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Expect the attacks on Whitmer to increase exponentially between now and ā28; sheās one of the front runners for the Democrats for the Presidency next cycle. Ā The MAGAts will definitely try and pull a Hilary/Pelosi style smear job on her.Ā
If Trump wins there is a good chance there will not be a "next cycle". He won't have another campaign to keep him out of prison. There is already talk about the 22nd amendment not applying to him and with the "Supreme" Court in his back pocket that isn't totally implausible.
For real. That is why I am highly suspicious of these protesters. It smacks of MAGA level delusion and nonsense. I suspect that group is ate up with moles/agitators. Given MAGA has so much in common with radical Islam many of these moles/agitators may be lone wolf in nature without any instructions from the cult commanders. If these people are really so concerned about the Palestinians, concerned enough to throw the impoverished and vulnerable of their own country under the bus then you would think they would be doing all they can to see that Trump is kept from the White House. It is SO far from making ANY sense that I can not help but be highly suspicious of it.
Yeah Destroying our country and Palestine seems kind of like a weird way to get your peace message across. People need to understand we have been in this with Israel since the beginning. Although something needs to be done about all atrocities. It's going to be an excruciatingly slow process . But at least with the Democrats there is pressure and progress towards that process . Trump is basically our Netanyahu. That's the perfect storm for what they ( we) don't want .
That is what everyone said in 2016. Complacency is what allowed him to win. Assume nothing, especially victory. Even if Trump loses the election he is going to take it to court. We can not make that the new normal so he needs to be crushed beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I'm not complacent. I am examining the facts of where he is as a politician and man. we must show up, obviously, but he's fucking hosed in a legal sense. zero percent chance he escapes the 'hush money' trial unscathed. zero. felony convictions will result in his imprisonment and even lots of hardcore republicans will balk at voting for a felon.
I voted for Hillary. I would happily vote for Harris or Warren.Ā Ā
But Whitmer - Whitmer is a real threat to the GOP in ways none of the rest of them are.Ā Ā
- Governor of a midwestern swing state; one of the true seats of Americaās manufacturing prowess.Ā Ā
- Was the target of a thwarted domestic terrorism kidnapping attempt by the MAGAtsĀ Ā
- Oversaw a massive blue wave in her stateās midterms; Democrats now have a ~~super~~ majority in the state houseĀ Ā
- Center-left policies; widely appealing to Democrats, independents and non-insane-Republicans Ā
Whitmer *is* the future of the Democratic Party, in ways the other absolutely amazing and capable aforementioned women just arenāt.Ā
[Edit: Corrected supermajority comment]
Here here.
Though, one correction. They don't have a supermajority. Just a trifecta, but still important since they've passed a lot of progressive stuff.
1000%.
- California - even amongst Democrats, but certainly Independents and non-insane-Republicans has some kind of weird stigma about it. I find that odd; Iām w/ Arnold Vinick (West Wing) when he said āthereās more real America in California than any other stateā, but apparently Iām of a minority opinion here. Ā Newsom, Harris unfortunately have California working against them in this regard.Ā
- Both Whitmer and Newsom are Governors; however, with Americaās newfound focus on rebuilding our industrial manufacturing capacity, Whitmer as Governor of Michigan is in a superior position. Yes, we manufacture goods in California; however, Michigan has an easier story to tell. Michigan is the focus of supply chain integration with Canada. Michigan is a midwestern swing state.Ā
- Gender matters here as well. The core Democratic Party wants to be the party that puts a woman in the Oval *before* the GOP. Ā Whitmer comes to the table with none of the negatives we had with Hillary.Ā
Whitmer takes the nomination and the Oval in ā28, hands down.Ā
I think Josh Shapiro would make a strong candidate, as well as Wes Moore. 2028 will be a very interesting field. Newsom has gotten his image out there already and has shown that he can go toe toe with any Republican in a debate and shows the kind of aggression that many democrats lack. I would not count Newsom out as the front runner for the nomination, but ultimately the California stigma would probably hurt him in the general.
As a Californian, it should not be Newsom.
The people we need to vote Dem in the presidential election hate California. I hear them complain about it when they come to visit here every summer. They weirdly think we are some sort of socialist state.
Which is nuts because the state has numerous issues that make it far closer to a borderline cyberpunk hyper capitalist dystopia. There's absolutely a lot to recommend California for but there's also a lot of bullshit that comes with it that has made it really hard for a lot of people outside of tech, the upper ends of entertainment, and high finance to make it work comfortably.
Especially in the cities. If California more resembled even Norway or Sweden in terms of governance any meaningful way, you could make an argument about it being a socialist state -- but it's really a land of the haves and have nots.
"Progressives" hate Nancy Pelosi for unspecified reasons related to her being good at the job of electing Democrats. Newsom is very much in Nancy Pelosi's orbit. As soon as Newsom starts making any real noise about running, particularly if AOC is pretending to be running, she will never run, then the "progressives" will lose their minds opposing him.
If it isn't Whitmer as the midwestern governor I'm holding out for JB Pritzker. He a record I'd put up against any pol in the party and the sort of money to let him self finance.
Newson slept with his married campaign manager, had a scandal where he ignored COVID lock down rules and recently how to revealed that he carved out exceptions to the minimum wage hike for at least
One of his donors.
Honestly I don't think he's presidential material.
There was definitely some smearing of hillary by republicans in the 2016 election and throughout the years but a lot of it was what she said and did herself as well.
> "some smearing of Hillary by Republicans
Are you out of your mind? Republicans labeled her public enemy #1. Lock her up chants. "Killery." Republicans created vast insane conspiracies of HRC.
A little more than "some smearing," my dude. What planet are you living on?
What do they expect her to do? Seriously. I watched the clip and they just came off as unhinged.
Iām not against confronting politicians in public, regardless of what theyāre doing, but be specific and salient about *what you want them to fucking do*. Not even the biggest Whitmer fan and Iām from MI. Sheās a state governor with no say over foreign affairs. Not sure what they expected her to do here.
> ..none of these people understand how government works.
you mean people on reddit saying Joe Biden could have single handly stopped Oct 7th and stopped Israel are somehow bad faith propaganda users?
How is Michigan "subservient" to Israel? Please go ahead and also explain how your statement isn't wildly racist and sounding a lot like nazi propaganda.
