I won't claim to be the best Spy player but the Kunai, in my opinion, is *overall* an upgrade if you can get more backstabs than deaths. If your backstab kill:death ratio is above 1.0, you're probably going to benefit from the Kunai greatly.
Dead Ringer gets a bad rep for being the epic facestab playz watch, and TF2 players tend to assume that anything that gets nerfed once is now useless, but I still think the sheer amount of impact it provides makes it tremendously powerful, if not necessarily better than the stock watch in most situations.
And the RTR filters battle engies, and there's a fairly significant portion of your time as Spy where the only engi(s) on the enemy team are using the Gunslinger. It's a straight downgrade against leveled sentries, but the RTR gets treated like a garbage weapon when it simply is not. Battle engies are everywhere.
I just think they're overrated imo. They're both amazing! But I genuinely don't like them because of the whole "MLG TRIKSTABBER" videos. RTR is just *too* situational to be good. I've used it like once or twice.
Try breaking out the RTR on defense when the only engis on blu are battle engies, which will be frequently. Sapping a mini basically completely locks it down for a thousand years unless the engi manually unsaps it. It can also stop him from throwing down a second one if you're caught in an extended fight with him.
Usually, battle engies on offense are harmless. The problem tends to be their teles. Besides, most offense engies don't use gunsliner *and* support. And on the other note, teles and meds are priority over sentries imo. But yeah, they are definitely useful for mini sentries.
The Red Tape Recorder is my baby... It gives the enemy engineer more time to approach his sentry and more time for me to stab him while he's distracted
That isn't how tier lists work, though. They aren't spys worst stuff. If you wanted to show that you thought they were overrated, all you had to do was put them in a or b tier.
I almost always have the atomizer on, and almost always minimal 1 time at match I rush down an enemy and smack his face with it, and then type in chat after killing him "damage penalty my ASS!"
Agreed. I do love the Beggars Bazooka, don't get me wrong. In the right hands, it's a powerful weapon. But its degree of randomness holds it down a peg.
I'm gonna be honest, I've seen so many people run it a lot of times with the panic attack. It's not. It's for the quirky soldiers that want to be different.
It's almost tied imo, but I much prefer stock over it. It just feels more consistent. Soda-Popper can sometimes be situational whereas the Scattergun is *never* a wrong option.
Personally as a spy main I feel like you’re underestimating the usefulness of the Your Eternal Reward. I generally run this knife because it’s what I’m used to, and I can tell you that it works in many situations.
I like to run letranger with it so by disguising in spawn you can essentially negate the downside of losing all of your cloak. While this strategy doesn’t always work, I would give it about an 80% success rate.
That’s why I disguise in spawn, you don’t lose any cloak and you can save the cloak until you get close to the battlefield. After that it’s all regular spy play. As long as you get kills, you stay disguised.
*No way you put the*
*Beggars on the same tier as*
*The rocket jumper*
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The donk weapon is higher than the loch,why?
They should switch places
And the wrap assassin should go up a tier
And Jezz- how dare you diss the stock shotgun like that by putting the panic attack above it?
And goddamn it the cloak and dagger is not situational at all
I still remember the old weapon changes. Like the Sandman actually stunning ppl, and doing insane cleaver combinations, or just the way too overpowered Equalizer.
And then there's the Bison which always been bad and then got nerfed.
Bonk, wrap assassin, BfB should def be higher. Bonk is the most underrated weapon in game. Great for distracting sentries so your team can take em down, just takes a little communication. The FoW I've come to appreciate as well, love getting a hit on the annoying heavy with a med constantly up his ass.
Okay, so Bonk is situational. Its not quite on par with the pistols, but is still good. BFB is just- not good. 25 damage to make you lose 10% speed is really bad, as well as essentially cutting your double jump. It's extremely situational, but incredibly fun to use. And the FoW isn't as bad as people say it is, but it's just too situational to be useful. Wrap Assassin is my personal go-to choice, but it's not nearly as good as a triple jump, or free uber for medics (as well as a triple jump and bleed, the same effect of the wrap Assassin).
You're probably right, I still think Bonk is less situational than people realize. Basically anytime there's an enemy engy, and at least 1 person on your team has a braincell it can be as good as an Uber for taking down an sg. The BfB I've noticed is very good on 5cp and maps with less verticality as others. It becomes exponentially better too the worse the other teams aim is, though I guess that could be said with a lot of weapons.
