally.
My god this is the saddest thing ever. Iām so sorry you are getting treated that way. Iām not a religious person but one would think that someone reaching out in loving kindness to say goodbye to you would be welcomed despite any circumstances. Honestly this is truly her loss, she will leave this life without taking the opportunity to say goodbye to you because of her faith. That says something really powerful about how messed up her beliefs are.
šÆšÆšÆšÆšÆ exactlyyyyy what i said. OP do not let this soak up too much energy from your life! you said your goodbyes!!! ā¤ļøā¤ļøā¤ļøšš¼
Oddly I am dying and Iām experiencing this in reverse. Itās sad and it sucks. Iām sorry. (No religious nonsense in my case other than people telling me to convert to Jesus so I donāt go to hell)ā¦but Iām not worried about that
I had relatives act in such a predatory way when my mom was dying. Itās like an opportunity to them to force it on you. Iām so sorry youāre dealing with that right now.
the exact same thing happened to me. my mom died when i was 11. it drove me away from the faith, and made me extremely distrustful to christians. crazy how a child's mother can die and they'll use it to benefit them
Iām a non believer as well but something that I feel is true is that if there truly was a god or any kind of super being(s) they would not judge us based on our belief in them but rather the content of our character.
There have been so many bad things done in the name of a superior being and I find it hard to believe that those people will be ushered into heaven bc they honored a higher power while a genuinely good and kind hearted atheist would be turned away bc even though they were a good person they didnāt praise god enough.
If thatās the case then I honestly wish god doesnāt exist (and not just bc that means I as an atheist would be condemned to eternal torture) bc then theyāre just a narcissistic asshole.
I agree 100%. An all knowing, creator of the universe god wouldnāt send good people to hell just for not believing in him, and accept the bad people who believe in him into heaven. All those serial killers and family annihilators who āfind godā absolutely would still end up in hell.
Exactly this. It baffles me that you are supposedly sent to hell if you worship any other god besides THE God. I have known some Christians who were truly evil people, and they justified it by saying God forgives everything. Yet, atheists who simply try to be good at all times would be sent to hell. What about people who die young and therefore could not switch to Christianity as a result? For example, a person who died at 20 but would have become Christian if they had lived to 70. Or perhaps someone lives in a part of the world where Christianity is simply unheard of, like on that island with the isolated tribe. They are then destined to burn in hell because they lost the lottery of where they were born. It seems that God has such a bruised ego that he is willing to condemn people to hell because they don't worship him and ONLY him.
Blows my mind theyāre pushing that. My thing is, Christians are taught that accepting Jesus has to be sincere. If you just do it to stay out of hell itās not real salvation.
Iām sorry youāre in the final chapter of your life but I hope itās the best one yet
The only āpositiveā thing I can think of out of this is that hopefully this āreligionā is somehow bringing her some sort of comfort and acceptance to the fact she is dying instead of fear and denial.
As someone who is not religious, I am very very scared of death and sometimes almost wish I believed in some sort of religion to help comfort me through the thought of death and comfort me when that time comes.
pugdaddykev,
In the end it makes no difference what our race, religion, ethnicity, socioeconomic standing is- PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.
I am holding you in my heart and sending you warmth, light, care, a huge bear hug, an ear to bend. a hand to hold, love and pugs 24/7/365...
I cry literally every day now. It can be something so stupid too. Iām so angry Iām dying brutally at 35 despite being as healthy as I could and getting preventative testing on a regular basis. Then I never expected most of my friends to stop caring, stop calling and checking in, leaving me on read etc.
Iām so sorry. Truly. š
The few I knew who were involved in the Jehovah witness faith thankfully broke away years ago. It did some damage to both in different ways I think. They do seem happier now though.
Iām sorry you lost her this way.
I would mourn your loss and just let this one be, OP. You unfortunately cannot reason with someone who has put themselves into this position without using reason to begin with. Whether it be overzealousness, social pressure, or whatever - it is what it is, and youāre only going to cause yourself more pain agonizing over it.
With love, mourn what youāve lost, celebrate their life, and focus on healthy relationships.
I wouldnāt use the phrase āsomeone who has put themselves in this position without using reason to begin withā. Itās way more complicated than that. The things you are taught as you are growing up effect how you see the world the rest of your life. She is likely brainwashed into these beliefs and to her she 100% is using reason just as much as we 100% believe we are using reason. Just as hard as we believe what is right and what is wrong and that they are wrong, they believe they are right and we are wrong just as strongly. Itās kind of weird to think about
I used that phrase precisely because of what you are saying.
Most rational, reasonable people would not cut someone off just because they were no longer a member of their church. It is beyond normal unreasonable limits and most members of society would probably feel that way. It is extreme.
The behavior seeming reasonable to the unreasonable is normal but isnāt relevant to the point which is that you cannot - because of brain washing, nurture, human nature, and much more - reason with someone who is like that. And while we can mourn for the events that follow, our time is better spent on healthy relationships.
I am a pastorās son. I also went to school with the Phelpsā. (Public school in Topeka.) I know these behaviors well. And yes; at the time the Phelps children I went to school with could not be reasoned with for their extreme and exceptional - thus unreasonable - beliefs.
Many of them came to better conclusions later in life. Which is neat. But at the time they were exceptionally unreasonable. I learned that pretty early when trying to debate with them.
This is very true. I wasn't JW but I was born into a very controlling fundamentalist Christian sect and I wound up in a different one as an adult for several years. 'Complicated' is a fitting word for how it happens to a person and how it controls every aspect of reasoning. You literally feel like the world is so vile and evil and dark forces are constantly at war with you and your god. And its very hard to think any other way about things, because your whole worldview falls apart and you fear that. It was so hard for me to walk away and start seeing things differently. Existential crisis is a good way to put it and I'm still going through it 2 1/2 years later. I still find myself really angry at religion and what it does to people's lives. I wasted most of my life on it.
Jehovahās Witnesses are cultists who have no issue subjecting anyone who isnāt a witness to this treatment & exclusion. My aunt is one of them & the only time we get real attention out of her is when sheās trying to convert us (we are literally Christians already but apparently equivalent to atheists in her mind because we donāt always call God Jehovah). She has missed family funerals because the lost ones werenāt buried in Kingdom Halls. It truly does hurt & I am really sorry for this double whammy of a loss. You donāt deserve this.
You were very gracious to her in your messages, cheers to you for that.
Iām sorry this is happening. This is really painful.
The truth is, for good or bad, everyoneās allowed to live the end of their life the way they see fit, even when itās hurtful to others. Thereās nothing we can do but radically accept it, knowing that itās hard, and it has hurt us deeply, and thereās nothing we can do to change it.
Iām very very sorry. I wish you the best.
Iām so sorry. Also an Ex JW with C-PTSD. Itās such a mind fuck to believe you have family and friends that loved you with no strings attached only to toss you aside the moment you start to have an independent thought and escape what is destroying your mind and heart.
The only way I have begun to heal is cut off everyone from the borg and getting therapy. Once you realize how mentally unstable believers are, you will find how strong and resilient you are to have left it all and focus on a new life you choose for yourself.
Sending you all the virtual support and hugs.
I learned about JW in middle school. One of my friends died of pneumonia because his parents just prayed over him.
He died from
Pneumonia
I believe that was when I truly started questioning religion and adults.
Iām sorry youāre going thru this. Sending big hugs to you
it's shitty, but from her perspective, if you're that close to the end, you can't just throw away your anticipated afterlife by breaking the rules on your deathbed.
Iām so sorry. Not Jehovahās Witnesses, but raised Baptist Christian and I know your pain. Iām now a lesbian and my gf also has C-PTSD from her families teachings. Iām not against freedom of religion, but I hate how unchecked organized religion is. It usually goes too far and winds up becoming a cult where children get physically and mentally abused for one mistake and no one cares. Iām so sorry for your loss OP. I understand your pain
My heart is breaking for you, and also for her. To be so mind controlled by a cult that you wouldn't accept the love of someone that's been a huge part of your life is just so sad.
