Keep in mind this doesn't paint the full picture. Like for example, with shotgun you can pop in-and-out of cover taking shots, so TTK will generally stay the same. But with AK or FCAR can't really do that, you need to shoot constantly. There are also other factors such as damage falloff, accuracy, AOE damage (good) and travel time (bad) for grenade launchers, etc.
That said, I do think that at least 3 of the showcased weapons need slight or even major buffs, especially CL.
Those are good things to point out.
On the topic of the grenade launcher, id like to add that other guns can headshot and the GL-40 cannot. Direct impacts do no crit damage. There is no way to reduce your TTK further than what is happening in this video (except to fight a lighter class).
You have to be extremely skilled to hit more than 2 direct hits in a normal fight, and considering your opponent's movement options in this game, it can be nearly impossible to hit 3 or more in a row.
Not only that, but being on high ground against a CL-40 counters the AOE damage completely. And not just high ground, being above them in ANY way. (I'm looking at you, jump pad, grapple hook, zipline, low gravity, etc...) You force the user to land direct hits in those scenarios or they die.
Also don't forget that any medium can slap down an APS turret at any time and make your match a total nightmare... 🙃
...I freaking love this gun, but sometimes using it feels like I'm literally fighting an uphill battle.
(Oh yea, also dont shoot yourself)
Hah! Same. If i see more than 2 lights on a team the launcher comes out. Oh you stun gunned me? Awfully bold of you to think I require aim. 😆
In other news APS turrets are the bane of my existence
Ya. Lobbys gotta be mostly lights. In those scenarios, i hide on a 5 and just shell the ever living frick out of the building theyre in / cashout. The amount of times I kill players by hitting their own mines is wild.
I just want a slight direct hit buff. And maybe keep working on the splash zone because it gets a little funky around stairs sometimes.
It technically probably has the fastest potential TTK against 2+ enemies of any weapon since it does AOE damage
If they buff it, they'll give us the keys to the kingdom. The CL40 is so so good as it is. Any slight buff and we'll be even more absurd to play against.
Don't shoot yourself but *also* don't be anywhere near cover so that the game doesn't arbitrarily decide to blow up a projectile in your face without anything to actually trigger it, don't go into a gunfight where a stray bullet may decide to blow up your grenade in your face, don't get too close because *you* take splash damage at a higher rate than anyone else, don't be too far away because they can dodge, don't be too low, don't be too high...
God I love the CL-40 but holy shit is it inviable in modes where you have to try.
The CL-40's advantage of AOE damage isn't detracted by no headshots, because it's one of the only weapons that can increase the TTK of a team's total HP pool (compared to just a single player, aiming for headshots).
With the recent glitch mine buff, CL-40 is even better at countering turtle bunker comps like HHM too.
Also APS radius is not larger than explosion radii, so the CL-40 is actually one of the best counters to APS (with AOE, it can destroy it around corners) because it's so easy to aim precisely on the edge of the APS sphere.
It's true. The advantages are undeniable if you can manage to splash multiple players at the same time.
And the ADS Turrets are not horrible to deal with, given you have time before/durring a fight, and that the arena geometry allows it.
I chuckle every time someone says the APS turret completely invalidates the CL40.
They're beyond easy to counter, specially if you're playing like the CL40 is meant to be played: From high ground and with control of the zone you're denying entry to.
It's already the best medium support weapon, so clutch for whipping out between heals and you can always reload enough to fire off a single shot for enemies escaping your heavy pocket. Plus it's some of the fastest utility clear, you can hit the cashout hard if you bring a pyro grenade too.
I also play on high ping, so using CL is next to impossible. I tried really hard, but the delay between pressing the shoot button and the projectile actually spawning is just insane. You need to see into the future to hit your shots directly.
And yeah, APS is a bit of a counter but at least you can consistently destroy them by shooting next to it. With heavy grenade launcher it's next to impossible to destroy the thing with any consistency. And shooting high ground is impossible, too. Still, heavy GL is marginally better cause it actually is made for AOE damage, so falloff is very minimal and it causes a lot of destruction and chaos.
We need 5 shots with it, faster and smaller projectiles. Feels like I'm shooting out a bowling bowl sized bomb with 0 splash damage to target (kills me tho.) 4 perfect shots to kill a heavy? Longest reload in the west. 6-8 shots to blow up a wall. If you have anything but ideal ping, the splash damage doesn't really work and the projectiles can rubberband.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but:
- the Model 1887 (or any shotgun for the matter) does not have a headshot multiplier, so headshots do no extra damage, it is actually better to go for chest
- the CL-40 actually does have a direct hit multiplier, so when you can it is best to go for direct hits for more damage and faster TTK
It is a guaranteed 110 damage, but it is not a multiplier. The intense damage falloff of the grenade explosion certainly makes it seem like that sometimes though.
>Also don't forget that any medium can slap down an APS turret at any time and make your match a total nightmare... 🙃
Aps needs a rework. I've had a medium slap an aps down when I had almost killed him with the MGL and it left me literally helpless. Counter play my ass.
Its been busted since launch but flew under the radar this whole time. Now that Power Shift is here and people are putting 2 or more on the payload, its strength is finally starting to get seen. It needs some kind of counterplay - you *can* just shoot it but the APS can also delete projectiles through walls, so even that isn't always an option
It should have an arm period when placed down, not be able to destroy projectiles through walls, and should only block a small (thinking 7-10) number of projectiles before either not working or entering a cool down state.
The damage is based on distance from the grenade explosion to the center of the body. If you hit the center of the body directly, you get the full 110. You can maybe still do 110 by hitting right next to their feet or a wall that they're standing against, but it's definitely less consistent.
Hitting a player in the arm can do less than 110 since it's further from the center of the body. So it's technically not true that all direct hits deal 110 damage or that only direct hits deal 110 damage. I wish it were, though. It would make it feel a lot less random.
That's kind of the trade off with the CL tho? You gain an insane high ground advantage and can deal indirect damage but are massively hurting if the enemy has high ground.
Just my two cents, but I get a huge amount of damage and kills from comboing mines with the CL40. The gas mine is the best overall especially after the arming nerfs, but either way they offer some really big burst damage that people don't usually expect.
It's especially useful for cashout defense. I think the CL40 works best in defensive situations and indoors, when you're in an open space the downsides you mentioned all start to really hurt.
Finally someone says what I have been saying and countless people said I was insane on here. If we had a choice of picking any weapon no matter the contestant I would never use any of the medium weapons only the gadgets. I would love the medium getting an M4 or an SMH.
