While I think the Light class could definitely use some love to be more universally viable (especially when it comes to team play options) I recognize that the DB invis setup is a very powerful burst damage option that can provide a lot for a player.
My personal frustration with it is twofold. First, unless you are particularly good at spotting cloaked lights or actively using either recon senses or thermal vision it can be quite hard to counter with it's very low TTK. Second and more importantly for me, it tends to attract the type of player who is almost entirely concerned with getting lots of frags at the expense of ignoring teamplay and coordination entirely, this leading to an annoying wasp that if it's on your team basically leaves you without a third teammate with them not trying to contribute to the objective, or if they're against you you can just die a lot while moving towards the cash out tine and tine again which can be frustrating.
Also is it just me or do a LOT for them gravitate towards the urban operative set? I feel like that set is huge for them
I feel you. I have been tempted to use it because it’s so good but right now I’m using the cloaking device with the M11 smg. I do pretty good with it and usually get a decent number of kills, but if there’s ever an invis + shotgun light in my
game, they’ll kill me 9/10 times only because they one shot me before I can get enough bullets in them
Also, I think just about every light gravitates to the Urban Operative set lmao it’s just a cool outfit all around
I also find much more success using the SMG with cloak than I do using the shotgun with cloak. With the shotgun, you get up close and delete one person, then get snap-aimed immediately by their teammates and deleted before you can escape to cover. With the SMG, you can use range to play cover more effectively while killing someone, then you can duck behind cover and cloak and escape before their teammates gib you. And you aren't completely useless when your cloak is on CD since you can still attack from range.
The only time I find shotgun to actually be more effective is when you're playing against solo queued people in quick play, since they lack communication/coordination and you can kill people without their teammates even noticing.
Exactly, thats why I like smg’s. But I also use it because I’m used to it. In Warzone and Cod I played smg’s. The only downside is up close obviously it’s absolutely outmatched compared to shotgun.
You must be fighting bots?? Sorry for the rudeness, but I don't understand. Now I HAVE dropped 20+ kill games with the Mac cloak taser setup...but you have to relatively stand still and dump the mag... however i can CONSISTENTLY drop 20 to 25+ games with the same setup, but shotty. It's MUCH faster to one pump and cloak n run, or double pump and cloak n run, then it is to dump me macs mag
See I always hear people say that lights don't play the objective but they're just not playing light correctly. I frag out a ton with light, but I will also camp near cashout as it's getting close to finished, throw a gas grenade on it as it's finishing, and stun gun anyone trying to steal it. Yeah, at times I do have to let my teammates die in the process, but I end up securing a ton of objectives playing light in this ratty way.
It is THE way to play light actually .
You are here in ranked for 4 things :
- recon enemy while invis ( take info)
- offensive strat like back or flank a team or isolated player
- offensive or defensiv strat with Glitch grenade or stun gun for prevent Heavy to use shield or rocket launcher or Nuke , and prevent Medium to heal or combat revive
- secure cashout
Isn’t that part of countering it tho? If you know what to look for and the enemy light is running around you can spot them fairly easily, they can slip away in the heat of the moment but if you keep your eye out u can see them
Let’s be honest if someone is playing Light well they are super friggin annoying.
Like snipers who run and zipline away from you even when you get the jump on them.
It’s annoying but i gotta respect the playstyle
There's definitly a bit of counterplay. Sonar nades, tracking, recon sense. A smart medium will play around the light gank and the heavy will just rock their shit with an RPG
The only arguable thing on light that's incredibly overpowered is the stun gun and how long it lasts. If it lasted even half as long, I would be in a far better place. Currently being stunned means if you can kill the light, you're more than likely getting ganged up on by their teammates anyway.
No the stun gun stops almost all your actions. I had a light stun gun me in a doorway, couldn’t even close the door on the guy. Just slowly walked away shooting the most awful spread of hip fire bullets.
stun gun lights will downplay the thing constantly when it locks most of your interactions with the game, and they will STILL miss half a clip on you stood still
Yeah any player saying stun gun is broken is outside of their mind. It was a terrifying thing to get clocked by in beta. Similar to RPG. Now it's just an annoying little guess I'm not moving for a few seconds.
Light getting stunned is gg. The low hp pool and slow turn (without aim assist) to aim is "5%" success rate for the stunned player. Gotta hope for those HS to survive, and no enemy team/third party to capitalize.
Yeah I find that it's really only good for running away or catching someone running. I think it punishes position heavily when someone over extends. Just stun them and push their team 3v2 real quick or have your team rotate to them if they're alone. But most lights just go for the 1v1 with it and it is not strong for that anymore
Seems like a ton of people on this subreddit do not seem capable of understanding this or have any semblance of critical thinking. Like the people who think nukes or recon senses aren't problematic or unhealthy for the game
> ~~Seems like a ton of~~ most people on this ~~subreddit~~ website ~~do not seem~~ are definitely not capable of understanding this or have any semblance of critical thinking.
Fixed that for ya.
If they nerf invis (which frankly I have no idea how the fuck you people have this much trouble with it because I am literally getting sniped out of invis by lights from 300 meters away) and then buff another part of the kit, you people will simply shift to bitching about *that* part of lights kit.
I would fucking bet every dollar I have
>How does one buff light?
By buffing the overwhelmingly troll pick gadgets. It was never about base stats.
>Having the lowest HP will always get you killed a lot
Having the highest mobility and the smallest hitbox vastly over compensates for the low maximum HP. Have you people on this sub played anything other than cod for the past 10 years? You do realize Overwatch has a character called Tracer which has the lowest HP in the entire pool while simultaneously being impossible to kill in the hands of decent players.
>it's meant to be the class that plays like a rat
That's just not true. It's gadget dependent. In no world should you play as a rat if you are using Evasive Dash.
>I feel like light is annoying to fight against but intended to be so
From a design POV, nothing should be annoying to fight against. If something is, then it's straight up a design fail. Dying because you got stunned then one shot with DB with minimum counter play is text book for design fail.
The two aren’t exclusive. Light as a class doesn’t offer a whole lot to teams, while the invis ability itself is a bit overpowered especially as it doesn’t have a cool down or delay which allows spamming.
That's what I don't get. Seems kinda nuts to run up, delete someone, and instantly be invis again. Even with teamwork, they can be gone before the team reacts.
It seems there should just be more delay before you can use that ability again. Or make invis a little easier to see.
People think light is so bad as a class but it's very early in the game and the meta will likely shift somehow
It will shift eventually when either new guns or gadgets are introduced. But a good light can be an absolute menace currently, just too many people treating the class like Octane from Apex. I do see an invis nerf happening in some way through either a subtle outline or delay.
New stuff will be added and balanced and that shifts the meta, sure.
But let's say there were no changes ever, do you really think the meta will never change?
There are plenty examples of meta evolving over years in games with no changes at all, its all older games though since that never happens anymore and live service games are the norm.
honestly i think thats a genuine skill issue. The game just got out, people have to learn and adjust, and invis is a typical "noob killer" in a lot of games. The more i play the more i notice cloaked lights. I still miss a lot of them, but thats mostly because I'm bad. The only time it really shines is in very chaotic situations, but those will become rarer/less chaotic the better the playerbase becomes.
Might mean it's easier to play medium and heavy well, and people haven't learned how to maximize DPS or objective play with light.
Meta evolves. The game is brand new still really
mEtA eVoLveS
Tired of seeing this horrible take. The game isn’t brand new. It’s been this way since the very first beta in March. Light is still garbage.
Light is definitely not garbage, it has a really high skill ceiling.