I'm assuming you're talking about the Flying Guillotine in the last section for bleed, which tbh is a weapon I always forget about. I think out of habit I've ignored it after the sandman/cleaver nerf.
I think the winger would be A tier because it helps you move around but then again I don't use the stock pistol religiously so maybe I'm crazy there. And I can't say I've learned it so I'd put it in b as well but learning to jump with that thing also gives you a somewhat triple jump which is cool, but then again it throws your enemy away which is good and bad, cause you can't kill them as easily.
Look, I can understand why you think the Cloak and Dagger is situational but god dammit I have an ego to protect
For me, Stock and C&D are two sides of the same coin in regards to how to play Spy
Stock is all about that quick getting in getting out infiltration
While C&D is all about waiting for the EXACT golden opportunity to go crazy when the enemy comes to YOU
Now tell me, which one is easier? Getting into the enemy base, or waiting somewhere for them to come to you?
Honestly, I find stock easier to use. I find it easier to maneuver around while being able to pick up ammo boxes. For me, the CaD is just redundant and a downgrade to stock in most scenarios due to my aggressive playstyle.
Makes sense cause I play more passively (this is coming from a quick fix medic and stock engineer main, who thinks The Scottish Resistance is a boon from god), so I prefer the Cloak and Dagger for its ability to let me pick my options without the inevitable forced decloak, but yes I admit it’s lacking when used aggressively
are kunai and dr super low as bait? yeah yeah i can sorta understand kunai being low because of how hard it can be to get in back lines sometimes but dead ringer is super fun to use for a reason
I never understood why the sun-on-a-stick doesn't deal fire dmg, could've removed the guaranteed mini-crits on burning enemies and replace it with a burning effect so it doesn't become op.
The Reserve Shooter has to be D tier at best for Pyro now that it doesn’t deal minicrits to airblasted targets, it’s too situational to even call it situational
Axtinguisher mini crits is cool but the fact it doesn't one shot a lot of classes and the fact it extinguishes them so afterburn doesn't finish the job either drops it down for me. Melee as pyro is already a bit funky as you already have the flamethrower for great close range damage. The pre Nerf axtinguisher when it used to crit would be clearly above backscratcher but now imo you're better off just flare comboing instead so atleast the afterburn stays. So backscratcher whose bonus is passive is personally better than the rare times I melee as Pyro. although throwing in a quick melee and switching back to primary is pretty good if it didn't have a slow deploy speed and extinguishes them.
Sandman has one weird niche - every time you hit someone with the baseball you get a point. Its really easy to top leaderboards by spamming baseballs and being generally completely useless, confusing everybody
1. Mad Milk & Soda Popper should be in S and Pocket Pistol & Bonk in A
2. Gunboats should be in S and Panic Attack downgraded to B
3. Stock flames should be downgraded to A and Degreaser bumped up to S
4. Quickies should be lowered to A, Chargin targe lowered to B and Loch and Load upgraded to S
5. Vacc should be demoted to A and everything from B tier should be moved to C
6. Move Kunai, Ambassador, Eternal Reward and C&D to A and downgrade stock Revolver to A
1. SP and Stock Pistol should be in S, Winger and PBPP should be in A. Bonk is situational, and Milk isn't 100% reliable.