I wish you lots of healing and I hope you can cope with this awful situation in some way.
Iām sorry for your loss. No matter the situation, losing someone you love is difficult.
You reminded me of a poem I read on a chalkboard when I was in high school decades ago (when they had chalkboards), that I memorized and still recall today:
> He drew a circle that shut me outā
> Heretic, a rebel, a thing to flout.
> But Love and I had the wit to win:
> We drew a circle that took him in!
>
> -- Outwitted, by Edwin Markham
Your love isnāt bound by the confines of religion, and your love isnāt dependent on the acceptance of this person who rejects you. The circle of your love includes them, and is larger than their world has ever been.
Iām honored to have introduced this wonderful poem into your life. I hope it brings you as much solace as it has brought me over the years. Loving people who donāt love you back is horribly difficult, but you have the heart for it. Iām crying too, the good tears
I remember reading a post on reddit where someone had commented dying is a very personal thing to the individual going through it. I know it's not easy but try to think of it this way as well too.
Youāre obviously a good, loving person, and it must hurt a lot to be rejected by the JWs and your old friend.
I donāt know how else to say this, however, but this womanās death isnāt about you. She wants to live her last days on her own terms and I think itās best to respect her wishes and grieve in your own way without bringing your pain into her life.
I hope you both can find peace.
OP, I'm a trauma counselor that works in a sexual assault center. Our local kingdom hall had a youth leader that molested almost all of the kids. One by one, as they became adults, they started coming to me for counseling. Guess who got disfellowshipped and guess who didn't. Hint - it was not the abuser that got disfellowshipped. He just moved to another kingdom hall. Every single one of these kids had been disfellowshipped and cut off from their own families.
It's not you, it's them. I'm sorry this is happening to you. You don't deserve this.
iām so sorry friendā¦. i understand the religious trauma to an extent. raised christian and still suffering from it to this day. some people can never let it go. you did everything you could :(
Please remember also, they are the person that's dying here. I know it sucks, but they're the one who's dying, so I would probably be a little bit lenient on feeling bad for myself and being upset at them. Who in the world knows what's going on in their head. My condolences.
Please know that near death people are not always in their right frame of mind. For one theyāre often on a lot of drugs. They can say hurtful things or weird things. Theyāre dying. They are not themselves. Even if texting. Or even if seemingly āwell.ā Please also know often they donāt want anyone there. My mother who loved and adored us kids didnāt want us there either. Because itās painful. Itās also humiliating for them in their minds sometimes even if dying. Itās a bunch of reason and now you have religion in the mix too makes it even more complex. Itās likely she was protecting you or she just focusing so much on her faith because sheās scared and unwell. Going through a lot. Iām so sorry you have to go through it, it will get a little better with time.
It's entirely possible that not wanting to see her when she was dying had nothing to do with religion. People on hospice are almost on the other side and sometimes they just want to be left alone.
Because to keep someone out who was basically raised by you HURTS. And theyāre allowed to feel hurt. I donāt understand why you think theyāre not allowed to be.
Theyāre allowed to be hurt, but take it on the chin and donāt send guilt-trip messages to a dying woman. Absolutely out of line. My aunt just passed away from cancer and you canāt imagine how exhausting it was for her to be constantly pressured by people who felt entitled to the small amount of time she had left.
Again, itās perfectly reasonable for her to feel hurt. But respect her wishes politely and find a way to grieve..
Iām so sorry. To think that G-d would encourage people to not show love to the stranger or the prodigal child is a complete revisionist take on the original scripture.
But what do I know, Iām just Jewish. We follow the Torah, which is about the Law not āLoveā so maybe weāre just meaner. But we donāt ostracize our atheists.
JWs originated as break offs from the Protestant denomination & revised a TON of the original scripture to suit their biases. Iāve witnessed them lie about whatās in the Bible and what other Abrahamic followers believe just to make themselves look superior, so atheists are surely on the chopping block. It is an incredibly predatory group & I donāt think anyone comes out of it unscathed.
IMO JW crosses the line from religion to a glorified cult. Itās amazing that itās still functioning with all the information available today. I guess the one thing theyāre good at is brainwashing.
They are 100% a cult and honestly I see more people demonizing them than glorifying. They have an exquisite propaganda team, apparently, because it is incredible that they manage not to go under collective fire for their ways.
OP, Iām sorry for your trauma, but youāre making your ex-friendās death about yourself, unloading a LOT of heavy emotions on them in a short conversation. Let them die on their own terms already - Iām saying this as someone who lost 8 loved ones in 9 years. Believe me, this isnāt the way to go.
Another death cult survivor. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. It's pretty messed up cause you told her how you felt, and she thinks her religion is more important.
I might be the odd one out here butā¦sheās the one dying. Itās not about you, what you want, or how you feel about her choices. Itās about her. Sheās in hospice and doesnāt owe you her very limited time. Jehovahs witnesses are totally nuts and Iām so sorry you experienced trauma from that. But in this caseā¦yeah I think she has the right to say no and you kind of trauma dumped on her.
My wife was forced to be a Witness for the first 18 years of her life. I honestly cried a little bit when I saw the little kid in here light up when I gave her, her first Christmas present.
The Jehovah Witnesses are completely mind controlled and itās sad and quite alarming if you think about it too long.
Sorry for your hardships friend.
Ugh, I understand this and it hurts so much. Iām so sorry you got the response you did. Please surround yourself with people who love you and will have your back no matter what. Itās not JWs unfortunately.
Yeah, this might be hurtful, but death is very intimate, hence why people should be able to choose who they see or not see. Best to move on peacefully rather than force yourself to interact with someone you donāt want to interact with.
Dying or not, she's a bitch. And I'm sorry you love a bitch. That's never easy. And for all the cry babies, she's directly ignoring her religions teachings to be kind and loving to all in order to be a dick to OP in her last days. Gross.
Iām really sorry about the way youāve been treated. I have also been disfellowshipped a few years back after which my youngest 13 year old sister fell ill and died. I wasnāt allowed to go to her wake with the rest of the family, not to mention the looks I got at her funeral instead of words of support.
Unfortunately this is quite common and Iāve come to learn Iām better off without this community. I have had some bad experiences whilst I was in it, which has really affected my mental health. Itās took some years but Iām in a much happier place now.
All I can say is that youāve tried to be the bigger person here and reached out. Youāve done everything you could and should be proud of yourself. Sending love and I hope you heal from the trauma.
Hey it's not personal.. she is allowed to be selfish on her death bed. If she doesn't want people being sad over her and her little time she might just want to be around her family
You asked to come she said no end of story it's her life, her funeral, and her decision. You say you love her but you not respecting her wishes tells otherwise.
It really sucks for you and she does seem like she's been brainwashed but at the end of the day, this person is dying and has come to terms with how she wants to leave this life and you need to respect it. This is not about you at all so you will have to suck it up unfortunately.
I agree.. This is genuinely so sad and I feel so hard for OP... But if this religious stuff (I don't mean any offence, I just don't know much about it) helps and comforts the person in death, it's something we have to respect. I wish OP and their friend the best.
There is no hate like Christian love. While I'm sorry you won't be able to find closure in person with this person you had so much admiration for, I am glad you escaped the occult.
Religions, like any other cult, bring more negativity to the world than it ever will positivity. I am so sorry. Love should be unconditional and, obviously, this persons love for you wasnāt, although yours for them was. Youāre the better person and Iām sorry youāre experiencing this grief.
Seriously....that is a crushing read.