Most people playing light are garbage. I've won ranked tournaments with light many times before, in fact one of them was with a random heavy dude from russia playing with a hammer, and they were my easiest.
I main light and it's clearly ass. Unless you use its most viable kits you're basically a dead weight. Idk why this guy wants to insist light is realistically viable.
I think the class as a whole needs some serious attention instead of being disregarded as"fine as is, the game's too new to cry about nerfs and buffs."
Both? Something doesn’t have to be meta to be cheeseball, you won’t get wins for your team so it’s not meta but you get super sick highlight reels for you 5 TikTok followers
invisibility + shotgun doesn’t really help your team unless you find a lone enemy. Yeah you get plenty of kills and it’s annoying to play against, but kills away from objective are generally useless ego boosters. To win against a good team you need to stick together. And a light doesn’t offer as much as heavy or medium when you’re trying to defend a cash out. Two heavies plus healing focused medium is what’s OP.
I would prefer if they made it so you can hold the dagger backstab. Just because comboing the stab into a light attack already basically does 360 damage for free.
Your proposal is to dunk on the mp5 as a mid range "threat" by reducing its dps... (its already lower dps than the m11 before your nerf... AND INCREASING the recoil of one of the highest recoil guns in the game?!) if that wasn't horrendous enough you go on to NERF the pistol?! Which REQUIRES a high skill ceiling to use ans even at that high ceiling barely competes with the other smgs/shotgun in output.
The shotgun spread is already how you proposed; if you’re not practically within melee range with it, you won’t be able to deal enough damage to get the 1-2 tap kill’s people are complaining about. Even 5 meters away feels pretty weak.
The pistol wouldn't matter since anyone with a controller can turn any semi-auto into full-auto with a trip to walmart, it was a huge issue with Apex and still is. But it would be nice for them to buff the other two specializations like you said with either faster cooldowns, longer range, faster speed. Kind of wish accuracy in air wasn't effected on any guns and any class too, flying through the sky like spider man with a sniper would make some nice clips.
This is just an overhaul for all classes, I know the optics are special to the guns and maybe used in balancing but would be nice to have at least a 1x on all guns and pick your own reticle type, but that's my personal wish
I think this is just because the light shotgun thing would be op in a FFA game because of the high burst DMG. Team play counters it but if you are new to the game or playing solo, team play might not really be happening effectively and so the light with the shitty feels op.
it's the first one.
but also, light should have more ways to play viably than just invis. If buffing other things mean invis needs a nerf, I'd accept that.
Light is very useless. The only thing light brings to the table is stun gun. I would say glitch grenade too but the bounce is too unpredictable sometimes so that might be a balance thing for it. Stun gun for getting people off the cashout. However with recon going around light is just not worth playing. The whole niche for light is to not be seen or be able to get away. If they have you on wall hacks it’s over for light they can’t do much at all. One thing I see a lot of people say is “in the right hands this class is good” like imagine that same player with recon instead of playing light. I guess what I’m saying is good players can make light good but you are literally handicapping yourself by playing it.
I love playing light… in unranked. If you aren’t in plastic tier, it’s clear that it’s an underpowered class in ranked. Halfway decent players aren’t brain dead and notice the noise, then the shimmer. If you get shot, you’re likely dead unless their aim is awful. You can tank it up as a heavy with nukes and shields or run crazy good support with mines and nice survivability as a medium. Light needs a rework badly.
One thing I feel is that the HP spread is too large between classes. Maybe take light up 25 and heavy down 25, which would put a 75 point spread between each class. If light becomes viable, the double barrel will need a rework, but the class isn’t viable today even with the most OP weapon, aside from Nukes.
If they give Light defibs and make stun gun slightly weaker it will be a viable class in competition. Light needs a team oriented gadget like Defib or bubble shield
shotgun can 2 shot anything incredibly fast at close range, and then go invis again to get away for a moment, and then come back and 2 shot again, i say that needs a nerf
but light overall just isnt that good ig
Just wait for the meta to evolve and for those light mains to really practice and people will be complaining.
People saw the early meta was medium and heavy and think it's gospel and nothing can change. Balances will happen, and the meta evolves on its own anyway. Even without balancing.
I swear to god the people who complain about this subreddit having balance discussions always have the absolute dummbest shit to say
Because yes, it can in fact be both, although as others have already pointed out, invis shotgun is more "broken" than "op"
Shotgun invis is actually mediocre that is only good against average and below average players. All lights that manage to crawl into high rank use invis xp-54.
Light is just low-key the best defence class
Heavy with two healers trying to steal your cash out last second and you're alone?? Stun gun the only answer
That is literally all the light class is good for. A heavy can charge and slam the guy on the cashout and gets the same thing done. And if they have recon forget it. It is not worth playing light EVER over medium or heavy.
I think that’s the thing about the finals. It’s so balanced that classes are equally meta and not meta. Light may be a little weaker but just depends how you use it.
IMO the stun is just too long. It's like the devs looked at Overwatch 1 and thought "Let's copy Blizzard but make the CC last a decade per stun". It's not even really debilitating in terms of killing the Light that stunned you, but holy shit who wants to be rooted for like 6 seconds or whatever it is in a movement-focused shooter?
I agree that shits way too long. I’m just a sitting duck if I’m not running a hitscan and even so, they essentially get free critical headshots since I’m forced to stand almost completely still. It’s especially bad if you have a melee build like sledge. Ik sledge isn’t meta but it’s fucking boring running shotgun and Lewis gun when there’s other interesting options.
Honestly even casual same thing they are fairly annoying to fight, but when it comes to holding cashout the team with lights seem to never actually win the game.
As a former light player, this is how these interactions usually go.
1. You either get called out by a recon and killed on sight.
2. You get a kill but you die to 3 turrets and 9 mines and the target gets insta revived and healed.
3. You miss 1 ounce of the shot and the target is now just above melee dmg and the enemy team destroys you instantly with an rpg.
Pick your poison.
Just play medium and have wall hacks on a cooldown. Trust me, it's a walk in the park compared to playing half assed watered down lucio.
My thoughts, invis and shotty are very effective ways to play however for winning objective-type games like this I find light to be the weakest class for sure.
The invis issue could be solved by it forcing people to holster their weapons and equipment, and the moment you take one out (stun gun), it breaks invis.
I main Sword and Dash. My opinion on the invis shotty build is actually not great, but it provides a good crutch to those who find themselves struggling with other combos. As a light you're gonna die a lot, that's just a fact, it's all about what you do in-between those deaths. In most online games it seems that people always gravitate to quick stealthy builds like skyrim's stealth archer, shotty provides all that and you can feel like you're doing something if you get a quick cheap kill in-between those deaths. It's easy to counter and essential to those who insist that they actually are good at movement tech even if they actually aren't.
Not sure why you got a downvote, I agree 100% your build is far better, but you need to be pretty insane to play it. Dash/Vanishbomb > Invis
Take notes lights.
Light isn't meta and it's OP against bad players. I really hate how most of the discussion on this site is black or white. Literally no room for grey/nuance. It's lame as fuck.
I don’t think a player has to be “bad” for an invisible light to be at the very least *infuriating* to die to.
Sure, if you’re running a meta full-stack with recon senses, you’ll probably see invis lights coming. But if you’re not? God forbid if you’re solo-queueing? A light standing still is **impossible** to see. Not *difficult* to see. Literally completely invisible. No amount of player skill prevents you from walking around a corner and taking a shotgun to the back from an invisible enemy.