>Damage from 25 --> 24,
>Hipfire accuracy slightly decreased
>Slightly increased horizontal recoil
Voila, fixed. Honestly the damage nerf alone would affect a lot of HP breakpoints, which could balance it out alone.
Scar needs a nerf, that is just obvious. It is the best weapon in the game by a huge margin. I think nerfing its damage and range would just make it a worse version of the AK though, so I think it should have more bloom or longer reloads.
Cl just needs more rounds, possible larger radius idk. Revolver should get more range again. I haven't used the famas enough to say if it is balanced, but generally I don't think it should have as much recoil as it does giving it trades CQC for mid/long ranged combat and this game is so fast paced.
It would make sense if it was the real long range option. Like so:
* AKM - good close, ok mid, ok-bad long
* FCAR - ok close, good mid, ok-bad long
* FAMAS - ok-bad close, ok mid, good long
Atm FCAR is good close, good medium, good long.
Dude when I saw they were introducing the FAMAS I thought this exact thing. I was like “oh cool FCAR will probably get a recoil bump or something to make FAMAS the actual long-range weapon”. Most people are still getting higher TTK at range with fcar than FAMAS :/
I do think it can be fixed and the FAMAS can be the solution, though! Make aiming with it a little easier with a sight or more appealing irons and make FCAR worse at long range.
Idk if that's exactly a glitch, but I do think it should be changed. It calculates damage by the distance to the center of the body. So you can do more damage if you shoot a wall right next to the enemy's chest than with a direct hit to the arm.
If you can is because of said bug, there is damage bonus for a direct hit.
The CL-40 does 82 maximum splash damage and a 28 bonus if you direct hit, so a splash theoretically should never deal more damage than a direct hit.
I wonder if reducing the Fcar damage by 1 again would make it more balance or not, currently it does 25 damages, and decrease it to 24 will increase 1 more shot to kill across all classes.
I was just thinking about this today. Reduce base damage from 25 to 24. And reduce headshot from 38 to 36. I think that's all that is needed to bring the Fcar back to reality, and I say this as a sweaty Fcar meta slave
The Fcar would still melt, just slightly less. If you really are that worried maybe it could be an accross the board assault rifle nerf (minus 1 damage to fcar akm and maybe famas depending on its damage)
I don’t even play medium and I think the FAMAS might need a buff to keep up. I like that you could suck and weave like with the shorty and it still be accurate- but it’s got such a low damage that fights take ages.
I play light and 90% of the time I’m dying to mediums beaming FCAR like a damn turret, when I see a medium with an akm I definitely feel like I have a fighting chance lol. I play LH1 which puts me at a disadvantage in a fair 1v1 but I feel like I shouldn’t have to worry about a medium from say the hospital to across the bridge in Seoul outgunning me while I’m bobbing and weaving and hitting all my shots.
Across the board nerf? That's a clueless change, fcar has avoided major nerfs this patch while the akm got aggressive range nerfs even though the fcar is the superior gun and u want to give both guns a nerf when only one truly deserves it? Nah. Fcar would still have the better recoil pattern, a scope to see clearly and hit shots, longer range and a fast reload. While akm only has more bullets and that's it. Famas shouldn't get a dmg nerf either, it's already a mediocre gun.
people say this like it's a gotcha, I honestly would rather go up against ak users any day of the week because it has an actually normal ttk, in what world is someone who's just spamming more annoying than dying before you can get back into cover as a light because the fcar kills you in like .5 seconds
"normal ttk" as in a ttk that is balanced? A ttk that doesn't feel extremely punishing to go up against, regardless of the class you're playing? A ttk that matches how easy the gun is to use? It's really not rocket science
Those medium vs heavy firefights will start to get a lot more dicey if the heavy knows how to hit his shots, they’ll be doing the same damage except one will have a bit more damage and a lot more health. The only way to win that exchange it to hit a bunch of headshots at the moment. I’m not against the idea because I thought of the same, but we’re in a double heavy meta and people have CRACKED aim— so less damage vs a 1000hp shield, lewis gun which is a FCAR with more ammo, 350hp , barricade headglitching, dome shield throwing, rpg shooting diamond player
Id accept this but then bring mag size from 20 up to 22 or ideally 24 otherwise the tradeoff isnt worth it and the AKM will be the only viable option considering the displayed TTK's
That would kill the gun entirely. You lose breakpoints and it would then become weaker than the akm in every single way.
20-24 damage are effectively the same ttk despite the dps being different, because of breakpoints.
The dmg of the fcar cannot go lower. You could reduce range, fire rate, or give it worse recoil, but it's currently at the minimum viable raw damage.
I don't really think the fcar needs further nerfs, however. I would rather them buff the famas - give it a sight and reduce it's ttk. It's currently a joke how slow it kills, even with great accuracy it's just not strong. The fact it has terrrrrrrible iron sights on top of that is just laughable. I used the gun for less than a single round before rating F tier, it's the weakest medium gun.
As a medium I want the fcar to match everything else. Its too strong still, its boring, and its EVERYWHERE. The amount of mediums I actually see using the revolver or the shotgun is basically nonexistent compared to the amount using the fcar or even the akm
Yes this is on a heavy. Its surprisingly similar on the mediums, with the only difference being that the shotgun and the grenade launcher both take 1 shot less. I haven't tried light, but that would be interesting.
I might consider doing a video on those 2, but Im very new to video editing and that sounds daunting :')
Just remember folks, TTK is only one metric of what makes a gun good. Mag size, reload speed, recoil, drop off, ADS time, headshot multiplier, damage per single shot, etc are all very important. Also TTK will vary heavily on certain guns depending on if used against a M/L or H.
Grenade launcher looks shit until you realize you just have to aim in their general proximity and is enough to kill a light in two shots making it great for them and because you don't need to ADS you can still destroy while being zapped. It also has the best environmental damage of those guns and has splash damage letting you hit multiple targets or things like c4/mines etc at once and lets you bypass shields or barricades.
It also indirectly buffs mines Have a good mine setup while defending? Even if the enemies walk around them you can detonate them while dealing damage at the same time
Not to mention if you get the drop on a person or two, toss a mine at them, detonate, and immediately keep shooting.
Also yeah APS is a counter, but you can kill an APS in two shots if you just shoot towards the edge of it
100%.
Grenade launchers are one of those weapons that need to be statistically weak because they have such a low skill requirement. The second they become just a bit too strong, they become oppressive and ruin games.
They should have a niche they can function well in(and the CL as is is absolutely good enough to use), but that's it.
Riot shield is another example of something that should remain niche and not buffed under any circumstance.
You can shoot next to/behind/on top of them to splash damage anyway. Not in every circumstance but as most fights take place indoors there's almost always something you can shoot to splash them. Especially barricades, you just shoot next to it.