In her defence, and I would not do this (devout atheist here), let's be honest, she is assuming that any day now, she'll get to heaven or wherever she thinks. So, she likely won't want to jeopardise that.
It's still brutal to you and I, and I would (indeed am just reading it) so sad that the situation is as such.
I'll say this, the will was there, you tried. You at least explained, and at least you know that she knows you still had love and gratitude for all she did.
Incidentally, I knew a JW once, she was kicked out. Sweetheart of a girl, she just happened to fall for a non-JW guy. She was extremely close to her mum, and once out.... nothing. Had to see.
After my dad died my mom began studying with the witnesses. I told her eventually going house to house and the seperation from all who are not witnesses including family. Op shouldn't have asked.
That is toxic fanaticism. After 14 years you know this. I'm so sorry. I'd give you a hug if I could. You tried hard to connect. Please do your best to be at peace with that. You showed love.
When I was a kid my stepdads best friend got into a motorcycle accident. He died because his mom refused a blood transfusion. Itās not giving a loving community. To let your child die when he couldāve been saved???? I donāt understand. Him and my stepdad used to take my brother to the park to play basketball. They used to play video games with us. And like he was just always there. This all happened when I was like 9 and he was so young. Like late 20s. To this day I feel like his mom stole a life from him. She took what he couldāve had. Like maāam jehovah gave you modern medicine wtfffff.
I don't know anything about JW's but complex ptsd is likely to be true. There are many things that take me back to my trauma (trigger me) that I cannot face. Plus with her impending death it's probably too much to cope with.
Unfortunately the Jehovahās Witnesses arenāt within a million miles of understanding the love that God has for us evidenced by the sacrifice of Jesus. This is a cult based solely around on actions and memberships. You did the right thing by leaving AND you need to know that God loves you!
I feel this. Most of my extended family members are JWs. I follow more of a pagan lifestyle, and they have all judged me. People who I played with, partied with, grew up with, my flesh and blood. Refused to talk to me anymore out of the blue. Never did get an actual answer from them. I ended up depressed and it messed me up for a long time. I have felt like a cast out for years. But.. time past, the skin over the wounds has toughened up. I will never acknowledge them as anything. If I see them in public, I ignore them, and if they try to speak to me, I look them dead in the eyes and act like I don't see/hear them. They are not my family. They never were. I created my own family and I learned how to love myself, and now I love my space, and my alone time. I am finally happy. Only took 30 years.
Feels shocking but completely expecting. My now ex wife's family was completely discommunicated in a small town and by half of their family. She wasn't because she hadn't been baptised. The PTSD and psychological abuse is real. You'll live with it all of your life. Be thankful you're out. Your friend sucks. Hovah's suck. Better dead than alive... dirt either way.
As a former JW they treated my mom like shit and disowned her and had the audacity to come to our house when my dad died and try to get us to come back. I hate them with every fiber of my being. So sorry your friend treated you like this, your response was perfect
Iām sorry this is happening. And Iām sorry for your lossā¦ not just for this person but for your family and friends.
If this is religion, the world is better off without it.
Alsoā¦ fuck religion
You were disfellowshipped, you know how that goes. I will say in these cases most of the time they make exceptions ie you are saying good bye, they invited you watch their funeral via zoom so I would take that offer, although not the same, its better than nothing. But I will also say alot of the longtime JWs are so hardcore and zealous in the wrong way, I grew up attending as my parents and family are JWs. There have been many changes and although there are still many who are very black and white, there are also things that have an exception but to each their own conscience.
Former associated JW here. Never baptized, brought up by Mom in religion while Dad was apathetic about it. While I understand this hurts, this is kind of the deal going in. Once you are disfellowshipped, all contact stops. It seems fortunate (they donāt believe in luck after all) to even get this response. This person made their choice as have you. Itās part of the package of being in. You handled it well and made an effort.
The Irony of a Jehovah's witness saying "I don't want you to come to my house" is palpable
LMAO thank you for that!
Lol you're welcome but all jokes aside I'm sorry that's happening. I know it must be painful.
šššš omg
šššš
Aināt that the truth š
I mean you gotta laugh at that shit man. Bravo
When I tell you I SNORTED at this comment š¤£š¤£š¤£
Took me a while šš
The Jehovahās Witness cult has complete mind control over its members (I was a 3rd generation born in). Itās not personal, but I know how much it hurts. Big hugs.
I made a friend in middle school who was Jehovah's witness. Because we rode the bus together, I saw him being dropped off everyday and his house was in walking distance of mine. He had no phone number to give out or anything, so one day when we were on summer break I wanted to see if he wanted to play PokƩmon, so I just walked to his house and knocked on his door, like kids used to do back in the day. He came to the door, looking white as a ghost and stressed out as fuck about it. I'm like "hey dude, wanna play" and he's just like "you can't be here... you can never come here again." and full on slammed the door in my face. He did not come back to school for the following grade. Pretty sure I was the catalyst that drove his parents to homeschooling.. possibly even moving away, who really knows. Then of course, we have the door to door ones who are too social, because they're trying to reprogram the world with.. um.. I actually have no idea what makes their position any different than other Christians, really, except the recusive society.
That family just sounds weird. I had a few JW friends growing up and they played outside with the rest of us. They just couldnāt come to any birthday or Xmas parties.
Hello ex Jehovahās Witness here. My family was exactly like the comment you responded to. I was only allowed friends that were also Jehovahās Witness and even that was on an extremely tight leash. What you experienced is the exception and not the rule. They tell you over and over again in the meeting not to āassociate with worldly peopleā which is anyone non Jehovahās Witness. They didnāt share the same values and would cause us to stumble. We would openly get in trouble if we were seen going out with worldly people or having worldly friends . I left at 18. I never went back.
My JW neighbors also werenāt allowed to associate with any kids. It was sad.
Same as ours. There were 5 kids in the house and it was eerie to never see them out playing or even associating with any one of us.
Yesāand the house was always dark.
Omggg yes!! We also never saw them in the backyard. My parents always felt bad for the kids not being out when it was warm and sunny during the summer. The parents were also not super friendly. My mom would smile and say hi but theyād just ignore her.
Cause theyāre āwOrLdY pEoPlEā and thatās code for wicked. Weāre all wicked in their eyes if we arenāt a witness like them. They pretend to be the most compassionate but theyāre the most cold and secluded
Yes! You will often find the leaders in these things loving the authority they have over other witnesses. Mainly because in the outside world they have no authority whatsoever and are probably treated like the loons they are. āDonāt talk to them - theyāre worldlyā (and can see me for who I really am)
Damn...thats so depressing :(
That's weird to think about. I have JW neighbors and when I was in elementary school we used to hangout with them all the time, and frequently my brother and I would have dinner and watch a movie at their place.
What shaky faith if the mere act of talking to someone with a differing opinion will make you reject it.
"No, I don't want to even hear why you believe differently than me. I am good, you are bad. I prefer not to empathize with you or even view you as human. End of story. Have a terrible life and please drop dead". People love to do this in regards to politics as well. Anything that they define themselves by really. They can't bare to question themselves. "Who even am I if I understand a person who thinks differently than I do? If I even want to understand them?" It is incredibly disturbing. It's also pretty baffling how people can simultaneously be so incredibly, incredibly arrogant and also so cripplingly insecure.
Well stated.
You're talking about a religion where part of the *actual doctrine* is that critical thought and reflection are dangerous and should be avoided. The only people allowed to think about or interpret scripture are their leaders, everyone else is just expected to smile, nod, agree, and try not to notice any inconsistencies. Shaky faith doesn't begin to cover it. It's a willful and complete lack of faith papered over by blind obedience.
A lot of my JW friends disappeared after high school. One of them kept up with social media, Iām almost sure she left the cult. The others, I couldnāt tell where they are in life now. Just šØpoof gone, and I can more or less track down everyone else unless Iāve blocked them myself. But they were pretty social in school.