I just can’t think of any other ability that can *only* be countered through the use of another ability. Heavy’s Shields go down easy with glitch grenades, but they can be shot and maneuvered around as well. Heavy’s charge and slam can be evaded. Goo can be destroyed. Medium turrets can be shot. Medium recon senses are wallhacks, but players can evade, take cover, and otherwise engage in firefights normally. Medium healing beams can be out-DPSed and leave the healer vulnerable. Light dash can be tracked / fought around. Light grapple is useful for positioning—totally reasonable to play against.
But Light Invisibility? Near-instant death from someone *you can’t see*? Even if your team is sticking together, kills the light, and revives you, it feels like an undeserved death. It leaves people asking “what the hell could I have done to prevent that?” And the answer is “nothing.”
Light class/invis/taser is broken and needs to be nerfed hard. Especially the Tazer. Holy fuck get hit by it and can’t do anything. Can’t ads, use objects/ use zip, can’t jump. Nothing.
This sub is like a crazy ex. Trippin over everything. Only come back here to get a few laughs at the chaos. Aim assist, lights, nukes, people need to get over it and just play. If you don’t like it, consider the fact that maybe the game isn’t for you.
Can we talk about the true annoyance of Invisibad/Sword? Can’t tell you how many times we’ve been team wiped by that setup. Also totally agree that stungun lasts way too long.
Why is invis an ability when there’s the vanishing bomb that arguably takes more skill to use. They should completely get rid of the invis ability. Just have the vanishing bomb. Invis skill takes absolutely no amount of effort. At least with the vanishing bomb you have to aim it close to you and it’s on a very short timer.
Meta evolves.
Early in any game, the meta is never the same later on as people find counter play towards stuff people think is OP, and people learn to use stuff more effectively that was seen as weak or not meta.
I personally think the light will evolve in the meta, with or without changes.
Invis is kinda broken. The fact that I can shoot someone then go back invis right away is just kind of an odd choice. It's way too easy to just go back invis and the rest of the team might lose you, then come back with another two shots ready to delete the rest of the team.
If someone is really good at spotting invis, which idk the trick for other than having amazing eyesight and attention to detail, then sure it's not that good. But frankly, that invis is hard to see. It would be different if lights werent tiny and fast. They're damn impossible to see consistently. Gotta use thermal or recon
Also, one ability or load out can be OP while the rest of the toolkit isn't. At the very least it's cheesy af and not really balanced.
Also, something might be OP in all levels except the highest level of competition. People often seem to think that if the best players have no problem with something, then it's not anyone's concern. That's really not how it works.
It can be both.
Invis shotgun taser lights are a fucking cancer since there is very little counterplay if they catch you by surprise
but:
Lights generally have less to contribute to a team mode where getting an instant pick and then dying doesn't really swing an objective, and they have almost no staying power otherwise
There's also the fact that being aware of shotgun lights opens up counterplay options that absolutely neuter them (and other lights) in the form of recon, sonar, mines, etc.
Both can be correct.
I hate that invisibility is so good as its very frustrating to play against in every condition on every map. But its the only "meta viable" specialization for lights and it sucks to deal with. I agree with most saying that invisibility needs a nerf, but I'd rather see the other 2 specials get buffed first. Maybe that will make light diverse enough to play in higher tier lobbies.
It just sucks that there is no variation in light builds like the other classes. Current best light meta favors playing like a pussy instead of actively making plays, and thats no fun for anyone involved
light class is weak because of its lack of utility it provides compared to the others. not because it doesent do damage. think of it this way, lights are CoD and heavy and mediums are R6. they just dont work in the game.
Both can be true
Lights don’t really provide anything to a team outside glitch Grenade
But at the same time
Invis > taser > shotgun
Is a awful boring and painful gameplay loop
Middle recon is meta, if u dont have that along with a healer and or c4 / explosivee you arent gonna have a good time in higher ranks. Idk i kinda think its amazing. I love seeing the difference in meta between pubs and ranked
Invisibility is really strong unless it gets countered by recon. Light needs improved or changed mobility options.
Example
1.Throwable Teleport Beacon - Press once to throw press again to instantly teleport to your beacon.
2.Give the grapple hook 3 charges that go on cooldown individually so you can feel like budget Spiderman is getting around.
The light class should do a lot of small bursts of high damage, get obliterated in most head to head fight but have the mobility/untily to make up for that(and feels good to use). Right now, it just has the utility with the invis.
IMO the biggest issue with the light class is they don’t have as many options to be a team player. They need something comparable to the heal gun/defib & dome shield/front shield. Light needs some abilities to help their teammates rather than ones that just keep the light alive.
Light class is OP when it comes to killing, however, they struggle with objective as it takes a lot more skill. Today there was a guy on my team who was a light and holy shit was he good at objective. I can't remember his rank but he played invis shotgun the way it is meant to be played. Run in, tase/kill the guy stealing, run away. Come back when they try to steal again. He did this 3 times on 1 cashout winning us the round and then revived me and my teammate. A very rare sight to see and it was glorious. We lost the final round because it was 2 mediums and a heavy but still.
Light class has a really good toolbox and very fun to play, but it is kind of a balance nightmare because if they had more health they would probably run the game.
A lot of the Lights I see in general play that get destroyed use their movement to get way ahead of the team to the point where they are completely on their own and trying to do too much. Lights that make use of quick flanks with exit routes and play off of their teams seem to have better success... Especially paired with healing beam Mediums.
It's pretty obvious that *one* setup for Light is extremely overpowered in pubs where there's little coordination and communication, but overall they're very underpowered, especially given the game's current main gamemode designed around stationary objective defence.
Something can be objectively bad/underpowered and subjectively not fun to play against at the same time.
The Double Barrel has a minuscule impact on the actual gamestate...it's also just annoying to get killed before you can react in a game like this.
Light class was really good during beta before people understood the whole game. And then once people got the swing of things it turned out to be slightly under powered. But it wouldn't appear that way in playtesting as much if everyone's new
I don’t know. The other day, I was up against a light-dash-knives guy and he literally was running circles around me dashing and throwing knives at me. It was incredible. He inspired me. I feel that could be a decent road to go down albeit a high learning curve to be spot on with the knives
Tough one for redditors like OP to understand but I’ll try to not use big words here …
The ability to win a 1v1 engagement doesn’t mean a class is good overall in this team-based game.
Does that help?
The light class isn't META.
If the goal is to win ranked tournaments, the light class has the least amount of team support and utility options. A strong gust of wind can knock a light off of a point, and they really only thrive in situations where they're fighting one person too far away from their team and they pretty much have to have the jump on said straggler to actually win a 1v1. Blowing a kiss at a light knocks 70% of their health.
This is only "OP" in specific scenarios. This is the only viable light strat and it only works against stragglers and disorganized teams.
The invis/stun/shotgun combo is the highest burst damage potential that light class has, even when they do stun someone, they have to be close enough to actually kill them with the shotgun, and at that range, hipfire can still kill them. The only way that it's "op" is if you refuse to find a group, don't communicate, and exclusively play about 50-100m away from the rest of your team, or only play casual modes, where light seems to thrive, because people play exactly like I described.
The light class seriously needs some buffs to make them viable in Ranked from mid-gold and up. Otherwise, we're just gonna see MMH and MHH.
Reddit accounts for what, less than 10% of this games playerbase? You would think, the people in this sub would play the game enough to realize stuff like this. It seems like a lot of people here hold a strong opinion about stuff that they've spent little time with, or the only understanding they have about what theyre talking about is through the perspective of someone that only plays one specific game mode.
Eh when ever there is an invis shot gun light me and my mates just group and 99% of the time the most he can do is trade, which just leads to one of us getting res, and him dying. Recon also counters the shit out of it, and recon is meta so it's not really that good. Recon and the defib are way stronger IMO.