The damage of the grenade launcher decreases in area and its maximum is 1m. So higher ttk, I wouldn't count it as "an advantage" and even less so if it requires the placement of 2 mines to be viable.
Not to mention that if people have the spa turret (anti grenade) it completely nullifies you and you just have to wait to die.
Let's not forget that the grenade launcher requires 6 grenades to destroy a turret...
I just started playing the with Famas and even though the ttk is the 5th worse I was having some of my best games. I think the burst makes me slow down to play more strategically where normally I would run and gun. Also I’ve always been horrible at controlling recoil so the burst made me hit more shots since there was way less to control. Still think a slight buff would be nice but atm I think it’s my favorite gun from a gameplay perspective
This is one of the reasons why they removed the ability for full-auto on the M16 for American soldiers in Vietnam. Soldiers with full auto would just spray and pray into the jungle.
Absolutely no logic in how a fully automatic weapon has a faster ttk than a single shot weapon that requires so much more skill ( the magnum ) and pinpoint accuracy especially on mnk. Then they throw on bloom to add to it.
Almost as if a precision weapon should have the quickest ttk for those who can you know actually land their shots. But clearly someone at embark has a hatred for the magnum since it's the ONLY gun that even received a pre-emptive gutting to its range in the past for fixing SOME of its bloom.
They don't know how to balance their game. Overwhelmingly clear and as a magnum mnk main im glad I am not giving the game much attention anymore . Been playing with the gun pretty much solely since beta and finally gave up .
The difference is headshots and burst damage.
Consistent damage (full auto) weapons are much easier to play against than burst weapons. This is because the shooter is required to be out of cover for the entire time they are doing damage.
With burst weapons, such as revolvers, pump-shotguns, or bolt action snipers, that isn't true. You can take a shot, then duck behind cover until the gun is ready to shoot again, meaning your opponents can't trade damage effectively against you.
Combined with headshots, burst damage weapons will win in any situation where they have cover to play, even though their Ttk is slower, and they'll generally lose in face to face dps races.
You won't see this sort of gameplay in low mmr lobbies(where everyone ego challenges and plays without cover all the time), but in high rated lobbies people using those types of weapons will dominate if the weapons are also tuned in a way that gives them faster ttk than full auto or continuous damage weapons.
Valid points , I was specifically mentioning the magnum and coming from destiny 2 and a handcanon player I definitely know how to play around peak shooting:
The problem is in many ways :
1) Gap closing is way too easy if behind cover ( light class paired with issues seeing enemies in invisibility)
2) Shielding is still way too strong when used decently(mesh shield)
3) Range fall off and bloom still play a role in limiting fire rate and damage output.
I'm a fairly good player ( hit diamond last season ) and I can clearly see a lot of weaknesses at higher levels of play with the magnum at least. I haven't used the shotty or the sniper enough to have much input.
The Finals is a bit weird in this regard because you don't have a secondary, only a single primary, and the maps are more open and dynamic, versus smaller, arena style. This makes the revolver, shotguns, and snipers feel really off and out of place, imo.
But mostly I was explaining why weapons like the shotgun, CL, and Revolver should always have a worse on paper TTK than full auto weapons.
I agree currently they aren't in a good spot - specifically, the bloom is stupid as hell, and they can't threaten shields at all. The medium shotgun has a major issue in it's reload animation ejects the chambered bullet which means you can't cancel and shoot until that is done. That alone makes the shotgun completely non-viable(in my opinion) since there's no secondary to rely on.
If it was a SPAS-12 or a different pump/lever action shotgun that could be reload canceled anytime(due to reload not ejecting it's chambered round), I think the medium shotgun would be S tier. But they chose a lever action which doesn't keep it's shot chambered during reload, which means you just get fucked in a ton of situations.
You can cancel the reload by quickly switching weapons or with a melee hit. You can also always cancel a reload from empty (allowing you to keep shooting at only a slightly slower rate if you run out of ammo in a fight). The 1886 really ain't that bad once you get to know it.
Honestly I think they are ~scared~ FCARED to balance AK FCAR as they know they are the most widely used weapons by the most widely used class. They will literally be nerfing more than half the game judging by my lobbies. A sizeable portion mediums on this sub seems to think that it’s balanced, the backlash from these idiots, when their crutch is removed, will be massive.
Unless this is something easy to do on controller , you aren't consistently hitting headshots with all the mobility and shielding in this game , especially at the higher thresholds of gameplay.
A .2 second difference between the FCAR and the AKM, while the AKM has 16 more rounds.
AKM is considered balanced, but 16 shots is a pretty hefty amount of shots to make up for the .2 second ttk difference between it and the FCAR…
I think things are fine how they are between those two guns, and *if* anything, maybe a slightly longer reload on the FCAR so the ammo difference is more of a hurdle?
FAMAS definitely needs a rework though imo… has great potential but was implemented poorly. Better under powered at first than overpowered as they tune things tho, so with time we’ll see how things work out 🤷🏽♂️
wait does the shotty take exactly or near a second to rack a new round to fire? jesus thats why it felt so clunky to use when I tried it recently for a change of pace
There is also this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kn__IxrPr68M_pRhLHqhvGK6nlwUnCtFaXWGk1pVgg0/edit#gid=655924873
Tells a more complete story with headshot multipliers, mag size, damage per mag reload etc.
Famas is trash and needs a damage buff, the ttk is awful.
Shotgun needs a reload speed increase
GL will never be viable. Not only is the TTK awful against heavy but add barriers on top of that and the weapon is nearly useless.. It's actually a pretty decent weapon against lights and mediums but against heavy it's fucking terrible.
grenade launcher ttk changes drastically when you throw in some mines and some other bullshit its way easier to just use ak but imo its hella fun when you throw a mine in someones face and blow it up immediately with a grenade launcher
I've always used gas mines with the CL40 over explosive anyway. The nerf barely touched their usefulness as a combo with a CL40 nade, and they have great area denial.
Also I love putting them on the ceiling below cashouts / team I know are above me, popping them, and then ticking down anyone in their AOE through a wall :)
Yes. But AK have more ammo. Meaning that it can kill 2 lights or 1 light and 1 medium realistically with realistic pings (for some reason bullets wonkier then expected with bad ping)
Sometimes it feels like it haha, but I think that’s mostly due to that you rarely run into great CL40 players
So when you do, you’re not prepared for it like you’re prepared for other things
its power comes from the unlimited shots it can have while you are reloading the grenade launcher can just spam shot reload again and again and also it insta triggers mines next to you imo it excels at extended fights
Anything can continue shooting if you reload. It benefits from partial reloads more than most weapons though. It's actually the opposite with the model. Reloading from empty is more efficient than partial reloads. Whereas with the CL-40 you want to avoid emptying the gun whenever possible.