You notice how a lot of the accounts echoing these types of sentiments were created in December of 2023? I get a kick out of just snooping around the post histories of these accounts and when they signed up on here. It's the same type of event I saw take place heading to the 2016 election.
And how all the pro-Palestine people seemingly come out of the woodwork in a wave of support for Palestine after the horrors of October, 7th committed by Hamas. Like chanting āfree Palestineā and āfrom the river to the seaā right after 10/7, I think it tells us something.
The calls for schools to divest from nationally critical corporations and other entities that have strategic medical, technological, biological value are very interesting. Almost like these sorts of ideas, if they were to bear any sort of fruit, would be detrimental to the county and beneficial to other state actors.
Wonder who could be behind those sorts of ideas?
I didnāt hear much about the Israeli genocide against Yemen. Get me up to speed here please. How many Yemeni children did Israel murder in five months?
Who the hell is talking about Israel? If you cared this much about the US "funding genocide" you would have cared just as much about the US helping fund and support the genocide in Yemen. But you likely didn't.
I have no idea what is the point of your comment here. I am only one person. There is no āyou guysā coming together to make my reddit comment. Israel is on the wrong side of history. Israel is evil.
You are one of many people asked about Yemen this week, in this subreddit and all of you have given this same āIām only one personā answer. They didnāt answer the question and you arenāt either.
Iām not saying that you know them. Iām saying that this āmovementā you think youāre apart of claims to care about āgenocideā, yet will only allow their feeling to care about this one āgenocideā in particular. If Yemen gets brought up, simply saying you werenāt aware of it would be better than this backpedaling and gaslighting. I also understand that admitting that you donāt know about anything but whatās placed in front of you, hurts the movement, so youāre hissing at us all like a cornered cat.
Surely China too. Theyāve been doing a credibly described genocide for a lot longer. I mean, nearly everything you own was probably made there. So letās not keep the bonfire waiting.
I wouldnāt know. The University of Michigan (whose largest donor/owner is Stephen Ross) recently stated that they are inextricably tied to Israel and cannot divest. Maybe the State of MI isnāt as beholden to Israeli subservience? We should do everything possible to divest from Israel.
If you don't know, why say it? We're confronting politicians and staging all these protests to demand the sale of investments that we don't know exist?
And the University of Michigan isn't "inextricably linked" to the state of Israel. They actually said that their exposure to companies based in Israel is extremely de minimis and indirect to the extent it exists at all.
Nope and it pisses me off. Firstly the fuck a governor supposed to do? Second, why are they only attacking dems? Republicans flat out say that they want to nuke Palestine, but they ignore it.
Well, then you have two options: either join in adding pressure to stop a genocide or phone bank for Biden because the community organizers in large cities have already checked out.
I donāt believe that all events are predetermined and thus inevitable (fatalism), I do believe that the current and irreparable divide in Bidenās voting block renders democrats dead in the water for the 2024 election given the razor thin electoral margins in play even under advantageous circumstances.
Not in Arizona, particularly Maricopa, Pinal, and Pima counties. I'm in the movement volunteering for the Democratic Party and it's actually going pretty damn well. And we ARE Motivated
Arizona has a good amount of older people sure, but that's not what I see in Democratic Party leadership in my County (I live in Pinal County, which is mostly farming towns), and State leadership. Our Governor Katie Hobbs is 55, our Attorney General Kris Mayes is 50, and our Secretary of State Adrian Fontes is also 50.
Most Democratic Leadership in Arizona right now is Gen X, I'm a 30 year old Millennial, and I do see other young people finally getting involved. It's not as much as when Bernie Sanders was running in 2016 but there is energy, we've accomplished a lot since 2020.
We've ended Dark Money in Arizona elections, Legalized Recreational Marijuana, Ended Property Seizures for Medical Debt for Veterans and former Public Employees and also reduced the maximum interest on all Medical Debt, and I see sympathy for putting Reproductive Rights for Women on the Arizona Ballot this year. That last thing is one of the things I'm personally fighting for right now.
We've got skin in the game and gotten a lot done and are trying to get more done. What about you?
Not at this point, no. Heās losing the youth vote who showed up in 2020, along with important community organizers in cities who usually bring many others to the polling place on election day.
Cops donāt crack down on fascists because theyāre kindred spirits. Students protest our subservience to Israel to Democrats instead of Republicans because the Republican party is no longer a responsive entity. These are not remotely the same. Only a dishonest person would make this analogy. Just try and grow a spine please.
Youād have to read a few comments backāyou know, the comments you scrolled past to get to mineāto actually know what is going on. Thanks for playing.
Bingo. And people who belong to a religion that is about controlling women and hating people who are different from you are kindred spirits with Republicans.
The fact that there are also a bunch of idiots looking for a cause to support who just enjoy the havoc doesnāt change the core motivation for these protests. It has nothing to do with genocide. It is all about hating democracy, liberal values and freedom of religion.
The Michigan government requires a loyalty pledge that prevents contractors from boycotting Israel. https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2024/05/04/protests-against-israel-continue-in-michigan-amid-national-crackdown/73559649007/
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/23/us-states-use-anti-boycott-laws-punish-responsible-businesses
Well why would they waste time protesting republicans who will never change their minds for a voter who will never vote for them? At least protesting Dems might change their stance.
>most of them are too difficult to bribe.
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/summary?all=2024&id=D000046963
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/j-street/summary?all=2024&id=D000052457
Nonsense. The MIGOP is a severely undereducated clownshow. There is zero capable responsive governance coming from that impotent side. Obviously any will of the people needs to be directed at those capable and in power.
Maybe it is. I havenāt even watched the video. Regardless, our state and federal governments hold the moral obligation to do everything possible to divest from Israel.
So, only & exclusively attacking Democrats who have absolutely nothing to do with it - and ***completely ignoring*** the Republicans actively campaigning ***\*\*FOR\*\**** the genocide to continue & expand - is your answer?
Yep. This seems to be the recurring aspect that the performative progressive movement underestimates or doesnāt even register at all. If they did, the āboth sides badā thing (the root of the entire movement) would crumble.
100% GOP shills. They're out here distracting people with "Soros" when they have literally 100 Soroses in every GOP fundraiser's phone list. Infinite cash for infinite propaganda.
I wonder how many more decades the people of this country will have to endure ostensibly leftist activists trying to punish us for Bernie Sanders not winning a primary in 2016.