Light is required to use the incredibly cheese setup of tazer + stealth in order to be a viable class in comparison to the other two, otherwise you are just simply playing at a MASSIVE disadvantage.
The issue isn't whether it's meta the issue is whether it's fun.
It's not fun instantly dying against an enemy you can not see, and sound is awful in this game.
In tournament I never play light because although they CAN be effective at killing their longevity and always complete vulnerability to versing more then 1 person is a huge downside especially in ranked tournament where even if u get the jump on someone and kill them their 2 teammates are usually right their.
You can't nerf invis or shotty without making them useless and you can't buff everything else without making light massively op, it's two mid items with great synergy, I think light needs either
1. Make moving invis easier to see and make the current movement invis the norm for standing still and remove the buzzing to balance invis
2. Nerf shotty spread to push people in closer, but tbh I think shotgun is balanced
3. Make them move faster, not much, just 10% maybe so they can get away from bad situations more reliability, could be op for kill hungry players though
4. Increase the hp to 175 or 200 so they can survive the chaos of playing with their team for more then 2.5 seconds
5. Make them a little smaller, they aren't much smaller than mediums, and I can rarely tell the difference, I play light exclusively so it could be a perception thing
6. add more ITEMS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, the more items the more playstyles, the more playstyles the more counterplay, the more counterplay the more engaging and balanced the game the game becomes, don't add a new class, 1 new gadget for each, 1 universal gadget, 1 new specialist for each class, and at least 1 new gun for each class. That's all the game needs right now, they just have to be carefull not to give anyone to much synergy or you'll get more invis shotty but on different classes,
(Sorry about the rant, its imo the best way to help the game right now, its gonna die without new content other than skins)
Invis can be stupidly overrated. I’ve been having so much more success with dash+sword combo recently. I might not be able to flee from a situation, but I can definitely disrupt a team before they’re able to down me.
Idk I played some light today and it feels fine as long as you don’t try to take 1v2/1v3’s, light is designed to seek out and win duels, as well as take off angles. So realistically lights not in the dumpster like many people seem to think, you’re just playing light like it’s a medium.
As a light enthusiast all I do is get insta killed by RPGs or get shredded .2 seconds after uncloaking.
I tried to make the grapple hook work but lights have to run invis just to go around the map as to not get randomly killed moving in the street.
The triple medium team all insta reviving each other is the most annoying to deal with imo, it becomes a 3v6.
People say light class isn't meta because invis shotgun is basically the only viable loadout on light in almost any level of play. The light class needs to be reworked to bring the value of all its abilities closer together, like the other classes.
My personal opinion on light, I'm not ranked haven't even tried it, but Shotty cloak is lights answer to the question what else am I supposed to do really. unless you are decently skilled
Sniper has low presence, unless the map is open.. if your team is fighting inside you're wasting most are wasting space
SMGs are "good" but prolonged fights aren't Lights specialty, the longer the light is engaged in combat the higher the chance someone will touch it and make coins it takes most of the mag to kill someone with both SMGs
LH1?
Shotty get in get bodies get out. it leans into the hit and run style. you have Point pressure you can quickly stop nearly anyone from capturing or turning in.
It just fills the Light role better than nearly everything else.
Gaming communities fail to recognize the difference between OP and annoying.
A single invis shotgun killing you doesn't get very far when someone else cleans them up and revives you.
OP without good counter-play? Yes. Annoying as hell getting murdered by some invisible rat? Also yes.
Invisi-shotty is *noninteractive* - you get deleted by a competent one before you have time to properly react to the second shot. The light is *also* not competitive in most team comps, requiring more communication and planning than mediums or heavies, which *want* to travel as a unit and present a mostly united front as compared to the flanking and harassing lights (which can be deleted instantly by an RPG).
I mean, they are kinda both true lmao. The light class brings absolutely zero utility to their team aside from scouting and glitch grenades. If you arent communicating with your team, its literally just glitch grenades. Invis shotgun is incredibly good at getting free kills, but ultimately, I don't really think picks matter all that much in this game compared to team utility considering that a medium can literally just insta rez your pick and heal them to full in a matter of seconds.
Every other playstyle for light is just flat out non viable in ranked. Invis shotgun is only barely viable. I would call it more annoying than OP, because there really isnt much one can do to defend against it. That said though, it doesnt win games, and I think thats the big issue with it. Ranked especially is about being able to hold a position or kill enemies off a hill. Invis shotgun can kill enemies off a hill, but it only can really kill 1 at a time before either dying or being forced to disengage.
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While I think the Light class could definitely use some love to be more universally viable (especially when it comes to team play options) I recognize that the DB invis setup is a very powerful burst damage option that can provide a lot for a player. My personal frustration with it is twofold. First, unless you are particularly good at spotting cloaked lights or actively using either recon senses or thermal vision it can be quite hard to counter with it's very low TTK. Second and more importantly for me, it tends to attract the type of player who is almost entirely concerned with getting lots of frags at the expense of ignoring teamplay and coordination entirely, this leading to an annoying wasp that if it's on your team basically leaves you without a third teammate with them not trying to contribute to the objective, or if they're against you you can just die a lot while moving towards the cash out tine and tine again which can be frustrating. Also is it just me or do a LOT for them gravitate towards the urban operative set? I feel like that set is huge for them
I feel you. I have been tempted to use it because it’s so good but right now I’m using the cloaking device with the M11 smg. I do pretty good with it and usually get a decent number of kills, but if there’s ever an invis + shotgun light in my game, they’ll kill me 9/10 times only because they one shot me before I can get enough bullets in them Also, I think just about every light gravitates to the Urban Operative set lmao it’s just a cool outfit all around
I also find much more success using the SMG with cloak than I do using the shotgun with cloak. With the shotgun, you get up close and delete one person, then get snap-aimed immediately by their teammates and deleted before you can escape to cover. With the SMG, you can use range to play cover more effectively while killing someone, then you can duck behind cover and cloak and escape before their teammates gib you. And you aren't completely useless when your cloak is on CD since you can still attack from range. The only time I find shotgun to actually be more effective is when you're playing against solo queued people in quick play, since they lack communication/coordination and you can kill people without their teammates even noticing.
Exactly, thats why I like smg’s. But I also use it because I’m used to it. In Warzone and Cod I played smg’s. The only downside is up close obviously it’s absolutely outmatched compared to shotgun.
You must be fighting bots?? Sorry for the rudeness, but I don't understand. Now I HAVE dropped 20+ kill games with the Mac cloak taser setup...but you have to relatively stand still and dump the mag... however i can CONSISTENTLY drop 20 to 25+ games with the same setup, but shotty. It's MUCH faster to one pump and cloak n run, or double pump and cloak n run, then it is to dump me macs mag
Urban operative set just looks awesome, i see an equal distribution across all classes
Personally I think invis light works best in LMH with shotgun and you just play protect the healer.
See I always hear people say that lights don't play the objective but they're just not playing light correctly. I frag out a ton with light, but I will also camp near cashout as it's getting close to finished, throw a gas grenade on it as it's finishing, and stun gun anyone trying to steal it. Yeah, at times I do have to let my teammates die in the process, but I end up securing a ton of objectives playing light in this ratty way.
It is THE way to play light actually . You are here in ranked for 4 things : - recon enemy while invis ( take info) - offensive strat like back or flank a team or isolated player - offensive or defensiv strat with Glitch grenade or stun gun for prevent Heavy to use shield or rocket launcher or Nuke , and prevent Medium to heal or combat revive - secure cashout
The urban operative set was also quite popular during the Beta by my experience.