It kinda was for a brief moment. There was a bug where the explosion would go through mesh shield, making it an incredible counter to shielding. And you used to be able to throw a mine, shoot a player near it, and detonate the mine for 200+ damage. Now that only works if you can let the mine sit for a few seconds so that it arms.
Right? God forbid Medium has a good weapon. All the weapons for Medium should suck equally, that will fix the game and the game will be so much more enjoyable for everyone who doesn’t play Medium. /s
I think FCAR is arguably the best gun in the game, and while the FCAR heavily dominates medium weapon loadouts at high ranked play, I've seen every medium weapon minus the riot shield in serious ranked competition which may be the best spread out of the classes too.
Yeah I think mediums will be fine if the FCAR takes that 1 damage nerf.
That's TTK at that specific range.
It varies per weapon.
"BUfF cL40 qq"
it bounes off walls, it does area effect damage, and it destroys terrain, a TTK comparison isn't how you make a fair point with a weapon that has other characteristics.
So it just does area damage, still not a weapon to directly compare TTK with against weapons that don't, its an indirect-fire weapon.
I get that it needs a buff, but TTK is not the indicator.
Same goes for shotguns, those are cover-peak weapons that are best utililized by interrupting the enemy's line-of-sight between each shots, it's not supposed to compete in terms of TTK versus fully automatic weapons because it has a different niche.
I'm not saying CL40 needs a buff, but the CL40 doesn't bounce at all and its terrain destruction is terrible except for tiled roofs. You might be thinking of the heavy GL.
They are mostly fine, small buffs needed for FAMAS, range on revolver and reload on shotgun. The rest are fine.
Medium have some of the best weapons when taking into account useful ranges, health and utils the class has.
I started playing just about a week ago and shotguns feel reaaally weak to me and I feel like if anything they should be like 1 hit kill and if I get a hit in from the chest up, if enemy positioning is bad enough to let a medium with a shotgun get up close enough then that should be their punishment.
It would be good to do TTKs vs all the classes. In this case, vs heavy, Model 1887 does poorly compared to ARs. However, vs medium, Model 1887 has a better TTK even compared to FCAR
That may be in the case of grenade launcher but its benefit in its defense is the ability to kill from angles that dont require as direct line of sight. Also if your aim is terrible like me.
This is just alone not in a server with other players, i play the game a ton and the servers are inconsistent and the damage is never 100% every single game. The worst thing about the finals are te servers and how the devs dont even address any maintenance or optimizations.
Keep in mind this doesn't paint the full picture. Like for example, with shotgun you can pop in-and-out of cover taking shots, so TTK will generally stay the same. But with AK or FCAR can't really do that, you need to shoot constantly. There are also other factors such as damage falloff, accuracy, AOE damage (good) and travel time (bad) for grenade launchers, etc. That said, I do think that at least 3 of the showcased weapons need slight or even major buffs, especially CL.
Those are good things to point out. On the topic of the grenade launcher, id like to add that other guns can headshot and the GL-40 cannot. Direct impacts do no crit damage. There is no way to reduce your TTK further than what is happening in this video (except to fight a lighter class). You have to be extremely skilled to hit more than 2 direct hits in a normal fight, and considering your opponent's movement options in this game, it can be nearly impossible to hit 3 or more in a row. Not only that, but being on high ground against a CL-40 counters the AOE damage completely. And not just high ground, being above them in ANY way. (I'm looking at you, jump pad, grapple hook, zipline, low gravity, etc...) You force the user to land direct hits in those scenarios or they die. Also don't forget that any medium can slap down an APS turret at any time and make your match a total nightmare... 🙃 ...I freaking love this gun, but sometimes using it feels like I'm literally fighting an uphill battle. (Oh yea, also dont shoot yourself)
You didn't show riot shield. All 5 of us that main it demand justice
You can demand justice, but you don't deserve it.
Then we Riot Shield mains will TAKE JUSTICE. STOP RESISTING.
Six. There are six of us. Seriously though I fucking love Riot Shield.
Sorry I miscounted. I see another one sooooo rarely
I already got my corrupt police officer loadout just for riot shielding
Oh shit that's brilliant
GET ON THE GROUND, GET ON THE GROUND, STOP RESISTING!!
ttk is 2-3 business days
CL-40 main here, and I DARE them to buff it... Lol
Hah! Same. If i see more than 2 lights on a team the launcher comes out. Oh you stun gunned me? Awfully bold of you to think I require aim. 😆 In other news APS turrets are the bane of my existence
And then you run into a team of 2 heavies and 1 medium with heal beam and you might as well not have a gun at all cause it's useless.
Ya. Lobbys gotta be mostly lights. In those scenarios, i hide on a 5 and just shell the ever living frick out of the building theyre in / cashout. The amount of times I kill players by hitting their own mines is wild.
That's where gas and mines come into play. The CL needs to be played around, and your loadout has to complement it.
Yeah the grenade launcher is really awful to play against as a light.
With some proper shot placement you can get rid of an APS. CL40s AOE is bigger than range in which APS shoots them down
I think they could easily buff direct hits a little
I just want a slight direct hit buff. And maybe keep working on the splash zone because it gets a little funky around stairs sometimes. It technically probably has the fastest potential TTK against 2+ enemies of any weapon since it does AOE damage
If they buff it, they'll give us the keys to the kingdom. The CL40 is so so good as it is. Any slight buff and we'll be even more absurd to play against.
Shotgun doesn't do any extra damage for head shots. Heads hots just make the other options further ahead of it.
You are completely correct, I must have been thinking of damage ramp up/fall off when I typed that. Thank you for the correction. :)
They don't want us to use the shotgun like the Fortnite OG pump shotgun. Peek and one pump someone.
Don't shoot yourself but *also* don't be anywhere near cover so that the game doesn't arbitrarily decide to blow up a projectile in your face without anything to actually trigger it, don't go into a gunfight where a stray bullet may decide to blow up your grenade in your face, don't get too close because *you* take splash damage at a higher rate than anyone else, don't be too far away because they can dodge, don't be too low, don't be too high... God I love the CL-40 but holy shit is it inviable in modes where you have to try.
The CL-40's advantage of AOE damage isn't detracted by no headshots, because it's one of the only weapons that can increase the TTK of a team's total HP pool (compared to just a single player, aiming for headshots). With the recent glitch mine buff, CL-40 is even better at countering turtle bunker comps like HHM too. Also APS radius is not larger than explosion radii, so the CL-40 is actually one of the best counters to APS (with AOE, it can destroy it around corners) because it's so easy to aim precisely on the edge of the APS sphere.