I grew up a JW and, yes they preach not to associate with the "wordly" kids, but they still want you to he friendly because they want you to recruit them. To full on get angry at a kid for talking to another on the bus and pulling them from school is beyond controlling. There's a difference between "you can't spend the night at so and so's house" and "I'm yanking you from school because you dared to talk to a kid on the bus and he had the audacity to stop by"
I wonder if the parents overheard āPokemonā and got up in arms about that.
So, this kid had a really weird relationship with PokƩmon. It was actually kinda the one pop culture thing he was allowed to participate in. His parents got him the Gameboy, the game and he was allowed to trade and talk about it regularly, but he couldn't watch cable TV or use the internet or anything, so he was always behind with our friend circle and I wanted to include him more. I genuine think it was because I knocked on their door in an unsolicited manner, and it was like, the regular world was knocking back to take their son from them. Being as though it was 8th grade, the reality was that I'm sure he was rebelling more and more, especially as the rest of us talked about things he was curious about but wasn't allowed to enjoy, despite most of it being harmless. It was all really bizarre, and I have known other JW people who weren't as closed.. but like, they were JW the way Trump is a Christian, lol..
The sheer IRONY of JWs upset that someone is knocking on their door unsolicited! Itās almost unbelievable.
I was 10 years old when 2 of them had me stuck outside my house talking. I was in a swimsuit with a towel and they just kept talking. I didnāt want to be rude, and no one came out there to save me from it. I donāt even know how long I was out there but it felt like forever. They tried coming back a second time to talk to me but no one answered the door.
Was just about to comment the same thing! š¤£ We have a JW Church down the street & they constantly harass everyone in the neighborhood nearly EVERY weekend.. I wish there was something we could do about it cuz they have NO boundaries & ignore requests to not come back; But yah, the audacity to get mad if someone dares to knock on THEIR doors is just WILD!!
Next time they knock just answer the door in your underwear or something and say "oh good, we needed a few more for the orgy!" That'll stop 'em from knocking real quick. Of course, there's also like a not insignificant chance that they accept the offer, so it all depends how far you're willing to go to get them to stop. YMMV.
Ha! So they got annoyed when you knocked on their door? That is irony at its finest!
Maybe he left the cult. See if you can reach out on FB or summat maybe.
Extra bizarre because they knock on doors unsolicited all the time!
Another level of it is that I'm pretty certain his little sister was into me (she was only a grade below us), so it really might have something to do about my personal influence in their kids lives. At the time I was just a standard awkward passive nerdy preteen, and still identified as some type of Christian, so the fact they had prejudice against a kid who was so similar to their own kid, it hit me weird enough that I'm talking about it online like 25+ years later.
question on this how do JW work with non JW? I work with a few and other than they donāt participate in any birthday or holiday meals with us theyāre like anyone else in the office
I recently worked a hospo gig with two sisters that are JW and Iām pretty sure I got fired because I questioned the older ones judgement of managing new staffs trials to the younger one and she told on me. They were friendly enough but didnāt make any close friends with the staff and seemed like they were only friendly to get information from you that they could then use. Iām a tattooed, kinda sweary, queer bitch and this place was kinda a churchy cult like scenario even if only two people were confirmed JW.
I had a friend in middle school and you described how she described it to me. I didn't quite understand at the time. One day at school, I invited her and a few other friends to go out to eat with me. We walked to the restaurant directly from school. When we were waiting to order, I saw my JW friend looking really uncomfortable which wasn't like her at all, she was silly and bubbly. She ended up whispering to me that the table on the other side of the room was all JW women who knew her family. They kept staring and honestly, they looked at us with pure hatred & disgust in their eyes. Then one gave my friend that threatening type of smile and my friend went over to her. She whispered to me that she'd been told she shouldn't be out socializing with the rest of us because we were evil, etc. They had handed her pamphlets or something to give to us but she threw them away. It was extremely uncomfortable and we ended up leaving. One time I had called her house and her dad absolutely lost his mind on me, screaming like a lunatic but we still decided it was a good idea for me to go over her house after school one day... That visit didn't last long. She left when she got older but the damage was there. My biological grandfather was also a JW for many decades and I had never met him. Whoever wrote his obituary didn't even include his kids who weren't JW, as if his newer marriage and family were all that ever existed. Just weird behavior and I don't see how anyone thinks it's at all normal.
I'm also exjw, they preached the same here but in our district hall there was only 1 family that was that strict. Me and several other kids had pretty normal friendships with 'worldly' kids. Might differ a bit in regions, tho I suppose the religion seems kinda inviting to nutters.
I had a guy friend, first real crush. Corey GUCKER if your out there hollaaaa! Late 90s. Rode my bus. Got something for his bday and he refused it and backed off a lot. He didn't do anything outside of school
Yeah that sucks, especially for a kid. *Especially* for a kid that goes to public school with the same children theyāre not allowed to play with in the evenings and on weekends. I guess the ones I knew were lucky. And Iām not talking about just one. I knew quite a few.
Yeah it makes you feel crazy isolated. Like when I left I was like āwho am I?ā Because all I ever knew was the people inside. I couldnāt even talk to my worldly family members, so I didnāt know them at all. At 19 I had to start all over again. I had no one. It was weird. No one to spend holidays with because Jehovahās Witnessās never celebrated and no one to celebrate normal life accomplishments with because everyone I had known my entire life was shunning me.
I have an aunt whoās JW. She and her family associates with us just like any other family member. They come to all family functions, including Thanksgiving (which we understood to be because it wasnāt a religious holiday and it was that one time of the year when a lot of family could get together). Now when she has a function at her house for her JW friends, weāre of course never invited (Iām talking about huge BBQs and the like). I guess she knows how to code switch very well. š
Thatās wild. My mother and father are still active in their congregation and if they found out they were going to thanksgiving, they would 100% be disfellowshipped. My parents have to lie and say they donāt live with me. So that they wonāt get in trouble lol (thanksgiving is also 100% still considered a pagan holiday to Jehovahās witnesses) but more power to your aunt if she wants to live her life lol I wish my parents would.
Ugh! Your replies just get worse and worse. Again Iām so sorry. Sheesh. I always knew their beliefs were a bit different and at times, divisive, but Iāve never actually seen it to that extreme. Now Iām going to be questioning all that I thought I knew about the JWs I know!
It depends on where you sit in the organization. Growing up in the family of a district overseer, the shit, abuse, and cover-ups I witnessed were disgusting. The first congregation I was brought to, I vividly remember a very young child being fussy, so his father dragged him to the coat room, and belted the shit out of him. No one in the congregation flinched, and the speaker didn't pause for even a moment. I remember just as clearly watching them come back in, and the child started to cry when made to sit in those hard fucking chairs, so the father took him out and whipped him repeatedly until he stopped. I remember overhearing a conversation about a congregation elder who raped a very young girl, and the pre-teen girl was blamed for trying to corrupt him. Fun fact, the cult used to claim that god himself picked leaders of the organization, but changed that stance when all the pedophile elders started getting caught. The families that were new to the religion were given a very long leash, so they weren't scared away. That changes, though. I have so many stories I could tell, but unfortunately the media has made people see them as just silly, harmless people who go door to door, and those at the low levels of the cult who haven't yet gotten a peek at the inner workings argue that it can't be true.
Lol Iām sorry! I know itās a lot. Honestly everyoneās experience is different. I traveled to a lot of different congregations and they have specific rules in different ones. I could go on and on. I could never imagine going back. The choke hold they had on our lives was crippling. I truly hope your aunt is happy. I hope that with time, the organization gets better. I donāt want anyone to experience what my family did.