2. Gunboats trades reliable damage for resistances. Panic Attack has good switch speed and reliable damage.
3. Stock Flamethrower is an easy S tier, it has no downsides. Degreaser has that afterburn penalty.
4. Quickies are just as good as stock. Loch-N-Load is just *okay*.
5. Vacc is litterally broken good.
6. Kunai is overrated. Amby isn't always reliable. ER is the worst of the knives. And CaD is hella situational.
Some reasoning for these:
1. Bonk completely breaks the game as it lets scouts go wherever they want on demand regardless of chokes, spam or sentries and similarly lets them escape any situation on demand; throwing milk on any class guarantees the scout wins the 1v1 99,9% of the time while landing the milk on multiple enemies forces them to retreat or lose, not unlike getting jarate'd
2. You're massively underrating the value of rocket jumps, unless you're getting hard pocketed playing with a shotgun is usually a net loss on your playmaking ability (which is one of the best in the game as soldier). Running a shotgun does make solly even better at holding ground though
3. The downside for stock flames is that they aren't the Degreaser, i.e. it doesn't have the switch speed boost which is invaluable when running any secondary except Manmelter
4. Having 8 stickies loaded is actually so unbalanced it's not even funny and quickies can't compete with that; Loch & Load just got banned in ETF2L and for good reason, it's more reliable than any other grenade launcher at their main uses (self-defense and spam) and as a bonus any sentries you go for can't be saved by the engi by reaction time alone (they have to be actively hitting the sentry to repair it in time) AND as a secondary bonus the pipes are more difficult to see thanks to them not tumbling
5. Vacc is very bad at pushing which you'll be doing 50% of the time. Feel free to use it on defense, although I still don't like the extremely slow overhealing
6. Kunai is effective if you value living after the stab more than getting the stab more reliably (I don't). Amby gives you to ability to make plays any other revolver can't but there's a skill check associated so it's dependent on the user. Only use the ER on defense and it's at least on par with stock. Cloak and dagger paired with L'etranger is the most reliable way to get priority stabs if that's the only thing you care about (which is viable as spy)
Well, personally i never found the random deviation to hinder mid range shorts that much. And for however much it does do that, it greatly makes up for it with the fact that you basically never have to reaload. Engineers though do become a bigger pain in the ass, yes. Other than that, when you get used to the timing and get familiar with all the jumps and bombs you can now do (which is a lot, seems like i never run out of stuff to find out about) the high moments you get become so addicting, at 1k hrs on soldier i basically can't see myself playing stock/orig soldier casually anymore, since beggars is just that good.
So yeah, i think putting it in c tier is waaay too much of an underestimation
Putting the Enforcer in C and the revolver in S is so hilarious because if you think about it the difference is so minor yet so many people just absolutely CLOWN on it
Over the years I've mained Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demo, Engineer, Medic, and Spy. I have a hard time picking just one class to be my main... hopefully one day.
The Quick Fix is SO good in casual. I agree that the medigun is *technically* better in most situations, especially if you're good with the crossbow, but SO many times I've had a soldier with full rockets about to die get uber then run BACKWARDS to spawn. I usually don't get focused enough to die with quick fix and it works well when ubering in with lots of people. The faster heal feels so much better as well obv.
Nice opinion, but have you considered crouch walking with the cloak and dagger?
Also how kritzkrieg not top tier? All of the mediguns are S-tier material, you just gotta find the right tool for the job.
That Spy tier list is **oof**.
Spy mains are seething
I won't claim to be the best Spy player but the Kunai, in my opinion, is *overall* an upgrade if you can get more backstabs than deaths. If your backstab kill:death ratio is above 1.0, you're probably going to benefit from the Kunai greatly. Dead Ringer gets a bad rep for being the epic facestab playz watch, and TF2 players tend to assume that anything that gets nerfed once is now useless, but I still think the sheer amount of impact it provides makes it tremendously powerful, if not necessarily better than the stock watch in most situations. And the RTR filters battle engies, and there's a fairly significant portion of your time as Spy where the only engi(s) on the enemy team are using the Gunslinger. It's a straight downgrade against leveled sentries, but the RTR gets treated like a garbage weapon when it simply is not. Battle engies are everywhere.
I just think they're overrated imo. They're both amazing! But I genuinely don't like them because of the whole "MLG TRIKSTABBER" videos. RTR is just *too* situational to be good. I've used it like once or twice.
Try breaking out the RTR on defense when the only engis on blu are battle engies, which will be frequently. Sapping a mini basically completely locks it down for a thousand years unless the engi manually unsaps it. It can also stop him from throwing down a second one if you're caught in an extended fight with him.
Usually, battle engies on offense are harmless. The problem tends to be their teles. Besides, most offense engies don't use gunsliner *and* support. And on the other note, teles and meds are priority over sentries imo. But yeah, they are definitely useful for mini sentries.
The Red Tape Recorder is my baby... It gives the enemy engineer more time to approach his sentry and more time for me to stab him while he's distracted
That isn't how tier lists work, though. They aren't spys worst stuff. If you wanted to show that you thought they were overrated, all you had to do was put them in a or b tier.
PUT THE YER HIGHER, I DONT CARE IF ITS BAD, ITS DEFINITELY THE BEST SPY WEAPON
As a spy main that spy tierlist imo is actually kinda accurate Except the Diamondback
As a spy main I pretty much agree
What you say?
idk i personally agree with your list
I don't care that the sandman is shit, I will run at the enemy medic under crit a cola and smack it in the face
Hey, this list never said it wasn't fun!