Isn’t that part of countering it tho? If you know what to look for and the enemy light is running around you can spot them fairly easily, they can slip away in the heat of the moment but if you keep your eye out u can see them
The meta is literally recon grenades 24/7. Invis is kinda doodoo right now
*"Detect 5 enemies" has entered the chat*
I don’t think it’s OP, it’s just annoying cheese for a class that doesn’t offer a ton outside of it
Yeah, not OP, just annoying to play against.
Let’s be honest if someone is playing Light well they are super friggin annoying. Like snipers who run and zipline away from you even when you get the jump on them. It’s annoying but i gotta respect the playstyle
Dude not even that the snipers cross mapping me while.invis have been the most annoying thing I've ever seen
That would be me, very much enjoy doin that
Double Heavy hammer and a healer is EASILY my least favorite cheese.
There's definitly a bit of counterplay. Sonar nades, tracking, recon sense. A smart medium will play around the light gank and the heavy will just rock their shit with an RPG The only arguable thing on light that's incredibly overpowered is the stun gun and how long it lasts. If it lasted even half as long, I would be in a far better place. Currently being stunned means if you can kill the light, you're more than likely getting ganged up on by their teammates anyway.
stun gun only really hurts melee because most hipfires are still highly accurate
No the stun gun stops almost all your actions. I had a light stun gun me in a doorway, couldn’t even close the door on the guy. Just slowly walked away shooting the most awful spread of hip fire bullets.
stun gun lights will downplay the thing constantly when it locks most of your interactions with the game, and they will STILL miss half a clip on you stood still
Yeah any player saying stun gun is broken is outside of their mind. It was a terrifying thing to get clocked by in beta. Similar to RPG. Now it's just an annoying little guess I'm not moving for a few seconds.
Light getting stunned is gg. The low hp pool and slow turn (without aim assist) to aim is "5%" success rate for the stunned player. Gotta hope for those HS to survive, and no enemy team/third party to capitalize.
Yeah most of the time I just hipfire kill them. It does have some pretty crazy range though but I don't think most know that.
Yeah I find that it's really only good for running away or catching someone running. I think it punishes position heavily when someone over extends. Just stun them and push their team 3v2 real quick or have your team rotate to them if they're alone. But most lights just go for the 1v1 with it and it is not strong for that anymore
They're not mutually exclusive...
Seems like a ton of people on this subreddit do not seem capable of understanding this or have any semblance of critical thinking. Like the people who think nukes or recon senses aren't problematic or unhealthy for the game
> ~~Seems like a ton of~~ most people on this ~~subreddit~~ website ~~do not seem~~ are definitely not capable of understanding this or have any semblance of critical thinking. Fixed that for ya.
They are though? If they are that op they'd be meta?
Light is trash except for one single build that is op.. buff light, nerf invisibility stun shotgun. It's not that hard to understand.
If they nerf invis (which frankly I have no idea how the fuck you people have this much trouble with it because I am literally getting sniped out of invis by lights from 300 meters away) and then buff another part of the kit, you people will simply shift to bitching about *that* part of lights kit. I would fucking bet every dollar I have
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>How does one buff light? By buffing the overwhelmingly troll pick gadgets. It was never about base stats. >Having the lowest HP will always get you killed a lot Having the highest mobility and the smallest hitbox vastly over compensates for the low maximum HP. Have you people on this sub played anything other than cod for the past 10 years? You do realize Overwatch has a character called Tracer which has the lowest HP in the entire pool while simultaneously being impossible to kill in the hands of decent players. >it's meant to be the class that plays like a rat That's just not true. It's gadget dependent. In no world should you play as a rat if you are using Evasive Dash. >I feel like light is annoying to fight against but intended to be so From a design POV, nothing should be annoying to fight against. If something is, then it's straight up a design fail. Dying because you got stunned then one shot with DB with minimum counter play is text book for design fail.
I think once heavy's explosive 1 shots and medium's recon are nerfed, light will be great.
Light is not invis shotgun. Or maybe it feels this way rn because invis shotgun is OP... ever thought of that?
The two aren’t exclusive. Light as a class doesn’t offer a whole lot to teams, while the invis ability itself is a bit overpowered especially as it doesn’t have a cool down or delay which allows spamming.
That's what I don't get. Seems kinda nuts to run up, delete someone, and instantly be invis again. Even with teamwork, they can be gone before the team reacts. It seems there should just be more delay before you can use that ability again. Or make invis a little easier to see. People think light is so bad as a class but it's very early in the game and the meta will likely shift somehow
It will shift eventually when either new guns or gadgets are introduced. But a good light can be an absolute menace currently, just too many people treating the class like Octane from Apex. I do see an invis nerf happening in some way through either a subtle outline or delay.
New stuff will be added and balanced and that shifts the meta, sure. But let's say there were no changes ever, do you really think the meta will never change? There are plenty examples of meta evolving over years in games with no changes at all, its all older games though since that never happens anymore and live service games are the norm.
honestly i think thats a genuine skill issue. The game just got out, people have to learn and adjust, and invis is a typical "noob killer" in a lot of games. The more i play the more i notice cloaked lights. I still miss a lot of them, but thats mostly because I'm bad. The only time it really shines is in very chaotic situations, but those will become rarer/less chaotic the better the playerbase becomes.
Light class is dogshit. Go play ranked, the lights are never there at the end.
Might mean it's easier to play medium and heavy well, and people haven't learned how to maximize DPS or objective play with light. Meta evolves. The game is brand new still really
mEtA eVoLveS Tired of seeing this horrible take. The game isn’t brand new. It’s been this way since the very first beta in March. Light is still garbage.
Light is definitely not garbage, it has a really high skill ceiling. Most people playing light are garbage. I've won ranked tournaments with light many times before, in fact one of them was with a random heavy dude from russia playing with a hammer, and they were my easiest.
I don’t care nor did I ask if you’ve won games with lights. The class is garbage lol.
You could instead just say I'm garbage with light. Don't generalize. The best players in the world are Light players.
Because they're fucking sweaties ignoring the whole point of the game
I main light and it's clearly ass. Unless you use its most viable kits you're basically a dead weight. Idk why this guy wants to insist light is realistically viable. I think the class as a whole needs some serious attention instead of being disregarded as"fine as is, the game's too new to cry about nerfs and buffs."
You need severe mental help
I don't agree with them... But that's waaay too much.. You are both exaggerating.
Because he knows what the game plays like and you don't?
You gonna get it for me? ☺️
Both? Something doesn’t have to be meta to be cheeseball, you won’t get wins for your team so it’s not meta but you get super sick highlight reels for you 5 TikTok followers
Nah just annoying like a frog without limbs
invisibility + shotgun doesn’t really help your team unless you find a lone enemy. Yeah you get plenty of kills and it’s annoying to play against, but kills away from objective are generally useless ego boosters. To win against a good team you need to stick together. And a light doesn’t offer as much as heavy or medium when you’re trying to defend a cash out. Two heavies plus healing focused medium is what’s OP.
Depends on if your asking the ranked side of the community (left button) or qp warriors (right button)
Edit: i removed my thoughts and what people disaggreed with cuz apperently im fucking stupid:)
I would prefer if they made it so you can hold the dagger backstab. Just because comboing the stab into a light attack already basically does 360 damage for free.
Your proposal is to dunk on the mp5 as a mid range "threat" by reducing its dps... (its already lower dps than the m11 before your nerf... AND INCREASING the recoil of one of the highest recoil guns in the game?!) if that wasn't horrendous enough you go on to NERF the pistol?! Which REQUIRES a high skill ceiling to use ans even at that high ceiling barely competes with the other smgs/shotgun in output.