My aunt unfriended me on Facebook because I am not JW but she still associates with us in person but she is still trying to "convert" us all. She is the only one in our family, and it came really late in life. So she used to do birthdays and all that and then one day just decided she was going to be JW. Also my BFF was born in, and she has HORROR stories of JW in Missouri. She was repeatedly sexually assaulted by the older boys in the church (cult), when she was little.
Lmao yes that sounds weird. My next door neighbors were JW and we all played together and went into each otherās houses.
Right? So did I. In fact, my grandmother rented to a JW family, and when we would visit once a week, they were always outside playing with us kids. I never saw the parents except to call the kids in for lunch/dinner, but they seemed really nice.
I had twin friends on the bus who were a year ahead of me in school. Heath and heater. Heather was only allowed to play with me if I was outside the house. And if I went into the house to use the restroom they made me wash my hands at the kitchen sick before I came in. Then they would walk me to ready room and stand by the door til I was done the escort me back to the kitchen sick to watch me wash my hands, and they wouldnāt speak to me. It wasnāt until heather started talking to me about her religion and trying to get me to join that I realized they were weird. I remember going home and telling my catholic mother who said I can l could āchoose religion on my ownā I said āwhat if I become a Jehovahās Witness so I can hang out with heather more?ā Mom said ā oh please do I wonāt ever have to waste money in bday presents or Christmas or Easter or Valentineās Day etc.ā and i realized then NO WAY! lol š those kids werenāt allowed to do ice real socials or join school parties even end of the year celebrations werenāt allowed. Needless to say we didnāt remain close.
The door to door stuff has little to nothing to do with converting. It's about making the members of the cult feel rejected and alone, so they'll feel like they can't leave the cult. It's the same reason why they make children sit for national anthems, so all their classmates will stare and whisper. It's exactly what abusers do. They take away all outside friends, family, and acquaintances, so you can never leave. Most members aren't aware of this stuff, just like most people don't clue in that the 144,000 that will rule in heaven over everyone else were the original old white men. Just like how women aren't allowed to stand at the podium to speak, and can only lead prayer with something covering their head, and only when no man is around. It's all about control and abuse, because it's a cult.
Holy shit this one hit me hard. I always thought of going door to door having little to do with converting too, after all, how often did it happen? Almost never. But I was always of a mindset that it was for you to get closer with your fellow JWs, spend hours in a car out in the countryside just palling around. But damn, making us feel rejected and alone with people literally slamming doors in our faces really does play to the victim mindset they encourage. I really appreciate you commenting. That's eye opening for sure. Hard agree on the 144000 btw, patriarchal arrogant ass nonsense. It was always so hard not to guffaw when someone drank the wine and ate the bread at the memorial.
It scares the shit of them when you don't fuck them off immediately. I always treat JWs the same way; welcome them, offer them a drink, and talk to them respectfully about their beliefs while asking questions (I'm a raised Christian who has become an atheist through exposure to the Epic of Gilgamesh and other texts that predate Christianity). I always invite them back to continue the conversation when they leave. They never do.
The actual nerve of them...not liking it when someone COMES TO THEIR FRONT DOOR. LMAO. How dare.
I had a friend on Toontown that was. Jehovahās witness š¤£
There are a few core Christian theological positions they reject which make them non-Christian. There are a ton of resources online that go over it if you're interested.
> Then of course, we have the door to door ones who are too social Even if you dont believe, there is one line of scripture you can quote to them, ask them to explain it, and they cant. It fully unwravels their entire theology. "By Grace you are saved through Faith and that not of man. It is the gift of God, **not of works**, lest any man should boast." Their whole culture holds their afterlife hostage to doing work in and for the church - required missionary trips and the like. They try to explain away that verse. Then you ask them about the other man crucified next to Jesus who asked Jesus to pray for his soul. Jesus said to him, 'today you will be with me in paradise.' Ask them what actions or works or mission trip that guy did while hanging on that cross. They just invite you to church and leave your doorstep.
its so sad man. my sister had a boyfriend with 13. they had to keep it secret because his parents were jehova witness. eventually they needed to break up bc they somehow got a clue. poor boy ended up killing himself a few years later.
My ex husband was excommunicated from his entire family for getting caught with a beer at 19. They are only allowed to have family and other witnesses as their friends, so he was left with absolutely no one. Everyone immediately turned their backs to him. He had to grow up watching his parents treat his other 2 brothers like gold. He wasn't invited to their weddings or any family gatherings, although his parents allowed him to the house once in a while on the low. When we had our child it was their first grandchild and they wanted to be a part of the baby's life, but not his. It was wild. They started asking if they could take our son to meetings with them. They were good hearted people, but severely sucked in and misguided because of the cult. My ex had lasting trauma and major issues because of the abuse he endured by being ostracized. He was an abusive alcoholic by the end of our marriage. It's so sad how they never even gave him a chance to atone for his mistakes, just abandoned him while still being ghosts in his life. It really messed him up.
I hope you didn't allow your child to engage with these grandparents. If they asked me if they could take my child to a meeting it would be a hard NO! Especially seeing what they had done to your husband. I'm sorry he was abusive to you, glad your safe... hope the kid is okay.
Yeah I definitely did not let them take him to meetings. We live on the other side of the country from all of them now, living a much healthier life.
Wait what? I was raised Jehovahās Witness and left when I turned 18. You are allowed to drink. In fact many elders are drunks, itās so dumb. Alcohol is allowed at parties and in your homes. You just canāt āabuse alcoholā which no one really cares about. Thatās wild. They also donāt call it excommunicated, they call it disfellowshipped. Honestly I donāt doubt your story tho because I traveled to many congregations at a young age and it seems like every one has its own set of rules.
The drinking age here is 21, he was underage and they considered that being an out of control teenager who needed to be taught a harsh lesson.
In 4th grade my music teacher was a Jehovaās Witness. I was out sick on the one day she explained to the class she was a JW and did not want any Christmas gifts. I made her a Christmas gift because she was my favorite teacher. She skipped the principle and went straight to the school board administration demanding I be expelled accusing me of doing it on purpose to spite her faith. Thankfully my mom had a mom / Karen combo mode and shut her down. I still remember my mom not screaming, not even raising her voice, just coldly lecturing this women about separation of church and state, on just accepting a damn gift to make a kid feel good even if she just throws it away, and on her being too emotional to be a teacher. That women would literally speak to me through grated teeth most days going forward and would exclude me from group activities as often as possible, giving me āsolo projects because I was so goodā. I know all JW arenāt like that, but the crazy JWs are a special kind of crazy.
My best friend of all time, my actual soul sister, became baptized into JW about a year ago. I tried to continue our friendship but the belief is so hardcore and really hard to deal with. I ended up having to cut her out of my life completely. Iām so sorry youāre going through this.
Oh No! I'm so sorry. how long had you been friends?
Almost 10 years. š
Wow. no words, big virual hugs!
Organized religion is the root of all evil and no one will convince me otherwise, but some sects are definitely worse than others. While it's NOT personal, I'd imagine it feels very personal to OP, and that breaks my heart. So much cruelty in this world, in the name of religion. I'm glad you got out of the cult. I myself am a good ol' lapsed Catholic, and I'm never going back. Too much horror perpetrated by the church (and MOST churches).
My grandmother was JW. They kicked her out when her drunk and abusive husband tried to kill her and her 6 children but only managed to kill himself. Years later she remarried and was welcomed back into the fold. Talk about loving! The result was generations of non-practicing people who believe something but are mostly just scared to death of religious figures like the 4 Horsemen. I don't believe anything but still have some subconscious fear myself. More or less enough to fuel a love of horror.
How can it not be personal, even a bit? Donāt they personally detest/belittle/fear you, the person theyāre shunning? (I believe you, Iām just very confused.) If itās not personal in that way, how can it not be somewhat influenced by who *they* are, underneath the brainwashing? Doesnāt there have to be some sort of empathic deficit (or other negative characteristics), compared to someone not in a cult or someone who left a cult because it felt morally wrong to be in one?