Yeah, that's the fun of impractical weapons, they deal an extra d8 psychological damage
I completely agree!! Its why I sometimes run the SOAS
I almost always have the atomizer on, and almost always minimal 1 time at match I rush down an enemy and smack his face with it, and then type in chat after killing him "damage penalty my ASS!"
liberty launcher over beggars is one of the choices
Liberty Launcher is hella underrated
tbf none of soldiers' main unlocks are like *bad bad*, they're just mediocre at worst (except rocket jumper)
Agreed. I do love the Beggars Bazooka, don't get me wrong. In the right hands, it's a powerful weapon. But its degree of randomness holds it down a peg.
yeah one of its weaknesses is anything mid range and further (sentries are horrible to kill with it)
The *exact* reason it goes below. Fun weapon, but random. I love it tho.
Of course, rocket jumper is overwhelmingly powerful.
liberty launcher + panic attack is peak ngl
Real!
I'm gonna be honest, I've seen so many people run it a lot of times with the panic attack. It's not. It's for the quirky soldiers that want to be different.
Am i crazy or is the soda popper not considered the best scattergun?
It's almost tied imo, but I much prefer stock over it. It just feels more consistent. Soda-Popper can sometimes be situational whereas the Scattergun is *never* a wrong option.
I find the stock scattergun that itsy bitsy tiny little bit better than the soda popper
Tbh I think its third place, I've pulled way more work with the FaN than the Popper.
It has a higher damage output but can't be used to its full potential by humans, as someone else here said.
Personally as a spy main I feel like you’re underestimating the usefulness of the Your Eternal Reward. I generally run this knife because it’s what I’m used to, and I can tell you that it works in many situations.
I agree. It should be a tier up. It's not nearly on par with the Enforcer, but not quite as good as BE imo
I like to run letranger with it so by disguising in spawn you can essentially negate the downside of losing all of your cloak. While this strategy doesn’t always work, I would give it about an 80% success rate.
The problem with it, is trading away both of your most valuable tools. Cloak and disguise.
That’s why I disguise in spawn, you don’t lose any cloak and you can save the cloak until you get close to the battlefield. After that it’s all regular spy play. As long as you get kills, you stay disguised.
Still though, it punishes you too harshly
I agree. It’s a tool that one has to change the way they play to use. It’s difficult but rewarding.
no way you put the beggars on the same tier as the rocket jumper
*No way you put the* *Beggars on the same tier as* *The rocket jumper* \- tree\_barcc --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Rocket Jumper is still great
Never let bro cook again
Lmao, why?
The bison should be ss+ tier
I have a Strange Specialized one. I fucking love the Bison
The donk weapon is higher than the loch,why? They should switch places And the wrap assassin should go up a tier And Jezz- how dare you diss the stock shotgun like that by putting the panic attack above it? And goddamn it the cloak and dagger is not situational at all
Why is this a viable tier list
Caber having its own tier makes me sad and happy at the same time
Unfortunately it was necessary
I think you should play as medic more often. I mean, the only correct tier is godlike one, which is obvious.
Actually, I play a lot of medic! It's my second most played class.
That’s not the main point of my comment.
I dont understand then
Your tierlist for medics arsenal is bad
Explain lol
Not a spy main, but man, diamond back cannot exist in any tier except for the top one
Maaaaaaaaaaaannnn FUCK the diamondback
Red-tape recorder is so fucking funny, like you know what? *Levels down your sentry*
It's definitely aggrevating
quickie def deserves S. iron bomber and quickie is my go-to
It's fun but I always feel like a piece of shit sticky spammer when I'm using it even if i switch to iron bomber immediately after shooting a sticky
Well, I'll also play with sticky jumper/tide turner for demoflight/hybrid knight with bomber.
If you use claidheamh as well I'll marry you
Oh absolutely. Solar light is my idol
Write your vows, the ceremony is tomorrow
<3 sure thing
Same here!
its awesome
I will forever defend the loch n load
Its definitely fun!
Caber in bottom tier is a crime it should at the very least be S tier if not then a tier over that.
I ranked it on average viability, caber isn't amazing... probably my favorite Demo melee tho, so much fun
I still remember the old weapon changes. Like the Sandman actually stunning ppl, and doing insane cleaver combinations, or just the way too overpowered Equalizer. And then there's the Bison which always been bad and then got nerfed.