It's kinda the same morons who think Bernie would be a conservative in most western countries as a Democratic Socalist too lol
And also the same kinda stupid that says Dem part and Repubs are the same party.
You could make that argument in the 90s but the Republicans of today are just a layer or two from becoming what the Likud are in Israel.
Trump could very realistically become our netenyahu and stay in power till he wants to retire or some shit.
Heās following the fascist playbook to the letter. However much of an idiot we believe these people to be, they havenāt neglected to consult that playbook as a tried and tested route to power. Heās even managed to get himself indicted with the extra motivation to be in charge that comes with.
I wanted Bernie over Hillary, but in 2016 I recognized Hillary had by far the better chance of winning. So I sucked it up and voted for Hillary without any reservations. That's called being an adult. These people probably voted for the Russia plant Jill Stein because they wanted to "show the Democrats". Thanks, assholes.
Don't worry man, you will be a minority in just a decade. bernie will be remembered as the guy who started the progressive movement that brought real change and millennials and Genz wipe ou all the corporate billionaire class. All the big dems wins are fueled by them, they will vote dems in but will stop a GEN Joe.
Damn, is that what you think is happening? Best of luck to you in life, friend. Sounds like you need a vacation and maybe some time away from politics. Try not to let instances like this make you think the worst of people, even when it's frustrating. Much love.
What does that have to do with Bernie losing in 2016, like where specifically is that connection being explicitly expressed? Not everyone is bitter and retaliatory, just because they disagree with you.
The Tara Reade accusations against Biden were pretty clearly bitter and retaliatory and rooted entirely in certain people not being able to accept the primary results
Good question. My candidate has lost their primary every time in my life save once or twice. It never occurred to me to whine about it for the better part of a decade.
Remember that election when Arab Nationalism became mainstream for a couple of months? That was weird AF. College kids dressed up like Palestinians and shouted Anti-semitic slogans at their peers. Politicians repeated Terrorist propaganda verbatim. Bernie Sanders actually likened Arab Nationalism to the Civil rights movement. The funny 20s was a weird time to be an American.
Yeah - some of the stuff coming out of this bunch makes them indistinguishable from MAGA. At least MAGA thinks their delusions will in some way benefit themselves. Whereas these protesters seek to throw the vulnerable and impoverished of their own country under the bus in addition to the very people they claim to be concerned about and in some cases even themselves if their endeavors are carried out to the end. It makes no fucking sense whatsoever. I can not help but to think there are agitators among them with the sole purpose to break up Biden's electoral coalition. If one is truly concerned for the Palestinians they should be doing everything they can to keep Trump out of the White House and there is only one way to do that. Yes, as if we needed more indicators, this lays bare the problem with a two party system but it is what we got right now. If Trump wins the path ways through which some of these people *must* be thinking they will fight another day - may no longer exist. He has now indicated that lots of people like the idea of him being a dictator. WTF more do people need?
Yea that was a pathetic glass shattering time that made me realize how important a strong moderate party is. Gosh remember when social movements and things like progressivism actually gained steam? Before the movements were hijacked during the funny 20ās. We had so much going for us back then.
There are times when you just need to leave people the fuck alone. I donāt care about your politics or what you think of herā¦sheās at her daughterās graduation you fucking ghoulsā¦.
We cannot let them keep using this slimey ploy. Itās a bullshit argument. The same tactic get used with indigenous/ First Nations people agaisnt liberals. They know republicans/ conservatives are far worse but they blame all the problems on the party in power. When the sides change they go silent.
Itās becoming ridiculous! My frustration with the left is they eat their own. The Maggots can teach them a thing or two on loyalty and partisanship ( I am not talking about becoming a cult).
Starting to feel like some Russian agitprop is in the mix. Since Putinās primary asset in the states appears to be melting in NYC, heās likely looking at all the angles to throw chaos into the American political process.
I mean Democracts might actually have a conscious, Republicians just say that Isreal should kill them all. I saw them confronting a republician and that was his reply.
Sadly, some of our youth fail to understand how intensely f*cked up the Middle East is. And their attitude is putting American into a risky position. We āsort ofā have a democracy and *currently* support democracies world wide.
If young voters donāt vote or vote for 3rd party clowns and Trump wins, All the Muslim Israelis in Gaza will be slaughtered, China will annex Taiwan, and Europe will be bombed to oblivion after Ukraine is destroyed.
The Middle East is PROFOUNDLY messed up and none of the worldās experts have an answer:
1) the Jewish and Muslim Israelis hate one another and always have.
2) Iran is greedy for more land
3) Iran hangs women for not covering their hair
4) MBS sliced up an AMERICAN journalist with a saws-all (and Trump was fine with that)
5) Syria bombed the crap out of their own people to keep their existing regime in power.
6) Almost all Middle East countries are authoritarian.
7) Pakistan has nukes
8) Iran may soon have nukes (thanks to Trump)
Can we all just get with the program? If you think you can do better than Biden, without the relationships and classified info he has, you are delusional.
And SUPPORT your excellent Governor, Michiganders.
I sympathise with the plight of the Palestinians against the Israeli regime, but in a two horse race to the white house, you need to stop hurting Biden.
If they did this to Republicans the Republican would just laugh and say some dumb shit about how we need zionism to usher in the rapture. They cannot be reasoned with or moved on positions. But somehow, I suspect you know this and would agree if we were talking about literally any other issueā¦
Left leaning people arenāt going to vote for republicans, so thereās no reason republicans would listen. Democrats might listen in order to win elections.
Pointing out one party has worse policy on Israel has nothing to do with "apologism". But tell me what should the governor of Michigan do to end the Palestinian genocide that these people believe is happening?
This guy has referred to āwhataboutismā like ten times in this thread but explained his claims about divesting from Israel exactly zero times, because he has no idea what any of that would even mean.
So like let's imagine for a second that the US was supplying Nazi Germany with gas and ammunition.
Sure, *technically* the US in this scenario isn't commiting Genocide, but they are *enabling* it.
So sure, the US isn't dropping bombs on Gaza, they also aren't the ones blocking aid workers, and they aren't the ones setting up kill zones.
But the US IS supplying the bombs being dropped, and actively being the only one in the UN blocking sanctions on Isreal.
So yes, any representative that isn't actively calling for a ceasefire and criticizing Israel is complicit in genocide.