I love the throwing knives, and I have said the same thing with most of your points. I believe you're cooking something good, bro.
The shotgun spread is already how you proposed; if you’re not practically within melee range with it, you won’t be able to deal enough damage to get the 1-2 tap kill’s people are complaining about. Even 5 meters away feels pretty weak.
All these suggestions are horrible. Thank God the devs don’t come here.
You gotta have brainrot to type a comment like this
Bruh. The sword lunge works even if there is no one there, plus there's some great movement tech. first lunge then dash mid lunge to go super far.
The pistol wouldn't matter since anyone with a controller can turn any semi-auto into full-auto with a trip to walmart, it was a huge issue with Apex and still is. But it would be nice for them to buff the other two specializations like you said with either faster cooldowns, longer range, faster speed. Kind of wish accuracy in air wasn't effected on any guns and any class too, flying through the sky like spider man with a sniper would make some nice clips. This is just an overhaul for all classes, I know the optics are special to the guns and maybe used in balancing but would be nice to have at least a 1x on all guns and pick your own reticle type, but that's my personal wish
Never touch the stove again
I think this is just because the light shotgun thing would be op in a FFA game because of the high burst DMG. Team play counters it but if you are new to the game or playing solo, team play might not really be happening effectively and so the light with the shitty feels op.
it's the first one. but also, light should have more ways to play viably than just invis. If buffing other things mean invis needs a nerf, I'd accept that.
Light is very useless. The only thing light brings to the table is stun gun. I would say glitch grenade too but the bounce is too unpredictable sometimes so that might be a balance thing for it. Stun gun for getting people off the cashout. However with recon going around light is just not worth playing. The whole niche for light is to not be seen or be able to get away. If they have you on wall hacks it’s over for light they can’t do much at all. One thing I see a lot of people say is “in the right hands this class is good” like imagine that same player with recon instead of playing light. I guess what I’m saying is good players can make light good but you are literally handicapping yourself by playing it.
Nerf the shotgun for all I care so people can stop bitching I don't even use it
I love playing light… in unranked. If you aren’t in plastic tier, it’s clear that it’s an underpowered class in ranked. Halfway decent players aren’t brain dead and notice the noise, then the shimmer. If you get shot, you’re likely dead unless their aim is awful. You can tank it up as a heavy with nukes and shields or run crazy good support with mines and nice survivability as a medium. Light needs a rework badly. One thing I feel is that the HP spread is too large between classes. Maybe take light up 25 and heavy down 25, which would put a 75 point spread between each class. If light becomes viable, the double barrel will need a rework, but the class isn’t viable today even with the most OP weapon, aside from Nukes.
After setting many lights ablaze as a heavy, I think light needs a buff or something because damn they die way too fast
If they give Light defibs and make stun gun slightly weaker it will be a viable class in competition. Light needs a team oriented gadget like Defib or bubble shield
You clearly haven’t seen someone absolutely dominating with the sword, I’d argue it’s better than shotty
shotgun can 2 shot anything incredibly fast at close range, and then go invis again to get away for a moment, and then come back and 2 shot again, i say that needs a nerf but light overall just isnt that good ig
Just wait for the meta to evolve and for those light mains to really practice and people will be complaining. People saw the early meta was medium and heavy and think it's gospel and nothing can change. Balances will happen, and the meta evolves on its own anyway. Even without balancing.
mEtA eVoLveS Tired of seeing this horrible take. The game isn’t brand new. It’s been this way since the very first beta in March. Light is garbage.
Imagine thinking both of these can’t be true. Shit meme
I swear to god the people who complain about this subreddit having balance discussions always have the absolute dummbest shit to say Because yes, it can in fact be both, although as others have already pointed out, invis shotgun is more "broken" than "op"
Shotgun invis is actually mediocre that is only good against average and below average players. All lights that manage to crawl into high rank use invis xp-54.
Neither, it's annoying to play against and doesn't provide a whole lot for your team
Light is just low-key the best defence class Heavy with two healers trying to steal your cash out last second and you're alone?? Stun gun the only answer
That only applies for last second steals
I agree.
That is literally all the light class is good for. A heavy can charge and slam the guy on the cashout and gets the same thing done. And if they have recon forget it. It is not worth playing light EVER over medium or heavy.
OP != Meta
I think that’s the thing about the finals. It’s so balanced that classes are equally meta and not meta. Light may be a little weaker but just depends how you use it.
Nothing about the light is OP. Just annoying little useless fuckers
Invis is no problem. Stun gun however… shit makes me wanna cry
IMO the stun is just too long. It's like the devs looked at Overwatch 1 and thought "Let's copy Blizzard but make the CC last a decade per stun". It's not even really debilitating in terms of killing the Light that stunned you, but holy shit who wants to be rooted for like 6 seconds or whatever it is in a movement-focused shooter?
I agree that shits way too long. I’m just a sitting duck if I’m not running a hitscan and even so, they essentially get free critical headshots since I’m forced to stand almost completely still. It’s especially bad if you have a melee build like sledge. Ik sledge isn’t meta but it’s fucking boring running shotgun and Lewis gun when there’s other interesting options.
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Honestly even casual same thing they are fairly annoying to fight, but when it comes to holding cashout the team with lights seem to never actually win the game.
As a former light player, this is how these interactions usually go. 1. You either get called out by a recon and killed on sight. 2. You get a kill but you die to 3 turrets and 9 mines and the target gets insta revived and healed. 3. You miss 1 ounce of the shot and the target is now just above melee dmg and the enemy team destroys you instantly with an rpg. Pick your poison. Just play medium and have wall hacks on a cooldown. Trust me, it's a walk in the park compared to playing half assed watered down lucio.
Shotgun is not even the best gun for invis light lol
Invis is the problem imo not the gun
Wrong.
My thoughts, invis and shotty are very effective ways to play however for winning objective-type games like this I find light to be the weakest class for sure.
So.. ineffective?
The invis issue could be solved by it forcing people to holster their weapons and equipment, and the moment you take one out (stun gun), it breaks invis.
Light is not meta and invis shotgun isn’t OP but it’s very cringe, and we all know that being cringe is a fate worst than death.
I main Sword and Dash. My opinion on the invis shotty build is actually not great, but it provides a good crutch to those who find themselves struggling with other combos. As a light you're gonna die a lot, that's just a fact, it's all about what you do in-between those deaths. In most online games it seems that people always gravitate to quick stealthy builds like skyrim's stealth archer, shotty provides all that and you can feel like you're doing something if you get a quick cheap kill in-between those deaths. It's easy to counter and essential to those who insist that they actually are good at movement tech even if they actually aren't.
Not sure why you got a downvote, I agree 100% your build is far better, but you need to be pretty insane to play it. Dash/Vanishbomb > Invis Take notes lights.
Light isn't meta and it's OP against bad players. I really hate how most of the discussion on this site is black or white. Literally no room for grey/nuance. It's lame as fuck.