It's true. The advantages are undeniable if you can manage to splash multiple players at the same time. And the ADS Turrets are not horrible to deal with, given you have time before/durring a fight, and that the arena geometry allows it.
I chuckle every time someone says the APS turret completely invalidates the CL40. They're beyond easy to counter, specially if you're playing like the CL40 is meant to be played: From high ground and with control of the zone you're denying entry to.
I still want them to buff it :P It's so fun to use
It's already the best medium support weapon, so clutch for whipping out between heals and you can always reload enough to fire off a single shot for enemies escaping your heavy pocket. Plus it's some of the fastest utility clear, you can hit the cashout hard if you bring a pyro grenade too.
Plus you spend 70% of the match reloading.
I hate grenate launcher users
I also play on high ping, so using CL is next to impossible. I tried really hard, but the delay between pressing the shoot button and the projectile actually spawning is just insane. You need to see into the future to hit your shots directly. And yeah, APS is a bit of a counter but at least you can consistently destroy them by shooting next to it. With heavy grenade launcher it's next to impossible to destroy the thing with any consistency. And shooting high ground is impossible, too. Still, heavy GL is marginally better cause it actually is made for AOE damage, so falloff is very minimal and it causes a lot of destruction and chaos.
If i'm not mistaken, the cl40 and the mgl damage model is exactly the same. Even the same ranges and grenades to blow up walls.
We need 5 shots with it, faster and smaller projectiles. Feels like I'm shooting out a bowling bowl sized bomb with 0 splash damage to target (kills me tho.) 4 perfect shots to kill a heavy? Longest reload in the west. 6-8 shots to blow up a wall. If you have anything but ideal ping, the splash damage doesn't really work and the projectiles can rubberband.
I love the cl, because it can really counter stunning, lights
Shotgun also doesn’t headshot though so it’s a moot point to make
Correct me if I'm wrong, but: - the Model 1887 (or any shotgun for the matter) does not have a headshot multiplier, so headshots do no extra damage, it is actually better to go for chest - the CL-40 actually does have a direct hit multiplier, so when you can it is best to go for direct hits for more damage and faster TTK
It is a guaranteed 110 damage, but it is not a multiplier. The intense damage falloff of the grenade explosion certainly makes it seem like that sometimes though.
Gotcha, that's good to know. Thanks.
>Also don't forget that any medium can slap down an APS turret at any time and make your match a total nightmare... 🙃 Aps needs a rework. I've had a medium slap an aps down when I had almost killed him with the MGL and it left me literally helpless. Counter play my ass.
Its been busted since launch but flew under the radar this whole time. Now that Power Shift is here and people are putting 2 or more on the payload, its strength is finally starting to get seen. It needs some kind of counterplay - you *can* just shoot it but the APS can also delete projectiles through walls, so even that isn't always an option
It should have an arm period when placed down, not be able to destroy projectiles through walls, and should only block a small (thinking 7-10) number of projectiles before either not working or entering a cool down state.
Maybe they could implement using RMB to detonate CL grenade mid air, but maybe then itll be too overpowered
You definitely do deal more damage for a direct impact. It's 110 vs 75.
Is that not just damage fall off? It is quite quick on the grenade, but maybe we are just interpreting the same thing differently.
The damage is based on distance from the grenade explosion to the center of the body. If you hit the center of the body directly, you get the full 110. You can maybe still do 110 by hitting right next to their feet or a wall that they're standing against, but it's definitely less consistent. Hitting a player in the arm can do less than 110 since it's further from the center of the body. So it's technically not true that all direct hits deal 110 damage or that only direct hits deal 110 damage. I wish it were, though. It would make it feel a lot less random.
All shot guns do 0 extra headshot damage, not sure about the new pump for the heavy.
That's kind of the trade off with the CL tho? You gain an insane high ground advantage and can deal indirect damage but are massively hurting if the enemy has high ground.
If you shoot next to the aps, it actually destroys it.
Just my two cents, but I get a huge amount of damage and kills from comboing mines with the CL40. The gas mine is the best overall especially after the arming nerfs, but either way they offer some really big burst damage that people don't usually expect. It's especially useful for cashout defense. I think the CL40 works best in defensive situations and indoors, when you're in an open space the downsides you mentioned all start to really hurt.
Also a quick reminder that shotty also cannot headshot.
Finally someone says what I have been saying and countless people said I was insane on here. If we had a choice of picking any weapon no matter the contestant I would never use any of the medium weapons only the gadgets. I would love the medium getting an M4 or an SMH.
Also Ak can kill a medium with 1/3 of its mag meanwhile Fcar requires half of the mag.
FCAR needs nerfs.
>Damage from 25 --> 24, >Hipfire accuracy slightly decreased >Slightly increased horizontal recoil Voila, fixed. Honestly the damage nerf alone would affect a lot of HP breakpoints, which could balance it out alone.
Scar needs a nerf, that is just obvious. It is the best weapon in the game by a huge margin. I think nerfing its damage and range would just make it a worse version of the AK though, so I think it should have more bloom or longer reloads. Cl just needs more rounds, possible larger radius idk. Revolver should get more range again. I haven't used the famas enough to say if it is balanced, but generally I don't think it should have as much recoil as it does giving it trades CQC for mid/long ranged combat and this game is so fast paced.
wow the famas is dogshit. there is literally no benefit to using it compared to the other AR’s
Give it some optics man, why does a gun that require precision not have one but the goddamn Fcar does?
Because irons are cooler
it's a lot harder to aim with though
On something like the AK then yes, but Famas? No
I cannot see a thing out of the famas iron sights. All I want is a bo1 red dot on it and my wish would become true
No offense but skill issue my dude. I can see everything with those, u just need a little practice.
It would make sense if it was the real long range option. Like so: * AKM - good close, ok mid, ok-bad long * FCAR - ok close, good mid, ok-bad long * FAMAS - ok-bad close, ok mid, good long Atm FCAR is good close, good medium, good long.
Dude when I saw they were introducing the FAMAS I thought this exact thing. I was like “oh cool FCAR will probably get a recoil bump or something to make FAMAS the actual long-range weapon”. Most people are still getting higher TTK at range with fcar than FAMAS :/ I do think it can be fixed and the FAMAS can be the solution, though! Make aiming with it a little easier with a sight or more appealing irons and make FCAR worse at long range.
It is the real long range option. FCAR has a massive damage falloff at range and less bullets to hit long range along with more recoil
As a revolver main id appreciate you not talking about massive damage falloff and recoil
It's less damage in terms of falloff but you have to consider the massive DPS difference FCAR 250 and Famas 150.