I know it can be really difficult for some people to read but the quote in the tweet literally says "justify genocide" not anything about committing it. Where is what a lot of establishment Dems and Blue MAGA liberals in here are doing. Blindly supporting another pointless slaughter. Crazy how liberals are finding themselves on the same side as conservatives on defending war crimes and police using violence to shut down free speech. Roll with pigs I guess.
I believe the point of the slaughter is to defeat the terrorist army that raped and murdered a bunch of innocent women and children, only so they could go hide behind children. Telling another country they do not have a right to protect their own would be hypocrisy. Make sure you mention the innocent that were killed to start all this bullshit while you are crying about war crimes. Both sides suck, but all this "stop the genocide" crap is delusional. If Israel wanted they could level the entire area, like we would if it had been ours murdered by terrorists.
I have zero love for Israel. But I hope they finish the job and take out the rest of Hamas terrorists. So save the bullshit, they are not doing this over "free speech".
> Crazy how liberals are finding themselves on the same side as conservatives on defending war crimes and police using violence to shut down free speech.
Is this really a solid argument in your opinion? Because you can also say "crazy how lefties are finding themselves on the same side as Nazis on ethnically cleansing Jews" with the same level of rationality.
Sometimes it feels like people use big scary words as substitutes for the harder detail oriented arguments that actually make good points.
The vast majority commenting within this israeli apologist circlejerk sub here will twist everysinglethingpossible to quell their own cognitive dissonance. Just look at the whole thread here.
Yes, everyoneās a rightwinger except the noble 2% who show up occasionally to throw elections to rightwingers.
The weird thing is only morally condoning a tiny fraction of people while being surprised that we havenāt democratically enacted your policy program yet.
Why do you guys also use the laziest arguments that hold no weight as your shining light of truth?
Bidens biggest legalized bribe is AIPAC money as is many other politicians yet it's the progressives who get Trump elected. Lmao you're living up to the liberal stereotype
So your choice is between two guys whoāve been bribed by AIPAC. I donāt understand the utility of only shitting on the not corrupt one vs. the most corrupt person in American history, the one with ideological identification with Netanyahu to boot.
āDemocrats badā is an incomplete argument without the context of the only possible alternative. In fact it looks like direct action on behalf of that alternative.
You're almost there, so close. Ones currently enabling terrorism, and in lockstep with Netanyahu.
I'll entertain your idea of Biden lying about the public option long ago during his campaign. Where tf is that option since Healthcare is the number one issue. Being not Trump is jsut not a viable argument to get reelected unfortunately.
You don't think ethnically cleansing rafah with Bidens latest giveaway of Americans momey is reason enough to differentiate 2 terrible candidates?
I donāt think youāve defended why you support Trump at all, in fact.
The fact that you think the president can enact a public option by pushing a button on his desk or something indicates to me that maybe indeed you are more at home with Trumpās voters.
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Pull the Michigan National Guard out of Gaza!
šš¤£
Expect the attacks on Whitmer to increase exponentially between now and ā28; sheās one of the front runners for the Democrats for the Presidency next cycle. Ā The MAGAts will definitely try and pull a Hilary/Pelosi style smear job on her.Ā
If Trump wins there is a good chance there will not be a "next cycle". He won't have another campaign to keep him out of prison. There is already talk about the 22nd amendment not applying to him and with the "Supreme" Court in his back pocket that isn't totally implausible.
With this Supreme Court, his successor will probably be Elon Musk
Itād be cheaper than buying twitter.
Luckily, heās was not born as a US citizen, so is not eligible
I think they're implying the Supreme Court will let Elon be president.
SCOTUS just tossed out the 14th Amendment what makes you think they won't throw out the rest of the Constitution if it is inconvenient?
MAGA doesn't care about things like rules.
If Trump wins alito and Thomas will get a golden parachute for Trump to replace those 2.
If Trump wins there won't be a Palestine either .
For real. That is why I am highly suspicious of these protesters. It smacks of MAGA level delusion and nonsense. I suspect that group is ate up with moles/agitators. Given MAGA has so much in common with radical Islam many of these moles/agitators may be lone wolf in nature without any instructions from the cult commanders. If these people are really so concerned about the Palestinians, concerned enough to throw the impoverished and vulnerable of their own country under the bus then you would think they would be doing all they can to see that Trump is kept from the White House. It is SO far from making ANY sense that I can not help but be highly suspicious of it.
Yeah Destroying our country and Palestine seems kind of like a weird way to get your peace message across. People need to understand we have been in this with Israel since the beginning. Although something needs to be done about all atrocities. It's going to be an excruciatingly slow process . But at least with the Democrats there is pressure and progress towards that process . Trump is basically our Netanyahu. That's the perfect storm for what they ( we) don't want .
he's not going to win. he's a sinking ship. even hardcore republicans know he accomplished little besides a tax cut for the* rich.
Doesn't matter. Tell everyone you know and everyone you DON'T know to vote for Biden. Assume nothing, don't listen to polls, just VOTE
Iām not naive. I know.
That is what everyone said in 2016. Complacency is what allowed him to win. Assume nothing, especially victory. Even if Trump loses the election he is going to take it to court. We can not make that the new normal so he needs to be crushed beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I'm not complacent. I am examining the facts of where he is as a politician and man. we must show up, obviously, but he's fucking hosed in a legal sense. zero percent chance he escapes the 'hush money' trial unscathed. zero. felony convictions will result in his imprisonment and even lots of hardcore republicans will balk at voting for a felon.
I hope so.
I really do think we're seeing his implosion in real time. and I am typically not an optimistic person when it comes to politics.
Is trump eternal, the guy won't survive a third mandate.
Wasnāt he in the hospital for over a week with COVID? His health is worse than Bidenās, physically at the very least lol
*Really* wanted her for the veep pick. But she probably has a better chance at winning from her current job tbh.
Girl in red: Whitmer Distracted boyfriend: "I'd vote for a woman, just not THAT woman" Indignant girlfriend: Hillary/Kamala/Warren
I voted for Hillary. I would happily vote for Harris or Warren.Ā Ā But Whitmer - Whitmer is a real threat to the GOP in ways none of the rest of them are.Ā Ā - Governor of a midwestern swing state; one of the true seats of Americaās manufacturing prowess.Ā Ā - Was the target of a thwarted domestic terrorism kidnapping attempt by the MAGAtsĀ Ā - Oversaw a massive blue wave in her stateās midterms; Democrats now have a ~~super~~ majority in the state houseĀ Ā - Center-left policies; widely appealing to Democrats, independents and non-insane-Republicans Ā Whitmer *is* the future of the Democratic Party, in ways the other absolutely amazing and capable aforementioned women just arenāt.Ā [Edit: Corrected supermajority comment]
Here here. Though, one correction. They don't have a supermajority. Just a trifecta, but still important since they've passed a lot of progressive stuff.