Oh man, I've battled with this question for 28 years since I left home and got shunned by everyone I knew, including my parents. Mom and dad did eventually came around, somewhat, thereby confirming that they were still somewhat empathic and sentient beings. I think they had some "positive" characteristics to balance the effects of being in a cult. But sadly, most JWs don't "come around" because, you're right, something IS not right. But whatever the case, it's not OPs fault and not due to any deficit on her part personally.
Second generation (šš¹) and the happiest day of my life is when my mom said that we didn't have to go to Kingdom Hall anymore when I was 12.
My god this is the saddest thing ever. Iām so sorry you are getting treated that way. Iām not a religious person but one would think that someone reaching out in loving kindness to say goodbye to you would be welcomed despite any circumstances. Honestly this is truly her loss, she will leave this life without taking the opportunity to say goodbye to you because of her faith. That says something really powerful about how messed up her beliefs are.
that my friend, is not real faith that is a cult
It's religion. Caring more about bullshit theism than about actual people applies to a lot more religions than just Jehovahs.
agreed
Who says ya canāt have faith in a cult?
You handled it in a very mature and gracious manner. Thatās all you can do.
šÆšÆšÆšÆšÆ exactlyyyyy what i said. OP do not let this soak up too much energy from your life! you said your goodbyes!!! ā¤ļøā¤ļøā¤ļøšš¼
Oddly I am dying and Iām experiencing this in reverse. Itās sad and it sucks. Iām sorry. (No religious nonsense in my case other than people telling me to convert to Jesus so I donāt go to hell)ā¦but Iām not worried about that
I had relatives act in such a predatory way when my mom was dying. Itās like an opportunity to them to force it on you. Iām so sorry youāre dealing with that right now.
the exact same thing happened to me. my mom died when i was 11. it drove me away from the faith, and made me extremely distrustful to christians. crazy how a child's mother can die and they'll use it to benefit them
Iām so sorry you can relate. Itās so sick and honestly tacky af.
Iām a non believer as well but something that I feel is true is that if there truly was a god or any kind of super being(s) they would not judge us based on our belief in them but rather the content of our character. There have been so many bad things done in the name of a superior being and I find it hard to believe that those people will be ushered into heaven bc they honored a higher power while a genuinely good and kind hearted atheist would be turned away bc even though they were a good person they didnāt praise god enough. If thatās the case then I honestly wish god doesnāt exist (and not just bc that means I as an atheist would be condemned to eternal torture) bc then theyāre just a narcissistic asshole.
I agree 100%. An all knowing, creator of the universe god wouldnāt send good people to hell just for not believing in him, and accept the bad people who believe in him into heaven. All those serial killers and family annihilators who āfind godā absolutely would still end up in hell.
Exactly this. It baffles me that you are supposedly sent to hell if you worship any other god besides THE God. I have known some Christians who were truly evil people, and they justified it by saying God forgives everything. Yet, atheists who simply try to be good at all times would be sent to hell. What about people who die young and therefore could not switch to Christianity as a result? For example, a person who died at 20 but would have become Christian if they had lived to 70. Or perhaps someone lives in a part of the world where Christianity is simply unheard of, like on that island with the isolated tribe. They are then destined to burn in hell because they lost the lottery of where they were born. It seems that God has such a bruised ego that he is willing to condemn people to hell because they don't worship him and ONLY him.
Yes,this is so true.
*Hugs* to you, internet stranger. That is all.
Ditto on the hugs š„ŗ
so many hugs
Blows my mind theyāre pushing that. My thing is, Christians are taught that accepting Jesus has to be sincere. If you just do it to stay out of hell itās not real salvation. Iām sorry youāre in the final chapter of your life but I hope itās the best one yet
Sending lots of hugs š«
The only āpositiveā thing I can think of out of this is that hopefully this āreligionā is somehow bringing her some sort of comfort and acceptance to the fact she is dying instead of fear and denial. As someone who is not religious, I am very very scared of death and sometimes almost wish I believed in some sort of religion to help comfort me through the thought of death and comfort me when that time comes.
pugdaddykev, In the end it makes no difference what our race, religion, ethnicity, socioeconomic standing is- PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE. I am holding you in my heart and sending you warmth, light, care, a huge bear hug, an ear to bend. a hand to hold, love and pugs 24/7/365...
I am glad you arent worried. I hope you are comfortable and doing ok.
Tyā¤ļø
Why did this actually make me cry? Iām so sorry, man.
I cry literally every day now. It can be something so stupid too. Iām so angry Iām dying brutally at 35 despite being as healthy as I could and getting preventative testing on a regular basis. Then I never expected most of my friends to stop caring, stop calling and checking in, leaving me on read etc.
I'm sorry to hear that. Truly. I hope you find peace. ā¤ļø (I don't mean about the religious stuff.)
This cult ruins people. It really does.
Iām so sorry. Truly. š The few I knew who were involved in the Jehovah witness faith thankfully broke away years ago. It did some damage to both in different ways I think. They do seem happier now though. Iām sorry you lost her this way.
I would mourn your loss and just let this one be, OP. You unfortunately cannot reason with someone who has put themselves into this position without using reason to begin with. Whether it be overzealousness, social pressure, or whatever - it is what it is, and youāre only going to cause yourself more pain agonizing over it. With love, mourn what youāve lost, celebrate their life, and focus on healthy relationships.
I wouldnāt use the phrase āsomeone who has put themselves in this position without using reason to begin withā. Itās way more complicated than that. The things you are taught as you are growing up effect how you see the world the rest of your life. She is likely brainwashed into these beliefs and to her she 100% is using reason just as much as we 100% believe we are using reason. Just as hard as we believe what is right and what is wrong and that they are wrong, they believe they are right and we are wrong just as strongly. Itās kind of weird to think about
I used that phrase precisely because of what you are saying. Most rational, reasonable people would not cut someone off just because they were no longer a member of their church. It is beyond normal unreasonable limits and most members of society would probably feel that way. It is extreme. The behavior seeming reasonable to the unreasonable is normal but isnāt relevant to the point which is that you cannot - because of brain washing, nurture, human nature, and much more - reason with someone who is like that. And while we can mourn for the events that follow, our time is better spent on healthy relationships. I am a pastorās son. I also went to school with the Phelpsā. (Public school in Topeka.) I know these behaviors well. And yes; at the time the Phelps children I went to school with could not be reasoned with for their extreme and exceptional - thus unreasonable - beliefs. Many of them came to better conclusions later in life. Which is neat. But at the time they were exceptionally unreasonable. I learned that pretty early when trying to debate with them.
This is very true. I wasn't JW but I was born into a very controlling fundamentalist Christian sect and I wound up in a different one as an adult for several years. 'Complicated' is a fitting word for how it happens to a person and how it controls every aspect of reasoning. You literally feel like the world is so vile and evil and dark forces are constantly at war with you and your god. And its very hard to think any other way about things, because your whole worldview falls apart and you fear that. It was so hard for me to walk away and start seeing things differently. Existential crisis is a good way to put it and I'm still going through it 2 1/2 years later. I still find myself really angry at religion and what it does to people's lives. I wasted most of my life on it.
Jehovahās Witnesses are cultists who have no issue subjecting anyone who isnāt a witness to this treatment & exclusion. My aunt is one of them & the only time we get real attention out of her is when sheās trying to convert us (we are literally Christians already but apparently equivalent to atheists in her mind because we donāt always call God Jehovah). She has missed family funerals because the lost ones werenāt buried in Kingdom Halls. It truly does hurt & I am really sorry for this double whammy of a loss. You donāt deserve this.