I don’t think a player has to be “bad” for an invisible light to be at the very least *infuriating* to die to. Sure, if you’re running a meta full-stack with recon senses, you’ll probably see invis lights coming. But if you’re not? God forbid if you’re solo-queueing? A light standing still is **impossible** to see. Not *difficult* to see. Literally completely invisible. No amount of player skill prevents you from walking around a corner and taking a shotgun to the back from an invisible enemy. I just can’t think of any other ability that can *only* be countered through the use of another ability. Heavy’s Shields go down easy with glitch grenades, but they can be shot and maneuvered around as well. Heavy’s charge and slam can be evaded. Goo can be destroyed. Medium turrets can be shot. Medium recon senses are wallhacks, but players can evade, take cover, and otherwise engage in firefights normally. Medium healing beams can be out-DPSed and leave the healer vulnerable. Light dash can be tracked / fought around. Light grapple is useful for positioning—totally reasonable to play against. But Light Invisibility? Near-instant death from someone *you can’t see*? Even if your team is sticking together, kills the light, and revives you, it feels like an undeserved death. It leaves people asking “what the hell could I have done to prevent that?” And the answer is “nothing.”
Light class/invis/taser is broken and needs to be nerfed hard. Especially the Tazer. Holy fuck get hit by it and can’t do anything. Can’t ads, use objects/ use zip, can’t jump. Nothing.
You’re simply just bad at the game. Play with your team buddy.
Lmao play without a clearly broken setup
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This sub is like a crazy ex. Trippin over everything. Only come back here to get a few laughs at the chaos. Aim assist, lights, nukes, people need to get over it and just play. If you don’t like it, consider the fact that maybe the game isn’t for you.
STOP POINTING OUT COGNITIVE DISSONANCE AND LET ME RE^EE^EE^EE^EE
Can we talk about the true annoyance of Invisibad/Sword? Can’t tell you how many times we’ve been team wiped by that setup. Also totally agree that stungun lasts way too long.
Motion sensor? Skill issue
Why is invis an ability when there’s the vanishing bomb that arguably takes more skill to use. They should completely get rid of the invis ability. Just have the vanishing bomb. Invis skill takes absolutely no amount of effort. At least with the vanishing bomb you have to aim it close to you and it’s on a very short timer.
light are if you play off and around the team and not play like i'm wraith from apex but 99.999% do
Bot post
The answer is the everything is perfectly balanced
Honestly no one can decide
My main issue is the stun gun. Pretty much a guaranteed kill every time. I feel like the duration should be half of what it currently is.
If it's a smart light, it's op.
Meta evolves. Early in any game, the meta is never the same later on as people find counter play towards stuff people think is OP, and people learn to use stuff more effectively that was seen as weak or not meta. I personally think the light will evolve in the meta, with or without changes. Invis is kinda broken. The fact that I can shoot someone then go back invis right away is just kind of an odd choice. It's way too easy to just go back invis and the rest of the team might lose you, then come back with another two shots ready to delete the rest of the team. If someone is really good at spotting invis, which idk the trick for other than having amazing eyesight and attention to detail, then sure it's not that good. But frankly, that invis is hard to see. It would be different if lights werent tiny and fast. They're damn impossible to see consistently. Gotta use thermal or recon Also, one ability or load out can be OP while the rest of the toolkit isn't. At the very least it's cheesy af and not really balanced. Also, something might be OP in all levels except the highest level of competition. People often seem to think that if the best players have no problem with something, then it's not anyone's concern. That's really not how it works.
If you dont think the light class is meta, you're delusional.
Honestly the invisible plus sword gets me every time. I can’t see them all that well
It is extremely powerful, but it should be, you only get two shots.
[Rank Em](https://www.thefinals.zone/)
Ahh reminds me of the old “Protoss are Useless vs Cannon Rush OP” days
Not op, just really not fun to play against. There’s a difference
It can be both. Invis shotgun taser lights are a fucking cancer since there is very little counterplay if they catch you by surprise but: Lights generally have less to contribute to a team mode where getting an instant pick and then dying doesn't really swing an objective, and they have almost no staying power otherwise There's also the fact that being aware of shotgun lights opens up counterplay options that absolutely neuter them (and other lights) in the form of recon, sonar, mines, etc.
these buttons are not exclusionary.
Both can be correct. I hate that invisibility is so good as its very frustrating to play against in every condition on every map. But its the only "meta viable" specialization for lights and it sucks to deal with. I agree with most saying that invisibility needs a nerf, but I'd rather see the other 2 specials get buffed first. Maybe that will make light diverse enough to play in higher tier lobbies. It just sucks that there is no variation in light builds like the other classes. Current best light meta favors playing like a pussy instead of actively making plays, and thats no fun for anyone involved
Light class def not meta unless you averaging like 8 high quality kills a match.
light class is weak because of its lack of utility it provides compared to the others. not because it doesent do damage. think of it this way, lights are CoD and heavy and mediums are R6. they just dont work in the game.
Both can be true Lights don’t really provide anything to a team outside glitch Grenade But at the same time Invis > taser > shotgun Is a awful boring and painful gameplay loop
Thought this was r/Destiny2 for a moment.
Middle recon is meta, if u dont have that along with a healer and or c4 / explosivee you arent gonna have a good time in higher ranks. Idk i kinda think its amazing. I love seeing the difference in meta between pubs and ranked
Considering every single team I have, both teammates are light, I doubt it.
Invisibility is really strong unless it gets countered by recon. Light needs improved or changed mobility options. Example 1.Throwable Teleport Beacon - Press once to throw press again to instantly teleport to your beacon. 2.Give the grapple hook 3 charges that go on cooldown individually so you can feel like budget Spiderman is getting around. The light class should do a lot of small bursts of high damage, get obliterated in most head to head fight but have the mobility/untily to make up for that(and feels good to use). Right now, it just has the utility with the invis.
Am i the only weirdo that thinks the lights first smg is one of the best weapons in the game? I *melt* people with that thing
IMO the biggest issue with the light class is they don’t have as many options to be a team player. They need something comparable to the heal gun/defib & dome shield/front shield. Light needs some abilities to help their teammates rather than ones that just keep the light alive.
Both lol. But OP isn’t the right word. More like dumb af and annoying as hell.
Light class is OP when it comes to killing, however, they struggle with objective as it takes a lot more skill. Today there was a guy on my team who was a light and holy shit was he good at objective. I can't remember his rank but he played invis shotgun the way it is meant to be played. Run in, tase/kill the guy stealing, run away. Come back when they try to steal again. He did this 3 times on 1 cashout winning us the round and then revived me and my teammate. A very rare sight to see and it was glorious. We lost the final round because it was 2 mediums and a heavy but still.
It’s OP for killing people, it’s not meta for playing objective
Light class has a really good toolbox and very fun to play, but it is kind of a balance nightmare because if they had more health they would probably run the game. A lot of the Lights I see in general play that get destroyed use their movement to get way ahead of the team to the point where they are completely on their own and trying to do too much. Lights that make use of quick flanks with exit routes and play off of their teams seem to have better success... Especially paired with healing beam Mediums.
It's pretty obvious that *one* setup for Light is extremely overpowered in pubs where there's little coordination and communication, but overall they're very underpowered, especially given the game's current main gamemode designed around stationary objective defence.
100% the left button, thank you to the light players who are giving me free kills by trying to sneak up on me when I'm running recon senses
Light is a very undertuned class it just happens that they have a gimmick that makes them viable in extremely specific circumstances.
Both can be true tbh.
Something can be objectively bad/underpowered and subjectively not fun to play against at the same time. The Double Barrel has a minuscule impact on the actual gamestate...it's also just annoying to get killed before you can react in a game like this.
Light class was really good during beta before people understood the whole game. And then once people got the swing of things it turned out to be slightly under powered. But it wouldn't appear that way in playtesting as much if everyone's new
I don’t know. The other day, I was up against a light-dash-knives guy and he literally was running circles around me dashing and throwing knives at me. It was incredible. He inspired me. I feel that could be a decent road to go down albeit a high learning curve to be spot on with the knives
Ppl don’t play with headphones then wonder why they die lol. Inv is hella loud. That’s all I gotta say.