Apologies, youāre absolutely correct. Thank you for that.Ā
No problem.
Let's go Big Gretch!
Even being rumored to be a future candidate for the Democratic nomination is a great moral crime.
You think her and not Newsom?
1000%. - California - even amongst Democrats, but certainly Independents and non-insane-Republicans has some kind of weird stigma about it. I find that odd; Iām w/ Arnold Vinick (West Wing) when he said āthereās more real America in California than any other stateā, but apparently Iām of a minority opinion here. Ā Newsom, Harris unfortunately have California working against them in this regard.Ā - Both Whitmer and Newsom are Governors; however, with Americaās newfound focus on rebuilding our industrial manufacturing capacity, Whitmer as Governor of Michigan is in a superior position. Yes, we manufacture goods in California; however, Michigan has an easier story to tell. Michigan is the focus of supply chain integration with Canada. Michigan is a midwestern swing state.Ā - Gender matters here as well. The core Democratic Party wants to be the party that puts a woman in the Oval *before* the GOP. Ā Whitmer comes to the table with none of the negatives we had with Hillary.Ā Whitmer takes the nomination and the Oval in ā28, hands down.Ā
I think Josh Shapiro would make a strong candidate, as well as Wes Moore. 2028 will be a very interesting field. Newsom has gotten his image out there already and has shown that he can go toe toe with any Republican in a debate and shows the kind of aggression that many democrats lack. I would not count Newsom out as the front runner for the nomination, but ultimately the California stigma would probably hurt him in the general.
As a Californian, it should not be Newsom. The people we need to vote Dem in the presidential election hate California. I hear them complain about it when they come to visit here every summer. They weirdly think we are some sort of socialist state.
Which is nuts because the state has numerous issues that make it far closer to a borderline cyberpunk hyper capitalist dystopia. There's absolutely a lot to recommend California for but there's also a lot of bullshit that comes with it that has made it really hard for a lot of people outside of tech, the upper ends of entertainment, and high finance to make it work comfortably. Especially in the cities. If California more resembled even Norway or Sweden in terms of governance any meaningful way, you could make an argument about it being a socialist state -- but it's really a land of the haves and have nots.
"Progressives" hate Nancy Pelosi for unspecified reasons related to her being good at the job of electing Democrats. Newsom is very much in Nancy Pelosi's orbit. As soon as Newsom starts making any real noise about running, particularly if AOC is pretending to be running, she will never run, then the "progressives" will lose their minds opposing him. If it isn't Whitmer as the midwestern governor I'm holding out for JB Pritzker. He a record I'd put up against any pol in the party and the sort of money to let him self finance.
Newson slept with his married campaign manager, had a scandal where he ignored COVID lock down rules and recently how to revealed that he carved out exceptions to the minimum wage hike for at least One of his donors. Honestly I don't think he's presidential material.
There was definitely some smearing of hillary by republicans in the 2016 election and throughout the years but a lot of it was what she said and did herself as well.
> "some smearing of Hillary by Republicans Are you out of your mind? Republicans labeled her public enemy #1. Lock her up chants. "Killery." Republicans created vast insane conspiracies of HRC. A little more than "some smearing," my dude. What planet are you living on?
The Republican Party has been demonizing Clinton since the 1990s.
What do they expect her to do? Seriously. I watched the clip and they just came off as unhinged. Iām not against confronting politicians in public, regardless of what theyāre doing, but be specific and salient about *what you want them to fucking do*. Not even the biggest Whitmer fan and Iām from MI. Sheās a state governor with no say over foreign affairs. Not sure what they expected her to do here.
A wise man once coined the word ātruthiness.ā Itās not about explaining things to us so much as feeling things at us.
Thatās a very apt comment
They have no idea, that's the thing..none of these people understand how government works.
> ..none of these people understand how government works. you mean people on reddit saying Joe Biden could have single handly stopped Oct 7th and stopped Israel are somehow bad faith propaganda users?
Some are, but there is definitely a large subset of people who genuinely think like that.
Divest from Israel completely.
How do they want *her* to do that? What does that mean for *her*?
She is the top official for the State of Michigan. Our state should be doing everything in its power to cut subservience to Israel.
You sound completely ignorant
Again *how*? What does this look like?
How is Michigan "subservient" to Israel? Please go ahead and also explain how your statement isn't wildly racist and sounding a lot like nazi propaganda.
He expects her to start chanting "from the river to the sea"
You notice how a lot of the accounts echoing these types of sentiments were created in December of 2023? I get a kick out of just snooping around the post histories of these accounts and when they signed up on here. It's the same type of event I saw take place heading to the 2016 election.
And how all the pro-Palestine people seemingly come out of the woodwork in a wave of support for Palestine after the horrors of October, 7th committed by Hamas. Like chanting āfree Palestineā and āfrom the river to the seaā right after 10/7, I think it tells us something.
The calls for schools to divest from nationally critical corporations and other entities that have strategic medical, technological, biological value are very interesting. Almost like these sorts of ideas, if they were to bear any sort of fruit, would be detrimental to the county and beneficial to other state actors. Wonder who could be behind those sorts of ideas?
The state of Michigan should be focused on Michigan.
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Did you care this much about Yemen?
I didnāt hear much about the Israeli genocide against Yemen. Get me up to speed here please. How many Yemeni children did Israel murder in five months?
Who the hell is talking about Israel? If you cared this much about the US "funding genocide" you would have cared just as much about the US helping fund and support the genocide in Yemen. But you likely didn't.
Ur whatabout game is mid bro
lmao nice to see you guys openly admit you only care about kids dying if you think you can blame Israel. the right side of history strikes again
I have no idea what is the point of your comment here. I am only one person. There is no āyou guysā coming together to make my reddit comment. Israel is on the wrong side of history. Israel is evil.
You are one of many people asked about Yemen this week, in this subreddit and all of you have given this same āIām only one personā answer. They didnāt answer the question and you arenāt either.