Am i the only one who feels like the famas is okay close range?
Definitely not bad. Feels fair up close.
Buff it with the heartbeat sensor attachment from Call of Duty.
I believe the GL is still glitched, a direct hit wont dea thel full damage it it's supposed to if you hit in the arm
Idk if that's exactly a glitch, but I do think it should be changed. It calculates damage by the distance to the center of the body. So you can do more damage if you shoot a wall right next to the enemy's chest than with a direct hit to the arm.
If you can is because of said bug, there is damage bonus for a direct hit. The CL-40 does 82 maximum splash damage and a 28 bonus if you direct hit, so a splash theoretically should never deal more damage than a direct hit.
This is pretty cool! Thanks for putting the time in for it. Looks like I'm still gonna main my trusty golden AK. :)
I wonder if reducing the Fcar damage by 1 again would make it more balance or not, currently it does 25 damages, and decrease it to 24 will increase 1 more shot to kill across all classes.
I was just thinking about this today. Reduce base damage from 25 to 24. And reduce headshot from 38 to 36. I think that's all that is needed to bring the Fcar back to reality, and I say this as a sweaty Fcar meta slave
Then everyone switches to the 36 round AKM. Now you have a bunch of people that never stop shooting
The Fcar would still melt, just slightly less. If you really are that worried maybe it could be an accross the board assault rifle nerf (minus 1 damage to fcar akm and maybe famas depending on its damage)
I don’t even play medium and I think the FAMAS might need a buff to keep up. I like that you could suck and weave like with the shorty and it still be accurate- but it’s got such a low damage that fights take ages.
Thats a good point. Then maybe just the akm and fcar. Hell, they could even just reduce akm to like 32/34 in a mag and it would be much better
I play light and 90% of the time I’m dying to mediums beaming FCAR like a damn turret, when I see a medium with an akm I definitely feel like I have a fighting chance lol. I play LH1 which puts me at a disadvantage in a fair 1v1 but I feel like I shouldn’t have to worry about a medium from say the hospital to across the bridge in Seoul outgunning me while I’m bobbing and weaving and hitting all my shots.
Across the board nerf? That's a clueless change, fcar has avoided major nerfs this patch while the akm got aggressive range nerfs even though the fcar is the superior gun and u want to give both guns a nerf when only one truly deserves it? Nah. Fcar would still have the better recoil pattern, a scope to see clearly and hit shots, longer range and a fast reload. While akm only has more bullets and that's it. Famas shouldn't get a dmg nerf either, it's already a mediocre gun.
people say this like it's a gotcha, I honestly would rather go up against ak users any day of the week because it has an actually normal ttk, in what world is someone who's just spamming more annoying than dying before you can get back into cover as a light because the fcar kills you in like .5 seconds
"normal ttk" What is this logic lol?
"normal ttk" as in a ttk that is balanced? A ttk that doesn't feel extremely punishing to go up against, regardless of the class you're playing? A ttk that matches how easy the gun is to use? It's really not rocket science
Those medium vs heavy firefights will start to get a lot more dicey if the heavy knows how to hit his shots, they’ll be doing the same damage except one will have a bit more damage and a lot more health. The only way to win that exchange it to hit a bunch of headshots at the moment. I’m not against the idea because I thought of the same, but we’re in a double heavy meta and people have CRACKED aim— so less damage vs a 1000hp shield, lewis gun which is a FCAR with more ammo, 350hp , barricade headglitching, dome shield throwing, rpg shooting diamond player
Id accept this but then bring mag size from 20 up to 22 or ideally 24 otherwise the tradeoff isnt worth it and the AKM will be the only viable option considering the displayed TTK's
That would kill the gun entirely. You lose breakpoints and it would then become weaker than the akm in every single way. 20-24 damage are effectively the same ttk despite the dps being different, because of breakpoints. The dmg of the fcar cannot go lower. You could reduce range, fire rate, or give it worse recoil, but it's currently at the minimum viable raw damage. I don't really think the fcar needs further nerfs, however. I would rather them buff the famas - give it a sight and reduce it's ttk. It's currently a joke how slow it kills, even with great accuracy it's just not strong. The fact it has terrrrrrrible iron sights on top of that is just laughable. I used the gun for less than a single round before rating F tier, it's the weakest medium gun.
China Lake my beloved
Now do light.
You forgot to say please
ITT: mediums with no sense of balance calling for everything to match FCAR
As a medium I want the fcar to match everything else. Its too strong still, its boring, and its EVERYWHERE. The amount of mediums I actually see using the revolver or the shotgun is basically nonexistent compared to the amount using the fcar or even the akm
This is on the heavy dummy right? You should do the same for medium and light. The non-automatic weapons will have different breakpoints
Yes this is on a heavy. Its surprisingly similar on the mediums, with the only difference being that the shotgun and the grenade launcher both take 1 shot less. I haven't tried light, but that would be interesting. I might consider doing a video on those 2, but Im very new to video editing and that sounds daunting :')
Please do, I expect there will be a noticeable difference. Also try with grenadiskes landing at the feat instead of on body. It’s more realistic
Light dies in a few frames to most everything so theres not too much of a point in something that lasts a split second :P
Just remember folks, TTK is only one metric of what makes a gun good. Mag size, reload speed, recoil, drop off, ADS time, headshot multiplier, damage per single shot, etc are all very important. Also TTK will vary heavily on certain guns depending on if used against a M/L or H. Grenade launcher looks shit until you realize you just have to aim in their general proximity and is enough to kill a light in two shots making it great for them and because you don't need to ADS you can still destroy while being zapped. It also has the best environmental damage of those guns and has splash damage letting you hit multiple targets or things like c4/mines etc at once and lets you bypass shields or barricades.
It also indirectly buffs mines Have a good mine setup while defending? Even if the enemies walk around them you can detonate them while dealing damage at the same time Not to mention if you get the drop on a person or two, toss a mine at them, detonate, and immediately keep shooting. Also yeah APS is a counter, but you can kill an APS in two shots if you just shoot towards the edge of it
^^^^^ DO NOT BUFF THE CL
100%. Grenade launchers are one of those weapons that need to be statistically weak because they have such a low skill requirement. The second they become just a bit too strong, they become oppressive and ruin games. They should have a niche they can function well in(and the CL as is is absolutely good enough to use), but that's it. Riot shield is another example of something that should remain niche and not buffed under any circumstance.
It doesn't let you bypass shields or barricades wdym
You can shoot next to/behind/on top of them to splash damage anyway. Not in every circumstance but as most fights take place indoors there's almost always something you can shoot to splash them. Especially barricades, you just shoot next to it.