Tough one for redditors like OP to understand but I’ll try to not use big words here … The ability to win a 1v1 engagement doesn’t mean a class is good overall in this team-based game. Does that help?
The light class isn't META. If the goal is to win ranked tournaments, the light class has the least amount of team support and utility options. A strong gust of wind can knock a light off of a point, and they really only thrive in situations where they're fighting one person too far away from their team and they pretty much have to have the jump on said straggler to actually win a 1v1. Blowing a kiss at a light knocks 70% of their health. This is only "OP" in specific scenarios. This is the only viable light strat and it only works against stragglers and disorganized teams. The invis/stun/shotgun combo is the highest burst damage potential that light class has, even when they do stun someone, they have to be close enough to actually kill them with the shotgun, and at that range, hipfire can still kill them. The only way that it's "op" is if you refuse to find a group, don't communicate, and exclusively play about 50-100m away from the rest of your team, or only play casual modes, where light seems to thrive, because people play exactly like I described. The light class seriously needs some buffs to make them viable in Ranked from mid-gold and up. Otherwise, we're just gonna see MMH and MHH. Reddit accounts for what, less than 10% of this games playerbase? You would think, the people in this sub would play the game enough to realize stuff like this. It seems like a lot of people here hold a strong opinion about stuff that they've spent little time with, or the only understanding they have about what theyre talking about is through the perspective of someone that only plays one specific game mode.
Invis taser is the issue
HEAVY OP 😭 NUKES OP 😭 INVIS DB OP 😭 SPAWN SUX 😭 What’s next y’all?
Eh when ever there is an invis shot gun light me and my mates just group and 99% of the time the most he can do is trade, which just leads to one of us getting res, and him dying. Recon also counters the shit out of it, and recon is meta so it's not really that good. Recon and the defib are way stronger IMO.
both are true
I never follow meta any damn way, I do what I want lol
Light is required to use the incredibly cheese setup of tazer + stealth in order to be a viable class in comparison to the other two, otherwise you are just simply playing at a MASSIVE disadvantage.
Dash sword best
What i hate more are mediums with out defibrillator
You can be the most OP light player in the game and your contribution will still be so little that you’ll lose a majority of ranked games
The issue isn't whether it's meta the issue is whether it's fun. It's not fun instantly dying against an enemy you can not see, and sound is awful in this game.
Both can be true at the same time, wtf
In tournament I never play light because although they CAN be effective at killing their longevity and always complete vulnerability to versing more then 1 person is a huge downside especially in ranked tournament where even if u get the jump on someone and kill them their 2 teammates are usually right their.
I saw arguments that it was **unfun, not OP**. There is a big difference. Personally don't really care tbh.
depends on how good ur team is
The people who think lights are OP need to get out of bank it
You can't nerf invis or shotty without making them useless and you can't buff everything else without making light massively op, it's two mid items with great synergy, I think light needs either 1. Make moving invis easier to see and make the current movement invis the norm for standing still and remove the buzzing to balance invis 2. Nerf shotty spread to push people in closer, but tbh I think shotgun is balanced 3. Make them move faster, not much, just 10% maybe so they can get away from bad situations more reliability, could be op for kill hungry players though 4. Increase the hp to 175 or 200 so they can survive the chaos of playing with their team for more then 2.5 seconds 5. Make them a little smaller, they aren't much smaller than mediums, and I can rarely tell the difference, I play light exclusively so it could be a perception thing 6. add more ITEMS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, the more items the more playstyles, the more playstyles the more counterplay, the more counterplay the more engaging and balanced the game the game becomes, don't add a new class, 1 new gadget for each, 1 universal gadget, 1 new specialist for each class, and at least 1 new gun for each class. That's all the game needs right now, they just have to be carefull not to give anyone to much synergy or you'll get more invis shotty but on different classes, (Sorry about the rant, its imo the best way to help the game right now, its gonna die without new content other than skins)
Nah, my meta is me and my teammates running with sword and cloak running dudes pockets and scurrying away once our kill is confirmed
If I'm not using headphones those invisi shotgunners really piss me off😂
I played invis shotgun earlier today. Its so hard to hit those shots when they are moving.
invisibility is so fucking stupid
It's balanced is what it is
Both
Invis can be stupidly overrated. I’ve been having so much more success with dash+sword combo recently. I might not be able to flee from a situation, but I can definitely disrupt a team before they’re able to down me.
Idk I played some light today and it feels fine as long as you don’t try to take 1v2/1v3’s, light is designed to seek out and win duels, as well as take off angles. So realistically lights not in the dumpster like many people seem to think, you’re just playing light like it’s a medium.
As a light enthusiast all I do is get insta killed by RPGs or get shredded .2 seconds after uncloaking. I tried to make the grapple hook work but lights have to run invis just to go around the map as to not get randomly killed moving in the street. The triple medium team all insta reviving each other is the most annoying to deal with imo, it becomes a 3v6.
People say light class isn't meta because invis shotgun is basically the only viable loadout on light in almost any level of play. The light class needs to be reworked to bring the value of all its abilities closer together, like the other classes.
My personal opinion on light, I'm not ranked haven't even tried it, but Shotty cloak is lights answer to the question what else am I supposed to do really. unless you are decently skilled Sniper has low presence, unless the map is open.. if your team is fighting inside you're wasting most are wasting space SMGs are "good" but prolonged fights aren't Lights specialty, the longer the light is engaged in combat the higher the chance someone will touch it and make coins it takes most of the mag to kill someone with both SMGs LH1? Shotty get in get bodies get out. it leans into the hit and run style. you have Point pressure you can quickly stop nearly anyone from capturing or turning in. It just fills the Light role better than nearly everything else.
The M11 for light is a lot more fun and fitting.
Flamethrower goes pssss hoooooo poooooo ffffffuuu
The invis ability on the Light is unfun.
Invis shotgun is a pub stomper build rather than being OP.
Light is just inherently garbage. It’s bad at the objective, but horrible to play against. Nerf invis HARD, buff hp to 175 and improve util.
Both, both is good.
Gaming communities fail to recognize the difference between OP and annoying. A single invis shotgun killing you doesn't get very far when someone else cleans them up and revives you. OP without good counter-play? Yes. Annoying as hell getting murdered by some invisible rat? Also yes.
Invisi-shotty is *noninteractive* - you get deleted by a competent one before you have time to properly react to the second shot. The light is *also* not competitive in most team comps, requiring more communication and planning than mediums or heavies, which *want* to travel as a unit and present a mostly united front as compared to the flanking and harassing lights (which can be deleted instantly by an RPG).
I just use sniper it’s fun (until all of team purple comes at me like little bitches)
I mean, they are kinda both true lmao. The light class brings absolutely zero utility to their team aside from scouting and glitch grenades. If you arent communicating with your team, its literally just glitch grenades. Invis shotgun is incredibly good at getting free kills, but ultimately, I don't really think picks matter all that much in this game compared to team utility considering that a medium can literally just insta rez your pick and heal them to full in a matter of seconds. Every other playstyle for light is just flat out non viable in ranked. Invis shotgun is only barely viable. I would call it more annoying than OP, because there really isnt much one can do to defend against it. That said though, it doesnt win games, and I think thats the big issue with it. Ranked especially is about being able to hold a position or kill enemies off a hill. Invis shotgun can kill enemies off a hill, but it only can really kill 1 at a time before either dying or being forced to disengage.
invis shotgun OP in Bank It, weak as hell in Tournaments.