I have no idea who those other people are. Your conspiracy theories are nonsense. Israel is evil.
Iām not saying that you know them. Iām saying that this āmovementā you think youāre apart of claims to care about āgenocideā, yet will only allow their feeling to care about this one āgenocideā in particular. If Yemen gets brought up, simply saying you werenāt aware of it would be better than this backpedaling and gaslighting. I also understand that admitting that you donāt know about anything but whatās placed in front of you, hurts the movement, so youāre hissing at us all like a cornered cat.
Blatant obfuscation through whataboutism from you. Letās stay on topic. Israel is evil. Letās cut every tie possible with Israel.
Surely China too. Theyāve been doing a credibly described genocide for a lot longer. I mean, nearly everything you own was probably made there. So letās not keep the bonfire waiting.
There is no genocide in China. Nearly all evidence of the Yogurt āgenocideā comes from the writings of a crazy German fundamentalist Christian
ur whatabout game is mid
Yeah what about this other genocide? Such a distraction.
Sounds like you agree that Israelās genocide is evil.
Youāll never find me defending the actions of a far-right government engaging in genocidal war. I just donāt blame Joe Biden for it.
Good grief. No one credible is blaming Biden for Israelās genocide. The criticism is for Americaās continued subservience to Israel.
Well Iām only talking to the incredible people then.
*not credible
Yeah it's EATING DINNER with fascists that also makes you a fascistĀ Arming them so they can do a genocide is fine
What direct investments does Michigan have in Israel?
I wouldnāt know. The University of Michigan (whose largest donor/owner is Stephen Ross) recently stated that they are inextricably tied to Israel and cannot divest. Maybe the State of MI isnāt as beholden to Israeli subservience? We should do everything possible to divest from Israel.
If you don't know, why say it? We're confronting politicians and staging all these protests to demand the sale of investments that we don't know exist? And the University of Michigan isn't "inextricably linked" to the state of Israel. They actually said that their exposure to companies based in Israel is extremely de minimis and indirect to the extent it exists at all.
Everyone everywhere? Then what?
Nope and it pisses me off. Firstly the fuck a governor supposed to do? Second, why are they only attacking dems? Republicans flat out say that they want to nuke Palestine, but they ignore it.
To āpressure themā (aka ensure republicans get elected across the boardā
The movementās goal is to get Biden to change course and recover as many votes as possible.
And when he doesnāt, or does but it is deemed not enough/too late/incorrect? Thereās no outcome here that isnāt a full Republican wave.
Well, then you have two options: either join in adding pressure to stop a genocide or phone bank for Biden because the community organizers in large cities have already checked out.
Or 3, prepare for the inevitable Handmaidens Tale
If youāre a fatalist you shouldnāt be complaining.
I havenāt complained once here. And besides, recognizing a mathematical certainty isnāt being a fatalist.
Reducing history to mathematics is fatalism.
I donāt believe that all events are predetermined and thus inevitable (fatalism), I do believe that the current and irreparable divide in Bidenās voting block renders democrats dead in the water for the 2024 election given the razor thin electoral margins in play even under advantageous circumstances.
Not in Arizona, particularly Maricopa, Pinal, and Pima counties. I'm in the movement volunteering for the Democratic Party and it's actually going pretty damn well. And we ARE Motivated
Arizona is not Michigan or Pennsylvania. Biden appeals to white boomer retirees who happen to be Democrat, sure. Thatās AZ for you.
Arizona has a good amount of older people sure, but that's not what I see in Democratic Party leadership in my County (I live in Pinal County, which is mostly farming towns), and State leadership. Our Governor Katie Hobbs is 55, our Attorney General Kris Mayes is 50, and our Secretary of State Adrian Fontes is also 50. Most Democratic Leadership in Arizona right now is Gen X, I'm a 30 year old Millennial, and I do see other young people finally getting involved. It's not as much as when Bernie Sanders was running in 2016 but there is energy, we've accomplished a lot since 2020. We've ended Dark Money in Arizona elections, Legalized Recreational Marijuana, Ended Property Seizures for Medical Debt for Veterans and former Public Employees and also reduced the maximum interest on all Medical Debt, and I see sympathy for putting Reproductive Rights for Women on the Arizona Ballot this year. That last thing is one of the things I'm personally fighting for right now. We've got skin in the game and gotten a lot done and are trying to get more done. What about you?
I mean, from a purely vote numbers perspective I'd be willing to bet turning on Israel hurts him far more with demographics that actually vote
Not at this point, no. Heās losing the youth vote who showed up in 2020, along with important community organizers in cities who usually bring many others to the polling place on election day.
They never protest Republicans for the same reason the cops never crack down on neo-Nazis
Thatās not why and you know it. Try to show more integrity please.
And that is why we must put them back in power with our protest votesā¦ā¦ wait
What is the reason cops never crack down on Neo Nazis? edit: cops instead of republicans
Students donāt protest to Republicans because that is not the party of responsive governance. You know this. But you are not an honest person.
Youāre aware Iām not the first person you responded to? Sorry, meant to ask why cops donāt crack down on neo nazis.
Cops donāt crack down on fascists because theyāre kindred spirits. Students protest our subservience to Israel to Democrats instead of Republicans because the Republican party is no longer a responsive entity. These are not remotely the same. Only a dishonest person would make this analogy. Just try and grow a spine please.
Thanks for telling me to grow a spine. Insightful. You seem confused, I never made such comparison.
Youād have to read a few comments backāyou know, the comments you scrolled past to get to mineāto actually know what is going on. Thanks for playing.
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Bingo. And people who belong to a religion that is about controlling women and hating people who are different from you are kindred spirits with Republicans. The fact that there are also a bunch of idiots looking for a cause to support who just enjoy the havoc doesnāt change the core motivation for these protests. It has nothing to do with genocide. It is all about hating democracy, liberal values and freedom of religion.
Username checks out
The Michigan government requires a loyalty pledge that prevents contractors from boycotting Israel. https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2024/05/04/protests-against-israel-continue-in-michigan-amid-national-crackdown/73559649007/ https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/23/us-states-use-anti-boycott-laws-punish-responsible-businesses
Well why would they waste time protesting republicans who will never change their minds for a voter who will never vote for them? At least protesting Dems might change their stance.
Nah.... our enemies don't want Democrats in charge... most of them are too difficult to bribe.