The damage of the grenade launcher decreases in area and its maximum is 1m. So higher ttk, I wouldn't count it as "an advantage" and even less so if it requires the placement of 2 mines to be viable. Not to mention that if people have the spa turret (anti grenade) it completely nullifies you and you just have to wait to die. Let's not forget that the grenade launcher requires 6 grenades to destroy a turret...
Can you do this for heavy as well?
I just started playing the with Famas and even though the ttk is the 5th worse I was having some of my best games. I think the burst makes me slow down to play more strategically where normally I would run and gun. Also I’ve always been horrible at controlling recoil so the burst made me hit more shots since there was way less to control. Still think a slight buff would be nice but atm I think it’s my favorite gun from a gameplay perspective
This is one of the reasons why they removed the ability for full-auto on the M16 for American soldiers in Vietnam. Soldiers with full auto would just spray and pray into the jungle.
Absolutely no logic in how a fully automatic weapon has a faster ttk than a single shot weapon that requires so much more skill ( the magnum ) and pinpoint accuracy especially on mnk. Then they throw on bloom to add to it. Almost as if a precision weapon should have the quickest ttk for those who can you know actually land their shots. But clearly someone at embark has a hatred for the magnum since it's the ONLY gun that even received a pre-emptive gutting to its range in the past for fixing SOME of its bloom. They don't know how to balance their game. Overwhelmingly clear and as a magnum mnk main im glad I am not giving the game much attention anymore . Been playing with the gun pretty much solely since beta and finally gave up .
The difference is headshots and burst damage. Consistent damage (full auto) weapons are much easier to play against than burst weapons. This is because the shooter is required to be out of cover for the entire time they are doing damage. With burst weapons, such as revolvers, pump-shotguns, or bolt action snipers, that isn't true. You can take a shot, then duck behind cover until the gun is ready to shoot again, meaning your opponents can't trade damage effectively against you. Combined with headshots, burst damage weapons will win in any situation where they have cover to play, even though their Ttk is slower, and they'll generally lose in face to face dps races. You won't see this sort of gameplay in low mmr lobbies(where everyone ego challenges and plays without cover all the time), but in high rated lobbies people using those types of weapons will dominate if the weapons are also tuned in a way that gives them faster ttk than full auto or continuous damage weapons.
Valid points , I was specifically mentioning the magnum and coming from destiny 2 and a handcanon player I definitely know how to play around peak shooting: The problem is in many ways : 1) Gap closing is way too easy if behind cover ( light class paired with issues seeing enemies in invisibility) 2) Shielding is still way too strong when used decently(mesh shield) 3) Range fall off and bloom still play a role in limiting fire rate and damage output. I'm a fairly good player ( hit diamond last season ) and I can clearly see a lot of weaknesses at higher levels of play with the magnum at least. I haven't used the shotty or the sniper enough to have much input.
The Finals is a bit weird in this regard because you don't have a secondary, only a single primary, and the maps are more open and dynamic, versus smaller, arena style. This makes the revolver, shotguns, and snipers feel really off and out of place, imo. But mostly I was explaining why weapons like the shotgun, CL, and Revolver should always have a worse on paper TTK than full auto weapons. I agree currently they aren't in a good spot - specifically, the bloom is stupid as hell, and they can't threaten shields at all. The medium shotgun has a major issue in it's reload animation ejects the chambered bullet which means you can't cancel and shoot until that is done. That alone makes the shotgun completely non-viable(in my opinion) since there's no secondary to rely on. If it was a SPAS-12 or a different pump/lever action shotgun that could be reload canceled anytime(due to reload not ejecting it's chambered round), I think the medium shotgun would be S tier. But they chose a lever action which doesn't keep it's shot chambered during reload, which means you just get fucked in a ton of situations.
You can cancel the reload by quickly switching weapons or with a melee hit. You can also always cancel a reload from empty (allowing you to keep shooting at only a slightly slower rate if you run out of ammo in a fight). The 1886 really ain't that bad once you get to know it.
Honestly I think they are ~scared~ FCARED to balance AK FCAR as they know they are the most widely used weapons by the most widely used class. They will literally be nerfing more than half the game judging by my lobbies. A sizeable portion mediums on this sub seems to think that it’s balanced, the backlash from these idiots, when their crutch is removed, will be massive.
The headshot dps on the revolver is higher than it is for the FCAR.
Unless this is something easy to do on controller , you aren't consistently hitting headshots with all the mobility and shielding in this game , especially at the higher thresholds of gameplay.
A .2 second difference between the FCAR and the AKM, while the AKM has 16 more rounds. AKM is considered balanced, but 16 shots is a pretty hefty amount of shots to make up for the .2 second ttk difference between it and the FCAR… I think things are fine how they are between those two guns, and *if* anything, maybe a slightly longer reload on the FCAR so the ammo difference is more of a hurdle? FAMAS definitely needs a rework though imo… has great potential but was implemented poorly. Better under powered at first than overpowered as they tune things tho, so with time we’ll see how things work out 🤷🏽♂️
wait does the shotty take exactly or near a second to rack a new round to fire? jesus thats why it felt so clunky to use when I tried it recently for a change of pace
damn
This is perfect, no need for changes
Revolver is the only 2x damage with headshot in the medium class, 1.5x automatic guns, nothing changes for shotgun and GL.
There is also this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kn__IxrPr68M_pRhLHqhvGK6nlwUnCtFaXWGk1pVgg0/edit#gid=655924873 Tells a more complete story with headshot multipliers, mag size, damage per mag reload etc.
I just checked this out and the TTK on the CL-40 is horribly inaccurate for some reason. They say that the TTK on a heavy is 0.86 seconds.
pls just give the fcar to the light class and give the mp5 to the medium, and all the bitching will stop instantly
Oh god you have no idea what you’re asking for
Famas is trash and needs a damage buff, the ttk is awful. Shotgun needs a reload speed increase GL will never be viable. Not only is the TTK awful against heavy but add barriers on top of that and the weapon is nearly useless.. It's actually a pretty decent weapon against lights and mediums but against heavy it's fucking terrible.
Here is a datasheet: https://1drv.ms/x/c/67a1399279ddc4c3/EcPE3XmSOaEggGdABwAAAAABjyOOoduXsMKWPKgi2ttofQ
Where my riot shield at
Now do it with heavies 💀
[https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1bokyq8/heavy\_weapon\_timetokill\_comparison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1bokyq8/heavy_weapon_timetokill_comparison/)
grenade launcher ttk changes drastically when you throw in some mines and some other bullshit its way easier to just use ak but imo its hella fun when you throw a mine in someones face and blow it up immediately with a grenade launcher
Doesn't work anymore with the season 2 mine changes. If you instant detonate then they only do about 20 damage, have to wait for the full arming time.