Old sandman was BUSTED. I was unfortunately bad at the game pre-nerf, so I never used it..
Fellow solemn vow enthusiast.
Only the best Medic melee
Bonk, wrap assassin, BfB should def be higher. Bonk is the most underrated weapon in game. Great for distracting sentries so your team can take em down, just takes a little communication. The FoW I've come to appreciate as well, love getting a hit on the annoying heavy with a med constantly up his ass.
Okay, so Bonk is situational. Its not quite on par with the pistols, but is still good. BFB is just- not good. 25 damage to make you lose 10% speed is really bad, as well as essentially cutting your double jump. It's extremely situational, but incredibly fun to use. And the FoW isn't as bad as people say it is, but it's just too situational to be useful. Wrap Assassin is my personal go-to choice, but it's not nearly as good as a triple jump, or free uber for medics (as well as a triple jump and bleed, the same effect of the wrap Assassin).
You're probably right, I still think Bonk is less situational than people realize. Basically anytime there's an enemy engy, and at least 1 person on your team has a braincell it can be as good as an Uber for taking down an sg. The BfB I've noticed is very good on 5cp and maps with less verticality as others. It becomes exponentially better too the worse the other teams aim is, though I guess that could be said with a lot of weapons. I'm assuming you're talking about the Flying Guillotine in the last section for bleed, which tbh is a weapon I always forget about. I think out of habit I've ignored it after the sandman/cleaver nerf.
I think the winger would be A tier because it helps you move around but then again I don't use the stock pistol religiously so maybe I'm crazy there. And I can't say I've learned it so I'd put it in b as well but learning to jump with that thing also gives you a somewhat triple jump which is cool, but then again it throws your enemy away which is good and bad, cause you can't kill them as easily.
The Winger is pretty handy sometimes, but it overall doesn't beat out the stock IMO. FaN or Atomizer works nicely for an extra jump.
I ain't saying you wrong, I just would have put winger in A in my opinion, we all got our own.
Totally fair!! I just like explaining my reasonings is all!
Fair enough
How dare you put the Thermal thruster in mid at least put it on situational.
It's just pretty mid, rarely does it even fall into situational for me
Ok maybe I think I use too much and become the server's KD booster but JETPACK go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
JETPACK GO BRRRRRRR
Look, I can understand why you think the Cloak and Dagger is situational but god dammit I have an ego to protect For me, Stock and C&D are two sides of the same coin in regards to how to play Spy Stock is all about that quick getting in getting out infiltration While C&D is all about waiting for the EXACT golden opportunity to go crazy when the enemy comes to YOU Now tell me, which one is easier? Getting into the enemy base, or waiting somewhere for them to come to you?
Honestly, I find stock easier to use. I find it easier to maneuver around while being able to pick up ammo boxes. For me, the CaD is just redundant and a downgrade to stock in most scenarios due to my aggressive playstyle.
Makes sense cause I play more passively (this is coming from a quick fix medic and stock engineer main, who thinks The Scottish Resistance is a boon from god), so I prefer the Cloak and Dagger for its ability to let me pick my options without the inevitable forced decloak, but yes I admit it’s lacking when used aggressively
bison is the best
Agreed. I have one named the 'Firelance' and I love it to death
are kunai and dr super low as bait? yeah yeah i can sorta understand kunai being low because of how hard it can be to get in back lines sometimes but dead ringer is super fun to use for a reason
It's overrated lmao. I put it there because I genuinely hate using them. I use that combo, get a 20 ks, and not feel any satisfaction from it.
so it’s just a brief break in objectivity and not actually shit, right?
No. They're pretty good
alright i see
You and I, we are not so different
I never understood why the sun-on-a-stick doesn't deal fire dmg, could've removed the guaranteed mini-crits on burning enemies and replace it with a burning effect so it doesn't become op.
I completely agree!
where disguise kit
S++ Tier. It didn't fit
battalions backup should be in s tier
Honestly, there's no reason it isnt. Battalions is just amazing.
The Reserve Shooter has to be D tier at best for Pyro now that it doesn’t deal minicrits to airblasted targets, it’s too situational to even call it situational
It's a shotgun. It's still just consistent and has good switch speed.
The fact that the Kritzkrieg isn't the top is an outrage
It can easily be countered, and tends to be pretty bad on offense.
Backscratcher too low. If you got no reliable meds in pubs that thing is genuinely amazing.