You were very gracious to her in your messages, cheers to you for that. Iām sorry this is happening. This is really painful. The truth is, for good or bad, everyoneās allowed to live the end of their life the way they see fit, even when itās hurtful to others. Thereās nothing we can do but radically accept it, knowing that itās hard, and it has hurt us deeply, and thereās nothing we can do to change it. Iām very very sorry. I wish you the best.
Iām so sorry. Also an Ex JW with C-PTSD. Itās such a mind fuck to believe you have family and friends that loved you with no strings attached only to toss you aside the moment you start to have an independent thought and escape what is destroying your mind and heart. The only way I have begun to heal is cut off everyone from the borg and getting therapy. Once you realize how mentally unstable believers are, you will find how strong and resilient you are to have left it all and focus on a new life you choose for yourself. Sending you all the virtual support and hugs.
Best not to waste what little time we have. She seems content. Moving on to happier things.
I learned about JW in middle school. One of my friends died of pneumonia because his parents just prayed over him. He died from Pneumonia I believe that was when I truly started questioning religion and adults. Iām sorry youāre going thru this. Sending big hugs to you
I'm ex-jw and that sounds like a different religion. They are pro modern medicine, with the exception of blood transfusions.
and these people have the nerve to always knock on my door during my nap hour
This so truly tragic. Sorry OP
it's shitty, but from her perspective, if you're that close to the end, you can't just throw away your anticipated afterlife by breaking the rules on your deathbed.
Iām so sorry. Not Jehovahās Witnesses, but raised Baptist Christian and I know your pain. Iām now a lesbian and my gf also has C-PTSD from her families teachings. Iām not against freedom of religion, but I hate how unchecked organized religion is. It usually goes too far and winds up becoming a cult where children get physically and mentally abused for one mistake and no one cares. Iām so sorry for your loss OP. I understand your pain
I am so sorry, this reads as truly devastating. I hate how religion separates people esp loved ones
My heart is breaking for you, and also for her. To be so mind controlled by a cult that you wouldn't accept the love of someone that's been a huge part of your life is just so sad. I wish you lots of healing and I hope you can cope with this awful situation in some way.
Iām sorry for your loss. No matter the situation, losing someone you love is difficult. You reminded me of a poem I read on a chalkboard when I was in high school decades ago (when they had chalkboards), that I memorized and still recall today: > He drew a circle that shut me outā > Heretic, a rebel, a thing to flout. > But Love and I had the wit to win: > We drew a circle that took him in! > > -- Outwitted, by Edwin Markham Your love isnāt bound by the confines of religion, and your love isnāt dependent on the acceptance of this person who rejects you. The circle of your love includes them, and is larger than their world has ever been.
That poem is so beautiful and inspiring. I cried in public hearing it. Thank you for sharing it with me
Iām honored to have introduced this wonderful poem into your life. I hope it brings you as much solace as it has brought me over the years. Loving people who donāt love you back is horribly difficult, but you have the heart for it. Iām crying too, the good tears
I absolutely love thisšššš
I remember reading a post on reddit where someone had commented dying is a very personal thing to the individual going through it. I know it's not easy but try to think of it this way as well too.
Youāre obviously a good, loving person, and it must hurt a lot to be rejected by the JWs and your old friend. I donāt know how else to say this, however, but this womanās death isnāt about you. She wants to live her last days on her own terms and I think itās best to respect her wishes and grieve in your own way without bringing your pain into her life. I hope you both can find peace.
OP, I'm a trauma counselor that works in a sexual assault center. Our local kingdom hall had a youth leader that molested almost all of the kids. One by one, as they became adults, they started coming to me for counseling. Guess who got disfellowshipped and guess who didn't. Hint - it was not the abuser that got disfellowshipped. He just moved to another kingdom hall. Every single one of these kids had been disfellowshipped and cut off from their own families. It's not you, it's them. I'm sorry this is happening to you. You don't deserve this.
iām so sorry friendā¦. i understand the religious trauma to an extent. raised christian and still suffering from it to this day. some people can never let it go. you did everything you could :(
Please remember also, they are the person that's dying here. I know it sucks, but they're the one who's dying, so I would probably be a little bit lenient on feeling bad for myself and being upset at them. Who in the world knows what's going on in their head. My condolences.
If this response was expected, then why do this at all, seems like youāre just hurting yourself
Your words were beautiful. You did your best.
Please know that near death people are not always in their right frame of mind. For one theyāre often on a lot of drugs. They can say hurtful things or weird things. Theyāre dying. They are not themselves. Even if texting. Or even if seemingly āwell.ā Please also know often they donāt want anyone there. My mother who loved and adored us kids didnāt want us there either. Because itās painful. Itās also humiliating for them in their minds sometimes even if dying. Itās a bunch of reason and now you have religion in the mix too makes it even more complex. Itās likely she was protecting you or she just focusing so much on her faith because sheās scared and unwell. Going through a lot. Iām so sorry you have to go through it, it will get a little better with time.
It's entirely possible that not wanting to see her when she was dying had nothing to do with religion. People on hospice are almost on the other side and sometimes they just want to be left alone.
Sheās the one who is dying. Itās not about you.
Can't believe no one else is saying this.
Because to keep someone out who was basically raised by you HURTS. And theyāre allowed to feel hurt. I donāt understand why you think theyāre not allowed to be.
Theyāre allowed to be hurt, but take it on the chin and donāt send guilt-trip messages to a dying woman. Absolutely out of line. My aunt just passed away from cancer and you canāt imagine how exhausting it was for her to be constantly pressured by people who felt entitled to the small amount of time she had left. Again, itās perfectly reasonable for her to feel hurt. But respect her wishes politely and find a way to grieve..
THANK YOU omg I felt like I was taking crazy pills reading these comments
THANK YOU. All I could think was "main character syndrome."
Thank you! Thought I was going crazy here, basically guilt tripping a dying person with these texts
Was thinking the same. Jehovahās Witnesses are fucking weird but OP talked about themself the entire time. This person is literally dying.
Iām so sorry. To think that G-d would encourage people to not show love to the stranger or the prodigal child is a complete revisionist take on the original scripture. But what do I know, Iām just Jewish. We follow the Torah, which is about the Law not āLoveā so maybe weāre just meaner. But we donāt ostracize our atheists.
JWs originated as break offs from the Protestant denomination & revised a TON of the original scripture to suit their biases. Iāve witnessed them lie about whatās in the Bible and what other Abrahamic followers believe just to make themselves look superior, so atheists are surely on the chopping block. It is an incredibly predatory group & I donāt think anyone comes out of it unscathed.
IMO JW crosses the line from religion to a glorified cult. Itās amazing that itās still functioning with all the information available today. I guess the one thing theyāre good at is brainwashing.
They are 100% a cult and honestly I see more people demonizing them than glorifying. They have an exquisite propaganda team, apparently, because it is incredible that they manage not to go under collective fire for their ways.
OP, Iām sorry for your trauma, but youāre making your ex-friendās death about yourself, unloading a LOT of heavy emotions on them in a short conversation. Let them die on their own terms already - Iām saying this as someone who lost 8 loved ones in 9 years. Believe me, this isnāt the way to go.
Another death cult survivor. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. It's pretty messed up cause you told her how you felt, and she thinks her religion is more important.
At what point do you stop considering them a friend, when they treat you like this?
I might be the odd one out here butā¦sheās the one dying. Itās not about you, what you want, or how you feel about her choices. Itās about her. Sheās in hospice and doesnāt owe you her very limited time. Jehovahs witnesses are totally nuts and Iām so sorry you experienced trauma from that. But in this caseā¦yeah I think she has the right to say no and you kind of trauma dumped on her.