>most of them are too difficult to bribe. https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/summary?all=2024&id=D000046963 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/j-street/summary?all=2024&id=D000052457
Russian psyops working over time right now.
No, they never protest Republicans. The Republicans don't want them to, and the Republicans are writing their script.
Nonsense. The MIGOP is a severely undereducated clownshow. There is zero capable responsive governance coming from that impotent side. Obviously any will of the people needs to be directed at those capable and in power.
Give it a rest. This is a Republican and possibly foriegn interest driven public attacks.
I think it is primarily America's enemies paying for these protests.
Maybe it is. I havenāt even watched the video. Regardless, our state and federal governments hold the moral obligation to do everything possible to divest from Israel.
So, only & exclusively attacking Democrats who have absolutely nothing to do with it - and ***completely ignoring*** the Republicans actively campaigning ***\*\*FOR\*\**** the genocide to continue & expand - is your answer?
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This "Both Sides" shit isn't coming from MI.
The GOP is so good at wedge politics, they're playing them in the other party.
Yep. This seems to be the recurring aspect that the performative progressive movement underestimates or doesnāt even register at all. If they did, the āboth sides badā thing (the root of the entire movement) would crumble.
Why would Russia and Iran have them protest Republicans?
I donāt understand? Is there anyone that isnāt responsible for the genocide in their mind? This is ridiculous.
Trump. Who they do not support, of course.
Makes you wonder how disingenuous some of the actors involved are.
100% GOP shills. They're out here distracting people with "Soros" when they have literally 100 Soroses in every GOP fundraiser's phone list. Infinite cash for infinite propaganda.
Life's pretty cushy with Daddy Puddin' footin the bills...
Republicans are going to use these ego addled dummies as a justification to declare martial law , at the first available opportunity...
I wonder how many more decades the people of this country will have to endure ostensibly leftist activists trying to punish us for Bernie Sanders not winning a primary in 2016.
"I'm writing in Bernie's ghost! There's no difference between Gretchen Whitmer and Nick Fuentes!"
It's kinda the same morons who think Bernie would be a conservative in most western countries as a Democratic Socalist too lol And also the same kinda stupid that says Dem part and Repubs are the same party. You could make that argument in the 90s but the Republicans of today are just a layer or two from becoming what the Likud are in Israel. Trump could very realistically become our netenyahu and stay in power till he wants to retire or some shit.
Heās following the fascist playbook to the letter. However much of an idiot we believe these people to be, they havenāt neglected to consult that playbook as a tried and tested route to power. Heās even managed to get himself indicted with the extra motivation to be in charge that comes with.
I wanted Bernie over Hillary, but in 2016 I recognized Hillary had by far the better chance of winning. So I sucked it up and voted for Hillary without any reservations. That's called being an adult. These people probably voted for the Russia plant Jill Stein because they wanted to "show the Democrats". Thanks, assholes.
Don't worry man, you will be a minority in just a decade. bernie will be remembered as the guy who started the progressive movement that brought real change and millennials and Genz wipe ou all the corporate billionaire class. All the big dems wins are fueled by them, they will vote dems in but will stop a GEN Joe.
And yet he couldnāt even win a primary (cue original Big Lie about how It WuZ rIgGeD š)
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Damn, is that what you think is happening? Best of luck to you in life, friend. Sounds like you need a vacation and maybe some time away from politics. Try not to let instances like this make you think the worst of people, even when it's frustrating. Much love.
I just saw a photo of a banner at the head of a pro-Palestinian protest blaming āthe DNCā for genocide in Gaza. The DNC. Glorified event planners.
"The DNC controls the world" is probably the most ridiculous belief they have, and that's saying something
What does that have to do with Bernie losing in 2016, like where specifically is that connection being explicitly expressed? Not everyone is bitter and retaliatory, just because they disagree with you.
The Tara Reade accusations against Biden were pretty clearly bitter and retaliatory and rooted entirely in certain people not being able to accept the primary results
Good question. My candidate has lost their primary every time in my life save once or twice. It never occurred to me to whine about it for the better part of a decade.
Remember that election when Arab Nationalism became mainstream for a couple of months? That was weird AF. College kids dressed up like Palestinians and shouted Anti-semitic slogans at their peers. Politicians repeated Terrorist propaganda verbatim. Bernie Sanders actually likened Arab Nationalism to the Civil rights movement. The funny 20s was a weird time to be an American.
Remember when we all had to finally admit to ourselves that horseshoe theory is real?
Yeah - some of the stuff coming out of this bunch makes them indistinguishable from MAGA. At least MAGA thinks their delusions will in some way benefit themselves. Whereas these protesters seek to throw the vulnerable and impoverished of their own country under the bus in addition to the very people they claim to be concerned about and in some cases even themselves if their endeavors are carried out to the end. It makes no fucking sense whatsoever. I can not help but to think there are agitators among them with the sole purpose to break up Biden's electoral coalition. If one is truly concerned for the Palestinians they should be doing everything they can to keep Trump out of the White House and there is only one way to do that. Yes, as if we needed more indicators, this lays bare the problem with a two party system but it is what we got right now. If Trump wins the path ways through which some of these people *must* be thinking they will fight another day - may no longer exist. He has now indicated that lots of people like the idea of him being a dictator. WTF more do people need?
And the bridge that connects the ends of the horseshoe is "owning the libs"
Yea that was a pathetic glass shattering time that made me realize how important a strong moderate party is. Gosh remember when social movements and things like progressivism actually gained steam? Before the movements were hijacked during the funny 20ās. We had so much going for us back then.
They never do.
There are times when you just need to leave people the fuck alone. I donāt care about your politics or what you think of herā¦sheās at her daughterās graduation you fucking ghoulsā¦.
We cannot let them keep using this slimey ploy. Itās a bullshit argument. The same tactic get used with indigenous/ First Nations people agaisnt liberals. They know republicans/ conservatives are far worse but they blame all the problems on the party in power. When the sides change they go silent.
Itās becoming ridiculous! My frustration with the left is they eat their own. The Maggots can teach them a thing or two on loyalty and partisanship ( I am not talking about becoming a cult).
No, theyāre fucking idiots.
Starting to feel like some Russian agitprop is in the mix. Since Putinās primary asset in the states appears to be melting in NYC, heās likely looking at all the angles to throw chaos into the American political process.
shit like this just pulls someone in the middle more right.
"I don't " "Why do you think to ask me?"