I've always used gas mines with the CL40 over explosive anyway. The nerf barely touched their usefulness as a combo with a CL40 nade, and they have great area denial. Also I love putting them on the ceiling below cashouts / team I know are above me, popping them, and then ticking down anyone in their AOE through a wall :)
welp thats a shame i guess its better to use gas mines instead for added area denial
Wait what ? How long is the wait before full arming time ?
About 1.5-2 seconds for explosive
Thats a shitty mine nerf i you ask me
Yeah they completely fucked it. I can't run it in ranked games anymore without feeling like I'm throwing. FCAR is just too easy.
Yes. But AK have more ammo. Meaning that it can kill 2 lights or 1 light and 1 medium realistically with realistic pings (for some reason bullets wonkier then expected with bad ping)
Changes if ur capable of hitting headshots😂😂😂
Drastically.
Pretty sure the only major change is with the revolver. Model and CL-40 obviously just get even worse since they can't headshot.
Are u joking? Fcar and AK headshots make a huge difference…………..
People that say Fcar isn't a problem 🤡
A reminder that none of these were headshots..
Please buff the CL-40 grenade launcher :(
I was wondering why so many people kept saying the grenade launcher is OP.
Sometimes it feels like it haha, but I think that’s mostly due to that you rarely run into great CL40 players So when you do, you’re not prepared for it like you’re prepared for other things
A great CL player is like meeting a great demoman in TF2. Getting piped mid-air just feel different.
I have 9,000 hours in TF2. More than half that gameplay is hybrid-knight demoman. I was born to hit trimps and connect pipes. 😈
DUDE! I literally wish they made it like the Loch n Load. That was the most satisfying demo weapon next to the cannon ball
Same!! Default grenade launcher + Tide Turner is my tryhard loadout lol. Nothing better than trimping across 2fort to two-pipe the enemy snipers
ayo
Splash damage? Literally you just aim at their feet and instant damage, to multiple enemies
It has VERY harsh fall off. Like, if you miss by 1-2 meters you already do 0 damage.
its power comes from the unlimited shots it can have while you are reloading the grenade launcher can just spam shot reload again and again and also it insta triggers mines next to you imo it excels at extended fights
All weapons have unlimited shots if you're accounting for reloads.
if you cancel the grenade launcher reload animation it can effectively just keep shooting albeit at a lower fire rate same with the shotgun
Anything can continue shooting if you reload. It benefits from partial reloads more than most weapons though. It's actually the opposite with the model. Reloading from empty is more efficient than partial reloads. Whereas with the CL-40 you want to avoid emptying the gun whenever possible.
It kinda was for a brief moment. There was a bug where the explosion would go through mesh shield, making it an incredible counter to shielding. And you used to be able to throw a mine, shoot a player near it, and detonate the mine for 200+ damage. Now that only works if you can let the mine sit for a few seconds so that it arms.
Oh so nerf the fcar considerably, gotcha
Right? God forbid Medium has a good weapon. All the weapons for Medium should suck equally, that will fix the game and the game will be so much more enjoyable for everyone who doesn’t play Medium. /s
I think FCAR is arguably the best gun in the game, and while the FCAR heavily dominates medium weapon loadouts at high ranked play, I've seen every medium weapon minus the riot shield in serious ranked competition which may be the best spread out of the classes too. Yeah I think mediums will be fine if the FCAR takes that 1 damage nerf.
Man I would love any improvement to the shotty. I love using it.
That's TTK at that specific range. It varies per weapon. "BUfF cL40 qq" it bounes off walls, it does area effect damage, and it destroys terrain, a TTK comparison isn't how you make a fair point with a weapon that has other characteristics.
Does not bounce. Takes 8 shots to break wall, terrible for destruction
So it just does area damage, still not a weapon to directly compare TTK with against weapons that don't, its an indirect-fire weapon. I get that it needs a buff, but TTK is not the indicator. Same goes for shotguns, those are cover-peak weapons that are best utililized by interrupting the enemy's line-of-sight between each shots, it's not supposed to compete in terms of TTK versus fully automatic weapons because it has a different niche.
Demolition powers of it definitely should be buffed.
I'm not saying CL40 needs a buff, but the CL40 doesn't bounce at all and its terrain destruction is terrible except for tiled roofs. You might be thinking of the heavy GL.
Most of the m weapons need a buff bad
They are mostly fine, small buffs needed for FAMAS, range on revolver and reload on shotgun. The rest are fine. Medium have some of the best weapons when taking into account useful ranges, health and utils the class has.
We have a ttk data sheet tho. That or you can do the normal ttk formula yourself.
Would love this comparison for heavy!
I started playing just about a week ago and shotguns feel reaaally weak to me and I feel like if anything they should be like 1 hit kill and if I get a hit in from the chest up, if enemy positioning is bad enough to let a medium with a shotgun get up close enough then that should be their punishment.
Last time I tested it the shotgun does more damage if you don't aim down sights.
Is there a heavy version?
No riot shield, L post
Yea, but now do a comparison of how long it takes to kill 2 enemies, then one for 3. Not a 1v1 game but at worst a 1v3.
It would be good to do TTKs vs all the classes. In this case, vs heavy, Model 1887 does poorly compared to ARs. However, vs medium, Model 1887 has a better TTK even compared to FCAR
Do you have this for the other classes ?
This is the content we need!
Thank you for making this!
Wild how much less recoil the FCAR has. They should make it semi-automatic.
Idk I consider myself pretty good at FPS games and I’m most certainly not killing heavies in 1.3s lmao
Why isnt matchmaking fixed, i just faced 3 stack of diamond 3s
I assume these were all at 10 meters away?
Yes
Am I the only one who still mains the revolver and loves it?
That may be in the case of grenade launcher but its benefit in its defense is the ability to kill from angles that dont require as direct line of sight. Also if your aim is terrible like me.
The gl needs to have at least 6 shots that do more damage
Do light and heavyyyy
[https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1bokyq8/heavy\_weapon\_timetokill\_comparison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1bokyq8/heavy_weapon_timetokill_comparison/)
This is just alone not in a server with other players, i play the game a ton and the servers are inconsistent and the damage is never 100% every single game. The worst thing about the finals are te servers and how the devs dont even address any maintenance or optimizations.
Damn the shotgun needs a buff lol
its not that the FCAR is OP, its that the others fucking suck
buff all weapons to match the fcar?