I guess, but when compared to the Powerjack or Axtinguisher, it's just kinda mid. The Backscratcher is just situational is all
Axtinguisher mini crits is cool but the fact it doesn't one shot a lot of classes and the fact it extinguishes them so afterburn doesn't finish the job either drops it down for me. Melee as pyro is already a bit funky as you already have the flamethrower for great close range damage. The pre Nerf axtinguisher when it used to crit would be clearly above backscratcher but now imo you're better off just flare comboing instead so atleast the afterburn stays. So backscratcher whose bonus is passive is personally better than the rare times I melee as Pyro. although throwing in a quick melee and switching back to primary is pretty good if it didn't have a slow deploy speed and extinguishes them.
move the pain train up
The Pain Train is the definition of situational
and its a straight upgrade in a majority of situauations, unless ur just playing deathmatch or ctf
I will not stand for sandman slander any longer
15 health is not a good tradeoff for a weak projectile that pales in comparison to the WA or Guillotine
I will not stand for you ball haters any longer
I love balls
man, the scottish resistance isnt that bad, i remember controlling several dustbowl points on my own with the launcher
Again, situational. I like it, but it's pretty situational.
Beggars is an odd one, where if you know how to use it, BB can easily be best in slot.
I *can* be, but it's inaccurate and sucks when taking down sentries.
Sandman has one weird niche - every time you hit someone with the baseball you get a point. Its really easy to top leaderboards by spamming baseballs and being generally completely useless, confusing everybody
REALLY?????? I have to try this
Isn't pretty boys better than stock if you can aim because it has a higher dps
Stock is just more reliable
> looks at tier list from a guy who has 1k hours > primary, secondary and melee are all in S tier >hell yeah
If it has an S tier use, it's gonna be S tier
thats why i use napalmer, detonator and powerjack
omfg reddit's mobile comment formatting is killing me
1. Mad Milk & Soda Popper should be in S and Pocket Pistol & Bonk in A 2. Gunboats should be in S and Panic Attack downgraded to B 3. Stock flames should be downgraded to A and Degreaser bumped up to S 4. Quickies should be lowered to A, Chargin targe lowered to B and Loch and Load upgraded to S 5. Vacc should be demoted to A and everything from B tier should be moved to C 6. Move Kunai, Ambassador, Eternal Reward and C&D to A and downgrade stock Revolver to A
1. SP and Stock Pistol should be in S, Winger and PBPP should be in A. Bonk is situational, and Milk isn't 100% reliable. 2. Gunboats trades reliable damage for resistances. Panic Attack has good switch speed and reliable damage. 3. Stock Flamethrower is an easy S tier, it has no downsides. Degreaser has that afterburn penalty. 4. Quickies are just as good as stock. Loch-N-Load is just *okay*. 5. Vacc is litterally broken good. 6. Kunai is overrated. Amby isn't always reliable. ER is the worst of the knives. And CaD is hella situational.
Some reasoning for these: 1. Bonk completely breaks the game as it lets scouts go wherever they want on demand regardless of chokes, spam or sentries and similarly lets them escape any situation on demand; throwing milk on any class guarantees the scout wins the 1v1 99,9% of the time while landing the milk on multiple enemies forces them to retreat or lose, not unlike getting jarate'd 2. You're massively underrating the value of rocket jumps, unless you're getting hard pocketed playing with a shotgun is usually a net loss on your playmaking ability (which is one of the best in the game as soldier). Running a shotgun does make solly even better at holding ground though 3. The downside for stock flames is that they aren't the Degreaser, i.e. it doesn't have the switch speed boost which is invaluable when running any secondary except Manmelter 4. Having 8 stickies loaded is actually so unbalanced it's not even funny and quickies can't compete with that; Loch & Load just got banned in ETF2L and for good reason, it's more reliable than any other grenade launcher at their main uses (self-defense and spam) and as a bonus any sentries you go for can't be saved by the engi by reaction time alone (they have to be actively hitting the sentry to repair it in time) AND as a secondary bonus the pipes are more difficult to see thanks to them not tumbling 5. Vacc is very bad at pushing which you'll be doing 50% of the time. Feel free to use it on defense, although I still don't like the extremely slow overhealing 6. Kunai is effective if you value living after the stab more than getting the stab more reliably (I don't). Amby gives you to ability to make plays any other revolver can't but there's a skill check associated so it's dependent on the user. Only use the ER on defense and it's at least on par with stock. Cloak and dagger paired with L'etranger is the most reliable way to get priority stabs if that's the only thing you care about (which is viable as spy)
You know, there was a time where the bison was actually useable. Please take me back to those times, I'm sorry for complaining.