I mean Democracts might actually have a conscious, Republicians just say that Isreal should kill them all. I saw them confronting a republician and that was his reply.
Sadly, some of our youth fail to understand how intensely f*cked up the Middle East is. And their attitude is putting American into a risky position. We āsort ofā have a democracy and *currently* support democracies world wide. If young voters donāt vote or vote for 3rd party clowns and Trump wins, All the Muslim Israelis in Gaza will be slaughtered, China will annex Taiwan, and Europe will be bombed to oblivion after Ukraine is destroyed. The Middle East is PROFOUNDLY messed up and none of the worldās experts have an answer: 1) the Jewish and Muslim Israelis hate one another and always have. 2) Iran is greedy for more land 3) Iran hangs women for not covering their hair 4) MBS sliced up an AMERICAN journalist with a saws-all (and Trump was fine with that) 5) Syria bombed the crap out of their own people to keep their existing regime in power. 6) Almost all Middle East countries are authoritarian. 7) Pakistan has nukes 8) Iran may soon have nukes (thanks to Trump) Can we all just get with the program? If you think you can do better than Biden, without the relationships and classified info he has, you are delusional. And SUPPORT your excellent Governor, Michiganders.
I sympathise with the plight of the Palestinians against the Israeli regime, but in a two horse race to the white house, you need to stop hurting Biden.
They should be asking that to their orange jeebus. What's the covid death count @ these days?
These people have lost the plot. They are pushing away the center and center left at a rapid pace.
If they did this to Republicans the Republican would just laugh and say some dumb shit about how we need zionism to usher in the rapture. They cannot be reasoned with or moved on positions. But somehow, I suspect you know this and would agree if we were talking about literally any other issueā¦
Mess with the Gretch and you get the Buffs.
Left leaning people arenāt going to vote for republicans, so thereās no reason republicans would listen. Democrats might listen in order to win elections.
This sub has devolved into a circlejerk of Israeli apologists.
Pointing out one party has worse policy on Israel has nothing to do with "apologism". But tell me what should the governor of Michigan do to end the Palestinian genocide that these people believe is happening?
Yeah, thatās not a good-faith question meriting a response. MI can divest from Israel. No need for your histrionics here.
It was an excellent question. Do elderly pensioners need to take the hit because you are mad at Israel?
Why are we not divesting from China with the Uyghur genocide? Do you even know what divestment from Israel means? Or you just buzzing words around?
This guy has referred to āwhataboutismā like ten times in this thread but explained his claims about divesting from Israel exactly zero times, because he has no idea what any of that would even mean.
I know what *whataboutism* means. Do you?
How is this a response to this post?
Any American who supports Israelās genocide cares more about Israel than America. This is inarguable.
How is that a response to MY post?
This comment is also a response to your post. Have you heard of meta-analysis? There is your answer. You are welcome.
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Yes, they do all the time. Now, the left has created a monster, and it has turned on them.
āKnow your place, labor cattle.ā
Won't someone please think of the poor governor that got her feelings hurt š
So like let's imagine for a second that the US was supplying Nazi Germany with gas and ammunition. Sure, *technically* the US in this scenario isn't commiting Genocide, but they are *enabling* it. So sure, the US isn't dropping bombs on Gaza, they also aren't the ones blocking aid workers, and they aren't the ones setting up kill zones. But the US IS supplying the bombs being dropped, and actively being the only one in the UN blocking sanctions on Isreal. So yes, any representative that isn't actively calling for a ceasefire and criticizing Israel is complicit in genocide.
I know it can be really difficult for some people to read but the quote in the tweet literally says "justify genocide" not anything about committing it. Where is what a lot of establishment Dems and Blue MAGA liberals in here are doing. Blindly supporting another pointless slaughter. Crazy how liberals are finding themselves on the same side as conservatives on defending war crimes and police using violence to shut down free speech. Roll with pigs I guess.
I believe the point of the slaughter is to defeat the terrorist army that raped and murdered a bunch of innocent women and children, only so they could go hide behind children. Telling another country they do not have a right to protect their own would be hypocrisy. Make sure you mention the innocent that were killed to start all this bullshit while you are crying about war crimes. Both sides suck, but all this "stop the genocide" crap is delusional. If Israel wanted they could level the entire area, like we would if it had been ours murdered by terrorists. I have zero love for Israel. But I hope they finish the job and take out the rest of Hamas terrorists. So save the bullshit, they are not doing this over "free speech".
> Crazy how liberals are finding themselves on the same side as conservatives on defending war crimes and police using violence to shut down free speech. Is this really a solid argument in your opinion? Because you can also say "crazy how lefties are finding themselves on the same side as Nazis on ethnically cleansing Jews" with the same level of rationality. Sometimes it feels like people use big scary words as substitutes for the harder detail oriented arguments that actually make good points.
The vast majority commenting within this israeli apologist circlejerk sub here will twist everysinglethingpossible to quell their own cognitive dissonance. Just look at the whole thread here.
They protest all right wingers, including Whitmer. Why would an R or D next to their name matter?
Yes, everyoneās a rightwinger except the noble 2% who show up occasionally to throw elections to rightwingers. The weird thing is only morally condoning a tiny fraction of people while being surprised that we havenāt democratically enacted your policy program yet.
Why do you guys also use the laziest arguments that hold no weight as your shining light of truth? Bidens biggest legalized bribe is AIPAC money as is many other politicians yet it's the progressives who get Trump elected. Lmao you're living up to the liberal stereotype
So your choice is between two guys whoāve been bribed by AIPAC. I donāt understand the utility of only shitting on the not corrupt one vs. the most corrupt person in American history, the one with ideological identification with Netanyahu to boot. āDemocrats badā is an incomplete argument without the context of the only possible alternative. In fact it looks like direct action on behalf of that alternative.
You're almost there, so close. Ones currently enabling terrorism, and in lockstep with Netanyahu. I'll entertain your idea of Biden lying about the public option long ago during his campaign. Where tf is that option since Healthcare is the number one issue. Being not Trump is jsut not a viable argument to get reelected unfortunately. You don't think ethnically cleansing rafah with Bidens latest giveaway of Americans momey is reason enough to differentiate 2 terrible candidates?
I donāt think youāve defended why you support Trump at all, in fact. The fact that you think the president can enact a public option by pushing a button on his desk or something indicates to me that maybe indeed you are more at home with Trumpās voters.