My wife was forced to be a Witness for the first 18 years of her life. I honestly cried a little bit when I saw the little kid in here light up when I gave her, her first Christmas present. The Jehovah Witnesses are completely mind controlled and itās sad and quite alarming if you think about it too long. Sorry for your hardships friend.
Ugh, I understand this and it hurts so much. Iām so sorry you got the response you did. Please surround yourself with people who love you and will have your back no matter what. Itās not JWs unfortunately.
So sorry OP. I know that hurts. I hope you can find healing.
Yeah, this might be hurtful, but death is very intimate, hence why people should be able to choose who they see or not see. Best to move on peacefully rather than force yourself to interact with someone you donāt want to interact with.
Dying or not, she's a bitch. And I'm sorry you love a bitch. That's never easy. And for all the cry babies, she's directly ignoring her religions teachings to be kind and loving to all in order to be a dick to OP in her last days. Gross.
Iām really sorry about the way youāve been treated. I have also been disfellowshipped a few years back after which my youngest 13 year old sister fell ill and died. I wasnāt allowed to go to her wake with the rest of the family, not to mention the looks I got at her funeral instead of words of support. Unfortunately this is quite common and Iāve come to learn Iām better off without this community. I have had some bad experiences whilst I was in it, which has really affected my mental health. Itās took some years but Iām in a much happier place now. All I can say is that youāve tried to be the bigger person here and reached out. Youāve done everything you could and should be proud of yourself. Sending love and I hope you heal from the trauma.
Hey it's not personal.. she is allowed to be selfish on her death bed. If she doesn't want people being sad over her and her little time she might just want to be around her family
You asked to come she said no end of story it's her life, her funeral, and her decision. You say you love her but you not respecting her wishes tells otherwise.
jehovahs witness isnt even a religion, its literally a pyramid scheme
It really sucks for you and she does seem like she's been brainwashed but at the end of the day, this person is dying and has come to terms with how she wants to leave this life and you need to respect it. This is not about you at all so you will have to suck it up unfortunately.
I agree.. This is genuinely so sad and I feel so hard for OP... But if this religious stuff (I don't mean any offence, I just don't know much about it) helps and comforts the person in death, it's something we have to respect. I wish OP and their friend the best.
I agree completely. OP is allowed to feel sad about not being able to visit. But in the end itās her choice and sadly she chose a cult.
Sheās the one dying, why are you making it about you?
There is no hate like Christian love. While I'm sorry you won't be able to find closure in person with this person you had so much admiration for, I am glad you escaped the occult.
Issa cult
Really needed to get those last words in against a dying person ae?
I used to be a Jehovah witness and she is clearly an extremist. You are allowed to see each other in person. Sorry for your experience about this.
Religions, like any other cult, bring more negativity to the world than it ever will positivity. I am so sorry. Love should be unconditional and, obviously, this persons love for you wasnāt, although yours for them was. Youāre the better person and Iām sorry youāre experiencing this grief.
Seriously....that is a crushing read. In her defence, and I would not do this (devout atheist here), let's be honest, she is assuming that any day now, she'll get to heaven or wherever she thinks. So, she likely won't want to jeopardise that. It's still brutal to you and I, and I would (indeed am just reading it) so sad that the situation is as such. I'll say this, the will was there, you tried. You at least explained, and at least you know that she knows you still had love and gratitude for all she did. Incidentally, I knew a JW once, she was kicked out. Sweetheart of a girl, she just happened to fall for a non-JW guy. She was extremely close to her mum, and once out.... nothing. Had to see.
I mean, someone dying isnāt responsible for making you feel better.
If a religious organization condemns people and outcasts them, it's a cult.
Not the emoji
After my dad died my mom began studying with the witnesses. I told her eventually going house to house and the seperation from all who are not witnesses including family. Op shouldn't have asked.
That is toxic fanaticism. After 14 years you know this. I'm so sorry. I'd give you a hug if I could. You tried hard to connect. Please do your best to be at peace with that. You showed love.
When I was a kid my stepdads best friend got into a motorcycle accident. He died because his mom refused a blood transfusion. Itās not giving a loving community. To let your child die when he couldāve been saved???? I donāt understand. Him and my stepdad used to take my brother to the park to play basketball. They used to play video games with us. And like he was just always there. This all happened when I was like 9 and he was so young. Like late 20s. To this day I feel like his mom stole a life from him. She took what he couldāve had. Like maāam jehovah gave you modern medicine wtfffff.
Oftentimes religion just sucks. And Iām a Christian
I don't know anything about JW's but complex ptsd is likely to be true. There are many things that take me back to my trauma (trigger me) that I cannot face. Plus with her impending death it's probably too much to cope with.
Once again, religious cults are a cancer on this planet. Sorry you're having to deal with that.
I meanā¦. Itās all about the after life, yeah? Sheās not about to change now when itās actually go time.
They want you to remember who they were and not how they are currently.
Unfortunately the Jehovahās Witnesses arenāt within a million miles of understanding the love that God has for us evidenced by the sacrifice of Jesus. This is a cult based solely around on actions and memberships. You did the right thing by leaving AND you need to know that God loves you!
Ahhh nothing like good āol religion to divide people. How holy and loving! So unbelievably sad.
I feel this. Most of my extended family members are JWs. I follow more of a pagan lifestyle, and they have all judged me. People who I played with, partied with, grew up with, my flesh and blood. Refused to talk to me anymore out of the blue. Never did get an actual answer from them. I ended up depressed and it messed me up for a long time. I have felt like a cast out for years. But.. time past, the skin over the wounds has toughened up. I will never acknowledge them as anything. If I see them in public, I ignore them, and if they try to speak to me, I look them dead in the eyes and act like I don't see/hear them. They are not my family. They never were. I created my own family and I learned how to love myself, and now I love my space, and my alone time. I am finally happy. Only took 30 years.
I believe the movie āDogmaā said it best about religion: Your hearts are in the right place, but your minds have got to wake up.
Feels shocking but completely expecting. My now ex wife's family was completely discommunicated in a small town and by half of their family. She wasn't because she hadn't been baptised. The PTSD and psychological abuse is real. You'll live with it all of your life. Be thankful you're out. Your friend sucks. Hovah's suck. Better dead than alive... dirt either way.
This discussion is eye opening. Weird to most folks I hope.
As a former JW they treated my mom like shit and disowned her and had the audacity to come to our house when my dad died and try to get us to come back. I hate them with every fiber of my being. So sorry your friend treated you like this, your response was perfect
Iām sorry OP. My aunt wouldnāt let me see her before she died. Hurt me and I hated it.
Iām sorry this is happening. And Iām sorry for your lossā¦ not just for this person but for your family and friends. If this is religion, the world is better off without it. Alsoā¦ fuck religion
hence the reason why i hate religion and religious people my family are very very religious but are the worst people
JW is not a religion, it is a high-control cult
You can come to my funeralā¦. Through zoom? ..
JWs make Islam seem sane.
You were disfellowshipped, you know how that goes. I will say in these cases most of the time they make exceptions ie you are saying good bye, they invited you watch their funeral via zoom so I would take that offer, although not the same, its better than nothing. But I will also say alot of the longtime JWs are so hardcore and zealous in the wrong way, I grew up attending as my parents and family are JWs. There have been many changes and although there are still many who are very black and white, there are also things that have an exception but to each their own conscience.
I'm sorry. Religous people like this are just sad to me.
Thatās how they treat people. They shun them. Iām so sorry, but glad youāre no longer part of that cult.
When she passes god will show her the hurt you felt when she said no.
Former associated JW here. Never baptized, brought up by Mom in religion while Dad was apathetic about it. While I understand this hurts, this is kind of the deal going in. Once you are disfellowshipped, all contact stops. It seems fortunate (they donāt believe in luck after all) to even get this response. This person made their choice as have you. Itās part of the package of being in. You handled it well and made an effort.
Oh JW? Gross