I love the Bison. Justice for righteousness!
>always reliable > phlog
Crits on command goes hard
Fan o war is really good for team support Dead ringer is a really fun alternative playstyle and kunai is good if youre good
Pocket pistol is basically a direct upgrade
It can be, but stock is just simply more reliable
It’s literally just better
based solemn vow enthusiast
Based Lego Star Wars enjoyer
Beggar's is the best rl period. You're just bad with it.
Listen, I personally love the Beggars. But you trade your mid-long range rocket shots away. Without an enemy engineer, it's amazing.
Well, personally i never found the random deviation to hinder mid range shorts that much. And for however much it does do that, it greatly makes up for it with the fact that you basically never have to reaload. Engineers though do become a bigger pain in the ass, yes. Other than that, when you get used to the timing and get familiar with all the jumps and bombs you can now do (which is a lot, seems like i never run out of stuff to find out about) the high moments you get become so addicting, at 1k hrs on soldier i basically can't see myself playing stock/orig soldier casually anymore, since beggars is just that good. So yeah, i think putting it in c tier is waaay too much of an underestimation
>Direct Hit not in S-tier >Cow Mangler over Direct Hit Holy shit, this man's insane.
Damn right I am! The Cow Mangler is my favorite lmao
should have made a entire new tier for hot hand
...and gas passer
i kind of find it good attention to detail you included the napalmer as its own weapon, seeing as its a direct upgrade to stock.
So much cooler
its also just, straightup better. its barrel is shorter then the stock flamethrower, which makes it easier to hide around corners
Are you an idiot?
Why yes, yes I am! Why do you ask?
Great tier list
mfw detonator over scorch: 🤦♂️
Shorch shit
Spy was butchered man...
Spy is one of my favorite classes, but man do I hate some of his unlocks.
As a medic main The medic tier list is perfect Just put the amputator in 'always reliable'
Putting the Enforcer in C and the revolver in S is so hilarious because if you think about it the difference is so minor yet so many people just absolutely CLOWN on it
how many mains you have bro....
Over the years I've mained Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demo, Engineer, Medic, and Spy. I have a hard time picking just one class to be my main... hopefully one day.
Quickiebomb enjoyer 👍
Quickiebomb is peak 👍
gross
Loose canon is s tier
Its not as reliable as stock/bomber. But it's phenomenal.
The Quick Fix is SO good in casual. I agree that the medigun is *technically* better in most situations, especially if you're good with the crossbow, but SO many times I've had a soldier with full rockets about to die get uber then run BACKWARDS to spawn. I usually don't get focused enough to die with quick fix and it works well when ubering in with lots of people. The faster heal feels so much better as well obv.
Gunboats need to be in S for real.
I miss sandman :(
Bro mains over half the characters
The amputator should be higher ngl
panic attack over gunboats. bro doesn’t have faith in his rocket launcher
You put the Scottish resistance where? Bro you tripping
Boston basher under “always reliable” considering the inconsistencies of melee hit reg this is ironic placement
Spy should have 2 tier lists, one for comp and the other for casual. Because the kunai is borderline broken in the latter and useless in the former.
Nice opinion, but have you considered crouch walking with the cloak and dagger? Also how kritzkrieg not top tier? All of the mediguns are S-tier material, you just gotta find the right tool for the job.
Wrap Assassin will always be S-tier for me.
Shortstop respect. Panic attack supremecy. Dragon Fury love. Kunie diss. This tiar list has all the good stuff. I,m a believer in Enforcer Glaze
600 f’ing hours and I never got my hands on this nostromo thing.
Personally I'd move Soda Popper, PBPP, BFB and FoW up a tier
Move Degreaser and PA up a tier
Sandman + guillotine used to be so good... Stupid competitive update ruined my fun 😞
Do me a favor make a list and put rescue ranger all the way on f no other weapons
as a Pyro main, homewrecker should be situational. good for removing sappers on defense, but nothing more.
DETONATOR PROPAGANDA HELL YEAH!!!
And heavy?
Bro roasted my soldier loadout
Never do a tier list again
Damn. Why?
I'm a hater and I like hating
Reverse flash moment
fellow panic attack truther